This post has the following content warnings:
keltham in Osirion; Project Lawful does a pivot
Next Post »
« Previous Post
+ Show First Post
Total: 1496
Posts Per Page:
Permalink

"Nah.  You can talk without thinking, and if I didn't know what I was doing on some level, I wouldn't be able to do it.  Though that does make it hard to decide what not to say."

Permalink

"Doesn't talking about it automatically cause your brain to reflect on it?"

Permalink

"Not if I decide it doesn't."

Permalink

 

"Add that to the list of ilani skills that Golarion, for now, will be better off without."

Permalink

Keltham emerges from Ione's bedroom eventually, looking a little less shell-shocked than when he went in.

Knowing that his Carissa was, so far as Ione-of-two-days-ago knows, almost real... helps, and hurts, at the same time.

His decisions would've been easier, past this point, if Carissa had in fact sold her soul, if the contract with Keltham had been fake, if Carissa had been headed to Hell no matter what, on the default course of things.

Permalink

His security looks considerably unhappier than when they entered the temple, and are pacing in the library not far from Ione's room though they do not seem to have been given an exact location. "Someone took the bait and kidnapped one of the impersonators," says Fe-Anar. "They probably know by now that they got an impersonator, but we don't know if they'll try again. The guard wants to teleport you right back to the Dome but I told them that's what Cheliax would do. They looked very offended."

Permalink

"Annoying.  Do you assert that the library in the Black Dome is much safer for me to browse than this library?"

Permalink

"Well, that depends whether Nefreti will intervene if bad things happen, or not. If she'll bestir herself to help, here's the safest place in the world. If she won't, then the Dome's much safer."

Permalink

"This is my library," says Ione Sala's voice from somewhere, "and Kelthamnappers, other than myself of course, are not allowed in my library."

Permalink

"Great," he says, "in that case stay all day, I suppose."

Permalink

(You don't have to be omniscient to guess Keltham might have an interesting conversation right after leaving, or shelve yourself someplace out-of-sight but in hearing distance to hear it; and it's actually Nefreti who defends the Temple of the All-Seeing Eye.  But Ione has heard any stories about Maniacal Scientist Verrez at this point, and she's grasped the dath ilani concept of a 'fingersnap'.)

Permalink

Keltham's next task, before his renewed Prestidigitation fades and he forgets her name, is to go try setting up initial wizard lessons for Mirna.

Permalink

She'll presumably want day lessons, six days a week, bring your own lunch, for the next four months; that's what the price covers. That won't get most int-14 people to a reliable mastery of cantrips, if they're starting without any math or magic background, but it'll get some there, and get others far enough they can keep practicing on their own. If she's not literate she'll need to learn to read first.

Permalink

...Keltham supposes he can imagine wizard lessons taking that long, if you don't have any Chelish Security officers overlaying illusions of what they can see with soul-bought Arcane Sight, and you only know Golarion's concept of early wizard math, and you've never played any mathy video games or done any computer programming, and your INT is 14.

How much do reading lessons cost?

Permalink

Not much by comparison; four gold will cover a month, and a bright student ought to pick it up in three.

Permalink

...here's sixteen gold, and if Mirna doesn't need it, educate someone else who does.

(Three months for an adult to learn how to read... that's what happens when your written language isn't a pointwise isomorph of your spoken language's sounds, Keltham supposes, but it may also illustrate some fundamental problem with their process for teaching things.)

Permalink

They'll do that. The classes are popular, there'll be a taker even if this particular woman isn't one. 

Permalink

"Fe-Anar, I'm confused about how Osirion doesn't think it's worth 12gp to educate INT 14s to read and then another 50gp to get them started on wizard lessons.  It seems like the sort of thing that'd get paid back in greater tax revenue later, if Osirion got a loan to make that investment now, unless interest rates are way higher than Cheliax let me know about."

Permalink

"I imagine usually their households wouldn't be able to spare them for several months. We run schools for boys but a lot of parents don't send them because they need their boys at home for work, and that's much younger kids whose work is much less valuable."

Permalink

"All right.  I'll take that as a general sign that things are in an awful equilibrium rather than Osirion's government being stupid."

"And I'm not going to try to roll any solutions to it, because in a short while they'll have to refigure the system anyways to account for people getting loaned temporary +4 intelligence headbands while they're learning" or the larger system containing this one will have been destroyed.

Permalink

Next up, there's a topic Keltham wants to look into while he's in Nethys's library.

Ancient gods.  Where'd they come from, according to the library of the temple of the god of knowledge.  Does eg Sarenrae really care about human beings, or are they just a kind of strange object in Its utility function.  Are any of the ancient gods known to really care about human beings the way that human beings care about each other, and not just as a kind of thing that can be configured to generate more utility in many different ways, some of which the humans enjoy more than others.

Does Abadar - seem to ever care, at all, about people, as something other than trading partners?

Are there any hints about the once-human gods being forced into subservience to the ancient ones, or making concessions to those ancient gods in exchange for being permitted their godhood?

(Keltham is also going to be paying attention to any information he runs across about Rovagug, Pharasma, Achaekek, Aroden, the Starstone, or Outer Gods, but does not want to make it very obvious that he's researching those subjects.)

Permalink

There is plenty of speculation about what the gods care about, but most of it is irresponsible, the better half of it admittedly so. The gods cannot communicate with the Material very well; they can be judged by who they pick as clerics, because that's definitely somehow related to what they fundamentally are as beings, and they can be judged by what their messengers say. Sarenrae, it is said, was an angel before She ascended, and you can go ask a lot of angels what they value in the universe, and that's probably the best you can do. 

 

Angels say all kinds of things, when you ask them what they value in the universe. 

For every child there is a moment when they realize for the first time that there is something it is like, to be someone else. And that's it, I think, that's the whole thing. There is something it is like to be the most damaged, angry, frightened person in all the universe, there is as much to them as to everything I've ever known or will ever know. When they hurt, they hurt exactly like I do. 

 

In Nirvana, there is a little spring, full of sunlight, where otters play, and dive, and eat clams, and recite poetry, and practice magic, and write stories and read stories and rejoice in one another. I cannot tell you what I value in that little spring, let alone in all the universe; but my answer, so far as I have one, is that if you wanted to understand Good, and could look anywhere, I would start there.

 

Sometimes, two people look at each other, and see that they can trust each other, and see that they can grow in each others' arms, and desire what's best for the other wholly and uncomplicatedly, the way a child who has not yet learned to be ashamed of her desires desires her mother's breast. That is how Shelyn loves us, and the universe ought to be the sort of place that that love would build, were it unrestrained.

 

In every person there is a whole world, and they ought to explore it as far as their legs carry them, and then learn to fly, and then learn to Teleport; that's what Good is. 

 

Good is desiring for another person that things go well for them, by their own lights; growing up is just learning how to do that for every single other person in every moment with every breath without it hurting too much to bear.

Permalink

Abadar and his followers wish to bring the light of civilization to the wilderness, to help educate all in the benefits of law and properly regulated commerce. He expects his followers to obey all meaningful laws, but not those which are ridiculous, unenforceable, or self-contradictory. He is also a great proponent of peace, as war inevitably leads to the degradation of trade and the stifling of prosperity for the general public. He advocates cautious, careful consideration in all matters, and frowns on impulsiveness, believing that it leads to the encouragement of primitive needs. Abadar discourages dependence on government or any religious institution, believing that wealth and happiness should be achievable by anyone with keen judgement, discipline, and a healthy respect for all sensible, just laws.

 

Abadar is not one of the gods with a track record of adopting specific pet humans He then makes absurd sacrifices for, though some gods do do that; Aroden seemed to have particularly close and sustained attachments to the greatest among His mortal followers, and a number of them He eventually promoted to demigods or similar before Iomedae, of course, attained full godhood in Her own right. The first time Abadar has bestowed attention, power and mentorship on mortals in some form other than promoting them as His priests or sending them visions is the current situation in Osirion.

During the Age of Creation, Abadar was among the original gods who battled the Rough Beast who sought to destroy Golarion. According to the Windsong Testaments, after Gorum and Torag forged the shell of the Dead Vault, Abadar provided the perfect key and lock for Rovagug's prison, a key so cunningly made that only Asmodeus could turn it.

Abadar is credited with guiding the advancement of humanoid races towards the point where they could establish civilized societies of their own.
 

The general understanding of the Osirion situation is that the end of prophecy made it necessary for Abadar to have the ability to pay mortals to do what He wants, if He's going to get any of His goals achieved. 

The context in which Abadar's best understood to do things people think of as sentimental is the First Vault. The story goes that the first time a mortal made, with their own hands, something of value to them, He was delighted, and when it was lost to the general difficulties of life in that time, He was horrified, and He made the vault so that the work of peoples' hands and minds would never be lost forever. Depending on the source, He may or may not let some people go in and get treasured things once they die.

Abadar strives to maintain agreeable relationships with the other deities, recognizing their influence is conducive to the further advancement of civilized life. In particular, he cultivates alliances with Iomedae, Irori, Shelyn, Asmodeus, and Erastil. Gozreh often opposes Abadar's actions, though Abadar only recognizes Rovagug and Lamashtu as true enemies. The god Aroden respected Abadar and consulted Abadar's The Manual of City-Building to aid in his establishment of the country of Taldor and of the city-state of Absalom. Abadar once opened channels to the archdevil Mephistopheles to cement an alliance based on the archdevil's interest in contracts but these negotiations failed.

No one really understands how the once-human gods relate to the never-human gods. There are vague half-references to Aroden having tried to make some arrangements before He ascended, before giving up and becoming a god. The once-human gods are definitely much weaker than the never-human ones; it's unclear if that's somehow intrinsic to being once-human, or the product of a negotiated agreement or just a temporary state of affairs because the once-human gods are weaker or what. 

Abadar was worshiped by the ancient Azlanti before Earthfall, who focused more on his aspects as a god of cities and gold, rather than of law. As the Azlanti built their first towns and sought others to trade with, he saw his cult spread and taught them to establish cities and seek more wealth. When the Azlanti became an empire, Abadar's faith became popular among merchants and politicians.

Abadar's church turned economy and finances into an academic school. Many temples served as vaults where the church's and the empire's wealth resided, and the government provided significant military and security support to the church. As the empire expanded, Abadar's church founded hundreds of cities and established trade across all colonies, and turned the formation of a stable economy and a network of merchants who could carry goods and currency across the entire empire into an art.

Permalink

Those sure are some nice testaments from angels.  Are those, by any chance, all angels who used to be human, who are being asked here, or has Keltham misunderstood the nature of angels?  Are there similarly humane-sounding statements from the sort of angels who were the same kind of angel Sarenrae was?

What's the story with Sarenrae having destroyed a city at some point?

Are there any ancient gods who seem to have really loved a mortal, in a way that shows they, like, understood that whole mortal business?

...do the books say what Abadar's alliance with Asmodeus is about?

Permalink

The book does not say if the angels used to be human! Not all angels used to be human or even used to be any mortal species, but there's not generally understood to be fundamental differences in priorities or outlook between angels that were human and angels that weren't.

 

 

....what counts as really loving a mortal? There's, uh, a rumor Desna and Cayden Cailean fucked when He was human and that's why he succeeded at ascending. Erastil is broadly understood to be a giant humanity fanboy who does things like attempt to have a gender on purpose because humans do it and attempting to have a wife on purpose because humans do it and attempting to conceive children on purpose because humans do it. 

 

After Sarenrae told her followers not to go near the smooth scar left above Rovagug's prison, they either misunderstood her or decided to ignore her, and went to build a city there. Rovagug was able to influence the city and the people in it, and did so, making the people twisted and Evil and working towards his own release. Sarenrae eventually sent Her herald to tell the people they were in terrible peril and needed to leave immediately. They murdered the herald. At that point She smote the city. Her Church generally holds that She didn't have a lot of options, but still regrets and repents of Her decision there. 

 

Asmodeus generally backs Abadar's work to build cities and civilizations, because humans are capable of more of the kinds of tyranny of interest to Asmodeus when they have social organization more sophisticated than a tiny hunter-gatherer tribe. Abadar trades with Asmodeus, though He does not recommend to His followers that they do so.

Total: 1496
Posts Per Page: