" - yes, in the sense that I could've just told them I was a priest of Iomedae here on secret priest business and expecting that to be enough they weren't curious and didn't gossip in any way that endangered me, but no in the sense that I think you mean it. It is not in the same category as - stealing, or killing, or threatening."

Ma'ar's forehead wrinkles again. "But -" He rubs his eyes, trying to find the right words, searching for the right concepts, it feels like he's suddenly seen some entire new space of how thinking can work and he doesn't know his way around it yet or how to find anything. 

"But - telling people things that aren't true is - making you not predictable to them? Even if the doctor wanted to cooperate with you he couldn't, because you were - showing him a pretend you. And he didn't know that. At least if you steal from people it's really obvious and then they know they should get a weapon or guards next time... If you tell people lies then they - then their plans won't work and they won't even know why!" 

"- huh. It is true that people not knowing what I really want makes it harder for them to make plans around me that I don't want them making, that's most of the point. I would feel badly about giving the doctor bad information about the effectiveness of his remedies, but I don't feel badly about telling him you're my son... In Cheliax everyone lies all the time about everything but we don't rob each other, so you can reasonably expect your plans not to fail because someone mugged you in the street but you'd be very very silly, if you expected your plans not to fail because you thought strangers were telling you the truth when they didn't have a reason to."

Ma'ar looks like this concept is kind of breaking his brain! He scrunches up his face and twists his hands together. "I...guess that makes sense. That - somewhere could be that way." He also haaaaates it. "- Do people read other people's minds a lot, to check?" 

"Yes."

Nod. Ma'ar is thinking that he's just found a really good reason to get better at Thoughtsensing so he can read everyone's mind all of the time. 

"I think it's different here?" he says, slowly. "People try to rob you all the time. It'd be very stupid not to expect that. With clan Kiyam it'd be stupid not to have people stay up to guard our cattle, the middle of the night is the best time for raids. But - the other clans wouldn't lie to us about whether they took our cattle, that'd be - just, why." 

"Maybe since you don't really have a state no one is trying very hard for - legitimacy, for persuading outside observers that they're in the right, for demonstrating that they know the rules. In Cheliax before the new king it was dangerous even to be trying to keep track of the truth, let alone to just say it to anyone who asked. Words were for - giving people context on what kind of interaction to expect this to be. Here, I'm a rich lady looking for her nephew, I'm using words to give people the prediction that they'll have the sorts of interactions they'd have with a rich lady looking for her nephew. They ought to expect at least that maybe I'm lying about the circumstances of our estrangement and maybe I'm here without my husband's permission and maybe there's something else afoot. They probably won't predict there's no nephew, because why would someone make a trip halfway around the world if there's no nephew, but -" Shrug. 

That's so weird and twisty. Ma'ar makes faces about it for a while. "That - seems bad. For anyone being able to do things on purpose. If it's not safe to - even be trying to know what's true... Does the new king, the one who you think is like me, want to make it not like that anymore?" 

"Yes he does. It being bad for people being able to do things on purpose was the point, you weren't supposed to do things on purpose about politics or religion or something. But the king who is like you is changing that. Though it's one of those things where it's hard for people to notice it changing."

Nod. "People get used to things. Was it the god of Hell - doing it on purpose, before, making it so it wasn't safe to have plans about politics or religion?" He scowls. "That doesn't sound at all like wanting people to be able to cooperate with you. But I guess neither is burning people in lakes of fire so that's not very surprising." 

"Asmodeus believes that people are not supposed to have free will - our own impulses and desires and wants. Long ago mortals existed for the gods to use, like the difference between the phantom steeds and your cows, where your cows had opinions and the phantom steeds just did what they were told. Asmodeus thinks that was better. He wanted to make people more like that again. It's what the burning them in lakes of fire is for, it helps break down the will to serve yourself instead of Asmodeus."

"- Well," Ma'ar says eventually, after a long horrified silence, "I think people having desires and wants is good and Asmodeus is wrong." 

"Mmmhmm, I bet you do. A lot of things about Cheliax were very bad and I'm glad we have a new king now who is nicer."

Ma'ar shivers a little, hugging his knees to his chest. He doesn't quite understand the tone in Carissa's voice, but, well, there are a lot of things he doesn't understand about her. 

He can't read her mind, even when she tries. She has some sort of magic in the way. Which is smart of her, because she's powerful and important and probably has a lot of secrets, and she comes from a place where people would try to read her mind because everyone was lying all the time. 

"...Do you - lie to me?" he says, tentatively, aware that this is a very silly question because if she does then she can just lie about her answer too. 

" - oh, kiddo. I - hmmmmm.

My world does have - ways for people to tell each other the truth, where it's not expected they might lie, and where it is understood that lying would be totally incompatible with Law, not the sort of thing you might do if you're trying to cooperate with other people. If you swear by your god that you're telling the truth, then that's a situation where people can expect that you mean it, and expect you wouldn't be Lawful anymore if you were lying. I am willing to swear to things if you ask me about them. But we have a bit of a problem, right, in that I could tell you that, and not be telling you the truth about it. I don't know how to solve that. Honestly, it didn't occur to me that you would be assuming I was telling the truth, or I'd have promised you as soon as we met that I wouldn't hit you or keep you from leaving or anything. 

There are a lot of important secrets I'm keeping. Mostly my reason is that I don't understand how the Velgarth gods work and I don't know whether they'd be able to learn anything about what's going on if I told you. Some of my reason is because people could read your mind, and I'll tell you more once you're good at shielding. I don't think I have lied to you about anything. I am very sure I haven't lied to you about anything important, about my goals here and what I want and what I'm trying to do. It is a terrible idea to lie to your allies, even if it's wise with strangers."

"I didn't assume you were telling me the truth," Ma'ar clarifies. He's not sure how to express what he was assuming, or how their conversation just now even gave him any new information. "I - assumed you would do what was clever and sensible for you. And you shouldn't tell me your secrets if it's stupid to do that, obviously. I, just..."

He shrugs helplessly. "I don't think I understand why you want to be my ally, really. Because I'm - small, and not any good at magic, and, I mean, anyone could say they want to fight gods when they grow up. It doesn't mean they're ever going to be strong enough, or that they'll - really actually try, people are bad at really actually trying. So it seems like it would be smarter of you to find someone who's already very good at magic, to be your ally."

Also he's a long way from being willing to believe that she actually wants him to do that and is committed to helping, because he can't see the inside of her head that would make her be that shape of person, but - well, he's also not not believing her about it. Just because...it's hard to name why, but if she'd wanted to tell him a convincing story so he would run away with her, she could have made one that was simpler. 

The gods might hear.

But also the gods might be paying more attention, later - Leareth got away with making his immortality method because he made it before they were paying him much attention -

"The things I know about Gifts and about how there ought to be an Urtho are not from having met other people from your world. They are from having met people from another world that - I think - is this world, thousands of years in the future."

His eyes go wide. "Really? - How did you find that world?" 

"It found mine. A man from that world discovered ours through an accident of some kind. He was a powerful mage, and had an army, and when he heard about Asmodeus he was very angry, so he made local allies and invaded and conquered Cheliax."

"Oh. Is he the one who's the king now?" 

"His local ally is technically in charge right now but the local ally is going to be a god in a month or two and then the man from Velgarth will rule alone."

"He's going to be a god? Wow. Is that - just a thing you can do, in your world? Does it work in this world too? Is he becoming a god so he can fight Asmodeus?" 

"Among other reasons, yes. I don't think you can just become a god in this world, my world's magic is more flexible in some ways. He was a god before and then some things happened and he had to stop and I think he's excited to get back to it." And maybe either delaying it or moving it up, with her missing. 

"Oh." Ma'ar has no idea what sorts of "things" could "happen" that would result in someone having to stop being a god, but - if Carissa wanted to say she would, and she didn't, so she doesn't want to. Maybe it's one of her important secrets. He doesn't press.

He frowns and presses his palms to his forehead and thinks for a while. 

"I'm still confused," he admits, eventually. "But - if the rest is important secrets then I understand if you can't tell me. How do I learn how to shield better?" 

"Unfortunately I'm not quite sure because my magic works differently. Urtho'll be able to teach you." Sigh. "I have been thinking about just - messaging him, and asking him to come pick us up. He might do it, and otherwise it sounds like we'll need to spend several weeks riding for Tantara, and that sounds kind of dangerous, and I don't know for sure that Urtho is in Tantara. I guess messaging him to ask him that is also an option. 

I'm nervous because he is much more powerful than us. But - he's kind. The one in the other timeline gave me a gift, once." She shows the bracelet. "And several weeks riding south pose their own risks."