"My empire has a lower crime rate than Valinor ever managed even with the mind control but - it's not zero - are the Valar just usually better at changing everyone around -"

"No, they usually don't have that much of a target."

" - so - we're worse - and they tried to handle it more aggressively than the other sets needed to?"

"It's possible that the Valar aren't different at all from baseline, yeah, although it's not the only possibility."

"This does not make me enthusiastic about inviting a more competent set in."

"I can see why you'd react that way but the things they are more competent at are not mind control."

"Would they be willing to stop Melkor and then leave us alone? We sacrificed a lot to build a society not ruled by them and would not be eager to see that undone."

"They might, we'd have to ask - our Ulmo is usually on Endorë but they are overall less active there - I imagine they'd have some concern for the state of your Valinor and want to talk to their alts even if they didn't mind leaving your polity alone."

"It's obviously better than not stopping Melkor but with all the time in the world I do wonder if we can just do it ourselves."

"Maybe. My Valar might end up spread pretty thin anyway."

Nod. "Okay, so - after Melkor kills my grandfather there's a civil war, is that everywhere or just us..."

"Just you."

"Okay. Uh, I end it, we cross to Endorë, we win some battles and besiege him and there's four hundred years of relative peace..."

"Crossing and siege is standard - how'd you get there -"

"The Teleri lent us the swanships."

"Well, that's actually an improvement."

" - what usually happens -"

"Usually they decline to do that, there's a fight about it, the Noldor win and steal the ships and thousands die, and rather than go back for Nolofinwë's faction Fëanáro sets them on fire on the far shore and a bunch of people cross the Ice. There's an equivalent in standard chip Ardas too."

" - my father was already dead. So was Nolofinwë."

"Among the leadup disappearances -?"

"Ah, no, Nolofinwë had my father assassinated and then I had him assassinated when I ended the civil war."

"I assure you it was not on my top hundred forty-four ways of solving the problem. Hundreds of people were dying in clashes in the streets every day - I should have acted sooner but I kept hoping better choices would conveniently present themselves -"

"...the two of them do come very close to violent conflict in standard versions but not - like that -"