"You are saying that this is what happened at the end of the previous war? And then - claiming that the Valar chose not to slaughter the orcs, I suppose." 

"Yes. They'd kill them wherever they saw them, but they abandoned the whole continent rather than do what the Elves wanted, and get rid of them all so the Elves could live there in peace. They took the Elves to Valinor instead. We hadn't expected that. And then they paroled Melkor. And then when that didn't do anything, the Noldor started gearing up to have a war anyway. The universe really wants to get back to the war, it's its stable state."

Leareth is ready to point out that Melkor was involved in inciting the civil war, he saw it with his own mage-senses, but...he doesn't have proof that it's Melkor, does he? At that point he had only met Aulë, and his past-scrying spell isn't high resolution.

It could have been any Vala. 

"A god was involved in inciting the Elves' war," he says, levelly. "The strong prior is that it was Melkor, since the other Valar so obviously prefer everything to be calm and peaceful and controlled even if it means abandoning a continent. Do you actually have sufficiently strong evidence to counteract that." 

He looks thrown off. "- it was absolutely Melkor with the spider, if that's what you mean. She is from the Void. You led us to the spider, and then we thought we might have a solution, if only the war didn't kick off too quickly. We were trying to stop the Noldor from leaving Valinor."

Leareth looks coolly at him. "The spider is not from the Void. I would recognize magic of my own world. I am not sure what bluff you are trying to improvise here but I am unconvinced." He wasn't talking about the spider, but he's not going to enlighten the Maia on that part either. 

"Yes. They'd kill them wherever they saw them, but they abandoned the whole continent rather than do what the Elves wanted, and get rid of them all so the Elves could live there in peace. They took the Elves to Valinor instead. We hadn't expected that. And then they paroled Melkor. And then when that didn't do anything, the Noldor started gearing up to have a war anyway. The universe really wants to get back to the war, it's its stable state."
 

–Leareth blinks, momentarily distracted by a group of orcs rushing past. Focus. 

"A god was involved in inciting the Elves' war," he says, levelly. "My prior is that it was Melkor. It would take something very conclusive to convince me otherwise." 

"- was a god involved in inciting the Elves' war? Directly? Melkor had left Valinor by then. He left when you arrived. We hadn't known there were other worlds, and as soon as we found out, we left to figure out - they change everything, right -"

"You had sufficiently good intelligence on all of our other movements that I am dubious you are claiming not to know why I believe this."

It...does fit, that Melkor would have left to figure out the possibilities that other worlds held. It's what someone who was actually trying would do. 

Though, 'actually trying' does not in fact mean 'actually trying to help the lights in the world'. 

"Not much gets past us in Endorë. - correspondingly not much gets past the Valar, in Valinor. Their ignoring all of it until they kicked Fëanor out was not unfortunate bad timing."

Leareth doesn't say anything else. He keeps walking. He thinks. 

...There are a lot of things he should have checked for himself, before. But he didn't. He's here, now, Melkor captured him personally, and - maybe it's true, their awful story, but maybe it isn't, and he wouldn't know. He's under their power now. 

If it is true, then he's yet again been made a pawn in a god's scheme – bringing Vanyel just in time for him to die and take out half a continent with him.

(Urtho...) 

But he's not sure that there's any way of verifying their story that he would trust, at this point. Which means that if he lets himself be drawn into some scheme, it's as likely as not to be a trick that only causes harm.

It hurts, to give up. To admit he's been backed into a corner. It hurts less than he would have expected. Knowing that Vanyel is dead, and thanks to his own mistake, is worse. 

But there are other worlds. He can't be the only person in a whole multiverse who's actually trying. And he's not about to be responsible for unleashing an evil god on it. Maybe Melkor isn't evil but that's not a gamble he can take. Maybe all of it is a lie and Vanyel is alive and they'll still be able to win. Either way, he's pretty sure he knows what option here is best in expectation for his goals. 

Maybe his immortality path is blocked and maybe it isn't. No way to confirm yes or no that won't give everything away.

He doesn't want to die. There's a screaming pit of no. But it wouldn't really be him who survived, if he were to gamble wrong and end up on a path that makes the world worse rather than better. Not worth it. 

"Maybe," he says, calm, unruffled. "Maybe not." I am not going to help you, but he is absolutely not going to give them any more leverage by saying why.

I am sorry, Vanyel. Words he won't ever have the chance to say, any more than he said them to Urtho. 

It's not the first time Leareth has called down a Final Strike. He's probably the only person ever who is experienced at it - some quiet part of him is expecting it not to work, but he reaches for it anyway...

He sighs. "Ah, well. You are, as you probably guessed; in Angband; you can go, if you'd like, and I think your magic should return to normal once you're well clear of it."

Leareth doubts that. They're not going to let him go so easily. But he doesn't, in fact, want to give the Maia any more opportunities to be supernaturally convincing at him. That's a losing game to play with gods. 

"If you say so," he says, and turns his back and starts walking. 

It's honestly a weird omission, that Gates to Valinor still work. The Valar knew about them; presumably they know enough they could block them if they wished? So I think they're - being helpful. In their own very limited fashion.

:Huh. That is weird: Vanyel rubs his eyes. :I don't know how to think about how much they're on our side, but...it definitely seems like they're more on our side than Melkor is. I can't say I'd be comfortable asking them for further help. But we're kind of short on options: 

The healing songs do help; at the very least, it no longer hurts him to use his Gifts, which means he can make use of time to practice. 

:I think I can Gate to Valinor at some point: he admits. :Soon, even. I'm just not sure if I can figure out whatever Leareth did to get to Velgarth from here. That's a lot more complicated than a normal Gate and I - can't really do complicated at this point: 

Well. Maybe Leareth will grow up and remember it on his end and then come fetch us, if we never figure it out. 

:...You mean if he's dead: Vanyel says flatly. :What if he isn't. What if Melkor took him alive and knows killing him would just send him back to Velgarth. Or were you thinking if we end up having to kill him ourselves to take Melkor down:

If Melkor took him alive then I still do not think we are very likely to get him back alive, though of course we can try if we have any kind of halfway viable plan.

It hurts to think about. :I know. Though, at this point the only plan that feels good to me and will take fifty years involves getting back to Velgarth so I can access Urtho's Tower. I...guess it's a question of which we can do faster. Figuring out how to weaponize the Silmarils or access Velgarth: 

Vanyel looks down. :I'm sorry. You were probably hoping for someone better than me: 

- not at all, no. I keep being astonished at how neither you nor Leareth - wants anything, for risking your lives to save another world.

:I don't think he really thought he was risking his life, given, well... And I've been risking my life for my kingdom for the last seventeen years. It's not really any different doing it for another world's people, they're all...people: He smiles crookedly. :Lights in the world. That's what Leareth used to say. Gods, I remember once in the last war I fought, near the end - I was so tired. And we spoke in the dream and he said–:

Vanyel's mindvoice shifts to a rote sort of tone, quoting words that he's long-since memorized. 

:He said 'I look at the stars, and I remember that there are so many lights in the world, who are worth saving, and we cannot save all of them – from the very beginning, it was too late to save all of them – but we can still save some. It is never too late for that.': 

Vanyel shakes his head. :So this is an even worse situation than I was in then, but...I'm not going to give up. And it's not like I can go back right now anyway. Might as well fight for the people I can: 

Well, we appreciate it. 

If the Gate to Valinor fails will it fail gracefully or might it hurt you somehow -

:If I can't cast it right or if the Valar interfere? I...don't think either failure would cause permanent harm. Might give me backlash and then I'd need a day or two of rest. I don't mind risking that: 

All right. Then - just let us know when you're ready. While we're there we could ask them if they have any guesses how to find Velgarth, too, even.

:I will. Um, and I can manage basic shielding again – let me know if it'd help for me to make shields. I can't do artifacts as sophisticated as Leareth can, but at least they'd be a different style. Though who knows if it'd do any good: Melkor got in right through all the shields Leareth had laid over months.