You were right about the arrest.

Well, that won't last longer than a week, so I'm not too bothered. By that specifically. Ugh. It should have occurred to me - in Valinor the Valar'd notice if you did this, we just don't usually have Maiar with such a big domain...

Wait, how would they notice? Are you saying they can see spirits in their domains? If so then any Maia with a domain could know magic is a thing. And any Vala.

No, not that, but at will they can see what we're up to...

Good. Could be worse.

What I was thinking is, Maitimo did turn out to be right about them always erring on the side of being conservative.

We should be sure to compliment him on his excellent people-skills-at-several-degrees-of-remove. Ugh. Is imprisonment one of those things where Elves have better endurance than humans because if so we should communicate with them soon...

Huh? No, it's the same as being in the room and able to leave, except without being able to leave. It could get really boring in a week but not dangerous.

Oh, good.

Plus we'd have decided on something before then anyway.

I think if we do explain magic, Melian will pay attention to the karma thing and not spread it. What I'm curious about is, what happens if we give her magic.

Yeah, good question. I don't think she'd do anything dramatic with it - I'm almost optimistic she'd just make Doriath more - Doriath....

I honestly think she might be able to make Doriath impregnable against the Enemy and everything he has to throw at it.

Maybe that'll earn us some good will.

And it would be, you know, good in its own right.

Yep.

She could also make it actually hidden if they decide to keep us out. Still worth it. 

The other problem is we can't count on her not telling the Valar.

...point. Uh, the Valar might do really weird stuff...

Weird how?

If they could expect the universe into working differently, they're really - well, they're a lot more powerful than Melian and you saw her - and they have strong expectations about right and wrong, really strong, though at least theirs are better than the existing ones...

So, technically an improvement. Even if it turns out to foreclose actually fixing things.

Would the Valar want magic if they knew about it? I'd rather they not know, but if they do it doesn't actively hurt anything.

They'd want to regulate it. No idea if they'd want that to involve practicing it. Probably varies by Vala, they might get Eru's input.

So if we tell Melian they eventually do something completely unpredictable, regardless of whether she awakens. Probably slowly, though.

It'll definitely be Years, probably longer than that.

I think we might have to. It's almost either that or we escape.

Besides, this way we might get to see what happens if a powerful Maia who the world is already in the habit of listening to becomes a practitioner. Potentially important information.

Yeah, good point. Also how were you expecting we escape, making them not notice we're here doesn't help with the door...

Hadn't thought it through, but they don't know what we've got. I'd be surprised if everything we could think of is blocked. In the extreme case we, um, put the door back.

We could describe making Doriath invulnerable as requiring them to compromise on the isolation. It's true enough that it's there to exaggerate. Do you think that'd change her mind about wanting it?

I tentatively expect so? Maiar are so hard to predict...

Yeah. I was hoping we'd get an impenetrable Doriath and them still interacting with us.