Carlota is pretty sure that the reason Cotonnet didn't introduce rules of order more complicated than "raise your placard to be called on, stand in line to speak" is because that is already more than the unlettered delegates can cope with, as evidenced by the fact a number of them have been shouting out of order. She would ordinarily be all in favor of replacing those rules with more complicated ones, as this advantages that set of the delegates who aren't mentally incompetent, but she notices that the woman has snuck an enormous amount of authority for the Archmage Cotonnet into her purported 'rules of order' and that needs pushing back on. 

"This downright Asmodean proposal purports to merely make the convention orderly. But I observe that it further grants the Archmage Cotonnet the discretion to compel our attendance whenever and however he pleases. Her Majesty of course possesses that authority, but I see no signs she intended to grant it with no bounds whatsoever to Archmage Cotonnet merely because he has experience running conventions. And that it further grants the Archmage Cotonnet the authority to determine the outcome of every vote, with no constraints that he do so in line with the will of the body; that he has the sole discretion to appoint all members to all committees on whatever grounds he pleases, and otherwise is effectively a declaration that every feature of this convention ought to amount to 'the Archmage does as he desires'. Not only is this unreasonable, I suspect that it is not even the desire of the Archmage. If he wished to write his own constitution and send it to the Queen for her consideration he could have done so. The decisions that your clever code of laws defers to him are rightly ours."

"I learned quite recently and to my distress that some people were brought here against their will! I think the first act of this convention should be to release them from bondage and let them all go home."

The rules seem reasonable?  Except they are coming for a woman Thea knows is a diabolist lawyer, so there has to be a trap.

She feels like an idiot when she hears the duchess point out the catch.  Compared to the duchess's rather blatant scheme this one is subtle.  But kind of pointless?  The Archmage already holds all the power he could need or want, what is the trick or trap in giving him some back?  If he wants the power back, he could just take it?  Still, having missed one layer of the trap Thea doesn't trust her own judgement about the trap anymore.  Thea would almost rather take an open trap from the duchess than a seemingly harmless diabolist trap.  She should bring Dia with her, lots of nobles brought servants.

Perhaps she should speak in favor of the duchess?  To signal that she doesn't resent the Duchess's scheme?  Or would that seem to be rubbing it in?  She decides if someone speaks against the duchess or in favor of the lawyer's rules, she'll speak up then.

And shit, someone is trying to get rid of the sortition candidates... which Thea isn't sure but she thinks shifts power to the nobility.  Or do peasants and commoners in general instinctively obey their nobles?  She will say something about that if no one else does.

It would hardly do for her to disregard her own rules, so she gives it a bit before seeking the floor again. She took some quick shorthand notes during the Duchess's remarks, and glances at them briefly.

"President Cotonnet, to my understanding, possesses the authority to compel attendance, unless attendance at this session alone discharges all obligation which if true I have not heard, as well as possessing other authority which my proposed Rules merely acknowledge and set into letters for avoidance of doubt. If the President is not to determine the outcome of each vote, who is to so determine? If the President is not to choose the membership of committees, to that extent to which they are not self-selected, who is to so choose? And moreover, if the President declare the outcome of a vote to be affirmative, who is to gainsay him? If the President disallow a committee, who is to gainsay him? None are. It is true that a wicked President might pervert this assembly to his own desires; would he not do so with or without my orderly Rules? I thus rejoice that the President is wise and just."

She'll ignore the aspersions on her character; after all, they aren't even true. It was a Mephistophelan proposal.

Okay now Thea will speak up.

"You may be right that none can truly gainsay the President, but why formally cede power back to him if the power is already his?  Indeed, as the Duchess already suggested, he already had what power he desired and deliberately gathered this convention to hear our counsel.  So...  if you speak again, perhaps you could elaborate on a reduced set of rules without such excess deferrals to the President?"

And maybe that will make the trap clearer?  But maybe she should be shutting this down instead of giving the Lawyer even more of a platform?  Too late now...

"To who other than the President could the power to run this convention be deferred? Why, to us, the people to whom the Queen intended to defer it! Committee members may be selected by the recommendation of at least five other delegates, and should too many qualify in that matter, by lots. Votes can be counted by the clerk, and recorded publicly to ensure that every delegate's vote is recorded as they intended it, and any deception identified immediately. Some members are gathered here by summons of the Queen, who has the authority to issue summonses to her subjects, and also the authority to grant any other party the authority to issue summonses in her name, but certainly the Archmage has no such authority save if the Queen chooses to authorize him in issuing her summonses."

Thea mentally counts the people she has met over the past month.  She can make 5 probably.  Any well connected noble can.  Chosen of bigger churches can.  But the sortition delegates, dragged as they were into this with less preparation time or connections to fall back on, almost certainly not.  And depending on how much work the elected have put it, they may not be able to either.  She's not going to speak against the Duchess though, it serves Thea's own purpose well enough if some of the masses are weeded out... Thea just needs to remember to win over their vote before the final constitution.

Taís likes the suggestion about allowing her to go home, but she isn't sure if that's the sort of suggestion where if you say you agree with it you get executed for desertion.

Fernando had been content to let other say their piece.  He would get onto a committee and prove his loyalty there.  But if membership were to require votes, he would have a problem, he doesn't have anyone who will vote for him.  He breathes to calm himself and prays to whatever god listens that he does not stutter.

"I think if so much of the constitution is to be decided by committee, we should not exclude anyone that is willing to participate.  This process is intended for every citizen here!  I propose uh, uh... we allow everyone who wishes to participate in a given committee in, and then, should it prove too large for its members and chair to handle, split the committee into relevant subtopics, decided by committee vote!"

Hearing his own idea out loud... it sounds chaotic, which might be bad, and Galtan, which means it is loyal, right?  And most importantly will guarantee he can get on at a committee without anyone actually wanting him there.

"I'm not opposed to requiring allied votes to populate a committee in principle, but the Duchess's proposal would defy the structure of the convention! To have a committee filled by anyone with five friends present could quickly mean a single group dominated a committee. This is clearly not the intention of Her Majesty or President Cotonnet, or else why would we be divided in four equal groups when called here? No, clearly any committee must select at least one delegate from among the clergy, those elected, those with noble titles, and those chosen by sortition, to be considered a proper deliberative body capable of carrying out part of this Convention's duties. And to avoid confusion, best refuse to count those who technically fall into two categories, such as myself."

...why is he actively trying to make it hard for the convention to be organized in a sensible way? He's not one of the random monsters or peasants!

"If by 'refuse to count' you mean to abstain from committees, I think that would be appropriate for any person representing a god of Hell such as yourself. 

 But I think it is natural that people who bring the Queen different knowledge and different backgrounds may have differences in which committees are of interest to them, and it would be unfortunate to limit, say, the number of former slaves on the committee about slavery lest they find few nobles who wish to sit on it, or the number of nobles sitting on a committee about taxation of the nobility for lack of religious members interested in attending - I note that many of the churches could not spare all of the representatives to which they are entitled, probably because in our homes our people are dying for their absence."

"Certainly there are difficulties if only preexisting coalitions dominate every movement -" since the Galtophiles haven't gotten enough Republican-sympathetic allies yet "- but also the duchess is wise, because expert knowledge is needed on some affairs. I wouldn't want men with no experience of war interfering with the armies, nor those who know little of the gods making laws about religion, and likewise those of us who have never been enslaved do not have the expertise what slavery is like. But there are slaves and priests and generals and nobles and burghers and wizards in every archduchy of the realm, and so instead I propose that each committee has one representative from at least five of the nation's great divisions,* so that the whole realm can be represented, not merely those with kin and comrades at home in Westcrown."

(*: A preexisting term for all the big regions that includes the personal union of Isger, the crownlands of the Heartlands and doesn't claim the Hellcoast has an Archduke.)

"You misunderstand me, then, Duchess. What I said was that the initial group of a committee must contain at least one delegate chosen by sortition, at least one who sits as a priest of one of the invited gods, at least one who holds a noble title, and at least one who is elected and not any of the former three. If it does not contain these, it does not represent the convention, and so it is not a valid committee and its deliberations and reports are not part of the record of the convention, merely some conversations as private individuals. I would suggest that additionally a committee must contain five, or perhaps seven, individuals, to begin its work, and only from there may the committee vote to add further members or begin to write its notes, which would allow additional representation where particular groups are highly significant. For regional divisions, I am not particularly opposed, but too many requirements will quickly grow unwieldy and the procedure that chose us was balanced first by type of citizen, so if we must keep only some, it is more orderly to favor the citizen balance first."

"And of course it would be equally out of line with the formation of the convention to exclude from committees anyone permitted to take their seat in this hall. Certainly that flower beast that claimed a valid election and arrived in Westcrown cannot sit on a committee, but neither is it sitting among us as a delegate to the convention. Any who are approved to be a delegate must be permissible as a committee member; Her Majesty, our President, and their allies of the War have already passed their judgment."

Oh, the duchess doesn't misunderstand. She thinks the commoners don't know enough math or logic to tell the difference. But it's almost more terrifying that there's someone in this room actually talking sense. Like, not 'let's maybe not all murder each other' sense, but, like sense that both might be some attempt to include more people in the task they are ostensibly here for, and might manage to elude a particularly thoughtful six year old. There's some catch, surely, but she doesn't see it. Easier to control commoners? Probably, but that's only a quarter of people. - Oh, no, he said it, he doesn't know anyone and doesn't want the people who do getting to make all of the decisions. Elected, so he's in by raw talent for convincing people who don't know him to agree with him anyway.

Well. She doesn't know anyone, either.

She takes very quick notes, and when next at the floor, looks over them for a bit longer.

"Regarding the formation of committees, it seems to me that we need avoid two sorts of error: that a committee be too few, amounting to a mere handful of Members, and that a committee though it be numerous, be imbalanced towards a single interest. That the President fill a committee past the number of Volunteers, I had intended to check these errors" well, she didn't think of the second one at all, but it fits "but I hear the words of that learned Priest and would amend my proposed Rules that the proportions of Members on a committee, by title, priesthood, election, and sortition, be in the same equal proportion as the Membership itself, such proportion being already judged good and proper by Her Majesty."

"Regarding the powers of the President, if it satisfy those who mistrust that blameless archmage who now presides, I would amend my proposed Rules to add the redundancy that the President count votes and exercise other powers justly and honestly, which seems to me excessive flattery of that good man but is scarcely a lie. That votes may be taken by the Roll is already provided for in said Rules, and I dispute its necessity for all votes, though it be desirable on matters of import."

She reads some amendments:

VII Voting
that Questions before the Convention be decided by Vote, which the President shall call for at the close of Debate, by his just and fair determination that enough has been said, and the results of which he shall fairly and honestly determine and announce;

VIII.i Committee Membership
that a Committee being formed, its Members be chosen in proportions equaling the proportions of the whole Body, of title, priesthood, election, and sortition, first from Volunteers, and if the number or proportion not satisfy the President, chosen by him from all Members;

IX Conclusion
that all submit to the will of Her Majesty the Queen, and Julien Camille Élie Cotonnet her appointed President who exercises his powers justly and honestly, holding it above all else, and each do his duty piously and faithfully.

She'll scrivener's them around too, if they keep the paper and ink flowing! It's really satisfying to cast.

Seems like someone is trying to make sure the commoners aren’t fully left out of the room. Doesn’t mean this priest is a friend to the people, but he seems more like one than the others.

Enric isn’t ready to draw attention yet, but he’s keeping an eye on Theopho and sometimes visibly nodding at key points in the argument.

"By a fascinating oversight you've forgotten in your amendments that many of this body objected to granting this foreign archmage the unbounded privilege to kidnap any Chelish person at any time. I must urge you to remember to correct that one also, and to correct your committee apportionment proposal, which is even more untenable than the one the good representative of Hell put forth in that it obliges all committees to maintain a perfect balance in members when the four estates present are not at all balanced in size.

But in truth, even were you now to propose an amendment with such rules, I would urge this body to reject your rules in the entire, because one should not, having spotted many diabolical and Asmodean tricks in a contract, then sign it on the presumption one spotted them all. Those matters you raised in which there is other interest can be written by someone with a better memory and a more honest pen."

Deeply weird for her to act as though kidnapping people was a privilege granted to the archmage, by some other person, as opposed to being the obvious prerogative of any archmage who cares to. Really this convention is pretty much a best-case scenario as far as being kidnapped by archmages goes. 

"Would you stop calling me that if I paid one of our Abadaran delegates to give me their truth-spell and verify that I am not, nor have I ever been after childhood, an Asmodean, Miss representative for presumptuousness?"

"I understand you to worship the Mistress of Dis, my lord, not Asmodeus, and if under a truth spell you deny any such association I will offer this whole body my abject apologies, as to make such an accusation wrongly would be a terrible evil."

Joan-Pau thinks he wants to have a chat with this Erecuran after the day's work is over.

An infernal cleric in the convention? Mmm. Drevnic knows how to deal with infernal clerics.

"I worship the woman who stole immortality from Pharasma and was condemned to Hell for it despite doing nothing Pharasma could judge Evil, and follow her example in giving honest advice even to those I detest when living in unpleasant circumstances. That she is married to Dispater does not reflect on her character or mine, as even Pharasma acknowledges. She does not represent Hell, but contracts with it; I am the same. You lived through the civil war, did you not? Can you honestly say you never allied with Evil for your own self-preservation?"

"Never," she says instantly. "It was the honor of every member of my family down to the smallest children to die rather than compromise with diabolists."