"You're just very obvious," he says.

"I agree with Karlenius in principle though I don't know if I've followed an order in my life - "

"I definitely want to restrict Karlenius's claim which I also agree with to armies not societies, you should not train civilians to unhesitatingly obey confusing orders so long as they aren't unconscionable - hmmm, no, maybe I do believe that, let me think. If there were frequent monster attacks I could imagine it being worthwhile to train civilians to obey confusing orders in specific emergency situations, which you'd want to plainly delineate from the rest of the time. But I think it'd be correct in that case, to so train them, assuming you'd tried various things and it reduced casualties best."

She is not certain that that it in fact for the best, but that's not something she wants to discuss with Karlenius, which is what would end up happening if she said so.

And the whole problem with Lastwall is that they represent Golarion's vision of Good sincerely trying to defeat Evil, which looks like rigid obedience and cheerful, total abnegation of the self – 

– and that sounds like the sort of thing which might invite questions about what Aroden is doing and give Alfirin a small heart attack. 

"I'm not sure what to think of training civilians to obey orders – but then, my wife likes to make fun of me because I'm of two minds on the morality of giving orders to our three-year-old." 

"See, that's the sort of thing that tells Marit that you're Chaotic Good."

"I think I believe something like - the shapes people are twisted into by helplessness, by having no idea what they can usefully do, are very bad for them. And 'in this context, listen to this person' - is double-edged, obviously, if the person being listened to is not worthy of it, or if the person loses the habit of checking. But - on the whole I think it's strengthening for people, to know about actions that advance their goals. 'orders' of course also conflates - I think civilians should not be punished for nonadherence to emergency procedures if they only endangered themselves, and soldiers should. Is shouting 'get to the barn and hide!' an order? Only if people have been trained in listening to you? Only if you have a very persuasive shout? Only if you're in uniform?"

"It seems to me that the shapes people take on when they do not choose for themselves how to advance their goals are bad for them. And that obedience like that can be harmful even if the person giving orders is worthy of it, even if the person listening always checks."

"I'm trying to think, now, how responsive Aroden would have to be before I was meaningfully weaker for having all my actions dictated. If it cost him nothing, if Commune was a cantrip -

- I think I'd just get more ambitious??? My job would be coming up with a wider range of plans that had some tiny chance of being worth investing further thought in, and assembling the search tree so that we could narrow down faster on the useful ones, and then delegating the Commune-cantrips for parallelizing -

- it'd be a completely different skillset, and I guess riding a horse makes you worse at walking, but - I don't think it makes you importantly weaker."

"Iomedae," says Arnisant, "that's what you'd do, if Aroden could communicate freely with you."

"It seems likely to me that for people who are not Iomedae, inculcating genuine obedience cuts directly against the instinct to check if your commander is worth following. The ideal soldier might follow all just orders, disobeys all unjust orders, and never experience any confusion about which is which – but in real life, bending them in the direction of obedience just makes it easier, on the margin, to obey. 

I do think armies are necessary, since we've got a world full of Asmodeans and lich tyrants who won't vanquish themselves, and given that they're necessary, their soldiers ought to be bent towards those habits of mind which make them more effective on the field and less inclined to rape and pillage off of it. In a better world, we wouldn't require this – this topiary of the soul." 

She does appreciate that there is at least one Iomedae, even if most people are not her.

She is also very glad there is an Élie.

"And if Commune was not limited to yes-or-no answers? If Aroden could tell you his plans, in full, and they were always better than any alternatives you'd devised?"

"- then we'd fix everything, and that part would probably be unhealthy for my spirit or whatever, but we'd have eternity to enjoy it in once we'd fixed it. ...

The first part of what Elie said, at least, seems right to me, that it's a rare person for whom obedience is - an impetus to check much much harder if the person you're obeying is worth it."

Marit's invisible undetectable air elemental boops her on the nose. She doesn't keep permanent spells up; she dies too often for it to be economical. She startles. 

He can't help it, he laughs. 

"Did you set that up half an hour ago just for this," said Karlenius. 

         "If I'm the only person who made plans to check if Iomedae is a suitable commander, tonight, then I think that proves her point," Marit says. 

"Well, I knew you'd done something off Elie and Alfirin's faces, so I looked around for Evil, and didn't see any, and I thought, 'would Pharasma allow any creature that dared assail me to read as non-Evil? of course not' so then I relaxed and forgot all about it."

"Ah, I shouldn't have winked, gave the whole game away. I was planning to bring a captive Glabreezu, but it turned out Marit had it covered."

"I'm sure you could have managed it, but I would have moved my left eyebrow an involuntary one-sixteenth of an inch and ruined all your hard work."

"I have no idea what we're talking about," says Arnisant. 

"Marit has unlawfully assailed me at my table, and I suspect all of our mages of conspiring with him."

"Technically, under Taldane law, Marit has not assaulted you, merely contracted such assault by a third party. And Élie and I are accomplices at worst, certainly not conspirators."

"That would depend on if the creature was summoned or called – called, I assume – "

"Kshssssshahsa scouts around camp for me on a routine basis," confirms Marit.

"Why do you have a bound elemental scouting our own camp - never mind, I briefly forgot who I was talking to."