This about Lastwall - it is, surprisingly for a knight order bereft its chief sponsor and situated in a relatively unprosperous part of the continent, extremely wealthy. It is Lastwall, of all the forces on the continent, that receives the donation of every country unwilling or unable to commit to directly fight at the worldwound but that still desires not to be eaten by demons. It is Lastwall that receives the questionably gained gold of a thousand adventurers, magnates, and warlords concerned about their alignment and desperate to evade the pit. It is Lastwall that, during the glory days of the Chelish empire in the lead up to Aroden's folly, received a fortune in magical items, and it is Lastwall that inherited most of the assets of the Shining Crusade.

This also about Lastwall - they spend a lot of money, too. They are a small country that has taken on five different tasks, each of which individually by all rights ought to be too much for it to handle, and cannot set them down without great cost. They are perpetually short in manpower, martial might, diplomatic weight, and a dozen other necessities to which they must pour the vast majority of this river of gold they receive to stem. This habit is indeed why donating to the church of Iomedae is the most reliable way to turn gold into good at any scale. Their mission does not permit them to waste it on frivolities or monuments to ego.

This is not to say Lastwall is ugly, or in ill repair. They are well aware of the positive effect that beauty has upon people, and the ability to hire Shelynite followers at bargain prices is no small aid here. Likewise they are constantly aware of how their image does, indeed, reflect on how seriously other nations take their mission and correspondingly how likely they are to go along with it. In search of this as much as efficiency, the capital of Lastwall has styled itself in the style of military practicality, with defenses that serve double weight to both dissuade attack by the forces of evil and to show that that is what it does, allowing them to at least lose less without having to sink a sizable chunk of their fortune into monuments, cathedrals, and other standard architectural great works. They're very aware of the incentives this can create, but they're careful about it and sometimes the appearance of the thing really is as important as the function.

For someone who lives in an information-era civilization and who spends much of their time in the space-age civilization hidden within it, it's not exactly impressive. Even the Senzu Clan base of Heramere keep, itself a military relic of a time where technology was even less advanced that Golarion's present, is more imposing. (Of course, that base was constructed with both technology and strength well beyond those publicly admitted to, but let's not sweat the details).

It's got a quaint charm to it, though, and she knows enough about that era's military situation to at least understand the purpose of most of it.

She can stick around while they do some regenerations and a letter from the garrison is handed off to give context to whatever the sending said, and shortly afterword she'll be introduced to Eulalia Serven, the 6th circle cleric of Iomedae who happened to have the most diplomatic experience of those in the city. They'd have picked someone with a high ranking as well if they could, since some high level casters tend to get offended if you try to have them meet with someone sufficiently "beneath them," but those are mostly uncorrelated from spells outside of the obvious exception of Queen Galfrey and the spell part tends to be more important than any noble ranks with wizards. Queen Galfrey also represents Mendev regardless, not Lastwall, but that wouldn't stop them from getting her aid if it was in fact needed; neither branch of Iomedaens is in the business of losing for no good reason, or indeed any reason at all if they can possibly help it.

"Hello! I'm told you're a powerful caster from another world, here to ask us some questions about Hell, and that you currently need to possess someone to communicate?"

(She's got Tongues active, of course; Karen seemed to understand them just fine earlier but it would be, in fact, incredibly silly to rely on that for no reason and have it fail on them in some regard. The marginal cost of a tongues cast in Lastwall is essentially a rounding error for this meeting.)

Oh good, they're competent. Kakara is not in fact certain that an alien visitor could reliably can a meeting with their government inside an hour even if they tried, and that's with them not needing to sleep and employing hundreds of seers.

"The ride-along is not strictly necessary, especially for short periods, but it's very advantageous at the moment with my own body unavailable. I could leave and keep talking with you, particularly if it's for a short conversation, but I'm not visible to most people so it's not entirely clear how much that would help. And yes, I am from another world, I'm not exactly a caster as you seem to think about them but that gets most of the idea across, and I have some questions on the subject I would like answered, if you could."

She'll leave figuring out the exact details to Lastwall's wizards and researchers then, in that case, plus its strategists if that becomes relevant. Pretty much any information Karen could ask for would be covered already anyway; the price for getting a team of adventurers to fight off a Gallu is incredibly high even when it's not short notice or at the head of an army, and Lastwall is not in the business of shortchanging people who helped them for the sin of not haggling before helping in a time critical situation.

"For this conversation, it would be appreciated, but going forward it shouldn't be an issue and we won't insist on in this case even if it might effect what we're willing or permitted to share."

With her she has a set of goggles of True Seeing, one of several owned by Lastwall; the effect within is, in the cases it proves necessary, astoundingly useful, and the cost of 6th level spells to imitate the effect starts at exorbitant and moves up from there. This particular model is Chelish, from about 300 years ago, but that's not terribly relevant in this case.

She'll step out, then; a show of good faith could go a long ways, and she's not, in fact, very nervous about this. It never pays to be too sure with magic users but between their power levels and the displays of magic she saw earlier she's not too worried about it even if her read of their opinion is totally wrong in every regard, and she's basically certain it's not. If her sight weren't blocked or she was willing to read minds, she could be more certain, but that kind of gilding the lily is unneccesary.

They sure do show up in True Seeing! Aura sight says overwhelmingly powerful neutral good, which yup, tracks with the 9th circle caster ghost hypothesis and is the second best result you could hope for.

The neutral evil ghost? dragon on her shoulder might be a bit less encouraging. The aura is rather faint, especially against the background good, but still detectable. If they've got Arcane Sight up they'll also see a transmutation/abjuration effect on it, and Greater Arcane Sight will reveal both that it seals away the dragon's power and (with sufficient skill) a very faint conjuration/transmutation effect on her.

They've got Arcane Sight, but not Greater Arcane Sight; as far as they can see, Kakara has no spell effects or magic items on her, which means Greater Magic Aura and some paranoia. Not mind blank though, or they wouldn't get the alignment out of aura sight.

The Dragon rates an assessing glance and a hint of a frown. That's not what a baby dragon looks like, even size aside, but what it does look for all the world like is a very tiny version of a very old dragon.

Kakara cringes; she might not be aware that alignment even exists, but she remembers keenly how the petitioners in line for judgment reacted when they saw her together with Dazarel's spirit and thought she'd died killing him.

"Yes, that's Dazarel, yes, I'm aware of what he did. But I have him very thoroughly subdued and he knows what will come of it if he tries anything, even if something happened to me first. He's not a risk, and in this form he's still somewhat useful to keep around."

Wizards.

The name Dazarel isn't ringing a bell, although she does make sure to remember it to ask their archivists and historians to look into later, since Karen seems to expect him to be recognizable on sight. They'll probably need to talk to angels as well in order to get anywhere on it, but it's at least worth trying to save Heaven's intervention budget. What is pretty clear is that this Dazarel is or was an powerful evil dragon that did a lot of harm before being captured, and is the kind of person where keeping their company is very much not a good sign for your character. That being said, turning an evil dragon into a familiar isn't even the stupidest thing in that category done by a wizard she's personally met, and in fairness 'within arms reach of the wizard that defeated him in the first place' is not the worst place to put a defeated evil dragon she can think of.

"We will trust your judgment on that for now," she responds, rather more diplomatically. "The church of Iomedae is of course happy to learn anything you wish to share about other worlds to add to our archives, but if you would prefer to skip straight to your questions that won't be an issue."

Ah, a church. Kakara somehow hadn’t expected the Knights of Ozem to also be a church, even though in retrospect she’d been ignoring quite a bit of religious iconography. She knew it happened at least sometimes back on Earth, but Garenhuld didn’t tend to go for that kind of thing and what records they have of Vegeta suggested the same was true there, even accounting for the fact that any Saiyans who worshipped a god would be a martial order essentially by default. Hopefully this will be less awkward than interacting with the ancestor cult, and given that she is not currently being quasi-worshiped as a demigod she’ll choose to remain optimistic.

“I’ve been considering a plan that involves me traversing Hell, for reasons I’d rather not get into. I am aware of how, even with my present level of strength, this is not exactly advisable, but I have good reason for it and no easy alternatives. I’m hoping to rectify the specific flaw where I have an incomplete understanding of the dangers involved and who I will encounter there, but if you have additional advice on weaknesses or on ways to avoid detection those would also be of some value to me.”

Well, that's certainly ambitious, particularly given the fact that she seems to plan to do it in person. Eulalia did not in fact swear an oath not to speculate on the goal thereof, or even imply they wouldn't do so, but she's still a cleric of Iomedae. When a potential ally reaches out to you in good faith for mutual benefit, you don't take actions that would predictably cause them to regret reaching out to you even if they aren't very powerful in their own right. She'll consider the matter only insofar as it it necessary to answer the questions asked, and not share any of what she does realize, until such a time as Karen informs her or otherwise indicates that it is no longer something she would rather not get into. She is in fact curious about it, just not the kind of curious that would make her take leave of her senses.

As such, she can can start outlining the 9 planes of Hell, starting with Avernus, a desolate land of volcanoes and endless desert where damned souls first arrive after judgment and largely inhabited by lesser devils of one sort or another, the most common of which are bearded devils. All devils are immune to fire and poison, and resist both acid and cold, but are of course vulnerable to good-aligned attacks. They have some maps of Avernus, or at least the parts reachable by from Golarion, and some intelligence as to who reigns where, though these records are rather incomplete and dated. Probably much of the more basic information is already known to Karen, but it doesn't pay to assume.

This was super not known to Kakara, actually. She didn't even know Hell had 9 layers, as it happens, nor the population to support them, and she's much more glad she didn't decide to go dive right in. On Garenhuld, their main attestations on the afterlife come from the Z fighters, and while Vegeta did in fact die twice while hellbound he didn't actually make it past judgment either time before coming back. And sure, most people either make it to the otherworld or have their souls cleansed to try again, but the universe is a big place; when you're dealing with a population of trillions, even a small portion adds up to hell probably having a lot of people. It does make her kind of sick to her stomach to think of. The details on the devils within are also appreciated; she does know of any examples, but "the demons and makai encountered by at least one Z fighter" is hardly likely to offer a representative example.

She had kind of thought there would be more in the way of extremely powerful former evil mortals mucking around too? Sure, Frieza is back in the world of the living these days, but there's people like Cell where she would expect even the Makaioshin to have some difficulty keeping under control.

"When they arrive in Hell, petitioners largely largely lack all of the abilities they had in life, and depending on the time will have some difficulty regaining them; unlike, say, Heaven, Asmodeus is largely uninterested in letting them regain them except insofar as he can bend them to his service. Most such souls either fall in line and are transformed into devils or are kept imprisoned."

Her use of the term Makaioshin doesn't really register as something worthy of notice; it smoothly translates as meaning "chief evil god / king of the evil gods" and applies perfectly as an epithet for the entity they know as the Prince of hell.

"Various Devils and cults of Asmodeus might imply that especially capable lawful evil souls can expect to earn a high place in hell, but unless they make specific arrangements beforehand the most common fate for them is the same as any other soul so damned, and they're just tortured forever if they aren't lucky enough to have some devil find a use for them."

What.

Kakara knew she didn't have the details on Hell. She expected to learn she was wrong in her assumptions about its geography, the disposition of its inhabitants, its dangers. But she does not in fact know nothing about Hell, and this doesn't fit. Either these people don't have the slightest clue what they're talking about - which isn't impossible, Kakara is good at noticing when people lie but less good when they don't even know they're lying, even if the sight did lead her here - or essentially everything she knows about the afterlives are wrong, which is rather unlikely given that she's been there, both to heaven itself and recently to meet King Yenma, and she's pretty sure it would have rated a mention. Even if it was normally some kind of secret, he wouldn't have then offered to let her go through it, if keeping it from her was that important, and regardless of if she had died doing it or not she would have ended up in Son Gohan's divine realm afterward to talk about it.

Which means as unlikely as it seems, it probably has to be the former, except...

There's been this wiggling note of confusion that's been with her through this whole conversation. She activates the Sight, to determine how to she could get to Garenhuld from here if she so chose.

Oh.

"I'm not in universe 7 anymore, am I."

As nonsequitors go, that's a pretty baffling one, especially since it's not exactly clear what triggered it. It's the kind of confusion that's so far from what you're expecting to anchor on that you can't, actually, sincerely try to dispel it, because it's not exactly clear what kind of schema you would get such that you both number universes and that one of the ones where people live on would be number 7. You could argue for the classification of the planes as universes in their own right, but that still doesn't get you anything mistakable for the material as number 7, and it's not just a mistranslation of worlds since her being from another one was the first thing she introduced herself with.

But what Lastwall does not have, in the context of important strategic conversations or payment to those who have done them a great service, is much in the way refraining from asking useful questions because it might make you look silly or foolish. They're aware of this human instinct, but it is one they have worked to thoroughly train out, because some things are just more important than your pride.

"I'll confess, I'm not sure where or what universe 7 is such that you could be in it or not. But if it's the kind of place where you would expect everyone within to know that, it is not. By our own reckoning, Lastwall is a country on the continent of Avistan of planet Golarion, which is located within the prime material plane of Pharasma's creation."

"It is not; there are many people within what we call universe 7 which would not know themselves to be such. In our understanding of our cosmology, there are twelve universes, each assigned a number, and the universes whose sum add up to 13 are paired; our universe 7 is matched with universe 6, for instance. Within each universe there is a Kaioshin, who creates worlds, kais, and so forth while acting as its chief god, and a Hakaioshin, who largely destroys worlds according to their own whims or desires."

She does not, in fact, actually hate Beerus, but she's hardly in the business of endorsing his decisions.

"Each of these universes has their own living world where mortals reside, and their own unique afterlife system. I know some things about my own world's system and could thereby also make educated guesses about that of Universe 6, but I know next to nothing about any of the others. What struck me, and caused me to attempt to discern the location of the planet I came from relative to here, was the bit about eternal torture. We don't do that to anyone, as far as I am aware, much less most people sent to Hell. Hell is not exactly pleasant or safe, but this... doesn't fit. My search parameters that brought me here were an attempt to learn more of my own universe's hell so I could cross through it safely and get training in Heaven, but this seems like it might actually be much more important."

If she does get involved here, she's going to have to be so careful. In another universe, however she ended up here, her Grandfather's protection means a lot less, and dying here might mean she never gets to see anyone she knows ever again, not to mention potentially leaving her home in the hands of that bitch indefinitely if the Sensu clan and Maya don't manage to do something about it without her. But while she won't deny her own willingness to prioritize those close to her... she's not in fact the kind of person who can abandon people, even shitty people, to be tortured forever. Kakara will make sure this is true. She'll try to negotiate, if the slightest opportunity emerges. But like a shooting star blazing through the sky, this isn't a path she can turn aside from; Kakara is not the kind of person to look away from this kind of injustice, not even if it means burning herself up in the process.

(And besides, a darker part of her notes, even the gods fear the Enemy. If she was ever to overturn her people's doom, she would require this kind of strength regardless).

Out of all the places in Golarion, inside Her temple in Her country speaking with one of Her strongest clerics is one of the places where Iomedae's vision is clearest and Her observation cheapest. A fragment of Her was watching this conversation, though not in communication with the greater whole, and while Neutral Good is not the clearest to Her, She could in time expect to understand most of what went on here. (This isn't, in the usual sense, a violation of the implied secrecy. If specifically requested, She would keep it in confidence even from all of her, but She's just not the kind of shape that can adversely utilize an offer reached out in good faith.)

In the face of what is suddenly one of the brightest stars in the constellation of Golarion, this is wholly unnecessary. Unless She were to turn away from the world at least as thoroughly as Shiziru, she could not help but notice it. Normally this would be where She dropped a few Paladin levels, but She can also see clearly enough to know that it would be basically pointless. Kakara's energy is more boundless than the sea, qualitatively a mere half step away from becoming that of a demigod and quantitatively even greater than Her own. Instead, She weaves that energy and intervention budget-

:Hello, Kakara:

-and across cross from her in the vision is a woman in armor, with the same insignia used as several of the people she met at the fortress and in Lastwall. Chelish, not that Kakara has enough knowledge of Golarion ethnicities to tell beyond that it looks similar to some of the people in the knights of Ozem. The feeling from her is notably lesser than her grandfather's, even while he suppressed it, but clearly to her senses the same kind of power.

Dazarel isn't with her.

"I take it you're Iomedae?"

:Yes. I am Iomedae, the goddess of destroying evil, and one of the many gods that operate on Golarion:

Her Grandfather taught her the proper formalities for speaking with members of the divine bureaucracy, but she's genuinely not sure the same rules apply wherever she is now and she's really not in the mood anyway.

"What's with the whole eternal torture deal, then? Is that something they're just making up?"