:Dara thought maybe her Companion ought to be able to? But he's being weird about it. Yfandes - had an idea of why: 

What was the idea? he asks Yfandes.

:It's a bit difficult to explain: Yfandes starts, hesitantly, :but - Companions aren't human, right? Actually, I'm based on the pattern of a human - a specific human, I used to be a Herald in a past life, I remember bits and pieces of it even - but there are...modifications. To make the Herald bond work, and some others. The goal of the system overall was to hold Valdemar together as a political entity for an indefinite period of time, in a way that was - predictable, I think, to the gods involved. Our guess is that even if the Valdemaran god was the main driver, there was some negotiation with the others, for an intervention of that size. Anyway, the way that seems to be implemented is that, while we're very powerful, there are a lot of checks and balances on that power, and one of them is, hmm, is that we're sort of blocked from thinking about changing the setup? And especially from thinking about working against the gods directly. I ran headfirst into that almost a decade ago, before any of the Arda events. When Leareth initially shared his plan with Vanyel about making a god, and Vanyel was sympathetic to it, and - my mind was suddenly at cross-purposes. Eventually the strain was enough that I just broke a piece in my mind, and then I could think about it: 

- huh. So even if the Valdemaran god is at this point fine with Leareth's plan, the Companions can't properly consider it? Unless you can convince them to do the same thing?

:That's my current theory. Probably I ought to talk to Treven's Eren and see if I can get him on board, it's - not causing the difficulties it did for Van and I but it'll help if the King of Valdemar can at least talk freely to his own Companion about this. The issue with Rolan is that he's set up a bit differently, he wasn't ever human - he's sort of a step closer to being a miniature god in his own right–:

She cuts off. 

:...Probably it's a terrible idea to use modified-Rolan as the initial container to make a baby god but it's where my mind went just then: she confesses. 

:Using a Heartstone is another option: Vanyel points out. :Leareth and I talked about it in the hypothetical, even. It was purely a hypothetical before because there was no hope of getting the Star-Eyed to cooperate, but - that could well be different now. If we get a way of telling Her what Sauron is actually planning: 

Do we have a way to talk to her? Can the Tayledras do it?

:They do. Or I could, actually, I've spoken to Her before via a Heartstone. I'd have to go back to Velgarth for that, of course: 

If we have a Heartstone - and the math checks out - I don't think we should ask Mandos's permission, he won't give it, but I don't think he'll keep people dead over it and if he does there's probably another way to reembody Quendi -

:And if we succeed we'll have a god fully on our side: 

It seems worth it to me.

:This is possibly the most terrifying decision I've considered making in my life, but...I agree: Vanyel glances at Treven. 

The (theoretically) King of Valdemar folds his arms. :If Leareth's people and your mathematicians are on board, and we have a path to succeed at it, then I'd sign off on that: 

Then we should ask where the mathematicians can meet so they can all work directly with each other. And - if we reach the Star-Eyed and she doesn't approve the plan is she likely to stop it -

:Maybe? I'm not sure how much influence She would have on the north directly - we might want to arrange for none of the Tayledras to know until we had two plans ready to go, one involving Heartstones and one without, and ask Her then, and if She refused, cut contact with the Tayledras and go for the non-Heartstone option immediately: 

That makes sense. - I think there are not enough Quendi. Definitely not if we have to go for a plan without the Heartstone.

:I hate to be the one to bring this up, but - orcs?: 

There are more of them. It feels - uglier? I don't think we'll be able to get permission from the Quendi affected but I think - it's a group of people who'd be dying right now in the war with Melkor if not what Velgarth did for us. And I can imagine how everyone will - put a story about it together after Mandos and it's a story you can feel pretty good about. The orcs hate us, they don't trust us, they hate Mandos and don't trust him to bring them back - that is historically justified, though with Melkor dead you'd think it'd be different - 

:That makes sense. Maybe Leareth can get some humans too: 

:A mage calling a Final Strike can get a lot more power output than killing a human for blood-power: Vanyel adds. :We should just talk to Telumë directly about it. See what his resources are. Er, I imagine it's best to send some Quendi to the north, but maybe Leareth can relocate his team here instead, we can ask about that too: 

Right, but you don't come back. I feel conflicted about seeding centuries of enmity with orcs over that time we massacred a million of them to win a war on a different planet but at least they'll be around to have enmity about it!

:...Mandos will bring them back, now, right? Since the oaths to Melkor are broken?: 

Stef freezes. Will the oaths come back if Melkor does? Because we have to assume there's a chance we won't do this in time. 

- I don't know. A god has never been destroyed and then - reconstituted before. 

Mandos should bring them back now. He hasn't done it yet but he's stranded in another world and all.

Vanyel nods. :I can't see that we have a choice but to hope he does. Anyway, I should write down a whole list of things to talk about with Telumë and we'll make a decision of whether to go from here:

He's silent for a moment, thinking. :Unrelated thing: he sends finally. :Telumë acknowledges this is a bad idea and probably we should not do it, but he wanted me to pass it on anyway; Maitimo finds it deeply distressing being alone, he was asking if he could have visitors and gave a list of names, Quendi who worked for him. He thinks none of them know important things or are working on important things. He can't harm them except for talking and we can compulsion again that, although, er, I can't imagine that being very comfortable for the visitors either. Telumë expects you to do the sensible thing and veto this idea: