"If both votes are all in agreement it can be both, but in case Ser Goés's vote for Count Fazil would matter I wanted to put him first."

"For both." He's trying something, anyway, and at least it sounds like they'll disagree productively.

"In favor of both." He's the one who asked for a paladin, and the other man seems sane enough.

"Alright, welcome to the committee, both of you. What old business did we have... the suggested basic form of marriage," which he has written and passes around especially to the new members, "considerations for what clauses in a marriage contract ought to be banned from new contracts and invalidated from leftover infernal ones, custody of children, the breaking of marriages for the safety of the children, possibility of permitting a husband to divorce freely as long as he pays to support the children... and questions about how meaningfully we can pass any of this without a civil court system to make clear how it will be enforced."

When a man and a woman marry, their oaths to each other shall be administered by a priest of a permitted church (empowered, or a lay priest of an organized church), and witnessed by two or more persons in good standing among their community. This being done, they shall then be held to these oaths: the man not to leave his wife and children, except in cases of adultery or other great provocation, and even then to provide for the children of the union until they have come of age; and the woman to be loyal to her husband, and to care for their children.

This shall be principally enforced by civil suit, the deserted husband or wife bringing a complaint against their spouse. The court may direct the straying spouse to return to their spouse and children, or require them to pay for their support, or declare the abandonment to have been permissible due to extraordinary circumstances (adultery, extreme cruel treatment, etc.).

"Unless I misread this it does not oblige a man to provide for his wife."

"Nor does it prohibit male adultery, or allow that any wife might be greatly provoked, even though it has come to my attention that the people of Cheliax include many diligent provocateurs."

"The vows we have been using in Pedraza, based on the ones I grew up with, are the husband's that he will honor his wife, protect and provide for her and for her children, and be good to her and greet her with love, and the wife's that she will be faithful to her husband, and take guidance from him, and obey him and use his money wisely and raise his children to honor him."

"Those seem like good vows, Count, except that they oblige the wife to obey him even if he commands her to evil or rank foolishness, which seems a much greater concern here than in other countries."

"For those who I haven't introduced her to, this is my wife Duchess Gisella, whose opinions I value very highly, but who is Andoren by birth and not herself a delegate."

"In Osirion it is often said that a man should obey his father, but if his father drunkenly tells him to burn his house down, he obeys his father by putting him to bed until he is sober, not by burning the house down.

 I acknowledge this is inadequate to the case where the father soberly says to burn the house down, which does not really happen in Osirion but which perhaps does, in places recently ruled by Hell.

I in any event agree that one should not obey when commanded in evil or destructive things, and that a person so commanding his wife would be remiss in his own vows to her."

"What's the point of having her promise to obey him in the first place?"

"It's possible we shouldn't encourage such promises in an environment where Law has historically been pitted so directly against Good, but in ideal conditions the point is that he needs to be able to trust her, and may need to be able to do that in times of crisis or intractable disagreement such that an hourlong discussion will not improve their consensus."

"I do not know if it is a bad idea here but it is how marriage works in every long-standing society and I suspect may be a necessary ingredient. Adventuring parties, too, always have it settled who gives orders in an emergency, or they don't last long."

Nod nod. "And some procedure if they've failed an important save, but - sometimes a call has to be made and you need to know in advance how it will be made."

"If it's just important for emergencies could you just put something about that in the oath? I think lots of women won't get married at all if they have to promise to obey their husband no matter what even if he's doing something Evil." 

"Women should not marry a man they do not trust far enough to agree to obey him, because marriage produces children, who will be utterly dependent on their parents, and if you do not think a man is trustworthy with that power then it is very important not to conceive a child by him."

Nod nod nod.

"....why does this argument not apply to men, if men are also obliged to support their children?"

"I would also emphatically advise a man not marry a woman who he did not trust."

"...I see what you're saying, about not marrying someone who might try to order you to do something Evil, but that kind of sounds to me like no one in Cheliax should ever get married. I can think of..." (pause) "...three men who I might trust that much. And one of them isn't even Chelish."

"Well, why don't you marry one of those?"

It had not even slightly occurred to her that that might be a thing she could do. "...Well, one of them's already married, and one of them only sleeps with men, and the last one's the one who's not Chelish. And also just because someone wouldn't try to order you to do something Evil doesn't mean he'd be a good husband apart from that. And I don't even know for sure they wouldn't order me to do anything Evil, it's just my best guess. And also most people wouldn't want to marry a Calistrian priestess anyway, and even if they did that doesn't mean they'd want to marry me specifically. And also I don't really have... any reason to get married."

"I agree you shouldn't marry someone you don't trust, but it doesn't seem like giving all decisionmaking power to one party improves the situation. I think most people are not trustworthy, or particularly likely to be acting well towards people in their power, so I don't think we should write laws that assume that anyone involved is behaving well at any point.

I do think this is a - suggested legal minimum, for something to count as a marriage, and for the state to enforce on all marriages, not a claim that people shouldn't make other promises to each other. We need a minimum because we're considering making siring bastards a crime, and need an official standard for what counts as doing that."

"I would also like there to be fewer bastards but I am not currently confident that we wouldn't just be herding people to the Abyss with such a law."

"I see the argument for not having obedience in a suggested legal minimum, in Cheliax in particular. I don't see the argument for not promising to support your wife. I can't think how it's even a marriage if you are not financially supporting your wife.

Siring bastards you could make a tort, if you had civil courts."