"I wonder why she decided to convert. She couldn't reasonably have anticipated that her friend would need a miracle and that she'd get one."

A chuckle. "No, certainly not! I did talk to her about it during our first session, and got her permission to discuss things she said there with my student, if you are curious to try to understand better?" 

"Yeah, I'm curious."

"- Hmm. How much do you feel you understand the human drive toward religion and worship more broadly? People vary on how much they seek this, and - I would guess you are on the lower end, given that you are not religious."

He shakes his head. "Which makes me suspect I did a bad job of explaining my own feelings on the matter to you, the other day. I am sorry - I suppose I am less practiced when it comes to talking about myself in this context, since that is usually off topic." 

"It was a very unsatisfying conversation," she admits.

"Mmm." Lionwind doesn't seem to feel embarrassed or self-conscious about this, just a bit apologetic. "Well, for many people I think it is - not entirely dissimilar to the drive to know one's family history and feel a part of that, or even to feel patriotism for one's country. There is a human desire to feel a part of something bigger than oneself - something that has more meaning, a greater story, than just one's mundane day-to-day life. Does that make sense to you?" 

"...well, maybe, if you stipulate it's a good country or whatever, but you specifically don't have that information."

"I mean, I think many people who are patriotic do not have much way of knowing how their country's governance compares to others? It is - not really about that, I think, it is about it being theirs." 

"You don't have to know if your country is unusually good to tell if it's any good... I guess comparison could help you know what things countries normally have in-scope."

"I mean, we have some information on the gods. Shamans get advice from Their avatars, or helpful Foresight visions; occasionally there are miracles..." 

"Some people just have Foresight, or Healing, or good advice, and aren't weird about it!"

Lionwind starts to answer, grimaces, takes a breath, lets it out. "...Well, and then I suppose some of us are weird, from your perspective. Anyway, do you want to hear what our patient said about it?" 

"...sure." He keeps pausing and acting kind of strange about it.

She's allowed to look at his gears. She looks.

He's definitely kind of defensive and frustrated, and - maybe a little offended, moreso than he is almost ever in their one-on-one conversations; he's doing a lot of motions with his gears to try to defuse that and approach the conversation calmly and helpfully. She's seen him do that before with patients who were poking sore points for him, sometimes, but never just with her. 

"Well, I think part of it is the usual teenage desire to - find oneself a place in the world, to establish independence from one's parents. And I think that she feels a great deal of - need-for-meaning, something in that sphere, and the temple to Vkandis that she joined has many more ceremonial trappings of religion. Festivals, special dawn prayers, candles and incense, songs - all things that she gets a feeling of belonging and meaning from, I think." 

"Meaning... what? Things that are meaningful have to mean stuff."

Lionwind frowns again, looks thoughtful. "I suppose part of what it cashes out to is - solidarity with the others in the temple order, and feeling that, because she is one of them, a greater Power loves and cares about her and her life. But - hmm. I think that it is within the normal range of how human minds and emotions work, to not need 'meaning' to mean something concrete and measurable? Clearly you are not set up like this - I imagine your friend Ma'ar is not either - but many people are." 

"Yeah me and Ma'ar talked about this actually - I didn't mention the patient - and he's like me about it pretty much. He was wondering if it would be useful to get a god to look after the clans in the Plains in Predain but it's not actually clear that it would be useful. Is it like... you could say some nonsense syllables not to mean anything in particular, and then keep saying those same ones, and it's not that they ever start meaning anything but you can still be saying the same ones or different ones and all these people have decided to say the same ones and being in the Same Nonsense Club - I don't know how to not be rude about this -"

"- No, no, I do appreciate your curiosity! It goes along with the rest of you, that you will be curious about even those areas where people do not have clear explanations in words to offer you. ...Honestly I think that many, many cultural and ethnic traditions are not entirely dissimilar from one group of people choosing some nonsense syllables to chant together, and different people choosing different ones, and - both getting a sense of shared heritage and togetherness from it. I...do think it is an important thing to understand, that for many people this would feel real and meaningful and emotionally important to them?" 

"Well, sure, and some people like getting up at five in the morning to go fishing, just because I don't like something doesn't mean people can't like it and find it a big deal if they're obstructed in doing it."

"- Yes, good, that is part of what I am trying to convey - that even if a person's emotional needs are not ones you resonate with, it is still their mind and up to them what to do with it. ...But, anyway, I do think that worshipping the gods is less, hmm - epiphenomenal, than choosing one set of nonsense words over another. For myself, I - suppose that on an emotional level it is more than half just about my feeling of belonging with my people, but if you were to talk to a shaman, I think they would have more to say about what the Goddess does for our people. I cannot say I have ever sat down to interrogate them in detail about such things." 

"I guess I could try talking to one of those but probably they would not tolerate this line of questioning as well."

"Actually, I suspect they are much more used to difficult questions on this topic than I am! It is their job to answer all the questions from young people who have strong opinions, and also from anybody who is considering converting, or deconverting. Whereas...I will confess I am unused to this." 

"Oh. Well, is there one around?"

"Yes, certainly! Perhaps I will send you over to Summerhawk first. She has decided to train as an apprentice to the shaman, and is probably less busy than him - and also I know her well and she is open-minded." 

"Sounds good. I might bring Ma'ar if he wants to come."