"I would never hurt her. You can worry, if you'd like, about what will happen to the rest of the universe if anyone does hurt her."

"She wouldn't want anything to happen to the rest of the universe. She'd want you to keep all the other people safe and get her back."

"Yes."

"But then people might think it's okay to hurt you because nothing bad will happen to them if they do."

"Why would people want to hurt me?"

"Some people are very horrible. They might think you would stop them from being horrible if they did not hurt you first."

"Why do they want to be horrible?"

"It gets them money, or power, or fame, or sex, or impresses other people or is easier than being good or they just think it's fun."

"Those sound like things they can get without having to hurt anybody. Unless they are picky about kinds of fun. I'm not sure about that."

"Well, usually it is easier to get power and money unethically than ethically. Because other people are trying very hard to do it, too, and if you're doing the same things as them and aren't particularly remarkable as a person then you won't do much better than them."

"Hmmmmm.

I don't know how to solve this problem but it seems logically impossible to solve it by being horrible."

"Logically impossible? Why's that?"

"The problem is people being horrible! If anyone is horrible it is not solved."

"It's a very very very big universe and we will not manage to make it one where no one is ever horrible."

"I'm going to not be horrible anyway."

"I know."

"You should also not be horrible."

"It is too late for that but I can avoid being more horrible."

"Good!"

"She said she can, not that she will."

"It's still good because to do it she has to be able to."

" - I guess that's true."

"I wasn't sure she'd know how!"

"She's so perfect," Anaander says happily to the room at large.

"I'm actually sort of confused about why you like her though I acknowledge our general appeal!"