Yes?

We might be Doomed and this would be very very dangerous anyway.

Very. I don't see how I'd be Doomed under any reasonable interpretation, but it's the biggest risk so far with or without that.

If you say no we don't need to worry about the Fëanorians doing it unilaterally, but if it works we could end the war fast.

They swear at three?

Yes. Between that and the prioritizing not betraying the Enemy over their own lives, I think we can say it's a success on the original question. But I somehow wasn't expecting it to be that ugly.

Even Mandos can't do anything about oaths. Every orc, stuck forever -

- I think it's worth doing.

We might be able to. I don't know how or how long, but there aren't many absolutes. Once we win the war.

"We have a weapon. Melkor doesn't know this weapon. If you swear to use it on him, to try everything to not get caught, and to tell no one unless he forces you to tell him, it might kill him. I want it to.

But he is strong enough, and would want to know badly enough, that I think he would want you to swear that oath more than not swear it."

"You don't know him, you could be lying again, you could be very confused - the Elves confused you -"

"I swear that I have not lied to you. Could be confused. Do you think he'd rather wait and find out what the weapon is when Elves have a better time to use it themselves?"

"Don't think we can use a weapon on him, might just count as contradicting oaths - unless it wasn't going to work on him -"

"Might or might not. If definitely not then I wouldn't be asking, but I think it would more not work than work."

"Still might be contradicting oaths."

"Would it be if I said why it might not work, enough that you thought the same? If you knew I wasn't confused or lying."

"If the rule is have to try something on Melkor, but he'd want us to, and it probably won't harm him, that's okay. Unless he orders us not to, then we'd have contradiction oaths."

"I think it probably won't harm him. But I don't know.

If he orders you not to, you've already been caught and he could definitely stop you. No reason to try it then."

"So we could swear to try it unless he orders us not to. That'd be safe."

"Safe even if you swear to do everything you can to make sure you don't get caught? If that part works, he'd have no time to order you anything."

"If he'd want us to, yeah. If you swear you think he'd want us to, and you think we'd think that if we had a full explanation."

"I think he'd want you to if he knew what you know now, even though you'll be trying your best to keep it from him until he makes you tell. If you had a full explanation I think you'd agree. I swear that I have not lied to you."

"...okay."

"Can you swear that when I give it to you you will try to use it to hurt and kill Melkor even though it probably does not work on him, that no one will catch or question or order you if you can avoid it, that you will tell no one about the weapon unless Melkor makes you tell him, and that you will not use it when killing Elves and helping others to kill Elves?"

"Unless Melkor orders us otherwise."

"Can he order you to use it against Elves, if you swear not to? He would know ordering you would not work, and if he just wants to force you into contradicting oaths he can already do that."

"He would do it anyway, to make an example."

"And if he'd do that then you'd be better off killed by Elves. Not that part, then, if you swear that Melkor would make it contradict the oath about not betraying him."