"Sometimes. I guess."

"Fazil says women need to be loved, to get through hard things, and men need to love someone."

She's quiet for a bit. She looks at Verita.

"I think probably insofar as anyone needs either, men and women both need each of those things. Although - and this isn't me trying to be xenophobic, sorry, it's just - a thought - babies die if no one holds them. Even if they have enough food and warmth and sleep, if you don't hold them, they die. And - when you're a grownup, caring for people is - important, for keeping yourself grounded, and stuff, for knowing that the work you're doing matters to someone you care about and that your life in turn has value. So - it makes some sense that if you had a society where women were - sort of like children, married younger and couldn't feed themselves, ended up really dependent on other people, it makes sense that maybe people who are dependent would particularly need to know that they were loved and cared for. And it makes sense that if men had most of the - responsibilities and decision making power, maybe you'd mostly notice the ways that caring for people helped them grow."

"Maybe. 

I do....actually think men and women are different? I'm not - obviously some of it is how you raise them, and obviously some people decide that so they can hurt people more conveniently, but - I don't think it's exactly the same even if you treat them the same."

"Which things do you think are different?"

"In the countries where you treat them all the same men care for their kids less and sleep around more and adventure more and drink more."

"I admit that women are more likely to end up raising children as a result of the thing where they carry them for nine months and then feed them for another year or two. I imagine they adventure more because they're stronger. I am not certain that they drink more."

"'m not, like, smart, I'm not going to be able to defend this in an argument, but if it was actually important I guess right for some reason I wouldn't guess it's all just circumstances or who's stronger."

"I guess I would not say that carrying babies is really just circumstance. I think it does affect things. Just - Osirians seem to think that men and women are as different as humans and elves, or something, and they're not."

"Probably not. It's useful to think people are really different from you if you don't wanna think how you'd feel in their shoes."

"I guess that makes sense. Depressing, but - not really surprising."

Nod.

"I don't really mean to keep being annoying about it, though. It's - I dunno. Habit, arguing with you about stuff."

"I like that you argue with me about stuff."

"Oh. I guess that's - convenient. Since I apparently can't help myself."

"Or - right now it's kind of stressful since I'm scared that if I say something wrong you'll decide against me and it is not actually much consolation to remind myself that if we're not suited then we shouldn't be together, but in general it's - one of the things I first liked about you. That it seemed like you were trying to - have opinions that had to do with reality instead of having to do with making sense to the people around you."

"Oh.

"I'm glad. I think."

"Okay. Good."

"Sorry for stressing you out. I guess."

"My own fault. Wouldn't want you to - do anything differently."

"Yeah.

"...I keep wanting to do the - honest and forthright thing but I think I'm, like, really bad at it."

"Kind of worried I am too. Or that it only works when everyone's got this accurate starting range of possibilities about what the other person might want. Dunno what there is to replace it with, though. Gods. I can't even think about it because I just get hung up on thinking what's likeliest to work -"

"Yeah.

"You could - I dunno, say what you think an ideal future would look like if you could have anything and then say what you're figuring you'll have to settle for?"

"...you want me. That's - that's it, I can't even imagine wanting anything else - you want me and we have some kids I guess but if we don't we can hang out with everyone else's and we travel I guess but if you wanted to stop that'd be okay - I think I'm doing this wrong but nothing else matters to me -"

"Oh.

"Wow."