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Jun 14, 2021 3:18 PM
a d/s au Alessa and cousin in Daémon
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They're being given to understand it's not exactly the same here? And even where they're from being subs or doms isn't at all the only factor in how people come at things or why they say them. Also subs and doms being likely to think about the same thing differently doesn't mean either of them are guaranteed to do a great job - both a sub or a dom could be bad at trip planning, actually. (Is that ok to say? Hopefully will be alright, she'd just basically complained about a regulation and people making it first...).

...He thinks sub army-leaders in particular can have a higher proportion of very good at their jobs, but he thinks that's generally because it's still harder for a sub to get to that position so the ones who do are more likely to be really good. And also possibly because of what a sub army-leader up against someone that doesn't let subs do that can expect to happen if they lose, he's not sure if motivation in that sense does something there.

And likewise doesn't at all tell you or guarantee they'll be good in the other sense - General Jiasi was a sub, right, and aside from her military victories is mostly known for building monuments out of human bones and burning people alive in front of them. 

Most people don't think subs have to or are supposed to be pleasing and devoted to everyone - unless they're temple prostitutes or something. They're supposed to be polite and respectful and follow etiquette. Likewise they're not expected to just be obedient to all dominants - obedience is to the dom in charge of them, and to authorities like the government.

(...And, he definitely didn't control his voice and face enough when he said part of that. ...Well, he can't go back in time and do it, so - going to find out how Verity does respond to something like that. At least it's not too bad a thing to find out with. ...Probably, he doesn't actually know if what people do and don't get very severe about is the same here, but it does at least feel like 'poor attitude' isn't the sort of thing you can be too strict on without getting a place that looks pretty different from the place they've been walking around. Maybe.)


...He is distracted from other things he might have said by watching Verity carefully for reactions.


By Fleet standards, that didn't parse as potentially-rude.

"Good point about the sub army leaders.  I think it's similar to people who aren't expected Types locally.  For example, bartenders are usually poison type because that's whose encouraged to try and who tend to get hired over other applicants with the same credentials.  There are some laws to try and prevent things like that, but they're more to do with making sure employee areas are accessible to different-sized daemons and stopping people from discriminating against passively electro-receptive, empathic, or magneto-receptive daemons, not things based on types.  

"There are some legal limits to who can work what jobs.  For legendaries mostly, who need to be part of the church."  She obviously finds this one personally unpleasant.  "There's also safety rules - charmander have open flames on their bodies so can't work in places close to explosives, for example.  It's unfair, but not... arbitrary.  And Moves, of course.  Can't power the ship if you can't generate electricity.  People who can learn certain moves will sometimes be drafted to do them in emergencies, too."  She's still not happy about those, though in the tone of someone who acknowledges that something is in fact entirely reasonable and has no arguments.

"Is being expected to follow etiquette an instinctive thing, or something that your cultures demand?  That's the one I really can't see myself doing - not automatically."  More slowly, thinking it through aloud, "I'd do as much as I had to, if I were going to be punished for it otherwise or if I needed something that I could only get that way.  It wouldn't be natural, though.  If anything, people who want to own or control things are usually the polite ones, that I've noticed, since it helps them get elected or promoted."


(Rude wasn't exactly the thing he was worried about in this case, the thing he was worried about was his attitude toward obedience and also the government.)


To them, her response will be very reassuring, in the lack of immediate disapproval or similar reaction, and in her tones about aspects of her society. She isn't happy, or not entirely happy, with some things the government does, some things the church does, and she'll share that with them, will let it be known.

He takes in the more information about society here.


"Doms have etiquette too. More like how you said though - goes with people thinking well of them. Not enforced by punishment, at least not where we're from. I think some places have done that too? Still wouldn't be the same as for subs though.

And cultures differ on etiquette - just what it looks but also how much of it they do and how strict it is and all.

...I think subs feel different ways about etiquette." He himself has definitely spent disproportionate amounts of time on the 'formal dinner' parts of certain romances and dramas, but could also definitely do with less of the thrashings for not being great at doing conversations with doms all right. (He doesn't say that, not yet.)


(He's pretty sure it's not the case that they don't have etiquette at all here - lower stratum, less strict, he's been thinking it already and it seems more likely, but - you can have different expectations about whether you greet coworkers with kisses or whether you apologize directly to someone or get it passed on or who does what at dinner, but he doesn't think it would really work to have no expectations at all. But he knows sometimes people think of just higher stratums of etiquette as etiquette, of everything else as something else. That's probably what she means.)

"I like it. For - myself." Not for - but he's not going to say that either, yet.

And, trying - "I'm sorry you get put into something that isn't right for you."


"Thank you for saying that," she says, not sure if it would be a good idea to add anything else.  A lot of people wind up places they don't like because that's what the fleet needs.  She's also not sure if she should apologize for their world in turn.  On the axis of dominant and submissive they were sorted the way they wanted.  Presumably they're happy with it?  She's skeptical, but can't really tell, particularly not without a parallel daemon conversation to help.  

"Even compared to the others on the fleet, I have a hard time liking procedures that exist purely to waste as much time as possible with no benefit."  

"...Though I suppose I shouldn't be too dismissive.  If you want to be in certain professions it can be important.  Anything to do with that is something you should ask Azure about directly.  That's how I met him - The upper class has more elaborate rules than what I was used to, growing up, and care more about reputation.  He spends time with people from lots of places, and approached me as to be a possible teacher since he could tell I was out of place there when I first settled.  Admittedly, I wound up not following them, but not because of him.  Azure is respectable - in the literal sense that he's earned my respect."


(Well, someone might say, if she voiced that - her daemon settled to a Suicine, did they not? Does that mean that she is happy with all that comes with it?)

He ducks his head and laughs, a little (allows it in himself - he'll stop if she doesn't seem to like it, but the conversation seems to be going well -). "I do know people who feel that way. That... can be harder on submissives, I think. If you don't like it for itself, and it doesn't help to think about reflecting well on your dominant, or doesn't help enough. Dominants can - decide more, if places vary and some suit them more than others." (That's... probably an acceptable next level of risk. Following her lead, and in some ways just an elaboration of 'I think subs feel different ways about etiquette'. And - in some ways not - more steps, more watching for reactions.)

And - this seems like a good way to bring the topic -

Nodnod. "He's been very good to us too. Generous, and forgiving.

We - would want very much to understand better, the rules and how to act here. To - act correctly, and be good guests of your society, and not to be - further trouble on him, or to reflect very poorly. We've - made some mistakes, and he was very clement with us, and kind, as we were unknowing." He can tell the story of the bathroom incident, eyes repeatedly down and flushing a little, to have done something unacceptable in such an area, and have so angered someone by it. "But we wouldn't want to keep repeating anything like that, of course."

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