"This is the first real city I've seen before either. But Cheliax is for the cities and castles and queen, the rest of us were just a way to get them food and workers and money. That's how it was under Asmodeus, and I think Aroden too? A country with Erastil as the primary god would be the opposite way, the cities and castles and the country is for the people living here. So I agree with what you said but I don't know how to get a country like that."

It takes him a while to figure out what Lluisa is asking. "Are you asking if the country can pick a different church for different things, based on what that church is good at? I think that makes sense, but I think a country always has one god as the main one in charge? I know Lastwall and Mendev have Iomedae in charge the same way Cheliax had Aroden. There's one country where Abadar is in charge, Nidal has the shadow god. So even if we put different churches in charge of different things, one is going to be the main one?"

Someone who knows more countries about than just stories he's heard from an uncle who fought at the worldwound, please speak up here.

"Rahadoum, Absalom, Andoran, Galt, Thuvia, Molthune, Ustalav and Taldor do not have a single god of the nation. Absalom and Taldor did have Aroden, prior to his death, but no longer do."

"And Sarenrae is goddess of Qadira and the entire Kelesh empire, which prospers well under her."

She has a vague idea Irori is a more major God in Vudra... but not if he leads it?  And she isn't going to falsely boast on Irori's behalf, that feels distinctly wrong!  So she doesn't speak up.

"Well, Andoran's probably a good and a Good example, so if they're getting along without a single state religion we can too. I really did like that tithe idea. Churches help support and protect communities as much as a lord, even a particularly good one, ought to, and a portion of taxes going to the benign church of the choice of the taxpayer seems good to me. Is there a problem with the idea I'm not seeing or should we write that up?"

"Any churches that provide important services and lack a local base of support may lack for subscribers, such as those that maintain guards against desolate wilderness areas. City churches with little work will grow rich off of the tithes of merchants; country churches with much will grow poor. But I have no superior alternative strategy."

He does not think he will get a Sarenrite theocracy and so he will just try to go for her being a very well-worshipped Good goddess.

Lluïsa addresses the chair. "Would the Churches beneficiary to such Tithes be chosen from an affirmatively Approved List, or chosen from all those Churches not Proscribed? I favor the former, but stipulating that such Church be Virtuous, and with provision for diligence into unfamiliar gods, the latter might be practically possible."

The Lictor raises a hand.

"Delegate Stought?"

"This touches directly on a proposal I wished to present to the committee."

"I am Lawful Neutral, and, as many of you know, a survivor of the Asmodean regime. My chief concern during that regime was opposing demon cults. As beings of pure Chaotic Evil, demons are opposed both to Asmodeus's Lawful Evil and to the Lawful Good society we wish to build, hence why I was retained afterwards by the new Queen."

"I suspect you may not be aware, but there are a truly staggering number of demon cults in Cheliax. Over the course of the past fifteen years my Hellknights, working in close concert with local allies in law enforcement, have exposed and destroyed three hundred and forty-three demon cults, not counting ambiguous entities such as daemon cults and cults of Chaotic and Neutral gods."

"These demon cults, being both Chaotic and Evil, have no fear of lying, and they do not identify as demon cults. Most identify as 'new religions' worshipping foreign gods - often Good, otherwise simply 'very powerful' - previously unheard of in Cheliax, or as worshipping unusual aspects of various Good gods. They use this false guise as friends of the people to lure mortals into acts of lawless Evil which then provide blackmail material to use to force them into greater acts of evil, until such time as the cult is located and destroyed, having damned large numbers of subjects of the crown to the Abyss as well as caused considerable disruption to respect for the law, collaboration between church and state, mortal life and civilian infrastructure."

"With the shift of Geryon, Archdevil of Heresy, and Mephistopheles, Archdevil of Betrayal, from co-vassals of Asmodeus alongside the old queen to the new Queen's sworn enemy, this situation is expected to rapidly deteriorate."

"I therefore propose:

- First, that all churches acknowledged as friends of the state be officially registered and lists of these churches publicly placed in all cities, so the people of Cheliax can know that they are friends of the state.

- Second, that all temples and religious orders established by these churches be officially licensed by the state and inspected to ensure that they are not actually fronts for demon lords, daemon lords, archdevils or other similar entities opposed to the interests of the state.

- Third, that all other churches that have not achieved recognition be presumptively considered hostile to the state, until such time as they achieve recognition, on the grounds that most of them will be.

- Fourth, that procedures be formed to allow any not presently recognized by a church friendly to the state to petition Her Majesty the Queen to be recognized, with agents of Her Majesty inspecting their operations in foreign countries and interviewing their priests to confirm that they are, indeed, servants of powers opposed to the interests of Hell, the Abyss, and all the forces opposed to the Chelish nation.

"I have a list of churches here, all of which may be considered presumed friends of the state, with their epithets and holy symbols. Seven copies." She'll spread the stack across the table. (The list is Erastil, Folgrit, Iomedae, Gruhastha, Ragathiel, Torag, Chaldira, Jaidi, Kurgess, Sarenrae, Shelyn, Desna, sigh Cayden Cailean, double sigh Milani, Abadar, Irori, Pharasma and Gorum.)

Lluïsa nods approvingly as she takes notes, and happily peruses the useful list. Lictor Stought seems sensible!

(It takes maybe a week of law school at the late, unlamented Lodge to be numbed to things as intimidating as an armored Hellknight.)

"Overall the list looks good to me..." she'll overlook the exclusion of the Calistrians, she isn't too sure about them yet herself.

"...but is it not possible to make a general judgement based on ability to channel positive energy?  And this would suffice to at least ensure that neither the cleric nor God are evil, if not necessarily beneficent or virtuous?  And I would have thought channeling positive would take, at minimum, a carefully disguised mass cure light wounds to fake?  I wouldn't want to proscribe an Empyreal Lord if they happen to find a worthy chosen among the Chelish people?"

"Priests of Razmir can channel positive energy. Razmir is an Evil god, if he is a god not a mortal, and plausibly Geryon."

Alicia does not like the idea of letting the hellknights do witch hunts on clerics of empyreal lords!

"This doesn't cover everyone invited to the convention - Gozreh, for one. And I don't think we have so many good clerics we can afford to turn them aside just because their god isn't picking that many people. But channeling isn't proof that you're a cleric of a good or neutral god - I can channel positive, but my magic does not come from Lady Shelyn."

"Thank you both for that information."

What the fuck.  Well, she needs to apologize to Dia over an earlier paranoid argument, it is apparently easier to fake channels than she thought!  Two separate ways even!

"All self-proclaimed clerics of empyreal lords can be interviewed by blessed inquisitors of Lawful Good gods using truth-detection powers, and should they pass, the churches they establish of those empyreal lords can be added to the list of recognized churches."

Enric isn't sure about this. He knows there's villages closer to the forest that worship fairies or Gorzeh or some small angel or some other outsider. Sometimes they're actually worshiping a demon and doing all kinds of evil, he's heard stories, but sometimes there's no cleric of Erastil and a fairy is the only one who can make the fields grow. Plus even good clerics know better than to get their names added to a list, in case the crown goes back to evil and uses that list to find them.

"Maybe do it the other way around? Send people to investigate a cult first, shut it down second if it's evil. I know that means they get to do evil for longer, but that also means good clerics of small gods get to do good without being hunted?"

"I fear that under those circumstances the many minor cults of unlicensed gods will serve as effective cover for Geryon, Mephistopheles and all the demons of the Abyss, and we will therefore have a great number of Chelish people lead away from true Law into evil." What Lictor Rouen Stought wants is for the country to be Rahadoum, but that's not happening.

"How do you make sure that the cults aren't of benign gods? If you've done it so many times you must have a very quick way."

"Under the rule of Asmodeus, all cults not of Asmodeus or His servants were presumed hostile, and there was no attempt to preserve those who were His Good enemies instead of His Evil enemies. The standard procedure used outside the borders of Cheliax takes at least a day's work by a third-circle inquisitor to eliminate all magic on the suspected cleric and then interview that cleric under Zone of Truth, with several other tests also used of which the details are classified to prevent them leaking to hostile cultists. None used by Lastwall are physically harmful to the suspect."

"Even if all those people were actually demon cultists," which Nuria is not 100% convinced of, considering what was just said, "I can actually see why someone would think turning to a demon cult to get away from Asmodeus would seem like a good idea. I think assuming that demon cult problems would continue at remotely similar rates under the de Litran throne as under the Thrunes is...premature?" 

"And I don't want someone who's worshipping, hm, Bolka, or Black Butterfly, to have a hard time just because some inquisitor doesn't recognize the name, but maybe the crown should maintain a list of known churches in good standing, and then people who want to be particularly sure can just stick to those."

"To my knowledge, I do not possess copies of the Codes of Law of Lastwall or of other Realms beset by the Abyss such as Mendev, but I will, this evening, review the stacks once more, in case I find a useful Example therein," she pipes up.

"I'm reluctant to put my trust in a method too classified to know what it is, but even if you replace Zone of Truth with Abadar's that would only cover what they themself knew. When I first learned how to channel, I assumed I was a cleric, and could have testified as much under such a spell without issue. There are also plenty of spells that can defeat it, for more experienced operators - it seems like trading virtue for security without even actually obtaining it, and that's a trade I'd be skeptical of even if it worked."