"Some people are very horrible. They might think you would stop them from being horrible if they did not hurt you first."

"Why do they want to be horrible?"

"It gets them money, or power, or fame, or sex, or impresses other people or is easier than being good or they just think it's fun."

"Those sound like things they can get without having to hurt anybody. Unless they are picky about kinds of fun. I'm not sure about that."

"Well, usually it is easier to get power and money unethically than ethically. Because other people are trying very hard to do it, too, and if you're doing the same things as them and aren't particularly remarkable as a person then you won't do much better than them."

"Hmmmmm.

I don't know how to solve this problem but it seems logically impossible to solve it by being horrible."

"Logically impossible? Why's that?"

"The problem is people being horrible! If anyone is horrible it is not solved."

"It's a very very very big universe and we will not manage to make it one where no one is ever horrible."

"I'm going to not be horrible anyway."

"I know."

"You should also not be horrible."

"It is too late for that but I can avoid being more horrible."

"Good!"

"She said she can, not that she will."

"It's still good because to do it she has to be able to."

" - I guess that's true."

"I wasn't sure she'd know how!"

"She's so perfect," Anaander says happily to the room at large.

"I'm actually sort of confused about why you like her though I acknowledge our general appeal!"

"I have some idea of how much of a handicap she is working at and I am very very impressed. And the phrases she uses are delightful, and I don't know if we'll be able to convey useful concepts to the Presger but I think we can at least end up on the same page about which things they need? And she's happy about good things and sad about bad things without - playing a lot of games on top of that -"

"Games?"

"Usually people do lots of things with their emotions and expressions thereof to achieve their goals and it's very tiring and transparent and you don't do it."

"I don't know how! But I like achieving things so maybe I will if I learn how."

"Well it'll help you achieve things with other people but not with me because I don't like it."