“There must have been a moment, at the beginning, where we could have said -- no. But somehow we missed it.”
- Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are Dead
She is, rather exasperatedly, here, hidden, standing ready to read sweet Carissa's mind.
If anybody not being tormented by extrauniversal tropes was producing this much project drama, and taking up this much managerial capacity, Abrogail would just kill them.
Owl's Wisdom.
"You realized in your contemplation of corrigibility that devils are made to lack curiosity," states Rugatonn.
- that devils are made to lack curiosity. - oh, that explains - the question that'd nagged her since Keltham showed them dath ilan, why Hell wasn't richer, why it hadn't invented already all there was to be invented, why a world of mortals could build taller towers -
Did she have a crisis just over that? She - maybe if she hit it exactly wrong? Curiosity is - it's more of a thing to stamp out of yourself than muddleness or disobedience, it's the part of you that sees and seizes opportunity, it's the part in Keltham that said the instant he arrived in Golarion that it seemed there'd been some kind of mixup and maybe it was a profitable one - it's the thing, in her, that hungered for what he knew -
- well, she knew she wasn't a devil -
Carissa imagines being incurious. Imagines hearing what Rugatonn told her and not wondering what the fuck she put in the fucking letter about this, imagines not wondering why Asmodeus made that choice or if it could be changed now - presumably the dukes of Hell aren't like lesser devils in this way, right, notably they mostly were not raised from the ranks of the lesser devils and - and maybe that's why, because you need curiosity to see openings in unexpected places - maybe dying and going to Hell is the wrong route to becoming a duke of Hell and she should really have thought about that sooner except for the thing where it went from being a joke to being not entirely a joke without, at any point, an explicit moment of decision -
- Asmodeus said come to me without thought of other choices and you will be the most treasured of my possessions that probably includes other choices like 'ascending in a thousand years as a lich' as well as other choices like 'as a candidate duke of Hell' how do you actually be a candidate duke of hell it's not that it wasn't meant to be an absurd ambition she was not actually working on but she should really have thought at all about what she wanted and whether she was on track to get it no that's not her job that's curiosity, thinking about that, her job is project lawful her job is saving cheliax except no one else is trying to see her rise, no one else cares, except the idiots who care because they think she'll protect them -
- no one with power wants to see carissa become a power in hell she has to do that on her own merits without being disobedient without looking at other choices without being curious an impossible handicap she's not sure how that works at all or is it one of those things where that heresy has to be corrected last and she should, be trying, to build curious ilani, knowing Hell will burn it out of them, knowing it's making them less useful to Asmodeus in the long run but more useful to him now but what if they feel betrayed when they figure it out no they're like Pilar Pilar wouldn't feel betrayed - what would Pilar feel maybe Carissa should try feeling that - Pilar would be glad because she hates having to figure out what to do. Carissa is not actually sure she can aspire to that.
what did she write in the fucking letter
She's not thinking she'd rather Axis like Maillol she's not she's not she's not she wouldn't. She'd rather go to Hell and become a devil. She was not under the impression this was fun or easy or rewarding to your starting self-concept if your starting self-concept is more complicated than 'property of Asmodeus' which it shouldn't be.
did she, in the letter, find a solution or did she just - was she stuck like this - she's not stuck like this she's not useless she'll just go seek correction, from the Most High, who is right here, and then she'll be fine.
"You got considerably beyond this mental state, and produced a rather interesting proposal," Aspexia will state, in hopes of hurrying Sevar through this.
Yes, because that is what a reasonable person would do, come up with a plan instead of standing here being upset.
She needs a problem statement if she's going to figure out a solution.
Problem: devils do not have curiosity, a trait which is in tension with being at all ilani, like even a little bit ilani. Side problem which is stupider: this observation destabilizing at least to sufficiently sleep-deprived Carissae.
Solution: She's not immediately thinking of one. Presumably devils are like this because it suits Asmodeus better than devils being some other way. Maybe you could figure out which humans are lowest-curiosity and selectively breed for it but then your country will get taken over by other countries, that's the whole problem, not having curiosity is a concrete disadvantage which must be outweighed among devils by its advantages in terms of predictability and non-catastrophicness of failure modes but it really doesn't work among mortals. Well, maybe she can make her would-be ilani use their creativity so much they grow to despise it about themselves and rejoice in the knowledge it'll be taken from them in Hell -
- her stomach twists -
- she would say that, yeah, Carissa Sevar shouldn't have this information, she's too weak for it, she hasn't grown up enough in her Asmodeanism yet, but that's itself weakness, and she's confused why other-Carissa tolerated it in herself - well, other-Carissa must not have been conceptualizing the plan to wipe her mind of all these errors as weakness. Other-Carissa must have thought this information could be introduced in some way that didn't cause Carissa to have an unproductive internal panic about it.
What would that possibly be, though.
- knowing it wasn't going to happen to her. Unavailable, probably heretical to even want. This should happen to her, it is right for it to do so, she doesn't want it to but it's really just a higher-level impulse of the same instinct by which people desire pleasure and flinch from pain even to the point of insanity.
- knowing it was going to happen to her? Possibly part of the problem here is that she is trying to think of ways out. She's not supposed to try to think of ways out. She was specifically directed not to try to think of ways out. Maybe she needs to hear it laid out for her that under every possible path, she will become a devil, or fail to become one and be a waste of space but she actually thinks she can avoid that, really and that this is true even of Powers in Hell and so it's not as bad as she's mentally building it up to be and is in any event not something she can be tempted to -
- there's a problem statement. If she might avoid this, she is strongly motivated to do so. It will tear her motives away from Asmodeus's, to act against her own interest in not having this happen to her at every chance.
And the higher Wisdom gently says to her, so you could solve this by selling your soul, but you're not-thinking of that option, because you don't want to; and that is the real and terrible danger, that it didn't come faster to mind.
She can't sell her soul. She tried. Though Hell didn't say never, they said something she had to resolve first - maybe something to do with Keltham? Hell doesn't have that much steering power - though it could've been the work of a god that did -
- oh. Keltham told her that if she had some kind of elaborate reason to lie to him about whether she'd sold it, she was a secret cleric. Clerics can't sell their soul. When she realized tropes were real, she should've revisited -
Irori bought her a way out.
nononononono she doesn't want a way out and she doesn't know why he bought it for her. She wants to know her path, so she can apply herself to walking it, instead of having parts of herself curl up and hope she fails to reach the end. Clerics can break the god-connection from their end; presumably she can tell Irori to go to Hell and then do it. It doesn't feel like victory, it feels like a miserable grasping reargard action, but - but maybe that's why she erased it from her mind -
"You were not content with a miserable rearguard action. Sevar, each time you wonder why you finally erased it, you're thinking something you wouldn't have thought of originally."
Yes she's aware and she regrets contaminating the experimental data but she is unfortunately not a devil and doesn't even know how to turn off her curiosity for a little bit when it'd be a good idea!!!! Is there a way to do that? Presumably if there were a way for Hell to do that to mortals Aspexia would have herself some mortals it'd been done to.
Did the other Carissa decide she should just die now, go to Hell, speed-run becoming a devil, and then try this once she was one? No, they don't have the time to spare. It's tempting, though.
Did the other Carissa decide she should fling herself at the Starst- that's plan A with an additional step.
Did the other Carissa decide to become a lich -
- - okay, you know what, renouncing Irori and selling her soul is a miserable reargard action but it's less of one than the other plans she's coming up with. Except Cheliax can't afford for her to sell her soul for its true value, and also Keltham will probably panic if she refunds him the money, which is a move they should keep in their back pocket - not one to never employ, but one to employ strategically only.
- did the other Carissa decide to defect? And Security, not her, used the memory items? It feels terrifyingly plausible, suddenly.
Carissa's internal monologue has decided to stop cooperating.
Probably this will get her tortured a lot and maybe executed, but pointing this out does not make it stop that.
She's actually experimented a bit with Modify Memory, trying the same torture twice to check the reproducibility of her experiments, that sort of thing. You can sometimes get impressively similar chains of thought from people if you're sufficiently careful about reproducing their mental circumstances, which means either not letting them know their memory was erased, or falsely telling them their memory was already erased the first time.
This could be a product of a traitorous Carissa misguessing what her alternate self would believe. Or, unfortunately, it could be the Aspexia Rugatonn presence, and the additional stress, and not being in her bedroom, and her thoughts repeatedly going back to the curious circumstances in which she found herself; and a loyal Carissa being rather misguided about which of her thoughts would reproduce themselves well.
"You used the items, not Security," Aspexia states, allowing a tone of overt exasperation to creep into her voice. "Had you defected, you'd simply have - done what, Sevar?"
Carissa does not want to think about that and is tempted to whimper pathetically 'do I have to?'.
Focus.
If she wanted to defect she could tell Irori and then tell Security to urgently take her to Egorian - like she in fact did - and expect a pickup once she got out of the interdiction. Or she could tell Irori and Abadar and Iomedae and then kill herself. Or she could plausibly just, Glibness up, bluff her way right out of the fortress with a Teleport scroll. Or she could go to Maillol's cell and order the Security out and put the Geas earrings on him and make him Plane Shift her to Axis. Or she could - is that enough can she stop now -
"Yes. You obviously didn't defect; your letter pointed out as much."
"What's better than the miserable rearguard action? You had an interesting idea but you didn't have time to leave key details."
Ascending.
Nope, doesn't work, you can't actually pull that off at fourth circle no matter how clever you think your plan is and also she's not sure it'd be following Asmodeus's instructions.
Wish-kidnapping Keltham back and doing a murder-suicide. That would be cool but not actually advance literally any of their strategic objectives and also requires a Wish.
...selling her soul for three Wishes, Wish-kidnapping Keltham back, using the other two Wishes to do something really cool. take over cheliax she knows she is far too weak to pull that off and doesn't even want to it's just the kind of thing that appears when you try to think of things that would be really cool.
....that devil wanted her to agree to only ask for three Wishes.
Aside from the problem where it'd leave Cheliax in dire straits, how much could she sell for? Five? Ten? Could she go run right into the arms of Asmodeus and ask him for fifty nope definitely not that's a terrible plan that's an amazingly terrible plan that definitely ends in some completely inconceivably awful way. It wouldn't even please Asmodeus.
Could she sell her soul for twenty Wishes, then use them to overthrow Barbatos wow that's also a terrible plan. This is a cruel, cruel question to ask people. She should keep it in mind for if she ever wants to torture someone horribly.
But she's pretty sure that you're out of pathetic rearguard action territory by the time you've arrived at horrifically ill-advised regicide and deicide plans, so, uh, there's that, which will be wonderful comfort when she is tortured horribly for every thought she's just had.
Okay, Aspexia is just going to show Sevar the entire note before they run out of Modify Memory time, and ask if Sevar can reconstruct any part of her Keltham seduction plan.
Most High,
Working on corrigibility, realized devils don't have uncommanded curiosity (further notes on this attached). Had a crisis about this - tell me again with Owl's Wisdom up and watch if you want details. Decided to press on and figure out more, but kept failing Hell's admonition to come to Asmodeus without thought of other choices. Think I should sell my soul before trying to make further progress.
My defection risk aside, realization about uncommanded curiosity implies my value to Hell higher than I thought. Want to sell my soul in a way no mortal has done before: by going to Dis to bargain directly with Dispater and renounce Irori for Asmodeus before him. (yes, I figured that out. you can watch me figure it out with an Owl's Wisdom).
Carissa should be told that she needs 2x +6/+6/+4 headbands and 30 Wishes, where the second portion of those are for Keltham as part of a seduction plan she'll rederive next time she's fully augmented, but though Carissa shouldn't be told it during negotiations, you can step in and tell her it's really okay to settle at anything down to 1x +6/+6 and 10 Wishes, without which Carissa actually will walk out on them and see if she can become more valuable before selling.
Headbands + Wishes for augmentation. Can't beat augmented Keltham with much stupider Carissa, tropes say equals. Wishes used to square payment for Cheliax's spellsilver progress, Keltham quoted 200k for a Wish scroll, can get arbitrator to agree on headband and Hell-Wish prices anchored on that. He might be doing something risky with Wishes, strongly prefer ambiguity interpreted by Hell than by other sources. Do not give Carissa Wish-augmentation immediately. Headband easier to take off if anything goes wrong and less-augmented Carissa safer to closely monitor (close monitoring will be necessary, suspect for INT 29 Carissa only Gorthoklek can do it).
Objection: this bankrupts Cheliax. I have a solution in mind. Want to own all PL souls as a personal vanity; it's the first thing I asked Abarco for when commanded by Hell. Think I should be permitted, if in Hell's interests, to repurchase souls sold in Cheliax at their spellsilver-denominated prices from the original sale though we can now produce spellsilver more cheaply, freeing up budget for my Wishes and headbands and for future soul sales. Would also like to own everyone save you + Majestrix who ever read my mind, if the approach goes through at all, but this is a vanity not a priority.
Objection: probably a traitor's plot. Could trivially have suicided for rez in Osirion, or sought divine attention, or Geased my loyalists.
Objection: then why wipe memory. Think the Carissa who stands before you is more valuable in the eyes of Hell and in her own eyes. Want to be the most valuable version of myself. Think Asmodeus's instruction to come to Him without thought of other choices is important, and am no longer able to do so. Don't want to be distracted by fear of losing my curiosity/etc while selling my soul. Slightly worried further revelations following from these ones really would have broken my loyalty.
- Carissa Sevar
- wow, previous Carissa was notably cooler than her, she wonders what her secret was.
The obvious thing is to conquer a country together. It's a very Lawful Evil thing to do, Keltham does have some inclination to do it, he's stopped cooperating with all these countries probably because he intends to oppose them, maybe she had some idea for how she could help him overthrow Osirion over the sexism, say, or the Padishah Empire over all the child slavery, simultaneously acclimate Keltham to conquest and power and spend time with him where he can appreciate her and also plausibly meet his real need for a country from which he could build Civilization.
If it's not that she's not sure what it is. There's a clarity of vision in the letter that she doesn't feel, and she's not sure why - like there's some piece missing that the other Carissa thought she'd infer immediately -
Tap Sevar with Splendour and a Lesser Restoration, see if she gets it then. The original conditions are already violated and they're running out of time.
Go to Keltham, enhanced, smarter than him, and he'll make himself smarter too, to match you, and - then what? Well, you'll be the only woman in the world who can even comprehend him, but that's not a seduction plan all by itself. It seems very plausible he is preparing for some kind of terrible war on Cheliax - could she stop him, by selling him the Wishes, by giving herself again to him - it does seem likely that with enhanced enough stats she could figure him out, but she's not grasping it right this second -
Deep Slumber, actually. They need to discuss this, and Carissa shouldn't try to puzzle this in her current state.
"I'm not particularly offering to defer this decision to you, but you're the Carissa Sevar expert."
"Yes. Obvious disturbing thought, the Carissa Sevar who devised this plan was greater than this Sevar because she'd seen through suppressed thoughts, inner conflicts, inner lies."
"Or the other Sevar was less stressed, not in my presence, less cumulatively tired, less frightened beforehand - she did seem to pick up stride once Restored and Splendored."
"What does her traitorous self hope to gain, compared to just killing herself to wake in Osirion?"
"Expiation of her sins to her god, Keltham, by undoing as much as she can of the harms she's dealt him while damning herself as thoroughly as she may without Abaddon, which she never would."