"I mean, I think for most people trying to build a god would be a doomed endeavor, it sounds very very hard. But - if he'd known how? He would've written it up as one of the dilemmas in the book but I don't think he would've just said obviously you can never do that."

"Maybe." Vanyel picks at his thumbnail some more. "I guess you - could be wanting to help people, and think making a god is just worth it, for that - I'm not sure I think Leareth is right but it's not an insane way to think." He frowns. "I - still don't know if that's the thing that was confusing you about people wanting to be good and do the right thing, though." 

"Just, like, whenever you jump from, 'but is trying to make a god by killing lots of people the best way to help people?' to 'obviously you can't be trying to help people if your plans involve killing them', that's confusing, it's not just you lots of Good people do it but I don't have a good model of it."

"Hmm, I - still feel like there's a thing there. That - even if Leareth is actually really trying to make things better, he's doing it in a weird way? I...feel like most normal people wouldn't come up with a plan that involved murdering a lot of innocent people in order to help other different people later, because it'd - be too upsetting? It'd feel too unfair and cruel? And it...makes Leareth a lot scarier, that apparently he doesn't feel like that." 

"Hmmm.

I - does Valdemar not fight wars -"

"Valdemar doesn't start wars. That's - an example of a bright line, I guess, Valdemar won't invade and conquer other places. We've - fought back in wars that other kingdoms started with us, because not doing that would be failing innocent people too. Seldasen writes about that, right? And - even in peacetime sometimes Heralds have to go arrest bandits and - I've killed people before." He shudders, looks vaguely nauseated. "I - just - I think it's important that the way I feel about that is really really horrible? And maybe Leareth does but if so he doesn't exactly show it." 

"Why is it important to feel squeamish about it? Are you worried you'd do it more than you endorse if you didn't feel squeamish about it?"

"...I'm worried someone could end up killing people when it was - most convenient, the least hassle for them. Instead of only when there's absolutely no other way." 

"I guess that's probably pretty accurate."

"Leareth seems pretty willing to do things that kill or hurt people whenever it's convenient for him." 

"Maybe compared to a Herald? He does it much less than a Chelish person, and I don't see why he'd be particularly lenient around me when I don't expect it and don't even consider it a positive quality. What's, uh, a situation where he's killed people for what struck you as particularly little reason?"

"He cut a pass through the mountains. To take his army through, whenever he was going to invade. It's - where I am, in the Foresight dream. And then later I checked from up at the northern border and I can see it with Farsight too, it's real. Anyway, it was done with blood-magic. I can tell, in the dream, and he didn't even try to deny it when I asked him." 

"Huh. Did he tell you what the person did?"

"Who di- Oh, you mean whoever he killed. I think it'd have to be more than one person, it's half a mile long and..." his eyes go unfocused for a moment as he tries to picture it, "...I don't know, it's got to be fifty yards deep, at the point where the walls are highest. Why, do you think he only kills people he's decided are bad anyway?" 

" - well, if I were doing it I'd use people I needed to execute anyway, first off, it's bad for morale if you just do a lottery or something. Maybe he's just kidnapping random people but that can attract attention, and he presumably doesn't particularly want that?"

"I guess." Vanyel does not seem incredibly reassured by this idea. 

"And it affects what his - threshold for killing people is, right, if he's willing to kidnap and kill lots of people to dig a pass then that suggests different things about his priorities than if he had to execute some people for something Valdemar would execute people for too, and used them to build a pass while he was at it."

Vanyel nods, grudgingly. "Though, I mean, he's willing to invade us without any provocation, which would kill a lot of people." 

"...would it?"

"- Yes? Wars kill a lot of people!" 

"I know wars kill a lot of people! Just. Wars kill a lot of people if the invading army doesn't mind killing a lot of people, or if the two sides are roughly evenly matched enough the war can drag out, and if I were a ninth-circle wizard - which Leareth isn't, that's just my reference point for what someone who is a thousand years old can do - 

- I could assassinate everyone in the palace in their beds on the same night with message-activated Symbols of Death and the same thing in the building that the Heralds sleep in, and then have parties show up to all the local nobles with terms first thing in the morning."

Vanyel REALLY does not seem to find this reassuring at ALL!

This makes her a little nervous but it feels like an important point so she keeps going. "If he wants there to be lots of people around for the god plan he has lots of incentive to keep people alive for that, no matter how little you expect he values their lives in general. I would expect his first three plans to all be plans to decapitate Valdemar while killing less than a thousand people. Maybe even less than that. If I were a ninth circle wizard and didn't want any casualties I could petrify all the leadership instead, and then wake them up in exile in my personal demiplane. Good coups are totally bloodless."

Vanyel shudders. "I - guess that'd be the smart thing for him to do. And then the army would, what, just be to stand around looking scary so the nobles don't fight back?" 

"Or so that the neighbors don't get clever and figure it's a perfect time to invade while the Heralds are gone and Herald-related military infrastructure is in chaos and the Guard's figuring out who they're loyal to."