Aug 17, 2022 8:51 AM
Vanda Nosseo lands on a world that fights a lot of wars.
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They are PRETTY CONFIDENT you cannot actually trust people whose mind you don't have read access to. But what she does when she steps out is nothing they can influence and she might go mad at any time (sadness, fear, woe) so all they can really do is wish her well, and sing until it is time to leave.

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Go mad?

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People who aren't in harmony sometimes do that! It's very strange! They don't understand it at all but apparently it just sort of happens to members of most species that aren't in harmony sometimes? It's one of the reasons you can't trust anyone outside harmony.

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She doesn't... really expect to come down with a mental illness suddenly but admits she cannot rule it out completely, mental illness propensity in Yeerks-who-have-become-Elves-and-then-joined-a-demon-hive-mind is not well studied.

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Good, they hope she doesn't! They wish her well, because they wish everyone well!

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...including people who are not in the hive mind and cannot or don't want to be?

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... Yes? They're not efficient-on-the-pareto-frontier-as-a-way-of-accomplishing-the-maximization-of-good-values, but you don't want them to suffer, they could just be replaced by other entities that were happier and more productive and probably ate less. (They have run into a lot of species and nobody else seems to be as efficient about genetic engineering as they are, though to be fair some of them weren't even trying.) (Though elves are really cool and they can learn some useful things from them.) (Happy discovery that everyone is going to end up more efficient!)

(Also people who can and don't want to are just wrong, and would if they knew what they were talking about.) (Absolute, 100% consensus.)

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Oh, yeah, it's really nice in here, she is 5000% coming back, but it seems like probably if they just waited around and didn't attack anyone, people who want to be absorbed in a happy hive mind forever would drop by sometimes, and most people in Vanda Nossëo are immortal or resurrectable, so in principle everyone would always have the opportunity to do that if they got bored with other stuff.

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This is definitely a good thing that will happen!

(Also, they need to do some mass updates for how to respond given that the universe is apparently no longer finite and resource-constrained, and they're setting a team to working on it on the other side of the planet.)

But the problem with everyone having the opportunity to join the Concordance but not being part of it is that everyone would also have the opportunity to wipe them out forever. There is literally no way of being safe if Vanda Nosseo is stronger than they are, that's the problem. They definitely want to befriend and recruit everyone, it's just impossible to befriend and recruit people who aren't in harmony with you! They can just say things and then do other things! And Vanda Nosseo is stronger than they are and that's scary!

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...maybe if they came to terms with Vanda Nossëo, they could move to the Eclipse neighborhood and get some psions and turn them into precogs?

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That is a fascinating idea! (joy, hope, excitement) and they will set a team to thinking about it!

(Unfortunately there will still be horrifying non-harmonious things that are terrifying and they can destroy them, but at least they'll know about it in advance so it will be less scary!)

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They probably can't come to terms with Vanda Nossëo that involve destroying things. Is there like... a way to practice trusting things that aren't in harmony? Like... they could get a Charp, and it's a magic robot so it wouldn't be able to sing with them, but it does what it's told and won't hurt anyone.

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You can trust something that you can completely predict. (confidence) A rock, say. (yup, yup, yup) You know when a rock will crush you. You can't trust alternatephysics-abominations not to not hurt anyone.

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Okay, it's impossible to achieve certainty, sure, someone could always go nuts and start doing murders, but they could... have insurance maybe? It's a Dwarf thing, she thinks... And then they could resurrect anyone who was hurt, and even anyone who was lost from the song before. They could all come back. Is that good enough to make up for some uncertainty?

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... They think that everything she is talking about, she is talking about from the perspective of a society that has given up on safety and security because these are impossible to actually get without harmony, that uses the words for things that are not really very close to them. Everything she is describing passes through the single failure point of "what happens if people just lie." You don't let people who can just lie go around doing things. It's not safe. You replace them with people who will have more total utility and also, cannot lie; this serves the goal of maximizing total utility both directly (more efficiency) and indirectly (by making a safe society). There are abominations everywhere and they are terrifying and evil and you cannot just let them live.

They have actually thought about this a lot! There is very clear confidence from them about how this works! They are slightly decreasing their confidence levels but only because they need to decrease their confidence levels about everything now that they know other universes exist that don't have entropy. They think that Vanda Nosseo cannot actually make them safe over the long term, not when it could say it was doing that and then not do it. They don't actually have a solution to this problem so they guess they will do whatever Vanda Nosseo says unless it is literally worse than death, in which case they will die, possibly after creating new people who wouldn't mind. But they don't like it at all, and they are sharing that confidence and that not-liking along with all the constant joy, and think she should update more towards their position.

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There is only one of her and there are trillions of them...

...but her information came from trillions of other people?

Would it help at all if she like, browsed the internet for them a bit? ...her chiplock might not work any more, she probably thinks too differently now, but she could get a non-chiplock.

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This solution, like all other solutions, passes through the single failure point of "people might just lie." (sad, unfortunate)

It's a really great idea anyway, though! They'd love to look at the internet! (pride, congratulations, you-are-valuable-and-worth-having)

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Awww she loves them <3

She will look at the internet for them! It turns out she can get her chiplock to work by doing a hard reset and retraining it, which loses her locked personal files but they weren't important anyway.

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They love her too!

They appreciate her sacrifice but she can know with nearly 100% confidence that she is making the correct decision.

So, internet?

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Internet! Here is Wikipedia. The featured article of the day is about a species of dolphin but she can look up whatever would most interest them, on or off Wikipedia.

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They will look at the featured article, slightly bemusedly. (The internet kind of feels kind of like a cargo-cult version of them?)

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The Baiji River Dolphin is on Earths generally functionally extinct by the mid-2000s but has a remaining wild population in Hazel, as well as having been discovered in Earthlike biomes on Stork and Hex. Oikos Wildlife has emplaced baiji on their planet Oikosia.
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They are mostly borrowing her abilities to understand the internet, the way they are to read.

So... it's a description of a species, in some of the worlds that Vanda Nosseo has... that could be edited by literally any person in Vanda Nosseo... that they expect to produce accurate information.

They continue reading, metaphorically nodding along as she sends out her reading into the world. This specific species is ambiguously sentient and has been destroyed by humans on multiple worlds, because the humans wanted to make use of the species' skin and flesh and because they were transforming its environment into one more suited to humans; understandable, but -

Then they get to:

Wikipedia Page

Folklore
Per Chinese folklore, a beautiful young girl is said to have lived with her stepfather on the banks of the river Yangtze. He was evil, and a greedy man out for his own self-interest. One day, he took the girl on a boat, intending to sell her on the market. Out on the river, though, he became infatuated with her beauty and tried to take advantage of her. But she freed herself by plunging into the river whereupon a big storm came and sank the boat. After the storm had thus settled, people saw a beautiful dolphin swimming – the incarnation of the girl – which became known as the "Goddess of the Yangtze". The baiji, in the region of Yangtze, is regarded as a symbol of peace and prosperity.

They appear to have a section of information in their information-page that is about the general consensus of humanity... the thing it gets to when it shares information with itself... that says humans sell other humans to humans for their own interest, or are sometimes too insane to do this, and sometimes humans also turn into animals? Is that limited to when they dive into the water or is it universal?

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Humans usually don't do that (though they can, with magic or morph); "folklore" means it's a made up story. People like making up stories that didn't happen.

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... Yes. They say things that didn't happen and they put them next to things that did happen, and sometimes people get confused, and they repeat them as true facts, and everyone ends up saying false things and believing false things and acting on these false beliefs. This is why the Concordance is always checking everything with everyone, so they can learn what is true and what isn't, and not spreading things that aren't true.

Is there somewhere on this website you can go on this only for things that the last person to edit the page thinks did happen?

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