He laughs for a little while. "Yeah, definitely not that. Not Cheliax, at least. I think the other nations respect exit rights more. For citizens, at least. Do you have slavery in your world? Cheliax is run on the backs of slaves. Indeed, all nations in the Inner Sea have legal slavery save for the River Kingdoms, Andoran, and Absalom.

Well, if I was left to my own devices, I'd use enchantments to ensure loyalty rather than do the whole rigmarole with memory erasure. Conrad dearest was the one that asked me to develop the memory erasure spell, and he asked very nicely. So I did it." His face becomes more neutral. "There are some people who left who I'd rather not have."

"It's not a common spell. Right, I should explain how the circle system works." He glances over at the counter, then looks back at Jenwy. "Magic is based on energy shaped in a particular way. The shape of magic is dependent on the number of 'holes' it has. The more holes, the more energy and complexity it can support, but likewise, the harder it is to prepare. We refer to the 'holes' as 'circles', although they're not exactly circles when you look at them.

Wizards, and indeed, all spellcasters, are sorted based on the highest circle of spell they can cast. This is dependent on their channeling capacity: how much energy they can pour into a spell. Being too weak means that you won't be able to infuse the manifold with energy; being too dumb, in the case of wizards, means that you'll lack the capacity for visualization necessary to keep the entire spellform in your mind. Modify Memory is not only a fourth-circle spell, it is also a bard-only spell, and bards are rarer than wizards."

Then, to Areli, "Tell me about modern Ev. What's it like? I'm surprised all of your nations have the same respect for exit rights. I suppose that's the sort of thing that's feasible when you don't have magic. A ninth-circle wizard like myself can slaughter a battalion a day or more – a world without magic seems like it would have...less power inequality."

"Good - er, I'm so glad you did the memory erasing, then.  Enchantments sound even worse.

"We have slavery, but not like that.  My nation doesn't have slavery at all - I made sure to choose one that didn't have it.  But there're some nations where someone can sell himself into slavery for debt or be sentenced to slavery for a crime, and that can go disturbing places...  But Cheliax sounds so much worse!"

She shakes her head.  "Still, we don't have every country respecting exit rights.  Just last year I was trying to fight one theocracy that had a border-guard to keep people in.  Then there're other nations - territorial nations - that tell people not to leave even if they won't actually drag you away from the border.  But most nations will."

"Jenwy's been looking at the worst parts of Ev," Areli adds.

(She pokes him with her elbow.)

He flashes her a quick grin, and pokes her back with his elbow.  "Yes, I'll make the value-judgment here.  Even History-Monks can do that when we really want to.  We just need to acknowledge when things are complicated... so yes, if you grant all the Slatar Theocracy's theological premises, then keeping people from leaving will eventually most likely be to their benefit.  But I do not grant that, as you can see from how I'm not there."

"Anyway," he continues, turning back to Damian, "let me tell you about the not-worst parts of Ev.  We don't have magic, but we have machines to... well, do a lot of things.  Take stuff places, heat and cool water, purify water, cook food, talk to people over long distances, print books, and more.  And most people live in cities now, I think maybe three out of every four people in the more advanced parts of the world?

"Jenwy's been talking about small wars, but they've stayed small.  There was one big war in the last century, and I think that was because the Barren-Power movement inherently praised fighting to a greater degree than any other utopian ideology, so it had so many more supporters ready to fight... but I could talk about that for far too long, and I'm not sure whether you'll be praising us for so much peace or criticizing us for so much war?  Anyway, yeah, without magic, one person who wants to kill people can't do it to a large scale before other people stop him.  

"Politically, most of Ev has several nations in each territory, and everyone can choose which nation to belong to.  There's a territorial government that establishes standards for things between people of different nations, makes sure everyone can leave, and makes sure nobody can skip out on honest responsibilities.  That last one can get a little complicated with things like debt-slavery, of course."