"We're really pretty all right aside from the needing more space and the reds problem. There are improvements but not ones people are desperately longing for and fewer that are unalloyed goods."

"I seem to find the prospect of everyone eventually dying forever significantly more distressing than you do."

"Yes, you do. More than anyone here, and yet it's hard to see how it is a harm if it is not a harm to us."

"I mean—yes, but—"

"Do you not mourn your dead? Miss them? Do they not wish they could live longer, do more things, see more things?"

"Lots of things grieve me that I would not choose to see extinguished from the world, like sad books and people choosing to make poor decisions and religions that seem to me to be damaging."

"But it seems, to us, that the extinguishing of a person is the worst wrong that could ever be done. We do not see any redeeming qualities in death."

"Once there are enough planets there will at least be fewer of them. But even then some redeeming qualities seem apparent - reduces inequality, allows for social mobility, allows for social progress, in the case of wrongdoers gives comfort and assurance to their victims -"

"We do not see any redeeming qualities in death that cannot be achieved without it," she clarifies.

"Maybe for most people if you have lots and lots of magic to throw at the problem. I don't object, I just - think you might make tradeoffs on our behalf we wouldn't make by virtue of caring about this much more than we do."

"These arguments are not—uncommon. We have heard them from other people of our original species and some others, but it also seems to be the case that, once they have become immortal, they stop finding these arguments compelling in a way that does not seem to be related to the means of becoming so. So we are suspicious of them, and approximately unconsciously expect that to become true of you in the future. But we will try to suppress these instincts and work towards your own goals as you understand them."

"Thank you. Once we have the space I do think many of the things you want can be realized."

Nod.

"And I can see what can be done about them in the interim but - unlike reds, where most of the problem is that no one wants to think about it or values them at all, most of the other problems involve substantial tradeoffs."

"Don't get me wrong, what I genuinely want is for your people to thrive, even if that involves prioritising values I think are less important than others, I want to minimise how much I impose my desires on yours, I just—would like to optimise for what your values would be if you had no resource constraints at all. And I can't give you a complete absence of constraints, of course, but I have a big enough lever to fling you in that direction."

"And we're very excited to be so flung. But - Crystal was unhappy, on the train, about a criminal justice case -"

"—perhaps the best way to relate that to what we are talking about is that prison costs are a resource constraint."

"They are. We'd be happy to be less constrained in that particular dimension. If you wanted to fund something we could run a pilot program in some region, check the effects on deterrence."

"For what it's worth, data from my world suggests that the death penalty as opposed to long prison sentences does not increase deterrence by much if at all, but—different species."

"If the pilot program matches that and the long sentences can be paid for and the citizens prefer it we can happily switch. Different species might matter, though, as might different process - countries that have delayed executions see a serious cost to deterrence -"

"Is that delayed executions or delayed sentencing?"

"Either, I think."

"Hmm. The way your justice system works seems odd, to me, but I don't have the—tools—to properly think about it—"

"Okay. Let me know if there's anything you need."

"I will."