"Where does that bottom out? Like, right now you're talking to us about this opinion and if someone is inspired and goes and lobbies the king to add an elected council or something, that's not you doing it but it's an effect you have."

Urtho seems a little nonplussed by this. "...No, I think the role of a teacher, in encouraging young people to think and debate ideas, is entirely different from personally seeking control over a country's future." 

:- Aza, I'm still trying to figure out if - the thing he's trying to say is that wanting to change things in the world is bad? Because that would be really stupid but it sort of sounds like what he's saying!:

:I'm getting there! If I don't get that far before the end of class I will show up at his office: "You're an especially powerful mage and you also do this whole Tower thing but do you think the argument applies to people with weaker Gifts?"

Urtho frowns. Considers it for a while. "...Less so, perhaps? And - I suppose I can imagine a person who happens to be born with mage-gift, but whose temperament is much better suited to, say, being mayor of a city, and...it seems a little unfortunate if their mage-gift does not see as much use, but it would not be morally wrong of them to instead focus on what they are passionate about, and not all mages are passionate about the study and teaching of magic. Just, I - think that the hunger for power for its own sake is not a healthy human trait, and - mages can be more tempted toward it than most." 

"I haven't noticed anything that looked like that when I look at people's minds, can you explain more how mages are more tempted?"

Urtho seems to consider this a very self-evident question. "Well, we can already do things that most people cannot, right? This by itself gives us a certain authority, especially since magic is so key to most countries' functioning. Those who are not mages will defer to mages on questions of magic, since they are not the experts and we are. In itself this is perfectly fine, of course, and it is not unhealthy in itself for being respected and listened to, to feel good, but - the problem is that can easily make a person used to deference, expecting it in other areas as well, even ones where they are not and should not be the expert authority. Does that make sense?" 

"Healers are also very important, and people listen to them in their domain of expertise," says Aza. "Do you feel this way about Healers?"

"I would feel much more this way about Healers if there were countries where it was common for Healers to dominate the political leadership! ...I do think it is less a concern, there, because everyone understands Healing-Gift and healing expertise to be limited to the specific area of curing sick and injured people, and one hears of mage-warlords claiming territories in the north, but not of Healing-warlords." 

"In countries where neither mage-warlords nor magic-based inheritance law are common, do you think the danger is that we will notice those things exist abroad and think they're good ideas because they favor us, or is it something else?"

"Hmm. I - think that is a large part of it, but also even here mages tend to be treated as - more special, than those with other Gifts." His lips twitch. "Perhaps with the exception of Mindhealers, who are very special and rare indeed." 

"And you think this special treatment tends to go to people's heads, and they start expecting that they'll be good leaders in general without other reason to think so?"

"Yes, approximately. Not for everyone, of course, but enough." 

"How can someone tell if they are one of those people besides whether they think they have good political ideas?"

"Oh. Hmm. I suppose if they feel that becoming very powerful - being the sort of person who commands armies, who can shape the world and lives of those around them whenever they think it is a good idea - sounds very appealing." 

Ma'ar is not saying anything and also not interrupting Azabel but this is taking a lot of willpower. 

"Are people better at those things if they hate them?"

"- I mean, probably not if they hate them, but...I think it is a bad sign if a King is too fond of wielding power, enough that it would be tempting to do it on a whim rather than only when necessary. I - suppose that probably it is healthiest for leaders to be neutral on the matter?" 

"What makes a use of power necessary?"

"Hmm. If - it is the only way to prevent crimes or harm. Tantara has a Guard to enforce the laws, and sometimes doing that takes, well, force. We would raise an army if there was a war and we needed to protect our citizens. ...And I suppose leaders have a useful role in coordination, asking for taxes is a use of power but it lets Tantara build new bridges and roads and such that serve everyone." 

"And someone has to decide where the bridges go, right? And someone has to mint coins and someone has to make sure we're getting along with the neighbors and someone has to fund schools if they aren't paying for themselves so people will learn to read, and someone has to coordinate weather magic and someone has to evaluate new ideas and see if they're worth public support and someone has to decide how members of the guard are trained... I think that sounds very different from being a warlord, I don't believe those mint coins at all."

Urtho chuckles. "Yes, it is certainly very different! The day to day work of running a country is - well, for one, it is done by hundreds of people, the King does not personally decide which schools get how much funding. And it is tedious and mostly made up of meetings and ledgers and committees debating the merits of different paint colours. The world benefits a great deal from people who are passionate about accounting and I am very glad I am not one of them. I - think that taking satisfaction in a job well done, in the endless essential details of holding a country together, is quite different from - enjoying power, per se." 

"So if a mage thinks being on committees and appointing ministers of education sounds fun that's probably very different from thinking being a warlord sounds fun and the real problem would be if one thought being a king was like being a warlord and tried to become one to make it that way?"

"In - very broad terms, yes. Though I think most who seek power do not call it that to themselves - it sounds like an ugly motive, after all, it sounds much nicer to say you want to - do great things, leave a mark, those sorts of things." 

Ma'ar definitely believes that Azabel is making progress here and he's very impressed and should ask her how she's doing it, later, when it won't distract her - but also he wants to SCREAM. 

:Does he not get that the point of trying to make a country better isn't whether it's fun?: he sends, even though probably Azabel's already noticed that on her own.