<I think it makes sense to take how a system would affect you personally as some input for how much you approve or disapprove of it? I am also curious. It seems very inexplicable to me, but then again, Yeerks do not really have gender. We tend to absorb the concept from our first host, if they are of a species with different sexes.> 

Do Andalites have different sexes? What even was Mhalir's host before Alloran.

He's had a lot of hosts. The one immediately before Alloran was a Hork-Bajir, male, although Hork-Bajir gender roles are pretty sideways from human ones. He's had female hosts before but he thinks he thought of himself as vaguely male before Alloran? Though that's a long time ago now and it's not very salient to a Yeerk. 

Carissa mostly does not identify with her weaknesses as a person or with people who have similar weaknesses but she finds it upsetting how Garund and Casmaron treat women. 

They go back to the temple. The priest is a man in his 50s, with fancy golden robes. "Did you have specific questions?" he says. 

"What does Abadar care about?"

         "Prosperity and trade. And lots of things, but all of them things that create the conditions for prosperity and trade. Law allows men to buy and sell from strangers, trusting that their goods and money are legitimate. It allows men to put things on ships or on wagons and travel confident they will reach their destination without being robbed. It allows them to make long-term plans, expecting that their investments will not be brought to ruin by a capricious change in the law. It allows them to decide for themselves where their labor is best allocated. Trade does not require two men to agree on very much. They might have entirely different worldviews, priorities, likes and dislikes. They may in another context loathe each other. To trade, they need to only prefer to have what the other person has, and they can make an exchange and both be better off. The world is full of people very different from one another, and often they imagine that where they disagree, they must fight. But when the trust exists to instead trade, there can be peace no matter the magnitude of our differences."

That's actually very reasonable, Mhalir is thinking. It's almost what he's been drifting toward with Iomedae, because he doesn't trust Her that much, not enough to put weight on if he were modelling her help as...a purely altruistic act, offered because she's Good. But he can make it hold together in his head if he considers that they're making a trade: he has starships, She has god-magic and clerics and paladins, also it seems like they probably care about some of the same things but even if he's wrong he trusts Her to stick to a deal that's deeply in Her self-interest. Especially since ending the Yeerk-Andalite war is going to have to happen before anything else, so it's not like She can back out. 

...On the other hand, he might not have noticed it without Carissa's earlier complaints, but the fact that the cleric keeps saying 'men' instead of 'people' is very grating and he's tempted to ask 'well, what about us, a woman and a technically genderless slug alien' just to be difficult. He should not do this because the existence of Yeerks is still a closely-held secret, but he's sympathetic to Carissa's annoyance about the whole thing. 

"Why does Abadar rule Osirion, what does He get out of it."

             "He wants countries to adopt wise policies that increase prosperity. Here He can recommend their adoption and also more can be learned about which policies work best when men implement them."

"...does He sometimes not already know that?"

            "He knows what policies work best in theory, but let's say that no one in a city understands the value of something because they've never seen it used before, or that doing taxes a certain way encourages corruption, those are also facts about what works best and they're not knowable from theorizing, not reliably."

"Does He - collect the profits? Or just...prefer that they exist, no matter who has them."

           "He prefers they be allocated among those who created them as incentive to create more, or invested directly in the creation of more."

"Huh. Okay. ...why can't women in Osirion own property or start businesses."

          "They can, with the approval of the head of their household."

"Right, why can't they without that."

          "No one can, without the approval of the head of their household. It is the duty of the head of a family to decide how its money is allocated thoughtfully and carefully. In a typical family, a woman moves in with her husband and his parents, his brothers and his brother's wives when she marries him. Her husband's parents will make the decisions about the household's money. If they are farmers, her husband's father is a farmer with many decades of experience and the most qualified to make their decisions about what to plant and what insurance to buy and what other expenditures can be afforded. If they are merchants, he would have many decades of experience pricing and evaluating merchant ventures, and knows how much risk the family is at and what tends to succeed and fail. So it is his decision to make."

"And it's always a - him - what if the smartest person in the household is a woman and she's got decades of experience pricing and evaluating ventures -"

          "Then if the head of her household has any sense he will prize her advice very highly."

Carissa is immensely frustrated by this but can't quite think what the right next question is.

Mhalir is mostly confused by this. He doesn't want to talk through Carissa's mouth right now, he never quite sounds like her and he doesn't want to make the cleric wonder what's going on, but - 

<It seems - arbitrary? They have decided that the unit of ownership is the family, and the leader of the family is always the oldest male, rather than - elected, or something. It is not that surprising in itself, many cultures both human and not have this kind of grouping, and it is a coherent and likely quite stable setup, but it does not seem as though it emerges naturally from 'policies that increase prosperity'. And I imagine that in practice, even if the head of the household listens to a younger woman and profits from it, I doubt that she is generally allowed to keep those profits for herself, which would make the incentive muddier. Not to mention the fact that clever young girls would have little incentive to acquire such experience and judgement, not expecting to collect the profits the way a man would.> 

It's stupid but it's kind of imperviously stupid, she thinks back. It doesn't turn on a specific claim, it just - is -

"Does Abadar want it that way or was it that way before Abadar?"

          "I think Abadar has supported policies that makes it easier for young men to establish their own household, say if they move to the city, because labor mobility is good."

"Are women allowed to establish their own household?"

          "I would want to know more details of your situation - if you are a wizard, with the means to support yourself, there are various laws specific to that situation -"

"Say I'm not a wizard but I think I could be if I just get a good education, and I want to move to the city and do that."

         "...I would not expect that to be very feasible. I do not know where you would live while you studied. It is not safe or decent for women to live alone. It would - for an Osirian woman it would damage her prospects of marriage immensely."

"What if she didn't want to get married."

         "Teenagers often have unrealistic expectations about what will lead to a good life. Lots of people are lawless while they are young, but very happy eventually that they shaped up and made Axis. Of course no one marries against their will but if my daughter did not wish to marry I would warn her that she was making a grave mistake she would be paying for for the rest of eternity, and pray that she changed her mind."

<Are the Chaotic afterlives really so much worse than the Lawful ones> Mhalir asks Carissa, still not wanting to talk directly. <If one is holding Good or Neutral versus Evil constant, I mean. I would expect a god who is not Evil to care very much about their followers avoiding those afterlives, and less about Law, but I am not a god who has Law fundamentally baked into me as a value, so...> 

I'm not sure, she thinks back at him. Chelish propaganda is that Heaven is entirely for fighting Hell and Axis is fine but you still have to work all the time and it can't defend its borders, Hell's going to take it pretty soon. And that in the Maelstrom you're just a ghost watching a world you can't interact with or meaningfully alter, and in the Abyss you are a - grub thing - and usually get taken apart for your organs or something before you have time to turn into a demon, and Elysium is kind of just living in the wilderness until you die in a fight with a dragon or whatever.

"What are the sort of traits that Abadar looks for in clerics," she asks the man.

       "Fairness. Principledness. Hardworkingness. Integrity."

"If there were a war and the church was mediating what would you expect them to care about."

        "It being possible to build a sustainable peace. People understanding what Law is and being sincerely committed to the agreement and realistic about the odds of minor aggravations that they'll have the choice to escalate or deescalate. Trade, people are less likely to war in the future with people they trade with."

Did you have questions for him?

He's wondering whether Abadar's goals of prosperity and Lawfulness extend to countries other than Osirion and He's just focusing there for efficiency or something; in particular he's confused about how this interacts with countries where different gods are worshipped, do the gods have - territorial agreements or something, like human countries. If Abadar intervenes to help stop a war, is he going to want trade agreements with the relevant warring parties out of it, or input into how they run their economies...

"Does Abadar also want other countries to be prosperous and Lawful? Why is He focused in Osirion?"

       "The Church has temples in most countries. It requires additional resources to directly run a country like Osirion, I don't think He has the resources to do it everywhere. Also it is not obvious whether having a country directly run by the Church is much more valuable than having it just have a strong healthy church that wields a typical amount of political power, this is an experiment to determine that."

"Do the gods - agree not to step on each other's turf or something -"

       "There are agreements among many of the gods. The details of them are hard to convey to humans the same way the details of agreements among human kings are hard to convey to small children. In broad strokes, Abadar is allied with Asmodeus and with Iomedae and with Shelyn and with Erastil and with Irori. Rovagug and Lamashtu are His enemies. The church of Abadar generally agrees to operate in countries even when local law greatly restricts our operations, because we believe that it is better to have a little transmission of ideas than none. We will not operate in a country whose rulers have cheated us, stolen from us, or ransacked our banks to support their failing empires."

"When the Church mediates a war, does it force agreements that benefit the church - trade agreements, an advisory role -"

       "It would depend on the details of the war and the peace agreement. We would probably want both governments to permit us to operate and evangelize within their territories."

That makes sense; the alliance with Asmodeus is interesting, he's not sure whether there's anything to infer for that aside from 'they're both Lawful.' Abadar wanting to evangelize on the various planets affected by the war seems important to know, but probably fine if that looks like opening temples and not like taking over countries if He disapproves of how they run their economies. 

<I think that is all my questions> he tells Carissa. 

"What's the pharaoh like? How does Abadar choosing the pharaoh work?"

       "Since the end of prophecy it is hard for the gods to work in the world in a way that's not - clumsy. Abadar backed a descendent of the ancient pharaohs who wanted to overthrow the sultan - Osirion was ruled by the Kelesh Empire at the time. There was a bloodless coup, and Khemet I became the first pharaoh since ancient Osirion, and Abadar made him into an aspect of Abadar. He can serve as a translator between Abadar and his priests, at lower cost to Abadar than sending a herald all the time and with more ability to act on Abadar's priorities. The current pharaoh is Khemet III. The new pharaoh is chosen from among the descendents of the last pharaoh. He usually has hundreds, because it matters a lot that Abadar have quality options for the pharaoh - He's constrained by the wisdom and intelligence of the person He chooses, though of course powerful magic items can enhance it."

"Is that why the pharaoh has a harem of hundreds of slaves?"

       "Concubines. But yes, it is why the pharaoh takes more wives and concubines than is recommended for most people."

"Oh, is there a recommended number of concubines for most people."

       "You shouldn't take a second wife unless you have the resources to spare after ensuring that your first wife and all of her children are comfortable, and if she either approves or if you've tried and failed to improve the state of your marriage. You mostly should not take a third wife unless both of the first two are barren and you're sure it's not you."

"I see. What kind of girls does the pharaoh like?"

       "He has them write essays for him about how they think Osirion should be run. He interviews the girls whose essays he likes."

"Is that kind of thing - the same across pharaoh lifetimes or does it vary with the base person appointed pharaoh -"

       "Taste in women? That varies with the base person. Becoming an aspect of Abadar does not erase their existing goals and interests because Abadar is not incompatible with any set of goals and interests, Abadar is an approach to achieving all goals or interests."

"So the pharaoh becomes - perfectly Lawful, but he can be perfectly Lawful about being very fond of, I don't know, wine, or dragon-riding -"

        "Yes, that's right. Though usually Abadar picks ones who like politics and economics and diplomacy."

"I guess that's sensible. And - I think everything I wanted to know. Thank you."

<I think that was somewhat helpful? I found him less confusing than the clerics of Good gods. More frustrating, but - in a way that is almost reassuring, if it is obvious upfront where our assumptions diverge. Should we - go find someone to ask about talking to Andalites?> He feels pretty unsure what the expected diplomatic move is here. 

I guess so. We could go to the palace? We could - go to the mystic thurge of Nethys? But we don't know that she was involved, just, I can't think how they even got Andalites without a Gate.

<I suppose it would be mildly awkward to ask without knowing if she is aware of it, although - Nethys knows everything, right? So it would not be revealing new information to Him even if she was not involved. And I would feel more comfortable going into this knowing more context.> 

I don't know if we can get an audience with her but I guess we can see whether we can buy one. The Temple of the All-Seeing Eye stands out; she starts in its direction. 

Mhalir watches the city through Carissa's eyes. He scouted Sothis before, but somehow that was different, when he was wearing Alloran's body in hawk form, sneaking and perching on rooftops.

He finds himself quite curious what the other people in the street think of this Chelish woman, a wizard laden with expensive magic items, walking through the street alone. Debatable whether that's a worthwhile use of Detect Thoughts, though. 

She gets to the temple and walks in and looks for the nearby teenage staffers. 

          "She's waiting for you," he says. 

"- sorry -"

          "Nefreti. She said to send you up." He points up the stairs. 

Carissa casts Detect Thoughts as subtly as she can as she turns towards the stairs. "Uh, how'd she identify me?"

           "She said your name was Parmida but then she said that it wasn't, and that you'd be Chelish and rich." Richer than the founder of the rainforest, she'd said, and she'd also said that there'd be a companion who he wouldn't see, and she'd also said that both of them were easy to see, but he does not feel like conveying all of Nefreti's nonsense for her, she will soon have the chance to convey it herself. 

Mhalir is so confused but he's going to go along with it. 

Carissa is kind of alarmed but maybe that's just what being a ninth circle cleric of Nethys is like. She goes up the stairs - there's a lot of stairs - she should maybe have Dimension Doored but is that rude? - and eventually reaches the top and knocks.

"Come in!"

"- hello. I'm Carissa."

"Hello, Carissa! And that is Ma'ar - no - that's the base form but I don't know the pattern -"