"I told him I'd take him to Aiwenor. It's a small settlement in the south of Valinor. Tell everyone they could leave now or commit to staying for the next year or so. He probably still has range to reach a couple people in Tirion from there - his mother, whatever staff he has who are there right now - but few enough that you could follow up with them individually."

"Right. It'd be good to have a list of people he has significant osanwë range with, if that's something you can estimate well, I still don't understand how it works. I was thinking we could give him back some of his staff, actually, once I have a chance to talk to them about the situation - I know a lot of them pretty well, I like knowing people. Small settlement seems good. My overall plan here is to - hmm. Roughly to try to watch what he's up to at a distance, guess what the goals are, and hope I can stay ahead of him in blocking any avenues to interfere with the war effort. While leaving anything purely focused on events in Valinor mostly alone unless he's literally torturing or murdering people. We're already trying to secure the war-related aspects as hard as possible, and no I'm not going to tell you how although I really wish we didn't need to have secrets here, it's bad for trust and your people have a lot of trust and that matters, just..." He lifts a shoulder, lets it fall, makes a face. "We can't keep Maitimo in a box with no friends for the rest of the war, even if that'd be safest. We just can't. I recognize that. But it means we need to put up other kinds of walls." 

"That makes sense. I do - not have difficulty imagining how dangerous he is. Our conversation - actually, why don't I share that now, in case it's a hint about what he's aiming at or something -"

Maitimo got him one of the memory necklaces once Fëanáro perfected them. He can bounce it to Vanyel and Stef, word-perfect.

Vanyel is quiet for a while. 

"I don't think any of that is false," he says finally. "Even the thing he would've said if he wanted it to go maximally badly; I think it's incomplete and - I don't know if manipulative is quite the thing, at least it's a particular frame, just like the letter he wrote was. I agree with Maitimo that 'which one is true' isn't the useful question here, just..." It's still hard to describe the thing in words even though he thinks he sees it now. "Hmm. I - think - probably it's useful for me to share highlights of my conversation with Telumë, and explain my failure analysis of why he managed to screw up so badly here? Because I think it was a predictable-in-hindsight mistake that's - actually correlated with him being the right person for a lot of other kinds of decisions, and - the part where I screwed up, and Melody and Jisa screwed up, also understandably but we still did, is in - making sure there were checks against predictable failure modes of Telumë being Telumë, in the particular context of the truly absurd quantity of shit he's been through in the last decade." 

"It seems like a war effort led by him and Fëanáro, with you accustomed to playing the role of - getting people who are convinced Telumë is evil to notice the possibility that he is also right - might have been predicted to have blind spots like the ones it in fact seems to have."

Shrug. "I think I could've done this a lot better if I'd spent the last six months here, or with Fëanáro, and not trapped in Velgarth without Stef and with a horrible head injury, and come back to this kind of already being the plan. But, yes, I think I'm used to being the most Fëanáro-like person in the room and trying to correct people in that direction, and actually I need to do - not the opposite, exactly, but different."

He reaches out to squeeze Stef's hand. "Hmm. I do feel like - all right, so there's a frustrating thing here where this is only going to go well if we can trust each other, and also we have very different cultural backgrounds, and also there are going to be tactical reasons why we have to keep a lot of secrets from each other. Valdemar - tried to navigate something similar, and we got a lot of pieces wrong on that run, but I think we also learned a lot about - trying to really understand each other's thinking, trying to use the fact that different people had different intuitions in order to catch each other's blind spots rather than having stupid fights. Also, I - picture evil Maitimo landing in Valdemar right after Leareth told me about his plan, and even I can see the fracture lines he could've pushed on, and it would only have needed to be a tiny push."

He raises his eyebrows. "It would be so stupid if we ended up at war with you and Nolofinwë over this. So - I don't know, I think we need to try to understand each other's values and reasoning, here? And one thing I learned last time around is that it's really possible you're seeing something right now that I'm missing, and - that it's very easy to think I understand someone else and be wrong. So probably we should try to have that conversation." 

He sighs. 

He looks at his hands. 

"Fëanáro is the King of the Noldor," he says, very wearily. "He's not the best person for the job and we should've changed things a long time ago so that mattered, but we didn't, so he is the King of the Noldor, and has the right to take us to war. If he says that we ought to die to build a god that can win the war in Velgarth, then I will do that, even though it will cost me some things that he does not know about and would not care about and that I have no reason to expect a thousand years or a thousand worlds could set right. 

I think that if we keep running around doing things that a thousand years and a thousand worlds cannot set right then there won't be very much left of the Noldor, pretty soon. I think there is a thing - there - that Fëanáro does not value and does not understand that he is wielding which is why he's not even going to try to wield it. - you're worried about a civil war, I told you that what will happen is that my father will walk away, and you're still worried, so he is planning to just - 

- he doesn't know what he has -

- and if I thought this was the last event in all of history I guess I'd let him make his mistakes and figure that someday, eventually, there'll be something else, not the Noldor but something that mattered the way the Noldor matter. But I don't think this is the last event in all of history, gods, I don't confidently think it's going to be the worst thing in the next thirty years. And there's - there's a way to do this that leaves that trust intact, but Fëanáro doesn't believe in it, and maybe it's not real for him, I don't know. But if so then it should be in someone else's hands. And they wouldn't let him burn it and I don't think they'd be wrong."

"...Your sacred trust," Vanyel says, very softly. "I - see that. You're right. I think it's very real, even though it's - not the sort of thing you can hold in your hand and touch and study, and Fëanáro is the sort of person who has trouble even seeing it much less wielding it usefully." He has to stop for a moment because his throat is threatening to seize up. "I - messed up something related to that, once. I took an action that won us a war in the short run and was also something that I - couldn't undo - and it'd have been fine if I'd weighed that cost properly, but I hadn't, and - that was a much bigger mistake than the specific thing I did, actually. I was lucky in that case because it was a much smaller piece of the sacred trust that I burned, and I think it still was worth it and the other Heralds even agreed, but..."

He twists his fingers around a fistful of his tunic. "You're right. If we're going to try to reason things out based on actions and their consequences, here, rather than clear bright lines, then we need to be seeing all the consequences, seeing it clearly, and Fëanáro doesn't, and so if he makes a decision unilaterally then it's very likely to be wrong, and if it's worth it after all it'll be by luck." 

"...I've been having the thought," Stef says, carefully, "that - this is a reason why it might be better to use humans. Even though we don't come back the same way - gods, maybe we can fix that, actually, if we think to try - but, even if we couldn't. The Noldor have something here that Velgarth doesn't, really." 

"Okay I think actually if we're going to have this conversation we should back up several steps, I don't want to send you - careening wildly around at different large civilian populations you can massacre without anyone specifically at the table to say 'no, wait, there's something sacred there too' - 

- why does Leareth believe that he needs to kill millions of people to accomplish this. What else has he tried."

"You should maybe ask him if you want definitely the complete list of things he's tried, we ended up not talking about this in as much depth as we would have because - well, we thought we'd have time. He was so relieved that there being other worlds meant he could afford to spend another thousand years looking for something better. These are the ones I'm aware of, though, and why he thought they were intractable for this or had even worse side effects or were too open to the existing gods directly interfering..." 

He goes through a list. Some of the items are superweapon-adjacent and risk causing a second Cataclysm. Some of them, like Heartstones, were completely closed off before and are a possibility again now, but only if they can get the Star-Eyed Goddess fully on board, which is risky to attempt though Vanyel is game to do it anyway. Some require a better solution to storing mage-power than Leareth had. Again, some would be possibilities now given Arda's magic - except for the part where it would require decades if not centuries of research to figure out how to combine things that way, and they thought they would have that, and found out very, very recently that the deadline is a lot shorter. 

"...We have options," he finishes. "Something to do with the Silmarils, maybe. Probably I should, actually, just give myself a near-death experience with some powerful Healers on hand and have a proper negotiation with the Shadow-Lover. I think we have to try, and I was planning to, I know Telumë was very hopeful about the Star-Eyed Goddess and the Heartstones part, but - it's not guaranteed that any of the other options will be up and available at the time we need them." Sigh. "Also it would really be better if Maitimo didn't find out too much about that. Not sure how much he already knows or can infer." 

"How soon do we need them?"

"...I possibly shouldn't tell you the exact timeline. I do know that Telumë would prefer to wait as long as possible, and thinks Sauron isn't ready to move right now, and - that could be years, especially if we're clever about delaying him, that's another reason I should have some negotiations with gods and get Their help even though it's my least favourite thing in the world. But also we have reason to believe that Sauron might decide to just go for it and - oh. Gods. Do you actually know the specific thing we learned about what Sauron was planning a couple of weeks ago?" 

" - no. Through formal channels we've heard nothing and Stef just said that we'd learned a lot of important stuff from Maitimo - that it was worth -" He glances at the door with a complicated expression.

"Maitimo was pretty sure that he has a plan to retrieve Melkor from the Void," Vanyel says flatly. "By murdering half a million people for blood-power. We think he's not ready and we're taking precautions against the avenues Maitimo thought were likely if he decided to move faster - thought he might flatten some cities in Rethwellan, claim it was us so it didn't wreck his alliance with Vkandis immediately. Or he might just burn the alliance entirely, it's clearly not maintainable long term, they want really different outcomes. But - if we get evidence he's moving on that, and Maitimo thought it was possible he'd decide to move really fast when he did... Well, his power requirement is a lot easier to meet, he has no ethical qualms about murdering an entire country to meet it, and if Melkor turns up in Velgarth then I think we've lost."

" - yeah. All right. 

If we got word he was moving on it tomorrow, what would be the plan."

"Well, on my side, I would kill myself on purpose right now and have a nice long chat with the Shadow-Lover," Vanyel says flatly. "Not even just to get that god on board - it gives me space and time to think where I'm always clearheaded, gods, I wish I could take other people there and we could do all the planning that way. Hopefully I'd find out that the Shadow-Lover's god has some coincidences stored up to make Sauron's attempts to destroy cities conveniently go wrong. Then I'd go yell at a Heartstone until the Star-Eyed agreed to talk to me and I'd give her the Shadow-Lover's terms and ask if we could please use all of her Heartstones. Meanwhile Telumë and Fëanáro's math people would make a call on whether they're sure enough of getting an aligned god to fire the plan off now. And we'd - pull the rest together somehow, it would be awful, it would burn a lot of sacred trusts that we can't recoup in a thousand years and a thousand worlds. But I think 'Melkor gets loose in Velgarth and into the rest of the multiverse from there' would cost the future even more. Sauron already knows how to travel between worlds." 

He looks down at his hands. "I really, really hope that doesn't happen. I think it'd destroy me as a person - I think it'd destroy all of us. But...I guess I already know what kind of decision I make, in that kind of bind. Also, um, it's just occurred to me that possibly if we're going to talk about all of this including specifics, we should find out if it's possible for you to not remember it after? Or consider some kind of precaution in that general direction, I don't even know what, I didn't expect to end up in a position where we desperately need your advice and also evil Maitimo desperately needs your emotional support and so I don't have a policy here." 

"I don't think I can go spend time with Maitimo right now. I am very very upset about that and I don't know if I will forgive Telumë for - but it sounds like you don't have enough people who are apprised of all this and also competent to fill in some of the holes that he very evidently left and that matters more than he does. We can send most of his staff and some of his brothers."

"I don't think you're wrong."

"I'm so, so sorry." Vanyel closes his eyes. "I - want to personally murder all of the gods right now, for - all of this. I mean, Sauron knew, right? How much would break if he took out one particular piece. That's why he - timed in the way he did. I should've...guessed...I should've not let him go to Velgarth when we knew it might not be safe...but actually I don't think that's a precaution I could reasonably have known to take, so. I'm so sorry and I'm really, really upset about this on your and Maitimo's behalf. And also I don't think you're wrong." 

"Have we told the Valar about all this. I don't know how inclined they'd be to intervene in another world but this is - a lot of talk about how desperately we need a god on our side and we have some."

"We talked about telling them and - I at least would be on board with it if we got word things were very urgent. I'm - pretty scared that they don't care about the same things we do and will decide to actively try to sabotage plans they disapprove of. But also I'm not from your world and I think I don't understand the Valar that well. If you think you understand them better we should talk about what they're likely to do. I'm... On reflection I'm now kind of worried that we have a giant blind spot here, which is shaped like 'Fëanáro personally hates the Valar' and 'Telumë has two thousand years worth of trauma about gods in general - gods he didn't personally design and build, anyway - because the Velgarth ones kept doing things like setting him on fire for talking to them', and that was before Melkor got him. And I'm actually a very bad person to not have that blind spot because of the part where the Velgarth gods were responsible for my lifebonded dying and the fact that I was miserable for eighteen years about it." 

"I think the Valar are reasonably likely to intervene in a plan to commit mass slaughters in Arda against the will of the inhabitants. Which is another consideration against that plan, that it forecloses any possibility of assistance from the powers in this world. I think they'd be reasonably likely to be willing to, say, block Sauron and potentially Melkor from returning to this world. Which at least - limits how badly we lose if we lose, though I realize the scale of the harm is still pretty much unbounded. I don't know if they'd be willing to go personally to Velgarth to take Sauron into custody but there's a chance, I'd expect. 

And they could petition Eru for more aid than that and - I have no idea what to expect if they do that but presumably Eru could just make oaths have to be voluntary or something."

"...If you think there's any chance they would go to Velgarth for Sauron, or that Eru would offer help when petitioned, then...I feel a lot more strongly that we ought to ask. I think Telumë doesn't trust their competence very far, due to having missed the Melkor thing, but - I suspect that was more complicated, actually. Anyway."

He rolls and unrolls the edge of his sleeve repeatedly. "It's also occurring to me that we may not be making optimal use of the gods here. If I'm considering asking them to delay Sauron or to help us power a new god, I should probably ask for some other things too. Velgarth gods are very hard for mortals to talk to, they see the world totally differently, there's a huge gulf to cross.  I know part of what Telumë wants with his is a god that's shaped as much toward communication and cooperation with humans as it can be and still be a Velgarth god at all, and then able to communicate with the other gods better than we can. But - maybe it's possible to just go ask the current gods what's stopping them from fighting Vkandis and Sauron - I expect part of it is that Sauron is an alien and they don't understand his magic or have ways to counter it - and then offer to help. I'm really scared because the simplest way to talk to a god here involves me killing myself on purpose and the next simplest way almost made me lose my mind the last time. But obviously those are both far smaller costs than murdering a lot of people and I should just do it." 

"They're not very small costs, we need you very badly. But - yeah, that sounds worth it to me.

I told Maitimo I wouldn't leave him alone very long. Is there someone we can send in -"