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war for velgarth
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He knew pretty much what to expect and it is pretty much what he expected, which isn't to say it doesn't hurt, watching himself writhe helplessly under so much mind-affecting magic that he couldn't even think clearly about what he wanted, what he could reasonably hope for, whether these were the last moments of his life. At some point he noticed that he couldn't remember what questions had been asked so far, couldn't remember how long this had been happening, and that was terrifying - he remembered hoping that this was Sauron playing a game with him, that he'd be punished spectacularly in a little bit for whatever mistakes he made here but that he wouldn't have lost everything forever -

His face is very still and calm, which accomplishes less than he'd like thanks to the stupid emotion-bond.

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Telumë's own emotions, inevitably tied into the memory, are pretty messy, and also layered over with his later feelings, since he's gone through it in his head so many times. He was so tired at the time, already, and scared, and - wishing none of this was happening - he remembers how hard it was to hide his feelings from Maitimo, to tuck them away from himself even so that he could bring himself to do this at all. Even knowing it was the right thing to do and that he had basically no choice.

He wants to hug Maitimo but he holds off. Are you ready for the next one? It was - me making very dubious choices. 

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Already? Affectionately. Yes, I'm ready.

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Telumë takes a deep breath and dives into the second memory, the one that definitely shouldn't have happened, where he came back, not to ask more questions (yet), but just to...see Maitimo at all...to try to apologize, somehow...

And then things happened from there. He honestly can't really remember what he was thinking, at the time. Mostly just that he was hurting, so much, and everything felt so impossible and unfair. 

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He reaches out and hugs him, in the middle. 

 

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Telumë starts crying. I am sorry - I should not have...

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I would've, if it'd been the other way around, I do not exactly have a leg to stand on here...

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...Would you have? I am not - I did it because I was - mostly a scared child, at the time, you are less inclined than I was then to do things which are stupid. 

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Hmm. Telumë finishes going through that memory. 

...the next one is the especially painful memory where they were trying to question Maitimo after he had woken up with his hair loose and knew perfectly well what must have happened. 

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He would really like to hug Telumë but it seems like maybe it will not help, or will help mostly along dimensions they can fix later while hurting along dimensions they mostly can't. He sits apart from Telumë. Watches. He can read himself easily enough; he's off-balance, he wasn't expecting Telumë to want that, he can't piece together how they stand, it hurts to be so confused and helpless but it's also useful, he can lean into it, he can watch himself try -

 

If Maitimo were interrogating himself he would do more to limit his attentional capacity, not permit him any background strands of thought. This would be terrifying to be subject to but it'd get you a much less frightening adversary. He does not share this thought.

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After that memory, there are half a dozen additional, mostly shorter, questioning sessions, coming back to clarify something or other, learning more of what Maitimo knew about Sauron's forces and deployments and specific plans. Some of them were spaced days apart, so there'll be blocks that Maitimo doesn't remember and that Telumë can't give him back, due to having been elsewhere desperately trying to focus on making plans. 

And then the conversation that ended in the accidental marriage, but Maitimo remembers that. 

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I'm up for more but, uh, are you -

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I can get through all of the remaining memories from your first stay. There aren't that many left and it'll be easier to put this down and find his balance afterward if he's done all of them. 

The next one is the conversation negotiating for Maitimo's return to Arda. Telumë's emotions are pretty strong in the memory, enough to sometimes block out the actual content for a moment; he was miserable and guilty and ashamed of himself, he didn't want to hurt Maitimo any more - he also felt so, so outclassed trying to negotiate anything with a Maitimo who wasn't on his side...

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Maitimo was so much happier, then, with something he could use, even if he was aware he was planning to use it to destroy almost everything he cared about. 

Happier but not thinking quite clearly - it seemed pretty likely that forcing Telumë to hide this was worth more in terms of blowing up the war effort than going home was. He just desperately didn't want to, so he'd desperately thrown himself at finding another way.

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Telumë remembers noticing that. Being a little confused. 

The last memory, from this period at least, is the one from after he went off and thought, and came back for the final agreement they ended up coming to. Telumë is in tears again, hugging his knees to his chest, by the time he's done sharing it. 

...he's tempted to keep going but probably this is enough for today, he'll have a challenging time calming down from this as it is. 

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Well, then he's going to hug him. 

"Thank you. I think that did help put some pieces together. Especially - hmm, I had a lot of helplessness about my ability to model you, which is discomfiting, and now I think I see where I got it and I feel better able to predict you and it's good for me."

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"I think there is something about myself - then, less so now - I did not really understand until later," Telumë said quietly. "Most people do sometimes think less clearly, and make questionable decisions, due to sexual attraction to someone. At least humans, I am less sure for Quendi. Many people learn strategies for coping with this; I think Vanyel has, for example, and so he would know when not to trust himself. And that is something I did not have any habits around? Because for a very long time I had - dealt with it by just not wanting anybody that way. Since then I have tried to learn some more of the habits that normal people would have for this." 

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"I'm not the slightest bit worried you'll do it again, for what that's worth. And I don't - think I learned very much new about you, except that when you are sufficiently lonely and desperate and scared and overwhelmed you'll fall back on wanting people to be happy rather than sad, and not think past that.

 

I think the mistake it actually looks to me like you made was that you prepared yourself for me to try to manipulate you, and I don't do that when I don't have enough resources. I spend almost all of my time and mental energy building social capital. The end goal is I guess that I be able to spend it but one is actually more effective at building it when one has no plans to spend it, so I mostly don't. I was obsessively focused, the whole time, on having enough of myself to offer you that you would want me to keep existing. And that wasn't - that wasn't the direction from which you'd put up defenses."

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That seems right. The world had turned into something that made so little sense to him, and he was struggling to think ahead more than five minutes - which isn't like him, or more accurately isn't like Leareth, but probably the months spent traveling through the wilderness alone trying not to die, which was more than half of his current lifetime at that point, hadn't helped.

And, no, he hadn't been protecting against the right things. He genuinely hadn't realized how much Maitimo might be afraid Telumë wouldn't think it was worth keeping him alive, even if in hindsight it makes sense. It might have helped if he'd been able to read Maitimo's thoughts himself, but maybe not, Maitimo is surprisingly good at being strategic even with his thoughts and feelings, when he thinks he has to. 

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Maybe this is a good point to share the thought that he thinks to keep a Maitimo in captivity you should probably dramatically limit his attentional capacity - "though it would have made me very sad, so I'm glad you didn't. 

Anyway I don't think - I'm not going to say the correct amount to beat yourself up about this was zero but I think it was hit a long time ago. You were a scared kid. You had - one mode of interaction with me that felt like we were on the same side. I desperately wanted you to go for it. It mostly only messed me up because of the memory loss, and I think I'm - very close to being in a place, now, where I am not shaped by the fact it did hurt me in any important ways at all. Unlike you, you're still all - contorted around it - gods, I'm sorry, I think I'd given up too thoroughly on anything that might look manipulative to notice that I should be stepping you back for your own sake -"

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"I think–" He stops. "Vanyel would think that there is no possible world in which it ought to have been on you, my mind-controlled prisoner, to try to hurt me less. I - well, in your position I think I would have endorsed still caring about that? I am not sure." He had thought he was much less contorted around it, now, he's spent so long trying to process it and figure out how to relate to that particular episode of his past, but it's different, harder, now that Maitimo is back in his life... 

"I am glad it helped you to have the memories back," he says, shakily. "I thought it would. I - think I would feel more comfortable, if I share the rest with you before we spend the night together again. Just so - so that I know you know all the ways that I might have hurt you and not even noticed it." 

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Handwave. "'Ought to have been' is for winning arguments and I'm not trying to win an argument. I was evil, and I had very little context, and I was under a lot of mindcontrol, and I conceived of myself as fighting for my life, and I specifically had a bad model of you in particular because our interactions were the thing I was missing the most context on, and that is certainly enough to explain why I was not paying very much attention to whether I had reason to make you stop, but if I had been paying attention I think I would've noticed it was good for my goals to make you stop, at least sometimes.

Do you want me to go now or do you want to do the rest of the memories now -"

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He's tempted to just push ahead but also not sure that's the best idea; it'll work better to share the memories if he's not overlaying them with his current disarrayed emotions. He feels almost dizzy with it.

"I would like to finish doing this," he says, "but - can you just hold me for ten or fifteen minutes? If that is long enough to get settled, then I can do the rest today; if I need longer than that, probably it would mean I ought to wait for another time." 

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