"The best, by which I mean only, way to make a living as an ethical philosopher is by writing defenses of Lawful Evil. Asmodeus is willing to sink so many resources into trying to damn people. --Before you ask, I'm from Brastlewark, gnomes have freedom of speech in Brastlewark as long as we don't corrupt the humans elsewhere in Cheliax."

Yeah, he's done what he had to do to make money also.  This Gnome's past is an even bigger liability than his, so after he returns the treatise he needs to never associate or be seen with them again.

"Freedom of speech?  I'm not really sure where to start with asking about that?  Does it -"  oh wait he said Gnomes so it won't work as a backup option to passing his loyalty tests, not that he needs it! "Does it -" and now he's stuttering.  "Yeah, uh, what"

"Freedom of speech means that the government isn't allowed to arrest you for saying things. Or in this case it means that the government is theoretically allowed to arrest you for saying things but is worried that if they'd try it they'd go from 'theoretically allowed to' to 'can't.' Very important ambiguity, that one." 

The political stuff feels even riskier than the alignment stuff to talk about, so he'll try to nudge the topic back.

"That sounds... hmm chaotic?  I'm curious how it works in practice, but I'm also curious about how pursuing happiness doesn't end up making you Chaotic Neutral?  Or wait, is there a disconnect between theory and implementation of your axiology?  Like it says to be Chaotic Good but in implementation you come out Chaotic Neutral?"  

It is common knowledge that Good is too hard to actually achieve unless you're a Paladin or something, but he is going to be somewhat annoyed if that is true even for ethics philosophers.

"Well, as one line of argument, we are social creatures and therefore living a happy life means interacting with others well-- having good friendships, taking care of our children and parents, participating in a well-ordered state such as this constitutional convention will hopefully lay out. So we can ask how we should act in order to have good friendships and good children and so on. And in general you should be kind and cooperative and concerned for the wellbeing of others. So Good."

This sounds like standard Good pabulum?  Where is the math and axioms?  Also, the closest thing Fernando has to friends are a few wizards that tolerate him somewhat across the other side of Cheliax, he hasn't seen his mother in almost two decades, and he never liked his father in the first place.

Fernando doesn't quite keep the skepticism off his face.

"Is that actually your main argument?  And... is this argument saying there aren't actually that many mortals that find happiness from evil stuff, like dominating your enemies?"  Yeah that's bullshit, maybe less bullshit outside Cheliax or in Brastlewark or whatever?  Outside Cheliax is Nidal and he knows it is even more bullshit there.  Well, at least he learned it was bullshit before spending a silver on another treatise or whatever.

"Do you like art or philosophy or theoretical mathematics, or have they banned all that from Chelish wizarding schools and replaced it with Bonus Torture?"

He actually chuckles at that.

"Yeah I like math, even the parts that aren't useful for magic.  I would have avoided philosophy for risk of heresy before the Four Day War, but so far it seems fun in a math kind of way, so I think I'll take up reading some of it.  I don't know if I like art that much?  For art, my school only taught the bare minimum of drawing for spell scribing, the math was mostly focused on wizardy (they told me I wasn't going to be a good enough wizard to need the more theoretical math), and the only philosophy they taught was Asmodeanism"

Ah damn the humor got a bit more honesty out of him than he meant it to.  But he doesn't want to beat his emotions into shape just to minimize every risk, he's enjoying this conversation in a way he hasn't enjoyed any conversation in a long time.

"You can see that it's better to have a life where you study math, right, and see how beautiful it is? Even if someone said 'I'm happy, and my life consists of nothing but drinking and eating and whoring,' he's wrong, there's something better out there?" 

Okay actually he is going to work on repressing his feelings for the rest of this conversation.

"I... yeah."

"So if you add up all the stuff you can enjoy and find happiness in, and do that stuff, that averages out Chaotic Good?"

He still doesn't believe it, one happy torture of an enemy damns you no matter how much you enjoy math and art and whatever happy stuff is out there.

But... a list of Good stuff to do and enjoy sounds helpful for passing his loyalty test, so maybe he will pay another silver for another treatise after all.

"If all you want is to crush your enemies, you're making a mistake, the same way the lecher makes a mistake when he thinks there's nothing to gain but a Charm Person from diagrams and numbers on a piece of paper. And all of Infernal Cheliax is set up to keep you from noticing the mistake you're making."

"So, moving onto the theoretical math part, which I like and am at least sometimes passable on... do you have a list of enjoyable stuff and how much good and evil each item counts for and like percentages on each item and then a total value that comes out Good?  And uh Chaotic too, for that axis?"

Actually, a list with exact evilness and goodness sound perfect for a larger scope 'avoid damnation' plan, but it doesn't sound like it would work for reasons Fernando can't articulate to himself.

"And uh," what was the word, he glances at his notes "uh disjoint.  Is it possible to actually follow this list and actually come out Chaotic Good?  Or at least Chaotic Neutral?  Or do you end up disjointing your axiology and actual alignment?"

Sometimes with Gnomes you have to be direct.

"Are you personally Chaotic Good?"

"Do you think Chaotic Good people generally write Asmodean propaganda?"

"But you used the money to do enough fun and good stuff to cancel out, right?  Did you at least get up to Chaotic Neutral?"

"I don't have a detectable alignment nor do I have any particular reason to care about what it is, gnomes don't get an afterlife."

Wow that makes the bleaching thing worse, but not that much worse than Hell, so Fernando isn't wasting any emotion on sympathy.

"And you don't know of any obscure spells or techniques to determine your alignment even if you are not strong enough for standard detection?"

That might actually be useful for the 'avoid damnation' plan, namely checking his progress on it, but he probably won't get that much progress because even Gnome ethical philosophers know actually getting Good is damn near impossible.

"Not a wizard, catch me in a century or two."

He had hoped there would be something.  Well no guarantee if there was it would be something he could afford in the first place.

"Well, in that case... do you have a list like I mentioned as part of the argument for the axiology?  Good things and evil things with relative happiness and relative effects on alignment?  I guess it's not that practically useful without enough money, but I can appreciate theory also."

And if he ever strikes it absurdly rich he can avoid damnation also!  So two impossible things are down to one impossible thing.  Ha.  His life almost feels like some fucked up morality tale, maybe an Abadaran one?  Do they even have morality tales?  If he is ever absurdly rich, he'll pay an Abadaran and ask.

"So"-- he sketches a diagram on a piece of paper-- "there are various virtues you can cultivate, and they're all the middle, or the golden mean. If you go too far on one end or too far on the other, then you wind up harming yourself or doing something Evil. One you're probably familiar with is courage, which is the middle between cowardice and recklessness. Courage is good-- it's why bravery is one of Cayden Cailean's areas of concern-- but it's so useful that not even Asmodeans manage to stamp it out, as counterproductive to their own goals as they are in general."

He leans over intently to look at the diagram.  He starts to copy it in his notebook, but stops and decides to listen first, so he doesn't miss anything.

"So for the pleasures, you want temperance, which is in between overindulgence and complete abstinence. And for giving money away, you want to be generous, neither stingy nor giving away money you don't have. You want to have proper pride, neither overly humble nor boasting about virtues you don't actually possess. You want to be patient, neither breaking into fits of rage at small slights nor unable to get angry at things that really deserve it. You want to be truthful, neither a liar nor blunt. You want to be just, neither completely selfless nor completely selfish-- give others their due and give yourself your due too."

At least he wouldn't have to go extreme Good under this axiology.  But wait, if its moderate about everything...

"That sounds like true neutral?  If you're moderately between everything?  I thought Chaotic Good would be... I don't know... more overindulgence, like of alcohol?  Which isn't moderate?" 

That is the common complaint about Cayden, right?  And even Good countries don't like excess drunkenness, so he doesn't think complaining about the Drunk is now heretical?

"If alignment were about being sorted between vices of excess and vices of deficiency, then this would be Neutral. But in fact overindulgence in alcohol isn't Good and even Cayden Cailean disapproves of it. Try asking one of his clerics."

"I think I will try to find one of his clerics at some point."  He didn't get the impression there were many.

He turns the sentence around in his head... 'vices of excess'... 'vices of deficiency' he writes that down.

"It sounds like you have some advanced categorization scheme of vices and virtues?  Did you invent that yourself as part of your axiology or is it an older schema?"  There, a touch of flattery.

He copies down more of the diagram now, before he forgets, as he speaks.  And he writes down the key relevant bit of the previous sentence: 'neither stingy nor giving away money'.  He's still not sure how that isn't just neutral.

"It goes back about two thousand years, to the golden age of Taldor."