Next Post »
+ Show First Post
Total: 193
Posts Per Page:
Permalink

Oh, that wasn't confusing or surprising to him at all, but he'll explain it to the assembled Evil nobles, since explaining Iomedaenism to them is his job. "Most people do not make a distinction between being chosen by a god and being a formal member in good standing of their church. Asmodeans, of course, consider their god by having selected a priest to have designated that priest part of His church, and he became automatically responsible to the Asmodean hierarchy. Many other churches don't even have a hierarchy such that there could be such a thing as membership separate from 'membership in the set of people chosen by the god'." With a nod to the archduke, "Aroden's Church in Imperial Taldor, if I remember my history correctly, considered its priests within the Empire to be automatically a part of the church hierarchy and subject to its disciplinary measures, though its priests outside the Empire and its paladins had to choose and join an order. 

Iomedae wrote that that latter approach struck her as more Lawful, and as offering a god more freedom to select a priest without thereby altering their course towards the one their hierarchy would order. Almost always She chooses priests already sworn to the Church, but where She's done otherwise they have the right of any person to choose whether to join. 

The standard that the Church uses internally is of course not the one that Archmage Cotonnet used to determine delegate eligibility, nor do I imagine there's any particular hope of clarifying it to the general populace."

Permalink

"If the church had ten Chelish Select to send to the convention I am sure they would have, but instead there are only two Chelish Select to be found and neither has yet joined the church."

Permalink

So she just showed up with Iomedae's holy symbol and they let her in. Did anyone check that she was even a real cleric of Iomedae?—for that matter, she doesn't seem Wise enough to be a cleric at all. "I suppose we can only trust in the wisdom of the Goddess in choosing her, then."

Permalink

"Having read the speech, I think the Goddess did a spectacular job of choosing someone who could free Pezzack from infernal rule." 

 

Permalink

"Certainly." The part that they both aren't saying is obvious.

Permalink

"Is her membership and - chain of command situation - something that the church can encourage her to resolve by sending her someone to read her up on the matter...?"

Permalink

"I doubt that the convention would do better with no voices chosen by Iomedae at all, or by throwing out every cleric who cannot speak for an organized church. But given her... zeal, sending someone to advise her does seem like a valuable use of time. Church member or no, I cannot imagine she holds no respect at all for others chosen by her goddess."

Permalink

"That was one of the points I made in my letter to Vigil this morning, after a frustrating attempt to get the priests at the temple in Westcrown to address that and some other issues. Of course, I haven't yet received a response."

Permalink

"If she's open to it and you are, Archduke, one of us can join her to advise for the rest of the convention. It would be surprising to me if the Goddess chose someone who did not see it as important that to the extent she is parsed as representing the attitudes of the Church she actually does so."

 

Permalink

"I was just thinking to suggest the same. I gather everyone at the temple in Westcrown is understandably very busy right now, and while obviously your counsel here is very important - I suspect our Menadorian friends can make do with one confessor between them, at least while they are all sleeping under the same roof, more easily than Valia Wain can make do with none."

Permalink

"Certainly. As much as I appreciate your advice to us, we will have little chance to put it into practice here if Select Wain tears the convention apart."

Permalink

"I also requested a confessor for myself but the temple seemed unable to provide one."

Message to Cansellarion: Also, I'd like one who knows about Alfirin, if you can spare someone.

Permalink

Diplomacy means never being infuriated by nobles who seem to believe that they personally merit much of the Church's resources on the face of Golarion in a time of dire scarcity. "I stopped by the temple in Westcrown when we arrived, to introduce myself. They have one Select, one of Ser Cansellarion's Glorious Reclamation officers and two lay priests for the whole city."

 

Permalink

"It will be a difficult next few years but I am optimistic that in the long term it'll serve us well to get accustomed to operating with fewer divine resources and more of a lay priesthood."

Permalink

"I understand Iomedae's church is spread very thin, these days. Last year I asked for four Select for Menador, and was given one, who remains in Kantaria. It was disappointing at the time, but men cannot be pulled out of the air. It's no doubt very painful to send them to Westcrown, when Mendev is still full of demons. I hope that when Cheliax's churches and armies are less in shambles, we will have the manpower to relieve them of some of their more martial duties."

Permalink

"I think when Cheliax has recovered from the war's devastation and is able to again take on much of the Worldwound defense, as she has long nobly done, there will be a great many priests freed from their duties on the front. I suppose it might be in the purview of the convention to propose this, actually."

 

Permalink

"I don't really understand the concept of a lay priesthood. What's to keep them honest?"

Permalink

Alex nods, briefly, to Alfonso. "Supervision by select priests. The ability of those around them to appeal to their superiors if it seems that they are acting corruptly. But foremost their own sense of honor and integrity. Marit and Arn here weren't Selected by Iomedae, but that's not due to any personal failing. We should not imagine them any less trustworthy than they would be if She did choose them, merely because they happened to finish their studies and take their vows in the year 4713. We can give the lay priesthood the same training we give to people now who hope to be chosen, foster the same culture of honor and beneficence and duty... More mortal supervision will be required, most likely, but that seems for the best. If we can save the Goddess the work of keeping a close eye on every priest, Heaven can intervene more in ways that we're less equipped to handle ourselves."

He smiles, slightly. Alex does not usually collect souvenirs from battles he's won, but back in his new home in Lladó he has a glass vial containing a single scorched fly.

Permalink

"It seems to me that empowered priests aren't even what Cheliax most needs from Iomedae's Church right now," he says. "The priests of Erastil and Pharasma can heal and make water just as well as a priest of Iomedae, but Iomedae holds a special place in the hearts of the Chelish people that they can't just as well fill. But of course they barely know anything true about her, and many of them seem confused about Good in general."

Permalink

"They have not had much exposure. But on that front, I do wonder if sending more of our men to serve at Lastwall's forts wouldn't be a better education than begging more of Lastwall's men to come here. Unfortunately, I hear that bandit problems in the south are especially dire this year."

Permalink

"Perhaps we could arrange some kind of an exchange."

Permalink

"I've been leaning on Abadarans, personally, though I didn't bring any with me on this particular excursion, I wonder if they have anything suited for an exchange program - they do have a country."

Permalink

"An exchange was done, on a relatively small scale. A bit under thirty of Lastwall for three hundred from Kantaria, though the initial offer was made in expectation of receiving more from Lastwall. I'm not sure how many more we can afford at such a steep exchange rate, but perhaps Lastwall and the wound can spare more now that they know we are as good as our word."

Permalink

"I'll go! I have no doubt I'm not allowed to fight bandits in Sirmium, so it's no loss to anyone else. I'd much rather turn my bow on demons than let it sit idle."

Permalink

"Fighting at the Worldwound does everyone some good, and Crusader's Fort is one of the few Iomedaen institutions that is set up both for catechesis and for making good use of people while they learn. And I think they near-entirely stopped getting foreign volunteers when the Wound closed."

Total: 193
Posts Per Page: