No one really knows how the parties get to yes

If. We need somewhere both worth settling and defensible.

Farther south of the Feanorians might be the way to go for that, assuming they are trusted not to poison the waters at their source. The King just sighs when this is raised.

Magic can help with that, eventually, probably. It'd just take a long time to collect enough spirits and set them to purifying water for a hundred thousand people.

Feanorians would still have to be trusted not to poison the waters yet.

I don't think they will, he says. If they do, I think that's the point where we do in fact just kill them.

We'd have to.

Are we talking about the Feanorians, or some Feanorians, because if it's the second one then just anybody could start a war.

And if it's the former than Maitimo swears someone to secrecy, has them do it, kills them for it with all apologies to us. I'm not sure the right balance to strike.

Could ask him to swear. He's not going to not swear not to murder us all.

But of course he might not be calling the shots forever.

You think he's accurately reporting how much leverage he has with his father, or downplaying it so he can apologize later that he doesn't have the latitude to do things he doesn't want to do.

I'm not at all sure. Based on what I've reported here my guess is downplaying, but he could have any number of plots I don't know about.

An oath would at least mean we don't have to distinguish between 'Maitimo did it' and 'some random dissident did it' even if it doesn't rule out orders from someone else.

I think it's worth asking, if only to make it clear that if anything happens we'll want oaths from everyone in their camp who could conceivably be responsible. Am I right in thinking we wouldn't have to march up and fight them, at this point, we could just kill my brother and nephews from the air?

Only with either a clear shot. Maybe with a lot of collateral damage instead, depending on how clear it isn't.

Maitimo knows about the flight now, so he knows to consider himself under siege the minute he starts a war.

He shakes his head.

I don't think they'll do it, and anywhere else means no mountains between us and the Enemy. Let's tentatively plan for the valley here.

That puts us near some of the nomadic tribes Maitimo mentioned. I suspect he was exaggerating about the importance of the Noldor looking unified, but if we're in the valley it'll have to come up.

Alqualonde would indeed be a disaster to come out, but I'm not sure the Enemy won't accordingly see to it that it does.

Alqualonde, and the fact that we're worrying about them poisoning our water supply.

Though we're going to be conspicuously not the closest of allies; I don't know what he's realistically hoping for on the appearance of unity

People are going to be curious how we got this bad. The truth will make them not trust the Feanorians. Which maybe they shouldn't. But they also will probably trust us less. Elven civil relations really rarely deteriorate this far.

And saying that it was partly because of influence from the Enemy isn't likely to make anyone more sympathetic.

It will scare them further.

So they'll distrust us and there isn't much we can do about it. I'm a bit confused why Maitimo would think keeping up appearances would help, given that.

Are you equally confused if you replace 'why Maitimo would think' with 'why Maitimo would claim'?

Yes, it's not like he'd expect us not to know Alqualondë won't stay secret.

Maybe he wants a softened version of it which everyone can stick to?

Then he'd probably have suggested one. Oh well.

What about the hidden kingdom? Running into them is a lot less inevitable, so planning first contact isn't exactly pressing, but we might be able to find them.

I'm trying to think who'd have the strength and organization to hide a kingdom. Visiting them would be good, though we should assume the Feanorians are somehow getting any information we do and that complicates the benefits of learning more.