Next Post »
« Previous Post
Permalink

There has been much discussion in the city of whether it is the will of Iomedae that Evildoers be spared, because among the Good Virtues is Mercy, or that they die, because another among them is Justice. This is clearly answered in the Acts of Iomedae and should not be a matter of great confusion.

 

In the Book of the Eighth Act, Iomedae confronts a terrible undead Graveknight, the Black Prince. His Evil deeds are innumerable; for his crimes he is damned many times over. It would be Iomedae's Right to destroy him, and it is what he expects. Instead, she sits with him and speaks with him. She invites him to see the Damage that his Evil has wrought on His Own Soul, and on all Around Him. She teaches him that his Evil has been moved by Despair, by his conviction that for anyone as damned as HE there is no home of escape. A lie that makes itself true, is Despair, and so the worst sin. She speaks with him of all of the horrors he has wrought, and how frequently He claimed of them that there was no other choice, and she shows him that there was always another choice.

Ultimately, overcome by remorse, and seeing Too Late the route of escape that was present to him All Along, the Black Prince cried out to Iomedae for courage and strength; for he saw that he ought to go to judgment, that the world would be Safe from him and Justice done to him, but he knew that for the sake of Justice he descended into the fires of Hell. And Iomedae said to him, this is not so, for a man who fully comprehends the evils of his ways, who renounces them entire, and with his last choice chooses to cut his victims free of him and brave even Hell rather than Continue in them, that man is not in the end Damned. If I killed you here, She said to him, you would indeed be damned. And if you walk away knowing the toll of your Continuance, you will indeed be Damned. But there is Another Way, and for the hope of it I stay my hand, and I pray fervently for you to find it, and not to let your terror of damnation itself damn you any longer.


And the Black Prince saw the truth of her words, and joy and hope were long dead in him but he drew his own sword and impaled himself upon it and was dead, and was judged Lawful Neutral, and went to the Halls of Aroden and to Paradise Forever. 


THIS is mercy. It is not mercy to let men who have done crimes walk free, it is INJUSTICE, with Good cannot countenance. It is mercy to show them the NARROW ESCAPE from DAMNATION which still exists to them, and to stay your hand that they may die by their own.



What is the meaning of this? We should permit Evildoers another choice of method of execution. They should be permitted to Acknowledge their guilt, Acknowledge their sin, and take their own life to free the world of the Evils they brought to it, that by their hand they renounce their sins, and may Iomedae keep them.

Total: 18
Posts Per Page:
Permalink

 

 

"Can we actually get a correction issued on this one? The first point of concern is, in Lastwall the Book of the Eighth Act has to be printed in full without modification, because the point it's making is complicated and getting it slightly sideways just means people getting confused and going around killing themselves as an act of repentence, which is in fact usually Evil. 

The second point of concern is, having suicide as an option of methods of execution doesn't help at all. it is important that Iomedae told him she was not going to kill him, which meant he could have walked away, and that he made his choice knowing that his alternative was not 'death by a different hand and certain damnation' but returning to the Evil ways of which he'd just repented. And She knew that while he feared damnation greatly his repentance was sincere enough that he would not for his own sake return to the crimes he'd spent his whole life to date committing for his own continuance. If there were someone who was - a werebeast, or something, who was offered the choice of release to go on werebeasting or suicide, and killed themselves to spare their future victims they had no other realistic means of sparing, that'd be an analogous situation, but 'kill yourself or we'll kill you' is not analogous at all; no innocents rest in the bargain.

The third point of concern is that in the Book of the Eighth Act Iomedae is doing cleanup in Ustalav, a land she did not rule, with the leave of its legitimate government to act within its laws on her own judgment. The things you should do as an adventurer with the state's permission to handle wrongdoers as you see fit are very different from the things you should do as a government, because a government needs to be predictable. Iomedae did not choose to set up Lastwall's courts system as 'Iomedae personally talks you out of Hell', even though She could have. Lastwall's courts execute people for serious crimes, they do not forgive them and persuade them to choose death anyway. Though they do require where possible that the condemned by offered time for reflection and the counsel of a priest. The leap from the Book of the Eighth Act to government policy proposals betrays a very serious misunderstanding -"

Permalink

"Sir, are you going to buy it or not?"

Permalink

"I am asking you to stop selling it because it is seriously mistaken and will probably inspire a bunch of people to religiously motivated suicides that will damn them!"

Permalink

 

 

"Yes of course sir."

Permalink



For the love of all that is holy, this isn't going to work at all. He needs to find the copyist. He looks back to the urchin to ask where the copyist has been found but the urchin has bolted.

Permalink

"...forgive me if I'm making some obvious mistake, but presumably the author of this pamphlet has read the eighth book in its unaltered entirety, or at least I'd be surprised to learn that he hasn't; if people who've read it can still make this mistake," as Blai would probably have done if de Luna weren't standing right there while he was whiling away the evening on pamphlets, "perhaps theology specialists should publish - a few different approvable rewordings of the essentials so that more people can find one that makes sense and doesn't prompt mispromulgation?"

Permalink

"Many such have been published! If I'd known before I came that it was the policy of the Chelish government for everyone to have complex theological arguments about whether the audience should kill themselves by broadsheet I'd have tried to get them revised down to broadsheet size and brought them with me!

The very shortest approved commentary on the Eighth Act is that the Act is included for its extremely valuable discussion of Hell and the dynamics of Evil and the manner in which the existence of the Evil afterlives do not, as sometimes imagined, inspire men to virtue but often trap them in wickedness. It is included also because it was already famous that Iomedae talked the Black Knight into suicide and it wouldn't be better to not explain what She said. 

However, featuring as it does a conversation between the Goddess and an undead graveknight twisted towards destruction and having long since lost most of his good impulses, it is not representative of how most people ought to think about which options they have. And it is almost never right to give up all one's future ability to do good in the world as an act of repentance; the value of repentance is in the habits of thought it closes and the ones it opens, and those are valuable because with better habits one can do better in the world. And finally, that to many young men the temptation to die righteously sings much more loudly than the temptation to live righteously, and that temptation must not be confused either for virtue or for courage: the best way to sacrifice your life for Good is one day at a time."

Permalink

"Oh, perhaps I misunderstood when you said it could only be printed in its entirety, I'd have expected a commentary to have quotes..." He's already bought a copy and is blinking at it. "Should I give you this? So you can find the copyist more easily?"

Permalink

"The commentaries pointedly don't have quotes, they just say 'verse 38 line 4', to remind you that you are supposed to be looking at the thing in its entirety if you are trying to draw conclusions about it. I...don't know what I could do with the copy? I think probably my best option here is to go to the major copying-houses and see if any of them are running it, and then attempt to compose a diplomatic letter to the palace to the effect that most places avoid problems with confused, lawless and destructive opinions being attributed to the Church by not handing them out in the streets."

Permalink

"If you were going to scry the fellow or something, I wasn't sure how you'd normally go about it, but if you don't want it I suppose it can be a - discussion prompt when I meet whoever's going to go over my catechism with me tonight."

Permalink

"Oh, is that how the archmages are finding pamphlet writers? I suppose that'd do it, if you're an archmage. I had not been imagining that they were - trying to deliberately hide their authorship. If they're trying that I will probably be unable to find them. I was hoping that they just read Acts and were trying to be helpful and were unaware that producing hundreds of copies of lay commentary is not in fact helpful. - keep it, I hope it's a useful discussion prompt." He will tiredly set off towards the copying-houses that are confident enough to announce their location.

Permalink

Blai has never actually been suicidal in his life. He's just never had a problem that it seemed like suicide would help with. Mostly because he has spent the overwhelming majority of his life convinced that if he killed himself he'd immediately go to Hell and have most of the same problems and also new worse ones, but even now that he expects he could have refused his resurrection and ended in Axis, it's not where his mind goes; he is neither surprised nor disappointed to find himself alive.

It'd just be sort of nice to have a definitive answer about when over the course of his lifetime he would have been meant to do what other thing instead of the things he did.

Permalink

To those persons in the service of Her Majesty Aspexia III of Cheliax, Protector of Isger and Sargava, Duchess of &c&c&c who concern themselves with any of Peace in Westcrown, Incitement To Conduct That Is Non-Criminal But Is Dangerous, Accuracy of Materials Disseminated about The Church of Iomedae, or Censorship Broadly:

 

Great ills having recently resulted from mistaken and damaging false information repeated in Westcrown about the teachings of Iomedae, the Church is firmly interested in identifying avenues to prevent the spread of such information in the future, not merely in the cases where it constitutes a call for violence but also in cases where it misrepresents judgment as it is understood to function, the teachings of the Church, the desires of Iomedae for the Chelish citizenry, and the applicability of various historical examples to the present moment. Mindful of how busy the crown is at the moment but also of the possibility these misunderstandings have the potential to make them busier still, we would seek a meeting with Westcrown's board of censorship if any such exist, or otherwise with any power in Westcrown concerned with determining the bounds of claims distributed in the streets, to discuss whether improvements can be made which would prevent a recurrence of the enormous harms such false claims have recently wrought.

Yours respectfully,

Sir Alexandre de Luna

Permalink

Sir Alexandre Riguez de Luna,

The existing censorship apparatus of the state of Cheliax was dismantled after the four-day war, and a replacement has not yet been put in place. The policy of the Crown at present is to permit all writings which do not call for violence. In particular, Crown policy is not to take a position on matters of heresy, except when it is found to be the deliberate workings of agents of the lower planes. If the church of Iomedae wishes to avoid misunderstandings, the available immediate recourse is to propagate true information and official corrections of circulating falsehoods. If you have reason to believe some falsehoods are being deliberately spread by enemies of Good, you may also report that to the crown, and it will be dealt with appropriately.

Requests for legal reforms, such as the establishment of a crown censorship board, a mandate for the government to police religious matters, or the establishment of an Iomedan inquisition, are best made through the church's representative(s) to the constitutional convention.

In Her Majesty's Service,
Cécile Deschamps,
Ministry of Social Matters

Permalink

Madam Deschamps,

Thank you for your swift reply. Regrettably the Church has two representatives to the Constitutional Convention: one has been arrested and awaits execution because pamphlets containing false, inflammatory, and dangerous claims about the Church of Iomedae were circulated without her permission quoting excerpts from a speech that she gave, and the Church's other such representative was murdered in the streets of Westcrown because pamphlets containing false, inflammatory, and dangerous claims about the Church of Iomedae were circulated. Were it otherwise, I would certainly appeal to them to consider policies which might restrain such speech before men die rather than afterwards. 

 

He can't send it. He writes it out for his own satisfaction and then instead composes a notice for the temple to post, to the effect:

The Church strongly recommends against the purchase of theological literature from street vendors in Westcrown. In every case where the Church has reviewed such literature, it has contained serious and material inaccuracies, many of them inaccuracies which will mislead men to damnation. Not a single pamphlet has been identified which would pass even cursory review by any board concerned with religious education, accuracy, or the teachings of the Church. Many people mistakenly imagine that pamphlets must by law contain true statements, quote accurately where they purport to quote, or represent the stance of the Church where they claim to represent the official teachings of Iomedae. This is not so. All pamphlets that claim to proffer the teachings of the Church of Iomedae do so falsely. 

Permalink

Simplicio: I am Simplicio, a Gormless reader.

Fiducia: I am Fiducia, a Learned Abadaran.

Simplicio: I mistakenly imagine that pamphlets must by law contain True Statements.

Fiducia: I correctly understand that the law allows pamphlets to be True or False. 

Simplicio: I foolishly waste coin on the pamphlets of Vile Scribes and read the False Statements within.

Fiducia: I wisely avoid pamphlets of Vile Scribes for my coin is better spent on True Statements. 

Simplicio: Truly, only a fool befitting the name Simplicio would think there is Value and Use for pamphlets with False Statements. 

Permalink

Iomedae: I am Iomedae, the enemy of Hell. I am not Geryon, the deceitful servant of Hell who claims False Identities. 

Simplicio: I am an easily swayed commoner desiring to be good. 

Iomedae: Do you wish to reach Heaven and escape Hell?

Simplicio: My country has been ruled by Hell for many years and forced me to do Evil. I fear I cannot escape Hell and reach Heaven. 

Iomedae: Behold my Acts and follow the example within.

Simplicio: Wondrous Acts! Inspired, I shall spend my life Fighting Evil. 

Iomedae: No not that Act. The one where I say to Slay Yourself in order to Redeem the Soul. 

Simplicio: It is said that to do such a thing is Evil and delivers a soul to Hell. Would the Death of all who seek Heaven not leave all undefended against Servants of Hell?

Iomedae: You must trust me because I am Iomedae. I tell you it is better to Perish instead of Fighting Evil.

This Thread Is On Hiatus
Total: 18
Posts Per Page: