"If the archdukes of Cheliax can't convince the President or Her Majesty, it can't be as important as all that. Likewise, the party leaders- may have something to say about another giveaway to the archdukes."

"We have parties with leaders? I thought we just had folks throwing parties and didn't think they'd turned into the second thing just yet."

"Political factions are the first step of civil war. I don't think we have them, I hope we don't have them, and I think we'll have to work diligently to ensure that continues being true. I don't think there are likely to be matters in which the archdukes can't convince the Queen or the President, but the Queen and President both have endeavored to stay out of many matters of the convention, and so I'd rather not oblige them in intervention they might consider inappropriate."

This seems like a perfectly sensible measure, after the lions. The archdukes carve out is obviously designed to favor her own faction, but they do in fact need a way to respond in emergencies or other bills in the vein of abolition, and it at least limits the games her grace tries to the ones she can get Lord Shawil to sign off on. And he definitely doesn’t want to be raising the same objections the bandit did, or shatter the pretense to the commons that said factions don’t exist.

It is very emphatically not his job to determine if it’s a deal their group will accept, though, a baron doesn’t lead counts and dukes against a duchess. He’ll read through the proposal again to make sure he’s not missing something else.

"We definitely have parties."

"The president's time is extremely valuable; I think allowing the archdukes to act together in his stead is sensible, though unanimity seems to me to be too high a bar." He's not excited about the prospect of Bainilus holding up a vote on something important.

"If you'd prefer, your grace, we could do 'the assent of four archdukes, or five if an archduke of Molthune is appointed'."

Uh. Hopefully this is a concession his grace is offering to her in exchange for something they worked out ahead of time. But how best to ask it...

"So that if the lord of Longmarch were away on business in Axis, the other four archdukes would be able to send a bill to the floor? There does seem to be advantages to that, but I wouldn't want to suggest we don't value his input."

“Or so that if the Archduchess is indisposed as there were concerns about earlier an emergency could still be responded to,” says Carlota, who doesn’t consider herself in a faction with Bainilus actually.

"If they are being called to settle a simple question of urgency in a time of crisis, then it seems to me that a majority would be sufficient to ensure wise judgment and robust to the indisposition of the archdukes, for one reason or another. If there are more proposals which should be sealed--as perhaps the Molthuni question should have been--I am not sure how retroactive judgments could adequately respond to the situation, rather than the Archmage's office controlling what proposals and amendments can be posted.

It seems to me that the more important question is who is scheduling the regular floor votes, and how. I do not think we wish to continue resolving races in the style of Nexland." 

"You mean the habit of Dimension Dooring to the front? Yes, it doesn't seem in keeping with any spirit of responsibility. I think the ideal solution would be a committee dedicated to scheduling votes and setting the order of speeches and which also has remit over qualifying amendments for a vote - because I don't think it is serving us to let any bill be arbitrarily amended by a single proposal and single second of that proposal.

 But the committee would have to be trusted to be placing the quality of laws written, and respect for the process, and the good of the country, above any specific political win, and for that I do not know if it would be sufficient for our humble committee to propose it. Perhaps if it passed through here and through Urban Order, with a membership all men of wisdom who took a specific vow not to use that committee for any petty games to discredit their rivals or favor their proposals."

"You might say that no one on any other committee could sit on that one, and they cannot propose anything of their own, including amendments, while they're on it. And ask for vows, but other than priests, paladins, and Hellknights, men who take their vows appropriately seriously are hard to identify."

"That's a possibility but I worry that any man sitting on no committees is just not that invested in the constitution. Perhaps we can find some who'd resign from theirs. I would be all right with the committee being composed entirely of priests and paladins but I do not know if that would be broadly popular."

"I could see the wisdom in a scheduling committee focused solely on process, and not on the results. But I think that investment in the outcome is more appropriate for wise rulership. 

I will discuss the proposal with Urban Order and see if that committee is willing to support it as well. I observe that we may not want to pass a resolution requiring proposals must be scheduled without specifying the process to schedule them, but perhaps we could confirm that this committee is in support before moving on much further."

"I want to start with an end to racing proposals to the floor and amending them on the fly. That'll produce a few days' hiatus in which we can negotiate a good scheduling solution."

Oh, it wasn't accidental that this would shut down the convention for a few days. On reflection, he's actually in favor of that. They'll be at the mercy of the archmage when it comes to putting their scheduling proposal ahead of whatever the fastest draw in the convention proposes, or they'll need to have it ready as an amendment. But if they have the votes to win their scheduling committee, they have the votes to kill a foolish one, he hopes.

“I’m all for ending the proposal races, but I think passing this without a scheduling arrangement is just moving the races earlier. I’m sure the one of the first things proposed if this passes will be some scheduling mechanism, whether we have agreed on one or not, and I’m not sure the convention will have the patience to vote down several poor mechanisms before considering whatever we negotiate.”

He’s also not sure Carlota or Jilia won’t take the chance to immediately propose some way of scheduling things that favors them. 

"Hmmm. How would you gentlemen feel about a proposal to let every man who chairs an existing committee, or has been elevated by Her Majesty to the rank of archduke, make one appointment to the scheduling committee, who must be Lawful and must pledge that in his work for that committee he will work only for the good of Cheliax? This would not suffice to make it truly impartial, but it ought to let it represent the range of concerns we're here to debate and prevent it from becoming another prize to fight over."

(For those keeping track at home, that means appointments would be made by the archdukes, Carlota, Cansellarion, Cerdanya, Coelearis, Bellumar, Ardiaca, Solandra, Espaillait, Vivas, Tallandria, Soler, Pichot i Bordas, Ramirez, Brighthelm, and Lestdemarc. This arrangement favors Carlota over the conservatives, but so does every other reasonable arrangement, because she stacked all the committees and is allied with all the archdukes.)

"Is the 'elevated to' bit meant to leave out the archduke of Menador?"

"No, sorry. We're in the very early stages of developing a proposal but I do not mean to slight any archdukes in the final draft of it - or, if we must, it should be because we're very confident it brokers a compromise that will improve confidence in the committee."

Vidal has to check his notes for that. Nineteen committees, three already chaired by archdukes, makes twenty two members. Many of which are aligned with Carlota, thanks to the radicalism of the first two days. Not very appealing at all, especially with an oath that entirely allows political machinations that one thinks are for the good of Cheliax. 

Not that any of those are very persuasive arguments against a reasonable-sounding proposal, because Carlota is frustratingly good at this. Maybe -

“I still” despite a few counterexamples “believe that most delegates believe they are working for the good of Cheliax, my disagreements with them being more on what we think is best for Cheliax. I think many on a committee with such broad influence would be swayed by their own beliefs, so I would prefer a more mechanistic solution.”

"I see the appeal of the committees, whose proposals must contest with each other for floor time, having an equal say in the scheduling," he grants, "but I wonder if we can devise some scheme to have it reflect the desires of the floor, whose attention we are spending with votes."

The mention of parties earlier makes him hesitant to suggest a repeat of how they repopulated the Judiciary committee, as it is too much like proposing that they form explicit factions. But he does have the sense that they are relatively advantaged by the floor settling questions like this, over the archdukes or backroom dealings.

"It is, after all, the floor that we are muzzling with this proposal, and they might not understand the ways in which one must move slowly and carefully to proceed swiftly to one's destination. I worry that some will see this as a vote to take three times as long with the convention, when judicious scheduling could both have it be concluded well and with sufficient breaks that we can tend to our responsibilities at home."

"This would also be a really large committee."

"Yes, if the general composition is right we still might want to then find a fair way to halve it or something. But we have to first have something that we can honestly tell the floor is going to be fair, and then we can work on the numbers.

....I agree that we want to ensure that the schedule is mindful of the needs of the floor. But I think it's important that it not be enslaved to it. Even if the people clamor very fervently for lions, that does not make them necessarily a reasonable high priority, and is all the more reason not to rush proposals related to them.

If you'd prefer a more mechanistic solution, though, I considered having delegates submit statements of interest in a proposal to the schedulers, and a matter being first on the schedule if it has the most expressions of interest from all four estates - so a proposal would benefit in scheduling from a broad base of support."

(This still benefits Carlota because she can line up the Reclamation for all her measures and the conservatives don't have many religious delegates and will have trouble bribing them.)

"I understand the president to dislike any proposals which view the estates differently, though of course this is not decisive, given the rule on committee membership requiring that no estate be left out." He has noticed how many of the people he has influence with are nobles, even if many of them are 'elected' in the eyes of the convention.

"I agree it would be a simple and understandable matter to order topics by a vote which could be held the previous day. But this assumes multiple provisions are already hitting the floor on the same day, and we must decide which happens first, and I imagine the most useful and formidable powers of this committee will be in choosing which day a proposal is to be considered on, and which amendments will be valid for that proposal or must be separate bills. I do not yet see a mechanistic way to prevent amendments from being added to bills without it being a vote on the amendment itself, or to delay a previously submitted bill to allow it consideration against a rival proposal submitted later, which we will need to truly put racing to bed."

"I agree that the scheduling committee will have to have the authority to decide those things, and cannot imagine any mechanistic guideline - other than banning amendments without the approval of the proposer - which would remove the significance of their judgment in that matter. Which means the committee has to be made up of men who we believe are sober, have good judgment, and can decide fairly and in the service of Cheliax. 

The archdukes are the men already chosen by the Queen for those qualities."

Hmm. It really is the simplest of the solutions before them; it just has the problem that the Hellcoast is vacant, Longmarch is as good as vacant, and Ravounel is often 'indisposed'. Sirmium's taste is questionable, Menador has outsourced all judgment to the church, and Molthune might well be the church soon enough. The Heartlands seems to be wise enough, so far, if not as ready for rulership as he would like.

"I note that the responsibilities of the archdukes, and thus the trust extended them by the Queen, vary significantly. Perhaps we should weight the strength of their votes by the number of counties they represent, and only require more votes in favor than opposed?"

Around a third of Cheliax's counties are in the Heartlands; it doesn't quite give him the ability to dictate things, but Blanxart would only need one other archduke to agree with him to settle any question in the committee, if Shawil isn't present. He is currently staying at Carlota's mansion, so this is less independence than he would like, but still seems less partial than other ways they could settle it.

Carlota doesn't particularly mind that because she trusts Blanxart and would be delighted for the principle of influence based on population density to be introduced, but she's not sure it'll pass the floor. She looks around the room to see what everyone else thinks of it. "I'd be perfectly happy with that, but I wonder, would our committee trust such a framework for rules and oversight of the convention?"

He’d be a lot happier about it if Blanxart hadn’t been so cravenly dishonorable about Voshrelka.

"I don't know that her majesty necessarily had her eye on how many subjects she was handing each one but I suppose I don't know that she didn't, either, sure."

"I am wary of the idea that we can judge a man's relative trustworthiness by the number of counties in his region. Under normal circumstances, this is determined by where he comes from, not by the Queen's judgement of his character. Direct appointments by the crown happened before the war, too, but when they were rarer, I think it was clearer that they are generally not preferable to a man who was raised to the particular position he occupies. More than anything, they are a sign of instability. The regions ruled by appointment on the eve of the war were the Hellcoast and Ravounel, and they were widely considered to be disastrously ruled. Those appointed were not from the regions in question, and did not understand them.

I do not mean to malign any of the appointed Archdukes we have. I think the Queen, in contrast to her predecessors, quite wisely elevated men from the regions in question, where she could. Bainilus rules Ravounel because she is from Kintargo, Narikopolus rules Menador because he is from Kantaria, and I understand that Blanxart rules the Heartlands because he is from Egorian. If the Queen trusted one more than another, she would still see much worse results from swapping them. We may be confident that the Queen places enormous trust in them, and that we can as well. But I don't think the number of counties in the region a man was born to is itself much evidence of character, and I am not eager to introduce more ranking systems."

.....there is no way to say this without it being transparently obviously about how Menador is the smallest Archduchy, but that doesn't mean he doesn't believe it.

.........this is also really completely unrelated to safe roads? But whatever.

"It was indeed a priority in the Queen's appointments to restore people to the lands they had a claim to. I do not think I would govern some other place as well as Chelam, where I grew up, where I remember what it can be. ...we could have each duke or above make an appointment to the scheduling committee, perhaps? That has some of the same effect without introducing an explicit ranking system. And it would involve buy-in from men known to be much at odds with one another, which would perhaps make the committee more credible."

"Ahh, a scheduling committee, is it now. But it just so happens that we already have a process for appointing committee members. Promulgated by you, in fact. Why not use it?"

"This committee is going to be gigantic all the ways you've proposed to slice it. Can't we consolidate somehow, if any three people who get to nominate someone can agree on a man then that man gets three votes on the committee or something like that?"

"Of course I was not speaking of trustworthiness," which could be insulting! " but rather how much has been placed in them. I apologize if my hasty speech gave you the wrong impression."

He angles towards Carlota.

"The dukes and above making an appointment each would give us an overlarge committee. That said, it may still be worth convening." If nothing else, it'll be a useful trial of that as a legislative body.

"That seems straightforward to make provisions for," she says to Raimon. And to Séfora, "It's particularly important that this committee's membership be trusted to be responsible. If an ordinary committee doesn't reflect the larger body or make good suggestions then their suggestions will simply lose in a vote; this one exercises power that isn't voted on, and so needs to be exceptionally well-composed from the start."

So that all delegates to the Constitutional Convention may have time to fully consider proposals and consult experts before voting:

All proposals shall be posted in writing three days before a floor debate on them is scheduled, unless it is the finding of the President, of Her Majesty, or of a unanimous vote of the archdukes of Cheliax that such an advance announcement poses serious risks to the stability and security of Cheliax. No floor debate and vote shall proceed on any proposal not posted for three days unless such a finding by the President, Her Majesty, or the archdukes is presented to the floor.

All amendments to a proposal shall be posted in writing two days before a floor debate on them is schedule. No amendment to a proposal will proceed to a vote if it has not been posted in writing for two days.

Amendments to a proposal must be accepted by the committee that approved the original proposal in order to be subject to a vote on the floor.

The timing of floor debates will be announced in writing and aloud at least one day in advance of the debate beginning. Where there are multiple measures under consideration for floor debate on the same day, the timing of the debates will be set by a committee on scheduling, with the following membership proposed:

"If we can get a membership list that meets broad approval I think it'll do a great deal to stop us from carelessly rushing laws."