"Isn't the very fact that we're here, experiencing this conversation, proof that this isn't just a vision? That this is the world that is actually happening, the one that counts? How could this be fake?"

"Don't think about it too hard," Luka says, although Traveler interrupts partway through to launch into a much more animated explanation of how thinking about this question changes the answer. (This might be one of Traveler's special interests.)

"If you would be going to think about that question, and you would be going to introspect effectively, that affects the odds that you will have qualia in a prophecy about you - mostly by increasing them. That being said - all right, so, to fully cover this topic, I should bring you a book - or if I can't bring one, I suppose I could rewrite it - but as far as anyone knows, prophecies do sometimes contain real people." He's leaning forward now. He's very slightly smiling and frowning at the same time. He's paying no attention to Luka. "This isn't the norm, but it doesn't surprise me in a prophecy where the outcome of interest is directly related to what comes of the three of us discussing emotions with one another. But, also, even if you're terrible at introspection and totally wrong about having qualia, there's a sense in which it doesn't matter. If you would say that - if you would ask 'but can't we tell it's not a prophecy because we're conscious?' - then, when someone sees the future, they see a future in which you ask that question. Now, this isn't the best way to catch that you're in a prophecy, but there are ways - for an example that's open to you without, presumably, the ability to see the future yourself, you can consider questions like 'is this very strange, as if someone were trying a lot of different pseudorandom plans looking for one that might work?' and 'is there someone who knows the future involved in the planning of this event or invested in the outcome?' But then you want to make careful choices about whether your behavior in the prophecy should match your actual behavior, which largely depends on your relationship to the seer. Perhaps you should ask what you think the seer wants to achieve - my guess is that whoever it is is looking for a peaceful way to save the world without hurting Luka any more than he's already been hurt, but that's only a guess. They could certainly have other motives."

Luka, still facing away, rolls his eyes. His mouth twitches a little like he might be going to smile or grimace or both.

"You do sound so much like him," he says when Traveler has finished speaking, and for some reason all the apparent relaxation and presentness Traveler was starting to show just vanish at that.

Ramona is furiously taking notes.

She also notices, but doesn't have time to process, Luka's comment and Traveler's response. She'll have to come back to that if she remembers, but first she needs to figure out this seer stuff.

"So let me get this straight."

"You're saying..." -- and she looks down at her notes again -- "that even if this therapy turns out badly, it won't 'count' in some sense, it will be the path not taken?"

She has as many as several additional questions, but she'll make sure she's got that basic idea correct before she asks them.

"From the seer's perspective, yes."

"Right. And it sounds like this particular seer has guaranteed that therapy does not result in Luka killing you, Traveler? But that's not the only bad thing that can happen, at least by my value system. Is there some way for me to find out who the Seer is and what they value? And in particular, if there is some way to steer into futures with no more torture, I'm pretty interested in that."

"I would be surprised if it increased the amount of torture. Other than in the sense that speaking with each other is torture. I don’t know if you have the ability to investigate; I don’t know much about you. The Agency might tell you more than they told us, but I doubt it. I could list seers who exist or used to exist, but I don’t know how helpful that would be."

"Maybe give me an example or two?"

He might cherry-pick, of course, but Ramona's starting from scratch here.

"Myself, a little. A friend who would like to see a peaceful resolution to all this. An old friend of mine and Luka's who is very angry with Luka now. My wife. Luka's late first wife. Of these, I know it’s not me."

"Wow, it seems like there are an awful lot of seers running around. With all of that foresight, why does anything bad ever happen to anyone? It seems like you two have succeeded in harming each other quite a lot."

"We get in each other’s way. And some of us are... not omnibenevolent. And it’s not trivial to see everything you might want to see."

Ramona was ready to reject this case, a few minutes ago, and she's still sorely tempted -- but if it's true that they're in the zone-of-partial-control of powerful precogs, that does potentially change the analysis.

The argument for rejecting the case:

• Her skills really are intended for use within the container of a relatively safe intimate relationship, and break down quickly when there's violence or deception involved. These two definitely employ violence.
• It's a lot of pressure that there's a larger geopolitical situation connected to how the case goes. Ramona does her best work when she can set the terms of the therapy and walk away if the terms are not met; if she lets the argument that some world is hanging in the balance sway her decision now, it will only get harder to hold any sort of line later.
• Who knows what motivations the Seer has, and if they match Ramona's. Maybe her work will only 'count' if one of her clients prevails over the other in a way Ramona doesn't endorse.
• The way Traveler talks is hard to process.

The argument for taking the case:

• Maybe it doesn't matter what she does, because if it goes poorly, it won't count? Though she wonders what happens if this branch is pruned from the tree of reality -- will she remember what happened?
• Maybe there's no one better available, and that's why ATA picked her? (That's probably just her ego talking.)
• What else are these clients going to do? Even though Ramona isn't qualified, it's hard to imagine who would be. This case is impossible to refer out.
• Curiosity No, that's not a good reason.

In the end it's the second-to-last point that seems most important. You're not supposed to take cases outside your scope -- but when you don't take a case, you're supposed to make sure that the clients end up getting help that's better than you are. Ramona can't think of a way to do that here.

She'll take the case. She'll treat it more like a tense diplomatic negotiation than like relationship therapy. And then she'll hope to hell that it's true that it only counts if it goes well. What an amazing deal that is, if she can trust it at all.

"All right. I'll do my best to help, somewhat against my better judgment."

"Really? If it's your better judgment, why are you ignoring it?" He seems amused.

"I can't think of another course of action that is more likely to help."

Which is not quite the same thing as saying she's definitely got this. She does not.

"Maybe making the same stupid choices as us will help you establish rapport." The last couple of words seem like maybe they should be accompanied by jazz hands, but aren't.

Ramona laughs. "Gosh. Thanks for that." This might be the first moment of lightness Ramona has felt since the session started?

"So. It appears that we are doing this."

"Let me go back to the beginning and figure out what exactly it is that we are doing."

"You both said you're very skeptical we can accomplish much of anything at all. Fair enough. So let's not set any goals or expectations."

"But you also said there were things that you would want, if you thought you could have them."

"When you imagine the incredibly far-fetched idea that this therapy could actually, somehow, work -- what does that mean? What would be different between you, after hypothetical highly-unlikely extremely-successful therapy?"

"That question is for each of you."

There's silence for a while before Traveler answers. "I don't know. I could say that I want him to offer me his parole, but I don't think I would trust it, and I don't think it would be entirely fair to ask it of him, and I find it hard to imagine that he would give it while still having the qualities I admire in him. We talked about making the world a better place, a long time ago, and we worked toward that for a while, and I wish he still cared about that, but I don't think that would help much. I wish he thought it was worth fighting for a better future. I wish you, with your outside perspective, had a brilliant idea for what to do with his son, whom I am also imprisoning; Luka wants to break him out and I am concerned that he, too, would cause problems. I would prefer it if Luka didn't commit any more murders. I would prefer it if Luka could be trusted to help improve the world. I would like it if he would ask his daughter to release my son, who is also imprisoned. I would like him to make right everything he's broken or damaged or ruined. And... I would also like to understand why he has done what he has done and what he wants. And I wish I could find - whatever it is that he's forgotten, or lost, the loss of which has led him to give up on the world, and I wish I could bring it back to him."

"Sweetheart," Luka says venomously, "if you want to understand I'm perfectly willing to torture you for a millennium."

"Luka." Ramona's voice is quiet, but firm. "No violence or threats of violence in my therapy room, please. It is not too late to call it off."

He makes an extremely innocent face. "I'm sure I was only offering to give him what he wants."

(Traveler laughs once.)

Ramona doesn't speak yet, just gazes at Luka.

She can't tell what's up with Luka's vision. He seems to be blind, but he also seems well aware of what's happening in the room. He can probably sense that Ramona would be making eye contact with him, if only he could return it.