"Do you have a guess about why they want me?"

"My guess is that they do not have a good reason, but that it feels less frightening and unfamiliar because they met you, however briefly. And...perhaps they think that as a newcomer to Velgarth, you are less likely to scheme circles around them than someone I select? Or that you are unsure of your allegiance to me and they can persuade you to join them instead? I am not sure." 

"I guess if I did defect I'd be unusually valuable?...relatedly you wouldn't let me which I'd think they'd have, uh, noticed, considering...that doesn't feel like a sufficient justification and it makes me uneasy but I'm kind of stuck on scrying and I'm not going to level here so I'm not opposed if you think I should go."

"I need to consider it, but I wanted your input first, I was not going to send you against your will. ...What did you think of Seldasen on ethics, by the way? I am curious whether the Heralds' way of thinking makes any more sense to you than the Good paladins in Golarion." 

"It was a very good explanation of what he wanted and where he thought it was tricky. I think I could probably convince the paladins I understand Good now, though I don't expect that's what makes an Atonement go through. The dilemmas mostly ...weren't. I was interested in whether someone could come up with some that were dilemmas to Chelish people. There are probably some but - you could hardly publish that book about them. Were any of them - ones you find challenging?"

"- Some, yes, though I think not for the reasons that would be most obvious to many people. And - perhaps ones that would be confusing to you, given that Cheliax seems to assume everyone is lying all the time."

He frowns, searching for words, and finally goes on. "Obviously it is not very hard to come up with examples where in the short run, lying will save lives or other value, and refusing to lie seems obviously stupid and - to be a pursuing a principle past the point of absurdity. But - there is a sort of metaphorical social fabric that is damaged by lying being commonplace, I think. You are not well placed to notice this because in Cheliax it was thoroughly shredded and ground to dust a long time ago. To me the damage this caused is very obvious; it makes it nearly impossible to form accurate models of reality, if you need input from other people to fill them out, because instead of being determined by a fact of the matter that everyone can measure via experiment, people's beliefs are determined by what will not get them executed for disloyalty, and everyone is spending massive mental overhead all the time, interpreting other people's lies and backing out their motives. Cheliax is a very extreme example, of course, but I think you can see subtler distinctions between different societies in Velgarth. A Herald lying to the populace because it was strategic in the short run would - be burning a resource that Valdemar currently possesses. And the same is true of me, actually. I - try to be very straightforward with the people who work with me, because I do not want them spending cognitive overhead on figuring out what I mean and why I am saying it, rather than on doing important god-related research. ...Also I have never outright lied to Vanyel. He probably does not believe this, and I would not expect it, but it is true." 

"I guess if people don't lie then it makes sense not to be the first to start," she says reluctantly, "except, then someone else will be the first to start, and will accrue all the advantages of lying to people who just believe them. I think the only stable state is everyone expecting that everyone else might be lying."

"One would think, and yet Valdemar has not drifted from its current equilibrium even over eight hundred years. And their Truth Spell was only discovered quite recently!" 

"But presumably some people were just lying to everyone and successfully got away with it? And just...no one ever caught on? They must've had lots of people getting away with murder, if they think that people accused of murder won't lie about whether they did it."

"- You know, there are plenty of ways to catch criminals other than direct confessions from them, especially if you have magic. Also I think that until recently the Heralds' court of appeals allowed mindreading to prove if the defendants were innocent or guilty. Though, yes, the Heralds are not everywhere and I am sure many murder cases went unsolved." 

"It sounds like a strong argument for not lying if you might get caught."

"You know, I think most people are not as good at lying as you, and are thus easier to catch." 

"...I guess people here do seem worse at lying. I thought about asking Calib to do things for me, when I wasn't sure I didn't want to escape, but quite aside from getting him killed I didn't think he'd be any good at it."

Nod. "So I think there are different equilibria here - one where everyone lies all the time and thus becomes skilled at it, though I assume some people are less skilled than you and are punished for it. And there is a different stable point where for most people the easiest route to achieving their goals does not involve lying - at least, not about important things or to authority figures - and so they do not become good at it, and - some actors can game the system by lying skillfully, but not quite enough to tip the balance. Also honesty is seen with respect in Valdemar, which I imagine is not the case in Cheliax; to call someone an honest merchant is high praise, to call them a dishonest one is as good as calling them a criminal. And private gossip is quite good at catching systematic dishonesty, often, even if the courts are not." 

"Merchants care for their reputation in Cheliax, too. But - I guess that all follows." She frowns. "I'm still not sure it lends itself to a calculus more complicated than 'lie when you won't get caught'."

"Well, judging the likelihood you will be caught is a skill in itself, right? And - I think when people are not in the habit of lying constantly, it becomes less of an affordance in their minds, such that it does not occur to most normal people as an option unless they are in dire straits - at which point, lying plausibly under pressure is an even harder skill that I suspect many in Valdemar have never even considered training in advance of when they might need it." 

She nods. "I guess I can see how that'd function, as a society. And be - a valuable thing to preserve, if you had it."

Nod. "Anyway, that is one answer I have for which questions seem genuinely hard to me. Also, I - think it is not a good sign about Cheliax, that a book like this could not be written there."

"I think it - makes people less Asmodean. The book. It makes there be less of them that Asmodeus can use. Which isn't a favor to them, if it's their only possible fate."

"Right. Whereas I - think the Heralds would consider it quite undesirable, to be the sort of people who can be used by Asmodeus. ...What about the book do you think makes people less Asmodean? That - is interesting to me." 

"Well, it ....assumes you should be figuring out how to get what you want? There's - very little in it that's about what you'll get punished for. It thinks of the - unit of analysis of decisionmaking - as what you'd like the world to be like."

"Yes, it does do that. Not all writing on ethics does, but - well, this is very much the way I think, and it is a major reason why I described Seldasen as an unusually sane man." 

"I think that it makes people harder for Asmodeus to use, when they - shape themselves to try to do that."

Nod. "Whereas it - is almost a prerequisite I need for people to be the most valuable to me within my organization? This is the thing I have hoped you would grow into all along, I think, but it is inherently not the sort of thing I can demand of someone who is afraid of me." 

"I guess not. That - makes sense. If you weren't very lenient all the time I'd be thinking - how to be safe, not what I wanted to do."