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A utilitarian Easterner lands on Vanyel during the Karsite War.
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Vanyel didn't intend to fall asleep so early! It's especially ridiculous because he already took a longish nap after lunch. He's been trying to write out some notes about his impressions of Janos so far - to guess at what conflicts they're likely to run into, so he can think about how to head them off, or at least talk it through with Randi. 

He dozes off with a candle still burning in the sconce by his bed and papers spread across his lap, and he's not especially surprised to find himself in a snowy expanse. Really, he was expecting this days ago. 

"Leareth," he says cautiously. 

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"Herald Vanyel." And, to his confusion, Leareth takes a few steps forward. He looks...relieved? And worried, maybe. "Are you well?" 

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"What– oh. I'm guessing your spies heard something?" 

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"Something, yes." Leareth smiles thinly. "In any case, I am glad to see you." 

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Has Leareth been fretting about his wellbeing. This is very strange and kind of uncomfortable. 

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"In any case. I hope that recent events mean you will at least have some opportunity to rest." 

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"There is that." Oh, and there might be an opening here to ask some questions about the Eastern Empire. "I've been catching up on reading." 

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"Oh?" Leareth's eyebrow lifts a fraction. "Anything of particular interest?" 

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"Er, one of the more interesting things I've been reading is about the Eastern Empire. I think it's written by someone who left. Or, er, escaped. I believe it's from Hardorn." 

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"Really? That does sound fascinating." 

Leareth's expression is as unruffled and unreadable as always. 

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Is he suspicious. Vanyel is pretty sure Leareth is suspicious. How can he always tell what Vanyel is thinking???? 

"Yes, it is. ...The author reminds me a bit of you, actually."  

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"Hmm. Say more?" 

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Aaaaaaaaaah! This is intensely stressful, even moreso than the average conversation with Leareth, which is really saying something. Vanyel is pretty sure that Leareth is somehow extracting far more from this interaction than Vanyel himself is, but he doesn't know what

"I'm not sure I know how to explain it, but - the whole results over virtue thing? The author of the treatise clearly thinks that way. And - he thinks really highly of the Eastern Empire, even though a lot of the specifics mentioned seem horrible to me, and in particular it clearly turned out badly for him - it seems like he ended up sort of exiled over some internal politics, and would have died if he'd stayed. Though of course I don't know how seriously to take any of the claims about how the Eastern Empire does things." 

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Leareth's dark eyes are intent. "Which claims are those?" 

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"Oh, just that they use compulsions all the time - to imitate a Truth Spell, but also lots of other things, that seem less necessary to me - and they apparently execute criminals for blood-magic just to dig canals faster!" 

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"....Er, to be clear, I expect you to say that's obviously worth it if you do the math." 

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Leareth pauses for a long time before answering, as though very carefully choosing his words. 

 

"Well, it depends what factors are being included in the math you are doing, right? It is not something I would advise the government of Valdemar to start implementing." 

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This was not the answer Vanyel was expecting and now he has no idea what to say! 

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Leareth's lips twitch very slightly. "Are you expecting that I will agree with the other claim, that the Eastern Empire is better than Valdemar in many ways, and worth admiring and emulating?" 

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Whyyyyyyy does every single conversation with Leareth leave him this off-balance! 

Vanyel flings up his hands. "I don't know! I guess so, until you said that!" 

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"I think it is...complicated. The Eastern Empire is one possible stable equilibrium for a society to be in - one very far removed from Valdemar's current equilibrium. There are advantages, and also disadvantages. You may be able to name some of them, based on what you learned from this source?" 

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What is Leareth PLAYING AT right now????? 

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"It's...wealthy?" he says, after several moments of frantic thinking. "The author seemed really surprised at the extent of poverty in Hardorn, although, er, to be fair rural Hardorn is pretty terrible. The Eastern Empire has a lot of magic available, and - a lot more mages, it seems like? Maybe more engineering expertise although I'm not sure why. I guess no big surprise that they've got more and better canals, with the obvious impact on trade. In terms of the downsides, well, wouldn't trade nicer clothes and buildings and magical lighting and transportation for being under compulsions and scared I would get executed for thinking thoughts disloyal to the Emperor." 

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Leareth nods. 

"I - would actually say that the downsides you point out are a surface-level manifestation of something deeper. The Empire...has a great deal of momentum. It is difficult to dislodge from its current trajectory. And - that trajectory is good in many ways, as you point out, but there are many kinds of human suffering other than material scarcity." 

He pauses again, eyes resting on Vanyel, his expression as opaque as ever. 

"I do think that the suffering is limited, because - in many ways the Empire's legal system still functions with a reasonable degree of integrity, if...less so than it once did. It is more corrupt than Valdemar, but I would argue less so than Hardorn. I - would say that the stability of the system is perhaps a more frustrating limitation than the corruption that has managed to seep in. It is an Empire that has endured for nearly two thousand years, and could easily last millennia more, if not - disrupted by outside factors." 

There's an odd flicker of...something...in Leareth's eyes, as he says that. 

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Vanyel is so confused. 

"You're...saying that's a problem? I've always thought of Valdemar's stability as a good thing." 

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