"Conde, welcome. I'm afraid I haven't; I've been busy helping our new Lord Mayor get situated."

Dinner is Longmarch fare with a bit of a twist, beginning with a dish that combines potatoes, eggs, sausage, and peppers.

"I do hope that's going well."

He retrieves some annotated committee transcripts. "I'm sure you've already seen the proposal out of Safe Roads to reduce the necessity of haste in drafting laws. That aside, a number of committees are contemplating proposals that are rather more radical, so to speak. 

Most pressingly, the Committee on Necessary Alterations to the Monarchy appears to have tasked itself with drafting the main body of the constitution. The committee is chaired by the Lord-Marshal, but as for the remaining members of the committee... I think Delegate Marti's first attempt at a proposal for the structure of the legislature rather speaks for itself."

"Only time will tell, but I hope our trust was well-placed." 

He indeed discussed the proposal on haste extensively in committee, but he hasn't thought much about the Committee on Necessary Alterations, and doesn't know Delegate Marti, even by name. He skims it then passes it around the table. "Well, thoughts?" He looks first to Felip.

"Overcomplicated," he judges quickly. "The requirement that laws that make any moderate change be approved by each estate individually means the state will be unable to settle disputes between the estates, except in those rare cases where a proposal touching on both their interests has majority support in both estates." 

Hmm. She had hoped to talk this over with just Felip, but if Jonatan has already discovered the importance of the committee--Carlota will suspect it came from her, unless she somehow manages to maneuver this now.

"What I see," she says, "is that the Lord Marshal is unlikely to get drafting help from his committee, if this is the caliber of material they're producing." 

She gestures towards the transcript. "But I note he speaks approvingly of the idea of mirroring the convention, with the idea that the estates might have different responsibilities to match their different concerns. I think we should present him with a well-developed draft that gives the religious and elected legislatures appropriately narrow remits and reserves the remaining power for a committee of the nobility.

Incidentally, I had lunch with de Chelam today, where she shared the news of her engagement to the Lord Marshal, and specifically encouraged me to bring concerns privately to her and the Lord Marshal. I think he might appreciate your assistance with his draft, Conde, while finding the attention of the whole floor distracting from this important task." 

Oh, good. He had been hoping the two of them would get together, and is somewhat surprised it's moving so quickly. They laid those plans while focused merely on the marriage aspect of the convention, and thinking about it in the context of politics it seems not wholly positive.

He nods. "I certainly agree that bringing this matter to the attention of the floor should be avoided if at all possible. But I worry that if we wait to speak to him about the matter until we've presented him with a draft, we might inadvertently neglect considerations of great importance to him. It might be prudent to speak with him before his committee has devoted extensive time and effort to drafting, to ensure we are of one mind."

Next up is a roast suckling pig, with the classic apple in its mouth, offered to the guest. (There are also several baked apple dishes on the side; the apples are recognizably prominent Longmarch varieties, including a few common in Cerdanya, both a heritage varietal that would have been around in Jonatan's time and newer ones developed since the civil war.)

"There are several ways to get on the same page," Felip begins, "but I find the best is to provide the page yourself. If we write sections of the constitution and present them to him, he can criticize and we can edit together, and what he does not comment on will be ours instead of his. And the provision of labor is our table stakes. If we just add our demands to the pile of his considerations, it is only the implicit threat that we have pierced his secrecy and could bring more attention to him that would cause him to take them more seriously than he was planning to.

His education, if I understand correctly, was a martial one and not a legal one. A drafting partner would more than double his progress, I expect, and he must yearn for swift completion of this task as much as any of us, with his other duties."

"Their wedding will wait until the conclusion of the convention, I hear."

Jonatan's taste in food has been rather shaped by decades in Heaven, in respects that he only partially remembers. Still, as food on Golarion goes, this is one of his favorites; he compliments it effusively.

"I certainly did not mean to imply we ought threaten him into acquiescence, Your Grace, merely that we ought approach him in the spirit of collaboration as men with a shared desire for a stable and prosperous country. If you think it would be best to prepare a draft proposal for the legislature prior to approaching him, I defer to your judgment."

"Just so. The essence of leadership is discovering what other men need and providing it to them. We could even prepare multiple drafts to cover a range of strategies he could take, to be more clearly providing him options instead of taking the reins."

"The Conde must sleep tonight if he desires to have spells tomorrow," she reminds her husband. "If there are only so many pages that can be produced, putting thought into which to produce will likely go a long way, and I suspect a third legislature proposal would be less useful than a first judiciary proposal."

"Right as always. So let us sketch out a legislature and see how long it takes us." He gestures, and a servant fetches a scribe to take notes. 

Is Her Grace imagining that he would produce a draft in a single night? ...No, more likely he simply misunderstood.

"I admit I find myself unsure of how best to accommodate the Lord-Marshal's desire to see the estates of this convention represented in our legislative body, without requiring common men to take up tasks for which they are not by nature suited."

Actually, this is important enough that he ought to use his full faculties, even if it runs the risk of ruining dinner. (It will definitely ruin his appetite, at least until he turns back.) He turns, and collects his thoughts.

"First, it should only have one body, large enough to include everyone of note but small enough that discussions are manageable. It should meet infrequently enough that they can attend to their duties elsewhere, and allow for delegation, so that men with more might than wisdom can appoint jurists and negotiators to draft and debate for them.

We could begin with the dukes and archdukes. The elf wizard thought a seventh circle wizard was the match for a duke; suppose we adopt that, and for clerics as well. If a church wishes to be represented in Cheliax's politics, let them show it with their strength."

She perhaps has lower standards for a draft. A sketch with enough details that there's something to discuss; that's all they need.

"The Duchess de Chelam proposed something similar, when we spoke. I think there is much merit in it, but we should perhaps consider the relevant individuals more closely, and attempt to foresee how their deliberations might go."

"I admit that what I have heard of the wizards of the infernal regime leaves me with little expectation that their presence in our legislature would leave Cheliax better off. Clerics of the righteous gods of similar power, perhaps, coming as they do with a god's endorsement, though I find myself uncertain whether there is a single seventh-circle cleric in the entire country." If he means to set the standards so high that no clerics meet them that is wholly understandable, but it ought to be done deliberately if it is done at all. 

Her Grace seems to have noticed the radicalism among the archdukes; he need not comment on it.

Hmm. When Chelam proposed the archdukes set the schedule, it seemed tolerable only if almost all of the power was held by his liege. If the archdukes and the dukes have the same strength of vote, the dukes will outnumber them--but how many of the other dukes would have voted alongside him in the debates they've had so far? Only a few of them are on committees, and their opinions recorded by the scribes.

"It does seem that on many matters of note, the counts and the archdukes disagree," he says slowly, "and I fear the counts may be more in touch with the realities of governance.

But it seems we face a tradeoff. If there is one body which contains both dukes and meta-dukes, such as they are, it can be legitimate and select. But if there is a body that contains all the counts, or even all the barons, then there are many who justly view themselves as a baron's peer, despite holding no title. The council will either be Grand or grand." He gestures 'tall' and 'wide', while saying them. 

"Cheliax once merited a cleric of the ninth circle," he says to the Conde, "and not just because Asmodeus viewed it as his possession. Once the current crisis has passed, I expect it to look more like the Cheliax of your time; perhaps with even more lofty clerics if we nearly hand them a duchy on arrival."

"Frankly, I think we will not manage to produce a legislature we are happy with, and so the question is simply what strategic retreat is possible and preferable, with an eye to the future. The Queen chose these archdukes, likely with the intent that her will would flow outward from the throne through them. If we are to resist or channel that will, let us do it carefully and deliberately."

"I'm afraid the example of Arodenite Cheliax will be of little use here; the Estates General convened only rarely, and never within my lifetime." In the Age of Glory, people had said, only the Age of Glory never arrived. "But I worry that however wise and honorable the archdukes, limiting the legislature to only a few men and their trusted representatives will leave them far overworked, when the entire legal code has so recently been abolished. If it were the will of the Queen for the archdukes alone to craft the laws of Cheliax, she could have invited them and them alone to the Constitutional Convention, but she chose instead to extend invitations to every count."

"Well, and to randomly selected Chelish people, from all walks of life; not even just the citizens, as Cyprian would have done it. I think we cannot be certain what of the Convention's design was her will and what was requested of her by her allies, who have deliberately decided to not make the same request of us.

Cyprian took the Infernal model and refined it; I suspect it will be disaster for Cheliax if we let the Galtophiles do the same here. But I think our Queen does not have Cyprian's taste for tyranny, or she would have shown it in a flurry of decrees this last year. I think instead she means for us to take on most of work of governing the country, so that she can focus her efforts on the problems that require a legendary blade, or take a well-deserved rest.

I think that more men in the governing body increases rather than decreases their work; a Queen need not negotiate over every line in her decree, when our committees seem to be inclined to debate them. If it takes a hundred draftsmen to compile a code of laws, a council of fifteen could simply hire them as staff. 

And speaking of hiring, we should have an eye to the ministries, as well. Deciding the man for a role of responsibility is often more important than drafting the text of the law he must implement. Perhaps we should move those appointments to the council from the crown, much like we are considering doing that for sheriffs."

"Ah, while we're on the subject of Galt, I had also meant to inform you that the Rights Committee is entertaining an attempt to abolish or radically alter the nature of serfdom." He passes the transcripts over. "I doubt that proposal is in any danger of passing the floor, but you ought to be apprised of it."

What idiocy. Who--

Ah. Sirmium.

"Well, it seems I was wise to bring that up in discussion with Carlota earlier today. I am less sanguine than you about how it will fare on the floor; I think this may be another situation where strategic retreat is called for, or clever maneuver. How much did you investigate the state of serfdom in your lands, Conde?"

"It has been among my priorities, though of course there has been much that needs doing. I would certainly not be opposed to minor reforms, to prevent the worst excesses of Asmodean cruelty, but abolishing it entirely would be far more disruptive."

"I had to write a manual on how to be a proper master, and then once I realized how they were misinterpreting that, I had to write manuals on how to be a proper husband and a proper father." He grimaces.

"I think if we merely introduced the ancient rights of serfs, it would be viewed by the commons as a compassionate and extremely popular measure, after generations of tyranny. It will strain the consciences of us and our allies to argue for serfdom before having done so. Few knew how to interpret dreams from Desna, or that it was improper to maim them, or that they could not be forced from their lands on the master's whim."

She reads the transcript more carefully. "The Sower asks why people like having serfs. We might be able to host a meeting of the Erastilians, and invite some other members from Rights, and see if we can stymie Sirmium in committee. If they focus on the rights of serfs instead of their abolition, that is two victories at once."

He nods. "I would certainly have no objection to reestablishing the ancient rights of serfs, with special care given to those eroded by Asmodean masters, so long as the institution itself remains. I do not know if the more radical elements of the committee will be satisfied with that, but I expect them to have little hope of convincing the floor alone."

He had been dearly hoping that they would be able to have Ferrer arrested for treason, but the Queen refused Captain Sarocca's request to permit him to do so.

"Returning to the legislature, it seems to me like we can perhaps hope to establish a tolerable state of affairs with the constitution, and prevent the legislature from changing it without sufficiently high agreement. Or perhaps there is a way to have the liberal coterie unable to enact their most foolish ideas; we could have both a small deliberative body, which generates proposals, and then a larger consultative body, which must approve them. If a majority of counts must affix their mark to the abolition of serfdom, it is unlikely to happen, even if every archduke votes in favor, and if it requires three quarters of them, I cannot imagine it coming to pass." 

Nod. "That does seem reasonable. I presume this body's assent would also be needed for any matters which in Aroden's day would have required convening the Estates-General?"

"We cannot rely on the floor understanding what those matters are, and perhaps some of them have grown stale. So let us enumerate the categories. Off the top of my head, I can think of: adding members to the body, editing the overall organization of the government, imposing a new tax, declaring war, chartering a colony, chartering an order, issuing decrees, appointing ministers. What else is there?"

"Would you leave ratification of treaties with the Crown?"

Hmm. "No, I would add that to the list as well, I think."

The approval of the Estates General was not actually required for all of those purposes in Arodenite Cheliax, but considering that the new legislature will likely convene much more frequently, it doesn't seem unreasonable to imitate the customs of other countries in this respect.

"Approving regents for the Crown. Altering the composition of the coinage. Permitting favored churches to establish ecclesiastical courts, or revoking such permission." He frowns thoughtfully. "It would perhaps be prudent to consult with Conde Acevedo before presenting the Lord-Marshal with our proposal, to ensure we have not forgotten anything."

"I would consider it a favor if you obtained his advice without sharing your intelligence with him. We may lose our opportunity if the Duchess or the Lord Marshal think that if they give us a finger, we will take the whole arm."

He had been imagining that they would consult with other men of good judgment before presenting the Lord Marshal with a draft. The prospect of developing their proposal alone, with only their own knowledge and experience to guide them save what they can obtain without ever stating the reason directly, is rather more intimidating. It would be so easy to simply fail to consider something important, not out of malice or carelessness but merely due to the magnitude of the task.

His face betrays none of that. "Of course, Your Grace."

"If we forget an area of responsibility, I imagine it will be easy to add to the draft afterwards; it is only the skeleton we seek to establish at the moment.

So then the thresholds. There is both the question of who must be consulted--the deliberative body, the consultative body, the Queen--and what assent is required: a majority, two thirds, or three quarters. I doubt we will be able to get three quarters in the final proposal, but we may as well start there and retreat back to two thirds as required." If there are only twenty in the small council, the difference between the two is not very large, but he feels more comfortable with the prospect of finding six defenders for a privilege than nine. It will likely matter more for the large council.

"For issues related to her direct responsibilities, the Queen can rule directly; for issues related to the direct responsibilities of the deliberative body, it may rule directly, with a supermajority required to modify procedures or admit new members and a majority for other business. For minor issues pertaining to the realm, the deliberative body may rule with a majority vote with the approval of the Queen, or a supermajority with the Queen's disapproval. For major issues, the deliberative body may submit a proposal for the consideration of the consultative body on the same standard--majority with the Queen's approval and supermajority without--and the consultative body must approve with a majority for most matters and approve with a supermajority for modifications to the organization of the government." (Felip does not yet think of the 'constitution' as synonymous with the organization of the government, but he means constitutional amendments.)

"The deliberative body meets four times a year, at the turning of the seasons, or by direct summons of the Queen in cases of emergency, until they conclude their business by a supermajority vote of members; the consultative body has until the next regular meeting of the deliberative body to vote on all issues submitted to it, and has no direct meetings.

No doubt we will find much more to discuss in detail--perhaps there will be different requirements for appointing a minister to a term and cutting short that term, for example--but I am eager to hear your thoughts on the sketch."

Their feedback is interrupted by the arrival of the next course; this one is a selection of wines, cheeses, and pastries.

"If the consultative body never meets directly, it may be more difficult for its members to consult with each other on complex matters. Apart from that... I admit that I would expect quarterly meetings to become burdensome, but if you expect otherwise I would defer to your judgment. There will need to be some standard for major and minor issues, of course, and we ought specify how abstentions affect the threshold. 

It was also a priority of the Lord Marshal that all offensive wars be approved by the church of Iomedae, and I suspect it will be simplest to lay out provision for that separately, without attempting to make it fit an identical procedure to other matters."

"They will be able to consult through the standard modes of communication available throughout the Empire; with three months to consider matters,  I expect them to be well-understood. We should perhaps include a provision where, at the meeting after a proposal has been sent to the consultative body for approval, it can be amended by the deliberative body and sent out for review again, even if it has sufficient consent to pass, so that subtle issues raised by wider consideration can be addressed.

As for wars, I was imagining simply leaving that off the list of powers of the council and Queen, and instead having a Minister of War who is appointed by the Glorious Reclamation, and may make such decisions in consultation with the Queen. 

I see another avenue we could proceed down: form multiple deliberative councils, which are responsible for laws of different types. I think this more closely resembles the Lord Marshal's proposal in committee. While we could form multiple consultative bodies as well, this seems unlikely to provide much value; instead we should ensure those matters which require specialized experience to consider have the standard for what issues are minor set so that most of their business need not be considered by the whole empire."

"Three months may be perfectly adequate for you and I, Your Grace, but for our Menadoran cousins, it may scarcely be enough time to receive word from the deliberative body and send back their decision."

He points out of the room and whispers. "We could consult with Narikopolus. It may be that it would be an unacceptable hardship for him to call his counts to Kantaria four times a year."

A servant enters with a map of Cheliax, which he investigates. "I am not sure what we could do differently, however. Either they must come to Westcrown--which is more of a hardship than simply receiving and sending a letter--or we reduce the frequency of meetings, to give the return trip four months instead of three. But I think it is far cheaper to spend Teleports on those few that cannot be reached swiftly enough by regular mail. If they can Scry, that also neatly solves receiving the letter, but not sending it back. Well, I suppose we will know who has not sent letters back in time, and can Scry them from Westcrown easily enough.

My own preference would be for them to consider the cost and exclude themselves from the consultative body if their contributions are not worth the hassle of communicating with Westcrown. But they cannot know whether any season's laws demand their attention without reading them. Delegating their vote would solve the issue as well, either to their better-connected liege or an ambassador."

"Of those possibilities, permitting delegation to a selected person seems as if it will best allow for us to address any issues we have failed to think of. If the chosen representatives are assembled together, it could also permit the legislature to respond to emergencies without undue delay."

"Are we imagining much in the way of emergency business which requires the full consultative body to be assembled? It will likely be as large as this convention, if not larger, and the only decisions we seem capable of making quickly seem to be bad ones."

"I am unsure what to imagine, but I fear that makes it all the more necessary that it be possible to respond to emergencies should they arise. Unnecessary haste is a danger too, but a danger that I hope can be mitigated with the composition of the bodies in question and the greater threshold for them to act."

"In times of crisis, it is often more important whether or not people act in unison than which plan they decide to implement. I think we should set responsibilities such that matters which require swiftness can be responded to by one or a few men, and only draw on the consent of the many in situations where issues can be slowly considered. An ox cannot gallop, and we should not limit a horse to an ox's speed. Even beyond the Lord Marshal's desire to only prosecute wars Iomedae approves of, it seems wise to me to vest that power in the hands of one or two men, rather than have deliberations which may be slow and public."

"By longstanding tradition, the approval of regents for the Crown has required the consent of a body of men far more similar to the consultative than the deliberative." (Primarily in the sense that it makes civil war marginally less likely if it's clear the counts are united, or so he was taught; it is not as if his tutors had many examples to draw from.) "It seems unlikely to matter in the near future, but I would not wish to leave our country headless for months if it can be avoided."

"I can see the wisdom of it. The Crown's appointed regent could begin to act immediately with limited powers, until approved in their office by the consultative body. If no such regent has been appointed, the deliberative body can appoint an acting regent, who has the same limited powers until approved, and if either is rejected by the consultative body the deliberative body must appoint another regent. But the Queen's brother is an adult, and so this will not be an issue until the future. But... he hardly has the security from danger that the Queen and her archmage friends enjoy from any common threat. And besides, I worry that power attracts danger commensurate with it, and it is the truly rare threats that we must consider."

He glances down the table.

"The House of Fraga was always deliberately small and thus fragile, concentrating our sorcerous power to better rule and protect. But now I find my modest family is a wealth of relations, by the standards of contemporary Cheliax. Regency, and process of filling vacant seats, will no doubt be on the minds of many."

He is ranging broadly, again. Time to refocus him. "Indeed, but on such a personal matter I expect most to choose sensibly. Perhaps we should determine whether there is anything else to add to our sketch of the legislature to flesh it out, or whether it is complete enough for others to consider."

"If there are to be religious or elected bodies working alongside the consultative body, as we were discussing earlier, we ought have some proposal for the proper responsibilities of those bodies, even if the Lord-Marshal will likely want to refine it."

"In a negotiation, it is best to learn from the other side what they value dearly and trade it to them, not guess and perhaps overspend. Let us set the structure, one example, and a process for creating more, and see what they clamor for. The wizards of the realm may wish to set the standards for the academies, or they might not, content to leave it to the boards of individual institutions. If we assign them the work they may be reluctant to let go of it.

But as for the form--it could be different consultative bodies, spread widely throughout the realm like the counts, but I doubt this will provide much wisdom to the government. Do we need a majority of Pharasmin clerics to approve of regulations for graveyards, or can we simply consult with the church, or a single cleric in the relevant ministry?

We could flip it on its head, and instead propose different deliberative bodies. The Pharasmins might be able to propose decrees related to their remit, which must then be approved by the consultative body. This maintains power in the hands of the nobility, who can halt the worst flights of fancy, while including the others and making use of their expertise."

"And how would you determine what is or isn't in their remit? To allow any church to propose any policy might force the nobility to continually shoot down ideas which sound good to the populace and are against their long-term interests, fomenting unrest. And if the main deliberative body must approve all such proposals, they might be tempted to exercise broader judgment in whether or not to let the proposal pass on than the other deliberative bodies wish."

"The Queen has already showed us the way; a geased magistrate can interpret the law on whether the proposal falls inside or outside of a body's charter."

He nods. "The idea of a single consultative body with more specialized deliberative bodies seems wise, Your Grace, so long as the magistrate is a man of good judgement and character and his Geas is phrased so as to allow him adequate discretion. I suspect the composition of the additional deliberative bodies will also be a point of contention, though perhaps in that matter we may wish to hear the Lord-Marshal's thoughts before committing to any particular proposal."