" - I don't know much about how common it is in other places. More than one in a hundred, less than one in ten? Among people who aren't farmers, I don't have the slightest idea how you'd be a farmer who didn't let your wife leave the house."

"What did other people think of it? I guess if the husband was rich and powerful, the neighbours might not feel like they could object even if they wanted to - I think that happens sometimes where I'm from, in the capital even." 

"He was rich. I think mostly it wouldn't have occurred to people to talk to him. Same as it doesn't when people see someone - slap their kid, or kick their dog, or beat their slave - for it to occur to you to talk to someone you have to notice that something bad is happening, right, and you sleep a lot better if you don't bother with that nonsense."

"Hagan is wanted in Qadira for stealing a boat and conveying forty-three runaway slaves to Andoran and leaving eight people gravely injured in the process."

"We weren't talking about me."

"And yet I think this is important context."

Vanyel is sort of gobsmacked and still trying to find his balance again.

"Er, is it - normal, here, for people not to think it matters if bad things happen to women and children... Um, also context, it's illegal to have slaves in my kingdom. Not in some of the nearby kingdoms. Sometimes they make it to Valdemar as refugees." 

"I think Hagan is - characterizing peoples' behavior as reflecting their values more than I would say their behavior actually reflects their values, and definitely more than they would say it did, if you asked them."

"If someone says they want something, but they won't pay a copper for it, what does Abadar have to say about that."

Sigh.

"That they want it less than things they would pay a copper for."

"Andoran bans slavery. They're the only ones but maybe if it's not a mess more countries will, eventually. I would not expect Osirion to be one of them but there are theology papers arguing that we ought to permit it only as a punishment for crimes. Most of Avistan permits women to divorce and own property and go to school, and also less than one in four people in Avistan makes Axis and they kill something like a fifth of their babies."

"More places than just Andoran ban human slavery," he adds quietly.

Vanyel surprises an instinctive 'gah'. "Oh. You have nonhuman intelligent races too - I guess I knew that, I met Amilek–" Vanyel holds up a hand. "Sorry. Not the main point. Can you please give me a minute." There are so many threads here and he feels sort of lost in it, and like his head is going to start unraveling. 

"...Sorry, I'm trying not to be - offensive to local norms, just, my kingdom isn't like this at all. Er, I mean, it's like that a little among the nobility... But among the Heralds, at least, it's about an even split of men and women, Gifts show up with an even split so..." He throws up his hands. "I don't even know what my point is. I'm sorry. Where's Avistan?" 

"The continent north of here. Cheliax, Andoran and Galt which are former colonies of Cheliax, Taldor which used to rule the whole area but that was a very long time ago, and some smaller countries north of that. When people talk about Avistan and women's rights they are mostly talking about norms descended from Taldor, Cheliax, and places that used to be ruled by one or both of them; the parts of the continent that doesn't describe mostly have pretty different stuff going on I think."

"And Cheliax is the place that's literally ruled by Hell. It seems unsurprising they'd have worse, er, afterlife statistics - are there literally numbers collected on this... What's Taldor like?" 

"Very frustrating to do anything in because they have lots of powerful local nobles all of whom are constantly making moves on one another. The Grand Prince - the ruler - is guarded by foreign mercenaries because he can't trust his own people. Culturally frustrating too, they have the air of people who used to be an empire and hate that they aren't anymore, everyone's got a hereditary title and everyone cares too much about it and they're condescending as all get-out about it. Also I hate Cheliax as much as the next person but everyone in Taldor says things like 'burn Cheliax clean' and 'a nation of abominations' and - if an invasion ever happens I'd want the civilians to have someone else to surrender to."

"Gah. Yes, I'd be pretty concerned about being a civilian on the losing end of an invasion with that kind of, er, historical dynamic." 

A rock and earth creature pops up out of the ground, turns into Mahdi. "So I found - uh -"

"We're discussing women's rights!"

Mahdi raises an eyebrow.

"First piece of advice I got on my first job, you know, careful about talking religion and never discuss women's rights."

"Well, now we've dug our grave and have to lie in it."

"It sounds like Valdemar is more like Avistan which makes a lot of sense if you don't have the same afterlives or at least don't know yourself to."

"You know, I'm actually still confused how the afterlife situation is improved by treating women like they aren't people–"

Vanyel cuts himself off, that was a lot snarkier than he'd intended, but it seems even more awkward to try to roll it back now so he just lets it hang there.