malduoni learns about some suspicious otherworldly visitors
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Aroden approaches this one about the same as before, except with more specific questions to ask based on what he learned from the first man. And also a bit more pent-up irritation and impatience, which he would normally try to address, but which seem helpful (albeit horrifyingly so) for the particular case of getting kidnapped Chelish wizards to be cooperative. 

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This one also thinks he's nuts but is not particularly inclined to say so to his face while unable to defend himself! Also the impatience and irritation is making him nervous and he tries to be deferential, though mostly not in a way that causes him to get to the important information sooner.

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Carissa thinks that Yeerking is kinder than having people spend hours cowering under the threat of torture.

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Mhalir is also pretty uncomfortable watching it! He's under no illusions that Yeerking people for interrogations is anything but horrible, but at least he generally makes sure people don't remember it and don't know what's happening at the time, and it doesn't take hours...

<Maybe you should go tell the Andalites what you think about it> he says to her once the second interrogation is finally done. <I am not even sure we managed to learn everything relevant either.> 

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Sure. Where's the spokes-Andalite. She finds him and says "Do you really think that was better than just letting Mhalir look at them?"

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<....yes, I do. Do you not? You could have asked them if they preferred to be Yeerked; I predict they would've said no.>

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"They might've said no because - because it sounds very suspicious, and maybe it's one of those things where you have to be willing but they don't have to describe it honestly or be honest about what they're going to do with it, or because they expect Mhalir to be way more punitive about uncooperativeness than he is."

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<...do you have information about how punitive about uncooperativeness he is? You have cooperated.>

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"When I first got kidnapped I was very misleading about how spells work so as to arrange an opportunity to escape and he didn't even torture me about it, and he had no reason not to, it wouldn't've made me less cooperative, I knew I deserved it."

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< - people do not actually deserve to get tortured! Ever!>

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"I'm not saying I would - benefit in terms of personal growth, or that it'd be better for me than not that, I'm saying - 

- so the obvious class of occasions to torture people is when they did something, deliberately, in their interests and against yours, expecting the punishment not to be bad enough to be deterred from doing it? If you hurt people who were predictably going to do something different no matter the penalty then you're not accomplishing anything and if you hurt people whose defiance wasn't deliberate then it might be motivating but it might just be a waste of resources, like, there's no point in punishing me for not being ninth circle -"

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<I see how you are using the word> he says grudgingly. <Andalites do not torture people punitively under any circumstances even if we think it would have deterred them from something awful because it is a - bad thing to cultivate expertise in, and the very limited deterrence benefits do not seem worth the costs to the person, and it seems like it would forestall better solutions to your problem which is probably not fundamentally caused by the punishments for disobedience not being steep enough.>

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"Yes, the - caring about the costs to the person, I hadn't encountered it before, it's very sweet."

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<It is not a characteristic I would have particularly ascribed to Visser Three.>

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"When he met me he said all the Andalites hated Yeerks for being oozes."

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<...we don't. I don't know why he said that.>

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"My point here is that both of you believe very stupid things about each other which are to external inspection obviously not true."

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<I know. But - among Andalites, the caring-about-other-people is a felt sense and it wouldn't be compatible with torturing someone for decades. So that is how we made the mistake, an Andalite couldn't have cared about people and did what he did.>

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" - huh. I haven't asked Mhalir how he does the caring about people. When I have tried it it's very compatible with torturing them but I think I'm not very good at it. - this isn't what we were discussing."

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<It is not. You think that those people would not have had enough information to meaningfully decide they'd rather be Yeerked. So what do you mean that you think it would've been better for them? Do you mean that if they had somehow had full information including about Mhalir's intentions and personality they'd prefer it? I believe you about that but I am not sure we should make decisions off that; it seems disrespectful to the people actually in front of us.>

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"I guess I mean that but I also mean something more - complicated than that? Or simpler - having a Yeerk in your head while unconscious doesn't affect you, and being questioned under a geas for hours does, and I've been both of them and the being questioned under a geas for hours was much worse. And I think we should do the thing that doesn't affect them and not the thing that does."

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<...do you not conceive of it as being possible to harm people in ways they do not know about?>

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"...I wouldn't claim that the harm is zero but it's going to be much smaller than the harm from....almost all things that you do know about? Probably Yeerking someone in their sleep is worse than, I don't know, stepping on their toe. But it can't even compare to interrogating them for hours under a geas."

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<Do you happen to know how common it is for humans to feel that way?>

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"No idea, really."

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