"You can question us, if you would like," Ignasi says peaceably. "Repentance isn't - the concept that sometimes people think better of their worst acts, it's the concept that anyone can at any time choose the path of Good over whatever path they were walking before, no matter how monstrous it was. There is a spell, and it only works if they sincerely regret the harm they did, and sincerely desire to change. No one, in all the worlds, whatever their crimes, is ever more than a single choice from Good - that's what repentance means."

"We do appreciate your - openness, and willingness to talk to us," Tran says, with a bit of reluctance and ducking his head. "It - would make your claims about Leareth easier for us to take seriously, I think, if you were willing to repeat them under a first-stage Truth Spell? That's the non-coercive kind; all it does is verify honest intent." 

"Go right ahead."

Tran casts a Truth Spell and waits. 

Vanyel stares into the distance and tries not to fidget. 

Ignasi repeats everything he just said as best he can, which isn't quite perfectly. "I've seen Atonement spells fail to go through, if the person would act the same way in the same situation, or if they don't really want to change. But his went through, and Iomedae chose him as soon as it did, and he spent the rest of the day with us learning the rules so he could change his organizational proceedings to follow them."

"...It's interesting that he said he would act differently in the same situation? Because I - do think that he thought through very carefully what he was willing to do, and it's not that he liked killing people, he just thought it was necessary. Which, well, I've fought in a war, I..." He shrugs. Trails off. "But - I guess maybe he thought that even with the theoretical possibility of another world with other gods, and - other allies - he wouldn't endorse doing the things he's done, even if he were put back in the situation of - not actually having access to those allies. And maybe just wanting to change in the future hard enough would've counted. Which - I can believe he'd say and mean, he...takes new information seriously." 

Vanyel shakes his head. "Honestly, the bit that surprises me is, well, how quickly he was - apparently willing to just trust Iomedae to, er, be what She claims to be? My experience is that he's very paranoid about that sort of thing and would want to check." 

Tran is listening, wearing the now-familiar LOOK that means he is doubting every word coming out of Vanyel's mouth on the topic of Leareth as a person. 

"Well, She spoke to him. And - Her church would be different if She were different, I think."

In Vanyel's experience, talking to gods isn't actually that helpful for understanding Them or Their goals. Maybe a god who used to be human is easier to read? Or maybe Leareth just trusts his own judgement on the matter more, since he's apparently designed a schema to build an entire god himself. 

It doesn't feel like him saying anything will help, right now, so he keeps his mouth shut. 

"Thank you for being willing to do that." Tran tries to smile at the paladins. "So - what exactly are you planning in Velgarth, now?" 

"We'd like to have our church here. It'll make it easier for Iomedae to find Her people here, if there are any people who'd like to join Her, and it'll allow us to oppose the lawless expansion of Cheliax and Hell."

Tran chuckles, without humour. "The Chelish envoys keep hinting and complaining about how we're the ones who don't get your world's 'Law' thing." 

"I mean. Honestly they might have a point. I believe them, that they wouldn't do what Karse did to our envoys, even if we were at war." 

"Cheliax obeys the letter of treaties and agreements that they make, and work relentlessly to phrase them in their favor and in a manner that permits them loopholes. They enforce their laws harshly and teach everyone to report disobedience in others. But their actions here in Velgarth would not be widely regarded as legitimate, if they happened in Golarion, and I think the presence of other Lawful churches here will keep them in check somewhat." His manner has changed considerably, discussing Cheliax. 

Vanyel is suddenly standing up straighter. "That's really good to know. And - I think maybe puts more urgency on us sending people to Golarion, and particularly to places that aren't Cheliax. Can you explain in more depth what the other Lawful churches in Golarion would consider to be lawless or not legitimate about their actions here?" 

"The nations of Avistan keep each other in check, so no one is tempted to gobble up weaker neighbors. To declare war, you need a good cause. I am sure they successfully manufactured one, but two can play at that game; I find some fault in the excuse they manufactured, or I will, once they present it properly, which I notice they haven't yet. I think you should send people to places that aren't Cheliax; it is easy for them to lie to you on their own territory."

"Do you expect they would have been lying to us? We - hadn't been sure how much to expect that they were." He makes a face. "Leareth never outright lied to me. Didn't even do very much misleading-truths. Even when we were enemies and he was Evil." 

"I think probably virtually everything they said passes muster under local truth magic and was fundamentally dishonest. They make an art of it."

"Rude of them." 

"I'm sure they think we're the ones who're rude. Judging them for thinking torture is fine, and all that." 

They're still dancing around the point, here. 

"Leareth wants to help your people fight Cheliax, then?" 

"Leareth has joined the service of the Inheritor, and She intends to destroy Hell and in the more immediate future break its hold on Cheliax, yes."

"- You can do that? Destroy an entire afterlife?" 

Vanyel swallows hard. (He remembers Carissa's distress, and her anger - pointed at him - all too clearly.) 

"Would you, er. Be able to - rescue the people in it - first?"