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happy days increasing the universe-conquering capabilities of Lawful Evil
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So I heard you betrayed Pilar yesterday.

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That didn't happen in alter-Cheliax.

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Uh huh.

Isn't the idea that we have the real conversation between us, so we can figure out how people actually think about this, and then adapt that to alter-Cheliax?

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Fine, so you mentioned that recent time where - what would even be analogous to that, in alter-Cheliax, they're not offering students incentives to turn traitor on each other.

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They sure aren't.

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Focus, Ione.

Well, on my side, I'd bring up the point that you are beyond doubt the least Lawful person in this classroom.

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Great, let's both Defect, then.

This isn't a contest of who can make the other person look less trustworthy.  We're supposed to be figuring out a way to, how did Keltham put it, Not That.

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Then why did YOU bring that up.

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Because I was wondering if you had anything to say in your defense about why you betraying Pilar, then, doesn't mean you would Defect now.

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And the part where you're now the adherent of a Neutral god - is something you'd have to defend to me?

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This from the Chosen of Milani.

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I told you that was a fucking joke.

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Bet that's not how tropes work.

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If I'm the Chosen of ANYONE it's some sort of weird god who does for this universe what I do for alter-Cheliax.  And if there's a god like that, I'm pretty sure it's a Lawful one.

We're not getting anywhere here, Ione, we're sniping at each other in a way that Asmodeans do, and we need to be having the alter-Cheliax version of this conversation instead.  Like one where we talk about how trustworthy we are, instead of how untrustworthy the other person is.

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My alter-Cheliax self has never in her life hurt anyone who didn't hurt her first.

How about you?

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I don't think - that can be true - even in alter-Cheliax -

Run that past Sevar before you say it to Keltham, Ione, she'll tell you that it's not like that in other countries.  She'll say it's not like that in Taldor.  She'll - probably be right.  Maybe in Keltham's Civilization, the real one, out of dath ilan.

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I didn't say alter-Ione never hurt anyone.  I said that I don't see why alter-Ione would ever hurt anyone who didn't hurt her first, if nobody was FORCING her to cast Acid Splash on CHILDREN to make sure she ended up DAMNED TO HELL -

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Because somewhere over her entire life, alter-Ione would, at some point, have hurt someone innocent, and remembered it, even if she was sad about it.  So she wouldn't say that to Keltham because it would be a lie -

Ione, stop this, this is NOT THE ALTER-VERSION of our conversation, that's an order.

Alter-Asmodia says that she sure wants us to both end up Cooperating, but no matter what kind of conversation we have about that, she doesn't see why we wouldn't just both Defect.

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Alter-Ione says that she doesn't especially want to be the sort of person where she Defects even though the other person Cooperated, so mostly, you just need to convince her that you Cooperate, and you're pretty done from there.  She doesn't see how you'll convince her of that, though.

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Alter-Asmodia says that Keltham's instructions were to make as much copper as we can, for ourselves, not to end up a particular sort of person.

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Alter-Ione says fuck the instructions, she's a Nethysian.

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Alter-Asmodia says that's not how to learn the knowledge Keltham is trying to teach you, Nethysian.

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Alter-Ione says, she thinks there isn't a way out of this in real life, if it's with Neutral Evil players, and that dath ilani little kids end up Cooperating because they don't really follow instructions either, what with them also being the sort of kids who try to explode their schools.

Alter-Ione thinks the people who actually follow instructions in this game end up Defecting and the ones who don't really follow instructions Cooperate.  If it's not about who we really are, but the Neutral Evil versions of us.

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Alter-Asmodia says that this is absolutely not the moral of a game they'd play with dath ilani kids, if this one doesn't contain the pieces for a solution, they'd give the kids a more complicated solvable problem right from the very start.  They don't want to teach the kids that Defection is the only way out.

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They play it to teach the kids that Defection is what happens when everyone is Evil and has no trace of Good in them.  This is a truth and a great and important and valuable one, which ought, indeed, to be taught to children.

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