Against. The outcomes of votes here are getting predictable.

In favor.

Sure, they might be predictable, but they're paying him to vote how they do, not how he thinks they will! He's not gonna guess and maybe get it wrong.

In favor, have them in public and maybe self-preservation will get through the skulls of the next group of rioters before they light the torches.

"In favor. The proposal passes. Is there any other business before we adjourn for the day?"

"Yes. Urban order must handle both situations of internal disorder and simple crime, and external infiltration and complicated crime. Let us turn our attention to the latter, and to fiendish agents, be they hidden diabolists, demon worshippers, spreaders of disease, or any of the dozens of other threats, less common but no less serious. In a nation the size of Cheliax, we cannot leave threats like this to the watch or the local nobility, and must instead rely on specialists, who understand the ways of cultists and how best to confront them.

I propose we write a law that establishes three elements:

First, that there exist a list of powers forbidden to worship or aid, beginning with all evil deities, and minor fiendish powers, such as archdevils or demon lords.

Second, that there exist organizations chartered to investigate and punish such worship wherever they find it, with rights and responsibilities appropriate to the trust placed in them.

Third, that there be a royal office to coordinate between those organizations, and update the list of forbidden powers as the situation changes.

There are, of course, many details to establish for each of those three points, but it seems wise to ensure we are all in agreement on the aims of the law before closely contemplating its methods." 

"What is the advantage of having several organizations and a coordinating body instead of a single organization with any necessary subdivisions?"

On the face of it he's in favor, but given the rest of the committee's proposals he's worried about the office expanding the forbidden powers list.

"What is the reasoning behind having a changing list of forbidden powers, instead of just directly banning the worship of evil ones?"

"Besmara, my lord," Elias murmurs.

"And isn't there an Arodenite saint or two who hangs around in Axis doing evil for good worse than Aroden?"

First, to the Fiducia. "I was motivated by the simplicity of matching Cheliax's history. We could renew the charter of the Order of the Pyre, and separately charter an arm of the Glorious Reclamation if they desire, and separately set up an inquisitorial office, without requiring that they coordinate except through the minister of the interior or his deputy. In my experience at the Worldwound, paladins and Hellknights coordinate best at arm's length, and both prefer membership in a chartered knightly order to direct submission to the government."

Second, to the Lord Marshal. "While there is value in simplicity, the world is large and contains many surprises. I would give the Queen and country the ability to notice exceptions--evil powers that are not destructive enough to civilization to be hunted down, and can instead be peaceable neighbors in an Osirani way, or neutral powers that are destructive enough to need dedicated opposition. Besmara was first on my list as well, though I do not think her worship is common enough in Cheliax for the issue to be urgent. I struggle to imagine a good power who could deserve this treatment, but my knowledge of theology is far from complete. But I would not make the mistake of Taldor in opposing Sarenrae for political reasons, and we could require that the list not contain any powers Pharasma judges to be good.

Further, the firmament is not fixed, yet changes, and if this is truly the beginning of the Age of Glory, our government may be an active player in changing it. I wished for the handling of forbidden churches to be a flexible tool for Queen and country to reflect this. If a demon rises to the status of demon lord and their claws can pierce through to the material, I would rather that be noticed once and spread among the agencies, rather than require it to be confirmed multiple times.

If you have an alternative method for maintaining the list, I would be happy to hear suggestions."

He knows some perfectly good Besmara worshippers, actually. They are, admittedly, a small minority, and a few of them would probably support making Her worship illegal.

"I don't think this is the right committee or the right tool with which to address piracy. But that's a minor concern, and if we decide to additionally proscribe the worship of Besmara I will not oppose it.

With regard to Aroden's saints, there are a great number of religious practices of which I disprove, practices which I think should be discouraged, but which are not a danger to society in the same way that a cult to a demon lord or archdevil or Norgorber is. Laws written to address the former will be inadequate for the latter; laws appropriate for stamping out the cult of Nocticula will be excessive if applied equally to the cult of Calistria.

I would have no complaint about a royal office tasked with coordinating between cult-hunting groups, and telling them of any newly arisen demon lords, dukes of Hell, or other Evil powers. My concern is only with such an office empowered to forbid the worship of nonevil powers. Perhaps there are some nonevil, nongood powers whose worship is dangerous to permit to the same degree and in a similar manner to the worship of demon lords, but I believe those powers are few enough that it's likely better to explicitly proscribe them by statute, either now or in the future."

He'll nod. "Perhaps statute or decree? We do not know what form the rest of the government will take, and it is not obvious to me that there will be a legislature well-equipped to handle questions of this type." 

If the church is in favor, he can't very well be against. He does, of course, want to end the worship of the infernal powers. But conceiving of the worship of infernal powers as a problem of rooting out cults seems confused. The number of people who have received almost no instruction in the worship of non-infernal powers is still really quite significant. Without a strong element of education, which they have less of than ever before, they will probably end up punishing a huge number of people who were trying to follow the rules. Restart the project of rooting out heresy, and it's very easy to imagine the people withdrawing from explaining any of their confusions with a belief system they have almost no exposure to.

He can't say that. Some things are very much not safe for him to say. Possibly he can talk to Cansellarion in private later, even if it will be too late.

"I think we need to be very careful about editing the list of those forbidden. I'm inclined to say that it cannot include anyone Good, and that it takes the Queen's personal act, in addition to the assent of any appropriate legislature we create, to ban one who is Neutral or allow one who is Evil, or to reverse either decision. In that nothing which is not significant enough to be worth the Queen's scarce attention and time ought to be changing. Any means we provide for approving an Evil power must be resilient against a legislature under strong outside influence; particularly I don't want Vyre's Norgorberites bribing or blackmailing their way into permission, tools which they have been frustratingly skilled at wielding against the Chelish nobility for many centuries. The Lord Marshal's concern that relegating Gorum to the full legal status of demon cult may be unwise and best avoided seems fair as well, but I don't know what that status will mean."

"The details of the organizational charters and for what behavior they can be revoked also matter a great deal to whether it's good for the kingdom on net; inquisitions are, notoriously, typically Evil and significantly destructive even without current Chelish people staffing them. I care that they conduct themselves very Lawfully, especially if not Good; if the Queen reapproves the Hellknights for this I would concur, but not for most other other knightly orders not following Good gods. But I agree that it needs to be done in some form and His Grace's suggestions indicate to me that we can all come to an agreement."

Oh, good, the Archduchess is capable of sometimes being reasonable.

"It sounds like we're all agreed about the need for such a policy, and most of our disagreements are about the specific details of implementation. It might be best to adjourn for the day and discuss more specific language when we meet tomorrow."

He does want to get it to the floor tomorrow. But he wants more that it be wise and correct, and he's busy tonight, and the sooner the committee adjourns the more time he has to prepare for that. Hopefully a day's delay is not another Norgorberite murder. 

"I defer to the chair on how to spend the committee's time, but perhaps we should split tasks for the creation of that more specific language. As I understand it, the Queen has given the Hellknights interim permission to continue basic operations, but the question of their rights and responsibilities has been left to the Convention to decide, and so it is acting in deference to Her Majesty's will to give it our full consideration. I will ask the Hellknight orders to put forward proposals for our review, or to give testimony in committee as expert witnesses.

Lord Marshal, I understand the Glorious Reclamation to have be primarily focused on military matters instead of these investigative ones, but do you believe there are members of it who would join or be competent to found a Chelish knightly order focused on the investigation of proscribed worship? If we are to empower Hellknights and others in a detailed way, one of the important details will be who those others are. Perhaps you could ask for volunteers, and the committee could know roughly what shape the investigative forces will have while setting policy for them."

Inquisition is a job that simply must be done; the experience of Mendev is clear on that point, even if Cheliax is only engaged in a hot war with the Abyss in its Sarkorian territories. The more paladins they can get for it, the fewer concessions to Hellknight tactics they will have to make.

"Ideally we'd get input from the Order of the Torrent, which is a small Kintargan Hellknight order which is not only Lawful but actively Good, but I don't expect to be able to bring their delegate here until Moonday. I will send a letter to Lictor Sabinus by teleport regardless and pass on any reply. I assume the Iomedan inquisitors of Lastwall are too busy to consult?"