"If you learned last week that Altarrin had secrets he judged it wiser not to tell you because that was more footprint for the gods to see, would it have caused you to question his loyalty to the Empire? Only tells you and you're under a compulsion he can place is -" She pauses for ten of her precious seconds to actually think. Altarrin would've told the Emperor if it was better for the Emperor to know. But Altarrin does like and trust the Emperor, and so does Carissa, he's - groping towards the things he'd need to understand - and Altarrin being dead means substantial chance of Carissa being dead - and he must have realized he was going to be captured, considered it possible he'd be captured alive, considered that an acceptable risk -

"- yeah, all right, I'll agree to that."

....Nod. "That's– good." 

The plans that Caris proposed have the unfortunate downside that Caris proposed them, and so - if they're in one of the bad scenarios - presumably selected to have elements he can work around. And the fast-acting poison idea is a non-starter, that sounds like exactly the sort of thing where the gods could cause a fumble and then Altarrin dies anyway (not to mention he doesn't, actually, know the limitations of Caris' healing magic, maybe it cures poison - or delays the effects long enough to obtain an antidote elsewhere - 

"...I have an idea. I think it doesn't require trusting anyone except for me but I don't see around it requiring trusting me." Kastil is going to hate it because it involves putting himself at risk. "We can workshop it if you're worried it does leave opportunities for godinterference, but - I wouldn't be bound by compulsions not to harm you, you would be - relying on believing that my incentive here is to keep you and Altarrin alive. Can you work with that." 

"Might be workable, go on."

He takes a deep breath. 

"I give you a - not an exact location but a range, maybe of a mile or so. It'll be far away from anyone else and no one else will know the location I chose - I can order everyone out and raise shields so I'm unscryable from outside this room while I tell you, I think that still only requires that you trust me and not my guards." Kastil will hate it but if it saves Altarrin Kastil can deal - honestly it's very plausible that Bastran is going to need to arrest him, if he wants to do this, and he feels...kind of terrible about that, actually...but. If he's sure enough that he's right - and they can sort it out later, he's not going to have his top Mage-Inquisitor executed for doing an excellent and thorough investigation... 

"I go alone to where Altarrin is - I'm not telling you where and I don't know if you can read my mind from there but I don't know it yet. I order everyone else out– uh, I would feel better about this part if you were comfortable with a heavily compulsioned Healer accompanying Altarrin, he's very unstable, but that's bringing in another person. ...I roll some dice to select a random place in the range I gave you. I drop him through a Gate, it'll be up for less than two seconds – that's the point of greatest additional risk to me if you're powerful and evil so I'd appreciate suggestions to mitigate it further." 

He rubs his shoulder; he's tense. "I scry the location. If you move, if you do any magic other than the your healing spell - I don't know what it looks like so, really, it's if you do more than one spell - in five seconds I drop a mage on top of you with orders to Final Strike. - I intend to use some discretion, if it seems really clear you're, I don't know, defending Altarrin from the gods striking a tree with lightning and knocking it onto you...but you should try not to push it."

He sighs. "...The issue is that you could, theoretically, instantaneously-transport him out first and then heal him from a location we don't know, but if the spell is at all hard on people then I think it's quite likely he wouldn't survive it. And I intend to take measures such that Altarrin is trackable for us. I'm not going to tell you the details. I'll take suggestions on other precautions for that. ...Anyway, the plan is that you would stay there, with Altarrin, until you've gotten him oriented and he's ready to be picked up, at which point you can contact me directly. And, if you wish, leave, but I think this will go better if we negotiate something where you're comfortable accompanying him. - He's under very restrictive compulsions but they should let him follow simple instructions, as long as he's not using his mage-gift, and answer direct questions. I don't actually know if you could remove them but it would probably show up as a second spell. I would appreciate it if you don't try." 

"Proposed modifications so I don't have to trust you as much: I pick the Gate location. You don't have to personally do the Gate, so you're safer, but I'll pick a location where I can protect myself from anyone dropped through it, and it's somewhere where it'd be hard for you to lay an ambush. Altarrin is still trackable, via whatever means you planned to use to make him that way; I still have a lot to lose if I try to run off with him. I heal him and leave immediately. I contact you in a few days to negotiate my surrender, which is going to be sufficiently complicated I don't want to roll it into this."

"...I was expecting you wouldn't want another mage involved, but I do trust my people and can ensure it with compulsions - and the location leaking is less risky if you won't be there long. I'm concerned that Altarrin may - react badly to finding himself in our custody, if you aren't able to explain in person - I suppose you could write a letter for him - less verifiable but minimizes the risk to you. The idea is that we collect him after you leave?" 

"Yes. Unfortunately, the mechanism by which I will ensure nothing that comes through the Gate can hurt me means that he won't really be able to have a Healer along, but you'll be scrying, and able to send someone in as soon as I leave. I would rather stay with him, but not in a location of your choosing or one you can Final Strike at any time. 

I'll be observing for the next few days to, among other things, see if you keep your word regarding who learns Altarrin's secrets, and I'll contact you and him to negotiate my surrender once I'm satisfied of that."

...He doesn't like it. They're back to the problem where Caris is the one who proposed the conditions, and so in the bad scenarios it's almost certainly a trap. 

If not... If he's right, or honestly even if he's even mostly right and Caris will absolutely betray them given the opportunity but will follow incentives - he thinks this will work. And get them Altarrin, even if under a lot of conditions not to tamper with him. 

If he's wrong, then - he doesn't think they instantly lose, at least not in the worlds where they haven't approximately lost already. They'll still have options. They'll be able to track Altarrin, probably, and if his location is another goddamned plane then they will figure out how to Gate there anyway - he can have the best researchers in the Empire on it - and maybe Caris can alter compulsions, has already gotten rid of the standard ones that forbid altering someone else's, but he's not, actually, putting incredibly high odds on that? ...Numbers. Guess a number. One in...ten? Not higher, he still thinks that Caris made some significant mistakes and if he could have arbitrarily changed around everyone's compulsions that would have...looked different. 

So. In most of the realistic situations: Caris can get Altarrin, if he wants, but not necessarily a very useful Altarrin. Caris cannot cause (any more of) an enormous disaster in the palace, probably. Can't get the Emperor, probably. Will actually be more trackable than before, if he hangs onto Altarrin, which seems like a thing he would have to do in order to get the full benefit of an Altarrin. 

- and if it goes exactly as specified, that's a lot of information. 

"Taken under consideration, at least. I will want to know where you are Gating to, and run it by my advisors. How long does your spell for speaking to me last?" 

"I worry you'll track it if I leave it up all day." It has less than a minute left and Carissa doesn't like revealing her capabilities. "How about, if you decide to accept the offer, you get a mage who is very good at unusually-anchored Gates to Altarrin's location, and in two candlemarks I will contact you again with the precise Gate-location. Altarrin goes through in thirty seconds or I'll get nervous and run away. If you decide not to take the deal, that's fine, just don't send him. If you send him but take more than thirty seconds about it, I'll be gone and he'll die. Anyone else you drop dies.

I - appreciate your willingness to think about whether this can be made to work. I really do want to come back, if we can figure this mess out."

This could theoretically put the mage at risk, but - there should only be a window of seconds for Caris to act, and it would conflict with healing Altarrin - blasting a Gate would get him too - 

"- I am concerned Altarrin may not survive another two candlemarks. I can arrange this in a candlemark, probably, if I - decide to go through with it at all." 

"Fine. One candlemark. Get a very competent mage because the instructions will be complicated and I won't wait around."

"I will be available.

- it would be premature to thank you, when for all I know you are planning to betray us horribly, but." 

"There's a world here where we're both trying, and we can appreciate each other in that one while being suspicious it's not the real one. Good luck. If you end up deciding not to do it I won't hold it against you and I'll keep trying to work this out, though I'll have less to look at in determining whether it's yet safe"

And the scry ends. Hopefully he'll think she did that on purpose.

(The spell winks out. They have not made really any more headway in finding the other plane it's in. ...They've successfully determined it's not the Void and doesn't seem to be any of the Elemental Planes either.) 

He sighs. Sits down. His hands are trying to shake; he doesn't let them. 

Communication-spell to his lead guard, who has presumably been hearing the whole conversation. <I want to run something by Mage-Inquisitor Kastil. He's not going to like it, but I - do need his counsel. If he's unwilling to speak to me directly for mind-control reasons, I can dictate to one of you and you can write a summary for him>

The odds that the Emperor is infectious are negligible. He'll come talk to the Emperor.

<Your majesty desires my counsel?>

<Yes.> 

What's the best order to do this in - he doesn't want to open with the plan itself, Kastil will tell him absolutely not and then he'll have to arrest his top investigator and the fact that he has the power to do this in no way means that he's happy about the prospect. 

<I'm not sure anything I say can change your mind, since your hypothesis here is mind-control, but - I'll say some of my considerations. I think we're relatively unlikely to be in the worst-case-scenario world – where Caris is a cultist of Asmodeus, Asmodeus can actually reach us here, and Carissa's powers include arbitrary mind-control rather than...nonmagical skills like being very persuasive and good at lying and controlling his thoughts, which I won't deny he is. If we're in that scenario I think we've already lost, and it doesn't matter what we do.> 

<Caris might have been a cultist of Asmodeus, but the magic is arcane wizardry and Asmodeus can't reach us, which seems more likely because I suspect Asmodeus would have already conquered us, and not politely. And in that case, honestly, I have no idea why anyone would keep worshipping him - it's one thing when you're in his country under his power and have no choice, but once you've escaped his control...> Shrug. <We can break that down into, either he has undetectable arbitrary mind-control or he doesn't. I think he probably doesn't, or he would have avoided nearly being captured. Caris without access to Asmodeus and with only some mind-control is probably someone we can beat.> 

<I think you've been putting a lot of weight on the claim that Caris is working with our gods, who are opposed to the Eastern Empire. I don't think so. Partly for illegible gut feelings that I don't expect you to take seriously in the slightest, but - he wants to save Altarrin. He's willing to take on some risk to himself, to do that – er, I'll get to that in a moment, I'm not done, but point is, I don't think he wanted Altarrin dead.> 

Sigh. This is the hardest part. 

<I'm worried this could be a godplot in the opposite direction. If I start from the premise that neither I nor Altarrin were mind-controlled – skillfully finessed, maybe, I'm not claiming Caris is honest, but not directly altered – then it looks an awful lot like Vkandis took Altarrin down, and then found a way to leverage that into having us take Caris down for him. I think it's - a very plausible alternate story - that the gods want Caris dead for exactly the reasons they want Altarrin dead, because he's disruptive and ambitious.> 

<And, sure, maybe he wants to take over the Empire. But I think we can work with that, if he's not serving any gods and I'm currently at least 90% confident he isn't. Half of my ministers would betray me and take my place if they saw an opening and their compulsions let them think about it.> 

<...I know your job is to prevent threats from the gods, and nothing else. I know why that takes someone as paranoid as you. You've done it admirably. But - as Emperor, it's not only my job to hold off the gods. I also need to be able to see, and take, opportunities that will help the Empire flourish. Even if I'm not certain, and it's a gamble. ...I wouldn't consider it if it was a binary choice between "Caris is genuinely entirely on Altarrin's side" and "Caris is the puppet of a torture god" but I think most of the bad scenarios are - less all-or-nothing than that. And it's worth taking some measured risk to get information.> 

He lets out his breath. 

<Tell me what considerations I'm missing. Actual facts or logical steps I forgot to include, I mean, not just - weighting the risks and the benefits differently> 

<First, most gods' powers are based on a solid geographical core of worshippers and temples, and they are weaker outside of this area. If Asmodeus is missing that, he might be almost completely blind, with Caris having only the powers already given to him - until such time as Caris's power is secure, and he can begin establishing a cult.>

<Second, humans regularly worship gods who horrifically mistreat them, as Taymyrr demonstrates, even once they have the power to cease to do so. These attachments are bizarre and insane, Your Majesty, but they are not new.>

<Third, his powers over minds almost certainly have limitations we do not know - but we cannot tell what they are, and the gods will guide us into guessing wrong. So will he.>

<Fourth, he does not need to be working with our gods directly to be their pawn. My lowest-crisis-threat scenario remains that he is simply an adventurer with a wild talent who has taken control over you and Altarrin, whom the gods aimed at the empire because - like most foreign adventurers - he would be a disastrous ruler.>d. 

<I do recognize the model by which they want Caris dead because he is a valuable resource for the empire, but, Your Majesty, the Empire survived without him before, and it can survive without him in the future. The Empire is expanding. Our people are prosperous. The chief threats to us are all internal; they are threats from our misusing our resources, and becoming slaves to a god or falling into civil war. The vision of the First Emperor remains intact. The Empire is not failing, and we do not need to take desperate risks to preserve it.>

<Noted.> He has, in fact, literally been taking notes. <I appreciate your advice. You are dismissed.> 

...And he'll pass on the order immediately to find an Adept mage with advanced Gate-skill – they need to be able to cast a solo, thresholdness Gate with an 'unusual' search destination - a magic item, he's guessing, and if he's right they may need to be able to do it off a description and Thoughtsensed impression, because they plausibly haven't seen it before - and they need to do this in ten seconds. (Caris gave him thirty but he's being conservative.) They also need to be willing to be subject to more thorough than usual compulsions, and quarantined afterward; the facilities will be comfortable and it's probably temporary. He won't deny that this is a risky mission. He thinks it's more than worth it. 

(The mage does not, technically, need to agree to the mission. He wants a shortlist of all the mages who could do this, whether or not they want to. But...it's a compromise, and one he doesn't necessarily have to make. 

He's been thinking a lot about compromises, lately.) 

All right. He is giving himself thirty minutes to tear this plan apart from every angle, and then he's making a decision, one way or another. 

All right. How much weight does he want to put on Kastil's warnings? 

Gods less powerful outside their realm: true. But from here they're not, in fact, at a point where they're handing the reins of the Empire to Caris. If he does accept his surrender, he's going to send Kastil and his team to a secure location first, and give them a set of parameters for which they would plan a coup. (And discuss this with Caris, obviously, that will need to be part of their later negotiations. He suspects Caris will find it reasonable, to have a set of guidelines for not alarming his backup team.) 

Humans worship gods when it's a terrible idea: sooort of? He's actually pretty sure that the religion of Atet persists because it's convenient for those in power – it adds a patina of divine approval to their authority, and promises them a lovely afterlife. Every god has their fanatic worshippers, but at a rough guess it's - one in a thousand, and certainly that's bad enough when aimed well, but he vaguely suspects if they weren't fanatics for Vkandis or Atet, they would be fanatics for purely mundane things like expanding their kingdom. The people who don't personally benefit from the system...do flee, when they can. Caris said that Cheliax had to take measures to maintain leverage over its wizards who could otherwise just leave... 

Pointing out that they can't really put bounds on Caris' mind-powers: true. He doesn't think it was load-bearing in his argument, though. 

People can be accidental pawns for gods unknowingly, without worshipping them or choosing an alliance: yes, but that's a much weaker point, and one that applies just as well to Kastil himself. 

The Empire isn't failing, is doing fine, and so minimizing losses just is more important than maximizing gains: ...it's true that there's always an asymmetry there. Though. The Empire isn't failing, but is it succeeding?

(Compromises...) 

He's suddenly very sure that Altarrin doesn't see the Empire as succeeding. Altarrin sees its strengths, but also the endless costs they pay, in lives and in the wellbeing of their citizens, to hold it together, and - it's not enough. He suddenly feels like Altarrin, for all that he supports Kastil in his caution, has spent his entire life fighting back against some kind of reflexive slide toward more and more paranoia, more and more compromises. 

...which is a thought that is definitely suspect for being the result of mind-control. 

He turns it over and over in his mind. Find other angles. Try pulling out certain pieces, to see if he's overweighting them - is he biased by wanting to see Altarrin again? By his curiosity about Golarion, questions he'll never learn the answers to if they kill Caris first? By the fact that it would be embarrassing to admit he let himself get mind-controlled by a foreign agent? 

(He's really quite sure that he's not weighing the sex, as part of this. ...Actually, as a pre-commitment and to demonstrate that, possibly sex with Caris should be off the table until and if Kastil admits that working with him does not appear to be a disaster. This thought is not even particularly painful, which means his feelings must be doing a good job of staying in their box all the way over there.)  

If he declines, in the world where Caris is their enemy, then in some ways their position is worse? He doesn't expect the Office of Inquiry to be able to find a Caris who doesn't want to be found. With no Altarrin to return to, and with his relationship with the Emperor burned, he'll probably - leave, maybe go to the other continent, and do exactly what he was going to do anyway.

(Caris said he put 40% odds on dying, that way. But in the scenarios where Caris is the most significant threat, that would have been a lie for sympathy.) 

Deciding either way is terrifying, but not deciding is - actually just deciding on no. Their window is closing soon. 

He makes a decision. 

(He is miserable about it but nobody has to know.) 

He gives the Imperial order via private comms-spell to all the members of his guard, and he goes to arrest Mage-Inquisitor Kastil. He extremely doubts Kastil will resist - he expects Kastil to give him a sad resigned look and say he's not surprised but he hoped they still had a chance, or something like that - and he owes it to Kastil to do this face to face. 

Kastil nods politely. <As you command, Your Majesty,> he says, a sad resigned look on his face, and will go quietly with his guards without making any trouble. Hopefully it will be one of the prisons where he can catch up on his reading time.

It's about what he expected. 

(He's worried something will go wrong, and it will be via Kastil somehow, but - damn it, he needs Altarrin to think about how to protect against that.) 

He gets a consenting Adept mage. Gives them the briefing on what he knows so far, which is not a lot. Discusses with the Mage-Inquisitor who he emergency-appointed to temporarily replace Kastil he is very very clear about the temporary part. 

They're really reluctant to reveal the location of the headquarters and prison area to anyone who might even plausibly come into contact with Caris. Bastran will stay here and not be told. The mage doing their fancy Gate will be placed under a compulsion not to try to trace the location via studying any of the Gate structures (it's very hard to do that but it's not impossible and he's excellent at this), and a very thorough suite of other compulsions including against doing any magic except the Gate on demand and defensive shielding if it becomes necessary, and then Gated over by someone else, blindfolded and ordered not to use mage-sight until they're in Altarrin's cell, which he'll enter after they have their instructions. Just in case Altarrin is an imposter, somehow, and totally faking the thing where the Healers are just barely keeping him alive. 

This takes, like, ten minutes. Twenty minutes to go. Bastran paces, and worries, and resists the urge to ask for updates on Altarrin's condition every thirty seconds.