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Bella's not sure where she has wandered. She thought she was about to walk into a shop, but this appears to be an unattended bar. With none of the windows associated with the shop she thought she was entering. It could be an elaborate psychic assault of some kind, but it doesn't feel very... assault-y... and she was in the middle of a town and doesn't think any humans want to sic their 'mon on her. It's strange. She approaches the bar, looking around warily, hand hovering near her belt.
with Max (Benedict)
with Earth and Lightning (kappa)
with Ann and Sabrina (kuuskytkolme)
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the_very_best
small_magics
I think it may be for economic reasons relating to the patrons' home worlds, but there are enough odd edge cases that it's a decidedly haphazard solution to such problems.
It is indeed a long napkin - the elf has unfolded it - but she is coming up on the end of it. "I would like some tea," she tells the bar, "if you don't mind."
The bar supplies her a teapot and teacup. She pours. She sips.
"This is, I think, the finest tea it has ever been my pleasure to drink."
It is indeed a long napkin - the elf has unfolded it - but she is coming up on the end of it. "I would like some tea," she tells the bar, "if you don't mind."
The bar supplies her a teapot and teacup. She pours. She sips.
"This is, I think, the finest tea it has ever been my pleasure to drink."
unblinkered
"Yeah, it does that. Coffee I ordered was magically perfect. Kinda casts doubt on the idea that it doesn't read minds, considering how people's tastes vary."
small_magics
"That would be - distressing, but - mm - no, the tea is good quality but it is not ideal, I think. I like it but it is seasonally appropriate and I prefer autumn blends."
unblinkered
He raises an eyebrow.
"Elves have autumn blends? They- and you have tea, okay, and humanoid physiology and okay that was a useless observation."
...Elves, while presumably being one of many types of people in this bar's multiverse he doesn't know about, are the thing-he-doesn't-know-about that have a representative sitting right next to him.
"So... elves! What... actually, I don't know how to begin asking how you're different from humans, since you don't... do you have humans?"
"Elves have autumn blends? They- and you have tea, okay, and humanoid physiology and okay that was a useless observation."
...Elves, while presumably being one of many types of people in this bar's multiverse he doesn't know about, are the thing-he-doesn't-know-about that have a representative sitting right next to him.
"So... elves! What... actually, I don't know how to begin asking how you're different from humans, since you don't... do you have humans?"
small_magics
The elf frowns at him, but says, "There are humans in my world, yes."
unblinkered
"Humans, as in... I guess there are too many questions to find one to start with. I mean... I'm probably not going to your world, so the only thread I can chase is raw curiosity."
He drums his fingers on the bar.
"So... what's it like in Elf World?"
He drums his fingers on the bar.
"So... what's it like in Elf World?"
small_magics
"My world's name is Thilanushinyel, and in it, elves find it highly impolite to ask questions outside of emergencies."
unblinkered
"It's impolite to ask questions? What in the... how does that work? What's impolite about questi-"
Oh. Wait. Crap. Hold on. That was just- he just asked three questions immediately after being told...
"I mean, um... I... I didn't..."
...he's got nothing.
Oh. Wait. Crap. Hold on. That was just- he just asked three questions immediately after being told...
"I mean, um... I... I didn't..."
...he's got nothing.
small_magics
"A straightforward replacement is to state the desire to know something. It is inelegant but not outright rude, as it does not so directly demand information."
unblinkered
"Directly demand... really? I mean- that- I register surprise, that wasn't a question, 'really', just- christ, that's weird. I wonder why... if there's this universal translator, and... I'd assume whatever language you're really speaking, under the hood... the grammar for question-asking would be special, a clearly different form that makes the demand explicit. Am I-"
He stops.
"...I'd like to know, but don't demand a response about, whether I'm right about questions having special syntax in your language. In the language that I'm really speaking, questions are... basically like what you're saying, stating the desire to know something, followed by a description of the thing, except the desire-to-know is indicated with like... it flips the subject and the verb, and there's a little inflection at the end, and that's it. Ingrained as a normal part of language. I mean... I should get Anna in here sometime, she's a linguist, she'd get like ten different research papers out of this."
He stops.
"...I'd like to know, but don't demand a response about, whether I'm right about questions having special syntax in your language. In the language that I'm really speaking, questions are... basically like what you're saying, stating the desire to know something, followed by a description of the thing, except the desire-to-know is indicated with like... it flips the subject and the verb, and there's a little inflection at the end, and that's it. Ingrained as a normal part of language. I mean... I should get Anna in here sometime, she's a linguist, she'd get like ten different research papers out of this."
small_magics
"There are grammatical markers for questions. They are economical in time and in cutting down on extraneous social niceties, and are acceptable from small children or in times of war or other emergency, but not from polite adults, among elves."
unblinkered
"But I guess humans in your world, they speak-"
Oh, wait. Max has an idea.
"Actually, hang on, let me try something. I'm gonna say, right here: 'Hola! No habla Espanol!' and- if you like, tell me what it just sounded like I said there."
Oh, wait. Max has an idea.
"Actually, hang on, let me try something. I'm gonna say, right here: 'Hola! No habla Espanol!' and- if you like, tell me what it just sounded like I said there."
unblinkered
Max's eyes light up.
"A-HA! Oh, that's good. That's something. I just said, in that language I don't know how to speak... well, what you just said, but in a different language from my own. So, the translation here... it doesn't preserve those differences. But... it could have had something to do with how I did know the meaning of those words. I wonder if..."
He spins around.
"Bar, could I borrow a... one of those guidebooks that translate phrases into English for tourists, like... let's say Russian, I don't know a word of Russian, a Russian to English pocket dictionary?"
"A-HA! Oh, that's good. That's something. I just said, in that language I don't know how to speak... well, what you just said, but in a different language from my own. So, the translation here... it doesn't preserve those differences. But... it could have had something to do with how I did know the meaning of those words. I wonder if..."
He spins around.
"Bar, could I borrow a... one of those guidebooks that translate phrases into English for tourists, like... let's say Russian, I don't know a word of Russian, a Russian to English pocket dictionary?"
Of course. Here is just such a thing.
unblinkered
"Good, thanks, so I'll just read off something at rand-"
Oh. Wait. There is a flaw in this experimental setup. A flaw that reads "Where is the nearest restaurant? <-> Where is the nearest restaurant?"
"That's... this is not going to work."
Oh. Wait. There is a flaw in this experimental setup. A flaw that reads "Where is the nearest restaurant? <-> Where is the nearest restaurant?"
"That's... this is not going to work."
unblinkered
"Okay, this can still work! I... well, maybe. Uh, Bar, does... if I take this book and sort of... lean out the door, so the book is outside, in my world, and read it from there, or... if I hold it open with my foot and stand out there and... question is, what's the limit of the translation effect?"
If you lean out the door, says Bar, with the book beyond the threshold, it will not be translated anymore.
unblinkered
"That's... unexpected, actually. It means... that it's the book being translated, not my brain seeing the words differently. Which... if two people can read the same book at once, it'd mean they'd see... well, never mind. Let's test this."
He walks up to the door and covers the English half of one page, then holds the book out the door and... oh. Right. Russian uses a different alphabet. He sits down and pores over the pronunciation guide for a minute, then selects a different random word.
He strolls back up to the bar and declares "картофель!"
He walks up to the door and covers the English half of one page, then holds the book out the door and... oh. Right. Russian uses a different alphabet. He sits down and pores over the pronunciation guide for a minute, then selects a different random word.
He strolls back up to the bar and declares "картофель!"
small_magics
If you want one, the bar says, you may have to produce a complete sentence and a quantity of money depending on how you want it cooked.
"Potato," says the elf. "Perhaps there is a purpose to this exercise that eludes me."
"Potato," says the elf. "Perhaps there is a purpose to this exercise that eludes me."
unblinkered
"Potato," he repeats. "So this place translates whether or not anyone in it actually knows the meaning of the word. But," he continues, "If I say-" he rattles off a string of gibberish- "- then it's not going to mean anything, even though somewhere in some universe it probably sounds like something in their language. So it knew "potato", it knew that was Russian, because..."
small_magics
"I suppose this would be interesting if you hoped to exploit the environment to evade large amounts of difficult translation work," says the elf. "It seems unlikely to matter for the purposes of casual conversation; it is a highly effective utility and cannot be brought home, so..."
unblinkered
"No, you don't understand! This... it means something's watching, it can infer things from context! There was no Russian-knowing mind here, just like there's no gibberish-knowing mind to translate the gibberish- but it knew anyway! There's just the dictionary- it can see, oh, he was using a Russian dictionary, so he spoke something in Russian... Bar, I'm assuming you don't handle the translation yourself?"
I do not, but I am, technically, a Russian-knowing mind, chides the bar.