If his stipend was several times higher, and the convention lasted a solid month… it would be a solid dent in his debt, if not decisive.  His pretty sure demanding more money is neither lawful nor good… maybe it’s Chaotic Good?  He remembers some Cayden pamphlets suggesting that?

Now how to pitch it to appeal to the floor?

'Give the sortitions more money' is a pretty compelling argument to sortitions. Let's see how everyone else reacts to this, though. Also, what, are the committees supposed to just do nothing until this new committee figures out some rules? Hmm...

She notices the blatant bribery, but lawless convention maneuvering actual does bother her…

She needs to simultaneously oppose it but present herself as a suitable religious delegate for membership of it.

Jordi likes being bribed. That’s a political opinion.

”I second the motion.”

s i g h

With what money? She's not a financial genius, but the convention salaries are already nearly enough to pay the wages for an entire brigade, and while it means more money for her she's not about to sell out the country for a few coins.

Dolor gets in line to speak, but hopefully this will get argued down before she even has a chance.

"Far be it from me to prevent the Convention from setting its rules, but I think the President ought to be the chair. He can abstain from votes if he likes, but he is the authority we have on what Forms are permissible for a constitutional convention, as he outlined this morning."

This will give Cotonnet headaches and make him look bad to the proles. Win-win.

The merchant wants to make Cotonnet chair.

If this random play by Lisandro’s delegate, trying to help get founded and then trying to get on a committee for blatant bribery, if this is how he gets in a room with the archmage… 

“I agree there has been irregularities in the convention’s organization.  This morning had a proposal rushed out of a pre-floor committee meeting, a new committee’s membership prefilled by the chair, and another new committee’s membership set by a last minute deal.  I have found the stipend plenty generous… for most purposes, so if this committee is formed for whatever the reason… with whatever the chair… choose me as the religious delegate to this committee to ensure it focuses on orderly Lawful rules for this convention’s organization and operation.”

She tried to give hints towards each potential faction’s interests, she’ll see if she succeeded at appealing to all of them or one of them or none of them.

"I am not opposed to the existence of a committee on forms and rules, but it would seem rather perverse if the convention were permitted to set the delegates' salaries. Besides, even if you do vote yourselves more money, I'm not sure Her Majesty has it to pay you; your stipends are already the third-largest single expense for the entire government of Cheliax after the army and the orphanages. That is, if you don't count the resurrections, which were mostly done for free." By the same archmage that's funding the rest of the government for free.

"I agree with the honored Archduke that the state flatly cannot bear to spend any more on this. Thousands of our countrymen are starving so that we may be well-paid to stand here debating. On the whole I think that forms and rules ought to be conceived, debated, and voted on by the whole body, as much as that can seem frustrating and a waste of time. They are extraordinarily impactful on the dynamics of debate, and while other committees may need in their work to hear testimony, invite specialized expertise, and spend time drafting, the rules of the convention should not be designed in secret from the convention."

Might get him a detente if he seconds Chelam, and he does actually agree. Sure, get in line.

Having failed to realize which side he was expected to take on censorship before it was too late to speak on it, he's not going to miss this opportunity to back up the people whose favor he can't afford to lose, especially when it doesn't even cost him anything. He gets in line.

As a member of Sortitions Trying To Say Sensible Things, Ruben goes to the podium.

"I don't need any more money. One gold crown a day is already generous. I'm going to tell everyone what I'm spending my stipend on. About three silver a day, on food and lodging and services, and that's with an orphan boy who I couldn't stand to leave once I saw him because a gold crown is generous. 'Bout a silver and a half a day on paper and ink and writing supplies. Things I need if I want to actually keep track of the convention. Saving the rest in case it's needed. I could make do with half that. I suspect a lot of you who aren't taking notes or hiring help could too. Where do you think that gold comes from? I'm no Abadaran but I know someone has to be taxed for it. You cannot get blood from a stone. Are we not supposed to be good now? Are we not supposed to reject Asmodeus? What could be more Asmodean than using the levers of power to give yourself wealth at the expense of a hundred people you'll never see, by taxing them and giving more money to ourselves? Or maybe the archmages are paying this out of pocket. Do you really want to badger an archmage for more money?" He clears his throat. "Ahem. My apologies, I'm a bit annoyed with all the thinking up clever reasons to do stupid, evil things."

Shit, the line is getting longer.  Fernando gets in line as well.  He’s figured out a loyal angle to play.  He can encourage the committee to moderation, while not blocking pay increases entirely.  It will put him in the side of Law and fiscal responsibility, while letting him still make a bit more money!  Of course, he needs to get on the committee in the first place to do so, which means appealing to the majority of the floor.

"The convention, as it stands, costs 10,000 GP a month. That's enough to pay the wages of an entire brigade, to guard the worldwound or patrol roads for bandits or to drive out the monsters in the woods; doubling it means taking thousands of soldiers who are even now keeping you safe from demons, and telling them that Cheliax doesn't need their services anymore. Doing it to enrich yourself is both anarchic and foolish."

"A great merchant pays his factors more than his laborers, because a factor's failure affects more than a laborers. The work of a factor is worth more. In this case, if we fail, the nation fails. Our worth is limitless. The nation cannot affort more today? Well, we merely wish to know that our loved ones will not starve after, when we're sent home. If we can get nothing else, I would like a pension for LIFE!"

The challenge here is supporting his allies without alienating the peasants, who of course have no reason to turn down additional pay merely because it would hurt Cheliax's finances.

"I agree that such a matter as the rules of procedure for the entire convention are too important to leave to a single backroom committee. Let any rules of procedure be debated openly, where Archmage Cotonnet may clarify any procedural rules we may have misunderstood. Such a matter should not be set by a handful of committee members who may not have the best interests of Cheliax or the convention at heart.

I also remind Honored Delegate Dolça that the rules of order approved last week do not allow for a delegate to nominate themself as chair. If this convention determines such a committee necessary, I nominate His Highness Archduke Blanxart as chair." If Blanxart is chair, he can simply choose reasonable people to staff the committee, assuming (as seems likely) that there's more interest than seats, and he expects most people to vote for an archduke over a whore.

"I would be honored to accept that nomination."

"I wish to Reserve the chairmanship, though not for myself, of course! It seems to me that Delegate Mont would be an excellent chairman!" (she winks at him)

"This may be a surprise to anyone who recalls myself and the Duchess of Chelam practically opening the convention with a dispute between us about the forms of the convention, but on this matter I agree with her. If we have rules get so complex we cannot easily vote on them without assistance, we could establish a committee, but if that happens we have made a mistake in allowing the rules to grow complex. And on the matter of paying delegates further, Mister Delegate Oriol is, I think, precisely correct. I like more money as well as the next man, but the stipend for elected and religious delegates is sufficient and generous."

"However, since we have compelled the sortition delegates to appear and remain, it is my understanding that Abadar's advice would be that we ought pay them more than generously, the freedom to choose your own work based on your own interests being sacred not just to Elysium but also to Aktun. If a narrow proposal along those lines was put forward to the general floor, personally I would support it."

Shit, he had something to say, but between Ruben and Theopho the mood has shifted against increasing delegate stipends.  And he needs to make sure he is showing his Good and Law off.  He’ll have to improvise some.

”uh… The rules have already gotten more complex, I barely followed the shifting compromises and changes this morning to rework the committees.  And somehow, both new committees have ended up with nobles in charge.  So, if we are to have another new committee, I nominate Delegate Ruben Oriol.  He’s aware of the Good and Law of it, so I think he would be a responsible choice.  And uh… he is a sortition delegate himself, so you can trust he’ll consider their due.”

Oh wait he needs to mention himself.

”And I would be honored to serve as an elected delegate in that committee with him.”

"We're doing important work here! If Cheliax is counting on us to make good laws, the least it can do is pay us what our time is worth! Don't listen to the nobles who want keep you poor, and don't listen to the man who wants to turn the elected and religious delegates against us - I second delegate Mont!"

He's not a peasant himself but his business has been struggling a bit lately, he could use some extra cash.

- how much is the state spending on orphanages? Figure that out later. Maybe ask Blanxart; he's on education, and that's what she needs to figure out funds for. More than ten thousand, apparently, but of course it is.

Would she love to never be poor again? Fuck yeah, she would. But she'd love to have a state that isn't contemptible and embarrassing, too.

"I agree with Delegate Oriol and Delegate Rado on the matter of convention stipends. You all know we are well-paid while our countrymen suffer. If picturing that brigade does not stir you, then picture the orphanage whose funds will be ransacked next. Do not picture one; picture enough to cover a city." A small city, anyway; she doesn't have a scratch paper to guess at the math with. "These orphanages are, right now, being funded at near starvation levels, for both staff and children, and children in them are dying right now, for lack of food and care."

"I arrived in Westcrown with no savings, and I am, yes, saving as much of the stipend as I can towards a future that I hope does not include more gnawing hunger. But if we fill our own stomachs by snatching food from children's mouths until they quite literally die, their blood will be on our hands. You will wish you had done otherwise when the Judge takes her accounts."

When did his goal stop being 'get rich'? Was it the Cafe? Damn, it was the Cafe, wasn't it? That's what convinced him everyone else is out to screw little guys over. 

Dangerous stuff, coffee.

"I accept being nominated to the chair, and by the delegate with the initiative to start this committee idea." (A wink to Dolca)

"Now I'm not going to say increasing salary is good or bad. I like money, but the arguments against it are strong too. So how about we set a room aside to have those arguments in. What's the word for when you do that... I'm just a sortition so I don't remember, but I think it started with a C."

"I don't think it's a good argument to stop a committee from being made just because you don't like what they might come up with. If you don't like it, vote against it, and if it's a bad idea then we all vote no and there's no problem. One good argument for not making the committee is that we should debate these rules on the floor, instead. That makes sense, except we're not allowed to do that? We can only vote for something if it went through a committee, but we can't form a committee on rules changes because they should be decided by the floor? I'm just a sortition so I don't know all the laws, but it doesn't make sense to me."

"Let's have the committee. Thank you."

Jordi steps away and immediately heads for the back of the line, in case he needs to reply to someone replying to what he said. 

s i g h

"Earlier the archmage told us people were being bribed for their votes last week. Now that we have secret ballots, we should re-vote on some of the proposals that got voted down. I say we vote right now on whether to permanently let all delegates out of being taxed forever, and if we're not allowed to vote on that now the Forms Committee should go propose we vote on it so we can."

yes yes yes yes yes yes yes

Oh for the love of - every noble in the realm is still sitting over there!

Yeah, we are! And this time I can vote for it without my archduke getting rid of me over it.

They couldn't even remember the second one, the one that covered non-nobles and their heirs?

It's going to pass this time. Republicanism will be discredited wholly and permanently and deservedly and they're not even going to end slavery first - no. It needs to go through a committee first. They will at least get slavery ended and then Republicanism will be conclusively demonstrated to be giving a bunch of toddlers torches with which to light their orphanage.

Way more of the nobles voted against that one! He was watching!

All right, to the line again. Absolute fucking -

"I don't see why we should care if this means less money for the orphanages," a sortitioned woman says contemptuosly. "You'd really rather give money to a little baby then have it for yourself?"

He stands up to get in line, sees that Korva is already going down there, and sits down again.

...This was not how she expected the convention to fail but in retrospect she would have predicted it if she had been less busy this morning. Her voice... No, some of the liberal nobles are already in line. They'll do this better.

She doesn’t want the country to be financially ruined, even if she and her abbey could weather it… maybe a tax exemption for just the sortitioned?  She’ll get in line also.  Oh wait Korva is getting in line just a bit ahead of her.

She wishes message was a cleric orison. Instead of it, she has to lean around a few people to whisper to Korva.

“I’ll propose the tax exemption only be for sortitions.  Do you think that will work?”

"Other three will vote it down, but you can try," she whispers back.

She kinda hoped the clerics would have more wisdom than that and the nobility be tied to the country’s success, but yeah…

“Maybe sortition and elected, but it ruins the rhetorical point I had as pretext to add elected.”

Jonatan is desperately trying to figure out if there are obvious paths to prevent the "bankrupt the country" proposals from passing. There have already been speeches about this very proposal suggesting that he's been engaging in improper procedural trickery; if he gets up to speak against this committee in particular, even if he's completely honest, it's as likely as not to backfire.

Is there something else he could say? He could offer to pay for legitimate expenses, if there are sortitionates who are somehow genuinely unable to do so, but that just incentivizes more attempts of this nature. He could attempt to feed his allies lines about what Heaven has to say about enriching oneself at the expense of others, but he doesn't think there's anyone who doesn't understand that, they just lack the virtue to care. 

He could try to sign up for the committee, and vote down anything that would be ruinous? That only works if the chair is sensible — so, not Mont, and he'd prefer the Archduke to Oriol, but it can't hurt to try.

"If you're gonna do it, just Sortition with good rhetoric; the others might be willing to buy them off in particular. Worth the try, I guess."

“Thanks for the advice.  Yeah, worth a try I figure.”

And now she goes to thinking of her speech.  She needs to get better at this.  Maybe she should try reading foreign poetry, it seemed to have worked for Korva.

Does the president think voting by head was a mistake, yet?

This again? They've already done this debate and everyone voted. Why are they going over something they've already decided on, just because it's been a week? Do these people have no care for the reliability of their laws? (Trick question: they don't, and she knows this already.)

"It is a Vexing Absurdity that only now, when the Most Venal Delegates desire to Enrich Themselves at the Public Expense, is any Concern for Rules Evinced, when at Earlier Times the assembled were Quite Happy to let this Anarchy continue."

"It is as Ever the Case that Rules and Procedures are Despised and Roundly Mocked! But only until that Time arrives when, sorely feeling their Lack, those harmed Cry Out, 'where then were the Rules?' Why, they are where you have Left them; they are Forgotten, Trampled Upon, and one can Scarcely Read Them for the Amount of Mud applied by the Crude Brushes that are the Boots of Six Hundred Delegates."

"But, alas! Rather than Careful Drafting at the Outset, this Convention has seen fit to Invent Rules as it Goes Along, scurrying to Plug the Previous Hole in the Great Bucket of Debate while the Ever-Drilling Auger of Chaos has Moved to the Next Outrage."

"I thank the Duchess of Chelam for, having seen the Anarchy of Insufficient Rules, changing her earlier Position. She is Entirely Correct; Rules of the General Floor are the Concern of the General Floor. If there is to be a Committee on Rules then it must by All Rights be the Committee of the Whole, numbering All Delegates, but such a Procedural Fiction is not to my mind a Necessity."

"Only if a Committee sets Rules within its own Meetings is the Membership of a Single Committee sufficient for the Task."

"Though earlier Spurned I bear no Grudge, and would happily once again Lend my own Careful Drafting and Diligent Labor to the task of Rules both Simple and Orderly. First if not Chiefly among them I would propose that No Measure relating to the Stipend of Delegates, or Abridging the Taxes, Fees, or Duties for which Delegates are Liable, may have Effect on any Delegate Eligible to Vote on said Measure."

Her earlier rules proposal being insufficient to re-propose, alas, because it assumes a President who is actively engaged in the floor debate, of course, rather than only being roused to arbitrarily ban dueling. The floor needs more dueling, not less.

He'll applaud at Lluïsa's proposed rule.

He'll boo. The whole point of changing the rules is to give them money, not whatever poor saps they kidnap in forty years!

(Victòria had totally been planning on voting for the committee to give delegates more money — sending letters to Valia is going to cost about a third of her stipend — but she hadn't really been thinking about where the money would come from. Korva has a good point, she doesn't want orphans to starve just so she can have more money to spend. Probably Lluïsa's idea would make it so that doesn't happen, she thinks? She's not sure, she hasn't thought about it that much, but it sounds like a good idea. Clap clap clap.)

Is Lluisa really that naive to think anyone wants Laws simply out of lawfulness?  The nobles favored sloppy rules because it advantaged them with their better organization.  Now that the nobles are divided and the sloppy rules are about to let through proposals that would financially ruin the country they want rules.  Law is kinda fake, it really just comes down to power.

Also, if Thea remembered and explained to Dia day 1 correctly, Lluisa’s rules relied heavily on the president, who seems to be committed to nonintervention save for outright calls for death of other delegates, so her rules wouldn’t have actually helped that much.

She politely applauds at Lluisa’s speech anyway, she’s aware of where the factional lines are forming.

This is a really long line! He can at least clap at Lluisa's speech while he's in line!

He's not mad, just disappointed. 

"I'm afraid that if you keep raising votes on settled issues, we'll be here until the end of time and then some. Votes on new business only.

And as a practical matter – delegate stipends aren't, at the moment, a matter of law, but of what my wife and I are willing to spend. It is very important to me that all of you are adequately compensated for the work you do here, but my purse is not infinite." 

Oh thank the Good gods. And Good Archmages. 

The Archmage didn’t exactly define how much variation is required for it to be “new business”.  If people keep pushing variants of no taxes, she’ll bring up her idea of a compromise, but otherwise she’ll let it drop.  She doesn’t get out of line though, there might be some new line of argument to build on or counteract by the time she gets a chance to speak.

Oh no how is he next after the wizard. Not his wizard, the wizard. The one his wizard sometimes talks about the way soldiers talk about Cyprian. 

Jordi gives his wizard a look pleading for a message about what to say. But no message spell comes. He’s on his own for this maneuver. 

“On behalf of the sortitions, we all appreciate the generosity.”

If they can’t vote for no taxes or for more stipends, Jordi doesn’t see the point. But he can’t say he doesn’t want to be on the committee anymore. Not without letting down his two-person caucus. 

“I still think we should vote to make a committee for convention rules. Not everyone wants to watch all this arguing, and the other committees are waiting for their turn to present their ideas.”

Then, with a smile in the direction of the sortition quarter, “There’s lots of things that could help all of us delegates, that haven’t already been proposed before.”

"I appreciate the generosity of Archmage Cotonnet and have no wish to impose on him," he says, "but the truth is, Jordi Mont is right. We should have a committee for convention rules. But I think we should give it to someone who all of us following the convention know is a sensible man - I'm not calling for a noble! Archduke Blanxart would be a fine choice, but I'll admit we've our fair share and more of committee seats, and while I think he's eminently qualified for the post I can understand why some people wouldn't be happy giving the title to a nobleman. No, I support Delegate Reuben Oriol, a strong worshipper of Erastil and faithful countryman, and formally second his nomination." Because he's the less noble guy who might be able to make it.

"And I strongly recommend that he should have the good sense and legal knowledge of Delegate Lluisa Oriol to support him, who we all know - and as we've just seen - is a woman who knows the laws and is unafraid to stand up for them whoever she offends, and therefore nominate her to the committee, provided Delegate Reuben Oriol is willing to accept her." So there will be someone who knows the laws on the committee.

"I personally consider this committee superfluous," Xavier says, looking down on the population, "with all due respect to Count Ardiaca, since our President has now taken the work wholly in hand. But I agree that if it should be constituted, the Delegates Oriol would be fine representatives for the committee."

What a disaster. Thank the gods the archmage has some sense.

so how the fuck are they supposed to vote, then??? aaaaaa

This name collision sure is weird, though probably he was just as blonde as her in his youth. Anyway, he's a decent sort.

Does he have to? Well, arguably this is what he wanted in the first place. A chance to prevent more shenanigans.

She gets out of line. She had a good line about how voting to end taxation is like voting to cut out your own heart in order to eat it, because all the sortitions (except, ironically, Dolça) will literally starve without stipends, but apparently those aren't paid for by taxes anyway.

Hey, some of them were only skirting the edge of literally starving without stipends.

With the bigger issue of the country’s finances set aside, Thea has been trying to think what else she should speak for… she needs to figure out what will get her placed on the committee.  Will it be Oriol or a floor vote deciding this committee’s membership?  

She has only a vague idea by the time it is her turn to speak, but maybe she can leave her idea vague?

“Delegate Oriol asked practical questions in his floor speech earlier this morning in the discussion over censorship, and has raised practical concerns again in this discussion.  I think, although delegate finances are generous, there may be other forms of support useful to delegates in carrying out this convention business such as the committee transcripts now to be provided, and if I am selected for the committee with him, I will see that we consider them properly to present the floor with a proposal or recommend to the Archmage.”

"I am of course sympathetic to the talk of costs thrown around earlier - I for one have no desire to beggar Cheliax, and I am sure that most of this convention feels similarly. But as the archmage said, if as delegates we are expected to go about important work here, I think it behooves us to make a committee that will ensure the proper benefits accrue to those doing their parts - both during the convention and after. There are a number of possibilities beyond the monetary we should consider."

In other words, let's pass this committee and get lots of benefits. Also put me on the committee please, I'm saying what you're all thinking!

“Don’t vote for the proposal to give all delegates committee transcripts. It’s a trap! They just made sharing notes illegal.”

One may imagine that at this point the archmage, whose author is very busy, provides some clarification.

Relying on favorable reinterpretation of the law by the Archmage feels fraught, if he doesn’t intervene next time it could leave the delegates open to a trap.  (Was this time a trap or an honest oversight?)

This is why a Forms of the Convention committee is needed to protect the delegates.  Thea is back to wanting to propose blanket immunity for convention activity… she’s uncertain how that will interact with the Archmage’s statement that the “laws of the Cheliax are the laws of the convention” or whatever it was he said this morning.

The Convention is declared private and therefore the sharing of notes within it is fine. 

"The first thing the Forms Committee should do is vote for an end to the secret ballots! We all know they're just an excuse for the Galtan to declare the outcome of every vote to be whatever he wants. If he's going to push through all this ridiculous nonsense, it's not like we can stop him, but we shouldn't let him ascribe it to us."

The votes were much more controllable before the secret ballots. She'll vote for that one if it's brought to the floor. Secretly.

He assumes the Archmage and Queen will know the votes either way, the secret vote is to prevent cheating off other people, and he thinks he can do better fairly than by cheating.

Jilia is with Carlota on this one. She's theoretically all for democratic expression, and this is incredibly unprincipled. But one thing you get by aspiring to Elysium rather than Heaven is you can do totally unprincipled things that break your stated values if you think the results will be better. And she trusts 'follow the paladins and archdukes' to make the votes come out more her way.

(You can also do this while aspiring to Heaven if you're just kind of bad at aspiring to Heaven!)

The line is getting shorter, so Thea doesn’t have to wait as long to speak again.  It would come to a vote soon enough anyway, but she’s worried someone’s going to come up with another bribe to vote on that will actually win the floor vote.  So she’ll call for cloture.

“Specific ideas such as secret ballots can be discussed in the Forms of the Convention committee.  There are many important matters to discuss and it seems likely the floor will run late.  I call for a vote to cloture so that we may vote on the creation of such a committee and vote on the chair of the committee.”

Cloture vote passes.


Vote on the creation of the committee?

Yes, obviously. This is gonna be great!

In favor.

She’ll have to put her ideas directly to the floor if this doesn’t pass.

Oriol was against it, even if he got nominated as chair.

Against.

Against, but Lluïsa plans to join and rule any such committee that ends up existing so that it will be about rules, not insane avarice.

Another committee is another chance to show his loyalty.

In favor.

Against, though if they give it to the right people it'll probably merely be useless and not destroy the country.

In favor! Maybe he won't be able to get a wage increase, but that's fine, there's plenty of monetary compensation on the table for the people who make the rules.

Against. Korva had some good points.

They might not be allowed to vote on the exact same no taxes proposal, but there's probably some kind they can vote on! In favor!

Definitely not.

What? No. He doesn't support it, he just thinks that if it gets organized someone who doesn't suck should be chair.

This is an attempt to indulge in sinful, selfish greed. No.

There is no justification for this whatsoever other than the President's failings, and he has now started failing less.

Short of selecting people out of a jail cell, Aspexia-Isona would not expect there to be any method of picking a new aristocracy for the nation worse than sortition. No.

Sounds good. More money's always nice.

He's aware that nobody believes him about this, but he is not actually trying to destroy the convention. No.

It's not that it isn't tempting, but the chance of someone finding out he voted for it is too high. Against.

Against, of course.

In favor! Not that it matters, the archmage will just declare the result he wants no matter how anyone voted.

They already got the right answer last week. Against.

More money sounds great. In favor.

Of course not, not with the rabble trying to run it.

It's tempting to destroy the convention and the country out of spite for Cotonnet but it would be wrong. More than that it'd be Valia Wain's mistake. They should see all the guilty die traitor's deaths and then stop there, not just destroy everything. 

Against.

We've just seen what the mob does when it gets power. Those two who proposed this nonsense should be flayed as a lesson to the others. No.

In favor, obviously.

No. Power to the commons, perhaps, but there are limits.

No, if it's not going to inconvenience Cotonnet it will just give money to idiots who don't know how to work any more complicated system. He'll join, though.

In favor. It'd be a problem if the rabble control it, of course, but the nobles on the committee can hold it hostage against that; he'll make sure to talk to whoever it is to ensure that doesn't slip by them.

Against. They'll do something to cripple Cheliax's finances, that's for sure.

In favor. If it damns him, well, it might save his people.

No. Oriol and Oriol is a fine place to start, but to start on something that doesn't need to be done.

You don't become a successfull businessman without seizing every possible advantage. In favor.

Yes. It won't pass and they'll stop it from ruining the country if it did, but the closer the vote is the more support they'll have for kicking out the rabble.

Against. It will perhaps generate some good ideas, but it will waste the floor's time with a lot of rubbish.

No. It's anarchic as well as stupid.

Yes. Why would anyone not vote for this?

For! Shake things up, bring on the crazy ideas, there'll be an angle.

This is why you never give the rabble a say, they try to do shit like this. Against.

A committee to make rules for the convention? Sounds more like a committee to pull Mephistophelean tricks on the convention to him. Against.

What did the clever Cicerone call it? 'Anti-competitive'? This seems like that, sort of, maybe. No.

If this was actually a terrible idea the Archduchess would have said something, she's sounded decent this past week and he heard mostly good things from down city way. Most of these nobles are selfish gits anyway. Yes.

In favor. Nobody's ever put random people in charge of a country before, think of all the original research he could do!

Why are they wasting even more time on arguments nobody cares about? She doesn't even care enough about this nonsense to have an opinion, abstain.

Against. Come the fuck on, guys.

Against - allowing this stupid popular ruin is why disempowering the nobles is such a bad idea.

Fails 234 - 249.

Damn, that was close. He'd've probably voted for it if he thought it might make a difference either way.

If he's slightly smug, well, who wouldn't be slightly smug having voted down the bill? Defend that result, radicals, why don't you.

The crisis of the avariciously deranged attempting to take over the rules, averted; the crisis of insufficient rules, still pending.

Lluïsa is however relieved. If she had had to sit on a committee full of the Avaricious Elected, her only recourse against their insane proposals would be denouncing the committee tomorrow on the floor as concerned only with personal enrichment and not rules.

Which is now slander. Maybe Lluïsa is more important than them but probably not; the Archmage's pro-nobility finger on the scale is not for her. Lluïsa incandescently hates the slander law, its proponents, the President, and likely some other things as well. But silently and undetectably.

The danger is that now there is no procedural mechanism to stop avaricious proposals from being introduced directly to the floor.  The committee would have acted as an excuse to channel them away were they could be snuffed out safely.

Her simplest proposal she can introduce directly to the floor but some more complicated ideas she has started to develop could actually use some committee discussion.  Thinking about it... the ideas are actually a fit for virtuous churches.  And that committee is proven reliable.  Okay, this is salvageable.  

He wanted another committee to show his loyalty on...  Well, he's not any worse off, he still has monarchy and his constitution he's written to make a positive impression!