"Even if your alt is found during a period of mind-altering oath and outside the neighborhood in which we can distribute free will?"

"Taliars can do free will."

"All right."

"I really don't see eye-to-eye with Elaneth-imire but it took him about five minutes to get Maitimo to stop, voluntarily, once he learned what was going on, and he spent three of them being tortured."

"That was under conditions of ongoing warfare with a Melkor."

"That's the only state you're going to find them in, that or 'we lost, everyone's dead', in which case I've made it know to Elaneth-imire that my preference is to leave him dead but we'd at least have time for planning."

"We might find one earlier, but I suppose then there wouldn't be an oath-related problem. We might also find them having encountered not-us multiversal interference of any kind."

"I didn't consider that. A stable arrangement in which the local Maitimo is not threatened by you is more important than getting my alt out quickly."

"It's not that I disagree, but the compromise won't sit well, so if there's a way not to have to make it which simply happens to require more than five minutes' thought..."

"Won't sit well with -"

"The standard-variety Maitimos, and to a lesser extent my alts, especially those who are fond of any of yours in particular."

"It's not like leaving Maitimos in Angband while we get some politics sorted out - I much prefer on a personal level the trajectory of my kind of Arda to a standard one - and if you could notify me that stabilizing the place is in progress I'll prefer helping with that to getting whisked away from it."

"Understood. I do not mean to say that the extent to which situations like yours upset standard Maitimos is carefully considered."

"Yes, I - got the picture - and also the picture that observing that their standard arc is much much unpleasant for me wouldn't be helpful - and I appreciate that you're trying to work around them."

Nod. "Incidentally we don't currently have a name for your category of Arda better than 'evil Arda', which is what we were calling Shadow for a while before Boots changed it, and this seems bad for attempts to operate in good faith."

"I'm sort of absurdly pleased there are ones where it's different. Perhaps the Taliars can solicit name suggestions from Dawn's residents."

"Standard Ardas, uninterfered with, are not pleasant either, but differently. Suggestions from Dawn's residents would be lovely."

"Yes, I got the update - I'm not sure where the humanitarian toll is highest, but it's personally satisfying for there to be worlds full of - people different than the ones in our world. I expect Dawn'll take a while to get back to you but have something lovely."

"If it takes too long then the informal placeholder will probably wind up having the undesired contamination effect on negotiations."

"'dark Arda' might go over better than 'evil'."

"I anticipate puns but nothing worse than that. I'll let everyone know." Message message.

"Thank you."

"You're welcome."

"I'm looking forward to helping you however I can," says Liran-alore. "Are there any orcs in need of healing right now? All the ones in Dawn that were alive when Elaneth-imire killed Melkor were in his healing aura already, but I guess that leaves plenty of dead ones..."

"The orcs from all the other Ardas are fine on a population level; we took Shadow's before Independence was moved. If you want to go to an orc planet and visit a maternity ward and see if you can catch someone's baby before the attending healer does that would serve as a proof of concept - although someone will need to be reading the baby's mind to make sure it works; it's hard to tell on newborns."