"I don't expect it to prevent all such abuses, but Her Majesty has forbidden the use of torture in interrogations, and this would at least provide a chance of someone in the general public noticing injuries indicating that something like that had occurred. Even the possibility of someone noticing may serve as a deterrent against violations of Her Majesty's will."

"But they could be healed."

"I agree that that is a significant problem. With that being said, if would-be torturers need to secure the services of a cleric, whose presence must then be explained, or else purchase expensive magical items, I expect it will at least render their task more difficult, if not entirely impossible."

Nod.

"With the Asmodeans gone, and Kuthites rightly outlawed, I think it will be difficult to find clerics willing to cover up illegal torture."

He is speaking to an Abadaran, who are said to put a price on anything. But hopefully their price for this will be high.

"Devil's blood will presumably only get harder to come by."

Oh, right, the Chelish wizards have a spell for healing, don't they? He had forgotten that. Is it important enough to change his position?

...no, probably not.

Devil's blood? How is that relevant — right, Infernal Healing. Some people say it was invented by Aroden, in the days after Earthfall. (Jonatan's always found that explanation a bit suspect; Aroden would do it if He had no other choice, of course, but the healing of the righteous gods is far better for most practical purposes.)

In any case, Fiducia Agramunt is almost certainly right about the logistical difficulties. He nods.

"The benefits you name are real, though I think smaller than you believe. More importantly, you have neglected the costs, which are considerable. I will never again witness a public execution without seeing a blood opera again in my mind's eye, with the convict the star. Are you familiar with blood opera, gentlemen? Most of you never lived somewhere - and somewhen - it was practiced, and Fiducia Agramunt does not seem the type. It is much like an ordinary opera, except that at at least one time per night at the climax, and for more 'sophisticated' productions several before that, one of the characters dies, and just before the death, at the height of the aria, the singer is exchanged with a convict who looks similar enough and has a matching costume -- if no such convict is available, one is created earlier in the week. And they die in truth, the same way as 'their' character, on stage in full view. Blood stains are often left on the scenery for the full run of the show, so that everyone can see even earlier in the show that they will not be disappointed."

"That is what a public execution means to the people of Cheliax - a man subjected to torment and death for the purposes of entertaining them, if they are high in social stature, or entertaining and intimidating them, if they are low. It is corrosive to public morals and to the morals of those who order it, and a reminder that we are not so very different from the Thrunes, and will reinforce that reminder every time it takes place. If we were writing a constitution for a state which had recently thrown off the yoke of Taldor, I would not oppose it, and in forty years, it may become the right choice. But in the state we have, I must oppose it. Right now, it serves only Evil."

"The queen refused to make a spectacle even of criminals who had richly earned their death like Bernat Vidal-Espinoza, because she understands this. Lastwall does not practice it either. Do not override her, for the sake of everyone who watches and everyone who has to order such a sentence."

"I think Lastwall would reconsider their policies if they had the catastrophic effects that they've had here in Cheliax. As you say, different policies are for different times and places, and trying to run a nation formerly ruled by Asmodeans according to radical nonsense has sufficed only to result in the present catastrophe. I am not a foreigner; I know Chelish people, and I say this will be good for public order, good for their respect for the government, and absolutely necessary to be taken seriously."

"In what way has executing criminals in private contributed to any catastrophe at all, Conde? Which public executions would have sufficed to prevent the riots of the third? What other catastrophe could you mean, that in some way occurred because we killed criminals in private rather than make performances of them? They did not riot that night because they were unaware they could die for it; indeed, the riots were so dangerous because Espinoza convinced them that they would, and they would go to Heaven if they did. Yes, the censorship regime was radical, a problem, and a cause; that is why I and others wrote new laws for it over the week and brought a combined rule to the floor as soon as we could. But do not lay the blame at the door of 'radical nonsense' and then claim that as evidence that something utterly unrelated must be changed."

"I do think that routine public executions would have prevented the riots of the third, yes, and the other riots since the Queen took power. I think that it is good for people to know the rules. And they don't know and don't trust anything that happens in private, nor should they. They do not perceive the government as taking crimes seriously, because the government does not do any of the things that they understand the government to do when it takes crimes seriously. 

I would find your analysis of the riots more persuasive, Archduchess, if you had not spoken in Valia Wain's defense. I think your closeness to her and commitment to protecting her may be making it difficult for you to analyse the situation neutrally."

"Your Highness, you told us not ten minutes ago that many Chelish subjects assumed, in the absence of public executions, that the barbaric punishments of the Thrunes were continuing in private. It seems far more difficult to disabuse them of this notion if they cannot even observe which punishments are actually in use."

"I agree with much of what the Archduchess said. Was it the private executions that led to the events of the Third, or was it the lack of torture, or the lack of censorship, or the fact that the Lord-Mayor was an Abadaran rather than a soldier? Perhaps it was all of these, perhaps none; perhaps any one would have sufficed, or perhaps all were necessary. Perhaps it, or something similar, was inevitable with a population recently liberated from Hell.

In Lastwall, they would change their policies if the policies led to horrendous violence, but in Lastwall they would change only one law at a time, and so it would be clear what the cause of the disorder was. In Cheliax we do not have that luxury. Many laws were changed at once, because nearly every law previously in effect was the work of Asmodeus. Now, you propose to repeat that folly with far less justification. The night of the Third was terrible, yes, and I would like to prevent its recurrence, but we do not know which laws will best do that. We can only guess, by looking to the examples of other countries. Shall we do as Lastwall does, Lastwall which is the most stable land in Avistan? Or should we turn instead to the example of Taldor, and of Galt at the height of its revolution, and of Cheliax-under-Hell which, if you have not forgotten, was so incapable of preventing riots that half the continent revolted out from under them? Perhaps predictably, I stand by the laws of Lastwall. Any speculation that they are unsuited in this way for the people of Cheliax is merely speculation."

Cansellarion being a paladin about everything was expected, but this seems rather extreme. 

“Lord Marshall, Lastwall is an admirable redoubt of stability, but no other realm has Iomedae to steer its path and bless its people. Nor can we hope for even a fraction of that leadership now that the Goddess has withdrawn her hand from the mortal realm. 

Every country not directly guided by Iomedae has found these laws necessary! You ask us to look to the example of other lands and then ignore the evidence of our eyes! Even Mendev, under Iomedae’s protection, has public executions, no?”

Jonatan is rapidly becoming sympathetic to the position that paladins should be holy warriors and should absolutely not be anywhere near the government.

He nods. "I do not know if public executions would have prevented the riots. But I can tell you that in Arodenite Cheliax they did not cause riots; if they had, that would of course have been more than sufficient reason to oppose them.

With that being said, Lord Marshal, I confess I struggle to understand your opposition. A man is just as dead whether he hangs publicly or privately. There is no special property of the public square that makes executions conducted there more painful. The Archduchess tells us it is corrosive to a man's morals for him to witness the death of a convict; do you believe it is less corrosive to encourage him to put the deaths of convicts out of his mind entirely, as though turning a blind eye to them will make them any less real?"

The discussion of public executions continues a little longer, with no clear consensus. Eventually, Jonatan calls a vote on the proposal.

This is for them being available to view in case anyone wants to verify it's happening and how, right, not for obligatory attendance? If so, in favor.

(Yes, he's not proposing to make them mandatory.)

Against.

In favor.

In favor.

In favor.

In favor.

This one he has no strong opinions on. Menador is doing public hangings. He does think it's salutary that the people know what's happening, and doing it privately sounds like it probably requires new facilities. He should probably still be assuming that Iomedae and Lastwall know better than him, but he doesn't see it.

Abstain.