"Everybody here?" Soler starts counting heads.
"So - lovely to have a Barrowood representative here, thanks for joining us. I think the President looked a trifle overwhelmed today and I mean to go to him with our petition from yesterday, tomorrow. Even if he still looks overwhelmed because at that point I don't see that waiting will necessarily help. The Barrowood is concerned about dryad trees? They're useful for magic somehow and people're going in and killing dryads for their wood?"
"Yes. They're usually situated deep within the woods, and getting in a position to kill them is a large scale, systemic endeavor. I think those should stop, and your country should use the manpower for other, more sensible things. Like keeping things from wandering out of the woods, instead of pissing off everything inside them."
"Magical item creation, mostly. So, goods for adventurers and the other rich and powerful. I haven't heard of them being turned into paper," and she sounds disgusted by the prospect of this, "and think it would be wasteful, but it would not surprise me. It wouldn't be in every spellbook for every wizard, though, the practice has only taken place in the last century. There wouldn't be enough dryad wood for that even if you decided to lose all sense and cut the entire Barrowood down."
Feather thinks that anyone who wants to cut down even a little of the Barrowood, and who spends a lot of effort killing dryads for their trees, would in fact cut down the entire Barrowood if they only could. She's not sure whether pointing out that this means Cheliax can't in fact cut down the whole Barrowood would help.
"If I remember rightly, which I may not, they're used primarily for a class of common one-use items called tree feather tokens which create a full-grown tree instantly. They're also used for the base wood of some staves before spellsilver is applied. Neither is strategically critical, to my knowledge."
"How about, the committee condemns the Evils wrought under Asmodean rule against our friends and neighbors, and recommends to Her Majesty that the law prohibit the harvest for sale of dryad trees, or conspiracy for the same, on pain of death, and we recommend that those organizations charged with tracking down cults and Asmodean remnants be charged also with investigating whether these incursions have ceased, and bringing them to an end if they haven't."
"... Mm. Not enough to be worth investing in, I don't think. What's left of dryads after they're felled returns to the First World. With a mission to reunite a dryad with her hewn bits of self something could be gained, but." She shrugs. "There are many dryads, many more magical items, and who would track down each and every bit of wood and return it to its maker? Much less in the First World. A pretty thought, but impractical."
What is it about Voshrelka that makes Eulàlia not attack her? It can't be anything she said, Eulàlia attacked Feather before she had said anything in the committee yesterday!
Voshrelka wants them to give up more than Feather did, because they're not getting dryads from Ravounel Forest. She offers them less than Feather did, because Feather started by offering plant growths and then kept going. And all she got in return was insults and threats.
Voshrelka said approximately 'don't bother understanding them, just offer plant growth and grovel'. Feather didn't even see her grovel.
(Seguer is near the Barrowood. Eulàlia hates forests as much as any patriotic Chelish person but if your nearby druids have a specific demand and do a plant growth as a show of good faith you make whatever it is they want happen. Especially since as far as she knows there is zero dryad-harvesting industry in Seguer!)
"I came here under a pledge of safe conduct from your Queen, delivered to the Forest personally by the archmage Naima Cotonnet. Without it I, too, would have feared to come here." Feather hopes this comes across as conciliatory, since she is acknowledging their great power? She doesn't know what 'groveling' would look like in this scenario, and Voshrelka sure isn't leading by example. Luckily, this is an objection her instructions had actually prepared her for!
"As part of that understanding, we of course guarantee safe passage to any return diplomats from Cheliax who come to the Foreat to negotiate. However, if you do not trust us, we are willing to continue negotiations on neutral ground, as long as the Queen and the archmages guarantee the safety and in case of need resurrection of any who attend from either side, just as they have for this convention. We only want the meeting place to be close enough to the Forest for quick travel and passing of messages."
Feather has trouble thinking of something as a "concession" if it doesn't cost het much and she has already decided to give it away! She (or rather, the Forest) is agreeing for pragmatic reasons, because they want the talks to actually happen. She's not asking for things in return for making the talks happen at all, because if the other side doesn't also want them to happen and acts the same way, then they'll obviously just... not happen?
"Where do you get most of your lumber from? I know you don't get much out of Ravounel Forest, at least. Is the amount you're getting from the forests more like one part in twenty, so you could stop if you could get just a bit more from - other places? Or is it a lot more than that? And what would it take for you to get more from - trees outside the big forests, I assume?"
Tomàs weighs responding and decides that stating the facts won't make things enormously worse.
"Yes, it differs by purpose. For firewood, the small, thin woods between villages is normal. For ship's masts or large wooden buildings, growing trees tall enough and strong enough takes a century or more, and if it is done on purpose, there is a tendency for those groves to attract the usual beasts of the forest and become as dangerous as the old forests by the time the trees are ready. I do not recall whether dryads spontaneously appear when this is tried, but I believe some fey do so I would not be surprised. Sizes of log in between have mixed sources."
"The way things had been done when Barrowood and Cheliax were on good terms was that we druids kept the fey and other dangers of the old forests away from the edge, so that the populace could fell trees of sufficient size for their purposes. Which they would then replant for their children's children in the next century. But that's not really possible to achieve if the proverbial curtain is constantly closing in around us, for a number of reasons."
"That sounds - encouraging! I was thinking firewood was the main problem, because Delegate Soler talked to me about it and because - you all need to burn wood all winter, but you only need to build new houses or ships sometimes."
"If people who don't live next to one of the big forests have enough firewood, and replant enough - or just do it slowly enough - that they don't run out of trees over the centuries, then I hope there's a way for the people who do live close to the big forests to get all their firewood from outside them as well. And then if you only need big trees for building, but not as many of them, that's at least a - smaller problem to solve."
"Delegate Voshrelka is right that - it will probably take a long time to rebuild enough trust to let you log inside the forest, on its edges, and trust you to replant and tend the young trees and not make the forest shrink over the next century." And Ravounel Forest in particular isn't likely to ever agree to it, for reasons. "But if the problem is only wood for building, then - I don't have a solution yet but I hope wiser, more experienced druids might figure out how you can grow big trees more quickly, and make sure no dryads or anyone else settles in them," because if that's a risk with the trees they're already planting now then they should definitely make sure it stops happening, "and help you plant them in a way that dangerous creatures won't want to live there. I think that's the kind of problem that's worth working on."
"Plant Growth helps cut the necessary time for trees to reach full maturity - we'd once had a habit of druids using it inside the forest itself for this reason, and some might still perform those circuits - but it only cuts the time of growth by, mm. Thirty years or so? Out of a century. Which is not nothing, but I suspect your country," she knows not to just say 'you,' even though it's very tempting, "is going to be unwilling to ask me to augment growing trees. Usually it's all focus on crops. Mm... confiscate all of the tree feather tokens Delegate Tomàs mentioned, see if those can be used instead of the Barrowood trees? I doubt it would entirely solve the problem, but staunching the bleeding is better than not."
It is absolutely more groveling, yep. She expects humans are more likely to want to take from each other to benefit themselves than do something like 'return things stolen from the forest, to the forest.' She has some experience setting them against each other in this fashion.
"The logistics would be a nightmare but the newest northern province - Sarkoris - is going to be full of old growth trees and no druids or dryads or anything because the demons ate them. I'm not sure if that helps because I'm not sure you can Teleport a tree." And it'd still require the logging parties to be just as armed but there aren't any demons here offering Plant Growth on behalf of demonkind.
If Tree Tokens can instantly create a kind of tree the Chelish humans would otherwise have to fight the druids for, then murdering dryads for fancy woods to export instead of making nice enough that the dryads would let them have plenty of deadwood is obviously stupid. Which doesn't mean Liushna is surprised or skeptical; it's not news that the Asmodean regime was stupid.
"Are the trees in the Wound... what used to be the Wound... really all right?" Feather wonders. "I heard all the life there was twisted with demonic taint and - I assumed that includes plants, especially long-lived ones like trees. I don't know if it's a problem if you're going to log them all anyway, but I'd be careful."
"It is rather too far away to be transported by only river - Delegate de Seguer is correct that it would be a logistical nightmare. I also agree with Delegate Feather's assessment of the risks of demonic magic in the wood, but it's not my risk to take. I've no personal issue with it." Nor most other pretty dreams that will never come true, really.
"There's a river if you want to send them to the archduchy of Molthune but that's not really where we're building ships right now. But we've been running Teleport routes to the Wound for seventy years, we can keep them up bringing things back the other way if the investment's finally paid off."
"It is an option, but we have many fewer Teleport wizards at the moment, so unless we can prevail on the archmages for one of their portals, it is unlikely to be a first resort. And likely expensive enough that lawless merchants would try to log illicitly. Negotiated agreement would be preferable."
Alas, someone on this committee that is in favor of humanity flourishing isn't a dumbass. Pity, watching Cheliax attempt to actually enact this extremely terrible idea would have been entertaining.
"Mm. Then designated logging areas, which are clearly marked and then replanted? If you simply must fell old trees from the Barrowood. Though, I do want to be clear that currently the Barrowood is not by any stretch of the imagination safe, and you are better off finding logs elsewhere until it's back in order again."
A few 'lawless merchants' trying to log the Forests would still be a lot better than all of Cheliax doing it! But there will be separate negotiations later, and Feather thinks that anything said right now is more likely to derail them than to help them, so she just nods.
"By designated logging areas, you mean that if they log too much and don't replant enough and run out of trees in those areas, they still can't log outside them? If they can make that work on the borders of the Barrowood then I don't really understand why they can't do the same thing somewhere else, where it's safer."
"I believe currently most of the large-timber logging is in the Anferita Wood just outside Corentyn's shipyards, and the intrusion into the Barrowwood. To replace the Barrowwood with an official managed area, the safest place would the north-west edge of the Whisperwood, which thanks to our efforts is largely cut off from the portal to Hell and comparatively thin of uncontrolled beasts. This is faint praise indeed, even leaving aside the objections Delegate Tiumfane or his compatriots are likely to have."
Possibly objecting now, possibly after the portal is closed and they no longer have selfish incentives to cooperate. She doesn't need to say that. She does write herself a note to check on the druid status of Anferita; the navy manages - managed - the monsters themselves, so the Pike hasn't been requested there and doesn't have enough records that she knows about them.
"I expect with the current situation, your country is likely to prefer crops to logs, anyway," shrugs Voshrelka. "You'll note my demand on this front is not 'stop entirely,' it's 'be predictable,' and 'replant.' I want consistency and a care towards long term thinking, not total abstinence."
Yes, you somehow have a better understanding of basic Law than all the non-Chaotic people in this room who are not Hellknights. Which Anna would trust much more if you didn't read as strongly Chaotic.
...Okay, that's unfair to the Sower. He's not sophisticated but he's fine.
It's called being really old. Just because she doesn't practice being Lawful doesn't mean she doesn't understand it. Also, you try to be Lawful when you're resisting a Lawful Evil government! They're the ones who broke all bonds of trust and then made some very stupid laws, so she considers it perfectly fair to not follow a single one of them. Laws are for governments, not people.
"I think 'designated logging areas, local lords responsible for punishing any of their people who log outside those areas and survive long enough to be brought to justice' is a viable agreement. They're largely going to be bandits, not peasants." In fact in a sense if you think about it, if they're committing crimes and wandering into prohibited areas they're automatically bandits. Everyone's in favor of hanging bandits.
"Yes. Hold them responsible for infractions in their territory, probably by, mm, fine? Of some kind?" She knows what fines are, but she is completely incapable of coming up with an appropriate sum of money in the currently highly complicated economy. "And hold only the general populace responsible if they can verify under truth telling that they knew the policy and reneged. If they survive the experience. But my experience of the common people is that they're smarter than their leadership when it comes to the forest."
Feather thought they were talking about logging old trees for ships, but now they're back to all the - common people - logging, presumably any trees they can get. If they log the younger trees, they won't grow up to be the old trees that they want for shipbuilding. And they'd need logging zones around the whole forest, like Taís said, because common people probably can't go very far for logging, because they need to carry the trees back home.
Feather is confused by this proposed deal. She's also disgusted by it. Here's a druid offering their forest up for logging, zones 'managed' by the humans and not even by the druids themselves, with replanting at the humans' mercy and lack of it punished, if at all, by the humans themselves and under their laws. And when the humans inevitably strip their zones back and fail to replant them in time they'll be back demanding more, and the forest will be smaller and weaker and in a worse bargaining position.
This is worse than what the Verduran did. This is not just 'groveling'. This is a druid who failed to protect their forest, gave up on succeeding, and is begging to be spared to die a century from now and not tomorrow. Begging the humans, instead of begging their fellow forests for help.
She's not going to say any of that now, it won't help anything. (But it surely shows on her face.) What she does say is -
"Will you fine the lords for not replanting quickly enough, and not limiting logging to keep their assigned zones - sustainable?"
...thinking about it some more, Feather can figure out the source of her sudden distress.
Until now, Voshrelka was offering her personal Plant Growth castings in return for things. Feather didn't always understand why she offered the things she did, or the way she did it, but at the end of the day they were hers to offer and she was asking for good things in exchange. Feather would have no grounds to complain, not even if Voshrelka's negotiations failed, considering how her own have been going.
But now she's offering things on behalf of her entire Forest. The same Forest whose druids she previously claimed did not make their decisions in common. Who is going to assign the humans logging zones all around the Barrowood? Voshrelka herself? What will happen the first or second or tenth time another druid, or someone else in the Forest, decides to object, either to a specific zone or to the whole idea? Will Voshrelka fight on the humans' side against them, to defend the treaty? Will someone else from the Forest try to kill Voshrelka over it, losing the humans their Plant Growth? Will the treaty fall apart within a year, with the humans deciding forests could not be negotiated with, just as some of them had claimed to her?
Even if the treaty Voshrelka proposed works it will not stop the Forest's destruction, as far as Feather can tell. But she doesn't think it will get that far.
The only thing worse would be if she really thought the druids of the Barrowood were united behind Voshrelka's proposal, but Voshrelka herself isn't claiming that, so... how does anyone imagine this working?
"So what I'm hearing here is that most druids don't really care if people harvest the trees that aren't dryads, or go hunting in there either, but do care that when they do that they dig some holes and put some acorns in the holes so that there will be trees in a hundred years. Things in the forest might kill people, like sea monsters might do the same to fishermen, and it's okay to go in enough force to kill those things back, maybe unless they're fey too? Have I got the right of it, more or less?"
“More or less. The concern is, to put it in fishing terminology, overfishing an area until all of the fish are dead, and none are around to breed more for anyone else. Though the metaphor breaks down when it also comes to the equivalent of destroying bodies of water people can fish in as well, which happens with forests and not so much with rivers and lakes. We care if the overall balance of the system is upset, such that everyone loses out on resources that can only be found in proper forests.” Because caring about the sanctity of life of the original inhabitants of the forest is beyond the pale for humans, it’s all got to be explained in small words why destroying things is bad for them.
This is broadly right except for how the druids of Ravounel Forest will correctly never trust the outsider humans to actually maintain the balance of the system, and so they will not make any 'managed logging zones' in Ravounel Forest, and so it will still be around in her grandchildren's time. (Hopefully.)
If all it took was putting some acorns in holes in the ground, forests wouldn't need druids. Soler may be a 'sower' but Feather doubts he even knows what depth to plant acorns at, because 'dig a hole' suggests something alarmingly large.
"No. Treants aren't fey. Neither are elves. Neither are metallic dragons or werebears, and you should leave all of these alone. You should kill werewolves if you can't cure them, but not if you can, and -"
He tries to inhale. "The forest is big. There is very much in the forest. If a group of Arcadians landed at the western coast of Cheliax, some areas you would not mind them settling and fishing and farming, and some areas they would be chased off from, and they would be very confused why some strix liked them and some didn't. The Whisperwood is not a thing, it is a world, and it is a world where if people who don't know it go bumbling around they will get themselves killed and probably hurt other people. Some places the Sower is right and some places the Sower is wrong and I can't specify precisely enough for you to not all get yourselves killed unless we are walking the outer rim of the Whisperwood right there."
"The Barrowood's had a better track record of keeping the bits that outsiders wander into safer and less damaging than the rest, but Tuimfane is of course quite right. Bumbling blindly inside is not recommended for one's safety and longevity, and it is much more complicated than the simple gloss makes it sound.
"As to resources - so, some of them are directly beneficial to you, like ship logs and certain herbs that are very picky about their conditions? Some of the things found there druids need for our spells, and actively need to be in places of high concentration of life. And yes, some of those spells are directly beneficial to you as well, though forgive me for not going down the full list of what coincides to what and where it needs to be grown. But it is also about, hm. Drawing away the monsters that would otherwise haunt more populated areas. Whisperwood's dragon, for instance, would it be better if she instead decided to take over a city to rule for herself, ravaged your pastures and farmlands and demanded tribute from you directly? No, absolutely not. The fey are similarly drawn in and away from your settlements, as are gnolls and goblins drawn away from raiding your crops and killing your livestock to eat. I know that the modern conceit is that forests are breeding grounds for monsters, that if you were rid of them you'd be rid of what they hold, but in a properly managed system, this is not so. They obviously can become breeding grounds, without proper management from druids, but they're... sort of a place to collect all of the strange and prickly things that would not play nice in your tidy civilization. So you don't have to deal with them."
Voshrelka's claim is an obvious deceit. Most kinds of people can't live, or at least thrive, outside a proper forest. The Outsider-human ideal is to destroy everything nonhuman except what they eat, and if they can kill the forests despite the dragons and fey who live in them and fight to defend them, they will also kill the remaining dragons and fey who don't have a forest to hide in.
Of course she's not going to say any of this.
"Yes. Your government slaughtered the shepherds that were supposed to keep them in, then dove into its depths for their own prizes, stirring up trouble that they would then not have to bear the consequences of. Which then wanders out to kill you. This is not the way it should be."
Things come out of the forest and into the mountains, too, sometimes. But the mountains aren't easy to climb, so they don't get owlbears or lesser grades of fey who just want to make mischief, they get dragons, and bigger fey, who actively want something. So if you don't want them around you can usually give them the thing, or tell them where it is, or grovel about not knowing, and they'll mostly leave you alone; but sometimes they just want to talk, and that's why Liushna knows Sylvan and Draconic and why the tribes of the itarii have fey and draconic sorcerous bloodlines. Overall it's a system that works pretty well!
"Just grow wings and live in mountains" is not remotely actionable advice though so she keeps her mouth shut.
Actually it was before that, with the greed of the Arodenites, but sure. She will play along with this polite fiction. It made her furious, when she was younger, but now she knows it’s part of this dance of theirs. Just another thing to be leveraged.
"Indeed! And they will not be mourned by any of us. You’ll note that I am here, attempting to change things." She taps her fingers on the table as she thinks.
"But this is all - more long term change that will be tricky to implement. If possible, there are two things I'd like to accomplish today. The first is officially outlaw dryad harvesting, the sooner that becomes written law the better. The second is... I suppose not forest based, but. Plant Growth. Someone, somewhere, needs to work out which places to Plant Growth to lessen the chance of famine. I can dump it randomly on applicable farmland in flight range, but that doesn't really do anything for the overall situation itself. Just Westcrown. So." She motions vaguely with her hand. "Assistance there sooner rather than later - while everything is still growing - is of utmost importance."
"One would want to map out a travel circuit, I think, through the Heartlands - the part of Cheliax that has historically grown nearly all of the food our people eat. I can provide you with maps; they are imperfect but I think tend to have the right things next to the right other things. When the Heartlands has a good harvest we ship the grain downriver and it is inexpensive in the cities also. Would you want accommodations along your route? Assurances that every lord whose land you pass through knows why you're there, has agreed to enforce the ban on dryad harvesting as best he can, and will not tax the improved harvests excessively?"
The claim that the Heartlands is the top breadbasket of Cheliax is an exaggeration, but Voshrelka doesn't particularly care to call her on it. It can actually be argued that it's a better place to start than the Sirmium, because it's closer to where she is right now. But by her estimations, the Sirmium is still in the top spot for food output. She's pretty sure this noblewoman is saying this and not trying to figure out how to do the sensible thing and get one of the many wizards of Cheliax to teleport her because it'll benefit her lands, personally. This is fine by Voshrelka.
"No accommodations are necessary," and she doesn't particularly trust anyone's promises, but saying that is not being a good little Plant Growth druid, so instead she will pretend her reasons are more noble, "and assurances of those kind would be welcome, but I understand word will spread slowly and my necessity is speed to prevent oncoming famine. But a map and a travel circuit is exactly the sort of thing I meant. The ones I have are hundreds of years out of date."
Well. Sort of. Technically the route she used for Diminish Plants isn't as out of date, only being about fifty years instead of over a hundred, but she will be pretending that this route does not exist and never did and those famines were just bad weather and war. Anyway, that one wasn't built for efficiency of maximized spell usage, but for plausible explanations for failing harvests that do not trace back to any druids.
Nod. "I expect I'll end up doing that, but I also," don't particularly want to chase down every noble to ask them for how best to devote her time to saving their people, "expect they might be difficult to approach, especially personally as a druid."
Anyway, she gets out her maps of the old Plant Growth circuits. The paper is yellowed, the ink is faded, and it's got a sort of crumbly delicate quality that hints at its age. These maps are, in fact, older than almost everyone else in this room.
"Here are the old circuit maps," she says, and carefully slides them over to Lady de Seguer, "I would appreciate having updated copies returned to me as soon as possible."
Is she sort of ordering a Lady around directly? Yes. Is this a druid flex? Also yes. Is she enjoying this a little? Definite yes. Dance, nobles, dance, it's to your own benefit.
See, Feather would also go around giving you plant growth if you gave her what she wants, except what she wants is to not have logging zones in her forest.
...at least when she gets route maps it'll be from the Archduchess of Kintargo and hopefully she won't feel as bad about making her happy as she does seeing Eulàlia smile. A happy Eulàlia is disturbing.
"That would be appreciated, thank you."
As to her abilities: "Two per day," actually three, but she wants to be able to dictate at least one of her third circle spells, and knows how humans are, "and I can be a bird that flies 50 miles per hour," actually she can be even faster with the help of Greater Longstrider, and the estimated speed she's offering is already on the low scale in case of inclement weather, "for six hours a day." Actually twelve. But, again: not being honest about her abilities. "I do not need to drop my wildshape to cast Plant Growth." That one's true, though, and frankly she thinks it would be strange to meet a druid of her power that hasn't figured out how to cast spells while wildshaped. It would be downright suspicious to lie about, especially at her age, and admitting to doing Plant Growth circuits before.
All of this to say that: druids, even when purposefully underestimating their own travel speed, can hustle.