A youngish man steps in the door, blinks, and looks around in confusion.

"Oh, I didn't think there was a restaurant here -- huh, an isekai-themed restaurant?"

(He's wearing a suit vest over a collared shirt, with a sash on top of it that they might guess signifies something.  There's a nametag on his vest saying "Areli, Hist. Lector.")

The first man is wearing an extravagant and ridiculously impractical getup. He's wearing long deep purple robes with a glittering cape, a tiara with amethyst gems, rings on both his hands, a leather belt with a large metal buckle, earrings, a necklace, and a bag. Still, there's the sense that all of these things were put on with care – despite its ostentatiousness, all of the elements merge into a coherent outfit. The man clearly has some sense for fashion, at least. He looks like some sort of fantasy royal.

He's sipping on a cup of wine and generally looks pleased with himself.

The other man does not look pleased with himself. He looks distinctly annoyed, or perhaps very tired. He's wearing similarly ridiculous jewelry like the other man, plus the cape, but his clothing seems more practical. He's wearing a white shirt with gray pants underneath the overly ornate items. Unlike the other person, he either has no sense for fashion, or simply doesn't care about it at all. The colors and patterns are all mismatched – the simplicity of his clothes clash with the extravagance of the accessories.

"Oh, I didn't notice that there's another person now. Nice clothes, where did you get them? They look like they were made by a good tailor." He takes another sip of his wine.

"Hello, Areli Hist Lector. Wait, no, that's a title, isn't it? Should I call you Areli, then? My name's Damian."

"Tailor?" he repeats with confusion.  "I didn't go for that - just got them off the shelf at the store."

He looks around, suddenly wondering if he's intruding on a LARP and expected to be in character.  But they didn't say so.  And it wouldn't change what he'd say next anyway, unless they're LARPing something from really ancient history before the History-Monks were founded.

"Of course it's the title."  He nods his head deeply, but quickly as if it's a matter of ceremony.  "Areli Eddin, Lector in the Order of History-Monks."  He taps his sash. 

Off the shelf? Well, he could have gone to a tailor and picked out rejected or refurbished clothes and found one that fit him...but that would still imply that there was a tailor at the beginning of it.

"Yes, tailor. As in: who made it? Or is it a secret?" He casts a side-eye glance at Areli and smirks.

"I see. It is a pleasure to meet you. History monks? How interesting!" He claps his hands. "I suppose anyone I meet would be interesting – you are from outside Pharasma's Creation, yes? Pharasma doesn't exist where you are?"

Pharasma?  He's never heard of any god(dess?) named Pharasma.  He can't remember any utopia-builder by that name either, not that anyone would really need to check that the city of Niota is outside of whatever utopian project a Pharasma might've created - nor would anyone even fake being surprised at the Worldwide Order of History-Monks -

"No, I've never heard of... her?... and I'm definitely interested.  Though if it's a game, tonight might not be -"  No, wait, Jenwy would probably be interested too.  "- actually, it might work after all.  And..."

"... If you're really from another world that's never heard of the Order of History-Monks and still makes clothes with individual tailors, I'm very interested!"

Sip.

"Where are you from? It won't be a place I know, but it's still good to know. Bar – the bar can talk, by the way, via napkin – said that this bar connects universes. Not planes, but universes. Therefore, there would be other customers who are from outside Pharasma's Creation here. Pharasma is the goddess who created our universe. The planet we live in is called Golarion, the third from the sun. What about you?"

"We call our planet World, or sometimes Ev.  It's the third from its sun too... interesting coincidence; I wonder if the Astronomy-Monks would make something of it?  But, excuse me a moment..."

He steps up to the bar.  (He's already forgotten Damian's name, or he might've used it.)

"Excuse me, Bar?  I know my friend Jenwy would love to meet you - she's just a little ways outside of the door I guess you borrowed; if I get her, can we come back here?"

A napkin suddenly appears on the counter, with neat handwriting. Very neat.

:Yes, provided she is nearby. Time does not pass in your world while you are here.:

Areli starts at the suddenly-appearing napkin.  There's magic here, too!  Or at least far-tech-magic!

"I'm getting my friend Jenwy," he says.  "She wouldn't miss a whole new universe for anything!"

He runs for the door, throws it open, and calls into the off-white-painted hallway that they can see beyond it, "HEY JENWY!  COME QUICK!  HUGE NEWS!"

(He almost said "Real Worldgate," but then he thought better of it; that'd probably get literally everyone still hanging around the club hall.)

It's about a minute before Jenwy comes around the corner.  She's wearing a yellow dress with lace trim, and a nametag which - like Areli's - seems designed to go with the dress.  There's no title on it, just "Jenwy Burell."

"What's up?" she says.  "Did you find a new project, or a utopia, or did Velek suddenly recant, or...?"

^{"The door's now a worldgate. Really."}

Jenwy rushes into the bar.

Okay, finding a new universe is interesting but not that interesting: Plane Shift is a thing. He knows Osirion runs guided tours to Axis for mortals. Still, he smiles when the new person comes into the bar. Clearly she's having a great time.

"Hello, Jenwy. Jenwy Burell, I see. Are you part of the same order as your friend?" Sip. He runs out, and asks Bar to refill. He places ten gold coins on the bar and the coins disappear, replaced by a wine bottle, from which he pours himself a new glass. 

"No - I wouldn't join the History-Monks for anything.  I don't want to just watch things --"

She instantly falls silent when the gold disappears and the wine appears.  "Magic?  Can we do that too, or is it just a Bar thing?"

"Er, I don't think so. Bar's magic is different from ours. Do you not have magic in your world? Actually...what gods do you have in your world? Do you have gods at all?"

His face at first shows confusion, and then interest. The other man seems interested too, and the scowl on his face abates.

"No, no magic at all!  And our God hasn't done anything big in ages and ages!"

"The last thing usually agreed to have been Divine intervention was the Shift, almost fifteen hundred years ago, a change in the personalities of people born after then...  But that was before really clear records; there're some people who deny it was a real change.  And there're other people who deny that any god even exists.

"Your... gods?  More than one of them?... are more active?"

"Yes, many. Several dozen at least. If you count all deities, and not just those with full divinity, then the number is up in the hundreds. Deities are capable of granting divine magic to their clergy. I am not that – the both of us are wizards, who cast arcane magic. Arcane magic comes from yourself." He makes an exasperated expression. "...usually. Witches are an exception. It's weird. Anyway, I wanted to ask, because the prevailing theory in our world is that divine magic came first, and that arcane magic was developed as a way to mimic it. If you do not have arcane magic, and your god does not grant divine magic, then that's evidence for that theory.

I'm so sorry that your world doesn't have magic. I can't even teach you any. Bar won't let me. You're permitted to demonstrate the use or functions of things here, but not explain how to derive them. It has to do with – the impact it would have on the other person's world." Sip. He seems genuinely saddened.

Jenwy can deal with this, though!  She's only read a hundred or more books where magic exists but the protagonist can't do magic herself!

"Would we even be able to do arcane magic in Ev?  Or would it be just people in your world?  If it's from your souls, that's probably the same - if you're human?  But if it's from your bodies, maybe it's from something about living in your world..."

"Probably. Magic still works even in other planes, unless it's a dead magic plane. And this place, which is outside Pharasma's Creation, still permits us to cast. Likely, arcane magic would work in Ev, provided you managed to figure it out somehow, someday.

It's...a little bit of both. I'm not sure, myself. I don't think it has anything to do with our bodies, though. Many nonhumans are able to cast arcane magic in our world. Though I suppose that doesn't negate the hypothesis that it has something to do with...the environment we were exposed in while we were young as a prerequisite for casting, or something like that.

Don't feel too bad. Even if I could have taught you, my price would probably be too much for you to afford. I'm a ninth-circle wizard – thousands of novice wizards and even experienced wizards would kill their parents and their grandparents for a chance to apprentice under me." He sounds very proud and haughty about it.

The other man, who had been thus far keeping silent, sighs. His voice is deep and level, unlike Damian's expressive voice.

"Come on, Damian. Don't torment them any more than they already are. It's clear the woman – er, Jenwy – really wants to learn magic."

Then, to her, "I am sympathetic to your plight."

"Thanks."  She sighs.  She's not sure whether it'd be more annoying if magic did theoretically work in Ev, or if it didn't.  Well, the worldgate door had to be able to open there at least...

Jenwy shakes her head and takes some paper money out of a pocket in her dress.  "What're your names?  And... do I need to do anything special, or can the bar read my mind about what drink?"  Just in case it can, as she sets the money on the counter, she's clearly picturing a strawberry soda.

He snorts. "Fine."

"The handsome man beside me is Conrad. I am Damian. Yes, you need to speak aloud – Bar will tell you what the price of your order is in your local currency. You'll be asked to pay an amount of money similar to the amount you'd spend if you ate it where you lived, or an estimate thereof. It can't read your mind, unlike me."

:What order would you like? And yes, as he says, I have no mind-reading capability. Please state your order audibly, or write it down on this napkin.: Bar conjures a ballpoint pen if Jenwy would prefer to write her order.

Jenwy takes up the conjured pen and rolls it over in her fingers, but then says aloud, "One strawberry soda, please - and one apple soda for Areli!"

(She puts another bill on the bar just in case, taking the total clearly above what those two sodas would cost in Ev, even in the small remote town where she'd recently lived.)

Bar disappears the bills and in the next moment conjures change and the two sodas in fancy glass mugs, similar to that of beer, with a straw for each of them. The change indicates that the price is above the price from Jenwy's town, but only by a little.

:Enjoy!:

"Soda. I don't think I've heard of that before. Wait. Soda. Soda. Oh, it's sparkling water with fruit juice? I think I'll have one too." He sets aside his wine bottle and asks for a strawberry soda as well, putting down more gold coins. 

Bar only takes one, and now there's another strawberry soda on the table.

"Thanks, Jenwy."

Areli takes his soda, and takes a small sip and then a larger mouthful.  It tastes almost like at home.  He's not sure whether he's imagining the additional magic flavor.

"Yeah, that's pretty much what soda is, at the core."  He actually looks over Damian's wine bottle for the first time.  "Huh, you actually asked for wine?  I had it once, but I don't think people have drunk it that often since a little after the Shift.  Guess this might support Colbina's theory about the Shift helping it die out."

He sips the soda. "Wow, that's good. It tastes...a little weird, though. It tastes like strawberries, but not like strawberries. There's something...off about it. Still good, though. 

Why not? Wine's great." He looks mildly offended. "It is my preferred alcoholic beverage. Maybe you just haven't had the good stuff. I'll let you have some of mine if you want. It rivals Cheliax's wines – Cheliax is my home country.

Is mind reading common where you live?"

"Sure, I'll try some.

"And no - we don't have mind reading at all.  We'd call that magic; don't you?  In fact, if magic's normal for you, how do you figure out what is magic and what isn't?"

"Ah, I see. I made a little comment about reading minds and Jenwy didn't react to it, so I had assumed it was common. Yes, it's magic to us too – the spell is called Detect Thoughts. That's the most common version, but there's also Detect Desires and Detect Anxieties. They're more specialized.

We figure out what stuff is magic depending on whether it produces an aura under Detect Magic. Alternatively, whether the effect or item stops functioning if put in an antimagic field, although that's a more extreme form of detection."

Then, to Bar: "Bar, how do you feel about divination spells? Are they fine to cast?"

:Divination spells are fine. I do not make a distinction between exotic and mundane forms of obtaining information about patrons – such as sight – so long as said sensing is entirely passive and does not affect the other person. A special exception is made for echolocation provided that the sounds emitted are not disruptive.

You must obtain the target's informed consent in order to apply any sort of effect on them. However, mind reading does not require this since it is divination as per the above definition, and so is an exception – you do not need to obtain a person's consent to look at them or to hear the sounds they emit. However, I highly suggest still obtaining informed consent because most people see their minds as private, and attempts to try to sense their thoughts are very likely to be interpreted as rude.:

"But do you know that magic detection and antimagic field really are getting all the things that we'd call magic?  And yes, sure, read my mind!"

Jenwy's thinking about a novel she read last year where some magical Elves thought that a whole lot of their magic was perfectly natural and not magic at all... until they got to another world where it didn't work.  In the back of her mind is floating the idea that she'd like to try some of that wine too, and she's forlornly hoping it'll be some magical potion.

He says a few words – which sound like just syllables without meaning – and gestures with his hands and arms. Detect Thoughts.

"I suppose not. But at that point, it's just arguing over details. Defining magic as that which shows up to Detect Magic and is nullified by Antimagic Field is a useful definition. Magic is simply a particular art that lets you affect the world. There are many things that can replicate what magic does, but which are unaffected by the two spells.

Elves cast the same magic we humans do. Wait, do you have elves in your world too? Or is it a case where it's just the same name? But no, you said it was a novel, so...elves are fictional in your world? Sadly, the wine is not a magical potion. I could cast Tears to Wine on it and make it a magical potion that will temporarily make you smarter – although in that case I should cast it on dirty water. Sadly, I don't have that prepared, and it would take a quarter hour to prepare it...if Bar will even let me cast the spell. Presumably making alcoholic drinks will undercut them."

:It is prohibited to bring outside food and drink. But...if you were to buy regular water on me and cast the spell on it, then I would rule that it is fine. You bought the water and so are free to do with it as you wish, and since the water was bought from me, it isn't 'outside'. Frankly, I'm not exactly pleased with this ruling – since it does undercut me – but I lean towards permitting rather than forbidding, and I can't see a company rule that lets me forbid it without special pleading:

"Elves are just fictional for us - what're the real elves like?"

"Hm. They live very long. Hundreds of years. Tall and thin. Not very strong. Very elegant and graceful. Pointed ears and weirdly shaped eyes, with huge irises. They usually live in their own societies apart from humans."

He makes a clicking sound with his tongue. "Admittedly, the two of us are not humans. We were humans, but not anymore. Being a human sucks – your lifespan is so short. We adopt our old human forms out of habit.

We're demons now." He smiles.

A whole lot of religious doctrine and speculation about demons floods through Jenwy's mind, and she can't help jumping back a bit.

But they don't usually (if ever) show up visibly, and this bar really doesn't look like any scheme they'd be playing.  It's not like they've tried to get her to do anything evil.

"I really hope that 'demon' doesn't mean the same thing to you as it sounds like to us?"

"I don't know – your thoughts went by too quickly for me to take in. Demons, in our world, are Chaotic Evil outsiders. And no, I'm not trying to get you to do anything Evil. I'd be fine with talking to you about that, though." He smiles again.

"I should say, for Bar's sake, that Bar is not affiliated with us.

In Conrad's case, he has an item that lets him change his form. For me, the type of demon I am can shift form at will."

:I confirm that we have no formal relationship – it is their first time here.:

Areli was shocked for a moment too, but he caught himself before doing anything more than staring, and started thinking. 

If he can trust them about anything they've said, he should be able to trust them about that.  And if he can't trust them about anything... well, why would they be admitting they're demons?  And they really don't sound like the sort of demons that Evite religion talks about.

He squeezes Jenwy's hand.

"I'll trust you," he says aloud to Conrad and Damian.  "If the wine's still on offer, I'll try some?"

If Areli trusts they're something else going by the same name as "demons," she'll trust them too.

"Of course. Bar, would you kindly produce a glass for dear Areli?"

A glass identical to Damian's appears on the table. Extra glasses are free!

"Here you go," he says, pouring some out and pushing it over to Areli. "Cheers." He raises his glass and drinks.

"We don't talk about being demons for obvious reasons. I'm surprised you took it well. Many people don't, because demons are Chaotic Evil. So are we – you have to be to become one. Right, your religion is different and you don't have Pharasma. Where we're from, mortals are sorted into nine afterlives based on their actions, thoughts, and philosophies in life. They are judged on two axes: Good-Evil and Law-Chaos, with a Neutral option for each. That's nine combinations, each of which is called an 'alignment'.

You probably don't have that concept since you don't have a god enforcing it. We used to be Lawful Evil, but turned away from it. Alignment is baked into the world: there are spells that specifically target one alignment or another, such as Shard of Chaos or Protection from Good."

"You call that taking it well!?"

Jenwy is thinking that things in Ev could use more chaos, if "chaos" is translating better than "demon."  But maybe the magical world they're from (did she hear the name?) is different.

"And why are you proudly proclaiming yourselves Evil?  Without even trying to pretend it's Good?"

"She has a point.  I would've thought everyone agreed that Evil is... well, bad.  Or does Pharasma give the word some other sort of meaning?"

As he's speaking, he swishes the wine around a bit in the glass.  Then he sniffs it, and takes a small swallow.

He smiles brightly. "Yes. Most people would run away or attack us. As for your thoughts, 'chaos' represents refusing to be bound by others, whether in terms of law, precedent, or tradition, free will, and preferring options that leave other paths open. That's a very very simplified view of it – I'm not a cleric.

Well, that's because there's no point in hiding it. We're strong enough to show up to Detect Evil and Detect Chaos: there are spells you can use to detect others' alignments, although only if they're strong enough. And besides, we don't consider being Evil to be bad, otherwise, we wouldn't be Evil. Well, bad for others, I guess. Not for us. I'm not sure if Pharasma's definition is different from yours. Evil actions are things like abortion, killing others – though it depends on who you kill, stealing – although that is Chaotic too, raping, things like that. Basically, not treating others as moral patients.

Admittedly, we use Rings of Mind Shielding to protect us from alignment detection spells, but only when we travel to cities to go shopping. There's no reason to hide here, though, and you can be sure that no harm will come to you, because Bar will kick us out if we try anything like that. We've been talking to it for a while before you came in."

Then, to Areli, "Do you like the wine?"

"And you're fine with being bad for others and doing all those things to them!?  That's worse than any of the tyrants - they at least thought they were doing the right thing!"

She's thinking that, so far, Pharasma's categorizing evil quite correctly.  What she's doing about it is another question.

(She tries to squelch her remembering how she recently helped try to overthrow one of those tyrants who thought they were doing the right thing but was actually trying to micromanage everyone in a religious failed-utopia.  At least she escaped from the failed attempt.)

"It tastes... cleaner and richer than the wine from home I tried that once.  But it's still... dryer than juice or soda, I guess I'd call it?"

He takes another sip, but then sets the glass back down.  "I guess it's easier to see how someone likes wine with this than with the varieties from Ev.  Especially if you don't mind getting drunk - does Pharasma count that as Chaotic?"

"No, see, that's worse, because they're not honest. You know where you stand with us, and we will make it clear if we want something. It's very difficult to negotiate with someone who thinks they have your interests at heart, but actually don't. I refrain from acting on behalf of others for this reason." He looks displeased.

"Religious failed-utopia. Sounds like Cheliax. Although it wasn't meant to be a utopia, hah. It's Lawful Evil, ruled by a Lawful Evil god, Asmodeus. We were born there and raised Lawful Evil, but then left after serving our term of military service. More precisely, Conrad finished his and left, and I tagged along. I was also in the military, but I wasn't bound by contract."

To Areli: "Mmhmm. It has that astringent feeling. If your world doesn't have many people who drink wine, then there probably aren't enough customers for there to be great winemakers. Although that presents a chicken-and-egg problem, since not having great wine will make people not want to buy it. How tragic.

No, Pharasma is Neutral. True Neutral."

Jenwy is looking (and feeling) displeased too, but she reluctantly nods back at Conrad.  "Yeah, it's really hard to get those utopian tyrants to work with you on anything.  If you're honest...  But I've heard that lying is Evil?  And it feels Chaotic too... so why're you not lying about things?"

She adds:  "What was it like being in Cheliax actually ruled by a god?  And how easy was it to get out?"

Areli nods.  "Some of Ev's utopian attempts will let anyone out if you want to get out.  Others won't because they don't want you to leave and do things they call Evil.  And then there're a lot all along the spectrum...  Most of them will still let us History-Monks in and out, because we've taken oaths to record things correctly and as completely as practicable.  I haven't made use of that yet - I'm just a Lector - but I'm hoping to.

"And yes, chicken and egg.  A problem, if you know you like good wine.  The worse problem is that I hear plants change over generations, so even if someone wanted to look up the old descriptions of good winemaking and redo it all on his own as a Project... he couldn't.

"Say, Bar, I'm guessing that if I wanted to bring home some wine grape cuttings, you wouldn't let me?"

"Lying is complicated. It's most likely but not always Chaotic, and tends toward but is not necessarily Evil. Pharasma also takes into account your intentions and philosophies. Of the nine alignments, Lawful Good is the least likely to lie. Chaotic Evil often lies, but it's compatible with being honest. Like us." He smiles slightly.

"Chaotic Good will lie if they feel that it's in the best interests of others, and Lawful Evil will lie unless they've specifically contracted to be truthful. We're not lying about things because there's no reason to. Telling you the truth won't hurt us – you cannot directly harm us, not just because few things can harm us meaningfully, but because Bar will eject you if you try – and neither can you go to our world through our door. Chaotic Evil is often stereotypically portrayed as being stupid which is...okay, I see why people might see that – Chaotic Evil people often are stupid – but that's not necessarily true. Also...being Evil doesn't mean you have to do Evil all the time, just that, on the balance, you are significantly more Evil than you are Good. It's different with Law and Chaos – that's more complicated and has to do with how promises and oaths work. You can balance Evil by doing Good, and vice versa. To an extent.

Asmodeus is the god of tyranny, slavery, compacts, and pride. The both of us were wizard students, and wizard students usually live sheltered lives learning only magic day in and day out. I haven't visited Cheliax since I left, so I'm not sure how a commoner would live. With regard to wizard students specifically, I can tell you about life in Ostenso Wizarding Academy, I suppose. We went there for six years: from twelve through eighteen. There were lots of whippings if you didn't do well. I whipped lots of people – the top student gets the privilege. At the time I was there, I thought that was normal – it's only after I left that I figured out that most schools don't do that. It's been a long time since I reminisced about that, and I don't usually talk about that to others, so I'm not sure what sort of things you would want to hear about.

It was more difficult and more easy than you imagine. It's technically legal to enter and leave Cheliax if you're a free citizen, but in practice, it's impossible. Inquisitors have the legal power to detain anyone indefinitely for questioning, which means that trying to cross the border will usually lead you into a dungeon. At the time, the both of us were fourth-circle wizards, so we were able to cross the border through creative use of magic."

:Sadly not. You also cannot bring items bought from me to your home world.:

"A more fun question that considering Asmodeus: what sort of fiction exists in your world concerning magic? Since your world doesn't have any. Perhaps we can try replicating that magic with ours. Bar has told us that it's permitted to cast direct-effect magic so long as the target has informed consent, and all effects are dispelled, dismissed, or otherwise deactivated before they leave. Bar, do you have a wide open space that we could use?"

:Yes. That way: an arrow is on the napkin pointing to a door :leads to the courtyard. Feel free to go there if you want to have an outdoor ambiance. There is another counter there that is an extension of me, and I can freely move your drinks and other items on this counter to that one if you want to move.

Oh, and another fun thing is that I'm Lawful Neutral too, apparently. I don't usually interject in conversations, but Damian cast alignment detection spells on me and figured that out. Not that it matters for me, but that's rather interesting to know.:

Both Areli and Jenwy are looking horrified at the description of the whippings.  Jenwy is also upset at the Inquisitors, but Areli is more sad than upset there.

"Ah, so it isn't that you actually value being Evil; it's that you're just willing to be Evil if it makes sense for you.  I've read books from some people who were like that - usually they had unusual religious beliefs, but I suppose actually having multiple gods who do miracles all the time must make things really different there.  Are you happy about the afterlife you're expecting?"

Jenwy is happy to move on to more magic!

"We've got books about all sorts of magic!  There's one genre that has more small-scale magic, mostly moving small objects and illusions and lie-detection and sometimes telepathy.  And then there's another genre that has worldgates and space-folding and person-animals and usually they've got bigger things like creating objects too.  And there's another genre where - oh, but there're all sorts of aesthetics that matter, especially if you're trying to duplicate the magic, and they vary a whole lot from author to author, but you might need to be wearing certain clothes or dancing your fingers or brading your hair in some certain ways - or just dancing, or of course singing...

"Oh, how about the oath magic from the Riverwild series?  You join hands in a circle and sing the oath you're making, and rainbow cords rise into the air and tie themselves together around all of you, and a real gem forms in the middle of your circle.  The cords vanish when the song ends, but the gem stays, and the oath magically binds you until the gem is smashed."

"Well...I suppose I value being Evil in the sense that I'm – I'm very hedonistic, and there are particular pleasures which are impossible to obtain without harming someone. Usually because it is in the harming that the pleasure is derived. Conrad," he looks at him, "used to be more hotheaded and vindictive with his use of his power. He mentions whipping fellow students matter-of-factly, but you should have seen the delight on his face when he did it." He laughs for a little bit. Conrad makes an exasperated face and rolls his eyes, looking away.

"Wizards are usually weak, but Conrad was very strong for a wizard – he was basically the only one who exercised, hah. Suffice it to say that his strikes were particularly forceful. The usual punishments for wizard students is whipping followed by flushing with brine, but senior students could cast spells, so we would use Acid Splash, or, if you wanted to be 'gentle'," he mimes quote marks in the air, "Mage Hand. During our military service, Touch of Combustion was very popular – every Security wizard had it in their spellbook.

Sadly, he's become more calm and pragmatic in his old age. Absolutely disappointing." His face suddenly stiffens like that of a disapproving father, before it reverts back to his usual, perpetually amused expression.

"The afterlife situation is a little problematic. The Chaotic Evil afterlife is the Abyss, which is generally awful, but we're not sure what will happen to us. We're demons now, and demons are immortal. Not immune to dying, mind you, but that we simply do not age and hence die of old age. The thing is, demons are considered 'outsiders' – denizens of the Outer Planes – and outsiders have their souls fused with their bodies. When outsiders die, their soul doesn't go anywhere. They can't be raised by the usual revivification spells, but rather, can only be raised using Wish. However, that's the state for regular outsiders who were once mortals who died, got judged and assigned an afterlife, and then became outsiders over the course of many years by absorbing the planar energies. We didn't go through that – we became demons by means of ritual magic. Who knows.

Our current plan is to see whether we can become gods ourselves. Initially, our goal was simply to become demons so as to become immortal – becoming a lich is so passé – but in our research, we found out about a Tian Xia god who was initially a rat, who ascended by eating a god's corpse. Currently, there's a group of adventurers which are fighting Deskari, a demon lord, and we're...sort of helping them. We're seeing whether we might be able to ascend by killing him – which is the goal of the adventurers – and then eating him. We'll see if it works. Hopefully yes." He holds out both his hands and crosses his fingers.

"You know what, let's talk magic instead. How about we go outside? We have moving small objects, illusions, lie detection, telepathy, teleportation, transmutation of animals into persons, and temporary object creation. We do not have magic derived from aesthetics – our magic is based on topology and mathematics. Bards can cast spells from performance art, but we're not bards. Oath magic isn't a thing, but there is magic for forcing someone to take or not take some action.

I can demonstrate some but not all of the spells. Some spells simply cannot be cast by the form of magic wizards use, and some spells I don't have in my spellbook. And I cannot demonstrate all my spells to you, because we are only able to cast a certain number of spells per day. Actually, I'm not sure if my spells will refresh here. Will they, Bar? I'm pretty sure they would – sleeping in a Golarian timeless demiplane will restore my slots – but I want to be sure. If not, then I'll only cast cantrips for you."

:Although time does not pass in your world while you are here, time still passes normally for you. With regard to spellcasters, I have found that all magic-users which have a limited quantity of magical energy to expend find that their magical energy refills normally if only time and sleep are necessary to recover said energy. I am quite sure that your 'spell slots' will refresh if you spend a day here.:

When he mentions magic for forcing actions, Jenwy feels a bit frustrated that she can't feel anything from the mind-reading spell.

"Oh, math magic!  We've got that too - not as common, but I've read a few books with it.  They usually go into the magic-science genre, where magic can be studied in every detail and you can make up magic devices to sort of take the place of all the machines in the real world - excuse me, in Ev - and advance the art of magic like science and technology.

"How do magic devices work in your world?

"I wasn't expecting you to really do an oath ritual; you're Chaotic after all!  But if it doesn't work the same way, can you at least fake it... how temporary are those temporary conjured objects?"

He adjusts his position on the stool.

"What's science? Bar's translation effect isn't helping me. Magic devices work by means of enchanted spellsilver. Spellsilver is a rare metal that is able to hold and stabilize magic. By infusing spellsilver on an item, you can place a permanent spell on it that, depending on the spell used, produces magic effects. We are wearing many magic items right now." He taps his cape, belt, tiara-crown-band-thing, amulet, rings, and the sheath on his hip.

"It depends. Many conjuration and evocation spells produce some sort of effect that dissipates after some time, usually in minutes. However, if we consider 'creation' strictly, then it depends on what you're conjuring. Minor Creation can create nonliving vegetable matter for several hours. Major Creation can create mineral matter too, but for a shorter duration. The amount of time the matter lasts depends on how strong you are as a caster – for us, it lasts more than half the day. If you have matter that is not conjured, you can instantly create an item using it via Fabricate, but it requires that you are capable of holding the full form and function of the item in question in your head at once. That's permanent."

He laughs. "Yes, that's what makes Detect Thoughts so devious. If you had blocked it, there's a chance that you might notice a prying sensation. Many spells can be resisted in some way that negates or weakens their effect. If you want, I can cast Lesser Geas on you. The spell requires that you explicitly state what conditions the target must fulfill, and I'll let you decide what conditions you want. You can have it be as mundane as 'walk in a circle three times', or something. Though, of course, I use different wordings normally.

It is enchantment magic, which is my specialty. Conrad's specialty is transmutation. More basic magic lessons for you: there are eight or nine schools of magic, depending on how you count. There is abjuration, conjuration, divination, enchantment, evocation, necromancy, illusion, transmutation, and universal. Many wizards specialize in one school, though some decide to be universalists and do not specialize. There are only five universal spells, and they do not belong to any school: Prestidigitation, Arcane Mark, Permanency, Limited Wish, and Wish."

"You don't have science?"  Areli grins.  This's starting to sound like another genre of books, where someone's isekaied to another world and opens up their minds to science and works out the whole industrial infrastructure from scratch.

"Science is figuring out how the world works without magic and then using that to figure out how to get it to do what you want without magic.  You might figure out how to build better ships, or better waterwheels, or use the waterwheels to turn machines that will sew cloth for you -- you do have waterwheels, right?  That work without any magic?  Anyway, science is figuring out things like exactly how the water turns the waterwheel, so you can predict how other sorts of waterwheel will work without actually having to build all of them.

"And in your world" (Areli's forgotten the name "Golarion" too), "I hope people have been doing science with figuring out how spellsilver works, so they can predict how other sorts of magical device will work even before they make them?

"... and how does spellsilver work, by the way?"

Jenwy would really like to touch one of their magical devices.  A moment later, she realizes that she doesn't even need to put the wish into words.

(Mindreading is convenient, she thinks!)

And yes, she'd like to feel a Geas... Something simple but not too simple; quick but not too quick so she can feel it.  And this part she'd better speak aloud so Areli can hear and check it over; that  part's in so many novels.  "Can you Geas me to dance a few steps of a waltz, even though you don't know the dance?"

"What's an isekai? I heard you say it too when you came in. Yes, we have waterwheels for milling and such. I'm not sure why you would have a specific word for that. That just sounds like technology, or engineering, or...figuring stuff out. Thinking.

You can predict how a magical device will work from the spellform. That's how you identify unknown magical items too – you cast Detect Magic or a similar spell and peer into the shape of it. That will tell you its function. 

Er, what do you mean? How to work spellsilver, as in put it into items? I don't think Bar will let me do that."

"Hah, sure. Well, not the ones we're currently wearing, but we have lesser versions of them in our bag. We've been meaning to send some people to sell them in Absalom or something, but we haven't gotten around to that. We're rich partly because we kill and loot weak adventurers we come across. That's how we got started. What sort of item would you like? We have a wide variety of items here – do you want me to list their functions or do you want to think of something and I'll see if I have it? Bar said that it's fine to share magic items so long as it doesn't produce a permanent effect, and that they go to their original owners before you leave.

Yes. I don't need to know the waltz. If I don't describe which waltz you're supposed to do, you have some amount of control as to which waltz you're compelled into dancing. If you're incapable of dancing a waltz, then the curse – Geases are also curses – will tighten around you and you'll suffer degeneration of mind and body until you obey its command. So, be sure that you actually know how to do a waltz before I cast the spell. Geases normally last for days at a time, for us our castings last more than two weeks, but I'll deliberately shorten it to last only one minute in your case.

Normally, you'll also put an open-ended clause in the Geas like 'Obey what I tell you to do', which lets you edit the command on the fly, but obviously I'm not going to put a clause like that. My wording shall be: 'For one minute, dance a waltz.' Does that sound good to you?"

"An isekai is a story where someone enters another world and stays there for a long while and accomplishes something there.  Typically they're from the real world, end up in a fantasy world by accident, and fix it... but excuse me.

"I'll check for you, Jenwy, far as I can - of course I don't have the least idea about whatever magic topology he'll be doing."

Jenwy shifts forward on her stool as if she's about stand up, but then settles back.  On second thought, she'd rather let the Geas do that too.

"'Course I can dance waltzes.  I was at a dance just last week.  That wording sounds good to me if you know..."  She straightens, trying to think what Erchman or Arvi or the other wizards from her books who relied on exact words would say.  "... if you know it'll do both what I said and what I meant."

She's nervous, but no more nervous than the first time she went skydiving.  She's also really excited.

"Geas me."

"I am confident in spelling out Geas wordings. I'm a specialist in enchantment magic, remember? Give me a moment."

"For one minute, dance a waltz." Lesser Geas.

Unlike Detect Thoughts, there's a sensation around Jenwy's head like a tight cap being put on her, which abates soon after. Then, the impulsive urge to do what the geas says – to dance – bubbles up from an instinctive part of her.

Jenwy starts at the sensation of the cap.  She's really feeling magic now!  That isn't anything material touching her head; it isn't in her imagination either; it's actual magic!

She reflexively jumps off her stool to her feet.  But then, just as she's about to start dancing, she remembers she wants to test the spell and feel the magic.  She clings to the bar counter and stands still.

Jenwy can feel the magic clinging to her mind, urging her, distracting her, itching her feet and arms and mind.  She could hold out if she had a really good reason... probably... if it was really really good... but she's finding it a little hard to even focus on speculating...

Areli is starting to look a little worried.  He knows Jenwy's probably stopping herself as an experiment, but this's still exactly how it'd look if the spell had given her some bad command...

Okay, Jenwy tells herself, she's felt the magic's nagging and she doesn't like it; time to dance!

She jumps back from the bar counter in something like a dancer's leap, lands in the open, and starts dancing her favorite solo waltz.  The magic's not actually lifting her feet and spinning her arms, but - if she focuses - she can still sense it in her mind driving her to keep up the dance.

It's weird.  It's magic.

She tries to intentionally drop out of rhythm for a moment, but her foot still keeps in the rhythm despite herself, just as reflexively as if she were catching herself from tripping.

Suddenly, the drive isn't there any longer.

She drops out of step, finds she can - finds she just did - and tops it off with one more leap that definitely doesn't belong in a waltz just because she can.

Then she stands still, breathes deeply, smooths her skirts, and breathes deeply again.  She's excited; she felt magic!  But it's still weird.  It was weird new reflexes and urges burrowing into her head, and - looking back, now - she doesn't like how she couldn't stop them.

"How is it? I specialize in enchantment, so my enchantment spells are likewise very difficult to resist. You can try, though." He chuckles. "It's quite a strange feeling, isn't it? You can continue to do other actions so long as they don't interfere with the dancing – Geases are narrow like that. Enchantments are very fun. It's not a very common specialty since enchantment magic is rather narrow in scope, but I have a talent for it."

A surprisingly good dancer! He makes his approval evident on his face, and claps.

"What about you, Areli? You looked a little concerned earlier. Do you want me to cast magic on you too? It doesn't have to be enchantment. I could have Conrad cast transmutation magic on you. There's tons of fun transmutation spells: Enlarge Person, Fly, Polymorph, Gaseous Form, or Haste. Enlarge Person is particularly fun to use in the bedroom." He leans forward and lowers his voice, as if saying something secret of great import. "Truth be told, I've been trying to cajole Conrad into developing a selective variant of Enlarge Person." He laughs.

"Alternatively, I can cast magic with visible on an item or in an area, if you don't want to be a target. Don't worry, Bar, I won't cast spells that will destroy things or will make a mess.

He glares at Damian.

"That is not a good use of my time. I want to make actually useful spells like your new episodic memory erasure spell. And besides, I already helped you with your single-target Black Tentacles variant spell – there is a limit to the amount of indulgence I will tolerate."

"Oh, fine. You're no fun. It's not like we're wasting time here, you know – this is a timeless demiplane. We can spend as much time here as we want. Bar, do you have rooms for rent?"

:We do. The pricing schema is similar to the drink price schema.:

"Wonderful," he says, putting down a handful of gold coins. "A room for two, please. We'll stay the night...to the extent night is a meaningful concept in this demiplane."

Jenwy blushes at the mention of bedroom uses of Enlarge Person.

"The Geas is... strange, yes.  It doesn't hurt, but it's not really nice.  What other enchantments can you do?  Or those 'transmutation spells' sound even more fun, like polymorphing or even flying!

Jenwy gasps a little when Conrad mentions the memory erasure spell.  "Memory magic?  That could be really fun too - but it sounds dangerous to have around.  I mean, I trust you after that Geas, but any of your enemies -"

She suddenly chuckles, realizing how that sounded.  "I mean, I trust you because you didn't change up the Geas and let it wear off.  Or at least that's what I think!"

Areli takes a ballpoint pen out of his pocket and twirls it thoughtfully in his fingers.  "I'll pass on the Geas, thanks.  But I'd go for a Fly or Gaseous Form...  Or, how exact can a Polymorph be?  Can you, say, Polymorph into someone else?  Or Polymorph wings onto your back without turning the rest of you into a bird?

"And for that matter, do you have any books from your world?  Or do you, Bar - at least to read in here even though I can't take them home?"

(He chuckles along with Jenwy, though a little more hollowly.)

"Other enchantments? I have lots. Charm Person, Dominate Person, Unnatural Lust, Hypnotism and Seducer's Eyes, to name a few." He laughs.

"Of course, I also have more helpful and less obscene enchantments such as Heroism, Delay Pain, Keep Watch, Crushing Despair, and Binding.

Mmhmm, it's very useful to keep secrets from getting out. You can't use it on the battlefield, though. It takes a whole ten minutes to cast, and it requires that you be touching the other person. And yes, the Geas has worn off, now that you have fulfilled its command – you no longer feel the urge to dance, I'm sure."

"You can't Polymorph into someone else. That's a little too precise for Alter Self, or for you, Polymorph. I can get close – I'm very good at transmutation – but usually you'll need Disguise Self, or in your case, Disguise Other, to take you the rest of the way. You can even use it to change your sex for a time: when I was in the military at the Worldwound, I would give my superiors sexual favors by polymorphing into beautiful women, so that they'll approve my requests for spellsilver so I could enchant my greatsword." He taps the sheath on his belt. "Oh, and copy spells too.

You can't do that. Polymorphing spells usually change the whole of your form. If you want to fly, just cast Fly. No need for wings. If you want to have wings just for the appearance of wings, try an illusion spell like Major Image instead."

Jenwy is blushing even more.

"Uh, that - that Binding one.  How does that work?  And how much can you do with memory magic - there're a lot of books that limit it so you can't make false memories, or you can only wipe the last hour, or something like that.  But there was one I read that went so much farther and had wild loops of conspiracies and false memories over false memories."

"Binding is one of the most powerful sealing spells you can cast. It's the sort of thing you use to bind very strong monsters, and usually requires several people to cast. And it also requires thousands of gold pieces' worth of gemstones. Total overkill in most cases. For more quotidian purposes, you'll want Hold Person or perhaps Animate Rope.

It depends. The go-to spell for memory modification is the helpfully named Modify Memory. It can do one of four things: erase someone's true memory, permit someone to recall a true memory with perfect clarity, change the details of a true memory, or implant a false memory – where 'true' is an event they actually experienced. The limitation of it is that you can only affect five minute blocks of time with each casting. More time means more castings. We're only interested in the first use-case, but we needed it to affect a much longer duration, on the span of years. 

My spell, which I haven't named yet, can erase a continuous segment of someone's episodic memory of up to ten years' duration. There cannot be any seams in it: you have to erase the whole block. If you want to be selective, you must cast it multiple times. It cannot implant false memories.

If you have any particular memories you feel like erasing, I can help you with that – but you must know the exact dates which are to be erased."

"No!"  Her memory is her own; nothing can touch it!

Except apparently it can now, with loose enough limits that people can't be confident, but still real enough that it makes sense some conspiracy hasn't taken over the world yet.

But, say... this spell could open up any number of schemes which wouldn't even involve her lying anymore...

(Jenwy glances at Areli inquisitively.)

"Can you restore the original memories afterwards?  And it sounds like you only do episodic memory?"

There're any number of cases where a truly unbiased witness would be useful to judge debates.  But if they can only erase episodic memory - well, it might still work in some cases, but probably not since the bias will have woven itself through the person's mind in time that can't be erased.

"Or, well, it must be useful in misleading people on your adventures."

"You can't. My memory removal spell is instantaneous rather than permanent. This means that there's no way to restore the lost memories using the usual methods of Break Enchantment, Remove Curse, or Heal. Limited Wish or Wish might be able to do it, I don't think there's a safe wording. I first developed it as a seventh-circle spell, then spent the next year optimizing it to sixth-circle. It took another year to get it down to fifth. I don't think it's possible to get it to fourth, even though that's the circle that the spells I based it off of are: Amnesia and Modify Memory.

We don't use it to mislead people. It takes ten minutes to cast, and you must be touching the person. Further, the spell can be resisted with Will. It's not a combat spell by any means. We use it if someone in our organization wants to leave. We have about fifty people working for us, and we have a secret hermetically sealed underground base in the mountains that's only accessible via teleportation magic. Now, see, Conrad," he looks at him, "is very concerned about people having...exit rights.

That is to say, he wants people to be able to freely stop working for us, because that means that only those loyal to us will stay, and we'll spend less effort Detecting Thoughts and ensuring that people don't backstab us. Which is admittedly tiresome. We obviously don't want our secrets to get out, especially the location of our base. Knowing where to Teleport to will expose our base to risk, even though we have a Teleport Trap there that will ensure all teleportation is redirected to the dungeon cells if you don't have both a physical token and a password. Therefore, we use the memory erasure spell to erase all their memories for working for us, and then Teleport them to an inn in an inhabited city within Teleport-range with their pay and items."

He leans forward on the bench.

"And schemes? What sort of schemes? I am very interested in schemes."

"You've put all that effort into letting people stop working for you and leave?  That's admirable!  That was one of the insights that's at the core of modern Ev... though it's leaving me concerned about what other nations in your world are doing?"

"Hmm, taking that long makes it a lot more difficult.  I was imagining you could sneak into places and change people's memories so they wouldn't see you, or wouldn't see your friends...  You could use it for setting up games and then erasing people's memories of the summaries, though that'd be elaborate unless the spell is really common...  And of course it'd be really bad if some utopian gets ahold of the ten-year version."

He laughs for a little while. "Yeah, definitely not that. Not Cheliax, at least. I think the other nations respect exit rights more. For citizens, at least. Do you have slavery in your world? Cheliax is run on the backs of slaves. Indeed, all nations in the Inner Sea have legal slavery save for the River Kingdoms, Andoran, and Absalom.

Well, if I was left to my own devices, I'd use enchantments to ensure loyalty rather than do the whole rigmarole with memory erasure. Conrad dearest was the one that asked me to develop the memory erasure spell, and he asked very nicely. So I did it." His face becomes more neutral. "There are some people who left who I'd rather not have."

"It's not a common spell. Right, I should explain how the circle system works." He glances over at the counter, then looks back at Jenwy. "Magic is based on energy shaped in a particular way. The shape of magic is dependent on the number of 'holes' it has. The more holes, the more energy and complexity it can support, but likewise, the harder it is to prepare. We refer to the 'holes' as 'circles', although they're not exactly circles when you look at them.

Wizards, and indeed, all spellcasters, are sorted based on the highest circle of spell they can cast. This is dependent on their channeling capacity: how much energy they can pour into a spell. Being too weak means that you won't be able to infuse the manifold with energy; being too dumb, in the case of wizards, means that you'll lack the capacity for visualization necessary to keep the entire spellform in your mind. Modify Memory is not only a fourth-circle spell, it is also a bard-only spell, and bards are rarer than wizards."

Then, to Areli, "Tell me about modern Ev. What's it like? I'm surprised all of your nations have the same respect for exit rights. I suppose that's the sort of thing that's feasible when you don't have magic. A ninth-circle wizard like myself can slaughter a battalion a day or more – a world without magic seems like it would have...less power inequality."

"Good - er, I'm so glad you did the memory erasing, then.  Enchantments sound even worse.

"We have slavery, but not like that.  My nation doesn't have slavery at all - I made sure to choose one that didn't have it.  But there're some nations where someone can sell himself into slavery for debt or be sentenced to slavery for a crime, and that can go disturbing places...  But Cheliax sounds so much worse!"

She shakes her head.  "Still, we don't have every country respecting exit rights.  Just last year I was trying to fight one theocracy that had a border-guard to keep people in.  Then there're other nations - territorial nations - that tell people not to leave even if they won't actually drag you away from the border.  But most nations will."

"Jenwy's been looking at the worst parts of Ev," Areli adds.

(She pokes him with her elbow.)

He flashes her a quick grin, and pokes her back with his elbow.  "Yes, I'll make the value-judgment here.  Even History-Monks can do that when we really want to.  We just need to acknowledge when things are complicated... so yes, if you grant all the Slatar Theocracy's theological premises, then keeping people from leaving will eventually most likely be to their benefit.  But I do not grant that, as you can see from how I'm not there."

"Anyway," he continues, turning back to Damian, "let me tell you about the not-worst parts of Ev.  We don't have magic, but we have machines to... well, do a lot of things.  Take stuff places, heat and cool water, purify water, cook food, talk to people over long distances, print books, and more.  And most people live in cities now, I think maybe three out of every four people in the more advanced parts of the world?

"Jenwy's been talking about small wars, but they've stayed small.  There was one big war in the last century, and I think that was because the Barren-Power movement inherently praised fighting to a greater degree than any other utopian ideology, so it had so many more supporters ready to fight... but I could talk about that for far too long, and I'm not sure whether you'll be praising us for so much peace or criticizing us for so much war?  Anyway, yeah, without magic, one person who wants to kill people can't do it to a large scale before other people stop him.  

"Politically, most of Ev has several nations in each territory, and everyone can choose which nation to belong to.  There's a territorial government that establishes standards for things between people of different nations, makes sure everyone can leave, and makes sure nobody can skip out on honest responsibilities.  That last one can get a little complicated with things like debt-slavery, of course."