"From what I've seen of Necori, that doesn't surprise me as much as it should."

"Did he tell you the thing with his reputation?"

"Is it that he is notorious for kissing other men?"

"More the fact that he gets caught on purpose but yeah."

"I'm not sure I understand it."

"I'm not sure I do either," she shrugs. "But he had a point that if someone at that party was going to get kidnapped it might as well be someone who would get something out of it, whyever they might consider the relevant notoriety something to get out of it. And then he ended up like me instead of like the poor souls down by the lake, so."

"Yes. I'm... glad of that."

"Your father said if he'd met Necori before me Necori would probably be a swan and I have complicated feelings about that. Like. I'm glad for Necori, but at the same time I feel kind of guilty on account of whatever poor soul he does come across next."

"One day I will solve the stability problem and he won't need to torture anyone," she says, "and I think it's possible, now, that when that happens he will stop."

"I like to think I might--make it easier. Since he can get at least some of what he wants ethically instead of having to choose between getting any of what he wants and having any ethics."

"...My father and ethics is a... complicated subject."

"That doesn't even a little bit surprise me."

"Do you know what I mean, then?"

"...I'm not sure that I know all of what you mean, but I'm pretty sure I know at least some of it."

"Well. Which parts?"

"It's a little hard to put in words, but...a normal person who had ethics and had done--the things your father's done--would probably hate themselves, and that's...not something he's going to do? That's not quite the thing I mean, but it's symptomatic of it."

"Ah," she says. "That's... not quite the thing I meant."

"Which thing did you mean?"

"...Father sometimes says that I am a good person and he is not. That's... true. But it's not the whole story. The way he talks about how he was when he was young..." She trails off, searching for words.

(She thinks back to when he mentioned his younger self to her. She's not completely certain where Iri's going with this but suspects she'll understand when she gets there.)

"...I don't think not having any ethics is his problem," she says. "I think it's a solution. I think... the thing that he has, or had, where most people keep their morals, is the thing that caused the fall of the Ansati Empire, and we're all better off without it."

"...That makes a disturbing amount of sense."

She nods.

"I didn't necessarily mean actually having ethics when I said that. Just. Not nonconsensually torturing people."

"Yes. But... it might be an important thing to keep in mind. I'm... I have ethics of the normal kind. And I - can't convince him to govern his actions based on what I think is ethical. I've stopped trying. But that isn't because he can't. It's because... the way I think about these things is exactly the wrong way to convince him with. He can't think the way I think, it won't work for him, he needs something else."