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"What would happen if you didn't do that, anyway?"

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"Have you tried - breaking sworn word?"

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"No, but if I did, nothing would happen except people being angry at me. ...Maybe it's a free will thing."

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"Everything hurts. Hurts worse, like being pulled apart. Can't sleep. Can't want. Nothing is pleasurable, nothing makes you happy, can't remember things you wanted or why you cared, can't think of any thing that would feel good except doing what you swore."

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"What happens if you can't do what you swore?"
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"If you're trying as hard as you can that's okay. Can say "will eat first, then stronger, then attack" or "outnumbered, would lose, will wait for one to wander off.' Don't have to be stupid."

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"What if - what if I turned you into a bird. What would you do if you were a harmless, little bird?"

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It blinks. "Go back and ask for orders? That's what to do when you don't know what to do."

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"Birds can't talk. Do you have osanwë?"

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"Melkor can - can hear in your head and tell you are an orc-bird not just a bird."

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Well, Angband's smoke would kill any swifts who ventured near, but the smoke might or might not be a permanent installation, it sure seems inconvenient to her... ugh.

"I can't let you go if you're going to hurt Elves," she murmurs. "Or bring information to Melkor."
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It pulls its knees up to its chest and starts scratching at its skin again. "That's what I'm going to do."

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"I'm trying to think of a way to make it so you can't, but don't have to die. That's better, isn't it? Right now you aren't hurting elves but you're glad you don't have to provoke me into killing you?"

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"Yes. I like not hurting, I don't want to die. I can't not do what I swore, though. Killing Elves isn't bad. Elves kill us if they see us first. Even kill the children."

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"They haven't sworn to. Well, not most of them, anyway, some of them might have, but most haven't. They could stop if you stopped."

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"Oh." It considers for a second. "We can't stop."

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"Not unless you and I think of something," she says, "no."

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"If...if us stopping hurts and kills more Elves, in the long run, then we could stop hurting Elves now?"

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"Elves don't marry or have children in troubled times," she says. "There are only so many Elves now. But if orcs weren't attacking them, they would calm down, and there would be many, many Elves, and even without orcs around they would find things in their lives that hurt them; and eventually they would die, because eventually they would meet with accident or violence from some non-orc, or they'd fade away; and this could be billions and billions of Elves, over long enough, which would otherwise never be born to hurt and die."
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It blinks. "Oh. Okay. I think I could not hurt and kill Elves if it was just so there would be more Elves who would hurt and die. Still have to bring Elves back to Melkor."

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"Well, you couldn't do that if you were a bird, could you? You couldn't carry them."

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"I don't want to be a bird. I like being an orc. Especially now that nothing hurts."

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"Being a bird isn't bad, you know, they can fly. And I can't let you bring any Elves back to Melkor."

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"Can't sing, can't tell stories, can't have little orcs, can't hurt Elves."

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"It's true," she acknowledges. "It's not fair; and nothing in your life has been fair; but I still can't let you bring Elves to Melkor."

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