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A Tale of Two Hells
Demon Edie and Demon Cam in Milliways
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Edie was perusing the latest correspondence from her fork. She still should have been paying enough attention to realize that the door didn't go where it ought before it swung shut and she couldn't sense anyone else anymore, but she wasn't.

After opening and closing the door a couple times to make sure she hadn't just been abducted somehow, she looks around.

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It is a bar! An empty, clean bar. With supernovae out the window.

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Well that does appear to be a thing. She can't think off the top of her head how daeva could make actual supernovae, so it's...probably...not Enemy action.

It doesn't take long before her poking around takes her near the bar.

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Hello. Can I get you anything? First drink is free.

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"I can create arbitrary objects. I would like an explanation, please."

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Of course. And the bar summarizes the bar. Also, drinks need not be anything you've previously heard of.

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"I'll take a recommendation of something I've never heard of and am not likely to, then."

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And the bar presents her with a swirly blue glass full of fizzy green juice. It has a festive umbrella.

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And in walks another demon. Wings, tail, no other accessories; one of the phenotypes more plausibly an ex-summoner.

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She looks him up and down. "Hi. This as weird for you as for me? I have some explanations written on napkins."

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"...yeah, this is weird. Napkins?"

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She hands him the explanation napkins.

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They're so explanatory.

"...so you a demon or a coincidence?"

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"Being a demon is less coincidental?"

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"It makes you looking like one less of a coincidence. Not so much us being here simultaneously." He plops down at the bar, tail lashing, accepts a drink recommendation, gets something that looks like it's coffee-themed.

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"Well, I'm totally a demon. You an ex-summoner too? You kinda look it."

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"Yeah."

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"Cool. When'd you die?

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"2009. You?"

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"2030. Huh, that's--just barely post-Revelation."

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"Yeah, by a couple years."

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"Good thing you didn't kick it just a little earlier, I guess. I mean, unless you would've chosen to be a Limboite in order to be in the same dimension as loved ones reliably given full disclosure, in which case condolences."

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"Nah, I wouldn't have done that."

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"I probably wouldn't've either, but I'd have thought about it. I have a twin. She's an angel."

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"Sounds inconvenient. At least you've got one-way communication."

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"There is that. And I've got a great long-term summon going, no gag and I'm the easiest-to-pay demon ever--well, probably not, but it's hard to find ones like me if you've got gags on! So I can see her regularly, for now."

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"That's lucky, good for you. Takes forever to find summoners who don't gag their demons."

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"Yeah, I'd seen her before since we died but it was always someone she'd talked into summoning me, not vice-versa."

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"I'm not well-acquainted with any angels or fairies, no such luck."

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"Well, if you're not well-acquainted with any why would you want that as an intangible in the first place?"

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"Could've gotten them to ask someone to summon me and let me have a phone to call my parents before they died."

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"Oh. Yeah. My parents are Limboites too. That would have been nice."

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"Yeah. Mine got good things, though."

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"Oh?"

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"House, RV."

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"My dad got a library and my mom got a tree."

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"Kinda tree?"

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"Oak. Grew in the backyard of her childhood home, great for a kid to climb on. I think people make acorn flour from it."

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Nod. "My dad's kinda annoyed by the social obligation to have houseguests and clear his fridge out twice a day and have the water running all the time but he copes."

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"People make little acorn cakes with the flour and the water from the bathrooms of the library and I think a couple of other things. I've tried 'em, they're okay, but I wouldn't wanna eat nothing else."

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"The library's a really good thing, especially if it has a librarian breakroom or something in it."

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"There is but it only has a little bit--coffee and common additives, I think some of those go in the cakes, and, like, one sandwich, it's not even competitive with the acorn cakes most of the time."

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"Oh, are they near each other, that's amazingly lucky."

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"I know. Sometimes I wonder if it's because Dad died first and he was really the one thing Mama would have found an afterlife incomplete without."

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"That'd be sweet."

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"It would! I have no idea if it's realistic, though."

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"Probably not. Somebody'd have noticed if it were much more than chance, I think."

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"Yeah. I'm glad they got lucky, though. Both in that and having summoner daughters."

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"Yeah, care packages are a big deal in Limbo."

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"Yeah, no kidding. It's a pity Concordances are so limited. And so one-sixth clogged by futile racists."

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"Futile racism is very annoying."

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"Though not nearly as annoying as the non-futile kind, granted."

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"Yeah. Pity the futile racists can't just have LARPs on their own time without crowding the concordance for peaceful postal service daeva."

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"It's really annoying that I have to route my letters to my sister through Limbo and Fairyland!"

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"I've played with ideas for getting the futile racists out of the way long enough to establish a different precedent but haven't got anywhere, doesn't help that I don't have anyone on the Heaven side to coordinate with."

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"...Well, I do. We should correspond."

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"Sure. I'm Cam, nobody spams 'letter to Cam' yet."

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"Edie. Although, ah--what languages do you speak? There's this asshole I think is conjuring my mail, so I've got this code worked out..."

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"Lots -" He picks his computer off his belt, calls up a list.

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"Oh, that's convenient, I also speak most of those. Got summoned by some linguists to teach 'em demon languages."

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"Huh, I got summoned by some linguists once, but they kept me gagged and just had me confirm translations."

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"Sucks. Was that before or after your parents moved to Limbo?"

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"Before her, after him."

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"Definitely sorrier than baseline you were gagged for that one."

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"Yeah. Picked up a lot of languages from the linguists though."

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"They're convenient like that!"

She explains the code. It's vaguely Feanaroish in style.

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Which Cam does not recognize since his Fëanáro has just been using the one-time pad. "Clever," he remarks anyway.

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"Thanks. It was actually mostly my current summoner's father who came up with it."

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"He's a cryptographer or something?"

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"He's a something, that's for sure," she snorts.

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"Hm?"

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"He's lotsa kinds of genius. He speaks enough languages for the code to work with him, he invents like Da Vinci on the best stimulants known to Man or Daeva..."

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"Nice."

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"And he learns languages like a child in a candyshop, it's adorable."

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"Yeah some people just really like 'em. I've been doing machine translation to patch what I didn't get with my summon, I don't pick up languages that fast the long way."

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"Oh, I've just been patching that with getting dismissed and re-summoned."

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"Nice if you can arrange it, yeah."

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"Why can't you?"

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"I guess I could now but the need to talk to people has diminished recently."

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"Sounds like a story."

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"It is a long story."

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"Well, time's apparently paused on the other side of the door."

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"You really wanna know?"

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"Yeah."

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"Short version, I'm on summon to a world where summoning does not otherwise work. Could be dismissed, can't be resummoned. My summoner's in hiding because somebody might kill them to get to me. There was a war. I ended it."

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"...Huh. If summoning doesn't otherwise work then how...?"

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"Not sure, I may've been a fluke."

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"Well, I'm on a summon to another world where it works pretty damn reliably, to the point where someone invented trans-world summoning just to make demons easier to pay. Got any advice on war-ending? It'd be pretty useful."

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"Not especially. Circumstances unlikely to match. What's your world like?"

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"Well, millions of years ago there was a sentient species that looks like lizard-kangaroos, and now they're extinct outside the daeva realms and limbo, except for fifteen catatonic summoners that have been kept around all this time."

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"...wow, okay. That's gonna be fun for the library of Hell curators."

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"Currently there are, as far as I can tell, three inhabited planets. One of which is also Earth, for some reason, complete with humanity. And one of the catatonic summoners--the one of the worst of the lot, the one we're trying to evacuate people away from--is inside the Earth, surrounded by explosives rigged to destroy the planet if the setup is messed with or the summoner dies."

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"...duplicate Earth? What the fuck?"

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"I don't know."

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"Circa when?"

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"Which, it existing or containing a catatonic summoner?"

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"I mean what's the calendar year on the Earth."

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Pretty close to the one on theirs, but not exact.

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"They have their own Revelation?"

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"Yeah, why?"

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"I'm Revelation."

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She considers this.

"That's a kind of a bold claim but I can't immediately figure out what you'd get out of lying about it if it weren't true--that you currently know, anyway--and things are weird and coincidental enough already to make it more plausible than otherwise."

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"I don't usually tell people."

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"...Is that what got you killed."

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"I taught summoning for a bit and I think one of the daeva I summoned identified me to some guy with economic interests in secrecy and he walked right into my classroom and shot me in the head."

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"That's awful and I'm really sorry it happened to you."

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"Well, then I got to be a demon."

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"Woulda been a demon if you had died less unpleasantly too."

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"Yeah. Well. It was fast."

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"There is that."

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"Anyway, your Earth is slightly earlier than mine - ours, if we're from the same one - so there might be another me, but I'm not sure what that nets you."

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"Well, I actually went there while trying to figure out the summoner problem, and met a living summoner with my same surname and parents with names identical to mine who...was basically like a mishmash of my sister and I in a lot of ways."

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"...huh. I'm not sure whether to expect you have a me or a variant of me or what then."

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"Yeah, the whole thing is really weird and I've been more worried about evacuating the planet the evil demon's on than figuring shit out."

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"Reasonable."

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"If we did think of a way to get racist daeva out of Heaven/Hell concordances maybe I could use it on Melkor, that'd be something," she snorts.

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"Melkor?"

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"The demon whose summoner's buried in the Earth and whose planet we're trying to evacuate," she clarifies.

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"Okay, maybe this is a coincidence but my war involved a guy named Melkor. He's not a demon though, he's a sorta magic thing."

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"Huh. Probably made communication less of a pain, he's the asshole I'm protecting my mail against."

 

 

"...The other fourteen loose lizard-kangaroo daeva call themselves the Valar."

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"The other fourteen sorta magic things called themselves that."

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"My summoner's genius father's name is Feanaro."

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"I know one of those."

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"This is bizarre."

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"No kidding."

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"If you ever get information from the universe I'm summoned to, you should just know ahead of time that I did not kill anyone, the Valar lied about that."

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"...Okay."

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"Maitimo summoned me to make light-leapers, we went down to the planet--I had to go with him, they have laws about the bindings you have to put on daeva and one of 'em's 'stay within a certain distance of your summoner at all times'--and the Valar said no one was allowed to leave so we all made for Alqualonde, which is a spaceport. They'd have alerted the Valar if we let them. Maitimo extracted a reasonable set of oaths from me and snapped my binding. I put the population of Alqualonde to sleep. The Valar found out and showed up anyway and killed a bunch of people trying to get me sent back to Hell and the remaining Noldor prevented from leaving, then claimed that I'd killed everyone, except my summoner who they'd obviously had to kill to stop me."

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"You chipped yourself to do oaths?"

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"Chipped myself to do telepathy, found out about the oaths after."

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"Can your Valar do oaths? In a way you could really, really count on."

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"I reeeeally doubt it. I don't think they're even chipped, let alone chipped and then sworn not to ever let the oath-enforcing function of the chips be interfered with."

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"Okay, then I continue to not have war-ending suggestions."

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"Do you have suggestions for getting a bomb out of the earth?"

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"How hair-trigger is it? Could you dig down a ways, surround it with keratin attached to you, and set it off?"

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"Ooh, good question. So far our best idea was to get enough trustworthy daeva to split the earth in half minus a sphere around the thing, get it out and far away, fill in the hole with appropriate matter, put the planet back together and set it back in its correct orbit."

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"...yeah that sounds like a disaster. Surrounding it and blowing it up sounds like a potential disaster - if it's a planetbuster but shaped it could knock your whole keratin bubble in one direction and wobble the planet - do you have enough time to try a dummy version? Sounds like there's not room for it in Milliways."

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"We think Melkor doesn't know we know yet."

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"So you could make a model of it, try bubble-and-boom, see if everything on the surface is still standing."

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"Yeah, that's how we found out it won't stand up to angelic interference."

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"That's impressive, does that hold if you have lots of angels at once?"

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"Haven't tested that."

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"If you had enough angels they might be able to work simultaneously enough - but that seems difficult, fingernail thing's easier if it works."

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She conjures a model of Earth about the size of a beachball. She tries growing keratin into it. It explodes in her face.

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"Yikes. Maybe if you did it farther out? He can't have made it so it explodes if any plausible stuff happens on the crust, he doesn't want it exploded and people are going to drain aquifers and mine diamonds, continents are going to drift..."

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She tries again. It explodes again.

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"What does the bomb mechanism alone look like? If it just blows up if you try it maybe there were blueprints once?"

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She conjures the plans.

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Cam peers at them to figure out what they can sense and where and how sensitively.

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"A lot" and "very sensitively" respectively, apparently. Theoretically the keratin-bubble could at least sort of work but the charge is shaped.

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"Shaped charge. Well damn."

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"If you have any ideas for evacuating--getting the people on Endore off it, or convincing humans to get off Earth so we can kill the summoner--I'd be overjoyed to hear them."

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"Endorë's probably the easier target on convincing people but will, if your Melkor's like mine, be very hard to interfere with without catastrophic risk and escalation... Does the bomb react to the summoner's death? If you could figure out via model precisely where they are, a demon could kill them without having to dig so much as a well."

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She checks. "It does."

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"Ugh. - Are the lizard-kangaroos chipped?"

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"Nope. And humans who aren't daeva can't be, it kills them, so I'm not confident that's changeable."

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"If you could chip the lizard-kangaroo there's something that might work."

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"The summoner or Melkor? Because it worked on me just fine."

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"The summoner."

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"Well, like I said, lethal to non-daeva humans. What good would it do if it worked?"

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"I have been very careful about leaking some information to Hell for reasons, but this is kinda high-stakes. You good to keep infosec on it?"

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"Shan't say a word to my own fork on it if you ask me not to."

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"You have a fork? How'd you do that?"

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"If a daeva chips themself the chip copies down their brain well enough that if you go back to Hell where Mandos doesn't get backups, dig the chip out, and make an Elf body around it--that's how I found out it doesn't work for mortal humans--you can fork yourself. And if they summon something and die they daeva-fy just fine."

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"Okay. So. Secrets time. The inability to make minds is not absolute."

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"You have my undivided attention!"

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"If you make a chip the data is all there. It just magically doesn't work. But if you copy it - not with demon powers, just, you need a chip reading thing - and print it onto a blank - that works. If you can chip and fork the summoner the fork might be able to dismiss Melkor. I don't know if this would work."

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"...Well. I'd want to try it on some other kangaroo-lizard first, since, if I try chipping the summoner and it kills them..."

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"Yeah, exactly. And you would also have to be able to place a chip correctly without going deep enough to trigger the bomb."

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"Even if that doesn't work, if I can finagle it right, this could be invaluable in saving Elf lives. Maitimo is alive because I happened to grab him before a Vala killed him and managed to drag what was left of his body back to Hell with me, which included his intact chip. Making me the first demon ever to actually steal someone's soul."

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"Yeah.

Won't do anything for the humans or Dwarves on Endorë though."

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"There aren't any humans on Endore."

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"Aren't there? There were some, very new, when I arrived. Like, weeks old, orcs were teaching them to write. I guess maybe if your Valar are daeva your Eru can't just casually install species with lousy timing."

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"There's tree-people, though. Who's Eru?"

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"I haven't met the guy but reportedly he is to Valar as Valar are to Maiar - do you have Maiar?"

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"...Maybe?"

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"Valar are big magic things, Maiar are a range of smaller magic things, and Eru is, like, God. Elves claim to be a created species, humans-on-Endorë certainly look like they are, I didn't meet any tree people, Dwarves are great though have you met any Dwarves they kind of shot me a lot but I don't hold that against them there were signs posted and everything..."

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"Ada may have. I haven't been to the surface of Endore, personally."

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"Ada's your fork?"

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"Yep. We decided to take advantage of the fact that of necessity the forks look like Elves."

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"Makes sense. What's she working on while you try to route around the Earth being rigged to blow?"

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"Figuring out more about what exactly Melkor is up to."

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"Mine was having a deceptively low-tech war because if he escalated too much the Valar would have gotten off their asses. - I should give you the design for the chip-melting suicide things, I assume being caught by your Melkor is bad even if it's not as bad as being caught by mine."

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"Yeah, probably a good idea. What happened if you were caught by your Melkor?"

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"Destructive uploading, arbitrary number of forks sped up arbitrarily much, horrifying torture." He rummages in his files and de-chiplocks the plans for the thing. "Computer lock chips work on my Elves, you might want to double check for yours."

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"That sounds like a good idea. How do I check if my Melkor is doing that."

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"Mine was not particularly secretive about it, for psychological warfare reasons, but if the Elves on Endorë don't know about it it's possible yours isn't, you could conjure up his servers and look them over or something..."

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"Yeah, probably a good idea. I think I'm going to try that now in the backyard, wanna come?"

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"Sure, I'm planning on abusing the fuck out of this time-pausing feature anyway."

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Backyard. And Edie conjures--any servers that Melkor is using to torture people.

 

 

"Oops," she says, as the entire spatially available backyard fills with computer, and then, "Fuck."

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"Yyyyyep."

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"Well now I guess I get to explain to Aegnor that it is in fact worth it to evacuate the Earth."

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"Worth it yes, feasible to do, not necessarily."

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"Yeah. Argh."

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"You could publicize on Earth that ex-summoners get to be daeva, give them a bit, and blow the place."

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"The fact that the lizard-kangaroo-fairy who wasn't even an ex-summoner was pretty zen about the extinction event several million years ago does not make me thrilled with the prospect."

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"Yeah."

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"I'm going to want to explore a lot more of option-space before I go with the one that irrevocably sunders families."

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Nod.

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"Especially with Milliways time-stopping meaning no one's getting tortured while I dither."

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"Yeah, that's a perk."

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"So what horrific choice did you have to make."

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"Well. My Valar are magic things. They're not immune to black holes unless they get warning. And Melkor really, really wanted them all dead and he can swear oaths and I can verify oaths.

And I can bring the Elves back - that's what pushed it -

The Maiar and Valar weren't chipped though."

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"What the hell did you get him to swear."

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Cam hands her the text of it.

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"Wow," she says, looking it over.

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"Worked. He's been quiet as a mouse. There's peace treaties underway between all the incarnate political units - they're rebuilding - I got the binary star system right on the first try and haven't done anything but put chips through a read-write machine and make bodies around them in months -"

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"Want some help?"

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"You'd have to come back to my New Valinor and my understanding is this would lose you the door to here."

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"Unless I'm badly mistaken, Mandos can't reach this place."

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"You're offering to send a fork of yourself back with me?"

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"I'm probably going to need to fork more anyway. We should confirm we're from the same Hell, first, or at least that she'll be able to fork my twin once she's demonified."

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"...okay, we could check our indices of mail sent to Fairyland in the last concordance and see if we're both on it, me writing my parents and you writing your sister?"

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"Sounds about right."

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Cam searches his.

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They do in fact appear to be from the same Hell.

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"Okay, same Hell. ...Weird that there are other Hells."

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"No kidding."

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"It's probably also important if you'll be able to correspond with the rest of you from where I'm at."

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"Yeah...not sure if I can meaningfully send her home with you if summoning doesn't normally work in that Arda..."

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"Oh, it does now, I just didn't want to explain at the time - once the Valar were dead it worked. The dead humans and Dwarves don't have an afterlife or chips but they can summon. I think before that the Valar had some general interdict versus -" handwave, "stuff - that hedged out most summoning but didn't lock it down specifically, and then I showed up and they were alarmed and tightened it up so no more daeva could be summoned, and then -"

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"Yeah. You can copy over a my chip if I conjure it, right, I don't have to dig it out of my skull again?"

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"Yeah, although the apparatus to read-and-write it is a little elaborate."

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"How elaborate?"

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"Bout the height of that server rack. ...We should get rid of these servers somehow."

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"Fire?"

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"We'd burn down all the trees... Maybe we should ask Bar whether she prefers the trees burned or the entire place heaped with interpolated silicon dust."

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"Good idea."

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Bar prefers the silicon dust option, please, it will blow away eventually.

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Interpolated dust!

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Coughing! "I was expecting you to scale down the servers," he remarks.

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"I really should have done that, yeah."

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"I'm not immediately sure who I'd have summon your fork. There are people around - explaining things to everyone I resurrect - not sure they'd summon an unbound demon on my say-so though -"

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"Oh, technically I'm not unbound, just bound lightly enough it might as well be the same thing."

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"I'm loose. Kid didn't doodle his way into a binding. Are you envisioning being summoned to New Valinor or just walking out my door?"

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"Well, since there's no one here to summon new me..."

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"I don't know what the mail protocol between you and Ada and any other demons who may be about is, you could've been planning to come with me yourself and send your fork back there or something - how are you seeing this working?"

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"I was planning to go back and send Aoide with you. I figured it probably couldn't be insurmountable to find someone who'd summon her with light enough bindings. Tyelcormo comes to mind, he's my current summoner."

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"Tyelcormo's pet Maia hasn't stopped howling since Valinor got holed."

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"...Oh."

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"Yeah I'm not super popular some places."

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"What about Maitimo?"

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"He's not convenient to New Valinor but might summon you, yeah."

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"Well, that's something."

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"I can try the people he sent me to help get everybody acquainted with being alive again first, one of them might do it, it'll save the lightleaper delay."

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"Probably better than nothing even with the delay, but yeah."

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"I'd probably send an unmanned drone or something rather than wait ten days. I wasn't planning to stop working until every Valian Elf was walking around again; I'll use this place while I've got it but after that nope."

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"Yeah, that's fair."

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"Eventually there'll probably be an ex-Dwarf demon or something and we can set up comms that way. For now I think it's all me. ...Might not even be a good idea to have your fork come to New Valinor, there's dead people on Endorë too."

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"There is that, yeah," she sighs.

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"And I stand by my priority ordering but if there's another pair of metaphorical hands..."

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"Yeah."

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"So I can send Maitimo a drone message and he can summon Aoide and she can put some populations back where they belong minus their prion diseases."

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"Minus their prion diseases?"

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"Enemy got real cute with ways to kill people."

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...Scale model of all the people her Melkor has killed with prion diseases?

 

"Well, fuck."

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"Locals didn't understand it past the river being poisoned, didn't look escalatory..."

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"Why was he trying to avoid escalation?"

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"Valar wouldn't show up and ruin his fun if it looked like a fair fight."

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Snort. "Naturally."

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"The Valar were kind of aggressively unhelpful, yeah."

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"Doesn't surprise me in the least."

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"I guess yours at least couldn't issue a Doom, that not being a daeva power."

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"Doom?"

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"My Noldor had to fight their way off Valinor, they weren't supposed to leave, and the Valar got pissed and cursed them. I went to the Valar and was like 'have you considered that based on the wording of this thing it could leak into other worlds' and that's when they interdicted summoning. Did limit the Doom to the bloodlines and not literally anyone who followed the Noldor in some way whether they'd been warned or not, though."

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"Ours did send us off with a few parting ill-wishes but I wouldn't expect those to have any particular metaphysical effect."

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"Mine didn't definitely do anything but them being magic kinda things and not daeva I didn't want to chance it. Also meant I had to avoid being particularly follow-y at the Noldor."

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"Well, I have definitely not gone out of my way to do that."

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"They're pretty followable if you don't have a reason to avoid it, they have serious organizational competence going on."

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"And they're really likeable on a personal level, too, or at least the ones I've met so far are."

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"I may not have been relaxed enough or something to appreciate their personalities thus."

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"...Well, if yours had to actually kill people at Alqualonde, that might have dinged their personability. And my primary reasons for liking Tyelcormo, for example, wouldn't necessarily apply to you."

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"Yeah, they were probably under more stress in my version."

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"Dunno how much of that is our different interventions and how much of that is different starting conditions."

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"I didn't show up in time to avert Alqualondë."

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"I'm really glad I did. I mean, people still died, but--it's going to do people a world of good that they didn't do it, I think."

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"Yep."

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"I'm being horribly insensitive, aren't I."

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"My feelings are a few million slots down on 'list of things that are problems related to my having black holed an inhabited planet'."

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"Well, yes, but until we're out of Milliways and Aoide happens I can't do anything about those higher-slot things."

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"Yeah, I'm just - not prioritizing self-soothing, here, I'm not going to get on your case for talking about it."

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"That's alright, I'm used to having higher standards for my own behavior than the people around me do. Comes of being a demon who takes summons."

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"Amen. So to speak."

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"And I do not prefer to be horribly insensitive so if I am being so I would prefer to be informed for my own sake so I can teach myself not to do that better."

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"I don't want to get into a habit of being precious about people being insensitive to me on this one..."

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"Fair."

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"But I appreciate the thought."

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"I have the dubious comfort that anything Melkor might want my powers for he could do himself."

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"Yeah, if he tries to make a deal with you it won't be for that."

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"Given the forking maybe I should make it policy that if one of me tries to make a deal with Melkor the others should gang up on her and prevent it."

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"Yeah, yours can't swear sufficiently bindingly, it'd never be worth the risk."

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"I don't think one of me would try to deal with Melkor but since mind-altering oaths are a thing contingency plans are a decent idea."

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"Oh? What if all he wanted you to do was unsummon the Valar in some way that he can't for some reason - and then he'd shut down all those servers -"

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"...It wouldn't surprise me at all if the Valar are in some way a restraining influence on him and since he can't swear thoroughly enough to be satisfactory that he wouldn't just start back up again with the torture it seems obviously not worth it."

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"Yeah. But if he came up with a way to swear."

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"I really don't think there's any method of swearing he could use that I'd trust enough."

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"Probably for the best. I'd worked out a way to verify swearing in advance, Melian helped - she's a Maia Queen on Endorë, if you don't have Maiar I wonder who's there -"

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"Tyelcormo...does have a dog."

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"...and what is the nature of the dog."

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"It never occurred to me to ask!"

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"Well, my one's Huan is a Maia, they come in a variety of things-they-do-with-themselves and that one decided to be a dog. Can talk, by magic-not-chip osanwë so I could hear it, but doesn't usually."

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"I will inquire into Maiar when I leave Milliways. Actually, I can probably just conjure something to check but I need to think it over to avoid needing to interpolate a room full of paper."

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"Or you could ask Bar to loan you something? Sounded like she can do that."

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"That's such a better idea. Bar?"

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Maiar in the world you have been visiting are shapeshifting swarm intelligences.

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"Whoa. ...Cool."

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"Swarm intelligences?"

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They are made of many pieces, which individually are not sapient, and assemble into groups, which are.

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"My friend's dog is a shapeshifting swarm intelligence. Huh."

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"It's also possible he's a dog. Don't know how the parallelism works."

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"Bar, do you have access to any relevant information?"

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According to what I have available he is a Maia.

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"Cool."

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"Do swarm Maiar do osanwë?"

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With one another. There is an interpreter available for chip-loading.

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"Ooh, I don't think I got that one."

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"There's some tempting stuff - do you also have the non-chiploaded blessings?"

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"I might sort of have every blessing on Maitimo's list."

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"Nice."

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"Emily looks...very angelic, with hers."

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"Does she go in for the halo too?"

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"Yeah, but I meant more in terms of 'no one else goes in for that kind of body modification that casually' than 'Earthly images of the divine'."

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"Ah, gotcha."

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"Granted she looks much less tacky than usually happens when daeva try doing things with gems."

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"I'm not forming a clear mental image here."

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Edie conjures an image! Emily has an actually attractive design of various blessing-jewels set into her skin.

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"Ooh, nifty."

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"She has very well-developed aesthetic sensibilities."

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"Bet she likes Elves."

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"She does, in fact!"

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"Once somebody, maybe Fëanáro, compared the idea of an Elf saying they'd build something pretty to live in after the war with the idea of a human saying they'd sleep after the war."

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"Well, being a daeva obviates the need for sleep."

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"Yeah. I usually don't sleep even when I'm not trying to repopulate a planet."

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"Yeah, it's just so much less interesting than almost anything else you could be doing with your time."

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Nod nod.

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"Dreams are enough fun that I do occasionally take a full night's sleep but not terribly often."

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"I'm usually not that interested in dreams, it's more of a 'comfy, not in the mood for coffee, don't wanna get up and play the violin' situation."

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"Huh. Dreams can be really fun, though."

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"Sure, just, seldom occurs to me to seek them out - might be that I don't tend to remember them in much detail."

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"Ah, that'd explain it."

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Nod.

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"...We're making small talk. About sleep."

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"Well, we could do unremitting shop talk but we're on paused time."

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"No, it's just, Hell doesn't so much have weather, this is possibly equivalent..."

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"My understanding is that demons mostly small talk about media but I guess that's less generic, if there's no overlap."

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"Overlap?"

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"In what people've seen. If I start talking about Atriama and you've never heard of it..."

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"Oh, I have, actually, that was good."

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"It's my favorite."

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"I like the one with the incompetent Dr. Faustus better."

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"That one's cute, I don't know, maybe I didn't see a very good production..."

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"It's not as aesthetic as Atriama but I liked the plot better. Might be down to differences in taste."

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"Yeah, probably. I made a refugee planet to hide my summoner and some other people on and they were threatening to take years to name it so I was like 'or we could call it Atriama!'"

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"I would not have threatened to name a refugee planet Faustus but I see your point."

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"Nah, Gretchen."

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"Better, but probably still not up to elf standards of pretty."

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"Yeah, maybe."

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"Maybe I'm wrong, it just doesn't seem to match their language aesthetic as closely as Atriama does."

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"I'm not sure if their language aesthetic is that strict or if that's just what Quenya and Thindarin happen to sound like and they could also appreciate Yiddish."

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"Well, Feanaro could."

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"I was warned not to bring up how many languages I know at a time when he couldn't afford to be distracted."

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"I will be surprised if he doesn't at least want to fork into a daeva once the option's available."

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"Yeah, probably. Put ten of him in a room and have them figure out how to travel to Limbo."

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"After Melkor's solved."

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"Yeah, then."

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"Of course, ten of Feanaro in a room'll probably be good for that, too."

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"Yep."

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"Frankly considering his example I'm very lucky Maitimo decided that even under oath it was worth risking my running amok snapping my bindings to save the Teleri."

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"How'd that go down exactly?"

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"He summoned me on Araman, offered me the lightleaper blueprints in exchange for the lightleapers, I bargained him up to that and also time with my sister, he took us down to the planet with him because being within a short distance of your summoner is a legally required binding, the Noldor started going up to Araman in shuttles, the Valar announced that summoning and shuttles were suspended, we ran to Alqualonde to leave anyway, Maitimo extracted oaths from me and snapped my bindings so I could knock everyone unconscious so that the Teleri didn't either alert the Valar, thus likely killing people in shuttles, or get killed in the preventing of that, the Valar showed up anyway, and we got--almost everyone to Araman. Not everyone. Some of the shuttles were yanked back down, killing everyone in them and people in buildings they crashed into, and I grabbed Maitimo's wrist and determined to drag his corpse back to Hell with me just before he died, and then in Hell I cracked his skull open and retrieved the chip and stuck his body in a freezer until I knew what he wanted me to do with it."

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"- you can knock Elves unconscious? I found them biologically uncooperative."

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"Huh. Yeah, I can."

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"How?"

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"I mean, Elf knockout drugs are different, but--maybe it was easier for them to find out because daeva?"

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"Maybe. I did some testing on basement dwellers and didn't get anywhere but I didn't devote that much time to it."

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She names the drugs.

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"Good to know."

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"Hopefully you won't need it."

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"Probably won't, not that much call for it anymore."

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"Probably not as useful as Aoide."

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"Yeah."

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"I wish there was more I could do to help."

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"Halving the time it'll take to get everyone alive again is big all by itself."

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"Yeah, but."

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"I might be able to give you more intel, although you'd have to double-check everything to see how it parallels with daeva and swarm Valar and Maiar instead of the magic things..." He pulls out his notes and arranges them into a summary of his war.

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"Well, if nothing else this is a lovely little laundry list of reasons evacuating the Earth is worth it."

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"If you can evacuate it, yes."

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"Yeah. Morbid sense of humor."

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"Unfortunately, surface takeoff is not a solved problem to the point where I can just tell you how to blast every square mile individually out of harm's way."

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"Unfortunately, yeah. ...Maybe we could get ten Feanaros in here, take advantage of the timestop, solve that problem..."

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"...tempting. Don't, of course, have a way to ask them - unless you do?"

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"On the same spaceship as mine, currently."

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"Lovely, 'ten Fëanáros with all the time in the world' sounds very win-condition-esque."

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"It rather does, doesn't it."

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Cam gestures at the door. "Any reason to wait?"

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"None that I can think of." She walks back to the door and opens it. Feanaro?

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Yes?

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I found an interdimensional bar that periodically hijacks doors and met a demon from my Hell who was accidentally summoned to a different Arda and has a way of forking non-daeva. Time's paused relative to the bar in relevant dimensions while the door's closed. How do you feel about having subjectively unlimited time to collaborate with yourself/ves to fix everything

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Interdimensional bar that hijacks doors? A different Arda? And yes, obviously I want subjectively unlimited time to fix everything -

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I have explanatory napkins, she says, and sends him where exactly the hijacked door is.

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Explanatory napkins?

And he walks in.

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She hands him the napkins. "The bar is magic and sentient and communicates by conjuring napkins with things written on them."

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He reads the napkins. "I would like to know more about the translation magic," he tells the bar.

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It is an ambient effect of the establishment not under my control. It optimizes mostly for people who are not paying attention to never notice its presence when possible, although this breaks down in some cases such as the particularly heavy use of puns, sign language with non-signers, etcetera. The most common manifestation to the extent I can expect anyone to report on what they experience to me is that people hear their native or most expected fluent language unless they speak whatever their interlocutor is speaking, wordplay is force-translated, and people who have in fact noticed the translation effect can with some deliberateness manage to communicate about phonemes rather than content by intending to.

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"Do you mind if I run a bunch of tests on it?"

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Not at all.

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"It's a shame Curufinwë's not on this ship," he says - "I want to test what qualifies as a language, so I'm going to speak in constructed ones at various stages of development, Edie, can you tell me whether you can understand me -"

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"I can understand you."

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He goes through two dozen more of them, a sentence apiece, from conlangs still in the very early notes stage to ones that have a few dozen works written in them.

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As long as he isn't making things up on the spot, she can pretty much understand all of it.

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And when he starts making things up on the spot, does it matter if he's following pre-established syntax and word forming rules? 

- if he has two conlangs in which the same string of syllables mean different things, and he says the string of syllables, which does she hear -

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If he's following pre-existing rules she can still understand him. If he's intending to say things in one or the other language she hears that, if he's focusing on saying both she hears the phonemes.

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Signed languages, writing, cyphers -

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The translation effect around sign is weird but it works. Writing translates. Ciphers don't.

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If she's been taught the cipher -

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Nope, she still has to decipher it manually.

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What's the operative distinction between a cipher and a constructed language, here are ten test cases where you could make an argument it's either -

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...Seems to be intent-based, sort of, it the point of the cipher is to keep people out it'll do that.

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Intent of the creator or the speaker - "I need more people here to work with -"

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"Anyone in particular, or just people in general?"

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"You said you can fork people?"

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"Well, Cam's the one who knows the specs for the machine that can turn demon-conjured chip copies into viable ones."

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He raises an eyebrow. "Well. That's incredibly dangerous."

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"I'm not writing down that it exists even under the strongest cipher possible."

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"It means that even if we send Melkor back to Hell, if he ever figures it out -"

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"True. But not actually any more true than it was before I found this door. And wasn't the plan to resummon him immediately under the strictest binding possible, rather than leaving him to roam free in Hell?"

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"Yep. Just means we had better get that part right. Alright, can I have ten of me and ten of Curufinwë and some computers -"

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"How long would it take to get his consent before forking him?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"He's on another ship mid-leap, how are you planning to accomplish that? All of our people are risking their lives - more than their lives - in this war, they'd do anything that ends it."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Mid-leap, alright. If the answer had been, 'thirty seconds, we can communicate with the ship he's on easy' it would have been worth asking first. Cam?"

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"...I'll get you one of him on your say-so and he can confirm then if he wants another nine. Bar, do you take counterfeit -"

Permalink Mark Unread

Yes.

Permalink Mark Unread

"How much space do you want to rent?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Everything I need should fit in a room - I suppose we might need to eat and sleep occasionally -"

Permalink Mark Unread

"How big a room, should I expect more than one of you to sleep at any given time, I can rent you a place upstairs."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Are the places here pretty enough, if it's going to be subjectively a couple of decades or centuries -"

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"I'm sure you can have it decorated however you like. Are the supernovas pretty, you could get a room with a view of the supernovas."

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"Supernovas are pretty," he confirms. "we should get a Macalaurë if it's looking like it'll be centuries..."

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"I really am pretty dubious about forking people without having a chance to ask first."

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"Is there some dimension where this is widely known and we already have forks and can be assumed to be okay with it? Can you conjure off that?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"In my Arda you do not already have forks, I've been occupied bringing back dead people."

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"Good for you! Not having Mandos as the constraint on that will do wonders for us as a society."

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"Yeah."

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"No one who chose to take part in the war is going to be bothered by being forked so we can win the war. Really."

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"I will get you one Curufinwë sight unseen and we can talk about a Macalaurë if you decide it's going to be centuries."

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"Alright."

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And Cam rents them a nice big suite with a view of the supernovae, and himself a room with enough space to put a read-write machine in, and he goes and makes forks.

Permalink Mark Unread

And Curufinwë's delighted to have ten of him, thank you very much, and here are three promising approaches let's split into groups and get at them.

Permalink Mark Unread

Cam supplies the additional Curufinwës and the computers - would they like the chiplocked kind - here they go -

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Yep, they are familiar with and very much concerned with demon security measures, chip-locked it is. And if Cam can just make them some food that won't go bad, in the corner or something -

Permalink Mark Unread

They could also go downstairs and get food from Bar off a counterfeit tab, but sure, shelves of shelf-stables in the corner.

Permalink Mark Unread

That'd require going downstairs. Thank you. If he's planning on sticking around they'll probably come socialize occasionally, this is going to be a long project and it's not as if rests even delay it getting completed.

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He's not in a hurry to go back very soon. Probably won't actually stay for centuries.

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Fair enough. They'll be down in a couple weeks once they've sorted out how useful it is to work with forks of yourself and so on. 

 

Tyelcormo's on this ship isn't he, would Edie mind asking him if they can have one of him.

Permalink Mark Unread

"Is he far enough away that it wouldn't work to just ask him to come himself?"

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That works too! Better, maybe, if Huan's unforkable.

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If there's a way to fork Maiar she doesn't know it.

She goes downstairs and pokes her head out the door. Tyelcormo? Weird stuff's going on, your dad wants you--and she sends him the location.

Permalink Mark Unread

And he comes on over.

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She lets him inside and hands him the explanatory napkins.

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"Weird. Not that I'm complaining - I don't think you'll need more than one of me, the reason they need me is to remind them to eat and sleep and have physical contact with other people occasionally, and I can do that for twenty as easily as for two - and it's an easier sell, when people aren't dying while they relax....

 

Wow. We needed a miracle and we got one, looks like. Thank you. And is there an explanatory napkin for the forking -" He is also looking confusedly at Cam.

Permalink Mark Unread

"I can produce the explanation on a napkin if you want."

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"I actually kind of can't read so non-napkin explanations are even better, if you've got those."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I am from the same Hell as Edie but got summoned to a different yet bizarrely parallel Arda. Over the course of ending my version of the war it was discovered that the data's clean on demon-conjured chips, just - magically doesn't work - but it can be nonmagically read-and-written to blanks and those work."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Well, fuck. I mean. At least the Enemy presumably doesn't know that but I wouldn't count on it and - fuck. Okay. So we're staying in timestopped magic bar until the army of my dad and my brother figure out a way to stop him? Most obvious avenue being figuring out non-summoning interdimensional transport which demons can't conjure so we can send the Enemy some place uninhabited - or, actually, some place with different laws of physics so he can't make himself any chipped people - how'd you stop yours, kill the summoner?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"His was apparently not a daeva."

Permalink Mark Unread

"And you got summoned to handle him? Congratulations."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I really don't like telling this story but Edie can if she likes."

Permalink Mark Unread

"...He got summoned by accident, they don't have summoning naively in the world he got summoned to."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Weird. By accident? Unbound? Wow, lucky they got you."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I find it intensely flattering that you know to have that reaction and still have me on bindings this light, by the way."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Most people are kind of shitty. You aren't."

Permalink Mark Unread

"It's true!"

Permalink Mark Unread

"If their world hasn't otherwise got daeva we're probably way ahead on some tech stuff - demon-proof communication maybe in particular -"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Yeah, probably. Not that it means as much without regular summoning..."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Right. We also might be ahead, like, generally, hard to guess the way the advantages of summoning propagate -

 

- this is so weird -"

Permalink Mark Unread

"That they don't have summoning?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"That there are two Ardas, that they still have a Melkor in any form, that not having summoning wouldn't have created so many differences the world'd be barely intelligible - do they have Valar, do their Valar suck less -"

Permalink Mark Unread

"...They...had a Valinor..."

Permalink Mark Unread

"..."

Permalink Mark Unread

"So this world's kind of Valar and Maiar can make binding oaths despite chips not being involved anywhere and Melkor offered to swear stuff that would make it unnecessary to kill him--which they were making no progress on--if he black-holed Valinor--and they came up with a super fucking tight wording and when they figured out how to naively rez people they went for it."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Ouch.

 

 

Not that we thought we were going to end this thing with our hands clean but still. Fuck."

Permalink Mark Unread

"One of the reasons it was considered worth it is that he's destructively uploading people and tormenting them in accelerated perception on--I think the dusted remains of the copy I conjured of his servers are still outside."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I'm not saying it wasn't worth it. Just.

 

 

Our one's doing that too?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Yyyyyyep."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I guess it's a good thing we found out now instead of a few days ago because Dad would have just given the orders to kill the summoner. And now maybe we can think of a better way."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Yeah."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Wonder if there's anything we can do for those people, or if it's better to just turn them off."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Well, now we can retrieve versions of them who that didn't happen to."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Yeah but. If someone's running on a computer, shutting it down forever is kind of killing them. If he was torturing people in normal people-form dunno how we'd feel about killing them all and bringing back earlier versions of them - we'd probably at least ask them -"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Yeah. Well. If we get our hands on the computers after Melkor's dealt with we might be able to ask."

Permalink Mark Unread

"He forks them - or mine did anyway - you might have to deal with a few hundred traumatized versions of anybody who hasn't actually been driven to suicidality if you do rescue forks - I'm not planning on it myself unless somebody really, really wants their post-Angband version."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Yeah. But if they currently exist, then even if they stop existing it's not going to appreciably add to the harm done to them if we talk to them first."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I don't know what the right thing to do is. Probably not fill up a planet with a few hundred traumatized versions of people - but if I check by imagining they were embodied people already on a planet I don't think I'd say 'kill them' - this is why 'the right thing to do' is such a useless concept -"

Permalink Mark Unread

"S'pose, as long as you can't outsource shutting them down..."

Permalink Mark Unread

"If they're already forked conjuring an untraumatized version of each one and consulting them might be valuable--if I say, 'If that ever somehow happens to one of me, kill her,' or 'if that ever happens to one of me, put her in a soft cozy room with lots of chocolate and hope she recovers'--those are both valid advance directives, and consulting a version of the person yoinked from earlier in the timeline is like an advance directive."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I like that approach. Uh, if that ever somehow happens to one of me and he has or can be conjured a family who loves him and wants him, try grabbing him. If no one's going to want him leave him dead."

Permalink Mark Unread

"...If it does actually happen to one of me...if she's coherent enough to express genuine preferences, even to die, set her up somewhere comfortable and respect non-death preferences and if she still wants to die after enough time has passed then let her. Not sure what enough time is. Consult the rest of me. If she cannot form preferences put her somewhere cozy and wait a little bit but not as long."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I should ask everybody else - at least, on this ship - though I guess starting time again even for a few seconds is potentially really bad..."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Yeah. You can do it once we're done here and leaving anyway."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Might be centuries. Even with ten of my father, this is several impossible problems at once, and since nothing depends on them solving it fast enough -"

Permalink Mark Unread

"I'll remind you, I copied all Maitimo's blessings which includes perfect memory."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Of course it does. Why's he not here, are we just keeping this trimmed to operationally necessary people because on the one hand that's reasonable on the other hand, centuries..."

Permalink Mark Unread

"No one specifically asked for him yet?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"I want to ask him if he'd hook up with a fork of himself and I expect something we need him for will come up in the next few decades but there's nothing important yet."

Permalink Mark Unread

 

"Is that not an impolite question on your Arda?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Not really? I mean, forks are new, it's not a question that'd come up - anyway, I'd totally do me, I bet Macalaure'd hook up with himself and he's straight, but I have no idea on Maitimo and sitting here for the next few decades trying to feel the gravity of the situation sounds like it won't actually help make the situation better so I'm definitely going to ask him."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Huh. My Arda is rampantly homophobic. I dropped the Library of Hell on Valinor - before - used to amuse myself reading their censorship reports -"

Permalink Mark Unread

"That sucks. And is kind of weird. We have the library of Hell already, maybe that's what made the difference? Poor Maitimo, he actually cares what people think of him, that'd mess with his head so badly."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I'd be interested in jointly seducing someone with a fork or in hooking up with a male fork but I'm straight enough that that just naively hooking up with a fork doesn't appeal."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Is this what we're doing now? I would totally do a fork but I'd rather not make one. However, if the other Earth's got a me after all..."

Permalink Mark Unread

"It's not any more inane than making small talk about sleep."

Permalink Mark Unread

"True."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Could you make a boy you, Edie, or would that not work?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"I could make one who was physically male but I don't know if it's possible to mess with the chips to the extent of getting a me who was actually a guy."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Probably not, like you couldn't get one that doesn't do backups or doesn't do oaths. Have we tried summoning Cam-in-this-dimension or would it not work normally in Milliways."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I don't want to risk it fucking with the time-pausing."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Makes sense."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Why would 'being a guy' and 'not doing oaths/backups' be comparable?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Efforts to summon 'this chip with this thing different' when the thing that'd be different isn't extant?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"I mean, there exist chips of guys, but point taken. I was thinking more in terms of having Emily fuck with it than creating it naively, though."

Permalink Mark Unread

"No idea if that'd work. If she can make peoples' chips not back up to Mandos everyone is going to want that -"

Permalink Mark Unread

"No real ethical way to test it, though."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I bet you'd get volunteers, but it'd admittedly be kind of gruesome."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I think the best way to deal with Mandos is just to wreck his setup rather than performing horrific experiments on people."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I would say 'and how do we do that' but I guess the answer is that we let the geniuses work for as long as it takes.

 

...have they been told about the other Arda, maybe we can help there, too, somehow, invent some way to bring Maiar back - come to think of it, demons should be able to make Maiar, shouldn't you-"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Their Maiar are different."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Of course they are."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Why would demons be able to make Maiar, is it because they have nonsapient individual bits?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Yeah, you should be able to make as many bits as you want and then I have no idea how the bits become a Maia - I think it takes a long time - but you'd have one."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Unless they're magically inert in that way like chips."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Maybe. I assume daeva made them all in the first place, so that'd be very strange, but maybe."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Really? Why?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"They're millions of years old and mostly serve a Vala, if they're complicated enough to be people?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Huh. How do they work, mostly, I got the explanation that they're shapeshifting swarm intelligences but not much else..."

Permalink Mark Unread

"There could be some sort of hack like read-and-writing chips. I think in my universe Maiar and Valar all happened simultaneously, though?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"What are they in your universe, do you know?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Vaguely magical things of various shapes and sizes. If try to conjure up a Maia, per se, I get fuckall. I can get their forms but I have to aim at the form, not the person."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Huh."

 

Huan is sniffing around the bar. Cam's unhappy, he tells Tyelcormo.

Yeah, I'd noticed. 

 

Permalink Mark Unread

Cam: continues to be unhappy.

Permalink Mark Unread

"Even if it's possible to create a Maia, that doesn't necessarily imply it's possible to fork an already-existing one."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Yeah, it'd depend on how exactly the swarm stores personality and memory data. When the no-minds thing is operative it's operative hard, I can't even make a Silmaril as good as the originals - do you have Silmarils -"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Yup. They can do chip backups so Mandos doesn't get a piece of us. Enemy has them. My father deliberately made them smart so demons couldn't dupe them."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Silmaril backups wouldn't circumvent the read-write trick, so what's daeva Mandos doing if that's not it?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"The chips just back up to something he's got and he can write new ones from there. You're not allowed to summon your own demons for resurrection even if the chip's intact, Mandos likes being in charge of it."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Eugh."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I know. It made resurrecting Maitimo even more satisfying."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Yup. It was really cute, actually, the first time we did extradimensional summoning, got this guy and he was like 'your world is ruled by daeva? Fuck." and until then I don't think I'd ever heard anyone say aloud that, yeah, we got a pretty shitty draw on the benevolent saviours front. And Maitimo said Edie had almost the same reaction -"

Permalink Mark Unread

"I kept thinking about furniture angel. I mean, I'm not saying all possible daeva would do terribly as rulers but the inherent power imbalance just screams 'in all but the most perfect circumstances this is going to turn out badly'."

Permalink Mark Unread

"The magic version are not better."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Well, the magic version aren't good, doesn't necessarily mean they're not better."

Permalink Mark Unread

"...I think they are not better, but I guess I'm not caught up on all the details."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Did they kill a lot of people and then blame an innocent who'd been trying to do the exact opposite?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"They are to my knowledge innocent of that in particular."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I don't know what they were actually like. I shouldn't assume. I apologize."

Permalink Mark Unread

Shrug.

Permalink Mark Unread

Mildly awkward silence.

Permalink Mark Unread

"On the other hand, apparently their Valinor is extremely censorious and ours is....not. When Cam leaves we lose contact between the dimensions, is that right?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"We're from the same Hell, so I'd expect us to be able to pass messages by conjuration. Maybe if there are dimensional shenanigans we have to be unsummoned first or something."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Okay. I was going to say that maybe in a few subjective centuries ten of my father will just invent a way to time-travel or something and it'd be a shame if there was no way to let you know, but as long as there's something, and someone checking -"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Yeah. I assume the version of him in mine will produce interesting things too."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Might take him longer. Under the circumstances. Or maybe they'll make him work faster, don't know."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Pity yours isn't in reach."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Bet he'd be delighted to be forked, too, if there's something it'd be useful to have him for..."

Permalink Mark Unread

"That wouldn't surprise me, but I'm reluctant to presume it."

Permalink Mark Unread

"It sounds like we're the same people, with only the Valar changed? There aren't any versions of my father who wouldn't be happy to be forked so they can work in a time-stopped bar without the soul-crushing certainty that every minute they waste or sleep is a moment in which unimaginable horrors are done -"

Permalink Mark Unread

"...It does seem like the unimagineable horrors are done with there. At least for now. But granted."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I kind of want to give all our alts a hug, it's soul-crushing and I didn't even learn the worst of it until we had an avenue to end it."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Yeah, there's that."

Permalink Mark Unread

"If we're staying here awhile I might design a new starship, wanna help?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Sure, why not."

Permalink Mark Unread

So he tells her the computer system and model and shows her how the design program works and they start brainstorming extremely pretty starship designs.

Permalink Mark Unread

"We should probably get Emily in here. She'd love this and I am not spending decades without my twin."

Permalink Mark Unread

"If we're gonna cause time to pass again, even a few seconds of it, we should get a list of everyone we want."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Yeah, good plan. I don't need her now."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I'm happy to save the pretty-ship-design for when we've got her, if it's making you nostalgic, it's just that my other hobbies are flying and shooting things, and those are less suited to here..."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Just brought it to mind, that's all, although I really doubt anyone'd mind if you shot at the drifts of former-server dust in the backyard. Might be cathartic."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Is there anything behind the drifts of former-server dust because I went as far in on eyesight and reflexes as Maitimo went on memory and I can hit something forty miles off, if there's something forty miles off who doesn't want to be shot at."

Permalink Mark Unread

"There was a mountain and a forest and a lake with a giant squid in it. I was actually reasonably careful not to choke the lake with dust when I was destroying the servers."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Ooooh I wanna talk to the giant squid."

Permalink Mark Unread

"...Talk to?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"So there's no actual chip-loaded mindreading, firstly because yikes and secondly because human thoughts are complicated. But the people who were trying chip-loaded mindreading successfully got a result they considered totally useless, which was the ability to read animals' minds! And I thought this was fantastic and got it and the reserve installation and now I've more or less got osanwe-for-animals, only you can't do language, you have to do concepts, unless they're really smart animals by default, and it takes forever to figure out how to use..."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Oh, wow, that's really cool."

Permalink Mark Unread

"So gonna go say hi to the giant squid, never talked to a giant squid before."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I will come with you to make sure it doesn't accidentally get silica dust knocked in."

Permalink Mark Unread

Squidwards. He pauses awkwardly by Cam. "Uh, obviously you had a really awful time of it, and I'm going to completely ignore that unless you want me to do something different because I'm pretty incompetent at talking to anyone more complicated than a giant squid."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Ignoring it is fine," Cam says.

Permalink Mark Unread

"No, it's not actually fine, but realistically I'm not likely to do better by trying awkwardly. ....Huan's super huggable and usually that's my go-to but I'm guessing under the circumstances you really don't want to hug Huan. We'll be back in a bit."

 

Squidward, again, a bit more reluctantly.

Permalink Mark Unread

I apologized for being insensitive about it at one point and he said he was dramatically deprioritizing his own feelings on the matter and I reframed it in terms of my own well being and he actively prefers to avoid taking his feelings into consideration, apparently.

Permalink Mark Unread

I mean, as far as methods of self-flaggelation for holing a planet go, refusing to tell people how they can cheer you up is a pretty mild one - I'd be more worried if he'd asked the bar for howeverfuckingmany drinks it takes to get a demon drunk...

Permalink Mark Unread

Well, no more than for a human if we let it, and literally no amount will affect us if we don't...

Permalink Mark Unread

Convenient. Anyway. If he wants to be sad it's way above my paygrade to change that. 

Permalink Mark Unread

Coerced into genocide really is a higher scale of problem.

Permalink Mark Unread

Yeah. Like, my default for complicated social stuff is 'we need a Maitimo', but this isn't even that, this is 'we need a time machine. And a Maitimo. And probably Olórin.

Permalink Mark Unread

Olorin?

Permalink Mark Unread

Maia I knew who's very - levelheaded, and would probably tell him that it was the right call and courageous.

Permalink Mark Unread

Getting that from someone who probably has an alt who died on his Valinor would probably be either really helpful or the exact opposite.

Permalink Mark Unread

Thus why we need a Maitimo too.

Permalink Mark Unread

Yeah.

Permalink Mark Unread

And he flops next to the water and Huan flops next to him and he starts singing to the giant squid.

Permalink Mark Unread

Quendi singing sure is nice. She sits down and keeps an eye on the dust.

Permalink Mark Unread

The squid peeks a huge eye above the surface of the water.

Permalink Mark Unread

He laughs delightedly and keeps singing and sends the thoughts for pleasure at encountering something new and curiosity about what it is like to be a giant squid.

Permalink Mark Unread

It is pleasant to be a giant squid! The squid likes this lake, that is why it has been here for 600,000 years.

Permalink Mark Unread

That is a long time! Huan is older than that but everyone else Tyelcormo knows is way younger. What's the most interesting thing that has happened to the lake, and were they successful at keeping the silicon dust out?

 

He relays all this to Edie in case she's curious. 

Permalink Mark Unread

The lake's seen worse. People do all kinds of crazy shit in the backyard. Fighting's illegal in the bar but not in the yard, so if people want to do anything destructive they come out here. The squid is pretty chill about all that but some of it was interesting to look at. Occasionally people go in the lake and swim with it. All kindsa people of many shapes and sizes.

Permalink Mark Unread

Illegal? There's daeva in the Bar, how do they enforce that?

Permalink Mark Unread

Well, the squid's never been in there personally but as it understands it whoever is in the security office Can Take You whoever You are.

Permalink Mark Unread

...can we go meet them, do they do contract work...

Permalink Mark Unread

The squid isn't sure on either count.

Permalink Mark Unread

Then he will have a pleasant but brief exchange with the squid, thank it, and suggest to Edie they head to the security office and meet someone who can take a daeva.

Permalink Mark Unread

"Makes sense to me." She stands up and brushes computer dust off herself.

Permalink Mark Unread

In the Security office is a fellow who looks perfectly ordinary and human except for the fact that he's eating a levitating ice cream cone. "Somebody making trouble?" he asks.

Permalink Mark Unread

"Not in the bar. But there are a couple people in the bar who are - in the dimensions we're familiar with - unstoppable, and one of them happens to like uploading and torturing millions of people and you are apparently by definition qualified to stop that kind of person so I guess we're wondering if you do contract work. Or humanitarian work. Or if there's anything at all you'd be willing to do to help us out."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Ah, I would, but I met somebody here once who seemed like he'd know and he says if I go visit any worlds that aren't mine all my momentum drains out of me instantly, wouldn't be any good to anybody that way."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Momentum?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"It's a my-magic-system thing, more magic you do the more you get, can't take too many breaks though - I love this place, it puts my momentum on hold while I'm in it, I can relax, read a book."

Permalink Mark Unread

"And to tap in to your magic system, people've got to be in your dimension?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Yeah. I can still do magic here but I can't gain or lose momentum."

Permalink Mark Unread

"So we've got to figure out directed non-summoning interdimensional transit and then take Melkor to you and then you can - destroy him? remove his powers? What would you be able to do if we were in your home dimension?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"For the record I am totally up for being a guinea pig but there are limits."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I can do all kinds of stuff," shrugs the Security guy, "pretty generic really except not being so good at information gathering, but I don't know who this guy is, only have your word for it..."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Yeah, I wasn't expecting you'd be willing to murder someone on our sayso - your world wouldn't conveniently happen to have oaths, or a way to verify them -"

Permalink Mark Unread

"No? Not like it sounds like you mean..."

Permalink Mark Unread

"If I swear something, I'm bound to it. So in my dimension I can credibly say "I swear that Melkor is actively currently torturing so many people that the servers he's using to run their torture on take up fifty square miles, and that I don't know any way to stop him without taking away his demon powers, because he could do it from literally anywhere he might be put." But I can't think how I'd prove that oaths work. And Edie can summon the servers for you but that doesn't prove anything by itself."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Sounds like you're in a pinch back home. Sorry."

Permalink Mark Unread

"We're working something out. Well. His dad is."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Do you know what you could do to a daeva, just in case we can find some other way to replicate it -"

Permalink Mark Unread

"I don't know what daeva are," says the sorcerer. "When somebody starts something on my shift I just teleport them into the Security cells to cool off and barely have to do anything else ninety-five percent of the time, the cells are pretty solid."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I think this would be one of the other five percent of the time. Demons can make stuff. Arbitrary stuff."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I'm a demon but if your magic's not good at information I don't expect that to mean much to you."

Permalink Mark Unread

"She could make a black hole."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Yeah when I get called out to break something up I just sort of generically don't let things surprise me, if you're here on my shift you probably can't make a black hole if I'm not letting you."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Demons are supposed to be indestructible, do you know if you could dent them -"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Dunno, that's not actually something I have to do on the job. 'Could take you' doesn't mean 'could injure you', means 'could stop you and make you wait out your cooling-off time'."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Okay. Thanks for your time."

Permalink Mark Unread

It was a long shot anyway, she sighs.

Permalink Mark Unread

Yeah. It's confirmation there are dimensions without daeva and with different magic systems, though, makes it likelier that if we end up having to hop around a lot we'll find something that can take a demon.

Permalink Mark Unread

True, that's definitely something.

Permalink Mark Unread

We'll figure it out. It will probably take a really long time, but we'll figure it out.

Permalink Mark Unread

She hugs him.

Permalink Mark Unread

We're really lucky. This could be so much worse.

Permalink Mark Unread

Yeah. Poor Cam. Poor Cam's Valinor.

Permalink Mark Unread

Yeah. Evil fucking Enemy, they'd better find a way to murder him. Maybe go murder Cam's too even if that one's harmless.

Permalink Mark Unread

Harmless until he finds a loophole.

Permalink Mark Unread

Exactly. I'm not a big fan of killing people for revenge but in the case of that monster I haven't exactly got scruples about it either, and I can't think how we'd be sure he was safe.

Permalink Mark Unread

I'm not fully comfortable with it becoming possible to kill demons, for obvious reasons, but I won't argue that it's worth it.

Permalink Mark Unread

Once he's gone it definitely joins the list of secrets we're not sharing. But - if it's possible for demons to make minds it's probably necessary that it be possible to kill demons - I'm sure most of you are lovely people and everything but -

Permalink Mark Unread

Yeah. At least for my personal comfort there's the fact that chipping myself means that if anything happens to me, as long as you have one trustworthy demon I'm basically okay.

Permalink Mark Unread

Yeah, we'd definitely get you back.

Permalink Mark Unread

I should probably spend some time in Hell encouraging the use of the chips at some point when it's convenient.

Permalink Mark Unread

Assuming it's not an easy inference from there to 'we can create minds' - I suppose it'd be a very unusual person who wanted to torture their fork -

Permalink Mark Unread

Or a very kinky one, yeah, but that's not quite the same thing.

Permalink Mark Unread

If people want to torture their consenting forks that seems like extremely none of my business.

Permalink Mark Unread

Agreed. Anyway, maybe we can sweep for that kind of behavior--don't mention the forking thing, check to see when people figure it out, keep an eye on them to start with...not really the priority now, though.

Permalink Mark Unread

No. Now the priority is making sure my dads and brothers don't starve themselves because the work's too interesting to stop and/or because they don't really want to cope with reality and the work lets them avoid it...

Permalink Mark Unread

Eegh, yeah.

I assume it'll take at least a couple hours before that's necessary, though.

Permalink Mark Unread

Yeah, wouldn't bother them yet. 

Permalink Mark Unread

So what should we do in the meantime?

Permalink Mark Unread

Dunno. Do you think keeping Cam company is better or worse than not doing that -

Permalink Mark Unread

If it seems to be making things worse we can stop, she shrugs.

Permalink Mark Unread

Then back to Cam. "I'm wondering if my brother wrote the same music in the other Arda, would you mind grabbing them? And something to play them on, I guess, we probably don't have compatible file systems with the other Arda..."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Uh, sure." Discography, player, bam. "He's really good."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I'll pass the compliment along. Back when we were stuck summoning locally he'd do commissions for demons, we got a lot of nice stuff that way - oh, yeah, this is different than anything Macalaurë wrote but still obviously Macalaurë, weird -"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Wow."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Isn't he amazing?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Yes!"

Permalink Mark Unread

To Tyelcormo's surprise his father comes downstairs before they've finished listening through the symphony. "We're out of food," he says, "can one of the daeva conjure some more - same content's fine -" He looks like it's been at least a month. 

 

Permalink Mark Unread

"...sure." Cam goes up to place another supply of food.

Permalink Mark Unread

"You okay?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"We've been productive."

Permalink Mark Unread

"You look like it's been a month."

Permalink Mark Unread

He blinks. "It's been two."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Explanatory napkins said time was inconsistent between bar locations that weren't interacting."

Permalink Mark Unread

"How long's it been for you -"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Like, six hours? I was going to check up on you and make sure you didn't work yourself half to death - you don't even need to, time's not passing, no one's dying because you haven't figured it out yet - I am going to go drag all of them down here and we are going to have a fucking regatta race and - two months -"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Are you set on a regatta race because I'm amenable to a break but I want to learn some new languages."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Then we will do both of those things."

Permalink Mark Unread

...Edie starts talking in a demon language.

Permalink Mark Unread

"Helps explain the security shifts. If usually no or very little time passes in there one person who can take daeva can sit a shift through some very long-term resident daeva."

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"We talked to the guy who can take daeva in case he could help with our Melkor. His magic's limited to his dimension, and he doesn't have anything for verifying information so even if we bring him Melkor he is understandably reluctant to murder him."

 

(Fëanáro starts echoing Edie and rephrasing sentences and asking questions.)

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(Cam switches helpfully to the demon language.) "Inconvenient."

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"We'll come up with something. He also wasn't sure he could actually injure daeva, just temporarily stop them from making things that'd inconvenience him in his vicinity."

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"If it comes up I made the bluer of my extremities without nerves in the attaching joints and don't mind being a test subject, but it sounds like that's not necessarily the bottleneck."

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"Not yet, at least. Do one of the two of you want to make me a bunch of sailboats, I was entirely serious about dragging all twenty of them out to the lake for a regatta - two months - that wasn't even enough food for two months -"

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"D'you have a sailboat design in mind?"

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So he goes back to the starship-design project they'd abandoned in a corner and pulls up a whole fleet of sailboats - "if cost of materials is no object I can totally make ones faster than this, though -" and he starts fiddling - "here. Thanks."

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"No problem." Cam goes and makes a fleet of sailboats in the lake.

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And he goes and drags the rest of his father and his brothers' forks out of the room and did any of you even have a change of clothes did it occur to you that there were helpful daeva right downstairs and then out to the lake for a regatta.

"Are either of you participating?"

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"Don't know how to sail," Cam says.

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Well, that's not "I am performing miserable self-abnegation for the next indefinite period of time because my war sucked so much" so he's going to beam at Cam like it's a brilliant answer. "Edie?"

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"I don't know how to sail either but I'd love to learn!"

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"Bet you can cheat by creating air, so you'll be able to keep up once you've gotten the barest of a handle on it." And he starts explaining.

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Eidetic memory is so convenient! She will cheat just enough to make up for the delay caused by inexperience and even then only because she has implicit permission.

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Sailing faster is more fun and it's not like who wins is the point, the point is three of his father's sailboats piling up because they can't stop distractedly practicing the language and one of them getting pitched into the lake and Curufinwë reluctantly indulging a competitive streak he'd quashed as childish centuries ago and teasing them all about the fact they've been for convenience calling each other 'zero' through 'nine' - "what kind of linguists are you" -

- and letting the boats spiral lazily around the lake while everyone eats treats he remembers from Tirion and lets their clothes dry on the shore...

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"No nudity taboo?"

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Cam eavesdrops a little on the sailing lesson but doesn't wind up sailing.

He flies, though.

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"No, sorry, are we bothering you? You can conjure me clothes if you want me to wear clothes, I am too lazy to go get mine right now..."

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"You are incredibly hot and I come from a culture where nudity is almost always meaningful so you'd have every right to feel--taken advantage of--by my looking at you naked but if you don't care I'm not going to object."

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"I am feeling so terribly taken advantage of, help, a girl thinks I'm pretty."

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"I--I mean--I don't know if you have an equivalent, but, um--it would at the very least have been wrong and creepy not to let you know that nudity is almost always. Sexual. In my culture." She's blushing so hard.

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"Hair! We have that around hair! Wearing my hair loose around you would be terribly inappropriate. But it's all nice and braided so you are entirely welcome to get adorably flustered - or, like I said, to put clothes on me if you want me to be wearing clothes..."

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She opens her mouth.

She closes her mouth.

She continues to be adorably flustered.

She doesn't put clothes on him.

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Awww.

 

Having sex with a daeva you summoned is against, like, several hundred laws and so that's several hundred reasons in addition to you being smart and pretty and helping us stop Melkor and and stuff why I would totally get a room if you wanted. 

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I am not in principle opposed but I like you a lot and I think if I sleep with you and spend a lot of time in close contact with you I'm liable to fall in love with you and I don't fall out of love easily.

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I mean, getting married to a daeva is against, like, an additional couple hundred laws -

 

I should heed the lecture I just gave my father about not being in a hurry.

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I don't think I'd want to get married to someone who was only doing it because it was illegal in a terrible system.

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Well, yes, notice how not married I am and the system is terrible. I'm just not thinking of falling in love with each other as an outcome we'd want to be scrupulously avoiding...

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No, see, I was bringing it up because I don't know how likely you are to fall in love and having me be in love with you but not vice-versa could be seriously awkward under the circumstances.

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I am reasonably sure I fell in love with you at Alqualondë? You grabbed him - everything was awful and you only must have had a little time to think of it and -

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Oh.

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I'm not, like, going to make a big thing out of it.

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Well, that's good, because Ada exists and we only forked after that happened.

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And for lots of other reasons, yeah. He reaches out to lazily pet Huan. 

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...Getting a room should probably wait until your dads and brothers have ceased to tolerate decompression time but otherwise I'm in favor.

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Okay. They'll be getting impatient any minute now, probably.

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It is in fact not that many more minutes. They start by arguing about some technical point, and then ask Edie for a few changes of clothes and a month's supply of food - "no," Tyelcormo objects, "give them two weeks' worth, they are being ridiculous," and then they stroll off back inside. 

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Edie gives them two weeks' worth and sneaks in extra calories so they don't hurt themselves as much if they try to live longer than two weeks on it.

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He gets dressed and watches them go. "It made sense, back before. It really was that urgent, and the urgency was terribly unhealthy for all of us. Here I think it's just force of habit and the only tool they have available to express that they care about it- and knowing about the other Valinor probably isn't helping any - ugh, the other version of my family's probably going to spend half a millenium working themselves to the bone in atonement and it won't even fix things  -"

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"And the other you can't fix it because his Huan is Not Okay after what happened to Valinor."

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"No, I imagine not." He reaches reflexively for his Huan, who is okay. "Maybe once we've got it sorted there'll be a way to visit and -

- and something. I'm not even sure what'd help, it wouldn't be a good occasion for declaring a regatta -"

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"I don't either but if there is a technical solution ten each of your dad and brother can probably fix it with all the time in the world."

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"Yeah. And there are dimensions with other magic systems - worst case we spend a while looking."

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She sits down next to him and hugs him with all four upper limbs.

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Wings are pretty fantastic.

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They are! I always felt like fairies get a raw deal, only getting the insect kind. I mean, they're pretty, but literally nothing else.

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Yours are pretty and also very comforting when trying for psychological health reasons not to think about there being multiple Melkors in the multiverse.

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We'll kill them all, she assures him.

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We will! We will kill them all with such excellent information security that no one else learns either how to make minds or how to hurt daeva, and then everyone will live as happily ever after as ten of my dad are even capable of - maybe they can be distracted with languages for a few centuries -

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Gosh, we'll have to find a lot of worlds to keep your dads supplied with languages that long.

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Languages are at least things they can't benefit from having ten around on, it's not as if they'd settle for the fact one of them knows some language...

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I wonder if any of them are liable to want to fork into daeva.

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Giggle. They might do that just for the languages. If Elves can even become daeva, I'm really not sure.

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Yeah, it'd be a risk.

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Well, now that we can bring anyone back -

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Yeah. I decided before I forked that if it didn't work then a few minutes divergent experience was little enough that if Ada had been lost she would essentially still be alive by virtue of my being alive, but.

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I'm glad we have this as an option but it is kind of readily complicated.

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Yeah. Well. If it helps, I don't think there's very good reason to think that an elf fork of an elf is less likely to be susceptible to daevafication than an elf fork of a demon.

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I was sort of assuming Elves didn't daevify because we have backups - maybe if you did the fork in a place Mandos couldn't reach -

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Yeah, I was imagining doing this in Hell like my own experiment.

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Then I can't think why it wouldn't work. Wonder what he'd be.

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You know him better than I do.

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It goes off personality?

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Best theory anyone's got.

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He'd want to be a demon, but I don't know - not sure what personality traits you, Cam, Melkor, Mandos and Varda have in common -

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Temperamental suitability to the magic, is how the hypothesis goes.

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Then he'd be a demon. Making stuff - that's him.

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I mean, one could also describe Emily as "making stuff" but she's an angel, there's a definite difference there...

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Yeah, engineering does not a demon make, but inventing a way to steal backups from Mandos so you could leave Valinor and go found a civilization -

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Yeah.

Your dad's really cool.

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He's amazing. 

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Except for the part about being terrible at self-care.

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He needs people. It's funny because he doesn't seek them out - like, Maitimo needs people, so he's extremely sociable, Macalaurë needs people, so he writes them heartbreakingly beautiful things, but my father needs people to support him and trust him and love him and value him other than for the things he produces and he copes with that by - producing more things. And people value those for their beauty or cleverness or whatever and then aggressively idealize their inventor onto a narrower and narrower pedestal -

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Eugh.

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He has us.

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That's something, anyway.

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Yeah. 

 

...we're almost certainly gonna come out of this with an interdimensional travel mechanism, you can go to Limbo and make it really nice for everyone there....

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Yes. Yes I can.

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I feel like we had tentative plans to ask Bar for a room -

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I'm in favor, she says, taking one of his hands and kissing the knuckles.

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"Bar -"

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Yes?

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"How much counterfeit money for a room?"

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In what currency and for what sort of room?

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"I guess Valinorean and the kind with a bed and a view of the stars?"

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And Bar names a reasonable figure and produces a key to room 5509-B.

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"Are there a ton of other people here who we just haven't met yet -"

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I do not disclose information about patrons who may or may not currently be occupying their rooms.

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"Fair enough. Thanks."

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You're welcome.

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"So...up four flights, or five?" Edie asks, folding her wings to make going up a stairwell less obstructed.

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"Dunno." He checks. "Four. If there're other people here I feel vaguely obliged to at some point say hi, ask if they happen to have a magic system that's shareable - Huan, want to stay down in the bar and let me know if anyone promising has come by -"

 

Huan shakes himself agreeably.

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"Yeah, I don't think going door-to-door is going to do us much good."

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"That'd be rude and Bar might kick us out or something which would be a disaster."

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"Also, if our number is any indication, there's a hella lot of doors."

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"Maybe if in a few centuries my father hasn't gotten anywhere and we're desperate."

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"Yeah, maybe."

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Their floor. The wings can come back out now, he likes those wings.

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"You know, I liked small spaces a lot better when I was human," she says, stretching them.

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"Tirion wasn't built for daeva per se but it didn't have anything that narrow. Elves deal with claustrophobia badly. Thus all the giant stunningly pretty starships."

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"I'm very fond of your giant stunningly pretty starships."

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"Without daeva they'd be totally impossible. You have to assemble them in orbit, the fuel costs are astronomical, and - well, we ended up getting very good at summoning, instead, bit easier -"

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"I'm certainly glad of it."

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"Us too. Glad you were willing to help us, glad after everything Maitimo still thought it was worth the chance -"

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"Yeah." She hugs him.

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Hugs. Deliciously illegal hugs. With wings.

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Winghugs: Are excellent. "Which way was our room again?"

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This direction. 

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"Bar does good work," she says when she sees it.

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"I'm currently Bar's biggest fan, this is - going to make such a difference. Also, the view is fantastic and the squid's lovely."

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"I was in this particular instance mostly referring to the view."

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"Back on Valinor they said we were called the Eldar because we loved the stars before we knew what they were. Father told me that when I was, like, six, and also told me that it was more impressive and spoke more of your character to love the stars with knowledge than with ignorance, and then he added over osanwë that some things should never be committed to recorded form anywhere but that one of those things was that someday we were headed for the stars."

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"Okay, yeah, your dad's amazing."

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He positively glows at her. Winghugs, again. "Figuring out how to redirect our backups from Mandos actually only took him a few decades, the hard part was making the mechanism that did it a mind in its own right, intelligent enough that a demon couldn't replicate it - and then making them so pretty that everyone thought their beauty was sufficient reason to care about them -"

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"Valar," she says, rolling her eyes. "Not that demonproofing 'em wouldn't be a good idea in any case, but still. Making 'em shouldn't be necessary in the first place."

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"Agreed. And now the Enemy has them."

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"Thus teaching that making things irreplicable doesn't necessarily make them actually demon-proof," she sighs.

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"There is still the melt everything, kill everyone, steal them method."

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"Yeah. Ugh."

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"We're gonna stop him. And we don't even need the backups now."

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"And no one must ever write down how."

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"Used to that, don't worry. Nelyo'll design us a nice misinformation campaign once we have him."

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"Excellent."

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"So lucky he got you."

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"I'm sure Cam and I aren't the only excellent demons in all of our Hell but yes."

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"Lots of people are good but not on something like this where being good is this complicated."

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"I dunno, 'save people, kill Melkor,' it's not that hard."

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"Let's hope."

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"Not that ethically hard," she amends. "I'm not saying pulling it off won't be difficult."

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"I mean, now we've got better options, but Cam's solution involved holing Valinor."

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"...I wonder how he dealt with all the less-than-three-year-olds."

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"Worth it, but Eru. Won't seem that way to people who lost someone."

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"I don't think I could kill every toddler on Valinor."

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"Don't think I could. Maitimo could. He could also probably draw a hundred circles and find himself a daeva that'd do it but it'd fuck him up forever."

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"I'm really glad we're not going to have to do that--but--how many were there, do you think--"

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"Elves don't have kids that often. And I don't know if their population was the same as ours. But - probably a couple hundred thousand."

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"Fuck."

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"Yeah."

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"Maybe your dads can invent a meat version of the chip-reader thing."

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"Probably. There shouldn't be anything they can't do."

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"Okay, then I'm going to stop worrying about it."

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"Good idea."

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So she kisses him, because this is both what they originally came up here for and an excellent distraction.

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And possibly vaguely unhealthy but whatever. Such a nice distraction. Anyone showed you how to send emotions - distracting, lot of fun -

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Don't think so.

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Edie: learning to sail! Thinking about hard problems! Excited about getting telepathy! Excitedly using her new telepathy!

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Oh.

Oh.

Oh.

Tyelcormo hugging her after she brought back Maitimo, Tyelcormo getting pissed off about gags--

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Yep, that's the idea. Edie confused at the idea she'd make demands of them in exchange for help - Edie trying to thread the needle of the horrible war -

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Tyelcormo telling her he was in love with her--Tyelcormo feeling love at her--

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He can do that!

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You were right, this is amazing, she gasps.

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Best chip feature - marriage involves this sort of emotional feedback loop thing that means sex gets you really high for several days until you figure out how to manage it -

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Marriage is chip-supported?

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Yeah, of course - I guess not of course, sorry, Maitimo obviously wouldn't have had it loaded and you got your stuff from him -

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That's really cool. How does it work, exactly, none of the ones I have rely on anyone else having anything...

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Yeah, you have to both load and activate it, it gives you this automatic knowledge of the other person's emotional state and things that people describe as new senses and unlimited range on osanwë - though not FTL communications -

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Wow. So is it unambiguously monogamous? Is forking going to interact weirdly with it?

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Dad's married, Curvo's married. I guess they might have deactivated it, dunno. It's not unambiguously monogamous, but the King had two wives and that was a fucking disaster so most people keep it low-key if they're trying something clever.

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How was it a disaster?

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He remarried when my grandmother was dealing with some serious postpartum depression after my dad was born, because he wanted more kids and she didn't, and the double bonds affected everyone badly and she killed herself and he had her brought back and she killed herself again after making it clear she was going to keep on doing it-

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...Seriously? Marrying someone else if you want more children and your partner doesn't makes some sense if your partner's okay with it, but he couldn't have waited? It's not like you guys have ticking biological clocks or anything!

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My grandfather was a really good king in some ways but he was a pretty lousy father. He improved with my father's half-siblings, but the very fact he'd improved so much itself caused some pain to my father.

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I'm sorry to hear that.

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I kind of ignored it most of the time. Politics. Guess everything'll be different once we come out of here anyway.

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If nothing else your dad probably outnumbers his half-siblings now.

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He does! And I don't know if they'll want to fork - maybe - they're not bad, really, just happen to overlap badly with my dad -

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Yeah, I'm not inclined to blame them for their dad being a dick.

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He messed up really badly but I don't think my father's helped by hearing that. For what it's worth. 

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Okay, I won't call his dad a dick in front of him.

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Thanks.

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She kisses him again.

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What a preferable activity. 

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Mm, yes. He's a very good kisser.

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He has had thousands of years of practice. She's lovely. She likes the emotion-sending so much, it's adorable.

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It's really really great!

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It is!

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You know I always expected that if I ended up in a relationship with a non-daeva I'd be the older one.

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Pretty sure I have thousands of years on you.

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If you have thousands of years then you definitely do I'm less than two hundred.

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I'm only a bit more than two hundred local years but Valinor years are ten times longer than Earth years.

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And here I thought you belonged in an art museum, not a history museum.

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It would really be a waste to have all that practice at kissing behind a display case in a museum.

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It's true, she purrs, pressing a little closer.

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If you'd like you can - unbraid my hair -

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Hm?

Oh, right--that was a thing--she does that.

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He sends what that feels like.

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Oh.

That's an Elf thing, it doesn't feel that good if someone does things to my hair--

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Figured, there's no way a species that wore it loose sometimes had it nearly as sensitive -

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Pity, it's lovely. I'm slightly jealous of Ada now.

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Could ask an angel to change it, probably, if you want it -

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I'll think about it. And meanwhile she'll run her fingers through his hair again.

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He'll moan delightedly.

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That is a good sound. She repeats the action that caused it, and asks, Where else are you sensitive, or should I find out empirically?

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Big fan of experimentation but hair's decidedly the most sensitive - for most Elves -

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Went with a wing-model that has fingers in an appropriate place, she points out smugly, and combs through his hair with her wing-fingers while beginning torso cartography.

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This is a delightful wingmodel and a delightful perk.

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It certainly is!

After a little while she says, So, I feel like this interaction would be improved with a reduced amount of clothing, thoughts?

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Her dress is not going to be indestructible and if she's attached to it she can remake it. He neatly rips it open at the seams.

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Okay, that was surprisingly hot.

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More advantages to demons, most people I'd have to worry they were attached to the clothing -

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Not so much a problem with me, no, she agrees, and interpolates the seams on his clothing.

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Convenient, that. He kisses her.

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Why are you this hot, it's problematic.

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What are the problems?

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It's unfair to literally every other guy in existence?

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Well, as the arbiters of fairness in the universe, once we've fixed every more pressing problem we shall have to make all the other guys a lot hotter.

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She laughs and kisses him some more.

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That is lovely. He is also open to other activities, now that they both have distractingly loose hair.

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Well, how does he feel about kisses being trailed down his jaw and neck to his collarbone?

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This is nice. Wings and kisses, he's probably going to be too distracted for a while to keep up even an osanwë conversation.

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Excellent. Edie's fully in favor of moving forward, but they're in no hurry, and it would be a shame not to be able to savor the intermediate steps.

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They are not in a hurry! Though it's technically possible that years will have passed downstairs and Huan'll miss him, that's a thing. Probably not worth worrying about.

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Enh, if it were terribly likely they probably would have been warned. Kisses in assorted locations and wandering hands.

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And more thought-sending, since she likes that.

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She really likes that.

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Fantastic.

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You're utterly lovely, she sighs happily.

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Glad we got you - those wings are lovely -

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I have good taste. In wings and boys.

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Who am I to contest that?

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Someone with abs you could grate carrots off, wow.

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Why would a demon be grating carrots - he nibbles on her ear -

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She whimpers a little and squirms--because--not--but r'member bein' human--

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I bet I'd have liked you when you were human but you're a demon and that's way hotter.

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There is nothing about this situation that is not extremely hot.

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Except the state of the world outside. 

 

He does not comment on this and nibbles some more instead.

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Edie is defining "situation" to exclude this! And reacting highly positively to nibbles.

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Oh, good. 

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And to his bare torso, because seriously, unf.

The span of wings required to lift someone a human size and weight off the ground is pretty broad indeed. If she kisses her way down from his collarbones across his amazing pecs and abs and--lower than that--she can still reach his hair with her wing-fingers.

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Aaaaah....Edie....

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Yes?

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You are delightful. Don't stop.

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I know I am. She doesn't stop.

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And eventually he will let mild worry at how long it's been downstairs prickle him into getting out of bed. But it's a long eventually. There are chip-loaded blessings for that.

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You're fantastic, she tells him, breathing heavily.

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So're you.

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So what blessings d'you have that let you keep up with a daeva this long?

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Hmm? Oh, Maitimo probably doesn't have those either - he's so boring - anyway, we have perfect autonomic control, we can consciously set our heartrate if we choose, most people get it for the sex applications but it's also useful if you're injured or whatever...

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Oh, he did and I do, I just sort of forgot about it.

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It's not much use if you haven't spent some time actively fiddling with it, it's overwhelming the first couple times.

Permalink Mark Unread

I'm a demon, I don't really need it, she shrugs.

Permalink Mark Unread

Right, fair enough. What even happens if you stop your heart, do you know?

Permalink Mark Unread

It would probably be uncomfortable.

Permalink Mark Unread

I wish I were a demon.

Permalink Mark Unread

It's pretty great! The infertility thing is probably less of a downside for men and it's, like, the only downside.

Permalink Mark Unread

It's enough of one that I'd feel awful about telling everyone on Earth that summoners become daeva, giving them a week, and then killing the Melkor.

Permalink Mark Unread

I mean, demons can make arbitrary things, if I really want kids I can hire a surrogate and make zygotes containing human-me--or for that matter Elf-me--'s DNA, and so could you if you were a demon, the only thing being a daeva actually prohibits me from is being pregnant, which is regrettable but less salient for the part of the population that couldn't do that anyway.

Permalink Mark Unread

That is less of an option if we blow up the world.

Permalink Mark Unread

True. I mean, we can probably at least convince a number of people large enough to form a stable reproductive population to evacuate.

 

Let's not talk about potentially having to blow up the world. You're dad's gonna fix it so we won't have to.

Permalink Mark Unread

Yeah. He is.

 

Want to go back downstairs, check on Huan - check how long it's been -

Permalink Mark Unread

That's probably a good idea, she sighs, and reluctantly starts getting out of the bed.

Permalink Mark Unread

Well she ripped his clothes so he is going to have to stand here until she makes him some.

Permalink Mark Unread

"D'you want the same clothes as before or something different?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Don't care - what I had on before is fine - "

Permalink Mark Unread

She puts on him something that's basically the same thing as before but a little more revealing.

Permalink Mark Unread

"That works too. I'd kiss you but I'm worried then we'd literally never get out of bed - and Cam's probably down there alone being all sad -"

Permalink Mark Unread

"We can kiss some more later. Let's go see what we can do about Cam's sad."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Even if, like, the actual problem is gonna take a time machine, probably some ways of existing in numb horror are more pleasant than others," he agrees, and they head downstairs.

Permalink Mark Unread

"Yeah. Ugh, what a mess."

Permalink Mark Unread

And they're back to the bar.

Permalink Mark Unread

Cam's sitting by the fireplace, reading a book and drinking cocoa.

Permalink Mark Unread

Well, that doesn't look obviously improvable by striking up a conversation, what do you think?

Permalink Mark Unread

Nah, interrupting someone who's reading is rarely gonna improve their mood.

Permalink Mark Unread

Wanna make me a movie to watch, I'm not much for books.

Permalink Mark Unread

D'you want something you're reasonably familiar with, something from my Hell, something from my Earth...?

Permalink Mark Unread

Something you like, don't care if it's from Hell or Earth.

Permalink Mark Unread

Hmm, okay--preference between a comedy with some romance or a romance with some comedy?

Permalink Mark Unread

The latter?

Permalink Mark Unread

Okay, Princess Bride it is.

Permalink Mark Unread

He is entertained by the ridiculous human movie and really confused about the convention that a wedding happens in public with someone reading lines.

Permalink Mark Unread

We don't have chips, she reminds him.

Permalink Mark Unread

So how do you have marriages at all?

Permalink Mark Unread

It's a social convention.

Permalink Mark Unread

Weird.

Permalink Mark Unread

What, do you expect us to not pair-bond when we can't have get-high-for-days sex?

Permalink Mark Unread

I'd expect people to pair up anyway, but 'hold a ceremony supervised by a guy in a funny hat in which you tell everyone that you're totally going to pair-bond right now' isn't how I'd have expected it to manifest - or is that just because the movie is ridiculous - 

Permalink Mark Unread

Nah. The guy in a funny hat's a priest, by the way.

Permalink Mark Unread

What are those?

Permalink Mark Unread

Uhh I think Maitimo said you guys used to worship the Valar before you figured out what they actually were...this is like that only not for the Valar or any being who's been proven to exist.

Permalink Mark Unread

 

Okay.

Permalink Mark Unread

It's kind of ridiculous.

Permalink Mark Unread

Well, I wasn't going to say so.

Permalink Mark Unread

I arguably belong to a religion but Judaism's different than most of them in that you can totally be One Of Us and keep the traditions and be a part of the community and stuff without actually believing in God.

Permalink Mark Unread

So they're sort of like guilds with an associated communal mythology which some people take seriously?

Permalink Mark Unread

Well, most of them aren't, most of them if you don't take the mythology seriously you're not really a member, but basically.

Permalink Mark Unread

Makes sense. 

The characters in the movie are having a sword fight. He watches with fascination.

Permalink Mark Unread

The scene where Inigo Montoya finally avenges his father's murder is definitely one of her favorites.

Permalink Mark Unread

He puts an arm around her and laughs and finds it very enjoyable.

Permalink Mark Unread

She drapes a wing around him and snuggles up and feels a warm, vicious satisfaction when the man with six fingers on his hand dies.

Permalink Mark Unread

He can't muster up much animosity for the man with six fingers while there are clouds of server dust floating around outside, but. Yeah. 


Cam still reading a book?

Permalink Mark Unread

He has finished the book and returned it to Bar and is now looking idly through sheet music on his computer.

Permalink Mark Unread

It is also possible he's just a very introverted person. 

Do we want to make a list of people we're going to need to plan how to end this thing as fast as possible when we let the time-stop go in a couple of centuries? he asks Edie.

Permalink Mark Unread

Might as well.

Permalink Mark Unread

Emily, Macalaurë for morale and possibly Maitimo just because he's on this ship and it's not any additional trouble and he'll think of things we haven't - are there skillsets we need - guess I should ask my dads that...

Permalink Mark Unread

You know these people better than I do. Except Emily.

Permalink Mark Unread

Maitimo knows these people. I actually mostly can't stand people, I didn't spend much time in the city.

Permalink Mark Unread

I'll feel the more flattered that you like me so much, then.

Permalink Mark Unread

Most people are terrible but that doesn't stop me from noticing ones who are great.

Permalink Mark Unread

Good, that'd be tragic. Snuggle.

Permalink Mark Unread

Yep. Can I have something to eat? Gosh, demons are so convenient.

Permalink Mark Unread

We are! Anything in particular?

Permalink Mark Unread

Not particularly.

Permalink Mark Unread

She makes each of them a fully-loaded Chicago-style hotdog.

Permalink Mark Unread

He has never had this before but pronounces it delightful.

Permalink Mark Unread

Oh, good, I thought you'd like it.

Permalink Mark Unread

You have great taste.

Permalink Mark Unread

Thanks! I will totally recommend you things from my world with my awesome powers.

Permalink Mark Unread

Great! And I can recommend things from mine, it's just that I didn't eat out much. Maitimo keeps nice restaurant menus on his computer to offer demons.

Permalink Mark Unread

I actually have been eating from Maitimo's restaurant menus lately.

Permalink Mark Unread

He's - so great, in a way that I have absolutely zero capacity or desire to imitate -

Permalink Mark Unread

He is pretty excellent! I dunno, I could see--not me me, exactly, but I could see one of my forks if I had to make a bunch trying to--learn to be more like him to distinguish themself without going against who we are, does that make sense?

Permalink Mark Unread

Yeah, definitely. If you're trying to grow in lots of different directions, 'Maitimo' is definitely a direction to grow in.

 

...if there were a way to fork Huan I still don't know if it'd appeal, I've never really wished there were more of me in the world...

Permalink Mark Unread

I wouldn't do it just for the sake of it but if we need a large number of trustworthy demons...probably most of the new forks would be off Ada, though, since as far as I know she hasn't somehow found the time while scouting a war zone to acquire a boyfriend.

Permalink Mark Unread

I apologize for complicating the forking situation, I didn't really consider that.

Permalink Mark Unread

Well, it would have been just as bad if we'd been explicitly waiting to date until I was done forking, and we're probably going to be here a while, so.

Permalink Mark Unread

If Maitimo were here he would have suggested I avoid doing things that are culturally loaded like swimming naked or whatever. But he is kind of a bore sometimes.

Permalink Mark Unread

Besides, we don't know that prolonged proximity wouldn't have done it anyway without that bringing it to a head, and it would be a minor disaster if I forked after falling in love with you and before realizing it.

Permalink Mark Unread

Yeah, that'd be awkward. Maybe we could go grab Cam's me, even if he's really upset...

Permalink Mark Unread

That sounds unfair to him.

Permalink Mark Unread

If Huan was in horrible pain I would be pretty resentful if people dragged me around for politics. But if they fixed it - which we're going to - and introduced me to the person who'd helped do it -

Permalink Mark Unread

I mean, I'm not saying we shouldn't introduce him and one of me once he's okay, I'm just saying it would be seriously suboptimal circumstances if the context were, 'she fell in love with your alt but he's taken so you'll do' rather than 'one of you and one of her hit it off really well why don't we set you up on a blind date or something.'

Permalink Mark Unread

Yeah, definitely.

Permalink Mark Unread

Ada'll be pleased.

Permalink Mark Unread

Mmm?

Permalink Mark Unread

About the prospect of being set up on a blind date with an alt of someone I get on so well with?

Permalink Mark Unread

Also probably about her job being stolen and the war over, because those are prerequisites!

Permalink Mark Unread

Yep.

Permalink Mark Unread

As much time as it takes. It has to be possible.

Permalink Mark Unread

Yeah. Might be a matter of meeting the right people as much as of the work they're doing, though.

Permalink Mark Unread

Yeah. If I wasn't worried it'd mess up the timestop I'd try a hundred more summonings, see if I get anyone from a world with decent tech -

Permalink Mark Unread

That'd be nice.

Permalink Mark Unread

You usually don't, most worlds are much lower tech. There used to be a lot of philosophical speculation about whether that meant there was a tech level at which civilizations tended to destroy themselves. 

Permalink Mark Unread

Or start lying about it so people don't do things like nonconsensual forking.

Permalink Mark Unread

Or that. I guess Hell really changes if it becomes widely known that demons can make minds.

Permalink Mark Unread

Ick, yeah.

Permalink Mark Unread

Some people might have figured it out and not publicized it.

Permalink Mark Unread

Better than figuring it out and publicising it.

Permalink Mark Unread

Definitely.

Permalink Mark Unread

I could probably check by conjuration.

Permalink Mark Unread

Good idea.

Permalink Mark Unread

She conjures "chips made in Hell."

She gets four.

"...Okay, no need to panic, these might just be mine and Emily's and Ada's and Amelia's...lemme check..." no further chips appear. "Okay yeah I think we're good."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Assuming that's the only way to pull it off. But. Yeah. Good, for now, and we'll hopefully figure something out given enough time..."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Yeah. Time we have."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Time we have. - they're geniuses, but normally science doesn't actually advance by locking geniuses in a room, there might be things we're missing because they can't exactly master every extant field, even in a century -"

Permalink Mark Unread

 

 

 

"Maybe we can get science textbooks from more advanced universes from Bar."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Oh, good idea. Bar?"

Permalink Mark Unread

You may need to be more specific.

Permalink Mark Unread

"Let's drag the geniuses downstairs and teach 'em some more language and make them get fresh air and request appropriate science textbooks."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Good idea." 

 

 

 

It takes a fair bit of dragging, despite the fact they admit it's been more than subjectively-two-weeks.

Permalink Mark Unread

Oooof course.

Hey, at least science textbooks, right?

Permalink Mark Unread

Can they have textbooks explaining the FTL engine from every civilization that's developed it, can they have math textbooks containing proofs P != NP, can they have biology textbooks that assume good protein assembly methods, that seems like a good start.

Permalink Mark Unread

They want only non-magical FTL engines, right? ...Some of these places have different physics and Bar cannot evaluate actual physics only published discoveries about physics. She's similarly unqualified to evaluate any of her proofs of and of not P≠NP. Biology's even more of a crapshoot than physics, although Bar has slightly more domain knowledge what with having to be able to feed all these people.

Permalink Mark Unread

Yes, only non-magical solutions there, they can't assume they'll have access to magic systems more useful than the local one. She doesn't need to evaluate the books, they can do that.

Permalink Mark Unread

........no they can't just narrow them down themselves that's not going to work.

They do not understand how many books she has.

She has all the books.

Permalink Mark Unread

They have all the time. Do they need a hundred of each of them.

Permalink Mark Unread

"See," he says to Edie, "now's an instance of a thing we want a Maitimo for."

Permalink Mark Unread

To convince them not to do that?

Permalink Mark Unread

Yeah, I'm not going to get anywhere.

Permalink Mark Unread

Yeah, okay.

She sticks her head out the door again. Maitimo? I need you to come convince your dad not to make inadvisable life choices.

Permalink Mark Unread

He's there a minute later. What unadvisable life choices - where are we -

Permalink Mark Unread

She hands him the explanatory napkins.

Permalink Mark Unread

"...okay. Your majesties," he says to the assortment of his father at the bar, "we seem to be all set if this is amenable to brute force and rather poorly equipped if it's not, and getting better at brute force will save us time but I don't think it increases our odds of success and it introduces quite the set of coordination problems - I trust ten of you not to miss something one of you would have noticed, but a hundred - 

- we have tools other than making copies of you at our disposal, let's use them to figure out how to get the books you actually want -"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Do you have suggestions?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Of course not, I just arrived here and need a while to even process what's going on. All I have is confidence in you and a long list of mistakes learned from in personnel management -"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Worlds whose reported physics are consistent with our own," says a Fëanor -

" - and who have published work on all of some fifteen topics that are still exploratory in our world, if that constraint's too narrow we can relax it -"

 

Permalink Mark Unread

And Maitimo, relaxing slightly, looks around the room and takes in Edie and Tyelcormo and Cam and - "okay, now may I have a more complete explanation?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"So I arrived here, was briefly confused, and got that stack of napkins. Then Cam" she gestures at him, "came in. He's from my Hell but was summoned by accident in a world similar to yours except that the Valar and Maiar were weird magic things and they didn't naively have summoning and there are humans on Endore instead of having a separate Earth and he only showed up after Alqualonde. And from him I learned that his Melkor had been uploading people to torture them at a significantly accelerated subjective time. And checked to see if ours was doing that. He is."

Permalink Mark Unread

 

"Fuck."

Permalink Mark Unread

"So now we're staying in Milliways until we have a way to take care of him once and for all with brief resumptions-of-objective-time solely to import people who are likely to be helpful."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Even assuming my fathers develop something completely perfect we're mid-leap, we will likely have to wait out a couple more days anyway. I guess you could write your alt and give her instructions on what to do, if it can be done from Endorë, so we don't lose that time..."

Permalink Mark Unread

"The other major resource Milliways offers besides stopped time and All Of The Books is access to inhabitants of other universes some of which have other kinds of magic."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Well. That's tremendous. There might not be a way to destroy daeva within physics, but maybe it can be done with outright magic..."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Oh, and something that must never, ever be written down--someone in Cam's version of your world figured out a way to turn daeva-made chips into viable-for-forking versions."

Permalink Mark Unread

"...should have inferred that from the crowd of my fathers running around. We may want to hide that until we have the Silmarils back, so we can claim it's the Silmarils making it possible to do. Does Cam's version of our world still have Melkor, does it have an exploitably different magic system..."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Ah...weird magic Valar can make oaths. He's under some extremely tight ones, now, but not dead."

Permalink Mark Unread

"So not a strategy we can emulate. Okay." He sits down. 

Permalink Mark Unread

"Yeah."

 

 

"He offered Cam the oaths in exchange for putting Valinor in a black hole. He didn't do it until he had some really fucking tight wording on the oath and a way of confirming that Melkor had actually sworn it and the forking-to-resurrect thing, but. That was a thing. While he's not in time-paused bars he's literally not doing anything else until everyone retrievable from Valinor is resurrected."

Permalink Mark Unread

 


"Do we have counterparts in that world -"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Yes."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Do you happen to know if Cam's resurrected that world's version of my mother -"

Permalink Mark Unread

"...Hadn't been aware your mother needed resurrecting at all."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Well, she lives in Valinor, so if Valinor got fed into a black hole she'd need resurrecting."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Ah. Didn't realize she hadn't come with. No idea if he's gotten to her yet."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I could really, really use her here but don't feel comfortable forking her. But if she's dead and hasn't been brought back yet -"

Permalink Mark Unread

Use her for what?

Permalink Mark Unread

She and my father balanced each other out really well, he can get very singleminded and also let his priorities get a little divorced from humanitarian ones and I honestly think he'll arrive at something better if she's around to - well, a couple centuries alone is not going to be good for his sanity - 

Permalink Mark Unread

Why'd she stay behind?

Permalink Mark Unread

Thought the project was totally hopeless and someone had better stick around to get us resurrected someday. 

Permalink Mark Unread

Ah. Well. Can't really blame her for that.

Other problem is I'm not sure Cam would remember if he'd brought her back already. He's brought back a lot of people and he never got chipped, let alone the memory blessings.

Permalink Mark Unread

Is there something you can conjure - Nerdanels extant on whatever planet Cam's putting them on -

Permalink Mark Unread

Yeah, okay.

She tries it.

It goes.

Sorry.

Permalink Mark Unread

It's all right. I can figure it out. 

 

I hope they're coping okay. 

Permalink Mark Unread

Tyelcormo and I keep dragging them downstairs to take breaks and learn demon languages and stuff. So far the shortest time-between-breaks has been more than two weeks when they had two weeks worth of food.

Permalink Mark Unread

So no, not really. 

 

I can do about a third of it and Tyelcormo can do about a third of it but one's wife isn't the same thing as one's children...

Permalink Mark Unread

Maybe we'll get lucky and find a way to magically teleport off and onto a mid-leap leaper and you can fetch your mom.

Permalink Mark Unread

Yeah, maybe. 

Permalink Mark Unread

Dunno what else to say.

 

...How d'you think she's going to cope with there suddenly being ten of your dad?

Permalink Mark Unread

I'd want to talk with her a lot. She'll feel - upset - if the arrangement is 'we need you to reconcile with him, the world's at stake' - that'll be hard on her - but I think I can bring it about differently, given the time and space...

Permalink Mark Unread

She sighs and shakes her head.

Shouldn't be hard, as long as we grab her while the geniuses aren't taking a break.

Permalink Mark Unread

All we need to do is invent magical teleportation.

Permalink Mark Unread

Mhm.

Geniuses work on the genius side, rest of us can watch the door.

Permalink Mark Unread

For a hundred years.

Permalink Mark Unread

Bar has all the media ever, she points out. And, uh. Not all of us were planning on staying downstairs all the time. In that time period.

Permalink Mark Unread

All the media ever! I should go grab it so I have more to offer demons who aren't you. And yeah, by all means don't spend the whole time sitting here.

Permalink Mark Unread

Don't run into your dad's problem concerning the fact that it's apparently All Of It!

Permalink Mark Unread

I can just ask for bestselling works lists from a thousand worlds that publish that, or something. Though I assume Bar does not give this out for free?

Permalink Mark Unread

She'd charge to conjure the things, dunno if she'd charge for the information.

Permalink Mark Unread

I'll go ask in a bit. Should I say hi to Cam or is he by preference not dealing with reminders of his war -

Permalink Mark Unread

So far the only information he has given about his preferences on that level is that he prefers not to practice having people care about his feelings on the topic.

Permalink Mark Unread

Okay.

 

So he stands up again and walks over to Cam and says 'hey, do you have a list of the yet-to-be-reembodied? As I understand this, if they want to go to Valinor they can walk out your door and if they want to help us with the war effort they can do that, so it's a less invasive than forking way to get some more expertise on the table."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Yeah, I've got a list and where I am in it marked, you want a copy?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Yes. Thank you."

Permalink Mark Unread

Cam hands him a list. "Prioritized some occupations - clustered families -"

Permalink Mark Unread

"That's sensible. We checked if my mother was back - I would expect my grandfather'd be a priority occupation, so maybe they're all back by now. That's good." And he beams at the list. "Oh, it is mostly the same people! That'll make this easier. 

 

Thank you."

Permalink Mark Unread

"You're welcome."

Permalink Mark Unread

"They're sorting over there for dimensions with different physics than ours. There'll be a magic system somewhere that can fix it."

Permalink Mark Unread

"That'd be nice. Bar can't sell anything magic, though, so waiting around for someone capable of helping to wander in seems like the only way to get novel magic introduced."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Or developing interdimensional transit that can target a dimension that we know has magic that'd do the trick."

Permalink Mark Unread

"...yeah, that'd do it too."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Fix all the Limbos, as a bonus. I think my fathers think that's an inside-a-century project made into a three-century one by developing only a version that is smart enough to be nonconjurable and can't be easily reverse-engineered into a version that's conjurable, but the point is that it is doable in principle."

Permalink Mark Unread

 

"Be nice to go to Limbo and fix it up. I've got blueprints, lying around, same folder as everything on terraforming Mars if anybody'd let me."

Permalink Mark Unread

"They wouldn't let you?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Customary on my Earth to summon demons gagged. Never been an exception to make the offer."

Permalink Mark Unread

"It's impressive demons keep answering summons. And I thought the laws in Valinor were annoyingly restrictive."

Permalink Mark Unread

Shrug. "There's lots of demons. Somebody'll always finds a reason to keep showing up."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Well, once we have interdimensional transit Limbo's all yours. Our dimension's associated Limbo too, though that might be less urgent because it's full of the kangaroo lizards and also it's been sixty millions years since their population grew so they actually kind of have enough of everything by now."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Thanks."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Thank you for stopping Melkor."

Permalink Mark Unread

 

"You're welcome."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I can find you some names on this list who, once they know, will be so glad you did."

Permalink Mark Unread

 

"That's - good to know, I guess - I'm not really handling briefing people as they wake up, your alt sent me some people to help with that -"

Permalink Mark Unread

"I'm not saying you should be giving a talk a hundred million times or whatever their incarnate population was, just that once it is fixed you should forgive yourself - and I'm going to need to tell my alt the same thing, what a nightmare for all of you-"

Permalink Mark Unread

Sigh.

Permalink Mark Unread

He sits down and starts looking through the list. 

Permalink Mark Unread

It's a long list. Cam's about halfway through it.

Permalink Mark Unread

He doesn't actually know fifty million people well enough to guess how they'd react to being resurrected here instead of back on Valinor, but he knows a sizable chunk of them that well and starts noting names as he goes. 

Permalink Mark Unread

Cam takes notes as he goes.

Permalink Mark Unread

"I'm mostly looking for people with math and engineering expertise it'd take even my father a long time to catch up on, and manufacturing expertise since we're going to have some things we have to build by hand - your world won't have anyone specializing in demon-proofing anyway... and I was hoping for anyone who could talk him down from working himself to death but looks like that falls to me and Tyelcormo, if my mother's already alive."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Is she?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"First thing I asked Edie to check. Her family would probably have been prioritized as useful occupations; she and my grandfather and my aunts and uncles and cousins on that side are all back."

 

He keeps reading. "Are these ages?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Yeah, I don't want to bring back little kids before their parents so I put ages in the list."

Permalink Mark Unread

"...what age do Elves get chipped at, in your world?"

Permalink Mark Unread

 

"...they're born that way. Grows in during pregnancy. Darndest thing. Are yours chipped in some less bizarre fashion?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"...yes, we get them demonically installed at three or four, earliest it's safe - I guess that couldn't be the answer in your world - they're born that way -"

Permalink Mark Unread

"It's really weird and I don't have a satisfactory answer for how it works."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Good thing, though, it means you didn't lose all the young children..."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Yikes. No. There's - there's a gap in which pregnancies I can save, if they have underdeveloped chips but they're too far along to be demonically instantiated as blastocysts and develop from there - but - no, not all the little children."

Permalink Mark Unread

(Edie, who has been nonintrusively listening in, breathes a deep sigh of relief.)

Permalink Mark Unread

He nods. "I should - should check if any of these names were expecting children, that'd be - very hard on someone..."

Permalink Mark Unread

"It's marked," murmurs Cam. "Asterisks. So I don't just naively make them with a mindless fetus."

Permalink Mark Unread

 

 

"Thanks."

Permalink Mark Unread

"...you're welcome."

Permalink Mark Unread

"We were prepared to blow up the Earth. Sitting here for a few centuries coming up with - not that - is lovely but doesn't change having been prepared to do that - but once I've fixed all this I am definitely finding my version in your universe a therapist."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Probably not a bad plan."

Permalink Mark Unread

More names. Tyelcormo comes up after an hour and raises an eyebrow and he sighs and hugs him. "No, you haven't added anybody to look after, I'll be fine."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Will you?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"I will remember to eat and drink and socialize and acquire the things I need to be productive and pleasant company."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Wasn't worried about that."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Then I question how you're picking things to be worried about."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Love you too, Maitimo. Oh, I meant to ask - would you hook up with a fork of yourself -"

 

Permalink Mark Unread

"No."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Apparently on the other Arda it's horribly offensive to ask, because the Valar are homophobes."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Huh, really?"

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"Yeah, really. I managed not to notice for a surprisingly long time. And then for a while my principal Valinor-related concern was that there might be someone who had gotten through a few seasons of Buffy the Vampire Slayer and then been forbidden to watch the rest of it."

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"Is Buffy the Vampire Slayer something we ought to be acquainted with?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"It's not the finest example of human media, but it's quippy and a salient example of a show in which a character is presented as heterosexual for a while and then gay after that because it was released during a shift in relevant norms."

Permalink Mark Unread

"My alt must have such a complex. Not that that belongs anywhere on our list of priorities -"

Permalink Mark Unread

"My Arda is actually not mid-catastrophe, I can lean out the door and send a drone to send him a message if there's a compelling reason."

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"This is clearly not a compelling reason. If I have questions for him I suppose I'll send them, but it's not the sort of complex I can unravel with a message, if I'm even right about it being an issue -"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Don't know, we weren't having conversations about his psychology."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I would hope not. It's not a line of conversation I'd be entertaining if time weren't stopped."

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Shrug.

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"Should I let you get back to being appropriately grim about things."

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"The appropriate level of grim about things is whichever makes us most productive -"

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"Love you, Nelyo. We're going to go sailing or something."

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"...we? I still don't know how to sail."

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"I am happy to teach you to sail if you'd like but I wasn't actually making claims on how you were gonna spend your time, just Edie and Huan and I. Maitimo'll feel better if we let him do everything useful he can do before he starts inventing pastimes - though we could have a game of Governor, with two demons you could have fantastic information setups -"

 

Maitimo looks up, at that.

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"...I don't even know what Governor is."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Neither do I."

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"Strategy game, Maitimo never tires of it even though he also never loses at it. You play in teams of two, take turns, you play a turn by writing orders to your subordinates. They start out with dubious reliability, one thing you can do with orders is tease out who is loyal and competent. The second player on the opposite team takes the orders, modifies them for the loyalty and reliability considerations, passes them back, and then there are rules for settling what happens if orders come into conflict - win condition is usually taking over the world -"

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"Huh. Sounds fun."

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"I'm game, pun unintended but endorsed."

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"Nelyo -"

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"Sure," he says, "reading through twenty million names and figuring out who we need is going to take me awhile. So the standard game of Governor has a built-in premise, which is that the King's floating island-city launches in a month and you want to be appointed its Governor. But people usually customize the premise - it's fun to work with a non-standard magic system, in particular, and anything set in Tirion would be an unfair advantage to those of us who know our way around it -"

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"We could set it on Earth, give them the edge."

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"How do we pick teams and positions thereon?"

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"I'm all for designing a nonstandard magic system."

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"Teams should probably each have one person who knows how to play, at least the first game, while you're getting the hang of it. Starting positions what'll be relevant is how many operatives you have and what resources they've got,  a game can be perfectly fair if one person's the President and the other a private citizen if they've got comparable sets of people-who'll-listen-to-them and resources they can actually bring to bear..."

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"Hmm. A church and a university, maybe, vying for control of a city-state..."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Putting one Elf on each team still leaves eight distinct team composition options if I understand correctly."

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"Really comes down to do you hate losing because if so you should be on Maitimo's team."

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"Eh, it's a game."

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"Then if you want to be top-level player - it involves more of the actual intrigue-pulling - you can play with me and Edie can second Maitimo."

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"Suits me."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Alright then."

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And they can set and negotiate starting conditions and clarify the rules and start.

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Cam likes this game.

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As he should, it's a great game. 

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Cam does not know how good beginners normally are at this game and doesn't seem particularly impressed with himself.

Permalink Mark Unread

Cam is astonishingly good at the game for a beginner, and he says so. It's probably not Tyelcormo.

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Tyelcormo can confirm it's not Tyelcormo.

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"Oh. Cool." Wag.

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Cam is not so good for a beginner that he's going to win.

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Which Cam takes very gracefully.

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He was kind of warned, after all. He thanks Tyelcormo for suggesting it and goes back to the list of names.

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Tyelcormo is looking dreamily at Edie again.

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She beams at him.

I was considering sabotaging you by being distracting but that would have been cheating and it's not like we needed it to win.

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No, you really didn't. You can be distracting now, if you'd like.

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She sends him a very detailed mental image of herself unbraiding her hair, extending it to a moderately ridiculous length with her demonic powers, and twirling so it fanned out behind her.

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This is in fact pretty distracting. Do we still have the room -

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I think so!

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He stands up. It's not like there's anything useful to do here, my fathers are going to be acquiring their books for a while, that'll be as good a break as anything I could suggest...

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Do we need to explain anything to Maitimo?

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If he didn't guess within five seconds I will cut off my hair and eat it.

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She sporfles. I guess the outfit's a bit of a giveaway.

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That and he's ridiculously perceptive about people.

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Cool. Is he likely to be weird about it?

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Nah. Sufficiently perceptive-about-people to not worry for me, which is the only thing that'd even maybe give him pause. Maitimo being aggressively straight-laced would be way more annoying if he expected it of other people. And he likes you. 

Permalink Mark Unread

Okay, good. It was him being concerned that I was taking advantage of you that I was worried about.

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I'd tell you to fuck off. My family's attitude about people trying to push us around probably isn't great for our life expectancy but it means no one'll ever worry about that.

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She beams and kisses him.

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Kisses are lovely! 

Permalink Mark Unread

Fully-consensual unpressurable kisses: Indeed highly excellent.

Permalink Mark Unread

Totally unpressurable, this is the family that responded to unbound daeva telling them what to do by going 'then stop us'. Also he could, like, dismiss her.

 

 

He is not remotely tempted to dismiss her.

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She is not remotely tempted to give him reason to! She is tempted to get the rest of the way to their room and then destroy his clothing.

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What a shame, it was such nice clothing.

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She would feel more conflicted about it if replacing it wasn't easier than snapping her fingers.

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There is that.

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So does she have to do her own too or is he going to literally rip her dress off her again, because that was hot.

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I live to serve, at least as long as that entails ripping dresses off stunningly pretty demons.

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Stunningly pretty, really?

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Oh, definitely. 

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Is that the being-in-love talking or am I just really your type?

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Really really my type. That's yet another reason Nelyo'd have guessed -

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Ha. She kisses him again. So what's your type?

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Dark hair, open-minded, finds it really important to do the right thing without finding it really important that people think you're good, can take me in a fight...

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Most of that doesn't directly have to do with prettiness, but wow.

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I am considering adding wings to the criteria, wings are pretty incredible.

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She fans them smugly. They are.

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Kisses?

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Mmm yes kisses.

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Fun playing Governor with you but next time shouldn't also play with my brother so we can flirt more - could switch teams, then you could be as distracting as you wanted -

Permalink Mark Unread

That sounds lovely.

Permalink Mark Unread

You're lovely.

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So're you.

Kisses and hair-tugging?

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What a great idea.

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You're even more gorgeous than usual when I'm making you feel good, she murmurs, kissing his jawline.

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What lovely incentives there.

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Definitely. And your hair is so soft, it's amazing.

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He makes delighted noises at hair-petting.

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Such lovely delighted noises. Such good incentives. She keeps doing that and nibbles on the tip of his ear.

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Aaaah.  Edie -

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Yes?

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Love you. Want you. 

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Oh--yes--definitely--she breathes, and moves her wings to twine all her fingers in his hair--and--

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And that will be the end of the conversation.

Permalink Mark Unread

Well, unless incoherent noises, gasped endearments, and fragments of names count as conversation.

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Yes, true, they'll keep that up! For quite a while!

Permalink Mark Unread

Daeva powers and chip blessings are convenient like that!

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And after a long time he will in fact fall asleep, Elves do that.

Permalink Mark Unread

Hmm. Go downstairs and be productive, or cuddles and maybe a recreational nap?

Yeah, cuddles win.

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They can go downstairs and be productive once he's rested, if they don't distract each other again.

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No promises.

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Well, maybe they'll distract each other for a while, but eventually they'll get downstairs.

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Edie considers escalating the revealingness of this version of the outfit a little bit.

Permalink Mark Unread

Elves won't notice and I don't think Cam'll appreciate it, so you should do whatever makes you happy.

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She dips the neckline about an inch lower and otherwise leaves it as it was.

It's kind of weird that most people in your culture wouldn't be affected by your naked body so much.

Permalink Mark Unread

Guess every culture has what it's used to... and people'd find it pretty, but that's just, like, a favor you're doing to society, going around being pretty. 

 

And as they head downstairs, "Cam's not going to worry you're up to something, is he?"

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"I don't think so."

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He picks out a couple hundred people it'd be valuable to have and narrows it down for likelihood of being okay with hanging around the person who holed Valinor and not making rude comments. He asks Cam 'you want to make people or would you prefer I ask Edie, whenever they come down?"

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"I can do it. I've got a room rented with the machine for it all set. You're going to explain?"

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"Yeah. They'll be able to tell I'm not him, and if we were grabbing off Endorë that'd lead immediately to the leap to 'in Enemy hands somehow'but they're Amanyar, I'm pretty sure they'll trust whatever I say."

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"Sure." Cam checks this list against his own to make sure there are no redundancies. He goes and prints off nondemonic chip instances of each. He brings them down and he makes bodies around them.

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"Hi, guys, how long's it been?"

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He explains to everyone what is going on, and since he selected them and since they are Amanyar they are very calm about this and universally want to go outside and sing and grieve, which is easy to facilitate.

 

"About a day and a half. Maybe it doesn't bother you but I think I'd find that time thing upsetting."

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"It can be annoying. At least we weren't gone for two months."

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"You were not! Though I suppose it's technically possible it's been two months for the engineers, someone could go check."

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He goes and checks. It has only been four days for the engineers and they are annoyed to have been interrupted.

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"I think I'm going to go outside and join them in singing, probably not for the whole mourning period but for a day or so."

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"Yeah, okay."

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No one conveniently walks into the bar with a magic system that'll solve all their problems.

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Yet.

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Cam continues with his project of loitering-and-decompressing. He plays the violin. He reads. He swims. He flies. He learns about other universes and tries their beverages. He toys with the idea of a chip-locked Elf-chip, but it doesn't work cause-and-effect-wise.

He will play Governor when there are games of Governor to be had.

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There are games of Governor to be had. When Edie and Tyelcormo are off, which they often are, they can just two-person it. Cam gets harder to beat. Cam's clever.

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He is!

He's pretty good at not wagging his tail when he does cunning things mid-game, at least if they're not done paying off, but there is totally tail-wagging after the first time he manages to win.

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"Congratulations! I quite literally hadn't lost in a century - that was brilliant - how far back did you have it set up -"

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"Inklings back here -" Cam finds the paper for turn three - "fleshed out the rest of it somewhere in the late twenties."

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"Wow. Well, congratulations. I cede my throne. Until the next game, which had better be pretty soon."

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"Sure, I'm not on a schedule."

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And he goes for a long walk around the lake, and mutters things occasionally at the water.

 

 

Permalink Mark Unread

think, he says to Edie a day later, my dear brother has a crush on Cam.

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Um.

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Really terrible circumstances for it, right? He's obviously not going to say anything and I bet he won't even drop any observable hints beyond, you know, spending far more time walking around the lake than is Maitimo-typical.

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Yeah, no kidding. I feel like we should do something about that but I'm not sure what...

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I'd suggest conjuring him a fork of someone else but dunno who he'd want, and if he wanted anyone that badly he'd have arranged to get them already and also, pretty shitty thing to do to some random boy cute enough my brother noticed him.

Permalink Mark Unread

That was not remotely the kind of thing I had in mind.

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I mean, a century's a pretty long time to be single and sitting around checking in on the engineers every few days? What kind of thing did you have in mind.

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Forcing him to talk about his feelings? Sounding out Cam for receptiveness as subtly as possible?

Permalink Mark Unread

I'm not very subtle. If you think you're subtle you're welcome to have a go but I expect Maitimo'd be annoyed with you if he found out and he'd probably find out.

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Not talking about it and taking excessive walks is still a dumb way to deal with it.

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I mean, maybe sort of? But, people skills, he has a feel for whether he has a chance, and if he doesn't, may as well get over it. It's the continuing to play Governor that's probably a bad idea.

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The continuing to play Governor is a great idea, it's been a long time since anyone's been able to match him at it. He makes an obsessive study of Cam's body language because he's trying to learn Governor tells. He plays more carefully.

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Cam plays more experiencedly. He's still pretty good at not making inopportune tail wags. ...He notices how he is being watched and gives the occasional misleading twitch.

Eventually he wins again.

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"....oh, clever. You know, I can't even say 'I made a silly mistake', I was in fact just outplayed.

 

 

 

I've been thinking about what to do after the war, since I don't think they're planning to leave without something that ends the war in five minutes. There's no records in Bar suggesting there's large-scale non-Milliways dimensional transit  - no political jurisdictions stretching across dimensions, or major trade routes, or even reliable communications. If my fathers get interdimensional communication - and that, unlike the travel, won't even need to be demon-safe - and if they get a way to establish portals which only require intelligent hardware for setup -

 - want the setting next game to be making a play for Emperor of the multiverse?"

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"Ooooh, sure. Ridiculously complicated setup but we've got all the time in the world."

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"Exactly! And maybe I can steal some ideas from the game, if they do invent the tech for the trade routes and etcetera I'm going to be exceedingly tempted to actually go be emperor of the multiverse."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Pretty sweet job title." Probably should be held by someone who has not committed any genocides.

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"Pretty useful job, too, going off random browsing of Bar's history books.

 

Lot'll depend on the exact tech base, and for the game setting we'll have to go off guesswork, so it may be less use than I'm hoping. But like you said, all the time in the world."

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"Yup." Setup. Setup setup setup.

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And occasional management of the expanded teams of engineers - he buys presents from Bar to leave for people he knows well enough to select good presents for, stops by every subjective afternoon with preferred foods, it's about all he can usefully do - 

 

And when they have a nice setup they can play for emperor of the multiverse. 

 

(His read is that if he were actually emperor of the multiverse this would still be a hard sell, for some reason. Maybe Cam doesn't like redheads. And he doesn't really want to wait that long.)

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Cam obliviously fails to explain exactly why this would be a hard sell. How inconvenient.

He plays in-character as someone who has not committed any genocides and really really wants to be emperor of the multiverse.

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He's inclined to not blame Cam for the genocide and would be delighted if he had the multiverse on offer. It's a long game. It's a fantastic game.

Permalink Mark Unread

 

And eventually in what is arguably a tie Cam's character ends up assassinated and Maitimo's winds up discredited and the succession rules that were in force at the moment wind up with a random NPC being the emperor of the multiverse.

Permalink Mark Unread

 


"...oh, for all the gold in Hell -" he looks at the notes and shakes his head and cannot stop giggling. "Good game."

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"Excellent game." Wag.

Permalink Mark Unread

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"I'm thinking scallops for dinner, want?"

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"That sounds delicious, thank you. Edie hopefully mentioned at some point that I have all of Tirion's restaurant menus in my desk drawer back on the ship -"

Permalink Mark Unread

"I don't think it ever came up, good to know though." Scallops.

Permalink Mark Unread

Yay, scallops. 

 

If it were impossible he'd go write a song and get over himself. But he's not sensing impossible, just very very difficult, and -

"Thank you for dinner. There were these snacks sold in Tirion -" he sends them - "could I have a couple dozen? I want to bring the engineering teams some."

 

They are assuming that Thauron in their world has terrifying biological weapons too and might not react well to Melkor's dismissal and/or destruction, so they're preparing an antidote to everything conjurable from Angband's bioweapons work.

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Cam provides snacks. He tries one. "Mm."

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"Aren't they delicious? You are welcome to conjure my desk drawer, I pay all the restaurant owners an ongoing royalty for the right to hand their menus out to daeva. Thank you for playing, that was the best game I think I've ever been a part of."

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"You're welcome. You have to pay royalties for it?" Cam wonders, producing the desk drawer.

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"Legal gray area. You can have whatever you want but if you serve it to us we're stealing. I spent several decades hammering out an intellectual and creative property law that satisfied everyone where daeva were concerned; it was very interesting work at the time, but now it's hard not to look back on all that as wasted time..."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I consider it fairly important that people be able to summon and pay daeva, ideally without having to weigh whether it's worth legal trouble."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I find myself very hard pressed to say nice things about the Valar but their enforcement on that was straightforward, reasonable, and uniform."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Good for them. After I let everybody know daeva existed on Earth IP law was kind of a mess for a while, that just didn't seem like a priority compared to ending material scarcity."

Permalink Mark Unread

Permalink Mark Unread

 

"What." He has ever done things besides commit genocide you know, he doesn't say.

Permalink Mark Unread

"You're Revelation?"

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"I don't usually mention it but this is not a usual social context," Cam shrugs.

Permalink Mark Unread

 

"Congratulations. That's - amazing. Good for you. Lucky, for Earth, to have someone with the perspective- and the nerve-"

Permalink Mark Unread

"And the abandoned house outside of town with the books on summoning, that was essential."

Permalink Mark Unread

He really wants to kiss him. It is really really such a shame that this is not an option, why is it not an option, it's a high-pressure situation but only sort of distantly so and Cam can't have complaints about his priorities - it's not that Cam's straight - he has never wanted to kiss someone and not seen how to pull it off before but he's also never met someone who ended material scarcity on his planet before -

 

well, he can end material scarcity on as many planets as required -

 

 

"You drew a circle out of a book you found in an abandoned house? I hope it was a thorough book."

Permalink Mark Unread

"It was pretty thorough, yeah, once I deciphered the handwriting, although the first one I drew I was just killing time, I was surprised as all get out when it worked."

Permalink Mark Unread

"A handwritten book. Wow. Do you keep a count of how many lives you've saved -"

Permalink Mark Unread

 

"...I'm in the black by most estimates. If you don't dock me credit for the fact that the people would've ended up in Limbo and continued to exist."

Permalink Mark Unread

"...wasn't what I meant. But. Congratulations. That's quite seriously the most impressive thing I have ever heard of. Uh, I'm tempted to hug you but I don't have relevant cultural context, pretty much all I've read of Earth are the history books..."

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"...it'd be a little weird but not super weird, I guess?"

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Short hug. Minimal weird. Maybe for his own sanity he should just pretend Cam is straight or something - he is personally commanding his heartbeat for the time being so he doesn't flush, or look at him too strangely - "Congratulations on ending material scarcity, I hope you have lots of opportunities to top that in the future, I'd better take these snacks upstairs while they're still warm..."

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"Sure," agrees Cam. He picks up his violin.

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And he distractedly climbs eight flights of stairs despite the fact his targets are on the third and then curls up in the stairwell and eats half the snacks himself and leans his head against the nearest cold stone surface and practices perfect bodily control and whimpers over osanwë directed at people who are safely in a different dimension.

Permalink Mark Unread

Cam obliviously delivers a concerto to the giant squid, and reads a book, and goes and sleeps because he can justify sleep, here.

Permalink Mark Unread

Okay, I'm back to brainstorming intervention ideas, if Maitimo's mopey enough for me to notice he's probably internally a puddle of attraction and despair.

Permalink Mark Unread

Yeah, okay.

She goes and finds Maitimo.

"What happened?"

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Maitimo eventually successfully delivered half the snacks. "Oh, nothing happened, I'm just letting irrelevant things occupy more of my attention since we're here for a century and it's getting out of hand. Did you know Cam is Revelation."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Oh, yeah, it came up before you came in."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I knew enough to be pretty impressed. Not sure if he's nonchalant about it by habit or out of self-flagellation at how he won his war..."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Well, it was more than a hundred years ago. And got him killed."

Permalink Mark Unread

"He didn't mention that part."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Some asshole with economic incentives to keep summoning a secret shot him as revenge."

Permalink Mark Unread

"As revenge? How - disappointing."

 

Sigh. 

Permalink Mark Unread

"Some people are assholes," she shrugs.

Permalink Mark Unread

"Yeah."

Permalink Mark Unread

"So that's what turned a manageable-sized crush into something large enough to cause significant moping?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Tyelcormo needs to mind his own business. It's not really significant moping. It's - nonzero moping, I'll grant that."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Tyelcormo cares and worries about you."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I know. This just isn't an occasion where it's very helpful. ...he is not interested but he's not categorically impossible to seduce, and I should probably just make up my mind one way or the other..."

Permalink Mark Unread

"It might help if you knew more about how he gets along with your alt."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I assume, ah, professionally? They were in the middle of a war, there's no version of me who wouldn't shut this down immediately if it happened in the middle of a war."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Yes, but 'professional' is not a comprehensive description."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Don't ask on my behalf but if it happened to come up and be more informative than 'professionally' I'd be interested in hearing it."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Does it count as asking on your behalf if, because we had this conversation, I'm now genuinely curious for my own sake."

Permalink Mark Unread

"You are welcome to be curious for your own sake."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Noted."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I'm pretty sure if I fix everything in the multiverse then it'll be workable, I just don't know if it'll be workable sooner."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Not sure I want to bet the multiverse is finite."

Permalink Mark Unread

"By the time I am the ruler of an empire spanning at least twelve dimensions and a hundred worlds and all of them are lovely places in the process of having immortal populations who want for nothing, I think if I ask Cam on a date he'll say yes. But that's a high bar and I cannot figure out why it's that high!"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Maybe it's because he hates himself?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"That's part of it."

Permalink Mark Unread

"...I think his you was involved with the whole 'extract oaths, hole Valinor' project. That. Might have something to do with it."

Permalink Mark Unread

"It was the right decision."

Permalink Mark Unread

"...Yyyyes but that doesn't mean it wouldn't cause negative emotional associations."

Permalink Mark Unread

"It is not as if I was planning to hit on him."

Permalink Mark Unread

"You weren't?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"...no? It won't work."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Well, I didn't mean now."

Permalink Mark Unread

"If I notice that hitting on him would work then I'd probably do it, but that'd mean whatever factors are present would have changed..."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Have you considered having a conversation with him about your feelings like a grownup."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Yes. I decided against."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Why?"

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"Usually what people get out of confessing their feelings to someone is the answer to the question of whether they are reciprocated; I have that answer. It's considered rude to ask someone out, get a no, and demand a reason. I already have the 'no', so the only thing to ask about would be the reason, and  'I like you, I've picked up you don't feel the same way, why, can I change that' is an inappropriate line of questioning that puts a lot of pressure on someone. I am very curious about the reasons but they're actually not my business. There are people who'd like the information 'I like you, I picked up you don't feel the same way, let's proceed exactly as we were' but I have to spend the next century around him and if I'm wrong about thinking he'd like to know that, the downside is ruining a very pleasant social relationship."

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"I guess that makes sense."

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"Maybe when I know him better and am more confident he'd want that information and take it in stride."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Yeah, okay. Still. I feel like erring on the side of behaving like a grownup is likely to lead to less drama in the long run."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Yes, once I know what space I'm navigating in and that I'm not - invoking painful memories or whatever -"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Okay. D'you want a hug?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Sure."

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She hugs him.

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"Is it obvious, or is it just Tyelcormo knowing what to look for?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"It is definitely not obvious to me when you're actually around him."

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He relaxes. "Thank you. We are very fortunate to have you."

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"It's mutual."

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"There are a lot of low-tech worlds out there, if they're pre-industrial it's actually easier because we can just drop modern infrastructure on them, and we can conjure up samples to work out biology from, have vaccines and perhaps chips for them...I really think we'll be able to do a lot more than end the war."

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"Chips are lethal for Men, 's why Ada and Amelia look like Elves."

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"Naively, sure, but there's probably a way to do it safely given a century to experiment."

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"Yeah, fair. I can make basement-dwellers for that."

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"Of a couple dozen species, not just humans. I am quite sincere about wanting to roll out to the whole multiverse as quickly as possible."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Uh-huh. Just let me know."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I will. Thanks."

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She goes downstairs.

"Hey," she tells Cam. "We haven't talked much since the Elves came in."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I haven't been here that long subjectively but yeah. What's on your mind?"

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"Alts. I think that one summoner from the my elf-universe's Earth was an alt of me and my sister simultaneously somehow, and that's weird, and you probably have an alt there, but the only alts we have for direct comparison are the Elves you've met here and in your elf-universe."

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"I haven't checked for one yet, and if blends of people are a thing he might not turn up on naive inspection..."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Yeah. I'm just wondering--how do they compare? What are your Maitimo and Tyelcormo like--you haven't really interacted much with this Feanaro and Curufin..."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Barely interacted with my Arda's Tyelcormo. We met, but only in passing. My Arda's Maitimo is competent, decent company, very bright - seems to match, pretty much, modulo universe differences, though obviously we never had time to do anything like play Governor considering."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Governor's fun."

 

"If they pretty much match--um, you've probably noticed I'm...dating...Tyelcormo now, and it's--we really like each other a lot, so--sorry to get arguably high school drama on you, but--knowing more things about his family is better than not..."

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"...I wound up learning some things I was not supposed to wind up learning and we're not closely acquainted enough that I could say what would and would not be unacceptable levels of gossip... and the 'modulo universe differences' thing may be a big deal..."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Closely acquainted enough in terms of not knowing what I'll react badly to hearing or not knowing how likely I am to repeat things?"

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"...not knowing if it's okay to tell you in the first place, nothing to do with where the information would go from there."

Permalink Mark Unread

"In general I prefer to know more rather than less things."

Permalink Mark Unread

 

"That's really not the point. I know things about people who may or may not substantially differ from your boyfriend's family which they did not mean to tell me and definitely didn't authorize me to repeat."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Oh, gotcha. Sorry, I misunderstood."

Permalink Mark Unread

"No harm done."

Permalink Mark Unread

"But--general impressions of how they work, interpersonally--would be nice."

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"I have almost none of that salient to Tyelcormo in particular... Fëanáro and sons seem to generally operate as or at least present as a cohesive unit very effective at accomplishing and delegating, I guess, not sure what implications that has for your personal life."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Okay, thanks anyway. I'm actually getting pretty curious about the stuff you shouldn't tell me, which probably means I need to go do something else until I forget about it because it's none of my business."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I have no idea if it even matches, but if it does and someone here tells you about it and says you can tell me I suppose I can mention my angle without further information containment failure."

Permalink Mark Unread

"That really doesn't help the curiosity go away, but thanks."

Permalink Mark Unread

"You're welcome."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I'm going to go for a walk around the lake, clear my head."

She does that.

And then she goes upstairs to find Maitimo again.

"So apparently a bunch of it relies on stuff he found out by accident and isn't going to tell me unless it's true for you too and I find out independently."

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"Well, that's inconvenient. I suppose I have to be unlike my alt in some respect I can't identify."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Oh?"

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"Well, there is something inappropriate to mention about me, and also he's disinterested in me beyond what's explainable by what's been mentioned, so it seems a safe guess?"

Permalink Mark Unread

 

 

"Okay."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I ordinarily do not spend my time like this but having literally limitless quantities of it is rather priority-distorting, there's only so many consecutive hours I can spend plotting to take over the multiverse..."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Yeah, there's that. I can recommend-slash-provide examples of my Earth's media, if that helps..."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I'll let you know."

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"Okay. Have as much fun-with-intrigue as you can from here."

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"I promise to do so responsibly!"

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"I appreciate it."

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There may be only so many hours he can spend plotting to take over the multiverse but it is a lot of hours. There are fifty or so dimensions identifiable from their written works as good places to land, add modern infrastructure, hand out vaccinations like candy and extend an invitation to join a federation. Some galaxies with lots of inhabited planets and no FTL yet. He occasionally asks the demons to conjure him things - the complete works of some society picked out from a book from Bar, basement-dwellers for a xenobiology team, diseases for very careful handling in a sealed lab room Bar can provide...

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Cam is willing to provide such things. "How are you planning to get any of these places barring a convenient patron?"

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"Fully-general interdimensional travel is probably going to be necessary to end the war, grab the Enemy and take him either somewhere there's a magic system under which daeva are destructible or somewhere he can't hurt anyone. It's possible there'll be some bizarre limitations on it, like we can't target places we haven't been or dimensions are not all adjacent or something, but given arbitrary amounts of time I'd expect to be able to do targeted travel to a place we have enough information about, and I can find them with Bar and then you two can conjure from there. 

I want portals, if we've just got jumping the infrastructure to administer anywhere is going to be a challenge. My fathers will have guessed I want this but they won't worry about it until after they've got an Enemy-stopping solution."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Reasonable priority ordering."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Yeah. Time's not necessarily stopped in all these other dimensions and some of them need us, but I think it's not a good idea to try to trade anything off against 'totally airtight Enemy solution'."

Permalink Mark Unread

Nod.

Permalink Mark Unread

"Your world we can leave paused until we find somewhere with magic that can fix it, if that seems wise."

Permalink Mark Unread

"That's the plan. I expect to be here for a while even if I don't think of any promising research projects I'd be usefully set to."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I find it immensely frustrating that on the engineering front, even with infinite time, anything I could do would be better done by making another copy of my father. We are sometimes bottlenecked on conjuring samples for the biology teams, when Edie's busy, so it's going faster with you around even if that's not really a useful concept."

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"Happy to make whatever they need," says Cam.

Permalink Mark Unread

"Holding up okay? The time dilation between here and the labs isn't always in our favor, we might still be looking at a century."

Permalink Mark Unread

"It's not that much different from killing time in Hell and the selection of reading material's better."

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The last time he'd have been killing time in Hell was before the war. Killing time in Hell'd probably be a bit different now.

 

"Okay. Let me know if you need anything, there's probably someone on the to-be-reembodied list who'd be good at it. Once I notice my head starting to go fuzzy from looking at nothing but infrastructure we can have another game, too, if you're interested."

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"Sure, anytime," says Cam. "'S a good game."

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"It really is!"

 

 

His head won't actually go fuzzy from looking at nothing but infrastructure - he's done that for Years on occasion - but he'll get itchy from the glaring absence of five conversations ongoing in his head at once. He solicits Cam for another game and mentions that he's considering disabling some of the blessings - "I set up my head to be maximally useful for coordinating half a million people, it's not very good at killing time."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Huh, it wasn't obvious to me when I was being tempted to chip myself that it'd make me less good at anything I can currently do."

Permalink Mark Unread

"If you give yourself the attentional capacity to have ten conversations over osanwë at once you'll be slightly worse at killing time just because you can read books faster and so forth, but I think it's really that after a couple thousand years of using that, it's disconcerting for there to be only a few people to talk to at all."

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"Maybe I'd be fine. Introvert."

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"Gotten anywhere on chips that don't do remote backups?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Nope. I was trying to figure out if there was a way to chiplock them but I think that just doesn't work conceptually, you have to be conscious to authorize things by chip... it'd only be an improvement if the only thing anyone ever wanted to do with chips was fork themselves."

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"Whereas what'd really be lovely is the opposite, something that gives the cognitive enhancements without making everyone with a chip a hostage of anyone who knows how they can be used for forking."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Yeah. Complicating matters is that yours and the kind from my world probably differ in various ways and neither's very well-understood."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Who developed a way to read to and write from them, did they die in the destruction of Valinor..."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Findekáno. He's alive."

Permalink Mark Unread

"And my world's him is on a different ship so we can't ask even alternate-universe-version consent for a fork - how long did it take, how long'll it take to reproduce..."

Permalink Mark Unread

"About six months, but it was very hush-hush and he had other work to keep on top of."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Then my fathers can probably get it working faster than that, see if they can get anywhere from there. Though I know they poked at the problem a couple times in the past, so it's not trivial. Why'd Findekáno end up doing it, is his version more into blessings-design than mine..."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I don't know much about his hobbies."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I'm also mildly surprised he was willing to hand you something that would make - that strategy to end the war - more appealing -"

Permalink Mark Unread

"I think he didn't know I had an offer on the table? I'm not totally clear on internal information dissemination habits of Elves. He was appalled when he realized."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Let's hope we can reproduce what he did without him, then, he'd probably find it unpleasant to work with me."

Permalink Mark Unread

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"I'm certain he'd consent to a fork if it helped fix it, but we shouldn't need it, and -

- at a guess, internal information dissemination would have looked like 'my alt kept that from him so he wouldn't prevent it', I hope my alt didn't keep it from him specifically so I could get the work that required it out of him -

- I realize this is very far down the list of horrifying things about the situation, and unlike many of the others it's fixable without any imported magic, but ugh."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Yeah."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Is this touching on something you'd prefer I not figure out or just things you'd prefer not to talk about, because I can drop it either way but in one case I'm going to keep puzzling over it..." and he's already guessing a lot of pieces - Findekáno invented a way to resurrect people, it was not the case that he was keeping things from him at that point -

Permalink Mark Unread

"I have no particular reason to care whether you know or not, I merely don't think althood is necessarily a guarantee that I can spill one hundred percent of relevant beans."

Permalink Mark Unread

"They were involved, they were taking out all of the war's psychological pressure on each other in a way that wouldn't have impeded effectiveness but that was immature and probably unpleasant for everyone involved and adjacent - did I die -"

Permalink Mark Unread

"You were in a city when it died. Enemy had a biowarfare hobby.

Everybody's chips were missing."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I wouldn't have stayed home if I'd known what I was risking, but - everyone in a city -"

Permalink Mark Unread

"It wasn't the only city-sized casualty."

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"We knew it was going to be ugly - we were at one point considering wiping out the orcs - but we might have been underestimating it."

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"Poor orcs," murmurs Cam.

Permalink Mark Unread

"If we merely find a way to dismiss him and he's anticipated we'll do this he can have them all drawing circles to bring him back. And we weren't, prior to having this opportunity, optimistic we could do anything better than finding a way to dismiss him."

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"Oh, I more than understand - just, I met some orcs. I feel generally sorry for orcs."

Permalink Mark Unread

"We conjure their media but I don't know much else about them."

Permalink Mark Unread

"On my Endorë most of them wound up swearing oaths to Melkor as what used to be a harmless coming of age ritual, and then..."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Swearing oaths as a coming of age ritual. Not that I blame them, just -"

Permalink Mark Unread

"The ones who belonged to irreligious families were encouraged to move up north and were quietly executed."

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"Chipped - we can bring them back too, we can't do anything about the oaths - maybe there's a research project, seeing if you can write to a chip a version of a person without an oath they swore -"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Yeah, I'm going back to Endorë after I'm done with Valinor, that's the plan. Don't have a way to excise oaths at this time." Considered it with your alt but let's not bring that up.

Permalink Mark Unread

"...again, something I shouldn't know or something you prefer not to talk about -"

Permalink Mark Unread

 

Sigh. "You're very hard not to gossip at, you know that?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"I'm very easy not to gossip at! You just have to let me know that I'm not supposed to!"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Eh, the thing I actually didn't want to say was that they were involved, since that's a secret I only know because they were calibrating their discretion for everybody around them wearing homophobia goggles... there was brief consideration of resurrecting a you-instance prior to a stupid oath he'd sworn about Silmarils or by somehow extracting that content, wound up not going for that."

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"Yeah, it's going to require a seriously dubious set of experiments to get that right and I don't mind instances of me being the test subject but I'd feel differently about it during the war when I needed my head untampered with - it'd be a problem for me too if I were involved with my cousin, for different reasons, but I don't think the reasons extend far enough for it to be inconvenient for me that there's an alternate universe where we are. Or, uh, were."

Permalink Mark Unread

"What's the problem in your version?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"He's my cousin."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Oh, okay."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I'm trying to think of a way to remove oaths without reading through lots of chips of people swearing oaths and seeing what happens if we excise, write, and embody..."

Permalink Mark Unread

"You could get before-and-after chips to read but that won't tell you what'll happen if you just delete the relevant bits."

Permalink Mark Unread

"There are enough orcs it's probably worth doing some vaguely horrifying experiments while we're here. I'll set up a team."

Permalink Mark Unread

"The orcs are entirely capable of living peacefully when the Enemy's not fucking with them. Killing and reembodying them all seems extreme."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Oh, I don't think we should touch your set. Our set still has the problem that they'll all try summoning the Enemy back."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Which means you have to kill them all anyway unless you can outright kill him, but once you've got him contained - I assume you're not just going to leave him in his Hell? - tampering further with the orcs seems likely unnecessary unless yours have different oaths or something."

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"We don't know yet. Unlike yours, ours know about daeva and important information won't be conjurable. And we are definitely not planning on leaving him in his Hell but if it turns out that every extant magic system's way of killing daeva actually does nothing or just dismisses them, which is on our list of possible outcomes, then the best we've got is 'summon him under a really tight binding, leave him somewhere far away' and it would not surprise me at all if orcs are ordered to find and kill his summoner in that contingency."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Fair enough."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I also don't know about orcs but expect lots of people'd prefer, if they've been killed anyway, to be brought back without oaths they were coerced into."

Permalink Mark Unread

"It sounded like mostly soft coercion, but yeah."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I should have my people all file advance directives on things like that.

 

Anyway. Game?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Sure."

Permalink Mark Unread

It's a good game.

 

He coordinates a team to try to figure out reading and writing to chips and from there perhaps how to make ones that have fewer serious vulnerabilities, or how to erase oaths.

Permalink Mark Unread

And of course none of Findekáno's research is written down but Cam can say what he knows about the process.

Permalink Mark Unread

And the team is very confused that he's not being brought in, and Maitimo tells them they're really trying to fork as few people as possible.

 

They get to work.

Permalink Mark Unread

Cam kills time, and makes things, and tries to think of more useful occupations for himself.

Permalink Mark Unread

Does he want to help plan for sudden access to the multiverse, because the Fëanors have confirmed that in a few subjective centuries they can definitely have non-conjurable tech that can set up portals and an empire spanning dimensions should be very workable.

Permalink Mark Unread

...yes. He would like that.

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Great! They've yet to find anyone in Bar's books who's significantly ahead of them, though there are some inventions they'll be aggressively copying, and they're actually probably going to start first on dimensions that are pre-industrial both because the gains are greater and because it's more straightforward for a demon to drop modern infrastructure on them - there are decisions to make on portal locations, on how to exercise authority locally, there's the question of whether summoning works in worlds where there aren't references to it -

Permalink Mark Unread

Cam's got all kinds of ideas about terraforming if they want to do any terraforming, and infrastructure notions from his If I Ever Travel To Limbo folder. His opinions about portal locations and the transmission of authority through them depend substantially on how subject to sabotage or other failure the portals might be. He suspects summoning does not work by default in his own Arda, that there was something stopping it from working most of the time and he got through by some coincidence, and then the Valar hedged it out, and now, well, now it works...

Permalink Mark Unread

"So the something stopping it from working most of the time was probably a generalizable protection they had in place, and then narrowed, and it would work by default in dimensions without powerful beings present? Maybe we can check by dimension for circles with bindings, there'd be some valid circles anyway but it is vanishingly unlikely anyone'd do circles with bindings unless it works.

 

 

...maybe we should check for materials from other Ardas, if there's two..."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Multiple Ardas, multiple sets of daeva worlds..."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Oh, the latter we knew about, we developed cross-dimensional summoning on purpose. We actually thought all worlds had the same magic system and each had accompanying daeva worlds until we got here, or we'd have tried dimensional transit sooner."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Oh, how's cross-dimensional summoning work?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"You add a ring to the circle, looks like this -" he pulls one up. "Can't aim for characteristics of dimensions but can aim for specific ones if you know how to specify them, just like you can't aim for characteristics of demons but you can summon someone in particular. It makes payment a lot easier, we've got entirely different media here, and shiny technology - I'd have had a hard time paying anyone local enough for 'a fleet of starships', and I thought I only had the one soul..."

Permalink Mark Unread

"You know that's a myth, right?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Sorry, what's a myth?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Stealing souls? ...I guess with the chips it might be less so."

Permalink Mark Unread

"It happens. Not on Valinor, the minimum legal binding is enough to prevent it, but it happens."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Okay, with human summoners it's a myth."

Permalink Mark Unread

"And yet it's still a concept? Weird."

Permalink Mark Unread

"There's a lot of weird cultural baggage around daeva species."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Most of our baggage comes from being ruled by them."

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"Earth fiction and religion features beings popularized as superficially resembling fairies and demons and angels - fairies not so much the religion part - and our common names in most human languages are cognates with those beings and people accordingly expect tricky alien fairies and benign generous angels and vicious evil demons."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Well, that's dangerous and inconvenient. Edie mentioned that gag bindings were standard for demons on Earth, which. How does anyone negotiate anything."

Permalink Mark Unread

"They propose a deal and we can say 'yes summoner' and 'no summoner' and I have a tail because that doesn't count toward the gag if I wag it or whatever."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Is that why the tail? It's cute. Very expressive."

Permalink Mark Unread

"That's the idea! Didn't get me much practical improvement in summon negotiations but I was always a pushover anyway."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I asked Edie for a fleet of ships, and she said lovely but could I summon her sister, and then she looked at the blueprints and went 'some of these are definitely warships, can you explain yourself?' and I said 'well, we might have a war if we can in doing so distract the Enemy enough to partially evacuate the planet," and I cannot imagine how any of that would have worked with 'yes', 'no', and a tail."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Yeah, this is why my parents didn't know I was okay until they died too."

Permalink Mark Unread

"You died sooner than your parents?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"I was twenty-two."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Even for mortal races that's really young, right?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"It's a few years into adulthood, but yeah."

Permalink Mark Unread

"What happened?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Guy who didn't like that I'd publicized summoning figured out who I was - I think maybe a daeva identified me to him - tracked me down, walked into the university where I was teaching intro bindings, shot me in the head. I usually save this story for occasions where I can begin a sentence with 'speaking as a murder victim, I' but it hasn't felt appropriate recently -"

Permalink Mark Unread

"I'm sorry.

 

 

Twenty-two. What a loss to your world."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Didn't really have a sequel to Revelation lined up."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I have this feeling you'd have eventually come up with something."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Maybe."

Permalink Mark Unread

 

Aaaaaarrrrrrggghhhh dear alt from stupid magic Valar world did you realize what you were doing to me this is all your fault.

"Want to keep developing this or does too much hinge on details we won't be able to know until we've got interdimensional travel up and running?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Put it on the back burner, I guess. No plan survives contact with the multiverse but we might come up with something, at this point it just doesn't seem to get likelier with concerted effort."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Sure. Game?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Sure."

Game!

Permalink Mark Unread

Yay what fun a couple decades of this are going to drive him spare that tail that person who is incidentally Revelation

they could at least, like, hook up or something, but he has no idea how to pull that off either and if he's going to be dwelling on things he can't pull off they may as well be what he actually wants -

the age-old problem, what do you offer a demon -

Permalink Mark Unread

Apparently you offer a demon all the riches of your island nation in tribute, that seems to be what he's angling for here.

Permalink Mark Unread

Yeah, he's definitely not playing his best, he's distracted, why would he possibly be distracted, nope, the island nation's not paying all their riches in tribute, does whoever suggested that understand how capital works, I am literally doing you a favor by offering 5% tribute, you will get more riches off this island nation, look, here are charts. And incidentally I am going to convince your heir to stab you in your sleep.

 

And incidentally - no, it's really not incidentally - stop wagging your tail I can't play like this...

Permalink Mark Unread

Tail continues to wag! The heir was poisoned weeks ago according to this forensic report on why he dropped dead in the hallway and it super looks like Maitimo did it! Gosh!

Permalink Mark Unread

Yep! As a favor! Because the heir was plotting to assassinate you, look, I've got proof.

Permalink Mark Unread

Hmmmm proof seems dubious it seems more likely that you were just being a dick because of the tribute thing now this other country is mad at you.

Permalink Mark Unread

Perhaps they'll find the proof more convincing if it's sent with this year's entire internal intelligence portfolio on your country, it'll help establish a baseline and also is what I would do if I were being a dick because of the tribute thing which I'm now tempted to do despite originally having been eminently reasonable about the tribute thing. Is there another heir named, what's the best angle on them.

Permalink Mark Unread

Several items in that portfolio are conclusively provable false! Especially now that the new heir is the unborn child of the other country's princess who Cam has taken up with!

Permalink Mark Unread

Well, she's going to die.

 

 

 

This is probably unhealthy or something. It's also as likely as not to lose him the game. He starts putting pieces in place for it anyway.

Permalink Mark Unread

The princess dies and Maitimo is overextended and the princess's country is enraged and Cam wins.

"Wow, you really had it in for Princess I Forget What I Named Her."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Got a bit fixated on it, yeah. Good game."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Anytime. You have something on your mind?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Yeah, I should probably go for a walk or something. Write a song. Not sure."

Permalink Mark Unread

"You write songs?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"...yes? Not professionally, but as much as anyone..."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Most humans don't."

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"Most Elves do. Normally I scarcely bother because Macalaurë's better at it -" and so's Findekáno - "but he's not here to be deeply unimpressed, and even if he were here it's - not something I could work out internally by having him write a song about it..."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I write the occasional song but I've never found it much use as a processing tool. Well. Whatever works for you."

Permalink Mark Unread

We could write a song together, he does not say.

 

He goes for a walk. And then a swim. And then another walk. He composes a song.

 

He reads more books from various worlds.

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"Are you sure you don't want to talk about your feelings like a grown-up?" Edie asks when she has observed enough of his behavior to warrant this. "I mean. Even if you're dead set against talking to him like a grownup it might help to vent, and here I am, already knows why you're moping, not gonna be a dick about it."

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"There is not a great deal to discuss? Usually at this point I'd observe that it's impeding me and get over it because I owe my people better than that, but that doesn't apply to the situation particularly, and I am not experiencing any motivation to get over it for my own sake."

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"You are moping."

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"...yes?"

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"Unless you have peculiar tastes I cannot imagine that that is as fun as not that."

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"Right but getting over him would mean committing myself to a course of action that involves never ever having him and this is not very appealing."

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"I am not suggesting you get over him, I'm suggesting you talk about it. Because this often helps one's emotional state even when nothing actionable is drawn from it. Sharing is Caring."

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"I like Cam. He's great. I think if I asked him out he'd say no and I think if I instead wait until I'm emperor of the multiverse he'll say yes but the interim is going to be really annoying."

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"What do you like about him?"

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"His world had material scarcity and he ended it! He has a tail for communication purposes! He beats me at Governor! He has a really excellent sense of humor which he currently mostly doesn't feel he has permission to deploy and which is still really excellent!"

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"Okay, why do you think he would say no now but not once you're emperor of the multiverse?"

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"He doesn't know me very well, my alt apparently had endless relationship drama and he hasn't actually seen me handle conflict effectively or handle relationships maturely so he doesn't have anything to go off, and I'm very far outside my element. Once I am emperor of the multiverse then I can ask him if he wants to be emperor of the muitiverse with me and he does want that, sufficiently so that he'd probably be willing to give it a try and I am capable of handling relationships with maturity when I'm prioritizing that so if he is willing to give it a try I think it will go fine."

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...She refrains from commenting on his apparent emotional maturity.

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"I know. I am usually around more than three other people at some point over the course of a year and it turns out that lots of my life management relies on this. Though observe that all I've done is spend time that did not have any other demands on it composing sad songs."

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Well, spending as much time as he has been writing sad songs is sorta worrying for itself. She's worried about him, not about his functionality.

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"That I usually outsource. Concern for my wellbeing, I mean. I don't have an intuition for it."

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Well, okay, fine, it's not like there's that many other people around, he can outsource it to her. Not the best possible solution but they're working from a limited set.

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"I think I should stop playing Governor. If he asks why I'll answer honestly."

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"If you don't mind an inevitable victory I'm still game to play."

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"Sounds fun, let's."

 

 

 

 

At some point Cam will notice that Maitimo demurs when Governor is suggested.

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"What," he says after the third time this happens, "did you get tired of losing?"

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Aaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh he looks so smug and it's so hot and that tail

 

maybe there's another Cam somewhere in the multiverse aaargh.

 

 

 

 

 

"No. Uh, actually, I noticed I was developing feelings for you, and then you told me you were Revelation, and that was fairly distracting. And losing to you at Governor is fairly distracting. I'm thinking that probably the best thing is for me to just get over this, is that right?"

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"Oh.

"...this really shouldn't come as such a surprise, I guess, your alt told me I was his type."

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"I'm surprised it came up, during the war I would have significantly more pressing things on my mind."

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"He was explaining why Findekáno was acting weird, which was apparently because Findekáno thought he'd seduced me or something?"

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"I want to meet my alt but at this point mostly out of morbid curiosity. Anyway, yes. People who end material scarcity on their home world by the age of 22: my type. And when I said the tail was adorable I meant it, and -"

Sigh. 

"Just give me a couple of months, it'd be even less than that if I had anything to do, and we can play some more when I'm less distracted."

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Sigh. "It's really not fair to judge you based on your alt's behavior, I should stop that."

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aaaahhhhhhhhhhhhh

Blink.

"I did not bring this up to demand you be - fair about anything in particular, just mentioned it because you asked. But it doesn't sound like we have much in common in our personal lives, no."

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"I didn't say 'I will acquiesce to this demand you totally made', I said, 'it's really not fair'."

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"Anyway. I will let you know when I am next in the mood to lose at Governor."

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"...okay."

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"Is that...not the best way to handle this? I mean, I can also, delightedly, ask you out, I just didn't get the sense that'd be particularly welcome..."

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"...kinda not in the right mental place to even seriously think about it. Also we live in a bar, I'm not sure where 'out' would be."

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"Yeah, I figured. Couple months. Sorry."

 

hahaha that's such a lie he's definitely not going to come out of this conversation better equipped to get over it -

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"Okay."

The tail: it does not wag.

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See and now he's made Cam sad mature communication really does not have much to recommend it.

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"And now we get to play 'how long is a couple months for anybody else'..." Sigh. Away he walks.

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Aaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.

 

 

He at least tries. He gives it six subjective months.

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Cam doesn't bug him about it. Cam makes things and flies around and plays violin and reads and is very hard to catch at wagging his tail.

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Well, what is he really good at? Lying. He's fantastic at that.

So after six months he says to Cam, "I had a setting idea, what do you think of it?"

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"I'm still not chipped and cannot read your mind, you will have to actually describe it to me."

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"Right, right, I just meant, is it a good time to run it by you."

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"Yeah, sure, you're all - undistracted or whatever you were doing?"

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"Over you? Yes. You were very hard to get over, if you're the sort of person who takes that as a compliment. So the setting..."

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Cam looks like he isn't sure if it's a compliment or not, but he will listen attentively to the setting with one and a half tail-wags and play the game.

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He will be not at all distracted, he will play like winning the game means winning Cam somehow which is not how anything works, he will be very back to normal.

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It's very impressive. Cam loses.

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"Good game."

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"I'm glad you're up to it again."

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aaaaaarggghh 

"Yeah, me too."

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"Write any good songs lately?" Cam wonders. "Or is that not part of the process?"

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"They all seem pretty ridiculous in hindsight. I guess that's what a crush will do to you."

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"Should I not have asked, is this like asking to read people's awkward middle school goth poetry or something?"

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"I don't think I have the right cultural reference points. If I write a pretty song I will let you know all about it."

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"Okay. None of mine have lyrics, that puts a ceiling on how embarrassing they can be."

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"Ah, see, all Elf songs are meant for singing."

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"All of them?"

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"Well, not all of it, but certainly most, and even the songs that don't have words people'll invent words to sing to them. We really like singing."

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"I did pick up on that but there's entire genres of music you lose that way..."

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"Do you have recommendations for what I'm missing?"

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"I mostly know violin stuff... hmm..." He compiles a list of a couple dozen assorted things and deems it good and offers Maitimo a mixtape.

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aaaaaaahhh

"Thanks! I will listen to it next time I'm wandering lakeside, I can't work and listen to new music at the same time."

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"Can't you? Don't you have the tons-of-conversations-at-once thing?"

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"...I probably could now that I'm not having multiple conversations, yeah. Might be just habit."

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"Walking works too, whatever, let me know. Oh, and if you have listened to any human music recorded between 1970 and 2035 it will retroactively seem really unoriginal after you listen to Pachelbel's Canon."

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"Good to know! We should really grab a Macalaurë at some point, I'm sure he won't mind it at all and it'll keep the engineers sane. Well, saner."

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"I'm really not sure how you come by this confidence. Do you normally spend lots of time discussing wacky hypotheticals like forking with your relatives?"

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"No, but I can model them very well and all of my peoples' first reaction would be 'I want to be of service to my King and people in whatever sense I can' and most of their second reaction would be 'oh, cool, now I can study twice as many things.'"

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"That's a suspicious lack of reaction variety."

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"The people who didn't feel that way didn't come with."

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"...still a suspicious lack of reaction variety, honestly, maybe it's an Elf thing."

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"Maybe. If I'm ever wrong you can stop trusting me on that, fair?"

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"I suppose. That's still one fork who'd have to come into existence on your say-so and then tell you off about it such that I found out..."

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"I will tell you if it ever comes to my attention that someone'd prefer not to have been forked, and I'll endeavor to learn the truth about that."

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"Okay."

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Notice how I did not fork myself a boy I could sleep with even though it'd help.

"I recognize it's not something to take lightly."

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"I'd like to meet an alt of myself but feel very disinclined to fork, personally."

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"We were going to try summoning you from our native dimension, since apparently you exist in our native dimension - or, well, Revelation does - but Edie was slightly worried that'd do things to the time-stop."

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"Yeah, it seems likely to do something to the time-stop, and also if Revelation there is not me it's not obvious how you'd find out who it was and summon them."

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"Complete works of the person who wrote the relevant blog posts won't do it?"

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"...there weren't blog posts involved. I was actually pretty careful with my anonymity, the fact that a guy tracked me down was genuinely surprising."

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"How did you do it?"

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"Bunch of daeva making simultaneous appearances in various places and dispensing books, which I abridged and typeset from the one I found rather than writing outright."

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"...clever. Well, we can check 'complete works of this universe's Cam' even if we don't have a way to determine whether this universe's Cam was Revelation, and if it comes up empty, okay, must be someone else."

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"Yeah."

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He waits. Maybe he can win over a different Cam.

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Cam tries some things.

"...not a me. And I never did think of any good way to learn who I was without already having it guessed and they've covered all the same tracks."

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"That's too bad. That it's not a you, I mean." Since that one wouldn't be traumatized by the recent war and also biased against having anything to do with me.

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"Yeah. Would've been neat."

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"Also it's very weird that a similar thing would happen at the same time without the same person motivating it."

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"Yeah. Edie said she found a sort of mashup of herself and her sister but I don't have anyone obvious to mash up with... checked for my parents and they're not there either."

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"So, two Earths with the same history but not precisely the same people, two Ardas with the same people despite totally different underlying mechanics of society... and they are the same people, modulo a different culture and upbringing, the ones we resurrected would pass for the versions of them I know except for the other Valinor being a censorious bubble-wrap-land..."

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"Would yours have not banned shampoo commercials?"

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"Shampoo commercials?"

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"This is how I learned about the Elf hair thing, I was looking at what they were banning on Valinor and they were fine with nudity but scandalized at shampoo commercials."

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"We don't ban pornography but probably find the same things graphic."

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"Fair enough. When your alt said 'shampoo commercials?' in more or less exactly that tone of voice I found an actual example, the look on his face was amusing."

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"Probably a bad idea. Though I'll admit mild curiosity."

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Cam snorts. "Watch hair porn on your own time."

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"I will have to bother my brother's girlfriend for it."

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"Or Bar, she seems very nonjudgmental."

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Annnyway. "Hair's not a thing for humans? And ex-humans? And human-like daeva - you know, I really wonder how any of this works..."

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"Hair is not a thing for human-style persons, no. By and large, I guess there might be idiosyncrasies about that like anything else."

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"I am trying to think why 'the Valar, only censorious' exists. An exact duplicate of our world with some point of departure would make sense, but a world that's completely different and has magical beings in it, and yet which runs through the same history -"

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"It's very weird," agrees Cam.

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No progress is made on figuring that out. Progress is made on xenobiology, on responses to all of the bioweapons conjurable from the alternate Endorë (no bioweapons are conjurable from this Endorë, of course, which doesn't mean much except that the Enemy's minimally competent at information security.) Progress is made on procedures for giving worlds a tech boost and statehood in the empire, and on designing a lovely new capital city for said empire, and on designing a palace for said city.

 

Progress is not made on getting over Cam.

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Well, as far as anyone has told Cam that's because 'getting over Cam' is a done thing, so he will continue to win at Governor about half the time and be smug and tail-wagging about it.

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Yes, he will, won't he. He doesn't get distracted enough to make mistakes. He reminds himself that he prefers Cam smug and tailwagging and unknowingly causing lots of anguish to Cam quiet and non-tail-wagging and courteously giving him space.

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And he's convincing; he's stopped moping, so they've stopped worrying about him. 

 

And at some point he says to Cam, 'so when Edie and I were talking about how to help you out I said I thought this was above Maitimo's pay grade and we needed, like, him, a therapist, and a time machine. To fix it. Not that the main reason to fix it is so that you won't be sad over it, but it's sure pretty motivating -'

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"...uh, me being sad really shouldn't be particularly motivating compared to, like, people being dead. What would Maitimo be adding to the therapist and a time machine package anyway?"

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"...someone to feel accomplished about beating at Governor? And plot to take over the universe with? Or are you two thinking bigger than the universe by now? When he was, like, on Cam-hiatus you seemed significantly less - dunno. Smug. 

 

And I really don't do 'should be motivating'."

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"Governor is fun, I missed it," says Cam. "Multiverse, if we can do controlled interuniversal teleportation. Feel free to be motivated by whatever you like, I guess, if being motivated by the mood of someone who doesn't think it makes sense to be motivated by his mood is a thing that works for you."

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"I'm really looking forward to starting time again and killing the Enemy - probably via instructions to Edie's alts on Endorë since the rest of us are mid-leap - and then exiting leap for Maitimo to announce 'Enemy's dead, we've got reliable non-summoning interdimensional transit, we're taking over the multiverse, here are your orders, let's have this done by Aldúya'. It's very motivating."

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"Yeah, that'd be nice."

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"We have literally as long as we'll need to pull it off, and there are dimensions with precogs. It'll happen. We may all be bored out of our skulls by the time it does, but it'll happen."

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"It's amazing how possible it is to be bored with access to all the books."

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"Well, I'm functionally illiterate and Maitimo's used to having several hundred people to look out for, minimum. I've seen him spend thirty years on infrastructure negotiations without getting bored but a week alone and he's unhappy, a month alone and you might as well lock him up."

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"Also all the movies," Cam says. "...Idiom's not seamlessly translating courtesy of Milliways, if 'lock him up' is an idiom?"

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"Elves, like, short-circuit if imprisoned. Not your version?"

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"- oh, they do, I'd just sort of mentally folded it into the need to be in pretty places, I remember now."

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"Pretty spacious places, I'm honestly impressed that Elves without summoning ever get off-planet, the ships we need are a nightmare to build the non-magical way."

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"Well, they didn't have enough of them until I showed up..."

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"I am actually really curious about how your war went but I understand if you don't want to talk about it."

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"I'm - fairly decompressed at this point - I can tell you about it if you like."

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"They didn't have enough ships?"

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"Yeah, they had a small fleet, couldn't hold everyone who needed to go and the moon wasn't a nice place to hang out in the meanwhile -"

Cam goes through his notes, goes over the events of the war.

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"Well, fuck. 

 

I'm sorry you didn't have a less shitty set of choices. We'll fix it."

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"Thanks."

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Huan buries his head in Tyelcormo's chest and whines. "Yeah," he murmurs. "Yeah. It's okay. We'll become ridiculously powerful and fix everything. It's okay."

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"It'll still have happened."

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"I know. I - 

I doubt those versions of us are ever really going to stop hating themselves. Doesn't mean they wouldn't do it again, but -"

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"I actually don't hate myself," Cam says, "I've just forfeited the right to ever argue even in my own head with anybody who does hate me."

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"That's very - not the way I think. But - okay. Uh, I don't hate you. Huan doesn't hate you. My alt doesn't hate you either, I bet."

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"Sure, not everybody - even everybody who knows - will happen to exercise the option, but - if you did -" Shrug. "Can't really go 'well, that's because you're wrong', anymore. It is in fact completely sensible to have a hating-people-who-commit-genocide heuristic."

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"Okay but it is also completely sensible to hang out around people who don't hate you and avoid the ones who do."

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"I'm not actually into self-flagellation. I do not plan to, like, live on New Valinor after I've put it back best I can."

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"I am glad to hear that. But - do you plan to go have a run at ruling the multiverse, or are you going to be like 'that should go to someone who is purer of history than me' -"

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"It doesn't seem very respectful of the consent of the governed to put me in charge and not tell them or tell them and put me in charge over the inevitable objections. I'd like to help but..."

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"Anyone I'd trust to rule the multiverse is also someone who'd do what you did, given the choices you had. The only difference is that no one actually made them do it."

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"And I'd buy that reasoning but Random Multiversal Citizen Twelve Billion isn't likely to."

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"Well, they don't get an opinion about who the emperor actually listens to, you can do as much advising as you want."

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"Yeah, I can do that part."

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"Thanks for telling me. It's nice to have a more complete picture."

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"You're welcome."

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"Do you want a hug or something."

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"If you like."

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"It's not actually about me? I have Huan and I sort of have a girlfriend now, I have lots of people I can hug when I want a hug -"

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"I run on a zero-hug diet pretty okay by default and even motivated as you are by my emotional state you needn't feel like I'm being neglected in some crucial way, but I wouldn't turn you down, is what I mean."

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"Okay." Hug.

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Hug. Sigh.

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"We're really lucky Edie met you."

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"I'm glad I can help."

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"Let me know if you need anything, not that I'm expecting that to occur, because you are a demon."

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"I am indeed a demon, it's mostly pretty nice."

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"We're gonna be very demon-bottlenecked on ending scarcity in the multiverse, hard to find people trustworthy enough for dimension-hopping tech and Edie's probably not gonna want to fork ten times now that I won't - I think Maitimo's very faintly annoyed with me about that but it's not like he'd say anything..."

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"I don't really want to fork either. Pity the other Revelation seems not to be a me."

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"Maybe the Edies can fork off of Ada. Maitimo's eventually going to want at least ten of him, too..."

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"I guess with an entire multiverse to handle it's sensible if you can cope with it okay."

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"Yeah. Not for me, but I can definitely see the appeal. Wonder if they'll be interchangeable or if one of 'em will be emperor of the multiverse and the other ones vaguely jealous..."

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"This is the kind of thing that would worry me if I had a fork. Alts, we could just divvy things up and then flawlessly cooperate, forks don't have natural specializations so it'd be slightly forced."

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"I bet he does it as one-per-sector and then either makes it a competition for who gets the title - whoever saves the most lives in ten years, or something - or else waits until they've specialized enough there's a natural place for it to shake out.

Or if one meets a boy who's suited to co-ruling, that'd swing it."

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"And then all the forks who don't meet this boy take several months to write songs and get over it?"

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"You have Maitimo very figured out! Though with other people around and things to get done it wouldn't take him nearly as long, he's pretty good at not having - useless wants -"

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"Not having useless wants is a valuable skill."

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"If I didn't think he'd be a good emperor of the multiverse we'd be having very different conversations."

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"I think he'll do well at it."

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"Yep. Take care, Cam."

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"Will do."

 

 

It occurs to Cam that while the guy who's been sitting in the Security office can't help them, he also can't sit there forever, it's just time-fuckery. He goes into the Security office. He sits there being inoffensive enough that the security guy doesn't kick him out; remembers a ways in to notify various Elves of his cunning plan.

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Brilliant. 

 

Awwwwwwwwwaaaargh.

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Thanks.

Cam parks there for thirty hours - apparently the security guy doesn't sleep, not even while in Milliways - and then a blonde lady comes in and takes over for him, who wants to come talk to blonde lady about how she can take daeva or should Cam just ask her himself?

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I'm happy to drop by if we're assessing trustworthiness or something, but I'm sure you can put the question to them as effectively as I can.

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Eventually Cam reports that blonde lady is from a world where being traumatized sometimes grants superpowers and she can fly and is ultra-durable and ultra-strong, she doesn't have a way to counter a black hole and is pretty sure that this implies Milliways is a No Black Holes Zone by virtue of its physics fuckery, she doesn't think she could take a fairy, and she got her door at a really inopportune time such that if she holds it for somebody - well, a daeva might be fine (might; she can't rip Cam's wing off but can't vouch for a general daeva > capes tendency) but the door would certainly be destroyed in the ensuing firefight.

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Inconvenient. Does her home world want any tech we've got, while she's here...does summoning work there....

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She is pretty sure that people who try to substantially upgrade the tech base are deliberately sought out and driven insane by horrible monsters and she's never heard of summoning the way daeva are summoned, it's all powers.

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Yikes. Okay, so maybe we save that dimension for after the more tractable ones. Does she need a hug or something.

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I do not feel qualified to assess whether she'd appreciate being asked.

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So he comes by. "Hi."

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"Hi." She's dressed oddly, slightly singed singed white bodysuit, white boots. There's a steel mask with eye holes and shiny white paint on it on the desk by her elbow; it looks like it would conform oddly perfectly to her face, as though she may have literally crafted it by finding a piece of shiny white-painted steel and smashing her face into it. If she weren't wearing her hair loose and her ears were pointy she'd be pretty enough to pass for an Elf.

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Huh. He smiles at her.

"My home world's in the middle of a nightmare so we're parked here until we have the technology and possibly the magic to take it on. Your world sounds, uh, also nightmarish. Sounds like our capacity to offer aid is limited, but if there is anything -"

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"World's probably going to end, or else why call them Endbringers," she shrugs. "Not sure what you'd do about it - way he described his powers he'd be high tier for a cape but nothing too game-changing."

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"Evacuate the planet or if necessary the dimension? I don't have any superpowers but I have a fleet under my command that's got plans drawn up to do exactly that if necessary."

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"He said he told you, last person who optimistically tried to get off the planet was specifically targeted by the Simurgh and now he gets his kicks tracking down other altruistically inclined Tinkers and fucking with them or torturing them to death. I guess Aleph doesn't have this kinda problem but capes are contagious."

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"What's your population, how fast does the attack-people-advancing-the-tech-base effect happen?"

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"Few billion, Endbringer attacks are about once every three months."

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"So if we time it right - we can definitely move a few billion people in three months - or will they attack more often if the situation changes..."

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"Might. Used to be just one of them, now there's three."

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"Lovely. Well, let us know if you think of anything." 

 

And he writes Cam, 'uh, mixed feelings about starting time in her world again'.

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I asked her if she ever thought about running off to another universe but apparently she has 'shit to do'.

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Like waiting for her world to end? Why doesn't this bar get more patrons, that's exactly what we need right now, a dimension we can uncomplicatedly go fix...

Permalink Mark Unread

I suspect and Bar cannot disconfirm that it is in fact fucking with us!

Permalink Mark Unread

To what end? Is she mad that we're leveraging her to rule the multiverse?

I really need some of my advisors and they're on different ships, this is very frustrating.

Permalink Mark Unread

Bar likes us fine, she just doesn't control the door.

Permalink Mark Unread

And the forces that do don't like us?

Permalink Mark Unread

Apparently, but we can't talk to them.

Permalink Mark Unread

They've got dimensional transport, but it's not demon-safe and it's as bare-bones as it gets - no destination targeting at all, you are statistically very likely to land in hard vacuum but they can't even say that for sure. Fifty more years.

Permalink Mark Unread

I mean, if it's conjurable, landing in hard vacuum is not an insurmountable problem - if we can use summoning to get demon scouts back instead of that not working for some reason.

Permalink Mark Unread

The bigger problem is that if they un-chip-lock the prototypes then anyone idly conjuring all my father's work has dimensional transit. 

Permalink Mark Unread

Yeah.

Permalink Mark Unread

He can maybe osanwë it to Edie, she can make it, you can see it and copy? Does that leave us open to any risks, you've probably thought about information security more than I have -

Permalink Mark Unread

If it's ever physically instantiated then it's theoretically copiable and the question's whether anyone thinks of it; your father's complete works including physical prototypes seem like a likely category. Also it might someday be feasible to actually read information off of chips in detail.

Permalink Mark Unread

So we wait until they've got something better, and we still might not be able to do anything about the general problem - for that matter, even if we make it non-conjurable demons can still build it from scratch like my fathers are going to -

Permalink Mark Unread

Yeah. If somebody whose prototypes are likely to be less interesting does the assembly it's harder to find.

Permalink Mark Unread

We can do that.

 

 

I feel like when I get back in touch with my people there's going to be a lot immediately caught that we didn't think of...

Permalink Mark Unread

My world isn't in crisis, we could send you there and you could talk to those versions?

Permalink Mark Unread

I thought you wanted to leave time paused until we had a way to fix things? But - yes, I would probably benefit from that.

Permalink Mark Unread

I would, but someone else can hold the door while I get back to work, I don't expect to have a way around that step anyway.

Permalink Mark Unread

Probably not. Does splitting it into chunks with Milliways intervening make it easier or harder, psychologically -

Permalink Mark Unread

Both at different points in the process.

Permalink Mark Unread

Well, let me know if you decide you want to give it a go, and I'll take advantage of the chance to go speak with people, run the crucial ideas by them, maybe ask if anyone wants to come back with me...

Permalink Mark Unread

Will do. Any advantage to waiting until you have more research to describe to them?

Permalink Mark Unread

It'll take longer to catch them up to speed, the plans will be in closer to final form and holes poked in them will be accordingly more useful, we'd be sacrificing the opportunity for anyone to decide to come and join us who might significantly speed research along but my guess is that they are going to be very busy with reconstruction and very shellshocked...and in need of a therapist, I will probably be a highly-variable-quality substitute... so that might not be a likely outcome anyway.

Permalink Mark Unread

So, some, assuming people willing to hold the door are not in short supply and they can hang out there for the extra catching-up time.

Think I should continue parking in this office until Rosalie goes home and we get someone else or does her world seem like it might be good to have a representative on tap just in case something?

Permalink Mark Unread

Seems like it'd have to be a really big something. Surface-takeoff lightleapers wouldn't even do it - if we were sure capes couldn't kill daeva we could go through to your world, summon a lot of daeva, teach them surface-takeoff lightleaper manufacture, and try a really rushed evac but -

- this is just me not wanting to abandon a world even when it's intractable and the same resources are probably better spent elsewhere -

Permalink Mark Unread

Well, we can now refer to 'Rosalie's world' to Bar...

Permalink Mark Unread

So maybe hang out there for a bit - or I'll take a turn, if you get bored - and we can read and see if we think of anything in a few hours, and if not. 

 

If whatever controls the doors is fucking with us deliberately can we expect that anyone who mans security will not actually solve any problems?

Permalink Mark Unread

Maybe? Depends how aggressively it's fucking with us.

If you'd take a turn I would like to stretch my wings a bit.

Permalink Mark Unread

I'd be delighted. 

 

And he hangs out in Security and makes conversation with Hera and learns more about her world.

Permalink Mark Unread

She's not overwhelmingly talkative but she doesn't kick him out. Apparently there's a bunch of people with powers and usually they're anonymous but she doesn't bother with it when she's on a shift - mask'll go back on when she leaves - he can call her Rosalie or Hera she doesn't care - Hera's a mythological figure who suits her vigilante pet causes - she's got a thing about going after child abusers and rapists and wife-beaters, especially if the cops drop them on technicalities or because they're charming or something -

Permalink Mark Unread

Well, he's not going to touch that, just nod and agree that it's good when bad people can't hurt people anymore. 

 

Fairies might be able to do something about Endbringers, is it at least worth seeing if he can find any willing to try...

Permalink Mark Unread

She's not necessarily opposed to letting a fairy in but she's not optimistic.

Permalink Mark Unread

It'd be sort of a low-probability high-magnitude thing. When Cam gets back they can discuss if there are obvious reasons it's a bad idea, and he can go try to find a sufficiently trustworthy fairy.

Permalink Mark Unread

Cam comes back, wings stretched. "How goes?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Okay. Seems like there's an off chance a sufficiently motivated fairy could just take an Endbringer off to Jupiter or something, are there obvious downsides to asking one if they'll try it and sending them back with Rosalie?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Well, the fairy could catch contagious powers and this could be a disaster of some kind, or the Endbringers could drive the fairy insane and then we have a mad fairy, or a cape could kill the fairy somehow..."

Permalink Mark Unread

"The latter chance I was planning to apprise them off and let them decide if it's worth it, mad fairy seems like less of a problem than that world's already got, contagious powers could be useful if we've got the right person but are admittedly a problem especially if they go back to Fairyland and keep being contagious."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I was thinking the mad fairy would be a problem if they went to Fairyland and continued being mad. Also, bindings might not behave normally with respect to powers if they were then summoned elsewhere."

Permalink Mark Unread

"...Edie thinks the reason Elves don't daevafy is because we die within reach of Mandos, she made her forks in Hell and she thinks Hell-made forks of us will daevafy just fine if they die after summoning something."

Permalink Mark Unread

 

"Okay, but daevafying you guys until one of you is a fairy does not actually solve the mad-fairy-what-do hypothetical."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Oaths solve that."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Unless powers fuck with oaths, or chips, or memories, or cause you to be possessed by malicious powers-world entities and not acting of your own volition..."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Few of these possibilities seem worth letting a world end over."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Sure, but make the tradeoff, don't just go 'oaths solve that'."

Permalink Mark Unread

It is not even just that he is in love with Cam he also needs him the multiverse needs him this is so frustrating aaaaaahhhhhhhhh

"Yeah, okay, point taken. There are some ways this could go catastrophically badly and hurt a lot of other people; there are even conceivable ways it could hurt more people than the population of Rosalie's world, and the odds it just works and saves the day are not very pretty because it seems like the causes of trouble in their world might be escalating. I think it's worth trying anyway, what do you think."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I'd like to do more background reading on the world first."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Fair enough. I will just sit here, want to make me a book so I don't take Rosalie's time..."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Uh, you shouldn't just sit here if we might want to go into her world," Cam says, "I think the security office is likely to all but pause relative to everything else if she's the only person here, that other guy was here for ages until I sat him out and I think they may be short on Security people who can take daeva - and you can do background reading too, bounce ideas off me."

Permalink Mark Unread

Yes, he can do that. He has to pretend to be looking around to see if he left anything on the floor so he doesn't send Cam any suspiciously adoring glances.

 

And then read, and read, and bounce ideas, and ask for more material, and ask for conjured scale models of things and conjured material parts of things...

Permalink Mark Unread

"Man, powers in this world are scary as fuck," Cam says, in between making things.

Permalink Mark Unread

"Yep. And - I don't know how much of this is that Elves are an unusually nice species, but are humans usually -"

Permalink Mark Unread

"This is in fact worse than usual. Could just be stress from all the end being brung."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Or it could be mental manipulation that's Simurgh-y, in which case fairy needs to stay far away from Simurgh, or it could be mental manipulation or something else violence-causing that's ambient, in which case fairy needs to not be summonable again once they go home, at least not for a while..."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Yeah. It's another Earth, which is interesting..."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Two Ardas and three Earths. This one can safely be presumed not to have a you?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"I can check, it's past my birthdate..." Checking, checking. "Nope, no me, no my parents."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Of course not, that'd be too easy."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Yeah, we could just land on him and say 'hey, we have cool shit, tell us where to put it'..."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Exactly." And how many other people is that true of, not very many, what if he never finds another one...

Permalink Mark Unread

Cam thoughtfully contemplates making out with some alt of himself after their world is saved, dismisses the notion, goes back to reading.

Permalink Mark Unread

Aaaaaaaaaahhhhhh reading. 

Permalink Mark Unread

"I wonder why this Scion character is such an inefficient nutcase."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Ah, see, I sort of treat that as the default for ridiculously powerful supposedly benevolent deities."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Yes but rescuing kittens from trees?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"I'm kind of annoyed about how easy it is to apparently be acclaimed as a great hero."

Permalink Mark Unread

 

"Found the guy who tried to get off the planet and got Simurghed, that's just... just lovely..." Cam passes over the cape encyclopedia he's been flipping though.

Permalink Mark Unread

 

"Well, that's fantastic. Ugh. 

 

 

 

At this point my primary worry is escalation."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Yeah, the trajectories of the Endbringer fights make it look like they're holding back somehow..."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I think my current least favorite thing is fights where for unclear reasons the bad guys aren't really trying.

 

Evac might make more sense..."

Permalink Mark Unread

"We don't know where Endbringers come from and powers are contagious."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Not evac to here, terraform them a planet very far away that doesn't have Endbringers, assuming it doesn't have Endbringers - have you encountered this stuff about Aleph -"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Yeah - I'm unclear why nobody's arranged a mass exodus, the Simurgh didn't descend on Professor Haywire - the names these people pick for themselves -"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Is that not a human thing I was writing that off as another human thing."

Permalink Mark Unread

"...it's sort of a human thing? It reads to me like an outgrowth of superhero comic books, which actually mostly had less clever names. There's a genre of fiction that is basically 'this but the good guys win way more frequently and they elide completely over property damage and civilian casualties and stuff' starring characters named things like Superman and Wonder Woman."

Permalink Mark Unread

"That's kind of cute. The stories, not the - "

Permalink Mark Unread

"Well, the quality varies widely - there were a bunch of movies in the genre in the early twenty-first and again in the early twenty-second centuries, might be a better introduction than trying to disentangle a comics continuity - if you're curious."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I'm kind of distracted by the horrible real version but maybe once we need a break from reading."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Sure. A cute one. Squirrel Girl Saves The Moon or something."

Permalink Mark Unread

It's a date, he doesn't say.

 

"Sounds...interesting. Sure. When we need a break."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Yeah."

Reading reading reading "I can't find any references to what Sleeper actually does" reading reading "I wonder if I can make Tinker tech" he tries it he can't "I wonder if it counts as magic or what" reading.

Permalink Mark Unread

"Probably counts as magic. That's a shame, some of this stuff is good."

Permalink Mark Unread

"No kidding, even if we had to go off the shelf as it were..."

Permalink Mark Unread

"You should be able to pretty trivially unmask people, if that's ever interesting..."

Permalink Mark Unread

"They seem to have a major taboo on that, wouldn't want to poke it without knowing more about it, but yeah, could do."

Permalink Mark Unread

And when they're tired of reading - "alright, how does Squirrel Girl save Earth's moon."

Permalink Mark Unread

"This is actually a kid's movie, the ones intended for adult audiences do less of the cute thing -" And he puts on Squirrel Girl Saves The Moon. Squirrel Girl's power set is completely inadequate to saving the moon but she tries really hard and gets help and does it anyway!

Permalink Mark Unread

It's a cute movie. 

 

Cam's kind of distracting. He's not doing anything, but his existence is distracting.

Permalink Mark Unread

Cam is wagging his tail at the funny bits of the movie and smirking at the outdated special effects, is that "doing anything"?

Permalink Mark Unread

It is really really distracting! He's probably staring at Cam noticeable amounts!

Permalink Mark Unread

"Hm?" Cam asks, when he catches him at it.

Permalink Mark Unread

 

 

"I was kind of expecting it to stick better."

Permalink Mark Unread

"...beg pardon?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"If I am going to continually develop a crush on you and then need a breather to get rid of it at some point that is going to get really old."

Permalink Mark Unread

 

"...Sorry?" says Cam uncertainly.

Permalink Mark Unread

"Not your fault. Would you prefer I stop mentioning it."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I don't know, I - it's not that I don't like you perfectly well or anything, I'm just sort of fucked up -"

Permalink Mark Unread

"I assure you I am not under the impression that you're in a place to be looking for -

 

- if I'm going to have to repeatedly set my head straight anyway you should probably just figure out what you want and let me know, including if that's 'nothing serious' or 'no reminders that this is a concern at all'"

Permalink Mark Unread

"I mean, what I want is to be less fucked up. It's taking a while. - Substantial factor here is that it seems like maybe a bad idea in principle to start anything - personal - while I have a permanent 'lose argument' button in my head that basically anyone can push, and, like, you have not made any sudden movements buttonward, but."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I would have done it in your place. And then I would be, I don't know, coordinating humanitarian work on a small scale somewhere because it wouldn't be right to set my sights higher but I don't want that for you it'd be such a waste -

 

if what I should do is wait that is a thing I can do but I'm going to spend the interim swooning hopelessly over everything you do, not that that's disqualifying of that solution -"

Permalink Mark Unread

 

"Okay, before I tell you 'go for the swooning hopelessly over everything I do option' are you in fact involved with your cousin and if so is there a toxic amount of drama going on there."

Permalink Mark Unread

"We were, and no. If we figured out a way to talk to a ship in leap and you told him about the other set he'd laugh at me because it is not a literally impossible failure mode but it'd require substantial external fuckery - I am willing to place bets there was substantial external fuckery in the other world, actually -

- and we broke up over a not-dramatic conversation by the end of which we were invested in the details of a new tax proposal and our world does not have any homophobia and no one's noticed us interacting oddly because there's nothing to interact oddly over, we were good for each other in Valinor and are not good for each other when facing down a war that's going to be demanding of - of the things I was expecting this war to demand I choose between - it'd be convenient if you could talk with him, but I can't think how -"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Yeah, short of forking him without being able to ask. The drama is radioactive with the other set but I am pretty well convinced that I should not expect close matching."

Permalink Mark Unread

"He would be happy for a fork of him to exist where these sort of problems are in play but annoyed if it was brought into existence for the sake of confirming that I can handle relationships with more maturity than a forty-something child."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Yeah. Uh. So. I'm flattered. I am also fucked up. What do you want?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"To fix everything everywhere and also kiss you when you are being particularly smug or clever or correct or tail-wagging - sort of had been trying to leave it there - I mean, if you would like to co-rule the universe with me that's very much also an option but - we've got subjective centuries to think through all of that -"

Permalink Mark Unread

"...tail wagging? Really?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"It is incredibly distracting! I don't even know why!!"

Permalink Mark Unread

"It's really not why I got the tail!" But there it goes. Wag.

Permalink Mark Unread

"I was not remotely under the impression you were doing any of it on purpose! That's part of what -" 

 

Sigh.

 

He blinks at Cam hopelessly.

Permalink Mark Unread

"...sorry." He tucks his tail under his leg.

Permalink Mark Unread

"Don't be. Take your time. My original plan was actually to not mention it for several decades, but then I considered that objectively and realized that even under very exceptional circumstances - 

 

 

 

 - anyway. We were learning more about Rosalie's world?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"...exceptional circumstances?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"...we're in a time-stopped dimensional bar and you just went through everything you went through and if there were ever an occasion to sit on feelings for someone for several decades this would be it but even then it seems like an obvious mistake?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Yeah, that's - that's a really long time, for one thing."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Yes. Less so to me than to you but still, yeah."

Permalink Mark Unread

 

"I missed you when you took - however long it was for you, I think it wound up being three, four months for me."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Six. I missed you too, sufficiently so that at some point it was defeating the point, avoiding you..."

Permalink Mark Unread

"...thought you said you were hoping it would stick better?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"I successfully got not-distracted-by-you, as you can notice from the not-throwing-away-games-of-Governor-in-fits-of-jealousy-at-fictional-princesses-you-marry. I didn't get, like, sustainably and permanently disinterested in pursuing anything, though I didn't realize how badly I'd fallen short on that front until it started coming back."

Permalink Mark Unread

"...fits of jealousy at fictional princesses. Okay that explains that one. She means nothing to me! I forget what I named her!"

Permalink Mark Unread

He laughs and then subsides into staring a bit longingly at Cam again.

Permalink Mark Unread

 

"Have you been looking at me like that behind my back a lot?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"....not a lot."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I'm not sure at this point you don't have inflated expectations."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I really honestly don't have any expectations, except that when I'm being careless with important high-stakes things you will continue pointing that out and so forth, I will retreat from this entirely as a bad idea if romantic relationships make you - less you -"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Not as far as I know, but I don't know empirically or anything."

Permalink Mark Unread

 

 

"Well, we can look out for it."

Permalink Mark Unread

 

"I do like you," says Cam, "but like - I am slightly held together with baling wire right now and it's a long time healing. I don't think I'd have a high tolerance for drama in the most neutral circumstances imaginable and right now it's nonexistent, so - watch out for that if you have any of the underlying tendencies for manipulative bullshit that your alt displayed, I'm not okay with how many levers I have right now and I'm low on strategies that aren't 'shut down hard if somebody leans on one'."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Understood."

Permalink Mark Unread

 

"That said I don't think any of the baling wire will snap if you kiss me."

Permalink Mark Unread

Well. 



Then he'll do that. 

Permalink Mark Unread

Kiss! (Cam's tail escapes from under his leg to settle around Maitimo's waist.)

Permalink Mark Unread

Eeeeeeeeeeee Cam. And tail. And having successfully navigated a thing without a Findekáno to provide the common sense. He should thank Edie. Later. Right now he is distracted.

 

But only a bit distracted, only a brief kiss, he's waiting for Cam to slowly piece himself together, he's an Elf, waiting is supposed to be the species specialty...

Permalink Mark Unread

Brief kiss is brief. And then Cam smiles at him!

Permalink Mark Unread

"We were - planning to fix Rosalie's world -"

Permalink Mark Unread

"We were! We have more things to read." Tail drops; books are acquired.

Permalink Mark Unread

He beams at him and gets back to reading.

Permalink Mark Unread

Edie wanders in after a minute.

Permalink Mark Unread

"Hey. There's another world that needs saving - another Earth, actually, it's weird - we're trying to see if there's anything at all we can do, powerful local magic but daeva have some advantages -"

Permalink Mark Unread

"...Tell me all about it."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Grimdark superhero comic book world," Cam summarizes.

Permalink Mark Unread

"Huh. Origin stories as varied as in the major chains, or something more coherent?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Trauma equals powers, sometimes, and there's heaps of it to go around, most prominently three astoundingly destructive kaiju-things - a fire one a water one and a scream-that-drives-you-mad one."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Huh. And how long has this been going on for?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Bout thirty years now, started in 1982."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Do you know what made powers start happening?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"No, but we know who was first, shiny nutcase with no sense of priorities called Scion, most powerful 'cape' in the world, divides his time quite nonsensically between saving treed kittens and rescuing orphans from burning buildings and chasing the kaiju things which are called Endbringers away from whatever they're attacking."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Ooookay then. Have we tried 'scale model of the source of powers'?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Lots of power related things seem to count as magic, that's one of them, so does all the super-engineering swag."

Permalink Mark Unread

"If we had an army I could just have them read through all the planet's written works that mentions powers or origins or anything but we don't have an army, and it might be that nothing's been written that's accurate."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Hmm. Area around the source of power?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Didn't try that..."

...ball of featureless rock.

"How informative!"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Galaxy the ball of featureless rock is in?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Might not be useless, is it planet-sized? Star system?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Hard to tell how big it is when I don't want to specify a scaling, get it wrong, and break Milliways..." He makes a small scale galaxy in glass and glitter. "...that looks Milky-Way-ish..." Solar system. "...could be an alternate universe Sol system..."

Permalink Mark Unread

"So which of the bajillion rocks in the solar system is that one, is the question. Well, it's round, so that puts a lower bound on the mass..."

Permalink Mark Unread

"It's very round, I don't think it's an asteroid."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Probably a dwarf planet."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Could be artificial, can you try to bring up 'artificial planetoids in the system' -"

Permalink Mark Unread

She tries.

"Nothing doing."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Is it inhabited?"

Permalink Mark Unread

She tries conjuring models of people who live there.

"Nope."

Permalink Mark Unread

"It's dead, there's not even like a light dusting of chlorophyll, I wasn't trying to leave the plants off. No oceans either."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Hmm. Maybe if we figure out which dwarf planet it is we could figure something out from their astronomical records or something."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Whose astronomical records?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"NASA? The IAU?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"I'm not sure this world will actually have those, what with the monsters punishing attempts to get into space..." Squint. "This Jupiter-looking-thing is missing its red spot, I'm not so sure this is maybe a Solar system any more."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Hmm. Okay. Well, 'Melkor's summoner' was a thing I could do, maybe if a cape caused the Endbringers I could make a model of them..."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Tenuous. I checked once when I was doing Revelation infosec and you can make models of active summoners, but not past ones. But if they're being actively sustained it might work..."

Permalink Mark Unread

She tries it.

Permalink Mark Unread

Nope.

Permalink Mark Unread

"Okay, that didn't work..."

Permalink Mark Unread

"...so, the source of powers is on a dry dead planet or dwarf planet somewhere in a system similar to but not actually the solar system, if anybody made the Endbringers they're probably not necessary to the Endbringers' continued existence...."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Hmm. We could maybe try conjuring some of the stuff Endbringers are made of, see if we can figure out a way to damage it..."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Bet you a million bucks they count as magic."

Permalink Mark Unread

"After the servers in the backyard incident that sounds like a terrible idea no matter which one of us won."

Permalink Mark Unread

"...a million dollars doesn't take up that much space, even if you demanded it in cash."

Permalink Mark Unread

"It doesn't? Huh. Well, how else would that bet be fulfilled?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"I am not actually expecting either of us to insist on being paid, here, we're demons."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Makes betting a million dollars kind of pointless."

Permalink Mark Unread

"...yes. It does. Anyway."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Anyway, no harm in trying." She tries conjuring a smol basement-dweller Leviathan.

Permalink Mark Unread

Magic, apparently.

Permalink Mark Unread

"Is this world as optimized as possible for thwarting nosy demons as it's possible to get without actually knowing about demons and installing appropriate security protocols?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"It's starting to seem that way."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Ugh. Maybe we should figure out who's doing research on this stuff and conjure their information."

Permalink Mark Unread

"There's some research on powers and some desperate hand-wringing about Endbringers. I can tell you what extra brain structures people with powers have! But not how it gets there or how it does powers!"

Permalink Mark Unread

"What criteria have you been using?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Bar's been recommending books and papers, haven't yet run into anything I know enough to want that she doesn't have."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Hmm. Bar only does published things, if there's some Tinker or something who had a critical breakthrough and got killed by an Endbringer or something before they could share it..."

Permalink Mark Unread

"You could just call up the whole corpus but you'd have to search it, and what for?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Mm, true. Probably a worthwhile avenue of investigation eventually, but not yet."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Exactly. This is why we are not parking in the Security office, lots to read up on and we don't want Rosalie's shift up before we know if we're going to send somebody to her world."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Yeah."

Permalink Mark Unread

"If we had more people I'd just check all written works on this world, just be safe. But there's no way to get them here."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I could hold my door and you could ask people I'd already resurrected before I found Milliways to come in, at need, but you'd have to allow some transit time, they've spread out from where I'm working."

Permalink Mark Unread

"And they're mostly not the Noldor and it'd probably be unusually challenging to convince them to trust me, considering."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Yeah."

Permalink Mark Unread

"If we have some basis for expecting that to turn anything up, maybe."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Pity the valid parameters are so arbitrary and we can't just summon 'most cutting-edge research on powers'."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I know, right? Bar can filter for recency but..."

Permalink Mark Unread

"It still probably doesn't get you anywhere, seems like they're magic and the locals might really not have more information than that - 

- do they have an afterlife, posthumous works of their citizens -"

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Cam tries it. He gets something! "...This is very small..." Poke poke read read. "...some powers can do something close-enough to resurrection, no afterlife per se."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I wonder if things I do come up as posthumous, now...if summoning works in worlds where people don't go to Limbo natively we could just tell everyone to draw a circle, let the world end..."

Permalink Mark Unread

"This exacerbates the potential 'mad fairy' problem. A lot."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Mad Fairy problem?"

She checks for "posthumous works of Maitimo." Nothing.

Permalink Mark Unread

"Yep, it does - are there powers that do dimensional teleportation, they know about different dimensions -"

Permalink Mark Unread

"A lot of powers are known or speculated to rely on alternate dimensions but transit per se is not obviously acquireable especially at scale especially since we can't make Tinkertech."

Permalink Mark Unread

"No, I mean what's the Mad Fairy problem, I think I wasn't there yet when you discussed it."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Mad Fairy Problem - uh, a fairy might be able to just launch the Endbringers into space but there's lots of mind-affecting powers and they might work on daeva, can't guarantee they don't, and one of the Endbringers has that as a specialty, and then what do you do with a mad fairy."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Anyway, when I asked about dimensional teleports I was thinking 'magnitude of the disaster if there are mad daeva as a consequence of this world's problems', not 'hey we'll steal it'."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Do they have precogs? Maybe there's a way to use one of those to check the Mad Fairy problem."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Yeah, they have precogs, but by and large the Simurgh fucks them up."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Fucks them up as in targets them or fucks them up as in their results are unreliable around her?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"The latter, she doesn't seem to have it in for them in particular."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Are there other mind-affecting powers we could check with precogs? It might not generalize perfectly to the Simurgh, if daeva were immune to those, but it would at least be evidence."

Permalink Mark Unread

"In theory yes, in practice it's not obvious how to find any of them amenable to testing..."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I was also thinking that unless their magic messes with chips you can just have a safe set of oaths for anyone going in there."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I'm not certain it's a good bet that their magic can't mess with chips."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I don't think there are any safe bets here."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Yeah. There is that. What kinds of oaths were you thinking of?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Not to cause or permit anyone or anything to disable the oath-enforcing bits of the chip, to stop doing things if they can identify a sudden plausibly-explainable-by-magic-interference change in their motives, goals, or reasoning processes, not to accept summons once they go home until we've had a chance to evaluate whether it's safe to do so..."

Permalink Mark Unread

"...That seems like it might be too tight and too loose at the same time, but..."

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"I kind of feel that way about oaths in general, actually."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Less so with explicitly temporary ones, but yeah."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Bindings are a lot - nicer, in a lot of important ways, but we don't know if they work across dimensions and I think we do need to make sure they don't take additional summons, too. If we go ahead with that plan we can and should spend a long time on wording, I doubt the first thing that came to mind is the ideal answer..."

Permalink Mark Unread

"True."

Permalink Mark Unread

"If we do find someone cooperative with mind-affecting powers there could be tests for whether it interfaces with oaths too."

Permalink Mark Unread

"We've still got the problem that the door's dangerous to go through, we can't have exploratory teams in and out..."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Why's it dangerous?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"I think Rosalie got it in the middle of a firefight."

Permalink Mark Unread

"...That's probably not dangerous to daeva, though..."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Cape firefight. Can't vouch for everybody's powers being as tame as literal fire."

Permalink Mark Unread

"If these things can damage daeva in ways other than making them crazy I think that makes it even more important to interact with this dimension."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Unclear, possible - powers are contagious though -"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Mm. If I forked Ada and Amelia they'd probably be--relatively okay--with the possibility of never coming back if it came down to it. More okay than just letting things be would be."

Permalink Mark Unread

"We'd still want a contingency for if something happened to whoever summoned them."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Yeah..."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Besides, it's really a fairy we need in there."

Permalink Mark Unread

"The other kinds aren't nothing, but yeah."

Permalink Mark Unread

"It's news to us that people daevafy, but what decides which they are, exactly?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"I've always thought it a matter of personality affinity with the magic but I don't have a huge sample size."

Permalink Mark Unread

"That's what I thought, too. I talked to Tyelcormo about it. We're pretty sure if it's that Feanaro would be a demon."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Well, at the moment at least we've got demons, we need a fairy."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I think fairies are more common than angels or demons but not by enough to be certain to avoid extraneous daeva forks solely by steering clear of obvious demons like Fëanáro."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Tyelcormo'd definitely be one, if it's affinity with the powers - Oromë is one - but I am pretty sure he doesn't want to fork -"

Permalink Mark Unread

"You might be a fairy but I could also see angel..."

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"I don't mind having an extraneous daeva fork, I was planning to have a dozen of me eventually anyway - should maybe fork them from before this afternoon -"

Permalink Mark Unread

"...maybe."

Permalink Mark Unread

"There's still the problem of how to do it - we dismissed Edie so she could make Ada and Amelia in Hell, we're pretty sure Elves whose backups write to Mandos don't fork at all - and we can't dismiss Edie again without worrying about our world's timestream..."

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"Mandos may not be able to reach here..."

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"Maybe not. Will Bar object to us murdering consenting people here."

Permalink Mark Unread

Within the main bar area, yes. The backyard and upstairs are not Security-monitored.

Permalink Mark Unread

"Then there'd just be the question of which Hell they'd be in - we can't try all of them, we don't even think we've found all of them yet..."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I think probably they'd be in your daeva realms or mine."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Yours works fine, if they're in ours we can't summon from there without starting up time again -"

Permalink Mark Unread

"...wait, do we actually know that's how the time stop effect works?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"We have no idea, but the most likely alternative is that you can't summon from a timestopped world at all..."

Permalink Mark Unread

"What I mean is, why do we expect your Hell to be timestopped? Nobody walked in here from it."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Oh. I suppose I assumed that interacting worlds stopped together - otherwise the daeva ones will notice that it's been years without any summons, they must be slightly worried for us..."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Well, it can't be keeping pace with all of you, you're not keeping pace with each other, but that doesn't mean it's stopped."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Yeah, if bits of Milliways aren't even consistent with each other it'd be pretty ridiculous to expect any of them to be consistent with the daeva planes."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Okay. So, we can give that a go, and the fork can write something real quick if he ends up in any daeva realm, and then if we can't summon him out of ours or yours we'll be able to distinguish between 'summoners who die in Milliways don't daevafy' and 'they daevafy to yet another set of daeva worlds'."

Permalink Mark Unread

"If you are the best potential-fairy candidate how far back will you need to be forked from to completely avoid the awkward?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Completely? Pre-meeting you, but that's inconvenient for lots of other reasons. He'll get over it. More effectively than me, won't be hanging around you all the time to undo it."

Permalink Mark Unread

"...if you say so."

Permalink Mark Unread

"If you'd rather go from before we found Milliways I do not object but then there will be much tedious catching-up-on-things."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Time we have."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I have no idea how you and forks of you will sort things out, and presumably you have such an idea," Cam says.

Permalink Mark Unread

"I was planning to do them at a time when we could quickly differentiate ourselves by being thrown at different problems, which this constitutes. I was considering forking them from different time periods to differentiate further, but I worry specifically that a me created in Milliways with no recollection of any of this will find it vanishingly implausible that's what's going on, might refuse to summon something for us until he's been satisfied with what's going on, and might be a relevantly distinct person by the time we kill him which would be bad if it turns out summoners who die in Milliways don't daevafy at all."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Makes sense."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Bar, do you mind us creating people, do you mind us summoning daeva - if we summon a fairy does that change who's on duty in the Security office -"

Permalink Mark Unread

If the currently on-duty Security personnel cannot handle a fairy, then the incipient appearance of a fairy will likely prompt a shift change. Neither person-creation nor summoning are forbidden.

Permalink Mark Unread

"Well that's inconvenient."

Permalink Mark Unread

"You said Security doesn't cover upstairs and outside, right?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Yes, but if it's the incipient arrival of a fairy that prompts the shift change then that might still do it - even seriously considering it might do it, might already have done it..."

Permalink Mark Unread

"We would've noticed someone going in. ...Unless they can teleport, in which case we'd notice Rosalie going out."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Okay. But we might need to expect that she'll leave before we've got a fairy. At a minimum we should save it for when we're entirely ready to go on everything we might want to do, research-wise..."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Agreed."

Permalink Mark Unread

And back to reading.

Permalink Mark Unread

Edie picks up a handful of documents and starts helping with that.

Permalink Mark Unread

 

At one point Cam gets up to go ask Rosalie a question.

He then comes out and says, "Security has a back door and the sorcerer guy is back."

Permalink Mark Unread

 

 

"...oh, for fuck's sake - we should have told her to come say hi on her way out, in case we could send some people with... was it that we were considering summoning a fairy, do you think, or -

 

- well, eventually we're going to have targeted dimension teleportation -

- this bar is definitely fucking with us on purpose -"

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"Let us not impugn Bar, Bar has been nothing but helpful, the door is fucking with us - Bar, what does one call 'whoever controls the door' -"

Permalink Mark Unread

"The landlords", typically.

Permalink Mark Unread

"Can it be communicated to the landlords that we're sorry if we're not using their interdimensional transit system for its intended purpose, and that we'd appreciate more guidance about what that intended purpose is and how to not be fucked with quite so much, and also that we'll bring them lots of presents once we rule the multiverse?"

Permalink Mark Unread

I do not have a direct line of communication to the landlords except insofar as they may be suspected of monitoring things said to me due to my ability to e.g. accept applications to work Security and thereafter I take no active role in scheduling.

Permalink Mark Unread

"Okay.

 

Well. Guess we can go back to killing time - unless we want to try to drive the Security guy out -"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Do we want to find out what other avenues of fucking with us the landlords have that badly?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"There's a level on which this whole thing started because the unbound daeva who ruled my planet tried giving my family orders."

Permalink Mark Unread

"...yes, but if there is, say, an eviction mechanism..."

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"Landlords go on the list after the Valar," Edie mutters.

Permalink Mark Unread

"I know. But - if we could have figured it out, they literally just doomed a planet's worth of people in the name of fucking with us."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Maybe we can find them again before everyone's dead."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Let's have a plan for if we do."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Agreed."

Permalink Mark Unread

So they keep reading.

Permalink Mark Unread

 

"I'm going to see who's staffing the infirmary."

Permalink Mark Unread

He beams at him. "That's the spirit. Or something."

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"And I will ask if they'd have to come through the main bar for shift change," snorts Cam.

Off he goes.

...He comes back. "So, the person in there is competent to heal at least small injuries, but I could only find out by self-inflicting one, she wouldn't talk to me besides, like, stock phrases?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Huh. Maybe throwing Mr. People-Psychic here at her will help."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I look a lot better than I am by virtue of having known pretty much everyone I interact with for centuries," he says, but he gets up and heads infirmary-wards.

Permalink Mark Unread

In the infirmary is a fiftysomething human sitting in an armchair reading what looks like a field guide to dragonflies. When he walks in she looks up, smiles, makes eye contact. "Hello. Show me where you're hurt," she says.

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"Hi, I'm Maitimo."

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This was not the answer she was expecting. She frowns.

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"What's your name?"

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"Nimia."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Do you do complicated stuff, could you take someone's chip out?"

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"...I can heal injuries and diseases."

Permalink Mark Unread

"There's a piece of metal in my head that I don't want there, could you take it out?"

Permalink Mark Unread

 

She's confused.

Permalink Mark Unread

"...corpus of responses such that you need everyone to stay on script, or just a species that has really different default interactions?"

Permalink Mark Unread

 

"I'm a healer."

Permalink Mark Unread

"So the former. What were you before you were a healer?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Not a healer."

Permalink Mark Unread

 

"What other things can people be? Fighters? Scientists? Researchers? Teachers?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Tephramancers, sciomancers, sideromancers, antheomancers..."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Are those the local equivalents of the things I said or just occupations? What's a tephramancer?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Conquest mages."

Permalink Mark Unread

"So sort of the equivalent of a fighter? What's a sciomancer?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Some kind of mage," shrug.

Permalink Mark Unread

"Can you give me an overview of your world and its magic system, or should I keep asking questions?"

Permalink Mark Unread

 

 

"I'm a healer."

Permalink Mark Unread

"And I'm a politician. How do you become a healer?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Flowers."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Do non-healers in your world have this limited corpus of responses problem?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"No."

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"So it's something about the process of becoming a healer that causes it? Did you know in advance about that?"

Permalink Mark Unread

Confusion. Lots of it.

Permalink Mark Unread

"Not-healers talk and think like me? Well, not very much like me, but more like me than like you? And healers are like you?"

Permalink Mark Unread

The healer is upset and turns around and folds her arms.

Permalink Mark Unread

"Sensitive topic? Can I go get you anything from the bar, or from the demons?"

Permalink Mark Unread

No answer.

Permalink Mark Unread

So he sits down and starts singing.

Permalink Mark Unread

Eventually she turns around and listens peacefully to the singing.

Permalink Mark Unread

"Have any favorite songs?"

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No reply.

Permalink Mark Unread

"What's the place you're from called?"

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"Claree."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Would I be safe there?"

Permalink Mark Unread

Shrug.

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"How old are you?"

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"Fifty-two."

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"How old were you when you became a healer?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Twenty-six."

She can answer factual questions like that pretty well. She gets unexpectedly emotional around a couple of topics - how she got here, when her shift ends, who her friends are - and seems oddly unable to navigate that when it happens; she wipes tears off her face with her sleeve with the same reflex motion she might brush spiderwebs off her arm. She stops answering him entirely or falls back on "I'm a healer", if he confuses her too badly. She never asks him anything.

Permalink Mark Unread

She doesn't know why he's asking questions, even on the level of 'he's curious or inquisitive', and he can't get anywhere by telling her. Her world doesn't seem to be in a state of emergency that she knows about, and she's not badly informed, exactly. He can make her upset, can't seem to get anywhere on 'happy'. 

Permalink Mark Unread

Cam comes in, holding napkins. "Asked Bar what her deal is, got - not much but some - world has almost no publications Bar can access, isn't that fun, just enough to indicate that it's not that they've never invented writing. I don't think we're going to wait her out and get a shift change even if we want to, either, she kind of just lives here, her - caretaker - left her for Bar to look after and never came back."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Yeah, she gets upset by the conversation but if I back off it for a bit will go back to it, I definitely think she could keep this up for a week and I also don't think I'd get much more than I have. The world doesn't seem to be ending, so I guess it's not a big problem that she can't leave. 

 

...maybe if we had things more injurable than Elves and daeva?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Bar says she is in fact really good at healing and could handle most of the not-ridiculously-exotic things that come up, but sometimes someone else comes to sit double duty with her if there is in fact about to be something ridiculously exotic."

Permalink Mark Unread

"By 'about to be' - are we monitored, do they have precognition -"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Bar is unclear on that but says her observations are consistent with the door picking up people from exotic-medical-condition locales when and only when the infirmary is equipped to handle them, sort of like the door will only pick up daeva when Security can take us."

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"And you can only make chippable people, probably none of whom have exotic medical conditions. I did ask if she could take my chip out, she was confused."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Healer not a surgeon," Cam says. "Bar says her caretaker was not very explanatory about the nature of the looking-after she needs but it's something to do with losing the concept of mental states."

Permalink Mark Unread

"...huh. And she's been here how long with no one doing it, whatever it is?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Well, Bar tries. Counter over there is an extension of Bar." Point. "But she's been living here for fifteen years her-subjective."

Permalink Mark Unread

"That's horrible and maybe we should just stay well clear of that world."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Maybe, yeah. Bar doesn't know much about it except, like, what they eat. Delicious riceflour dumplings, apparently, among other things."

Permalink Mark Unread

"We could probably walk with her to the door but absent more to go on - absent, in particular, information about how people suffer ....that..."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Yep."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Thanks for your time, Nimia," he says, and they head back out.

Permalink Mark Unread

"I do somewhat hesitate to assume that a severely impaired woman from a world with negligible published work and delicious riceflour dumplings has been living here for fifteen years specifically to fuck with us, but it's awfully... inconvenient."

Permalink Mark Unread

"We should probably just stop poking things and be patient but my impulse is to do the opposite."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Yeah, I'm in the same boat. Maybe we can have a flurry of poking things when the research end is closer to done."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Sounds good. Still leaves us with decades to kill, probably, but -

 

game of Governor? unless we want to try forking people from Milliways sooner rather than later..."

Permalink Mark Unread

"We'd want that why?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Prompts changes in Security, apparently, means we could respond faster to opportunities we do get, plausibly better saved for the fit of poking things near the end."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Yeah, I'd save it. I would be delighted to play Governor. Also you have to try the dumplings they're really good." Cam hands him a dumpling on a fork.

Permalink Mark Unread

They're really good. He has high praise for the dumplings. They set up another game. They kill time. 

Permalink Mark Unread

 

Cam is sort of intellectually curious how impressive his Governor stunts have to get before Maitimo-now-given-permission-to-kiss-him is inspired to pounce.

Permalink Mark Unread

Pretty impressive. But Cam is pretty impressive. 

 

(He doesn't kiss Cam as a distraction tactic; that might fall under being manipulative and he has been told not to be manipulative.)

 

(He definitely kisses Cam.)

Permalink Mark Unread

Yay.

(Wag.)

(Ridiculous tactical shenanigans.)

Permalink Mark Unread

At least if they have to wait decades they will be enjoyable decades. Kisses for ridiculous tactical shenanigans. No hair-petting. Cam needs time to put himself back together.

Permalink Mark Unread

And eventually Maitimo wins, but only barely. Oh well.

Permalink Mark Unread

"Next time."

Permalink Mark Unread

"You bet." Wag wag.

Permalink Mark Unread

And reading, and walking, and singing, and planning, and the engineers have a prototype for a persistent world-gate but still no targeting, and it's still wiser not to build it, lest some demon somewhere conjure it...

Permalink Mark Unread

And the time asynchronization is not doing anything good for the engineers' health and Cam programs a thing that will keep time and page Tyelcormo with a continuously open connection to sync time until he answers the page.

Permalink Mark Unread

"Thanks, that's brilliant," and he will check in on them every ten days, now that they have demonstrated an inability to take care of their own health, haven't they, and drag them outside for deep sea diving and hang gliding and laser tag, which he excels at, and they picnic and sing and laugh at human movies when no one's up for high-intensity sports. And at one point he interrupts them and gets vaguely concerning news.

 

"So," he tells Edie and Cam and Maitimo downstairs, "found a world with not-quite-strictly better tech than ours, the biological weapons team's apparently been stealing from them for a while but it's just now someone from our Arda got a look at the tech catalogues and realized what they meant. 

 

They carry human babies to term in these things called uterine replicators, abolished pregnancy ages ago. Which, good on them, really, but -"

Permalink Mark Unread

 

"Oh hell," says Cam.

Permalink Mark Unread

"Yeah."

Permalink Mark Unread

"...at some point it's going to stop being tractable to keep Hells clear of innocent people through information security and intelligent gate systems alone."

Permalink Mark Unread

"No one in Hell can ever find out about this."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Right which means no rolling it out in our worlds, no matter how useful it'd be, lest someone die and become a demon -"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Ugh you're right. I love my powers but it's really not worth it sometimes for them to be a thing arbitrary people have."

Permalink Mark Unread

"...We're trying to figure out how to take daeva anyway. And how to run a multiversal empire anyway. And the proportion of demons who'd go for it maliciously probably isn't enormous, nondaeva often deal perfectly responsibly with the ability to create people..."

Permalink Mark Unread

"...you thinking some kind of enforcement system, misuse this and then you'd better agree to be summoned into a binding that prohibits various kinds of misbehavior and then put back in Hell if bindings work across dimensions or else left in one where you can't hurt anyone, because if you don't agree to that then you go the way Melkor went, whatever that is going to need to be..."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Yeah. And it wouldn't be hard to notice violations."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Wouldn't be hard to notice if someone's made themselves a person, might be hard to notice if someone's mistreating people they made unless we prohibit all making of people..."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Maybe if we get lots of sad demons who just really want kids they can get a permit if they're under a binding."

Permalink Mark Unread

"...I like the idea of ruling Hell a lot better than crossing our fingers no one in it ever thinks to check for anything dangerous."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Yeah. Demonic curators are very aggressive completionists, they will find it."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I am all in favor of finding a way to rule Hell. Might get some not-wholly-unreasonable claims of discrimination if demons and only demons had to get a license to have kids."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Can do the same thing for Heaven and Fairyland and Limbo, but the latter two don't need any monitoring, they've got no way to get there independently."

Permalink Mark Unread

"No, but they could get imports from Hell."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Concordances," she nods. "Although without demons getting appropriate genetic material into the replicator would be harder."

Permalink Mark Unread

"The human users must have a way to do it."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Human users have DNA in their bodies. I'm not sure daeva do."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Unless the user interface is 'place body part here for sample extraction', there is probably an intervening step where a demonic imported sample can be inserted."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Yeah...I guess most daeva aren't ex-summoners who might care that the DNA going into the machine was meaningfully theirs."

Permalink Mark Unread

"And anybody who does just places a special order with whoever's exporting. So. Gotta be fairly comprehensive to make sure this doesn't get out of control."

Permalink Mark Unread

"We need to set something up to make sure everywhere in our empire's experiencing time at the same rate anyway, but once we've got that in place someone can just conjure up all the non-daeva people and fetuses in each realm, go say hello if someone hasn't got a permit."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Agreed."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Yep."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I should've predicted you two's solution to this would be 'rule Hell'."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Cam's solution," he says happily. And kisses Cam.

Permalink Mark Unread

"I mean, I don't see any better solutions at hand."

Permalink Mark Unread

"It's not a bad idea, probably better than trying to find some kind of magic that'd make Hells safe. It's just very much the solution of first resort for my brother soon-to-be-emperor-of-the-multiverse."

Permalink Mark Unread

Not that soon, he interjects without being distracted.

Permalink Mark Unread

"I'd rather have to answer to your brother than most governments of my acquaintance."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I'm really glad. Since, you know, it's that or grab a dimensional transit thingy and run far away, and I would miss them all. A lot. Plus who would feed them?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Cam?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Okay, who would remind them that Elves need to eat regularly and drag them outside to occasionally do so while not staring at a computer screen."

Permalink Mark Unread

She kisses him.

Permalink Mark Unread

Kissing Edie is less fun in front of his brother, even if his brother's distracted - actually, especially if his brother's distracted, it's more fun if his brother's undistracted and vaguely annoyed with him - and Maitimo and Cam have shown a stubborn disinclination to get a room, so he and Edie will have to set a good example.

Permalink Mark Unread

Maybe it will work! Maitimo does have evidence that Edie knows what she's doing relationship-wise, after all.

Permalink Mark Unread

And if it doesn't work, well, then, they'll just have to keep trying, won't they. 

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Oh, if they're leaving Cam doesn't have to stop kissing Maitimo after some decorous number of seconds have gone by, does he.

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That was a decorous number of seconds! And here they are, not stopping. 

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And in case it was not clear that Cam is not done his wings can go around Maitimo to emphasize that.

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The wings are so lovely he really wishes Elves could have them. Though two sets of wings seems like it'd only complicate a wings-hug, all things considered. 

He makes a delighted sound. This is very cozy.

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Awww what a nice sound.

"I have a room," Cam murmurs.

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"...that sounds maybe fairer to Bar," he murmurs, very carefully, because Cam said he wanted time, and not to play games with him, and he has been erring very far on the side of caution on those things -

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"And less likely to oblige the Security guy to come arrest us for indecorous behavior." One wing unwraps, the other stays draped as Cam heads for the stairs.

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"Can they make an arrest if there's no one else around to complain - maybe that's a way to prod the door-controller into producing more people from other worlds -" 

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"I think Bar counts as someone to complain."

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"Foiled again. What implausibly large number that seems to just taunt us with the emptiness of this bar are we going to?"

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"I'm in 303. The numbering of the rooms is weird and spatially fucked up!"

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"How so?"

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"My room is not consistently across from or next to the same other rooms, but it's always three flights of stairs up, left, a ways in, to the right."

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"What."

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"Have you not noticed this effect with your room? Do you even have a room, you must sleep sometimes..."

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"Outside, it's prettier. Bought a hammock off Bar."

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"That's adorable."

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"Did I mention that I was actually born before the invention of electricity? We had a summer palace up in the mountains, Tirion got too warm..."

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"By how much exactly are you cradle-robbing, here, I'm not even two hundred yet."

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"What's the Earth-to-Valian years ratio, someone must have figured it out by now..."

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"Ten-ish?"

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"I'm two hundred sixty seven but that's our years. And doesn't count Milliways at all."

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"Well, that's not so bad if you happen to assign mystical equivalence to all revolutions around suns instead of doing something silly like counting chronological time." Third floor. Room 303 is currently between Rooms 301 and 305 and across from 304.

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He glares at the room signs in the hopes they'll look abashed for playing ridiculous stunts like this. "Couple thousand, then. Elves invent slower than humans or I'd have been born before the invention of indoor plumbing, as I understand Earth history."

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"And that would have been terrible." Cam keys open 303.

It's cozy. The chipreader machine is discreetly curtained off in a corner and the rest of it is pleasingly furnished and he has a lovely view of the yard and there's a bed with enough room for him to spread his wings out if he wants, or do other things.

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It's very cozy. He returns to kissing Cam. "Two hundred's past the age of maturity for your species, right?"

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"I was an adult when I was like eighteen."

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"Sounds nice, except for the mortality, which is mediated by the daevahood."

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"It is." Kissing. Wingwrapping. Tailwrapping. This is a very wrapped up Elf.

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It is a good thing he has lots of attentional capacity so he can appreciate all of this.

 

The tail does not get less cute with exposure. Such a cute tail.

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Oh look it's the back of Cam's neck does it look nibbleable?

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Very, will this have exciting results?

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Is Cam slightly losing his balance in a snuggly direction and moaning an exciting result?

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Yes, yes, it is. More of that would be good.

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Eeeeeeeeeee yes that was the intended result.

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He has been told hair is not a thing for humans but will run a hand through it anyway, experimentally., since he can do that while maintaining neck kisses. 

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Which will get Cam to laugh a little between gasps, and loosen a wing to sneak his hand up to retaliate in kind.

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Well, that's going to be very distracting. He makes a delighted sound and leans in to Cam's hand.

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If Maitimo is also going to attempt to be leaning then Cam's balance is officially not up to the job. Bedward?

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What a good idea. 

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Cam has those. "'m I correct in assuming this is the part where your braids come undone?"

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"Will probably be very distracted. So. If that's a desirable outcome."

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"Distracted from what?"

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"...plotting to rule Hell? Taxes and infrastructure proposals?"

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"I mean, if you'd rather discuss taxes and infrastructure proposals..."

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"We have all the time in the world."

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"That's what I thought."

Unbraiding~

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Incoherent pleased noises. Elf hair is very sensitive, it's a shame he can't send the feeling -

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The fact, at least, is obvious by observation and warrants detailed investigation.

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He will totally pull himself together in a bit but -

 

- might kind of be a while, actually -

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No hurry, this is fun. And soft. "Soft," Cam remarks aloud.

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"Yeah." Aaah. "Yours is -" moaning, squirming - "such a different texture, it's so odd..."

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"I don't think mine'd be this soft even if I grew it out, unless I did magic to it." Pet pet pet.

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"Could probably give yourself Elf hair, doubt it'd give you Elf sensitivity - Emily could do that too, probably, if for some reason you wanted it -"

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"You're making a fairly compelling case for it." Scritches? Are scritches good?

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yes yes yes yes -

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Gosh, this is very gratifying enthusiasm here.

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Well, in addition to this being Cam who was really complicated to get into bed it has also been a really long time. He will be very enthusiastic.

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And eventually Cam is curious to see where besides the scalp he should be investigating Elf properties or, more specifically, Maitimo properties.

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Oooh! Is this an investigation that would be aided by less clothes because they can do that. (Kisses.)

 

"Didn't actually bother looking at a human anatomy textbook to check we're the same thing, guess I should have..."

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They can do that! Cam habitually does not wear shirts but he can get even less dressed than that. "No major discrepancies at least with the other version of Elves." He knows this mostly from performing medical experiments on basement dwellers but no need to mention that.

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Well he'll be curious and vaguely jealous but at least he can very swiftly be distracted from this.

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Cam can be really distracting when he sets his mind to it.

The only major anatomical discrepancies here are the wings and tail.

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He has already expressed his enthusiasm for those but he can express more enthusiasm. And more neck-kissing. And holding Cam delightedly and making pleased noises and missing osanwë, so convenient for speaking while kissing...

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Cam might not be coherent enough to produce words even over hypothetical osanwë while being neck-kissed.

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Well, osanwë's also great for conveying incoherent happy noises! Too bad the current asking price is 'become copiable by all demons everywhere'. Cam'd said earlier he hadn't had any romantic relationships to draw inferences from, he'd also said they were the same as the other kind of Elves, he doesn't really know what to - 

"- do you know what you like? -"

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"Most of the standard range, not picky..."

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"I'm feeling kind of picky. I spent a while - imagining you - if I hadn't inconveniently been trying not to fall in love I'd have asked you to bed a lot sooner-"

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"Do tell."

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So he does. And demonstrates. 

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This is delightful.

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Killing time seems likely to suddenly get much easier. Afterwards they can wing-snuggle, and talk, and fall asleep which neither of them do very often.

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Dozy wingy snuggles are nice.

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Cam is nice! Having a time-stopped bar in which to plan at length to stop the Enemy, instead of jumping hopelessly off into space, is nice! Tails are nice! Getting a couple centuries to invent technology no one's yet dreamed of is nice! Kisses are nice! He's feeling much less irritated at the unknown door-manipulators these days.

 

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Killing time gets easier.

Cam does not spend all his time wrapped around a soft-haired incipient multiversal emperor, though. For example, right now he is talking to Bar about how she can tell what people will like to eat; her recommendations are so consistently great.

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And someone else opens the door.

 

He realizes immediately that he's not allowed to be here; the oath was to remain in Maitimo's rooms, and to return to Maitimo if taken outside them, and this is definitely outside them, he knows them rather intimately. The door swings shut. He is for a second too confused to realize that maybe he shouldn't have let it do that.

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"Whoa! Hey! Where'd you come from?"

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"The palace," he says, "I should still be there - where is this, how did you get here -"

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"This is a time-pausing interdimensional bar, so you're going to have to be more specific than 'the palace'. I walked in the magical cannibalistic door same as you."

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Blink. 

"What? - the palace is in Himring, the capital city of the empire, and the empire is in Beleriand, which is a continent on Arda. We're at war. This is a time-pausing interdimensional bar with a magic cannibalistic -" He turns around and opens the door; it opens back on Maitimo's rooms. He should go back -

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"Yeah it does not make sense at all but you should really stay here with the door closed until you can walk out with war-ending swag -"

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He turns back around, lets the door close - "you have the means to end the war?"

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"Not. As such. But we have all the time in the world and ten of your genius uncle whirring away together upstairs."

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"He's alive? Ten of him are alive?" It's astonishing the place is still standing but if Fëanáro's the formal authority here he had better not say that. "Can you prove the time-pausing effect -"

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"Uh, you could open your door and throw something and close it and wait and open it and watch it land, but you probably don't wanna do that, any time with your door open is extraneous time for your Melkor - it is one of those, right? - to torture people in..."

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"Okay. I suppose if time's not paused people will come looking for me. And yes, it's one of those - there are others?"

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"Yours'd be third. The other two are different in various respects though, yours may be yet a third kind of thing. I expected you to have one because there's more of you too, although none in here."

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That's good. Maitimo if he found himself in a time-stopping interdimensional bar would certainly have him fetched at once, so if there are none of him there are probably none of Maitimo. "Different in which respects?"

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"One of them is the same kind of thing I am. The other is a magic god kind of deal."

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"The same kind of thing you are? You look like a Maia who sometimes has to pretend to be a human and is on the slower end with the shapeshifting..."

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"I am a demon who if I had to pretend to be a human would have to actually cut off the extra bits," Cam says. "Demons can make arbitrary matter and we're indestructible."

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"There's a Melkor who can make arbitrary matter? Ours - can't do that, we'd have lost - how is that even a fight, does it work very slowly..."

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"Oh, he's probably trying not to escalate too much so the Valar will back off. So please don't run back into your world with the first promising explosive, okay, you pretty much have to one-shot him or you just ramp up the entire concept of 'does this look like a fair fight to the Valar'."

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"That's very worrying. I will wait until there's something everyone relevant is confident can do it. The Valar are staying out of it so long as they think it looks like a fair fight?"

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"That's what was going on with mine."

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"I am frustrated but not surprised. Okay. Our Melkor is a... magic god thing, I suppose."

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"...I'm gonna start naming worlds or this will get confusing. Uh, let's say my war took place in Singularity for morbid reasons. The one where the Melkor is a demon can be Abaddon. Your world's name pending. So Singularity is a world of magic god Valar and smaller magic god Maiar, and Abaddon has daeva - that's demons and two other kinds of thing with other powers - Valar, and hive-intelligence Maiar. Abaddon's war is ongoing in the sense that if anybody from there opens their door, bad things happen and they're not gonna do it till they're ready to go on the neutralizing Melkor thing. Singularity is post-war. I was summoned to Singularity as a freak accident, but in Abaddon summoning daeva to make trades with us is pretty commonplace. One of those found this place and so did I and now a bunch of people from both worlds are here working on the problem."

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"Your war's over? How did you pull it off?"

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"I hate telling that story how about literally anyone else tells you that story later instead."

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"Okay."

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"Sorry. I should, like, write a flyer to distribute or something if this is gonna keep coming up... anyway. Daeva are like really indestructible so we're not expecting to be able to kill Demon Melkor but getting him boxed up somewhere he can't do any damage is likelier. Magic god things are in principle killable but we need an actually good way to do that."

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"If you have ten Fëanáros I doubt I'll think of anything they haven't. Who else is here, what else is there to work on -"

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"Me and a bunch of people from Singularity - you want names?"

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"...the worlds have all the same people? Yes, I suppose so -"

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"Not all but there's overlap especially in the Elves..." He pulls up a list of who's been resurrected from Singularity Valinor into Milliways and stuck around, reads it off.

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He doesn't recognize most of them, but the ones he does recognize are Vanyarin or Telerin, mostly not Noldor, which would explain it. And he mostly only takes special note of names for Maitimo anyway.

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"And from Abaddon there is another demon - we actually live in the same place when we're not on summon, turns out, there is at least one other demons world but it has kangaroo lizard daeva instead of human-looking ones - and ten Fëanáros aforementioned and ten of Curufinwë in with them - and Maitimo -"

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Oh no oh no that rather changes the prospects for peaceably sitting around a few centuries until he can return to his Maitimo with the means to win the war - it's possible an alternate universe Maitimo will respect his Maitimo's claim but not likely, not if it's centuries - 

- this crosses his face as strong surprise, not as anything negative, he knows better than to look upset -

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"...uh, the Singularity one of him and one of you have major drama, but this one is less drama-ful? I don't know about yours?"

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Drama is an interesting word. Rather clearly communicates 'I don't want to be bothered with it', which is a reasonable preference, all things considered... or at least a common one... "I suppose I shall have to meet him," he murmurs. "I'm sure we'll get along fine."

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"...okay. And a Tyelcormo and a Huan. They keep talking about getting Macalaurë for morale and the other demon, her name's Edie, has a twin and wants her, but they haven't done those yet."

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"Getting?"

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"Uh, before I explain that I will have to explain Information Security With Demons Around 101."

So he does that.

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At which point it quickly transpires that he does not know what a computer is.

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"You don't have computers?"

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"No?"

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"Do you have electricity."

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"...no."

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"Indoor plumbing?"

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"...yes, what are the other two, magic? Technology?"

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"Technology."

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"Both of the other Ardas had them?"

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"Yeah. Uh. Did you grow up in Valinor and then travel to Endorë."

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"Yes."

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"How. Did you get there."

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"Ships?"

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"What kind of ships."

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He sends the mental image. Big white swanships, coerced out of Olwë's hands he-didn't-actually-ask-Maitimo how, but it was very clean, however it happened.

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"The kind that go on water. I see. That makes no sense at all but okay. ...Wait how did you do that."

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"...osanwë? Do the other - mes - not have that, it's universal among Elves on my Arda..."

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"They have that but it doesn't work on me..."

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"Humans - I know you're not human but it's what you look like, sorry, - don't have it but ours works on them fine."

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"I used to be human, it's fine - uh - okay, maybe you have a magic version of osanwë instead of a cyborg version of osanwë and yours works on people who don't have chips. Maybe you don't have chips." He checks. "You do not have a chip."

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"A chip?"

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"In Singularity and Abaddon Elves have these thingies in their brains that do all kinds of cool stuff and some less cool stuff and also osanwë but only chip-to-chip. Magic god thing Maiar and Valar have non-chip osanwë but the Elves don't."

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"Okay. ...should I be careful not to read you, then, if you're not accustomed to it and don't habitually keep your thoughts private..."

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"Yikes, that didn't even occur to me, yeah, none of that. How does one keep thoughts private?"

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"I haven't been, humans in the empire aren't taught how to do it unless they're working on something important, so I don't assume everyone's sharing only what they intend - you just need a mental model to separate private from public - lots of people use visual or spatial metaphors, like storing some of your thoughts in a castle and putting some outside when you want someone to see them, or keeping them in the dark and shining light on specific ones - and then you practice until it's a matter of habit..."

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"...okay. How do I test if I've got it or not?"

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"I can try to read you and let you know if I'm sensing anything."

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"Okay, try it?"

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He listens to him. "I can tell you're present, can't tell what you're thinking. There is sometimes a natural way to fold the presence of a thinking person into the metaphor you're using - position yourself inside the castle, position the existence of a castle inside the castle..."

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Cam chiplocks the fact that he exists. "Now?"

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"Yep! Practice it until it's habit, sometimes it'll slip for people under stress and that's precisely when you wouldn't want it to slip."

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"Will do. Okay, the metaphor I was using actually segues pretty well into demon-related infosec - uh, hang on a sec, lemme warn everybody that they need to do this, for all I know chipped people do it anyway but there might be a distinction of some kind -" He pulls his computer off his belt, sends off a message (Another mid-war-Arda, magic god style Valar, pre-electricity tech level, Valinor-to-Endorë is a water boat thing, Elf osanwë is magic and permits mindreading of unchipped persons unless private thoughts are distinguished by metaphor; visitor is a Findekáno) to whom it may concern, and segues from there into use of the computer to summarize the concept and talk about demon limitations.

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"Huh, okay. So you can make ten of your kind of Elf but not of our kind of Elf?" Not that he wants ten of him, or thinks Maitimo'd want that. "And resurrect your kind but not our kind?"

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"Yeah. I mean, unless there's another trick to doing pure biology or magic-and-biology based minds, but the chip trick won't work."

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"Mandos can do it. Doesn't, very often, but can.  I should learn - everything between where my world is at and where the other worlds are at..."

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"But you mustn't escalate the war. I mean, not all of it would automatically do that, but you've gotta be really careful not to."

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"I wasn't planning to go back until we have a way to win it. The situation's stable right now, I'm not going to risk making it worse."

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"Okay, cool, just wanted to reiterate that. I wasn't clear on what was holding the Enemy back when I showed up in my Arda and I knew a lot of tech the locals didn't... anyway."

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"The orcs have swords. We have better swords. He hasn't escalated to whatever happens after swords but I have no desire to provoke him to do so."

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"Allllll kindsa shit happens after swords."

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"So you're not going to be very reassured that to all appearances we are winning."

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"I mean, it's better than if it looks like you're losing, on the object level. You're not winning really hard, right? That would be when I'd expect him to pull out post-sword stuff."

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"We are not winning really hard. Nice and slowly. It's coming up on three hundred years of essentially stalemate-where-we-control-everything-but-Angband-proper - I wonder if the King guessed, about the escalating..."

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"Who's doing your Kinging?"

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"Maitimo." He tries to keep his voice free of 'drama'.

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"Might've guessed, might not, not sure. Singularity he didn't but maybe he would've if I hadn't come up with it first."

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He is vaguely surprised Maitimo hasn't come in already, to make sure he doesn't say too much to this clearly-very-dangerous person. Or reached out to him over osanwë to make the terms clear and evaluate whether he's under appropriate oaths, even if he doesn't care to see the new Findekáno just yet. "His stated reason for delaying an assault on Angband proper is that we don't have a way to kill the Enemy yet. I suppose that's sufficient even without the expectation the Enemy can escalate past swords."

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"Yeah. ...On the bright side if you don't have computers it is possible yours is doing waaaaayyyyy less torture than the other two."

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"...oh?"

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"Uh, in the other two Ardas captured people - don't even have to be alive, just have intact chips - can be handled like computer files. Edited. Sped up. Duplicated."

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"He tortures prisoners but I don't think he can do that. Does it only work on people with chips -"

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"Yeah, he didn't bother capturing Dwarves or anything - they don't have them."

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"They're immune to osanwë. To all mind-affecting magic, actually."

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"Sounds like a good deal. I guess it'd be better to be selectively immune? But still."

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"Being uncoerceable into it is pretty nice." Maitimo likes asking him to give him the line to his private thoughts, to swear he's done so and not just added layers in his head...

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"Yeah, probably some personal variance on how important a desideratum that is. Edie - the other demon - chipped herself, she likes the telepathy a whole lot, I was less keen."

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"Because it lets people copy you, or because oaths are frightening, or -"

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"Didn't know people would be able to copy me at first, that took some discovering - it was your alt, actually - oaths are frightening, telepathy kinda weirds me out, Mandos is bad at his job, I generally like to understand anything I'm going to install in my brain real well..."

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"The chips are what lets Mandos reembody Elves, in the worlds where Elves have chips?"

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"Yeah, although even the Mandos who is a demon doesn't have the copy trick, he has backups that aren't mediated by his demon magic."

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"...how do you know that?"

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"If he were doing it my way and faking having to do actual backups, then the Silmarils would not be able to catch the backup data midstream because there wouldn't actually be any, and yet they can."

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"They can what?"

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"You will need to ask somebody else for more concrete detail on that, but doing an end run around Mandos for backup-related needs was I think the principal purpose of the things? They're also too smart to be demon-made and still work."

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"So what would the purpose of ours be, because we definitely have them and I don't think they'd have been designed to do that."

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"I have no idea what yours are for."

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"And our Fëanáro's long dead."

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(He saw the message almost as soon as it went out, but spent the intervening time hiding and complaining to Tyelcormo about how awkward this was going to be.)

 

(He gets over it.) 

(He comes downstairs.)

 

"Oh? How'd he pull that off?"

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He tries to control his flinch because it will annoy the Maitimo, the Maitimo will probably decide to train him out of it - 

"Hi." My father had him assassinated, there was a civil war, he could say. And this world's Maitimo would kill this world's version of Nolofinwë, preemptively, would thank him later for the tip - "he charged Angband, got killed."

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"I don't think I need to warn him not to do that."

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"It's a pity we don't have a way to resurrect this kind of Elf but at least on a practical level we're only missing the latest in swords."

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It is not a pity Fëanáro's dead. At least Maitimo's only strategically ruthless. "Yes, we sound very wholly outclassed."

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He stares at Findekáno rather intently. "Chip-based telepathy has the same interface for public and private thoughts, I think we should all be safe, but thank you for the advisory anyway. Bar'll give you a free drink and then you can run up a tab or ask one of the demons for counterfeit currency..."

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"Thank you, your -"

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"Sorry?"

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"I don't know your title."

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"Wanted outlaw. I'm going to be emperor of the multiverse but we've got some Melkors to kill first."

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Cam drops a pleasingly clinky sack of solid gold doubloons because why not on Bar's surface and says, "Start Findekáno a tab. - That is your name, right, the others match." And he puts a wing around the future emperor of the multiverse.

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Who kisses him. 

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This world had no 'drama' between the Maitimo and the Findekáno, and Cam disapproved of 'drama'. So either Cam was sufficiently exciting that Maitimo'd let his go and disclaimed any such behavior, or this Maitimo was much better at discretion - in any case it's good news, but not the kind it'd be wise to look too delighted at. "Yes, that's my name," he says, trying to settle for neutrally pleased.

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"You should also see the outside, I find it more designed for Elf sensibilities. Cam can make us a table out by the lake, we can get you caught up on electronics -" Inconvenient how Cam doesn't have osanwë and can't be told why to play along with this - 

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"Yeah, sure. My curriculum or yours, the trajectories'll be different..."

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"I'm inclined to go with yours, I have things sketched for humans and similar populations we're bringing a lot of demons and dropping modern infrastructure on but nothing particularly suited to catching Elves fighting Melkor with swords up - are you literate -"

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"Yes," he says, and follows them outside.

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"I am actually educated in electrical engineering but it was very much a For Demons course, I'll have to keep pausing in the middle of stuff to look up how you're supposed to do things like insulate wires or whatever when you can't just make them that way, but we'll muddle along."

Backyard! Table! Electrical engineering lessons!

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And when the electrical engineering lessons are done, "so, I don't want to be confrontational or anything, but most of what you said to me inside was a lie and I find that very worrying."

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He finds himself quite unable to move or look at Maitimo. If Maitimo guesses anyway - 

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"Huh?"

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"How my father died, whether he knew anything more useful than the latest swords - it might be he doesn't trust us yet, which is reasonable, but -"

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...Cam is not sure if he's supposed to remain present for this exchange or what.

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"Sorry. If you would prefer not to stick around you don't have to, but I'd rather have you here, in case you think of something I'm missing and also because he was considerably more relaxed before he saw me - Findekáno, is there anyone here you'd prefer to be talking to -"

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Frozen. Not looking at them.

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"I'm sorry? I can avoid calling you out on it in the future, just - how did my father die, does he know things more important to us than 'swords' -"

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If he makes Maitimo torture him for it that buys him quite a lot of time to think of a better lie.

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"Findekáno, what's wrong? - Would it help if Maitimo went away?"

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Well that's going to make Maitimo furious but on the other hand it is technically possible that he can wait out the indefinite length of time hiding behind Maitimo's boyfriend whenever they don't want each other - unless they both - but he'd liked Cam - 

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"...gonna take that as a yes. I'll be inside."


And he leaves.

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And doesn't offer any instructions, which is strange.

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"...so what's the matter?"

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It is very plausibly a ploy to get it out of him more readily. But -

 

"There was a civil war. My father had his father assassinated.  When my Maitimo heard he reacted - strongly - and I'm afraid for the alternate version of my father in this timeline, if this Maitimo learns that's what happened."

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"...okay. Well. I can bring back the chipped Elves, remember, if they start pulling crap like that."

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"Right. Thanks."

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"I'm not expecting it particularly but I figure a practically-grounded assurance might be more comforting than 'but he would never do thaaaaaaat', right?"

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"Very much so. Um. Sorry about that. You mentioned - not wanting to deal with - drama -"

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"Yeah, by 'drama' I mean in Singularity they make immature snide remarks, I don't mean assasssinations."

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And neither of those are what he'd been parsing that as - 

 

- he blinks at Cam - "for the purposes of oaths, am I supposed to treat them all the same or not - and what do I do if they ever disagree -"

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"I beg your pardon?"

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"If they disagree and I've adopted an interpretation where I just obey any of them I think that might count as contradicting oaths - might not, or they might come to an agreement rather than do that to me for too long, but -"

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"What oaths are you under?"

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"Obey conscionable orders, don't raise a hand to him, protect him with my life, let him read my thoughts whenever he asks. Don't leave the rooms, if I'm taken from the rooms come back and find him right away, don't enable or countenance or keep from him or participate in any effort to remove him from power. Unless pursuing my sincere best guess of what he'd want from me is incompatible with my standing orders and I am pursuing exactly my best guess of what he'd want from me, which I am trying to do but I'm not sure which of him count -"

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"My suspicion is the safe way to handle this is to declare the Maitimos not the same person but to consider the one available here as an authority on what yours would want if you are unsure of your best guess. Also: what the fuck."

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"Probably, yeah. Did - the one here ask you to handle me, is he okay with me talking with you -"

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"I am not telepathic, he is only chip-telepathic, and you would have seen me reading any notes he delivered," Cam says, "the sum total of the interaction between us since you arrived was observable to you - and also oh my god."

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Blink.

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"...can you give me a general idea of what your-Maitimo-properties you are using for best guess construction, here."

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"He wants to win the war. That's why I didn't leave immediately, if I stay you said you can eventually give me things to do that with. He wants to stay in power, hasn't been relevant, I can close my door behind me if I conclude this Maitimo might want to take it from him. He wants me - usually he'd be very opposed to sharing but I don't have a good guess on sharing with another version of him, I am tentatively going with that he might take it out on me but he doesn't actually prefer I, like, fight this one or avoid him or try to get protection from him or something, that'd be picking up bad habits -"

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"Are you pretty confident the war is top priority?"

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"Definitely."

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"Okay. If at any time you are less confident about the war-ending capacity of this - bunch - I can like actually show you the roomful of Fëanáros if hearsay won't do or something. Um. I am pretty sure that in both other worlds the relationship between your alts and his - when it existed; both sets are now broken up - did not. Involve oaths."

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"Oh. 

 

Well, if this one's not going to want anything then I'll just stay here quietly until you have the war-ending technology ready - oh, he'd probably want me to commit - I swear that if you make the war-ending technology conditional on concessions from him or from me I won't take it or help you get into my dimension to use it or bring that outcome about by any means-"

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"Do you have to actually blurt out oath wordings you come up with that quickly on it occurring to you that he might conceivably want one?"

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"Best effort at exactly what he wants, if there's a chance I'll be prevented from doing it later and more carefully - you can in fact ignore a positive oath for a while, it's very unpleasant but it can be done, but if I spent all my time resisting I'd have fallen apart hundreds of years ago -"

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"How long has this been going on?"

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"Two hundred eighty years."

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"Jesus fucking Christ."

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Blink. "It's okay?" he offers tentatively. 

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"No it fucking isn't!"

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"I mean, there are objectively much more important criteria in evaluating whether someone's a good king than how they treat their - toys - and I'm not going to pretend I'm impressed with him but it's really not something I'd prioritize - he asked me once if I wanted a clean execution, I said no -"

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"That's not what okay means, okay doesn't mean not worse than death. - Is toys in fact plural."

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"No. ...plausibly would have to give you that answer anyway. But no."

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"Believe me I'm acutely aware of the myriad ways in which your answers may currently be filtered."

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He shakes his head and looks away. "I'm sorry."

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"It doesn't sound to me like that makes very much sense, but okay. So. You're gonna be here for a while. Do you need to like, avoid this Maitimo, and/or his entire family, or anything, to let this while serve double duty as a nice long break from all that crap in addition to being a holding pattern while you wait for war-ending stuff to pop out of the engineers?"

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"That would be - nice, but - if he's going to be emperor of the multiverse I probably shouldn't avoid him -"

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"...why's that?"

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"I - disagree with mine, about how empires should be run, and sometimes he'll give me things on that front, and that game's more important if he has more power..."

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"...d'you wanna see our notes on multiversal empiring? I understand why you would need to err on the side of caution with respect to What Maitimos Are Like, I did that too for a bit and for way less reason, but this one seems legit."

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Maitimos are good liars. But - "yes, I'd like that. Thank you."

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"You want one of the fancy demon-security control-it-with-your-mind computers? The notes aren't high infosec but I'd still slightly hesitate to distribute hard copy."

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"...are there problems with that which I'm not thinking of..."

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"Uh, if your kind of Elf turns out not to tolerate the chip as well as the other kind of Elf I maybe have to run you to the infirmary or the security guy who can also do healing and is more capable than the infirmary lady of handling complex problems. Bar might be able to know in advance, she has more biology than one person can reasonably know because she has to be able to feed literally anybody without poisoning them or even making them go 'ick'?"

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"Okay. This is - not the same kind of chip that allows for you to resurrect people..."

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"No, totally different, I have one of the computer controlling kind, allows nothing of the sort."

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"Okay."

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"Let's run you by Bar, see what she can tell us... I'll tell Maitimo to shoo." Hey you, he writes, go upstairs, he needs to talk to Bar. Also I realize this is not necessarily a fair question to ask you but why are your alts all so screwed up.

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Going upstairs, and sorry, what?

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"He's going upstairs," says Cam, motioning to Findekáno. Tell you when I've got him situated-for-now.

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"Is he going to be upset with you -"

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"Doubt it very much. Yo Bar. Can you tell if Findekáno can take a chiplocker install okay?"

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There is no reason I am aware of to suspect that he will tolerate it differently from the other Elves.

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"Okay, cool. Also, can you get him a room without enabling even demons to figure out what the room number is."

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Yes. Turn around, please.

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Cam turns.

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And a square of salt appears on the surface of the bar beside the napkins, and bits of it subtract and reappear, spelling out a room number, and then the salt vanishes.

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"Thank you," he murmurs, and says to Cam, "I think you can turn back around now, she sent a number - I appreciate the thought but I will tell you if you want -"

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"I have absolutely no legitimate reason to want your room number! You're generically telepathic! If I require your involvement in something I will ask!" Cam says, turning around. "Me and Edie will still be able to make you room keys, but it's a maze up there and we will not be able to find you as long as you don't tell anybody where you are and that means we will not casually drop the information if Maitimo or somebody connected thereto wants it. You'd probably find it prettier outside but Maitimo's been living in the woods, and anyway it'll be a nice big room you can decorate however you want - you will however have to carry things upstairs yourself to avoid showing us the place."

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"...okay. Thank you."

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"You're welcome. Let's go do your chip install in the security office and introduce you as long as we're there. Thank you Bar." And around the corner Cam leads him.

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And he follows. And here is the Security office.

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"Hi Nechar, this is Findekáno. I'm gonna install a chip in his head, it should be fine but can you spot me?"

"Sure," says the security guy.

 

"There," Cam says presently. "You come out and loom when people tell Bar they'd like Security presence, right, not just if someone's actually mid-rulebreaking?"

"Yeah, sure," Nechar says. "Why?"

"Complicated reasons Findekáno should not be around Maitimo."

"No outside business conflict is a rule."

"It's more complicated than that. Anyway, if Findekáno calls you - he's telepathic, do not be alarmed if he doesn't do that through Bar - can you make sure that Maitimo doesn't, like, leave the main bar area and therefore your watchful eye with him?"

"Sure dude," says Nechar.

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"...thank you," he says.

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"No problem," says Nechar.

"And can you let me and Findekáno know if you're about to shift change?" Cam asks.

"I guess. Might forget."

"Okay - Bar, can you let us know?"

When I see you, napkins the Bar extension in the back of the office.

"Okay, thanks."

Certainly.

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If Maitimo offers to trade some kinder multiverse policy for the room number he is not going to call Security. But he smiles appreciatively at Cam anyway, it's a very practical approach to the problem. 

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And Cam leads him out of the security office - "That's the infirmary in there, the lady in it is very sweet but she's got some kind of magical mental impairment and can't hold a normal conversation -" - and here is the main bar again. Cam hands him a computer. "And now you can teach it to be controlled by your will, takes a few minutes."

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He starts doing that.

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And then Cam can send him empire-ing notes.

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Which he'll read, quietly, relaxing as he does. He was right to think Cam was good, Cam is good. This'll be okay, at least insofar as Maitimo has to stick to his stated objectives.

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"...so yeah," says Cam, when he's had a chance to skim the whole thing. "I think this one is not like your one but for that reason he's not going to kick up a fuss about being avoided."

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This one has different incentives than his one. His one was capable of compassion and broad-mindedness back before he'd had the opportunity for anything different. 

 

"Then I will probably just - stay quietly out of the way, take a break, learn all these things - if that's all right -"

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"That is entirely all right.

 

"If this Maitimo fucks with you, will you be able to tell me?"

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"Probably not, I doubt mine would want yours to get in trouble and it's obvious you'd be upset with him."

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Sigh. "Okay, just thought I'd check."

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"I appreciate it."

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"Least I can do. D'you want me to introduce you to Edie?"

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"Sure."

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So Cam writes Edie a note. The aforementioned Findekáno's world in addition to being low-tech and having magic god style Valar is also some kind of horrifying mirror universe or something (I hope) and I think he would be best served by meeting more people who are not Maitimo to hang out with while he's waiting for engineering output, come down to the bar?

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...Edie comes down to the bar.

"Hi."

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"Hi! Nice to meet you."

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"...Full disclosure, I'm dating Tyelcormo, is that going to make this weird."

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"I don't have any grievances with him. He'll probably side with his brother if it comes up but Cam doesn't think it will."

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"I don't actually know what's going on, Cam's note was pretty terse."

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"I can't figure out if your world's generally much more civilized than ours, possibly as a consequence of having so much more technology, or if it's just that demons care about various things and so people who want to trade with demons need to be unobjectionable...the latter consideration is less likely to apply to Tyelcormo - anyway, our Noldor had a civil war and it was ugly and my Maitimo's been holding me prisoner since it ended, nearly three hundred years ago, and if he came up with plans to rule the multiverse they'd be - tidier but less nice."

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"...I see. That does sound really unpleasant, I'm sorry."

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"I am also sworn to go straight back to him if I find myself escaped, unless I'm doing exactly what he'd want me to be doing, which means you should consider me to be working for him for as long as I'm here. Luckily we both want Melkor dead very badly."

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"Sworn?"

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"Do space Elves not have that, Cam seemed familiar..."

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"Yes, that is a thing, but why...?"

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"...it's very hard to keep Elves prisoner, it's not as if you can lock us up, so if you want to do it effectively you need an oath to come back either at a specific time or if removed from a specific set of locations, Maitimo alternates..."

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"And you agreed to this so you wouldn't literally die?"

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"Yes."

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"That's awful, I'm sorry."

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"It's usually not a problem since I usually don't make escape attempts, I wasn't expecting something that counts as an escape that was also a win-the-war opportunity to show up."

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"Winning the war's important. I guess if Valinor and Endore aren't different planets you couldn't go Cam's route even if you had a demon--well, you couldn't anyway, you don't have chips and that method's horrifying anyway."

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"Cam's route?"

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"That would be the story I don't like telling," Cam says, and he goes across the room to plop in front of the fireplace.

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"...So I'm guessing based on your technology level that you won't know what I mean if I say black hole..."

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"No..."

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"Morgoth offered to swear not to do evil shit if Cam destroyed Valinor. Cam held out until he could resurrect all the Elves there and had a sufficiently tight wording before he accepted."

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And he'd thought Cam was safe he probably hasn't interacted with enough non-Maitimo people his judgment's probably all off - this person would find it objectionable to let their boyfriend rape me they must be a delightful human being -

 

- Maitimo wouldn't want him to make a fuss and he doesn't want to make a fuss, straightfoward, that -

"...

 

...okay," he says evenly. 

 

 

- not everyone in Valinor is an Elf - 

 

- the Valar are the only thing holding the Enemy back, if it's true he could escalate - 

- it's not as if you can't hurt people very very badly without ever raising a hand to them or ordering it done, he's seen Maitimo in motion - 

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"Your alt there wasn't okay with it either. Cam didn't think it was okay, but Morgoth was torturing thousands of people for years every second, and he decided to make the tradeoff, and ever since then he's had a 'you committed an atrocity, you lose' button in his head if he ever argues with someone.

 

I don't think I could have done it, if it makes you feel better, even if I thought that the tradeoff was worth it."

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"Maitimo thinks he's a more effective King because of what he does to me, and the war's more important than one person, so the tradeoff is obviously worth it -"

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"I'm sorry."

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He'd been stupid to let down his guard in the first place - yes, tell everyone exactly how easily they can tug you around, just because he makes reassuringly horrified faces - 

 

- until the tradeoff's worth it - but then he'll feel really bad, don't you know - 

"I won't make him feel guilty over it, don't worry."

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"What?"

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"I won't make Cam feel guilty over it."

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"...You worry about you, Cam's dealing with it. It really doesn't sound like it's you who needs to be careful of his feelings here."

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"Okay. Have they considered - distributing populations more, across the multiverse, so fewer people die the next time there's something worth killing a world over..."

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"...I don't think that's going to come up again? We have Milliways now, if we come across a problem of that magnitude we can just shut the door and have infinite time to figure out something better. But yes, I take your point."

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"Are you planning on leaving people in here indefinitely so you can always find it?"

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"I'm not sure of the exact details, I'd have to ask. It might be that, it might be something the Feanaros invented..."

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"Okay. 

 

Can you recommend anything from the bar -"

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"The Bar does recommendations herself! If you wanted me to recommend you something I could just make it."

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"Bar, I'd like something to eat," he says.

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And Bar produces potato and sausage soup and a fried polenta square under roasted squash in Béarnaise and a slab of cheese-crusted halibut and a slice of blueberry pie and a frothy glass of something unidentifiably delicious and pale.

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And it is delicious. Arda does not have food this good, and he says so. 

 

And then he'll go up to his room if no one minds.

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No one minds.

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"Bye," he says, "thanks," and he goes up to find the room.

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It is on the floor indicated by its first number, a little off to the right, with a view of the exploding stars.

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And he goes in and closes the door and finds the exploding stars vaguely upsetting - though very pretty - and he curls up on the floor in the corner and calms himself down and reads on his computer and eventually falls asleep.

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Meanwhile Cam is having a bit of a mood over by the fireplace, wings scrunched up tight against his back.

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"Hey. ...Sorry about that, but I think keeping it from him would have been worse in the long run."

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"Yeah, I know. Can you like - look in on him now and then, you aren't dating Maitimo and haven't holed any planets..."

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"Well, I don't know where his room is, but if I see him I can try to check up on him."

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"Gave him a computer, you can write him too."

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"Okay.

 

What a mess."

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"Yeah."

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"Is there anything actually helpful I can do right now or should I go hug my boyfriend to feel better."

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"Go hug your boyfriend," Cam sighs.

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"I'm sorry. I wish things sucked less."

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"Yeah, me too."

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And she sighs and goes back upstairs to hug her boyfriend.

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Coast's clear, Cam writes Maitimo.

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He comes down a minute later, looking worried, and looks more worried when he sees Cam. "...what happened?"

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"Your alt's fucked up, he's been keeping that Findekáno prisoner with a sufficiently rotated dose of conventional captivity and oaths that he doesn't die of it for nearly three hundred years. Got him a room such that me and Edie couldn't get the number if we tried. Introduced him to the security guy. Got him a computer. Showed him multiversal empire related notes.

"Introduced him to Edie so he'd have somebody relatively neutral around to talk to and I hope I already handled everything he needed to trust me for."

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"...oh. Oh, fuck, I'm sorry - he's been what -he sits down, hard - "is he okay, are you okay -"

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"He got some food from Bar and went up to his room and I asked Edie to check on him now and then insofar as this can be done without knowing where his room is." Cam tips over to lean on his boyfriend, ambiguous who he's comforting.

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He hugs him.

 

"What the fuck - three hundred years -"

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Cam scrunches up in his arms without relaxing. "He can stay here while waiting for end-of-war stuff but this contingency in his oath setup only applies if he's operating under his best guess of what your alt would want him to do. War-ending is top priority, mercifully."

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"What are the exact words - if he's rotating there's got to be an expiration condition, what is it -"

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"I didn't get exact words -" He did transcribe the summary though.

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"What the Hell - even if someone were incredibly dangerous these are not the terms I'd -"

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"We've got a bit of a problem with punishments between 'fines' and 'death', because Elves die if imprisoned. We have - oaths as optional sentences, you can choose it if you prefer it to whatever sentence your actions would merit otherwise, they're nothing at all like this - do you want me to promise to answer questions completely and truthfully for a little bit, I think I would want that in your place, I won't have hurt feelings..."

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"Not sure what I'd ask exactly..."

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"Well, you can think about it, let me know if you decide it'll help. If someone murders someone else in Valinor, which hasn't happened in a thousand years, but if it did, then after they were convicted and sentenced they could choose to swear not to kill people instead of being exiled, and the wording would undergo review by the courts, it is not unheard of as a concept."

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"Well, there were a lot of assassinations flying around before the captivity started."

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"That doesn't make that set of oaths anywhere near defensible but it's possibly useful as an explanation."

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"Yeah."

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"...is there something else?"

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"He's worried about making you angry and had to try to figure out if you count as being your alt for some oath-related purposes and stuff and - ugh."

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"Safe answer on that's 'no', I have a feeling my alt and I disagree on a great deal, but if the expiration condition on the oaths is that I say or do something then he should default to 'yes' and we can get him clear of them. I feel badly about scaring him earlier, I can definitely just avoid him aside from possibly that -"

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"Yeah, I told him I suspected the thing was to say you don't count as your alt but may be a useful authority on what he'd want. I'm not sure how much he can flip-flop on it..."

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"Not much - 

 

- if I'm ever under oaths that force me to do what I think someone else would want me doing, I want you to physically prevent me from speaking, can't swear new oaths that way, but I don't know that that wouldn't - make things worse, under the circumstances -"

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"He did swear a new oath and I was too stunned to just fill his mouth with caramel -"

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"There's a pepper-sprayish thing for the purpose -" he names the brand - "it's unpleasant but it acts on the vocal cords, like very suddenly and completely losing your voice to a bad cold, so you can't choke on it - lasts all day, too - you're supposed to treat someone as hostile, under an oath like that, but it sounds like he has messed up expectations about his treatment anyway."

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Cam sends Edie the name of the spray and For if he starts swearing things inadvisably under his existing heap of oaths.

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After a few moments she replies, Thanks. Fuck. Did that come up?

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Yeah I was too startled to stop him. Swore if we made war-ending tech contingent on concessions from him or his Maitimo he wouldn't take it or help us get to his world or bring that outcome about by any means.

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Ugh.

 

If he's making oaths anyway he could make them when we're not around and tell us after...

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There's probably some leverage to be had by not hearing them and not hearing him swear he made them.

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I guess. Ugh, what a mess.

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Yep. Sorry to have to dump it in your lap like that.

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I am like the least traumatized person here, don't apologize to me.

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Okay.

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I mean I guess you can apologize for stuff that's actually your fault and harms me, but this is not that.

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This is sort of my fault and might at least inconvenience you.

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How is this your fault?

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I took deliberate actions which render me indefinitely unsuitable for random people to trust?

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Oh, that part.

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Yep.

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I'll live.

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Thank you.

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You're welcome.

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And Cam scrolls up to his rendering of the oath Findekáno made and shows it to Maitimo.

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"Well, fuck. ...depending on exact words these might all expire if my alt is dead, not that I have sufficient explanation to murder someone but I feel like I have very close to sufficient information -

I wish my universe's Findekáno were here."

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"I'm not sure he'd be particularly more comforting - this one would have to assume he was potentially under similar oaths, pretending whatever you wanted him to pretend -"

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He shudders. "Conveniently he can swear that he's not. 


Though."

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"Though?"

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"If I were evil, which I am not and I am happy to provide you with any confirmation you'd find reassuring of that - you can have people swear motive or belief-altering oaths and then give them an amnestic, most oaths just aren't in force if you don't recall making them but the kind that change your head around are -"

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"...Your brand of Elf installs these fucking things. On purpose."

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"I have never heard of anyone using motive or belief altering oaths for anything scarier than "I swear I'll really enjoy doing my laundry!"

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Sigh.

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Hug. "Can I see the whole conversation or should I not-"

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"The one with Edie? Sure -" He scrolls it.

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"I meant the one after I left, but thanks..."

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"Wasn't transcribing the whole time. Did take notes." He produces the notes.

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By the end of which he is trembling violently.

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That'll get Cam to loosen up enough to unfold a wing and wrap it around him.

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"I am really really not the victim here," he says, but leans into it.

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"Yes well neither of us can go hug the actual victim usefully so."

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"We could go find my alternate but we probably shouldn't do that, isn't - isn't actually constructive -"

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"We'd need Findekáno to hold the door which he won't and what would we even do with him."

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"Can't trade Findekáno any concessions for tech to end the war, can offer him that, get him to - cancel them all, I guess, and figure out what else he's done and - rest depends on information we don't have yet -"

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"Yeah."

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"Are you sure you don't want some form of reassurance I'm not-"

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"I do I just don't know how to - word it or anything - and it would be kind of dumb to take suggestions from you on it so -"

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"Yeah, fair." He closes his eyes and leans in a little more and shivers. 

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The wing squeezes. Cam drops his head on Maitimo's shoulder.

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After a while he relaxes slightly. "Complete written works over a hundred thousand words in that world, so I can search for histories..."

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Cam hands him a compilation.

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"Thanks." There's not much; this world hasn't invented the printing press yet, after all. He starts searching. 

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Eventually: "You could swear that there are no facts known to you which, if I learned them, would seem to me to have been omissions from this conversation. And that you're however sure you are that you haven't resorted to amnestics, I guess."

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"Um. I have enjoyed play with consenting partners along the lines of what my evil alternate seems to enjoy doing to prisoners. They also enjoyed themselves and I have absolutely no reason to think they were there for any reason other than wanting to be and I have no idea if you'd consider that an omission so there it is. I swear that I don't have any shifts in my motives or goals that are plausibly attributable to having sworn and forgotten something, don't have any gaps in my memory, expect that I would know I'd used amnestics, and also don't have a supply or access to one except via demons, and in general consider it vanishingly unlikely that I've done that at all and even more vanishingly unlikely that I'd have done it to forget having given someone unconscionable orders, there being very few of those I'd be tempted to give and even fewer that'd be useful if I didn't remember I'd given them.

 

I swear that there are no facts known to me which, if you learned them, will seem to you to have been omissions from this conversation."

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"Okay." Sigh. Snuggle.

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Sigh. "You can ask about anything later if you think of it."

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"Yeah."

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"Evil awful oath-chips: useful occasionally."

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"If they were never useful I would be considerably more bewildered about their widespread adoption."

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"There's got to be a safer way to do it, ones that only enforce 'I'm telling the truth'-type oaths or something -"

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"Who designed 'em, in your world?"

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"Demons."

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"Not any specific demon, just some demon or demons?"

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"Mandos claims credit, but not especially credibly, and our daeva are way ahead of us on most tech - much older society -"

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"Brilliant work, Mandos-or-whoever-you're-plagiarizing..."

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"And we were all impressed with them for ending death before Edie happened to mention that non-chipped people don't actually stop existing when they die anyway..."

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"Might depend. Non-chipped humans don't, but Elves might be different. And Limbo does kinda suck..."

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"Being resurrectable is great, I am just not at all sure the cost-benefit comes out ahead -

 

 

 

- our Melkor. Chip. Has anyone checked -"

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"- to see if he's chipped? I haven't, Edie may've -"

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"If he is then anyone can bring him back even if we find a way to kill him -"

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"Annnnnd suddenly infosec is more desperately important than ever - I'm somewhat afraid to check -"

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Hugs. "There are still solutions they're just all fairly monstrous and not guaranteed."

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"Yeah -"

Cam checks.

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Nope.

 

He takes a deep breath. "Well. Today: could in fact have been worse."

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"Yeah. Small mercies."

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"The other normal non-prehistory Arda, my alt there..."

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"I didn't read anything more damning than 'probably not boyfriend material' but I'm not sure how to be sure -"

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"I am wondering if we'd have read anything damning if this one'd wandered in."

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"Yeah, no idea. You'd have an easier time seeing it than me, but if anybody could fool you..."

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"Might not think he'd need to. I would, um, have defaulted to assuming alternate universe versions of me were like me, if he - 

 

- but the ones in your world aren't very accessible and the last thing we'd want to do would be call them here if it turns out that -"

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"Yeah."

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"I am tempted to say we can fork a me and kill him if he can't swear to not being evil but this isn't urgent, there's no actual reason to do that -"

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"Also I don't, like, enjoy killing people."

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"Under the circumstances I'd be happy to."

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"Charming."

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"Have you tried imagining - if it were you - if the Revelation on that world wore your face and had all your clever ideas but, you know, was the sort of demon who stole souls, and was only not doing anything more interesting than that because no one'd slipped up on a binding yet..."

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"Yeah.

I wouldn't recreationally kill him though."

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"Even if we could make copies of the definitely-evil one I wouldn't suggest we do that for stress relief, but we've talked about starting time on your world again to collaborate with more people or to do daevafying if it turns out not to work in Milliways, it's important to know if my alt there is going to - or has already - summon a different demon, get a version of his boyfriend made who hasn't slipped the leash in exchange for the secret of how to make minds -"

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"Singularity Findekáno suggested getting an earlier version of Singularity Maitimo who hadn't sworn the stupid Silmaril oath, which I doubt very much any conventional leashing would permit or any conventional leash-slipping would motivate..."

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"Okay, so those ones are probably just mutual disasters. Also what."

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"They're a mess it's very off-putting. What specifically are you whatting about."

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"Stupid Silmaril oath?"

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"There was an oath. About the Silmarils. It was stupid. I may have the exact words somewhere..." He goes looking through his files. Here it is.

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"That is stupid. 

Maybe there's a world where we're evil and a world where we're stupid."

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"Maybe. I mean, they're not - across-the-board stupid? I would not expect to beat Singularity Matimo more often at Governor, I was suitably enthusiastic about the proposition 'yeah sure ten of Fëanáro with all the time in the world Just Wins'..."

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"So specifically more - reckless, more inclined to make bad decisions I'd find tempting and then discard -"

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"Something like that."

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"I can't think how that'd be caused by the Valar being magic and summoning not being widely known, but then I also can't think how living before the invention of electricity would make me evil, clearly worlds have other differences..."

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"Well, the magic Valar may or may not have been able to curse your entire tribe but they certainly seemed to think they could."

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"Wait, what?"

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"Did I not mention this? I feel like I mentioned this but maybe you weren't around." He goes and finds his notes on the Doom (text thereof, ranting about, results of pestering the Valar about how contagious it might be).

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"I missed that or it would have sprung more readily to mind as a hypothesis for 'what the fuck is wrong with them'.

 

Wow, our Valar are looking positively charming by comparison and I'm sure Edie told you what they did."

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"Yeah, she mentioned. Told me that whatever I read she hadn't killed anyone."

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Hug.

 

 

"Wonder what being under a curse feels like, if it feels like anything."

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"No one mentioned feeling it if it did."

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"Were there changes to the chips at the moment of Dooming, beyond baseline -"

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"...didn't check..."

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"Do you mind if I do - I can look at me, if there are privacy concerns - sorry, I just find 'under a curse' to be vaguely distressing as a possible explanation -"

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"You just want demonic chips to run through the reader and peer at?"

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"Ideally."

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"Dunno how much you'll be able to tell from the raw data, it's pretty opaque, but - okay, reader's in my room."

Up they go.

Permalink Mark Unread

"Can you do 'immediately before the Doom' and 'immediately after the Doom' or do I need to look for Doom timing..."

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"I should be able to parameterize on that -" Chips. "Before, after." He hands them over.

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"Thanks. - I should get a room so Findekáno feels like he can go outside -"

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"I'm not sure that will do it unless you're planning to never go outdoors..."

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"That is what I was planning."

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"Maybe Bar can keep track of whether you're in or out so he can check with her."

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"Could work - if he's supposed to do whatever the evil one wants I would want to be told about this place and told to come here - as soon as the bar wasn't occupied -"

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"...shit. Uh."

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"We can try to always have someone in the bar but -"

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"We left it empty when we came up here."

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"And Bar can't tell you if he already did, the confidentiality policy -

 

you can totally find the room, can't you."

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"No, I actually can't!"

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"Can you check if there's another Maitimo in here anywhere -"

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"That I can do."

Maitimos in Milliways besides this one:...

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Yep.

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Cam looks at his mini basement dweller and scowls.

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"Oh, fuck. I should have thought of that sooner - should have thought of it immediately - I even said you treat people under an oath like that as hostile and then I was just too careless to think it through -"

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"I thought he took me seriously enough when I pointed out that any time with the door open was time his Melkor could spend continuing to torture people, whoops." And he sends out a message To Whom It May Concern, attn: evil Maitimo has entered the building.

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"It wouldn't be a question of how seriously he took it, just of whether evil me would care- 

 -what are we going to do -"

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"I'm going to go talk to Nechar and see if he can break oaths, I should have done that in the first place."

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"...good idea."

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So Cam goes and does that and presently Maitimo has a message: He doesn't know if he can till he tries it and doesn't want to try it on a non-consenting subject which I assume is not going to be an option.

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I'm happy to swear never to say the phrase "dreaming pineapple sandwich'" and see if he can clear it or something - can we explain the situation with the non-consenting subject - are we inclined to negotiate with evil Maitimo -

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You have chipbased oaths, results might be different. I explained, he says that sounds terrible but Milliways is neutral territory. I'm sort of guarding the door now.

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Do you want me to come down.

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Up to you but I don't know what I'll actually say if either of them shows up.

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There is a pounding on the door of Cam's room.

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Me neither but I think I'll come down. And he opens the door.

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"I got Cam's message."

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"This is my fault," he says, starting to walk downstairs, "I know the procedures for handling someone under oaths like that and I didn't want to insist because - well, because there was already one of me keeping him a prisoner - I was prioritizing being unobjectionable over his actual well-being -"

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"Is there any reason I should not attempt to intimidate him with phrases like 'I'm the same thing as our world's Valar'? I'm assuming it's a bad idea and you should talk me out of it but I can't quite think of why to talk myself out of it..."

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"Security will probably step in if threats are made - you will hear no complaints from me if you just kill him faster than Security can do anything but depending on the exact wording of the oaths that may not help -"

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"I was thinking more of implying things than direct oaths--you actually seem madder than keeping someone a prisoner unjustly would warrant, am I missing context?"

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"Yes, you are."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Should I continue to be missing context, and if so is my presence downstairs going to be more hindrance than help?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Don't think it'll matter and don't think so - he was trying to figure out whether his version would want him to fight me off when I inevitably decided to drag him to bed because his version would be jealous or whether his version would want him to let me so he didn't develop the bad habit of trying to resist -"

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"What."

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"Does my level of anger seem appropriate to the situation now."

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"If I kill him do we get kicked out, I hate to say it but one rapist isn't worth losing Milliways, not when Morgoth's doing what he's doing--"

Permalink Mark Unread

 

 

"No, no, it's not - if we catch him somewhere not monitored by security -"

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"Which gets harder if I threaten him, doesn't it. On the other hand if we decide not to do anything that alerts him to the possibility we want to kill him then we can't do anything else to resolve the situation--and he might figure out anyway, if being a monster hasn't dinged his people-psychicness...."

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"Right." And downstairs. 

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Sitting at the bar, quizzing her about the "outside business" rule.

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'This is an ongoing crime being committed," he says to Bar, "it's not like being neutral if a Melkor walked in, it's like being neutral if he walked in and tiled the outside with servers to torture people on."

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"Crime" is not a universally consistent concept, says Bar.

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"No one told the Findekáno where Security does and doesn't monitor, right?"

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"...may've picked it up from the conversation with Security."

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Let me enter the room first? With my wingspan I think I'm the more visually impressive figure, and if I come in after you it's more likely to be the impression that I answer to you, which, under the circumstances, can't help.

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"Maitimos on the second floor? Maitimos on the third floor?"

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Cam checks floors - "I don't think brute force will get you there though -"

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"Because of the inconsistent layout, yeah, probably not - well. They don't have a demon. They don't have food. They have to come down eventually."

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"Yeah. And apparently I am allowed to revoke unspent tab I contributed."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Great. So we sit here and wait and read - Edie, the complete written works of this world take up less space than a modern movie, they haven't invented the printing press yet -"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Feanaro existed and they don't have the printing press?"

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"Well, I'm evil, maybe that world's version of my father spent his time developing torture instruments or something. But we can read through it, try to figure out - why - and what leverage we might have -"

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She conjures a complete written works for everyone.

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And they settle in to read. "...You realize this could take a long time depending on how the landlords are fucking with us today."

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"Well, this is loosely what we were doing before they arrived and I am not in the mood for a game....Edie, where's Tyelcormo -"

Permalink Mark Unread

"He's outside. Went for a run with Huan."

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"I suppose there's no point in asking him to come back."

 

And reading. "Oh, this version of my father invented writing. They were behind us from the start - he did it around the time mine did the printing press - I was in fact born before indoor plumbing was invented -"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Please do not use the first person for alts especially this one."

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"It is super weird having you refer to him in the first person."

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"Point taken.

 

They're more evil than us but there's no, like, 'and that's when Melkor gave three generations of Elves their education on ethics -'"

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"What are the other more-evil manifestations?"

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"Crime rate of, like, non-negligible. The murder of this guild merchant sparked these riots, so-and-so was a major proponent of this bill until his wife killed him in a domestic incident  - my Noldor had a population of thirteen million and one murder every thousand years -"

Permalink Mark Unread

"...are they worse than, say, a human population, just to be perfectly fair here?"

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"I don't know what a normal human population's crime rate is, but they are probably not worse than a pre-literate human population - hell, Evil Me is probably not even making a splash by comparison to evil human rulers - I can't find references to famines or population relocations in his empire -"

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"I might censor the press," says a voice from the base of the stairs. "I do, actually, though I'm not covering for any famines - Bar, can we have breakfast for two?"

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Would you like to pay now or run up a tab? inquires Bar.

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Last chance to talk me out of threatening him, she tells non-evil Maitimo.

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What does that accomplish, exactly, besides making us feel good -

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"I'd like to run up a tab, please. We'll pay you back as soon as we open the door to our world again, but we're probably not going to do that until we have the means to win the war, is that going to be a problem?"

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Although various patrons have superstitions about the wisdom of running up a tab I do not personally mind in the least. A pair of matching breakfasts appear. Oatmeal with raisins and dates and maple and cream and walnuts. Slices of bacon spinach mozzarella frittata. Tiny watermelon halves with spoons sticking out of them. Smoothies.

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"Oooh, delicious, thank you. Am I safe upstairs, or is security only for down here?"

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Security will intervene if you cause particularly substantial property damage upstairs or excessively harass the giant squid who, being a giant squid, cannot enjoy the particular protection of the main bar area. Otherwise it is downstairs public interior areas only which are monitored.

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"Okay." He sighs and looks at everyone else. "Findekáno doesn't want to see you; I can drag him downstairs anyway and then breakfast can be excruciating and we can camp out here indefinitely, or you can observe that you will presumably have years of opportunities to assassinate me and it's an absurd chance to take until you're at least close on a solution to the Enemy and then I can go upstairs in one piece? Are there assurances that'll help that happen?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Lets start with why in the fucking hell we should believe a word out of your mouth particularly on what your rape victim wants."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I swear that nothing I've said in this conversation has been a lie or misleading or relevantly incomplete. He was a wreck when he found me, that contingency operated badly, we've been talking through how to phrase it more carefully though in our defense this wasn't on the list of concerns we anticipated. He's terrified of you and thinks you hate him and spent a while crying over the world where Valinor got destroyed and asking me to promise I wouldn't do that - which I didn't - I can't, if it might end the war -"

Permalink Mark Unread

"...He thinks we hate him?"

Permalink Mark Unread

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"Don't. Bring. That. Up. Again."

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"I apologize," he says, eyes on Cam. "That was thoughtless. He thinks you're angry with him for letting me in. I didn't know you well enough to assess that one way or the other. I can convey reassurances if you'd like."

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"I think you can guess what I'd like," she mutters. "Obviously we're not going to blame someone under coercive oaths for being coerced, not being a rapist does not, shockingly enough, obviate one's ability to think."

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"Wasn't under the impression he decided to do it of his own free will," murmurs Cam.

Permalink Mark Unread

"He didn't. It was what I'd want and it was a fucking dangerous phrasing - no leeway - I can tell him you knew that."

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Or you could go die in a fire, she does her best to suggest through body language.

Permalink Mark Unread

Permalink Mark Unread

"Advantage to killing you now is you can't fuck with him further."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Yeah. He's under really light orders right now, it's not a bad time for it if you're sufficiently confident you won't get evicted and you don't care how terrified he is of you - because he'll be terrified of you, don't do summary executions for crimes committed outside my jurisdiction and until he heard about the -"

Permalink Mark Unread

"I told you to shut the fuck up."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Until he heard about scarier things I was his benchmark for scary people not literally working for the Enemy."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Hey, Bar. Hypothetically, if someone kills someone else in Milliways, are they evicted, or what?"

Permalink Mark Unread

Cam writes his Maitimo a little note - To the extent you have influence over him you should spend it on Findekáno not me and to the extent you don't you're just painting a target on me.

Permalink Mark Unread

Within the main bar area, that would be typical absent some kind of extenuating circumstance.

Permalink Mark Unread

He would need, like, an actual pen and paper to write back to Cam. So he can't say that, yes, point taken, but to the extent he has influence it's in the common ground they're tentatively establishing right now - it's not a 'I have so much and I can spend it' thing, this is a Fëanorian, we won't get anywhere if he's not confident we're trading rather than bullying -

Permalink Mark Unread

"Would it get anyone else kicked out too, or just the person who did it, and what counts as an extenuating circumstance?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Are they both yours?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"They'll both probably listen to me if I tell them to back off, yes - though I had to swear that I wasn't like you - do you know how painful it is to realize that you need to offer people you care about assurance that you're not something they'd be disgusted they knew -"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Not into men, or not into hurting them?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Is consent just not a concept your world has or something."

Permalink Mark Unread

"...not really? But I don't have a deficit, I could have figured it out, I just don't see why I should."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Makes sense, if the only people more powerful than you were the Maiar and Valar and therefore in some respects beneath your contempt. But now the stage is bigger, now you're going to need it."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Really compelling introduction, this."

Permalink Mark Unread

(Bar answers Edie: If the perpetrator were acting on the clear authority of another party that patron too would be shown out. Uninvolved or less authoritatively involved guests would not be punished.)

Permalink Mark Unread

"I can't help you if you're sleeping with someone you've got under obedience oaths, I just can't. I'm not that gifted, together we're not that gifted, I can walk a really narrow line but that's not giving me anything at all to stand on. There's someone here who might be able to clear oaths up. Let him do that, promise me you won't just pick the next of the thousand avenues available to you to get him in bed without making him want you -

- and then win him back - you've got centuries in here, you've got projects to plan, you're not going to get a better chance and think about the implications of a multiverse, you cannot have forever, not like this -"

Permalink Mark Unread

 

"And you and your friends swear not to use your magic on either of us, here or anywhere else, and not to place any conditions on the technology you give us, and not to enable or assist or be a party to efforts to remove me from power -"

Permalink Mark Unread

"I can try but they're really upset with you and in my culture oaths that are binding over future action are really taboo -"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Then I'm unclear on what you're offering."

Permalink Mark Unread

"An opening to convince them not to hate you, not immunity to all the consequences of them doing so."

Permalink Mark Unread

 

 

"I will talk it over with Findekáno."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Thank you."

Permalink Mark Unread

For the record, she tells not-evil Maitimo, I'm fine with swearing whatever as long as it doesn't include not destroying my chip.

Permalink Mark Unread

We're not going to be able to get that past him, he's not stupid, the phrasing I'd want would be enough to preclude taking actions that'll enable you to discard this oath, especially if we'll have just witnessed someone removing oaths.

Permalink Mark Unread

Well, then you can certainly tell him there isn't anything he can offer that will cause me to discard the ability to ever release myself from an oath made to anyone ever again.

Permalink Mark Unread

Yeah, didn't think so. Not planning on saying so.

Permalink Mark Unread

Did he seriously think I would do that? ...For that matter, even if ethics wasn't an issue, did it not occur to him that you might be unable to pull that shit with either of us? I think I'm offended.

Permalink Mark Unread

I don't try manipulating people very often. If he thinks going all-out I could pull it off he might not be wrong.

Permalink Mark Unread

And he glances assessingly around the room and then takes the breakfasts, thanks Bar, and goes upstairs.

Permalink Mark Unread

...Might've. If you'd gotten me to start swearing things before I knew the chip enforced them.

Permalink Mark Unread

Cam is of course oblivious to the osanwë conversation.

Permalink Mark Unread

If I found a way to stop Melkor after we learned about the torture, and it involved you swearing something binding until you were dismissed, and then just not dismissing you -

 

And for Cam he writes 'he can probably still hear us.'

Permalink Mark Unread

Well. You're not my summoner any more.

Permalink Mark Unread

Getting Tyelcormo to promise me not to dismiss you without telling me, and then rendering it impossible for him to tell me, would be even easier. Please don't underestimate evil mes.

Permalink Mark Unread

Cam doesn't have anything to say. Or write, apparently.

Permalink Mark Unread

 

 

Noted.

Permalink Mark Unread

And he hugs Cam, rather fiercely.

Permalink Mark Unread

Cam leans hard into hug and slightly dampens Maitimo's shoulder.

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And once Elven hearing can't detect the other Maitimo's breathing anywhere, it's safe to whisper, quietly as breathing, "I think I can talk him around over enough time. If we decide that's too much time we can also kill him without getting my dads evicted."

Permalink Mark Unread

Nod.

Permalink Mark Unread

I'm concerned over what an evil you would have set up to happen to his country if he mysteriously disappeared.

Permalink Mark Unread

He murmurs this to Cam too so he's not left out. And his answer: Probably lots of terrible things. We'd have all the time in the world to figure them out, though.

Permalink Mark Unread

The door to outside opens. He blinks. "Did something else awful happen or is it the traumatized cousin -"

Permalink Mark Unread

"You met him? Did he tell you why he was traumatized?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Nah, haven't met him, haven't heard anything except what you told me last night."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Right, sorry. So, uh, it turns out that the reason his Maitimo had been keeping him captive was, uh. Not purely political."

Permalink Mark Unread

Blink.

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She replays the memory of not-evil Maitimo telling her why he was so angry.

Permalink Mark Unread

"Okay, so when time starts up again we conquer that place, too, should be really challenging, I hear they have spectacularly shiny swords."

Permalink Mark Unread

She snorts. "It's a country ruled by an Evil Maitimo and you think the military part's liable to be the hard part?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"They've got a population of under a million, right? We break the place up and distribute the people among all the dimensions ruled by nice Maitimos. Or, like, not ruled by Maitimos, I love you but I don't actually think you're the only way a society can be functional -"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Nor do I."

Permalink Mark Unread

"He uses oaths pretty damn casually. I am not convinced it's going to be that easy."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Wait, he's here?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"By 'uses' I mean 'coerces' not 'swears himself' but yes, we left a heavily-coerced-oathed Findekano unsupervised too long and he let him in."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Okay, how do we not make that mistake in the future -"

Permalink Mark Unread

"I knew what to do but felt like it'd look really bad and was accordingly a coward."

Permalink Mark Unread

"'what to do' being 'render him unable to swear anything new, render it physically impossible for him to make progress on any things he's sworn to do' - yeah, that does look kind of bad - why the fuck is there an evil you, is there an evil me."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I don't know and it seems callous to suggest 'because the landlords are fucking with us'! Also I'm trying to make friends with him so please don't mess that up."

Permalink Mark Unread

"With evil you? Does this involve, like, lying through your teeth about what you think of his life choices, or just going, like, 'you're my brother and I love you and that's why I am not going to let you pull this fucking bullshit' because I can probably do the latter, if it helps."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I'll let you know if I think there's an opening for that."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Do you think your evil alt psychicked it out that I'm dating--no, wouldn't have had to, I mentioned it to Findekano--kind of surprised it didn't come up."

Permalink Mark Unread

"He was extremely distressed the whole time because being around people who hate him is unpleasant - for me too, actually, and at least I can go 'well, they wrongly hate me' - if it's psychologically possible for you to stop hating him if he shapes up, and you think about that when he's around, that'll be a more useful form of leverage than death threats - he actually likes Cam best of any of us because he's way more comfortable around people he has a way to hurt - he's correspondingly more comfortable around me to the degree he thinks he can hurt me by hurting Cam - he's not going to try to get any information by directly asking us, he was also trying to suss out who he's comfortable having the Findekáno interact with -"

Permalink Mark Unread

"...lovely. To what extent does this require actually staying put and listening to him if he actually stomps that button and how much does it just require passively having it."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I think it's theoretically possible for me to stop hating him but I'm not confident yet that it would happen under any circumstance where whether or not I hated him was a meaningful concern."

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To Cam, "This doesn't require anything at all, I'm telling you what's in his head, I don't even have a fully mapped strategy for getting him to let his boyfriend go yet and it's not going to be one that depends on letting him hurt you -"

And to Edie, "that's fine, I don't think can stop hating him and I definitely don't expect it."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I can actually handle people bringing it up occasionally, I wasn't planning to try to enforce a zero tolerance policy."

Permalink Mark Unread

"The obvious situation in which I stop hating him is one in which he realizes the magnitude of what he's done and hates himself enough I don't see the point in bothering," she clarifies.

Permalink Mark Unread

"That's not gonna happen. It's okay, I'll find other currency." And to Cam, "Was today - stomping the button -"

Permalink Mark Unread

"No. It's just - extra annoying not to have all the moral high ground talking to a rapist."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I actually don't think he's going to press it past where he did today." Sigh. 

Permalink Mark Unread

"I'll live."

Permalink Mark Unread

"You don't have to interact with him at all, I will figure out a different way -"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Don't consider that a hard constraint or anything. I'm - irritable, not breakable."

Permalink Mark Unread

If that wasn't pushing the button I do not want to know what pushing the button does to you, he doesn't say. 

 

Instead he says. "so, I'm going to be trying to make friends with my evil rapist alt and probably challenge him to occasional games of Governor, it sounds like everyone else present will be varying degrees of a distraction from this goal on account of being bad at lying and hating my evil rapist alt, possible exception for Edie if he has a lovely progression on a redemption arc, possible exception for Tyelcormo if 'I love you and am going to strangle you with my bare hands' is a winning avenue, possible exception for Cam to the degree I can handle my evil rapist alt bothering Cam, I think this'll work but it might take years so if we instead want to just murder him we should do that now before he hurts Findekáno any further - oh, Tyelcormo, murderers get booted but not everyone from their dimension, so that's an option -"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Is it what the Findekáno wants -"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Don't know yet, haven't seen them together or seen him at all without a lot of oaths in the way."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Well, if you can't handle your evil alt bothering me and you personally dealing with this project is the high percentage strategy presumably I should avoid him, is there a prescribed way to do that?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"For the record, if we decide to kill him I can totally fork Ada and get the fork to do it, none of us here have to get kicked out."

Permalink Mark Unread

"This might count as orchestrating the murder? I don't want to count on it not counting, anyway. And I don't know that Cam should avoid him, I phrased it a little absurdly there and don't actually think my annoyance is the bottleneck on this working out, but if you do want to avoid him I doubt he's going to walk up to a daeva in a non-Security monitored area so you could mostly hang out in those. An alternative to you avoiding him might be 'we try to have a relationship that is visibly more tempting than having a traumatized slave' but I think I need more of a feel for what he even wants -"

Permalink Mark Unread

"I just had the most tragically hilarious mental image of you playing Governor with him, me seconding you and Findekáno seconding him."

Permalink Mark Unread

He laughs. It's a little hysterical. "I could play him Governor for stakes but I don't think 'I win the traumatized slave in a bet' is the win condition we're looking for, here - though I guess if it got all the oaths removed -

 

- hmm, wonder if it's too late for that -"

Permalink Mark Unread

"What would the other end of the stakes be?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Tech, obviously."

Permalink Mark Unread

"You think he'd take the bet - he could get the tech from Bar, it'd just take longer -"

Permalink Mark Unread

"I think he might take some electrical engineering lessons against one night with his boyfriend, if I played my cards right, where what'd really appeal to him would be levelling the moral high ground, and then I could get the oaths cleared - the problem with this being that all of you'd have to avoid me until I pulled it off, it would probably fuck with the Findekáno's head a lot, and a sufficiently well-worded 'swear to return him in the condition you got him' would be really hard to get around, not impossible with a bunch of people around who can overpower me but definitely really difficult - 

- actually, no, not difficult, just horrible -"

Permalink Mark Unread

"- we'd have to avoid you because?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"I suppose I could try to have it a secret that those were the stakes we'd settled on? It is implausible that you'd know and be okay with it. And he can read you all anyway."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Ah."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Well, it might end up being really convenient that you're not my summoner, then; I can render you unconscious all I like."

Permalink Mark Unread

"The way to get around an oath to return him in good condition is to kill the me who swore it and fork from right before that."

Permalink Mark Unread

Permalink Mark Unread

 

 

 

"Well, that doesn't make it less convenient that you're not my summoner."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I did say it was horrible."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Why can't I just knock you out until it's over?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Are there options that don't involve killing you."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Oh, knocking me out works if he's kind enough to make it time-limited, but I bet he's better at oaths than me, I don't think I can actually think around him there. And you're still going to need a me to talk the Findekáno into consenting to oath-clearing - and oath-clearing might not work - there might be options, let's think of one -"

Permalink Mark Unread

"I rather doubt I can talk him into anything..."

Permalink Mark Unread

 

 

 

"Figure out how to use the reader to translate chips into accessible information, chip Evil Maitimo if possible, kill him and take the chip out, fork you and have the fork pretend to be him long enough to release him from all the oaths he can?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Has a lot more moving parts. I don't have native osanwë, I bet me addressing him sounds different to Findekáno than the evil one addressing him."

Permalink Mark Unread

 

"Find out how much personal discretion the security on staff has, wait Nechar out, get somebody new or the vigilante with a thing about rape?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Could she clear the oaths - killing him really doesn't do much for us without a way to clear the oaths -"

Permalink Mark Unread

"No, she couldn't do that, I was just thinking that if your alt was locked up or chucked out we'd have more freedom to operate..."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Yeah, true, a lot more - probably worth it, doesn't take very long to try - Bar, can Security decide to put someone in the holding cells for a while based on activity that's not technically rulebreaking, such as only raping people upstairs -"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Given that security is guaranteed to be able to handle us I don't think we're going to get the anti-rape vigilante while we're considering prohibited anti-rape vigilanteism."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I think it works on 'guaranteed to take us in a fight' not 'landlords are precogs and will put people in Security who would cause there to be less of a fight'."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Yeah, but, like, there's kinds and kinds of able. I don't think I'd be psychologically capable of stopping someone who was beating up a Nazi."

Permalink Mark Unread

 

"...fair enough."

Permalink Mark Unread

The guidelines are in fact designed to make it difficult to get people arrested if you cannot provoke them into genuine violations of Milliways rules. That said, Security has some discretion around what degree of approach to outright rulebreaking they will tolerate.

Permalink Mark Unread

"...okay, what about next time he comes down for meals following him up the stairs, knocking him unconscious, and taking him to one of our rooms and locking him in there, which is safe to do for up to a week, during which time probably the Findekáno comes down and we can deal with him with his - with evil Maitimo temporarily out of the way -"

Permalink Mark Unread

"We're assuming a week subjective locked up for your alt isn't thirty seconds for Findekáno because...?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Because why would the landlords fuck with us like that.

 

 

Right."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I think at that point we kinda have to kidnap him against his will because he literally can't let us and then the nice sorcerer is faced with someone doing a very good impression of a person who doesn't want their oaths messed with."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Yep. Thus the 'win him in a bet' approach, or the much slower 'figure out what the fuck is up with my evil alt, make him stop' approach."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Well, this is, again, slower only insofar as time is consistent - although I suppose it requires lots of his subjective time and he'll be going back up to Findekáno's room periodically, but we can't know that while Findekáno's alone up there it isn't giving him a week off -"

Permalink Mark Unread

"I hope not, he'd starve."

Permalink Mark Unread

"If you're in the backyard talking to your alt Findekáno can go down to Bar for food and up again a hundred times unless he's got a contingency order specifically about not going too long without checking in or something."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Can probably check in over osanwë. Not sure if my alt knows yet how the time subjectivity works, did anyone explain it to Findekáno?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"I don't think it came up."

Permalink Mark Unread

"So it'd be nice to delay their learning that, and it's absolutely critical to prevent them from realizing that you can not only resurrect chip Elves but you can also fork them from arbitrary points in time."

Permalink Mark Unread

"They could have picked it up from Bar in the time we weren't here and your alt came in, if he'd have gotten a rundown of the place from her..."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Notes from Bar to my evil alt?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"She can do a thing with salt for secure messages Findekáno knew about but -" Napkins?

Permalink Mark Unread

Just the ones from this morning when he inquired about security.

Permalink Mark Unread

"So if they talked it was securely but maybe he skipped it."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Okay.

 

 

I don't think I can get anywhere on bringing him around or even on settling him down for some games while killing him is still on the table. I think we need to decide soon which approach we want to commit to, if I'm going to have enough trust to do things like go outside with him."

Permalink Mark Unread

"What would we actually do with Findekáno if your alt were dead. Supposing pessimistically that the sorcerer can't clear the oaths."

Permalink Mark Unread

"...leave him alone for subjectively a few decades and hope he bounces back? Or fork an instance of mine who can try to help him out - or if anyone knows a really good therapist - if we can't do anything about the oaths then maybe he's better off with my alt alive, what if my alt would want him to kill himself or avenge him or both -"

Permalink Mark Unread

"...I'm not certain I can decide to not kill him no matter what."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Can you get to 'given the unknown situation on his side of the door and what we know of the preferences of his Findekáno, killing him serves no one who actually deserves a say in this, and if once we've gotten Findekáno's oaths cleared he wants him dead we will give him a gun but until then or until we get substantial new information, it's not helpful and not happening?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"I can do, 'I won't kill him unless given a really good reason I don't currently have,' yeah."

Permalink Mark Unread

"It sounded like he may have recently revised the standard orders - I should have bugged him -"

Permalink Mark Unread

"...yeah, that'd have been useful. Next time."

Permalink Mark Unread

Nod. "Won't tell us what's already been said though."

Permalink Mark Unread

"If I were him - no telling us oaths or orders or bringing it about that we know of them except by following through on them, no helping us circumvent oaths or orders, the next time he sees us commit to overwrite his head if the Maitimo's kidnapped or killed -"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Should we worry that even if us demonic types react instantly on hearing the word 'swear' it'll be phrased with that last or something?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Are you even allowed to do that in the bar -"

Permalink Mark Unread

Applying drugs to another patron's person does constitute violence.

Permalink Mark Unread

"Caramel?"

Permalink Mark Unread

Gray area, Security discretion, not an expulsion offense for the first case.

Permalink Mark Unread

"We can make ourselves all deaf."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Have to do it obviously."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Giant rocket-launch-muffling headphones? I should - 'negotiate' with my alt, say that I can swear to him that barring a lot of new information I will ensure he's safe if he just promises not to make the Findekáno swear anything new..."

Permalink Mark Unread

"- I'd want to know what the baseline is before assigning that promise too much value."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Yeah. But the baseline when he came down here last was that Edie was very very tempted."

Permalink Mark Unread

"What I mean is that if he's sworn to do his best guess of what your alt wants, or anything like that, this can and has covered swearing new things without any occurrent intervention at all."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Right. He - I wish we'd known how long it'd been for them, some of these things I'd expect to take time to coerce out of him but perhaps a lot less of it after centuries of being subjected to this -"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Bar had to ask how he wanted to pay and I got my money minus Findekáno's dinner from before back off the tab so your alt has been here long enough to get hungry once and not longer."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I guess that's something."

Permalink Mark Unread

"That's something."

He collapses onto Cam with an exhausted whimper. "I hate him. I hate him and I very profoundly wish that I'd reacted properly."

Permalink Mark Unread

Cam wraps Maitimo up in his wings.

Permalink Mark Unread

And eventually someone comes down. "Hey!" he says to Bar. And then, "hey!" to Tyelcormo.

Permalink Mark Unread

"Hi, uh, is it true -"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Yep."

Permalink Mark Unread

"What the fuck, do you not care about any of us -"

Permalink Mark Unread

"My versions don't take issue."

Permalink Mark Unread

"And if you cared about them that would bother you and you would not go 'oh, convenient'."

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"Tyelcormo -"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Yeah, yeah, taking a hike." He makes a rather exaggerated show of needing Huan's support to stand up, says to Evil Maitimo, "nice meeting you," and leaves.

Permalink Mark Unread

"Bar, may I have lunch and something that'll keep for dinner?"

Permalink Mark Unread

He may. Tray of chicken and dumplings with elaborate little side salads and lemon souffles for lunch, something tucked in a picnic basket for dinner.

Permalink Mark Unread

"Thank you."

Permalink Mark Unread

You're welcome.

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And when he goes up there will be a little audio pickup tucked inside a hem of a garment, which, unless he's in the habit of leaving his clothes in the hallway when he does horrifying things that involve them being off, will send everything to Cam's computer.

Permalink Mark Unread

"Can you also recommend me some science textbooks?"

Permalink Mark Unread

You will need to be a little more specific.

Permalink Mark Unread

"Introductory chemistry textbook from one of the alternate Ardas?"

Permalink Mark Unread

Here's one.

Permalink Mark Unread

"Thank you! Is there a good way to repay you, aside from going and holding the door so someone can bring the treasury - do you like compliments on the cooking - it's excellent cooking."

Permalink Mark Unread

You're too kind. I find my job very rewarding in itself.

Permalink Mark Unread

And he picks up the plates and heads back upstairs.

Permalink Mark Unread

And Cam watches to see if a transcription from his bug is incoming.

Permalink Mark Unread

"Lunch and dinner! I swear that I don't have any discontinuities in my memory and haven't sworn anything since we last spoke."

"Why not ask for a month's worth, your majesty? I swear that I don't have any discontinuities in my memory and haven't sworn anything since we last spoke."

"Because if we stay in the room all the time we will go insane and as long as I'm coming down regularly for meals there's no spur for them to act on assassinating me, no sense of 'if I don't act now, when?'. If I ask for a book-thing for your computer with all the textbooks we need, and a year's supply of food, I'm not sure I come back at all."

[sound of kissing].

"Chemistry textbook, my lord?"

"Seemed like a place to start. If you want to go down and get a computer book-thing and a year's supply of food, I am not sure you'll make it back but I am pretty sure they've explored and exhausted their means of actually hurting you for your own good."

"Save convincing you."

"Not sure if they've come around to trying that, yet. The me should at least have thought of it."

"But you still think I might not make it back."

"I am at this point confident they wouldn't hurt you, confident they wouldn't leave the me alone with you if you don't want that, fairly confident that if you just keep repeating 'I swear I am not under any oaths that have altered what I want or would prevent me from representing it to you accurately, and this isn't what I want, please let me go' then they'll give in within a subjective day or so -"

"Charming."

"Better than even odds you come back here without problems, but if there are problems, they won't survive the collapse of the pretense that they're your saviors."

"If the you wants me rescued - we should come up with nicknames -"

"I have considered it and decided that I am Midnight and you are Forever and the other me is Iscariot."

"...do I get to actually call you this, your grace."

"...you may use it when referring to me."

"My lord is generous."

"I still feel tremendously guilty over letting this happen to you, you could probably push that a fair bit farther."

"Why would I want to do that?"

[sound of kissing]

[indistinct conversation over food]

"Not enjoying it?"

"It's very good."

"Findekáno."

"...speak freely?"

"Yes."

"I hate it when you leave, hate wondering if you're going to come back or if I'm eventually going to get too hungry to hide up here any longer or if that'll come too late when I already can't manage the stairs, and I hate wondering if I'm going to open the door to one of them, having followed you or figured it out with their magic, or if it'll be you but not at all, and a whole new set of rules to learn, but also I keep hoping it'll be who I thought they were, uncomplicated good people who don't even know how to play these games - he was so horrified, Maitimo, so horrified, he'd just met me and didn't particularly care for the other mes and it didn't matter, all he wanted was to make sure I was safe -"

"And if he'd been real, and you opened the door to him -"

"I'd trust he hadn't killed you, and I'd explain that he couldn't, but that now that the oaths were sorted he could walk you out that door without me in pieces trying to figure out what you'd want me to be doing, and then he'd probably have a solution in mind already but if not we'd. Talk about one. And he'd still be horrified after I'd explained every justification you'd ever given me - and I'd explain them all, just to make sure he knew what he was interfering in - and then I could. Exist a while. Without performing for anybody. Figure out what to do. You probably wouldn't like it when I came back to you, I'd be happier but I'd be a lot more effort and I know you can't spare the effort - I wish I'd held out longer on going to fetch you, maybe this Maitimo'd have summoned the nerve or whatever he lacked that made him hesitate to stop me - I think he was trying to impress his boyfriend, and locking me up would not have impressed him - I am so glad I'm out from under that oath but I don't want you here, I'd started thinking of here as a place without you and now it feels so much smaller - was thinking I could take breaks as long as I needed and then come back to you - I know it wasn't realistic - I promise I didn't even consider cheating, it wasn't - I want a place where you can't touch me, and the one I have is 'standing in the middle of the Bar and loudly declaring I don't want you should do it temporarily' and that's - that's worse - I don't want you to miss me - the time stop seemed like a solution, and the war'd be over, and I would need to be at my best for the post -war...and you feel guilty - why over this, you've hurt me worse than this -"

"You have leave to stop speaking freely."

 

 

"Thank you, my lord."

"I don't feel guilty over hurting you on purpose, I feel horribly guilty if I do it by accident."

"Thank you, my lord."

"If you're hungry enough to even be vaguely worried you can't manage the stairs, go get food, and if you're hungry enough you can't do that, osanwë someone and ask for help and give them whatever information they need."

"Thank you, my lord."

"I'm not angry."

Laughter. "I try not to have thoughts that inspire you to anger."

"You're not doing very well but I'm still not angry. What a mess. Of course you jumped to everyone being like you and everything being perfect."

"Yes, my lord."

"I'm not being fair?"

A demurring sort of sound.

"Am I not?"

"I cannot think of a response to that which does you appropriate honor."

Laughter. "I missed you," he says breathlessly. "Even if time was stopped and logically I can't have been."

"Perhaps souls don't move with local time."

 

And then a long silence, interrupted intermittently by laughter. 

 

Permalink Mark Unread

 

He holds it so they can see.

Permalink Mark Unread

"I can't parse from text the degree to which his prisoner is being agreeable because it'll be easier that way and the degree to which he's being agreeable because he doesn't have enough information to disagree..."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I've got the audio." He plays it.

Permalink Mark Unread

"Helps, but not perfectly, - it is, after all, an act tailored to a me -"

Permalink Mark Unread

"I knew I was flinging my ability to claim I was an uncomplicatedly good person into a black hole but I didn't know I was going to need it for anything, it never really came up before."

Permalink Mark Unread

"He'd just have found a different angle, he's evil."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Maybe, yeah. - We need a workaround for impersonation, ideally less cumbersome than 'write something, conjure latest written work of non-evil Maitimo'."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Yeah. Ideas?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Nothing I'm sure would work if he charms Nechar into copying it..."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I wish I knew if we come across the same over osanwë - not that that'd help you -"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Yeah. Well, write-and-conjure works as long as you aren't trying to identify yourself to someone without a demon around. Maybe Bar will distinguish you on request? Bar?"

Permalink Mark Unread

I will be happy to confirm the world of origin of anyone who asks.

Permalink Mark Unread

"Do you have names for the different worlds built in somehow? What's the world of origin of the evil me called?"

Permalink Mark Unread

I do not have names for them.

Permalink Mark Unread

"Has someone warned all the engineering teams - someone should warn all the engineering teams -"

Permalink Mark Unread

"He'd have to know where they were but yeah -" Don't currently have a better way to distinguish between Maitimos than demons or Bar and his alt is evil, exercise corresponding caution. Ping me for remote checks if needed.

Permalink Mark Unread

He makes a strangled noise and buries his head in his hands. "The Findekáno's right, I could have prevented all of this -"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Were you actually trying to impress me, I would have understood, oaths are fucked up -"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Not - impress you, but definitely not react the way I'd react if I were a rapist and trying to cover for it, and 'don't let him speak, don't let him move' felt -"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Not letting him speak holds up better when he's generically telepathic but yeah..."

Permalink Mark Unread

"...didn't think about that at all, that would have made me feel better about it..."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I didn't think through all the implications enough either."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Do exactly what someone would want you to do' is incredibly dangerous, it's honestly lucky we found out anything about the situation before he realized my evil alt wouldn't want him sharing."

Permalink Mark Unread

Nod.

Permalink Mark Unread

"You are uncomplicatedly a good person."

Permalink Mark Unread

"That's not what 'uncomplicatedly' means."

Permalink Mark Unread

"And at this point we have to ask ourselves do we respect Findekano's preferences, because if we do then Evil Maitimo psychics it off us and maybe forces Findekano to say he wants things he doesn't want or maybe he alters what Findekano wants and he cannot be allowed to have that as a tactic to use against us but on the other hand if we're doing this on Findekano's behalf it is pretty shitty to not care what he actually wants..."

Permalink Mark Unread

"We could get a not-fucked-up version and ask him what he'd want under the circumstances."

Permalink Mark Unread

"It might meaningfully change even relative to our sensibilities about what he 'really' wants after centuries of oaths and conditioning and trauma."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Getting a Findekano probably means forking one without their consent but might be the best option we have anyway."

Permalink Mark Unread

"If my alt succeeded through centuries of oaths and conditioning in getting him to really want to be his slave, I don't think I do respect that preference."

Permalink Mark Unread

"That's not what I meant, but there might be details even another Findekáno can't predict."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Yeah."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I feel like Edie should be osanwëing Findekáno sometime when 'Midnight' is down here for food and thus accounted for but I don't know what you should say..."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Neither do I. Especially considering that practically speaking, we have one shot at this because he's going to have to tell him..."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I am just guessing, even if I saw his face I wouldn't be sure, he has a lot of reasons to have figured out how to lie to me specifically. But if he's not currently under motive-distorting oaths I think he's going with some model like "I am going to have to deal with him at some point; even a century of borrowed time in the meantime isn't worth it if it means he will be angry and feel betrayed and therefore tighten the leash when I come back, the best thing to do is to be very apologetic about having inconvenienced him by telling these other people about what was going on and to take advantage of his temporary reluctance to tighten the leash right now when it'll anger these powerful people we're living with"."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I'm reading a lot of - discomfort with uncertainty - which should accordingly discount any plans that involve visible-to-Findekáno risk-taking insofar as we can afford to care about frightening him -"

Permalink Mark Unread

"I wonder if it would be useful to have interactions with other patrons in front of him that involve demonstrating that yes, rape is A Bad Thing and most of the multiverse knows this that don't involve bringing him up as an example so he has room to not see it as an attack..."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Is he confused about whether he is being wronged or just about whether we have a plan to change it that doesn't make everything worse..."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I'd think the latter but it's hard to be sure."

Permalink Mark Unread

"It was not obvious to him that it'd be to Midnight's disadvantage to have it widely known - I also think the latter, but not with exceptional confidence - we don't have a way to stop him from talking to Midnight, so we can't just tell him things we're planning -"

Permalink Mark Unread

"...Maybe if we told him we could tell him the things we were planning but only on a releasable oath not to tell Evil Maitimo? Since Evil Maitimo doesn't get the information either way he should probably be able to swear that?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Don't want to do that if we don't have him in our hands, if the oaths do contradict somehow -"

Permalink Mark Unread

"I don't think I know enough about oaths to know why it should work like that at all...?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Yeah. Ugh. And we'd be trusting that Evil Maitimo couldn't psychic it out of him anyway..."

Permalink Mark Unread

"The general principle with oaths is that if you swear two that are both demanding different actions in the same moment you're fucked, never ever do that, I suppose now that retrieving an earlier fork is an option we can carefully test what actually happens if there were a really good reason but it'd have to be an excellent reason. 

Things like closing one of several avenues to do something are thus incredibly risky - if I swear to be outside in an hour, and then swear not to walk there, I will be fine right now because I can also crawl there or ask to be carried or something, but if it gets close to the designated time and there's no one to carry me and a barrier to crawling, ouch, contradiction. 

Things like failing to open new avenues to do something are less risky - if I swear to be outside, and then swear not to fly there, I'm fine even if non-flying means of getting outside are inaccessible, because I can't fly. If I swear to be outside and then swear not to use your teleportation magic to get there, and then get your teleportation magic, I technically think that parses as permissible but who the fuck would ever test that, you'd have to be insane."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Let's maybe not try things that involve telling Findekáno things we don't want Midnight to know, then..."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Yep."

Permalink Mark Unread

"So our options are 'completely disregard what he says he wants,' 'ask him what he wants and hope it's what he in fact wants and would want if all of his oaths were removed right now,' or 'bring in another Findekano and let him guess,' as far as I can tell."

Permalink Mark Unread

"And we have somewhat limited options even if we had perfect divinatory knowledge of what he wanted."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Sounds about right."

Permalink Mark Unread

 

Anything new coming in on the transcript?

Permalink Mark Unread

They're working through exercises in the chemistry textbook.

Permalink Mark Unread

 

"I fucking hate opponents who must be presumed to have no scruples and lots of game theory. I'm not confident we can safely improve on 'befriend Evil Maitimo, attempt reform' if that is actually a viable option at all."

Permalink Mark Unread

 

 

"Think it is. We have things he wants."

Permalink Mark Unread

Sigh.

Permalink Mark Unread

"And I will never make that mistake again and that doesn't make any of the damage I did by making it this time correctable."

Permalink Mark Unread

Wingsnugs.

Permalink Mark Unread

Yeah.

Permalink Mark Unread

"What are they?"

"Stars collapsing. Isn't it lovely?"

"It's a very nice room. Thoughtful of Bar."

"And of Cam, he made a point of finding a way it could be a secret from him... I don't think he was pretending, either -"

"By far the most thoughtful person ever to destroy Valinor as a favor to the Enemy, I'm sure."

 

 

"Yeah."

"There's a lovely shower, go take a shower before bed."

"He asked me if we'd invented indoor plumbing yet. After I said we didn't have electricity." Laughter. "...you joining me -"

"No." 

 

"Okay. Couple - couple minutes -"

Permalink Mark Unread

Permalink Mark Unread

"Do you want to just send it to my computer or something."

Permalink Mark Unread

 


"Okay."

He redirects the transcript.

Permalink Mark Unread

"I'm sorry."

Permalink Mark Unread

"It's not your fault and I stopped judging you based on your alts awhile ago."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Yes and you are clearly in pain and I wish that wasn't the case no matter how minimal my culpability - it is a good thing we can't actually find them, even if befriending him is the best approach I don't think I could do it -"

Permalink Mark Unread

"I've been waffling on whether it was a good idea in retrospect to do the secret room thing..."

Permalink Mark Unread

"How many possible room numbers are there once you've got the floor narrowed down, a thousand -"

Permalink Mark Unread

"In cataloguing the shifty properties of my room's location I have observed rooms with up to seventeen digits."

Permalink Mark Unread

He turns off his computer and makes an anguished noise. 

Permalink Mark Unread

"We could assume Bar gives people lower numbers preferentially based on what we got, but we could also assume that if the occupants don't want to be found it'll be six miles of maze to find a specific number if you can locate it at all."

Permalink Mark Unread

Permalink Mark Unread

Permalink Mark Unread

 

 

 

 

After a while he starts singing.

Permalink Mark Unread

"This is horribly depressing and I don't think we can meaningfully progress on it right now and I'm going to go find and hug my boyfriend."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Seems reasonable." Cam's boyfriend is right here to be leaned on and wing-wrapped and listened to singing.

Permalink Mark Unread

And Edie's boyfriend is outside leaning against a tree skipping rocks.

Permalink Mark Unread

"Hi. That sucked in a wide variety of different ways."

Permalink Mark Unread

"What happened after I left?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Well, Cam bugged him, and then he went back upstairs and the transcripts were kind of horrible."

Permalink Mark Unread

"...in, like, the obvious way, or -"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Less with the explicit more with the horribly manipulative."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Guess it is a Maitimo. Why the fuck -

 

like, even if ours were evil, I can't see him toying with his prisoners, that's not even challenging -"

Permalink Mark Unread

"...I didn't get the impression he was doing that to any other prisoners..."

Permalink Mark Unread

"So he just. Has a thing for our cousin. That's weird."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I wouldn't know, I don't have any."

Permalink Mark Unread

"It's not really the most important thing about the situation, but." He tosses another rock into the lake. "Remind me why we didn't just kill him -"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Findekano might have had horrific contingency orders on that and his country might be set up to fall apart without him."

Permalink Mark Unread

"What a mess."

Permalink Mark Unread

"No kidding."

Permalink Mark Unread

Hug?

Permalink Mark Unread

Hug.

"Remember when we started this and I said I was liable to fall in love with you? That happened a little while back. I wanted to wait for--something special--to tell you, but I couldn't think of anything, and right now I need to be able to say it..."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Love you. Sorry things are - less than gloriously romantic."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I'll live. And we aren't obliged to think about this problem 24/7. We can make time for ourselves."

Permalink Mark Unread

"We should, we'll go nuts otherwise - so will Maitimo and Cam but that one might be again above my pay grade -"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Yeah. I mean, it would probably be worse if they didn't have each other, I'm really glad I talked Maitimo into talking about his feelings like a grownup."

Permalink Mark Unread

"You did him a really big favor. Imagine if he hadn't said anything and then all of this had happened, I'm pretty sure Cam'd want nothing to do with him."

Permalink Mark Unread

 

 

 

"Yay impromptu relationship therapist Edie."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Our Maitimo used to export that kind of stuff to our cousin Findekáno, who's a bit more - possessed of common sense than him. I am glad he had you."

Permalink Mark Unread

"We were talking about forking in a Findekano to figure out what the hell would actually be best for the traumatized one."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Cam doesn't want to?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"We haven't decided if it's a good idea yet. And then both Cam and Maitimo got super depressed in an unproductive way and were snuggling so I was like, 'okay I don't think we're getting anything done now I'm going to go seek emotional support in the arms of my boyfriend.'"

Permalink Mark Unread

Hug. "Well, I'm not even going to try to snap them out of it for a week or so, then maybe it's time to try conspiring for the evil one to get eaten by the giant squid in a hilarious and unproductive-depression relieving way even if it creates a lot of work for us afterwards."

Permalink Mark Unread

"That is an excellent mental image and I may write fanfic of it but I don't think it's probably workable."

Permalink Mark Unread

"We can make a cartoon, there's this excellent suite of animating software you can pirate for me."

Permalink Mark Unread

"If we're going to be pirating stuff I should make a list so we can compensate people when we get out of here but yes, let's do that."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Maybe we can compensate them with stuff from Bar, since you can buy stuff from Bar with counterfeit currency. Anyway, the software's Vala Creative, third edition, if we've got enough footage of evil Maitimo we'll barely have to do anything - wonder if the squid'll consent to guest star..."

Permalink Mark Unread

"You could ask!"

Permalink Mark Unread

So he leans over and inquires of the giant squid whether it would be interested in guest starring in a movie in which it eats this rapist who got let into Milliways somehow.

Permalink Mark Unread

That sounds diverting, although it would like to disclaim any interest in actually eating people.

Permalink Mark Unread

"Yeah, we've decided not to kill him. Just a movie. Thanks."

Permalink Mark Unread

"We should probably include a disclaimer to that effect in the movie itself. ...And not release it to general audiences, given that Evil Maitimo looks like not-evil Maitimo...although it might be hard to keep Hell from getting their hands on it..."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Evil Maitimo can't possibly be expecting me to pretend I like him or possibly be worrying I'll stop caring about him just because he is evil. So I'm not too worried about him seeing it. But yeah, wasn't planning to publish it anywhere."

Permalink Mark Unread

 

 

"I mean, you're advocating killing him, I think most people would interpret that as you not caring about him."

Permalink Mark Unread

"He's hurting someone. We don't have a way to get him to stop. Or am I missing something?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"It might or might not be possible to get him to stop some other way. Take longer, but it might be doable."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I hope it works. How much longer -"

Permalink Mark Unread

"I don't know. It depends on a lot of things."

Permalink Mark Unread

 

"Okay." And to work figuring out the animation program.

Permalink Mark Unread

 

 

"Well," Cam observes, when there's a lull in the singing, "this has been productive, hasn't it."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Were we doing anything before -"

Permalink Mark Unread

"We were checking to see if there's observable differences in chips before and after the doom curse thing. But that's hardly time-sensitive. Are we just going to have depressed snuggling time every occasion we try to address our current project, that seems like it could maybe be improved on somehow..."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I could self-modify to not be upset about it more than I'm already going to need to in order to make friends with him, but I find this vaguely unappealing."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Yeah, I mean, I don't want to find it not upsetting, I'd like to find it - usefully upsetting?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"The not-traumatized Findekáno is a workaholic when he's upset, it's - useful in that no one can try to play mind games with him, I don't know if it's healthy - probably healthier than this...I also do better with time constraints, can't let myself spiral because there are things that wouldn't get done..."

Permalink Mark Unread

"There are sort of time constraints in the sense that we don't know how long we'll have to wait until he comes back for breakfast again and it could be anywhere from no time at all to lots."

Permalink Mark Unread

He turns on his computer for the transcripts again. "They won't be stuck keeping time with us for as long as we're bugging them?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"I'm not sure. Maybe, or maybe only while it has data to send - might skip through them sleeping or something -"

Permalink Mark Unread

And then he relaxes considerably. "Okay."

Permalink Mark Unread

"- why's that comforting?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Not that, this -" And he turns the computer -

Permalink Mark Unread

"Perhaps," Findekáno says, "there's a sense in which we actually haven't invented indoor plumbing; theirs is better."

"I don't think we'll find any textbooks on how to make Milliways, it's not like electricity." Sigh. "I'm pretty sure the other Ardas don't have magic."

"Should I -"

"Refrain from telling them about it or bringing it about that they know of it, and if you learn that they do, tell me. Don't do any in front of them. Don't answer questions or direct them to sources for answers on its capabilities. Default to not telling them things, unless you want those things weaponized against everyone you care about -"

"Yes, your majesty."

"Night. I will wake you before I leave for breakfast."

"..."

"Tell me good night."

"Good night, my lord." Pause. "Are you angry with me -"

"No."

"It would be understandable to be angry with me, I shared information that's caused you a lot of trouble and I keep having disloyal thoughts about it -"

"It would be very understandable but I'm not angry. Go to sleep."

 

 

 

"If this is a kindness to me," Findekáno says after a minute, "it - isn't, not unexplained - did you swear to them you wouldn't -"

"No. Might need to swear I haven't, they were really upset by that in particular. I was not under the impression I was doing you a favor. Good night."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Ah."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Bugging him was a good idea - can Bar sell magic items -"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Nope. Medium-sized nonmagical nonweapon nonliving things."

Permalink Mark Unread

"There are no references to people using it to run around invisible or do mind-control or anything, so it's probably not a risk.

 

And he has decided to try to work with us, or at least to leave that open. That's good."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Yeah. And he hasn't guessed he might be bugged. ...Bar are you going to tell him."

Permalink Mark Unread

No.

Permalink Mark Unread

"Thank you.

 

Does suggest that doing right by Findekáno's going to be complicated, though."

Permalink Mark Unread

"The 'not a favor to him' thing?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Yep. And I think your read is right, hates uncertainty."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Great, I love being right."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Should I not have shown you - or have redacted the hurtful bit -"

Permalink Mark Unread

"No, I'd rather see - and I'm still getting copies anyway."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Thought you might not look at them, if there was someone else on it and it's just going to upset you."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I'll probably still read them all, just pick and choose my timing a little more carefully."

Permalink Mark Unread

"That works. I'm going to get back to work on checking whether the Doom was real, I guess, that was an interesting project."

Permalink Mark Unread

"If the bug doesn't time-sync and he comes down what should I say, anything?"

Permalink Mark Unread

 

"Uh, depends. Probably nothing."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Okay."

Permalink Mark Unread

Kiss and upstairs. To check whether a machine learning algorithm can sort Doomed and non-Doomed people, to start with, and then go from there.

Permalink Mark Unread

Cam gets recommendations on books from the new Arda about magic but conjures them up in computerized form rather than have a stack of them sitting incriminatingly nearby.

Permalink Mark Unread

Magic: comes in music, which can get dramatic effects very fast if you're good, and artifact, which takes years to design and months to create. The process the way the Elves do it requires native telepathy, though apparently Dwarves do without. This world's Silmarils are magic; you can't kill a Balrog without magic weapons, and even with them it's suicide; the major Elven cities have enchanted walls to slow down enemies.

Permalink Mark Unread

Maybe he can learn to do the music kind. Do they have sheet music? He can learn to read their sheet music and write something that will translate the one kind into the other...

Permalink Mark Unread

They have sheet music. The notation is fairly straightforward.

Permalink Mark Unread

Cool. He can kill a while writing a nice notation conversion program.

Permalink Mark Unread

And eventually he'll come downstairs. "Morning," he says to Cam and to Bar, and then, "breakfast for two again? And lunch, if it's convenient?"

Permalink Mark Unread

Cream of wheat loaded with berries! Bran muffins! Mystery picnic basket.

Permalink Mark Unread

Cam doesn't say anything.

Permalink Mark Unread

"Findekáno spoke very highly of you," he says, "and it would probably be psychologically healthy for him to interact with people who aren't me - are you going to be down here all day? Is that even a meaningful question, is time consistently inconsistent in some pattern we haven't noticed yet -"

Permalink Mark Unread

 

"If he wants to find me he can send me a computer message."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Thanks! I'll tell him." And back upstairs.

Permalink Mark Unread

Cam sends the contents of this eventuality to his Maitimo.

Permalink Mark Unread

Huh, okay.  - computer can reliably tell Doomed and non-Doomed people apart, but it's not picking up on, like, a convenient Doom block of code in our heads, and it could be a false positive, there are some famous mistakes in this field that come from assuming the thing you're looking for is the only difference - might just be noticing people feeling upset -

Permalink Mark Unread

Try the kids?

Permalink Mark Unread

It hasn't made any mistakes yet in classifying, including kids.

Permalink Mark Unread

They'd be less likely to know what was going on, but I suppose they could've picked up the ambient mood, even the under-threes have chips there and I don't know how much people let stray emotions fly around...

Permalink Mark Unread

Do you know how the Doom was delivered, was it announced at the instant it was - put in place, if it was -

Permalink Mark Unread

The impression I got was that announcing it constituted placing it but I'm not certain.

Permalink Mark Unread

Thanks. Might ask you for more samples at some point.

Permalink Mark Unread

I still think it's probably a good idea to keep an eye on the main bar, so you might have to come get 'em if Edie and Tyelcormo don't come in.

Permalink Mark Unread

Will do.

Permalink Mark Unread

Magic's interesting. Haven't tried any yet, I'm writing a notation translator for the sheet music.

Permalink Mark Unread

What does it do?

 

I am guessing it doesn't do resurrection? Though if this Mandos can bring back dead unchipped Elves, maybe we could ask him or copy what he's doing...

Permalink Mark Unread

It doesn't do resurrection that I've found. It'll, like, grow crops and do illusions and stuff. I'm assuming their Mandos works like Singularity Mandos rather than like your one and just sort of magically holds all the information and stuffs it in bodies; whether that's in principle doable with magic music I don't know.

Permalink Mark Unread

Well, crops and illusions are fun - do recordings work -

Permalink Mark Unread

They don't know, obviously, they don't have electricity. If I can get any of it to work when I get that far I'll try a recording after that.

Permalink Mark Unread

Good skill!

Permalink Mark Unread

Thanks!

Permalink Mark Unread

He comes down a while later for lunch and more chip requests. "Um. You said summoning started working when the Valar died, it occurred to me that if the Doom stopped working -"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Oh, good thinking." Another batch of before and afters.

Permalink Mark Unread

"Thanks." Kiss. "No word from the Findekáno?..."

Permalink Mark Unread

Kiss. "Not yet."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Which doesn't mean anything at all, I suppose. I can start the computer reading and then come back downstairs, minds are big, it'll be at work a couple hours..."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Sounds like a plan."

Permalink Mark Unread

So he does that, and then comes downstairs, and is weirded out that the notation for music is very close to his world's.

Permalink Mark Unread

"I think the Quenya is also Quenya, since it looks like that and not English to me even in the translation effect."

Permalink Mark Unread

"You'd think there'd be linguistic drift - they didn't have writing until 1250 - enough of their history parallels ours - except writ small, with swords, and everyone is a terrible person - for it to be anything less than some force keeping history on the rails..."

Permalink Mark Unread

"The Quenya's not identical, but it's definitely mutually intelligible, yeah. Your world's really the odd one out - the other two you can go 'oh, it's the magic god Valar doing magic god things' -"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Like making sure the Darkening happens in 1495 regardless of anything else? I thought it came as a surprise to the Valar, too? - wait, how did the Darkening even happen in primitive Arda - if Valinor and Endorë are on the same planet -"

Permalink Mark Unread

"I didn't look that up yet..." Investigations. "...magic glowing trees. That's. Stupid. And implies that Endorë was just sort of dark all the time?"

Permalink Mark Unread

 

"...that can't be right, how would there be an ecosystem, how would it support a population - more magic? Glowing trees?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"More magic, I guess. Lots of it. I was going to propose calling it 'Mirror' as a superficially neutral sounding reference to how it's evil but it's increasingly tempting to look for a name that addresses how dumb it is."

Permalink Mark Unread

"How's it - lit - now, if it didn't have a sun -"

Permalink Mark Unread

Cam looks...

"It has a sun now. The Valar installed one. And a moon. The moon was first."

Permalink Mark Unread

"...is their eyesight better than ours, because I couldn't see Araman in the sky once the suns went out..."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Maybe? The moon is described as a light in the sky though..."

Permalink Mark Unread

"A light in the sky before their Sun was up?...also, they know their Valar can make stars and they're fighting him with swords..."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Maybe it's less obvious that these are completely disparate implied ability levels if you don't know what the fuck a star is?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"...right, yeah, probably. ...biological weapons deployed in this war, yet?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Not obviously... but the prion disease I ran into on Singularity Endorë just looked like 'poisoned water' to the locals..."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Charming. And two hundred eighty years in the other Valar still haven't done anything. Not that that directly translates to the implication Singularity's set wouldn't have, but it's suggestive..."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Almost a pick-me-up if I think about it right."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Congratulations on averting as much horror as the Enemy could fit into three centuries objective time, minimum, because it's not as if there's any sign they would ever have done anything..."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Thanks."

Permalink Mark Unread

 

"Did you check this morning's transcripts - I haven't -"

Permalink Mark Unread

"- not yet." He pulls them up.

Permalink Mark Unread

"Breakfast!"

"Thank you. Do you want me to -"

"Be occasionally responsible for errands? I told Cam it would probably be psychologically healthy."

"...what, my lord?"

"Cam was there! I think he had instructions not to speak with me but I told him how enamored of him you were and he said you could write with the computer."

"I - regret conducting myself in a way that left you that impression, my lord."

"Mmmhmm. Eat. And then walk me through how the computer works."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I introduced him to Edie specifically so he wouldn't have to talk to me if he wanted to talk to someone who wasn't you or related to you..."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Which he would probably have appreciated if he was the one steering."

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"Yeah. I don't know what I'll say to him if he does wind up herded downstairs."

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"...yeah, that's a bit tricky. You could ask him whether he wants to meet his Abaddon counterpart, except then they have more information about forking than I think they have right now."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I could say 'whenever Edie gets around to holding her door to fetch her twin'..."

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"It'd at least be something where I'd be fine with actually respecting whatever preference he expresses. 

...you also don't have to let him hurt you, if Midnight finds it entertaining to make him do that."

Permalink Mark Unread

"If by 'hurt me' you mean 'mention that time I holed a planet' I'm not sure what alternative you have in mind."

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"'I told you I don't like discussing that'."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Ah, fairly soft form of 'not let', gotcha."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I am pretty sure he'll do whatever you ask if it's not actively contradicting something else he's been asked, so."

Permalink Mark Unread

"That's... creepy."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Yep. It's a thing to be aware of even separate from 'you can tell him not to discuss the planet thing'."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I will be aware of it. And creeped."

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"Think it's a strategic thing combined with bad background assumptions? Like, 'if someone is more powerful than me, defying them is not a good way to get what I want, obeying them and then figuring out how I can make them want it is the way to get what I want'. Not 'I take orders because of course I do.' I don't think."

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"I guess that's a little better, sort of."

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"I wish half their conversation wasn't over osanwë, I wonder if it's whenever they're looking at something together and it's faster - can't be deliberate caution on sensitive stuff..."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Well, it could be but that assigns him a really high level of just-in-case paranoia and very good planting-information-to-mislead skill."

Permalink Mark Unread

"And not mislead us in a direction that seems useful to him, either. He doesn't come out looking good in the transcripts we have -"

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"Are we sure he knows what good looks like."

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"If I found myself in a weird parallel world where everyone considered unspecified aspects of my conduct appalling but liked my boyfriend fine I would just do exactly what he was doing until I had more information. 

...I guess maybe he thinks he's doing that.

 

Actually getting him to be less evil is pretty much inevitably going to involve teaching him how to look less evil."

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"Maybe he won't encounter the concept of bugs in that time." Anything new on the transcript?

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Findekáno teaches him how the computer works. "Don't think they'll give you one."

"Mmhmm."

"I'm sorry. I should have shut up and refused to answer and waited them out - at least you know it was a sincere mistake -"

"And we fixed it," Maitimo says, "can't happen again."

"Thank you. I can try to convince them to give you one, in a couple weeks, once I'm less - skittish - around them -"

"Once we know more about what they'll find convincing. Chemistry?"

 

They work through the chemistry textbook. 

Permalink Mark Unread

"Is there any really compelling reason not to give him a computer besides 'fuck that guy' - he's willing to run up a tab, Bar can give him the nonchiplocked kind anyway -"

Permalink Mark Unread

"I think it's just 'fuck that guy' but it's a very forceful 'fuck that guy'."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Yeah, I just mean, if it's a useful bargaining chip somehow."

Permalink Mark Unread

"It probably will be. 

 

- I don't actually know how to pretend to like people, I just find it easy to actually like them. I think I will find it easier to actually like him than to convincingly fake it."

Permalink Mark Unread

"But you can, like, compartmentalize that...?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Yes, definitely, and also hurt people who I like if it's the right thing to do, except since I met him that latter tendency has seemed like less of a straight-up advantage..."

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Nod.

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"And usually I have non-instrumental reasons to want to like someone, I've never met someone who I actually preferred to hate before."

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"Never?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Well, the Valar? But they're nutty millions-of-years-old kangaroo-lizard-daeva, it's a bit different."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I run into people I would naturally dislike all the time."

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"I think most people do.

...if it helps, I virtually never run into people I want."

Permalink Mark Unread

"That is flattering."

Permalink Mark Unread

Smile. Weak smile.

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Sigh. Wingsnug.

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"How goes the magic music?"

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"Haven't decided what to try first. And it's going to be a little complicated to sightread, the motifs aren't influenced by the musical tradition I learned in at all. Also it's almost all got lyrics and those don't seem to be optional and I'm not a very good singer, not sure how much accompanying myself can compensate for that. But I'm mostly done with the notation translator."

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"I'm happy to sing along if that helps any, though I won't know your notation..."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Well, if my translator's good enough you can read the original and we'll match."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I will eagerly await it."

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Cam sends him a list of magic music he has found. "What do you wanna try first?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Crops would be hard to test...wind? blizzard - sounds fun, perhaps not in the bar - the illusion ones all look long and complicated -"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Sure. We'll go out back and play with the weather sometime someone else is around to monitor this area."

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"'grace' - useful, also hard to test - here's one for light, that might be a good place to start -"

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"I could probably test a grace one pretty well," Cam remarks.

Permalink Mark Unread

"You can try running around while I sing but then we've got no accompaniment."

Permalink Mark Unread

"If I can walk at all while playing the violin, the song is doing something."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Okay, sure, let's try the magic grace song. ...do they have any idea of the mechanics of their magic..."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I didn't find any. Vague woo about the universe being made of music and the song of creation."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Evil and incurious. Though I suppose they couldn't have had their Macalaurë write a commissioned symphony in exchange for a particle accelerator."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I suppose this'll be another source of complete works of Macalaurë, albeit with no recordings."

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"Wonder if he's evil too."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Well, apparently he doesn't object much to the slavery, but there's ways and ways to not object, I guess..."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I could probably pull it off politically. Wouldn't, but probably could."

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"How?"

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"Our people trust me. We were considering a forced evacuation of an inhabited planet, we were considering killing all the orcs, obviously some people are in the know and could independently do the cost-benefit analysis and understand why we might give orders like that but most of them don't have all the information, they pilot a ship and they know that the Enemy's evil enough for anything to be worth it if it stops him, and we don't have a conscience exception to orders, we don't have the concept, if I said 'yes, looks bad, it's a cover story and I need people to stop digging, after the war I'll explain' they would trust me there too -"

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"Ah."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I couldn't go 'I'm keeping a slave because I feel like it' but it's unclear to me whether my alt ever did that."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Suppose he'd say if asked?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Hard to guess. Might lie, probably wouldn't refuse to answer. Might tell the truth - I think he's at least interested in trying -"

Permalink Mark Unread

"What does trying look like on his end besides 'retaining the ability to swear he hasn't raped his slave lately'."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Coming down to get meals instead of sending Findekáno under horrifying oath sets, not doing things that'd provoke a confrontation like getting a few months' meals at once, everything else depends on whether there's an oath proscribing it - like, is Findekáno prohibited from speaking to any of us over osanwë, is he prohibited from communicating the room number, is he prohibited from using his messaging app unsupervised -"

Permalink Mark Unread

"He's not categorically prohibited from osanwëing us, there was a contingency about if he got too hungry to take the stairs..."

Permalink Mark Unread

"But we probably should not infer from the fact that he hasn't just told you the room number that he doesn't want us to find him."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Yeah. Probably."

Permalink Mark Unread

"And the 'retaining the ability to swear he hasn't raped his slave lately' isn't nothing, it is more concern for wanting to signal compatible values to us than I was expecting him to show."

Permalink Mark Unread

"What were you expecting?"

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"I told him I wanted him to get the oaths cleared and stop coercing him and then win him back without any games. I don't think that's possible - I hope that's not possible - but if he's working from that as 'what we want and are trying to bring about' - I don't know, maybe it was a mistake, maybe he's got enough strings to pull that with the oaths all cleared Findekáno still has no real way out - anyway, he's not behaving like someone afraid of losing, or considering giving away, his favorite toy -"

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"...was there an answer to my question in there?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"If he took that seriously I'd expect him either to be trying to lay the groundwork to win him back after being deoathed or to be trying to push that event as far off in subjective time as possible. He's not doing those things. If he didn't take that seriously I'd expect him to have decided to conspicuously be unmoved by our being appalled at him, and he's not doing that either."

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"I didn't directly read him being moved by our being appalled; it was very subtle."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I didn't read that off him in person either. Maybe he's not moved and just keeping his options open. ...if I'd heard the commitment not to touch him from Midnight rather than from the recording in context I think I'd have given it more weight as evidence of sincerity..."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Is he going to be able to deduce that we have extra sources of information, if you don't react like you would've should he say that...?"

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"Probably. I can react like I would've. ...can anyone else."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Prrrrrobably not but he knows less about how me or Edie would've reacted..."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Yeah - we should probably minimize his interaction with both of you anyway - what would it have been, can you reconstruct that -"

Permalink Mark Unread

"...probably conspicuous-to-a-you relaxing followed by cynical second-guessing and depending on context a sarcastic remark?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Is the difference 'the information won't be new' or 'you have more context for the cynicism' or both -"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Both mostly the first one."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Well. Doesn't know you that well, and we are not in fact literally psychic, but maybe better for me to find out first and then be presumed to have told everyone."

Permalink Mark Unread

"If we can finesse it. I can also spend a lot of time looking haunted and flinchy, that'll probably cover a lot and I can do it very authentically."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Oh, lovely.

 

 

I should check on the computers."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Okay." Kiss.

Permalink Mark Unread

"Unless you've got the songs set to test, then I can do that first."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Not yet, no, the time signatures are still fucked up and I haven't found the bug."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Okay. Later." Kiss. He goes upstairs.

Permalink Mark Unread

Cam hunts for the time signature bug.

Permalink Mark Unread

The Doom classifier can find a difference between Noldor in Endorë a few seconds before and a few seconds after the Valar were destroyed, and it seems impossible it's an emotional one, though he checks they weren't all around Huan or something.  He texts everybody who might be interested the news.

Permalink Mark Unread

Cool, we can blame a lot of the stupid on that.

Permalink Mark Unread

Not exactly cool but I guess better than innate stupidity. Also, if the Valar did mind-altering magic to hundreds of thousands of people who were going off to fight Melkor, intended it also to apply to their descendants - 'good riddance' is a bit callous but -

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Yeah I want to bring back the Maiar but the Valar kind of not so much. Doom and also the summoning interdict, I don't have another way handy to get the humans and Dwarves immortal.

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I do wish we could figure out how a summoning interdict is pulled off, in case we want a time-out dimension where it's prohibited. Maybe if there's an evil me there are, somewhere, nice Valar. Ours are at least a lot better than theirs.

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Yeah, it'd be good to be able to replicate for that purpose. Nice magic Valar would be so handy!

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I am pretty sure hoping for things just gives the landlords a chance to fuck with us, honestly. But yeah.

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I'm not sure how to quit hoping for things.

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I wanted to meet more alts and I got the evil one. Maybe just hope carefully.

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I can probably do that.

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And a while later, someone comes down to get dinner for two.

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Lentils and flatbread and fritter things and mango frozen yogurt!

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Cam looks up to see who it is but doesn't say anything.

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"Thanks," he says to the bar, and then sits there for a moment, looking at the dinner.

Permalink Mark Unread

You're entirely welcome.

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And he looks around and then turns around and walks upstairs with dinner.

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Findekáno got dinner. Exchanged no words with me.

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He pulls up the most recent transcript.

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Lots of chemistry, some computers, some reminiscing about some political problem back in their home world, then -

"I want you to go get dinner."

 

 

"Yes, my lord."

"Are you scared they'll try something or scared of them generally or nervous about the oaths I'm going to ask for -"

"All of those, I think."

"Speak freely -"

"Under my current oaths I could go down there and go ask about the oath-clearing you said they said they might have, stay down there. Or get another room. I don't think I'd be happier but on some level I feel like I should do it anyway, as a matter of principle. Or if I'm not doing it it should be because I've reasoned it out and decided this is the path that accomplishes my goals, rather than just - habit and terror and feelings about you I can't work through because they'll be more useful to you than to me - not that you're going to let me go down there, held this lightly, but I'd like to have a sense of what I'd do if you did - and I'm remembering trying to work under 'exactly what I think you'd want' and it was awful and it seems like you might enjoy that and I am debating whether to refuse if you ask me to swear that and I'm wondering who'll be downstairs and when exactly I developed this cringing terror of people, I don't like it, I want rid of it. I think I'm mostly terrified you'll want me to go down there and swear something, that'd - please don't do that, I'll be good - but I think I'm frightened around people even outside that -"

"People in general or specifically these ones, you do have some reason -"

"Want the full story. On the destroying Valinor. Want to know if it was quick, want to know if - what's going on now, want to know if there was anyone to sing for them - I'm not scared he'll hurt me, I'm not you but I spent a while with him and he's sensible and he didn't want to at all. Want to know if he's okay. He said his Maitimo was okay but of course he said that."

 

"Come here." Pause. "Swear you'll behave as if you'd resolved these internal confusions in favor of staying, until you next are alone in my presence."

He echoes it. 

"Speak freely -"

"That's significantly lighter, lets me discuss the considerations with someone if I frame it slightly differently, lets me tell them what oaths I'm under and entertain kidnapping attempts as long as I make it clear I've decided what I want. You're not expecting them to be very difficult - or are you checking whether I'll take openings when I give them - stricter is less stressful, sometimes, at least it's not a game and I don't feel as if I'm being prodded to be interesting. I'm really not looking forward to when you next get angry with me."

"I don't mind if you take a while to come back," he says. "I don't think they'll kidnap you and I don't think there's a set of oaths that protects against that except by damaging you if they try."

"Crossed my mind. Thank you for not -"

"'Please don't do that', you said, 'I'll be good.' Don't behave in a way that makes me regret being this conservative with your wellbeing."

"I'll come back to you."

"I know. Go get us dinner."

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He went back up? he asks Cam.

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Yeah, why?

Permalink Mark Unread

Not sure. Did you read this afternoon's transcripts -

Permalink Mark Unread

I'll catch up. He does that. I don't know how to predict what that oath would do - if it would have been too unlikely for him to resolve the dilemmas that way without having also decided not to talk to me -

Permalink Mark Unread

Yeah, makes sense. 

 

Bright side: he can apparently refuse oaths! And is presumably tortured for this, but it's better than being under one that obliges him to say any others...

Permalink Mark Unread

I find it... unlikely... that in nearly three hundred years your alt couldn't have arranged to force arbitrary oaths if that suited him. Is there a reason it might not suit him?

Permalink Mark Unread

Wasn't a psychologically useful state? If someone had the ability to force arbitrary oaths from me I think I'd just shut down - if he's a more conversant interesting slave this way -

Permalink Mark Unread

Can't just oath into not shutting down or something?

Permalink Mark Unread

We're outside my expertise but I think at some point if you tamper enough you lose all semblance of the person. 

 

...could have the ability to force arbitrary oaths but not let him remember that's the case.

Permalink Mark Unread

Fucking nightmarish.

Permalink Mark Unread

Yup. 

 

 

I wish I understood what he gets out of this. I feel like that'd - help. Somewhat.

Permalink Mark Unread

But there's not a simple kink minus scruples equals thing you can see?

Permalink Mark Unread

Equals keeping my boyfriend chained to the wall, sure. Equals insisting he sit in my lap while we learn chemistry and address me only with titles and repeatedly breaking his brain, no. Doesn't appeal even if I subtract out the horror of it.

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We don't really know how alts work to begin with...

Permalink Mark Unread

We don't. These are, like, three worlds seeded with the same premise and then tweaked in weird ways, like - like someone running a sociology experiment on a grand scale, or something - 

Permalink Mark Unread

And the Edie and her sister mashup, and whoever the other Revelation is... presumably enough other historical figures on that Earth match to make it Earthy, they'll need reasonable facsimiles if not outright alts of a bunch of people...

Permalink Mark Unread

We're being messed with.

 

 

I'm going to ask the team that's trying to figure out how to erase oaths from chips to start live experiments.

Permalink Mark Unread

Won't help the Findekáno he's not chipped.

Permalink Mark Unread

I know but I'm starting to get the feeling it's a big multiverse.

Permalink Mark Unread

It does look that way. Is there a reasonably large supply of people who'd want forks anyway...?

Permalink Mark Unread

Some. It should possibly wait until I can talk to all my people, but that could still be six, seven decades.

Permalink Mark Unread

Nechar's also presumably still okay with trying de-oathing consenting subjects, we wouldn't know if it'd apply to a Magic Elf but it also wouldn't require forking to try.

Permalink Mark Unread

That we could try right now, then.

Permalink Mark Unread

Yeah.

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He comes downstairs. "Want to come with me?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Still don't want to rely on them being timesynced."

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"Fair enough. I swear that until I have said  'this oath has an escape clause' I will not say the phrase 'wealthier green brigantine'  I'll go bother security."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Have fun."

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He goes over to Security.

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"Hey," says the sorcerer.

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"Hey. Cam said you might be able to erase oaths. I want to be a test subject for that. Can you do them one at a time or would you erase all oaths I'm under? - either is fine."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Don't know if I can do it at all but I can be selective if I can, precision's like never the limiting factor."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Cool. Five minutes ago I swore a test oath for the purpose, a really harmless one." He repeats it. "Do you need me to do anything?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Nope." Nechar squints at him. "Did that do it?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Wealthier green brigandine. Wow, cool." He beams at him. "Can you tell if I'm under any other ones - I shouldn't be, but it's technically possible I've forgotten -"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Sorcery's shit at information, I've got a lot of momentum but not enough to do divination like that."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Okay, thanks - might come bother you again - Cam said you wouldn't do it for someone who's under oath to obey someone else?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"I don't have a ton of practice at, like - judgment? When I have to maintain my momentum - literally all the time I'm not in here - I have to be doing magic, all the time, have to outsource stuff like 'deciding what magic to do' to save however long it takes to decide that sort of thing. I think I'd be kind of shit at deciding weird cases and things get complicated in here sometimes all kinds of stuff from all kinds of worlds - I gotta be kinda conservative, especially while I've got the luxury of not constantly doing stuff -"

Permalink Mark Unread

"That makes a lot of sense. Who do you usually outsource that to? They must have to be really trustworthy and really competent -"

Permalink Mark Unread

"I have my sister doing most of the finicky stuff, and some government type people can call me if they need something standard like healing or a teleport somewhere or anything I know is gonna be fine."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I don't suppose she's grabbable? If you can teleport?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Door's always closed by the time I get back to it. I can sorcer it open again but then it might've been a billion years in here or something."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I can't hold it open for you?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"What? No, you can only hold open doors to your own world."

Permalink Mark Unread

"...what happens if you try to hold open the door to someone else's -"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Switches to yours."

Permalink Mark Unread

"And there's no one within shouting distance of the place where you got the door?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Haven't got any houseguests, live in flying castle..."

Permalink Mark Unread

"...I can think of a way to do it but it's a little dubious."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I think it's maybe better not to mess with this kind of shit, dude."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I get where you're coming from, I really do. But also there's someone being tortured upstairs, and that seems like the sort of problem that when you can afford to think about it you should think really hard about."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I can't do divination, remember, anybody could walk in here and say anything, I wouldn't know."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Right, which is why I'm not asking you to take him out from under the obedience oath, I'm asking about a way to get someone from your world qualified to evaluate competing claims and the evidence we've got and decide whether that'd be a justified thing to do."

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"My sister can't do divination either. You know something, my world's like - really nice? Compared to most of 'em? Bar tells me stuff about other worlds and they're just - varying depths of shithole - mine's nice. My sister's got practice evaluating nice world kinda requests. Your thing's not her field of expertise."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Is there anyone in your world who can do divination?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Maybe? I don't think it's impossible in principle... y'know, like pulling the moons out of the sky... but anybody who could do it would have more layers of filter than me on the don't-waste-my-time thing."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Thanks. See you later."

 

And out, and to Cam, and "Nechar can do it. Bar, if Nechar holds the door to his world and Cam or Edie makes a person in it, will that person be able to hold the door for me?"

Permalink Mark Unread

I don't know.

Permalink Mark Unread

"...anyway, that's the best approach I've got on the 'import a sorcerer who sees the fact their world is a smiling ray of sunshine as a frustrating bound on their opportunities to do good rather than a reason they're unqualified to consider things with real stakes' plan. Also I'm not a magic Elf and it's possible it can't even be done for them."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I'm... not sure I want to invite the landlords to fuck with us on this level. Like, suppose we fork someone into Nechar's world, the door closes on them for mysterious reasons, and they don't find their way back to Milliways until a trillion years have gone by in-bar, and then the door thinks their home world is somewhere weird because of the circumstances of their existence..."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Nechar's world sounds like a perfectly nice place."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Okay, but that's just one random thing I came up with as a possible landlord-fuckery."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I really really resent having to even take into account the fact that this place is run by something sentient that punishes cleverness, it's really annoying and if I'm ever omnipotent it'll be stupid to retaliate for it but I'll definitely take away their shiny sentient toys."

Permalink Mark Unread

"One could make the argument that they didn't have to offer us doors in the first place."

Permalink Mark Unread

"They are not even in the running for 'worst people' but still, they could give a door to someone who could fix all of this easily and they are instead likely to change the rules to punish efforts to fix it at all."

Permalink Mark Unread

"They're not punishing all forms of effort. The engineers are usually running faster than the us, Bar's giving out all the textbooks we can specify to the point where she can help, the establishment is just - very firm on its intended use and cares more about being used correctly than about being unobtrusive in encouraging that."

Permalink Mark Unread

"If what my evil alt is doing is intended use -"

Permalink Mark Unread

"It's also very firm on its neutrality policy. Look, this is not what I would be doing with these capacities, but as alien powers messing around with people go, 'idiosyncratically constrained help which will probably in fact result in killing several Melkors when before nobody even knew there was more than one' is better than 'Lovecraftian horror' or, say, 'Melkors'..."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I know."

Permalink Mark Unread

"It's frustrating. I'm cultivating an attitude of acceptance because I'm not sure being ostentatiously frustrated doesn't make it worse."

Permalink Mark Unread

 

 

"Fair point. Okay. Nechar can also clear any oaths I've sworn, of which there shouldn't be any standing ones right now, and I considered asking him to do that to cover that scenario we discussed a couple days ago, but then it occurred to me that on the off chance I was evil and was modified away I should at least discuss it with you first."

Permalink Mark Unread

 

"Well. That would be disturbing."

Permalink Mark Unread

"It is vanishingly unlikely. But it seemed better to run by you before I said 'yes, please remove everything that might be fucking with my head'."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Nechar can't do divination, he won't be able to tell for me... Will you notice? Does it feel like anything?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"No. Didn't know this one was gone until I checked for it."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Would you notice if it'd been a mind-altering one?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"...possibly. Don't love the idea of swearing one to check, but I could."

Permalink Mark Unread

"That's not where I was going with that, I'm just trying to figure out if having him clear you and then you swearing that as far as you know it didn't do anything is reliable or if I need to be more creative."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I don't need to ask him at all but if I do ask you might need to be more creative."

Permalink Mark Unread

"If you were under oaths you have forgotten how would it have happened?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Hmmm - if someone else did it I would have had to be pretty young and they would have had to have a lot of leverage - or known about chip duplicating or had good amnestics, so they could get me alone and have a lot of tries at pulling it off - or in my society which is not fucked up, I can imagine an evil me deciding that a non-evil me would be likelier to end up ruling the world, and that whatever aspects of continuity of identity he cared about survived becoming not-evil, and swearing something carefully worded enough to forget having done this and why -

 

 - or, if whatever he cared about didn't survive becoming not-evil, could be time-limited -

 

- none of this is plausible, I'm just being maximally paranoid -"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Could see if we can learn to read the presence or absence of oaths on chips."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Worth a look."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Have we got samples of known populations to try?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"I can name you a couple thousand people who definitely are under - safe, reasonable - long-term oaths and a couple thousand who aren't?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Yeah, that's what I mean."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Want me to give you names or write up a list so you can do it in one batch -"

Permalink Mark Unread

"List is preferable."

Permalink Mark Unread

"'Kay."

 

And he settles onto the couch and writes a list. It takes a while. Cam might have magic songs up and running first.

Permalink Mark Unread

Well, here is something that sure seems to look like playable sheet music in Earth notation.

Permalink Mark Unread

"Shall we give it a go?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Let's get Edie in here but yes."

Permalink Mark Unread

So Maitimo asks the two of them to come in and they've been productively distracting themselves from moping about this stupid mess and are happy to come babysit the bar while magic is attempted.

Permalink Mark Unread

And Cam sets a tempo at which he expects to be able to sightread this weird music, and violins.

Permalink Mark Unread

And he sings.

Permalink Mark Unread

And they do magic!

Permalink Mark Unread

"Weird. Songs can't be magic back home, someone would have definitely noticed -"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Nor Earth or daeva worlds or Limbo." Cam plays back a recording of their performance.

It does magic.

Permalink Mark Unread

"Oh, lovely, I should go revise all our running-the-multiverse plans to account for the fact we can play music to the fields and boost production by as much as the inventors of nitrogen fertilizers."

Permalink Mark Unread

Wag wag. "I wonder if these are good enough to let things grow in Limbo without having to just completely replace the topsoil."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Ooooh. And if they're not, maybe better ones could be developed - they are deliberately composed, right - we've got to fork Macalaurë now -"

Permalink Mark Unread

"You think having him reverse-engineer his Mirror alt's compositions will work? Given music is not magic most places?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"I have no idea - though it'd have to be that the songs work everywhere but have to be written on Stupid Arda - but even if all he can do is perform them, you probably get a more powerful effect with a better singer, and next to Macalaurë I sound like a deaf, drunk teenager with a cold."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I have heard recordings of Macalaurë - two of him, even - but you still sound lovely to me."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Have we been dating for long enough that I should start screening for you being adorably biased in my favor?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"I mean, I think what's going on is I have human-quality ears and only so much musical discernment, but maybe?"

Permalink Mark Unread

Kiss. "We should figure out some way of measuring effect size so we can check whether I'm even right that a better performance gives you a boost.

 

And does tempo matter. On the recording."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Oooh, good question." Cam speeds it up and plays it again.

Permalink Mark Unread

And gets dancing lights!

Permalink Mark Unread

How fast can it go?

Permalink Mark Unread

There is a tempo, somewhere around 'unrecognizable', where it stops working. 

Permalink Mark Unread

"Huh. Cool."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Shall we make a blizzard? I know you can do that any time you feel like it but we squishy things don't get to play weather god very often."

Permalink Mark Unread

Kiss. "Sure."

Permalink Mark Unread

They make a blizzard!

Permalink Mark Unread

Magic music is fun!

Permalink Mark Unread

They spend a while going through all of the songs with interesting effects that he has the music for. The most exciting one is a stealth song that makes the eyes skip over someone as an unremarkable landscape feature.

Permalink Mark Unread

"Welp that one's creepy if I think about it from certain angles but I guess I can parse it as, like, camo..."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I was assuming it's sense-affecting not mind-affecting, yeah - not sure how to check -"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Let's see if it works on a camera. Won't actually clarify that question, but still -" He tries that.

Permalink Mark Unread

The person is present on camera, no problem. Played without audio: the person is perfectly visible and noticeable. Played with audio they're still there, if you freeze and look at a frame, but someone you show the video (they fetch an amused Tyelcormo to look) will not notice anyone.

 

Permalink Mark Unread

"....so maybe it's mind-affecting. Some of these definitely are - I don't even want to touch anything that's calling itself a love song -"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Yeah, fuck that."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I wonder if the evil alt -"

Permalink Mark Unread

 

"Don't think we have a way to tell. Gut says it'd look different if that were going on and if the songs work very well, but maybe they don't?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Or don't last very long - get someone in the mood for a few hours -"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Or that..." He checks the transcript.

Permalink Mark Unread

It continues to not have rape, music-assisted or otherwise! They eat. They have long osanwë conversations broken up only by giggling. They do spend a few hours of the afternoon singing -

Permalink Mark Unread

"- but that's not suspicious in itself, that's just - Elves - Findekáno and I wrote songs together -"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Yeah, I'm familiar with the musical proclivities of Elves."

Permalink Mark Unread

"We don't have a way to check if the songs are magic other than singing them, do we - you can't conjure recordings that are of magic songs, doesn't count as a different medium -"

Permalink Mark Unread

"I don't think so..."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Well. Let's not sing things my evil alt sings, the information value's not high enough to justify musical mind control - also, maybe we should try to avoid recordings of some of these coming into existence -"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Yeah. The sheet music's bad enough, yet another thing for the 'demon powers are just a little too convenient' list..."

Permalink Mark Unread

"And this one's not even one that's easily enforced, you can't stop people from inviting a friend over and singing them a song -"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Demons would find the specific notion less restrictive than Elves would but on the other hand demons are used to anarchy so."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I meant more 'can't easily check for violators with conjuration', not 'would be unacceptably authoritarian', but yeah, that too."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Enforcement probably gets somewhat harder if people think the rule is unreasonable!"

Permalink Mark Unread

"I mean, the rule in my kingdom's just going to be 'use of magic love songs is prosecuted as rape', is that going to go over badly in Hell."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Anarchy includes no actual procedure for prosecuting rape. It's not actually impossible for demons to rape each other but it's a hassle, kind of a crapshoot to find somebody who won't wall an assailant off or happens to have chosen to be unconscious or can't easily flip off whatever surrounding power structure - anyone who's really keen on it takes summons and waits -"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Wouldn't have to wait that long. Minimum legal binding back home doesn't let daeva touch anyone, but elsewhere it was a problem."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Yep. I've been summoned in badly managed bindings before."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Desperate or just careless? ...might actually steal the minimum legal bindings enforcement from Mandos, it wasn't a bad idea or wouldn't have been if he wasn't Mandos."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Careless. Desperate people drop the gag, apart from my current unbound summon I've never been summoned ungagged. Not letting daeva touch anybody seems okay for short term summons, cruel for long term ones for some possible daeva..."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Who could turn down long-term jobs, but that might be squandering some perfectly functional partnerships. Do you have a good set of ground rules in mind?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"I guess if you don't have gags common then a lot of the failure modes are less terrible, I'd need to look at the set Mandos was enforcing with that in mind."

Permalink Mark Unread

"The point of the gags is so you don't get talked out of your soul? .... I guess if you don't actually have souls you can't just have a binding that prohibits that specifically..."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Yep."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Awkward. And yet better than the alternatives."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I'm not sure it would improve anything on an Earth for it to become common knowledge that demons cannot actually take possession of the non-chip variety of soul. Desperate summoners would have to cough up something else if they wouldn't be entertainingly horrified by the prospect."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Whereas in Abaddon soul-stealing is worse than most things people could be entertainingly distraught over by a long shot."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Yep. Very different conditions."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Enforcement of a 'no making people' policy will also make that problem go away, I guess."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Well, I assume having your soul extracted while you were, like, alive and the daeva was therefore not sent back yet, would still be kind of unpleasant, even if they couldn't go on to do anything with it."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Yes, but not necessarily the kind of thing I'd want to prohibit, on the what-are-they-trading-for-otherwise principle?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Yeah. Although honestly if you're not gagging people you could have some kind of sensible referral system where you can summon specific daeva into and qualified for whatever you want done with clearly specified nonhorrible wishlists, on the first try."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Good idea. I can't think of a single reason we'd be gagging people, even if it didn't incidentally solve all these problems."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I know, right? It's so dumb. This one guy post-Revelation decided that the best way to make a buck off having been a summoner before it was cool, since the bottom was about to drop out of all the markets he'd been in before, was to go on talk shows and stuff, and he popularized the gagging demons thing - my abridgement of the book I found didn't even have that - and he was very charismatic, I guess, it spread all over the place -"

Permalink Mark Unread

"I hope he was a demon for karmic reasons, but doesn't sound like the type."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Angel, checked once."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I just can't imagine how you get anywhere - find someone who'll make you a war fleet without asking any questions, as if that's not terrifying in its own right?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"People are actually very timid about the use of demons on Earth - I was never actually allowed to terraform Mars but nobody beat me to it either -"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Huh. What a - costly cultural thing, wonder if there's a way to fix it - maybe we can just fly over in our beautiful spaceships and be noticeably much richer than them because we are less timid - admittedly we did a lot of fucking around so we could reliably pay for spaceships while staying within the rules, but still -"

 

And his expression crumbles, abruptly, and then returns to cheerful.

Permalink Mark Unread

"- what?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Didn't think something through, I don't think you want me to say it."

Permalink Mark Unread

Permalink Mark Unread

"I can if you want just - Eru, Cam, the look in your eyes - I'm so sorry -" Hugs?

Permalink Mark Unread

Hugs. "If you don't tell me I'm going to wonder."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I was going to say that perhaps it will do something for the public reputation of demons when the emperor of the multiverse has a demon boyfriend and then I realized it. Won't."

Permalink Mark Unread

 

"Yeah. Probably best not to advertise me. Trot out your brother's girlfriend to improve the reputation of demons."

Permalink Mark Unread

More forceful hugs. "I'm sorry."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I must make really impressive faces - it's not a catastrophe every time it comes up, you know."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Am I making it worse by being bothered by your faces? But I don't mean "I'm sorry for bringing it up", I mean I'm sorry I can't make you co-emperor of the universe you deserve it and you'd be really fucking good at it -"

Permalink Mark Unread

"No, you're not making it worse." Sigh. Squeeze. "If I'd found the door just a little earlier, just a couple months... then I'd be really excited about being co-emperor of the multiverse you have no idea, just, over the moon about it -"

Permalink Mark Unread

Squeeze. "I think I do have some idea, that's the thing.

 

 

I will not put you on PR campaigns but I'm not keeping you a secret either."

Permalink Mark Unread

"If you think you can walk that tightrope and have manageable public opinion..."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Oh, you know me, managing public opinion's going to be the hardest part."

Permalink Mark Unread

Snort. "At some point you may encounter a genuine challenge on that front."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Elves are an unusually easy medium to work in, admittedly, but I am pretty sure I can do it. And if I can't - hand the title to a fork from before Milliways, maybe. It would hurt a lot but I could still do most of the same projects and I do not think you deserve however-long-you-want-to-be-involved-with-me of sneaking around so I'm not damaged by association with someone who did exactly what I'd have done in their place."

Permalink Mark Unread

 

"I'm not in the least sure that the proposed forking arrangement would be less net hurtful than just secreting me away."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Depends on how long you're going to want this, maybe. And whether it bothers you or just me, I guess -"

Permalink Mark Unread

"It'd bother me a little but not insurmountably and therefore not indefinitely. I don't really have a timeline in mind..."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Yeah, I wasn't expecting you'd put a countdown on it. I'm an Elf, we have been known to consider a couple of decades a fling, I don't want to scare you by planning on the scale of millenia and so much will have changed by then anyway -"

Permalink Mark Unread

"So maybe don't anticipate dealing with a PR handicap you could just route around."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I'll think about it."

Permalink Mark Unread

 

"I did know I was kind of buying myself a life of obligate minimal political involvement and emotional unpleasantness," Cam says. "It didn't just happen to me."

Permalink Mark Unread

 

"Not the point. It's - it's not like the calculus would have changed based on personal costs anyway. It is entirely plausible to me that you'd have agreed to something even more personally unpleasant than this, if he'd asked for that instead of Valinor, and - signing up for it wouldn't have made it okay -

It is unappealing to run the universe while scouring around for magic so you can sneak in and out of the palace and conveniently not make anyone uncomfortable."

Permalink Mark Unread

"What's this sneaking in and out you speak of, don't I get to live in the belfry pretending to be a gargoyle, what a ripoff."

Permalink Mark Unread

He laughs. Weakly. "Shall we go relieve Edie and my brother, for all I know they've been in there a week."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Yeah, sure. Although I'd think they'd message us."

In they go.

Permalink Mark Unread

"Got magic music from Bizarre Arda?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"I've been calling it Mirror," says Cam. "And yes."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Ooh, what kinds?"

Permalink Mark Unread

Cam sends her a list, and a copy of his notation translator.

Permalink Mark Unread

"Oh, some of these are really cool," she muses. "I bet the grace one has real potential for being incorporated into aerial ballet."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Be careful, some of them do mind control and it's going to be a real hassle to enforce laws against mind-controlling singing."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Be delighted to field ideas on that."

Permalink Mark Unread

 

"...Oooh, yeah, ouch. It'll probably help if we find something other than demonic powers for hilarious infosec hazardry."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I'd ask Mirror how they handle it but for some reason I feel like the answer'd be 'oh, yes, here's how to use mind-control to run your society'."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Eugh."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I wonder what evil everyone-else is like."

Permalink Mark Unread

"So, we don't actually know that any other specific people are evil, just that there's a lot more violence and a lot more societal acceptance of it - which is an axis human societies vary tremendously along anyways, and more modern societies are less violent so part of that may be attributable to the 'tech level: swords' thing. It's possible most of the people we know are pretty okay - or, okay as far as they can be while not objecting to him - I do vaguely expect alts of me to be influenceable by prevailing norms more than, say, alts of Tyelcormo -"

 

Permalink Mark Unread

He snorts.

Permalink Mark Unread

It's one of the endearing things about you.

Permalink Mark Unread

What, that I have enough problems with authority I'd probably keep having them if authority were my evil brother?

Permalink Mark Unread

That you're--not susceptible to the banal evil of just going along with things because of sheer social inertia like so many people are.

Permalink Mark Unread

Likewise.

Permalink Mark Unread

I love you.

Permalink Mark Unread

Shall we take advantage of misters ambitious-and-mopey here being back to cover the bar, head back out, get some squid footage?

Permalink Mark Unread

Sounds good!

Permalink Mark Unread

"You two are back on Bar-babysitting duty, kay? We might have a go at the magic music, and we're getting some footage of the giant squid for our amateur movie in which he eats the evil Maitimo."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Have fun. Unfortunately the traditional ways to designate evil versions of characters in Earth media involve facial hair..."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I mean, he styles his hair differently - Elves'll be able to tell -"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Every time I see him I have to strike a bunch of hairstyles forever."

Permalink Mark Unread

Cam squeezes his hand.

Permalink Mark Unread

Squeeze. 

 

"Might go bring the engineers more snacks."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Yeah, have fun."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Maybe we can give him a villainous leer," she muses.

Permalink Mark Unread

"We can try one, see how it looks on him." 

 

And they head outside. 

Permalink Mark Unread

"Is he liable to do something irritating like deliberately rotate through hairstylespace until you have to do something really weird to avoid matching?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"He's mostly wearing styles conventionally reserved for the King, and as long as he constrains himself to those there is plenty of hairstyle space but none that will read to an Elf as 'in charge here'."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Inconvenient for when you're emperor of the multiverse."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Yep."

Permalink Mark Unread

"You will have to compensate with a crown or something."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Do you have any delightfully pretty crown ideas on hand or should I design myself one?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"I could design you a crown. I have been told that I have Elf-tolerable aesthetics at least for architecture."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I would be delighted to be designed a crown.

 

I am trying not to develop an aversion to anyone ever addressing me by title but that might also be a problem."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Make one up? Or go conspicuously informal as countersignaling."

Permalink Mark Unread

"What ended up happening at home was that I told everyone to call me Maitimo and yet people noticed that I found courtesies flattering and went with more extravagant ones the more appropriate it would have been for them to just use my name. It'll be hard to reverse without explaining why but I guess I could just explain why."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Sort of an awkward explanation but I suppose people will need to know to check if you're being impersonated anyway."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I am not looking forward to swearing there's nothing they need to know about me over and over. Maybe I can do it live on television, get it over with."

Permalink Mark Unread

Sigh. "Yeah."

Permalink Mark Unread

Transcript?

Permalink Mark Unread

They debate which book to get next. They debate whether Findekáno should be allowed to grow out his hair - "the other Maitimo likes you like this, too, his boyfriend -"

"Perhaps it's less unpleasant for humans - he used to be a human - "

"Our humans wear their hair long."

"Because their society is run by Elves."

They sing. They read from a book they got from Bar, occasionally reading passages of interest aloud. They debate whether they can safely go outside. "If we're going to risk it at some point," Maitimo says, "the safest time is in a few weeks once they've committed themselves to not murdering me and aren't likely to reverse the decision on impulse."

"Tyelcormo's girlfriend seems - well, Tyelcormo's girlfriend would almost have to be - impulsive -"

"I also don't think they'll kill me in front of you, not unprovoked."

"They consider themselves provoked."

"I know."

Permalink Mark Unread

"It is somehow very disturbing to have implications drawn from the fact that I continue to wear my hair the way I have since I was four."

Permalink Mark Unread

"You are entirely welcome to clarify."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I'd really rather not on several levels."

Permalink Mark Unread

Permalink Mark Unread

Sigh. Hug?

Permalink Mark Unread

Hug. Productive depression, let's do that. He brings the engineers snacks and checks in on what happens to a chip when an oath's reversed and idly contemplates whether it's ethically defensible to mind-control Findekáno into listening to him so he can tell him to get his oaths cleared.

Permalink Mark Unread

Cam hangs out in the bar and fiddles with crown designs and peers at the transcript occasionally.

Permalink Mark Unread

"I would like you to go get us dinner tonight."

"Okay. Oath -"

"Swear not to bring it about that I regret sending you. I won't regret it if you talk to people, I won't regret it if you are delayed in coming back because you want to go play outside, I will regret it if you give them information they can use against us or if you arrange for the oaths to be erased or if you don't come back or if you provoke them into making trouble -"

"I swear that I will not bring it about that you regret letting me out."

Kiss. "Perhaps this building will be kind to me and make your absence fly by quickly."

"I hope so," Findekáno says earnestly, and there's a door opening and closing.

Permalink Mark Unread

Cam shoos the transcript and has his computer display a book on climatology, which he sort of distractedly skims through.

Permalink Mark Unread

And he comes downstairs and - "hi, Bar. Could I have dinner? And a book about daeva?"

Permalink Mark Unread

Porkchops and millet pilaf and chocolate raspberry tarts. Do you have a preference about which world's perspective on daeva you would like?

Permalink Mark Unread

"Uh, not really? Something detailed and practical."

Permalink Mark Unread

He can have Summoning: Compiled Lectures and Handouts by Campbell Mark Swan ed. Thea Fisher.

Permalink Mark Unread

He blinks. "Uh, thanks." 

 

He glances over at Cam. 

Permalink Mark Unread

...Cam looks at the book.

He frowns and goes through his old university notes and mutters "the fuck, Thea".

Permalink Mark Unread

"...you didn't know you'd written a book?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"I didn't technically write that book, Thea must've transcribed a bunch of recordings and edited them together into a book, and I didn't know she did that."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Is it going to be a good resource? Do you recommend a different book?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"It... should be fine, I guess? Depending on what you want to know?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"...what the magic system is, how it works, whether we can - um - keep our Valinor safe -"

Permalink Mark Unread

 

"Yeah, it'll be fine for that."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Thanks. 

 

 

Sorry. Maitimo said not to mention it."

Permalink Mark Unread

 

"It's okay. Not like I don't think about it a lot anyway."

Permalink Mark Unread

 

"Was - was it quick -"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Instant."

Permalink Mark Unread

He closes his eyes. "Thank you."

Permalink Mark Unread

"You're welcome."

Permalink Mark Unread

And after a long moment's pause he takes the food and book and goes upstairs.

Permalink Mark Unread

So Cam writes Maitimo, unbeknownst to me I wrote a book?

Permalink Mark Unread

How does that happen?

Permalink Mark Unread

One of my students recorded all my lectures and saved all my handouts and published them in book form. Bar gave it to Findekáno when he asked for a book on daeva.

Permalink Mark Unread

Of course my evil alt wants to learn summoning. 'None of our world's music has ever been recorded, but we'll sing it for you' will probably sell fine, too.

Permalink Mark Unread

Yeah. We don't actually know if summoning works here.

Permalink Mark Unread

Should we check so we're not surprised if he acquires himself some friends -

Permalink Mark Unread

Probably. You want me there to pay an angel or whatever?

Permalink Mark Unread

I'll come to you so the bar's not unoccupied.

Permalink Mark Unread

Yeah.

Permalink Mark Unread

So he comes downstairs, pulls up a circle on his computer - "can you do all but one line -"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Yeah sure -" Here it is.

Permalink Mark Unread

And now it's a summoning circle.

Permalink Mark Unread

 

 

No bites. Cam relaxes.

Permalink Mark Unread

"Wonder if the principle at work is 'summoning doesn't work in Milliways' or 'summoning doesn't work in dimensions without native daeva realms', the latter will be annoying for ending scarcity in the multiverse..."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Yeah, have to expand the transit to accommodate cargo..."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Or just accommodate daeva, if bindings stick when someone enters a new dimension."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Edie still have hers? Of course Milliways might be a fluke there. She could step into Singularity for a sec..."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I thought she must not because it prohibits killing people, which she was debating doing, but she observed that it prohibited killing people in a way that destroyed their chips, which was fine on Valinor but isn't actually safe anywhere else."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Oof. Yeah."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Everyone else we have with us is on a standard binding which definitely prohibits all kinds of killing people. I should probably figure out what 'no killing people who aren't chipped, no chip-destroying' looks like, because in a mess like the one on Endorë the less latitude you give people the less they can do to actually help. And we have to continue pretending to care about chip-destroying."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Wait, how do you not have this already, doesn't 'no chip-destroying' allow killing babies in your world."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Oh, it's super illegal, but I wasn't too worried Edie was going to go around killing babies and we were expecting we'd need the option to kill orcs."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Your orcs aren't chipped? Singularity's are."

Permalink Mark Unread

"No, they are. Which is why when we didn't have a better solution we considered killing them all in a non-chip-destroying way so we could bring 'em back after we had Melkor secured. It would have been really, really ugly - we'd have lost all the young children -"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Yeah. And orcs have a ton of kids."

Permalink Mark Unread

"They don't draw circles for him constantly or anything. If we'd killed his summoner before he realized we were trying to do that we could have been the first to bring him back, before they even had time to start trying. It seemed like it might be the right thing to do, blowing up Earth. 

 

There's a reason I'm fairly defensive about what you did - there but for the grace of the landlords -"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Thank you landlords," murmurs Cam.

Permalink Mark Unread

"And I don't think I'd try for the multiverse, after that, either." Sigh. "Nechar was telling me how his world's all nice, and everywhere else is just varying depths of shithole - I thought our world was nice, before the Enemy showed up."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Was your Endorë nice too?"

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"Yeah. Bit of a freedom/order tradeoff, but one everyone at least got to make freely. The Valar only enforced their laws in their system. Endorë's behind us in tech but was still post-scarcity."

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"Singularity's Doriath was post-scarcity, rest of it wasn't."

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"Is Singularity's Doriath ruled by a Maia -"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Yeah."

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"Tech level on Endorë's around that of Earth circa the late twentieth century, is that the same?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Maybe more midcentury but yeah."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I think we're a little ahead of Singularity's Valinor too. It's probably the daeva."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Probably. Do they directly have the extra tech and share or is it just that daeva-supported R&D is so much faster?"

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"Mostly the latter. Chips are theirs, lots of daeva-specific systems security is theirs, can't say how much they did for us back in the early years, but the big difference is in daeva-supported R&D, and in making space exploration affordable."

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"Singularity did have some lightleaper ships even before I turned up to expand the fleet... I think the magic god Valar do postscarcity too, just differently and more centrally."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Maybe the magic god Valar are better at understanding their subjects."

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"...I guess it's theoretically possible to be worse at understanding people than the magic god Valar..."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Or maybe not. The Valar are aliens and millions of years old and daeva don't have particular advantages in intelligence, it was easy to follow why they were - the way they are. Magic gods have fewer excuses."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Are your Maiar good at people?" Cam wonders.

Permalink Mark Unread

"No, but they're also aliens, and weird hive-mind aliens sapient only in the aggregate, so that's not surprising...are yours?"

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"I didn't interact much with the exactly three I met - and Melian I didn't actually see in person, they wouldn't let me in Doriath - but my impression is no. Except maybe Thauron who mostly used this ability to be a creep."

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"Thauron?"

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"Melkor's right-hand man. Went to a parley with him one time with your Singularity alt, after I could verify oaths and was sure it wasn't merely an obvious trap. Such a creep."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Just in the sense of being affable while discussing his torture factories with you, or -"

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"Oh, also the part where he handed me Finwë's chip, which obviously I couldn't embody because who the fuck knew what had been done to the man, and the entire setup - I was recording, you want to see?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Love to."

Permalink Mark Unread

Cam pulls up the annotated transcript, prologues it with the wording of the oath extracted in advance.

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"Clever," he murmurs, and reads, and - "wow. I wonder what he'll get up to now that he's thoroughly proscribed from being evil, he doesn't give off the impression of having other hobbies..."

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"He can do evil politics or vivisect kittens or something, just very restrainedly by comparison."

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"Maybe we should kill him anyway."

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"Yeah, probably."

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"Do you have a complete list of Maiar in the service of the Enemy -"

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"No, sorry."

Permalink Mark Unread

"It's fine. Targeting the ones in my world off intelligence from yours is dubious anyway, considering that alts apparently vary quite a lot -"

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"Yeah. It'd be worth looking them up, and I wouldn't trust anybody named Thauron if I were you, but yeah."

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"Maybe my Thauron's a lovely person as appalled by his evil alt as I am by mine, but I will not plan on it."

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Nod.

Cam peers at the transcript.

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"I swear that I don't have any discontinuities in my memory and haven't sworn anything since we last spoke," he says, "was I gone long?"

"Not at all. Come here. Book?"

"Cam wrote it."

"Interesting. In the future when you go downstairs you will let me watch through your eyes."

"Yes, my lord."

And the sound of pages rustling.

 

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("God that's creepy," Cam says, and he notifies to-whom-it-may-concern about this extra layer of assuming anything Findekáno learns will make it back to Evil Maitimo.)

---

The editor's introduction reads like the person who wrote it has a crush on Cam. There's a black and white photo of him at a chalkboard, absent wings and tail, wearing a shirt, looking about as young as he does now, mid-drawing a summoning diagram and gesturing with the other hand; and the editor writes about the irregular teaching arrangement as, shortly post-Revelation, institutions scrambled to be able to claim to offer educations in summoning and allowed people with preexisting knowledge of daeva who didn't have existing credentials (for there were none) to teach classes. Cam, who preferred that address to being called Professor or Mr. Swan, was younger than half his students, audited classes when he wasn't teaching them - apparently he sat near Thea in econ and she fondly remembers glancing over his shoulder at the phrase "gains from trade!" in his notes surrounded with little stars as though he were contemplating marrying it.

It is very sad that he died because Thea observes a trend these days of declining to think of daeva as people and Cam was always as interested in what daeva were like and what they got out of taking summons as he was about the permanent end to the energy crisis, the suddenly much nearer and cheaper prospect of traveling to other planets, the fact that the supply of charitably inclined people in the human population was suddenly enough to carry the burden of the need now that anybody could draw on the floor for twenty minutes and trade with people who wanted music and stories and other infinitely copiable returns in exchange for limitless bounty of medicine or food or -

Thea explains that she was in the habit of recording the lectures and putting them on the internet for correspondence students, as the class was always packed, and has finally received permission to compile those and classroom handouts into this textbook, which she's been very eager to do because so many more people should have gotten to learn from this person and the human race was robbed when that crazy guy came in and shot him for "ruining his livelihood".

Permalink Mark Unread

Well. It is not surprising that the editor of this book would have developed a crush on Cam. Given that information and not the information that he killed a world on the orders of the Enemy.

 

"It's sad he died. I hope he was reembodied quickly - she doesn't seem to have been optimistic -"

"She seems very enamored of him."

"Well, he comes across as pretty amazing."

"You two would get along," Maitimo says, watching him intently. 

"We haven't, really. I - think as far as he is concerned I am your puppet, there's no one present to interact with - and there's the destruction of Valinor - I asked him if they died quickly, I didn't have the nerve to ask him anything else -"

"You were smiling."

"Because their world had limitless medicine and food and energy, nothing to do with Cam except insofar as he was also happy about that - am I making you jealous -"

"It's been a long time since I've seen you smile like that."

"We should figure out how to summon, give our world limitless food and medicine, then I'll smile like that for you all the time -"

 

(A page turning.)

Permalink Mark Unread

("Enamored of me? Thea? Really?" Cam conjures up his own copy to read the introduction.)

---

There are lectures presented in curriculum order. The first one is an introduction to the basic concept: three kinds of daeva and what's known about their worlds, the broad strokes of their powers, the steps of summoning including that daeva choose to answer calls, stern safety warnings on only completing circles after you've written (in your native language!) the binding and checked it over, trades and negotiations and dismissals, language acquisition and lack of cultural acquisition upon summoning, homework is to write a page on what you'd want out of being summoned if you were a daeva pick-a-kind.

He summons for class demonstrations; he hands out interviews he's conducted with daeva he's summoned before -

- someone asks him in lecture 15 if he's been summoning for years why did he only pop out in public as a summoner after Revelation -

Ah, goes Thea's transcription of his answer, I've asked myself that a few times... it's the sort of thing where you wonder why no one else has already done it, you'd have to think you knew better than all the other summoners before you'd try it... getting back to specifying daeva by criteria other than name...

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"Who was Revelation -"

"Says in the introductions that it's a mystery," Findekáno says. "You would have to know better than all the other summoners, that'd be a reason for a lot of people -"

" - not him, unless I'm very much misreading him," says Maitimo.

"And how often does that happen?"

"More often when everyone hates me, probably, it's not optimal conditions - send me your first interaction with him -"

A minute's pause. 

"Not his real reason," Maitimo says.

 

 

"Your alt -"

"Would have found that appealing. Good people have so many more strings to pull."

Findekáno makes a soft muffled sound. 

 

Permalink Mark Unread

("Annnnnd now they know that.")

---

It's a good textbook on the practicalities of summoning and provides lovely context on what Fairyland is like, what demons want, what kinds of training to ask if your angel has before getting them to do this or that - digressions into daeva in current events (Cam's so excited about the Mars landing - Cam's spending half of a lecture talking about seasteads and the economic upheaval in Africa and skyscrapers higher than they know how to build conventionally - Cam's annoyed that people are listening to that television personality who advises gagging demons -)

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"Alright, let's try a circle."

 

And half an hour of frustration before they conclude it doesn't work in Milliways, express intent to go try back home if the bar's ever unoccupied but it seems that they're making a point of not leaving the bar unoccupied.

Permalink Mark Unread

"Yeah, let's continue to make a point of not leaving the bar unoccupied."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Yep. 

 

 

I should probably start talking to my alt before he gets impatient."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Well, you can hang out with me until one of them comes down and even if it's Findekáno your alt will be watching."

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"Yeah. I was going to avoid Findekáno but I guess that's not really going to help very much."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Not really, no."

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He scowls at the transcripts. "He is trying to nudge him into ending scarcity by making him jealous, isn't he."

Permalink Mark Unread

"If all you have is a hammer..."

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"Yeah."

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"Is that likely to be as transparent to your alt as to you?"

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"Definitely, but he might let him get away with it anyway - he hasn't overwritten him, he must get something out of having him in exactly the state he's currently in - it is possible my alt would be worse than me at picking up that Findekáno's faking something to be jealous over, if my alt is a jealous person and wouldn't have had recent chances to be exposed to what Findekáno-actually-wanting-someone looks like..."

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"It did seem a little weird - hundred percent fake?"

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"Latched onto you slightly, think that's real. But - pretty much, yeah. Why?"

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"Wanted to know how weirded out to be."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I think he's using the heuristic 'when people do things that I want Maitimo to do, be annoyingly-to-Maitimo excited by this and by them', not 'when I read a book prologue written by an adoring and overly zealous biographer, develop a crush'".

Permalink Mark Unread

"Good. Sort of. I should like write Thea a letter or something at some point, I had no idea she'd done this book..."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Where's she now?"

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"Not sure what she'd have turned into..." He checks, gets a butterfly wing. "Fairyland."

Permalink Mark Unread

"She seems at least enamored for the right reasons."

Permalink Mark Unread

"There used to be this website where people could rate their professors and one of the things you could rate them on was how hot they were. People wrote very silly things on there."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Really? No hope for accurate appraisals of your hotness?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Silly, I didn't comment on inaccuracy. I got lots of what I assume were sincere appraisals of my hotness."

Permalink Mark Unread

"It's weird to think that was only a dozen Years ago."

Permalink Mark Unread

"It feels like a long time to me."

Permalink Mark Unread

"They were an eventful dozen Years. 

 

I wish you'd lived longer, I bet your world'd be correspondingly nicer."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Maybe. If I'd thought of something else cool."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Or just ensured demons getting summoned gagged was less of a thing -"

Permalink Mark Unread

"I never did think of a good angle to counter that."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Did it actually reduce instances of people getting talked out of their souls? You said desperate people'd leave the gag off anyway..."

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"They do. It's hard to get good statistics on it - there were so few summoners pre-Revelation - but I can't believe it helped anything."

Permalink Mark Unread

 

"Maybe you'd have put together interdimensional summoning. Or heard about it from a daeva who'd been on one."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Maybe! And then Earthlings would have kangaroo-lizards to investigate and trade tech with."

Permalink Mark Unread

"It would have been very exciting for you! The kangaroo-lizards have lightleapers according to their aesthetic sensibilities - Elves think theirs are very ugly and they think the same of ours - but humans probably wouldn't have cared."

Permalink Mark Unread

"And presumably there could be cosmetic redesigns."

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"So I'm told. We tried to figure out how we could leverage the interdimensional summoning to get places tech, but it was a very clumsy instrument for that."

Permalink Mark Unread

"How many sets of daeva worlds did you wind up finding?"

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"Inconveniently, it was hard to verify that two demons we talked to were from different Hells unless they were feeling cooperative, and lots were vaguely suspicious. There are at least eight and either our random selection isn't random or there's fewer than thirty."

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"Huh. It's not all different species - not one kangaroo-lizard Hell and one human Hell and so on -?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"There aren't any kangaroo-lizards outside ours and we never summoned human-like ones except from yours but some universes have lots of species."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Huh. How many is lots?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"I think the record is hundreds."

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"Did they all wind up near each other in the daeva worlds or no?"

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"Nope, lightyears apart. Only knew of each other through conjuring."

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"Ah, would've been fascinating to see the kind of society that'd arise..."

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"Wouldn't it? Well, they have lightleapers now, maybe they're mixing."

Permalink Mark Unread

"That'll be interesting in its own way!"

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"What we hadn't encountered was any dimensions with native magic except daeva, or we'd have tried pulling in a hundred of them back in Valinor and finding someone with a magic system that could help us. I didn't know those even existed until Milliways."

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"I was actually kind of unclear on whether the magic god Valar and Maiar were legit magic gods or just sufficiently-advanced. Mirror's a point in favor of the legit magic gods hypothesis."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Because it's got the glowy trees, or because sufficiently-advanced is a less plausible hypothesis when the local tech level is 'would be really excited about a lightbulb'?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"The latter. Also like - you probably don't light a planet with glowy trees that cover only one continent for the aesthetic? And you probably aren't sufficiently advanced if you don't know how to do a sun."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Probably not. ...did they figure out how to do a sun, because what - 'put a lot of hydrogen a hundred million miles away' isn't - isn't an approach that'd arise naturally -"

Permalink Mark Unread

"I'm not sure. Maybe it's a fake sun. ...The stars are referred to earlier though, I wonder what's up with those..."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Do you think you could participate in trying to puzzle this out with my alt or is it going to be unpleasant to be around while I'm befriending him."

Permalink Mark Unread

"...I could probably partition the puzzle from the distaste as long as the topic stays put."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Okay, can do."

Permalink Mark Unread

"What're you going to do, invite him down by osanwë?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"They seem to be alternating meals, I was just going to wait around until he next shows up of his own accord. I could invite him, though - if I wait another week he's going to be falling apart, and I'm not sure if that's a better or worse state to have him in -"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Falling apart because...?"

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"No one to interact with. I don't think his slave counts for the purpose, not really. I actually think I might have an angle on 'if you clear the oaths, then give him some time to bounce back, then you'll have company psychologically capable of disagreeing with you which doesn't hate you.' Depending of course on whether an unbroken Findekáno will hate him."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Do you think he will?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Mine wouldn't. I don't know how different alts are."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I'm honestly not sure whether to parse the immature snide remarks on Singularity as hatred or not..."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I might need a little bit more of the picture? What snide comments, what context -"

Permalink Mark Unread

"I've got notes but they won't have exact words..." He shuffles notes around until he's got the ones that remark on it.

Permalink Mark Unread

"At a guess, not taking into account Vala-fuckery because I don't know how to account for it, this is what 'still in love, trying to correct for it' looks like it, at some point transitioning to 'sad about this relationship not being retrievable', at some point transitioning to 'painfully reevaluating a thousand happy years together in light of new evidence that we are really bad for and to each other' and I bet next time you go interact with them they'll be civil distant acquaintances with nothing to say about each other. We did all of that much more internally and much more gracefully, but Vala-fuckery and also the dubious luxury of letting off steam in a way no one in your society will recognize as such, I guess."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I recognized it and thought it was too obvious and irrelevant to bring up until, well." The "what the Halls did you just say to me" incident is notated.

Permalink Mark Unread

 

"I suppose in wartime it wouldn't have seemed very remarkable that anyone you happened to run across was straight, wouldn't have come up often enough to be an eyebrow-raising trend..."

Permalink Mark Unread

"And I wasn't relevantly reminiscing or hitting on anybody, etcetera, yeah."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I bet at any point before the end locking them in a room for two hours would have fixed it - not fixed the relationship, but fixed the snide comments - but if they had to be a secret then no one could gently tell them to take the two hours, and it wouldn't have seemed like a necessary use of time, not with the Enemy. Existing."

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"Yeah."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I wish I knew more about how much is attributable to Vala-fuckery - like, if I could treat all divergences between how they handled it and how we handled it as Doom-mediated, that'd be very informative, but I get the sense there were differences even before that."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Some from the societal homophobia... I don't know though, I got there post-Doom."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Maybe I'll go ask them when I'm getting them a therapist. ...societal homophobia alone would be sufficient to make me deeply dysfunctional in my personal life, but I wouldn't expect it to do that to him..."

Permalink Mark Unread

"To Findekáno? Why not?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"He'd be able to reason out that it was stupid? Tyelcormo'd do better than me too, same reason..."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I mean, I guess that's better than the alternative but that's not the only way for it to fuck somebody up."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Apparently not....was it a problem on Earth, too?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Yeah. I was born around the first inklings of serious shifts in mainstream opinion, died before gay people were allowed to get married in most parts of my country, my mom ran in really liberal circles and I knew she'd be fine but I was apprehensive about telling my dad..."

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Hug. "Well, when we show up in Limbo with all kinds of goodies I somehow doubt he'll take issue."

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Hug. "Oh, I mean, he knows, I told him when I was fourteen, but I was not sure in advance of the response I would get, called him from Renée's house and was prepared to cancel my trip to visit him if necessary and stuff, turned out he was fine."

Permalink Mark Unread

Fourteen - right, mortals. "Oh, good."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Yup."

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"It's not really an important problem but I wonder if there's an efficient way to shake some sense into that Arda - my alt's not going to do it -"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Never? I mean, I can understand not having prioritized it... although actually now that I think of it it's weird that you very much don't want to hide me in a belfry while you and him both were fine sneaking around with your respective Findekános..."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I mean, he will presumably get to it when it's the lowest-hanging fruit for quality of life improvements. 

 

I was saving 'having a relationship I can acknowledge in public' for 'when I'm King', or planning to."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Oh."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Doesn't change any of the calculus we discussed last time, but - yeah. I'd told myself it wasn't permanent."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Sorry."

Permalink Mark Unread

"For what, not having spent the war positioning yourself for maximally clean hands when interdimensional help showed up? For being annoyingly difficult not to crush on?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Oh, for sprouting a tail, clearly that's the thing at fault here is the tail."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Without the tail maybe I'd have been able to hold off on expressing interest until Evil Me showed up and thoroughly-if-probably-temporarily fucked up my sexuality."

Permalink Mark Unread

"You're having fucked up sexuality problems?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Thought of being anything at all like him makes my skin crawl. It's not really rational."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Well, that explains how downstairs we have been for the past few days."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Was it bothering you? I can prioritize working through it."

Permalink Mark Unread

"It's fine if you're not in the mood, I am not climbing the walls or anything, I just didn't know exactly why you hadn't been."

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"My alt's going to come downstairs and I'm going to say to him 'I see the appeal, I don't see the endgame. From your perspective I only half-have my boyfriend because he won't kneel when I snap my fingers; from my perspective you only half-have yours, because you've got half his brain locked away where he can't use it. I get it! It must have been incredibly tempting! But now you've got a chance to put him back to normal and try something different, and incidentally stop making everyone from a more advanced world appalled at you, and with all the time in the world I'm not really sure what outcome you're afraid of.'

 

And I think with enough on those lines we will get there, but. It doesn't make it very appealing to actually."

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Cam nods. "...If when you are in a better mood kneeling actually entertains you I'm not opposed in principle, just might roll my eyes at you."

Permalink Mark Unread

"When I am in a better mood we can see if that defeats the whole purpose or is incredibly endearing."

Permalink Mark Unread

Nod.

Cam refreshes the transcript.

Permalink Mark Unread

They finish out the summoning book and debate whether it'll work in Arda.

"It's a shame, I wanted to meet one."

"Of course you did."

"We might need to go get some more people after a year, if the people from the technological realms still won't do more than seethe at me - you're very good company, but -"

"Sometimes you want a challenge."

"Not how I'd have phrased it."

"Sometimes you want someone with full access to his facilities?"

"I could just release you from the oaths."

"As you see fit."

"Speak freely."

"If you did that I could osanwë them the room number. I think I would, I'm not at all sure it'd be the right decision but I think I'd do it. They'd come up here and I'd be free and then - I don't know, subjective century around people who I don't know that I'd like if I had more options and who know more than I'd like about me - I want you to be constrained by the fear I'd walk away a lot more than I actually want to walk away but as discussed you don't have any company with full access to his own head and maybe I should be trying to reconstruct what I should be wanting -"

"I will stop teasing you by suggesting it."

"Thank you."

"A year's probably also longer than I can chastely sleep in the same bed as you."

"So better have your go at getting them to do more than seethe at you soon."

"A month, I think. A month to let them settle down, not long enough for them to get impatient -"

"Humans get impatient in a month, demons might."

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"We might indeed," murmurs Cam.

Permalink Mark Unread

He's reading over his shoulder. "Are you likely to do anything about it, though?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"No, but I didn't get the impression he wanted us non-impatient because we might do something if impatient, per se..."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Maybe we'll have a discussion about the weird features of Mirror when he comes downstairs, have the 'obviously acquiring sex slaves is appealing and reasonable, but now doesn't it seem like a convenient opening to stop using mind-control on them?' talk in a couple days when I have an opening."

Permalink Mark Unread

 

"Should I maybe be out of the room when you remark on how appealing and reasonable that is, so I don't have to try to inhabit a character that lets this remark pass."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I was planning to say it over osanwë, but that also works. Could you even inhabit a character who lets that remark pass."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I'm drawing a blank on how, but I haven't given it very much thought... osanwë'll do it."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Once he's clear then I'm planning to be honest with my alt, but until he's clear that's the obvious priority."

Permalink Mark Unread

"That'll be an interesting conversation. Especially the part where we say we bugged him."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Wasn't planning to mention that right away, in case we need a way to distinguish between 'he stops being evil' and 'he pieces together how to fake it'. But yeah, eventually."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Not sure Findekáno will be happy about that either."

Permalink Mark Unread

"If he's mad at us that'd be reassuring; I'll only really be worried if he stays blandly obedient."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Fair."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I don't really know if he'll be okay. Maybe there's a dimension with really good therapy. If ripping my alt apart atom-by-atom would do it I'd have such fun with it but it's not sounding like it would."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Be a little surprising, yes."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Thank you for being reasonable and thoughtful and supportive on all of this."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Anytime."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Can you find me something to do right now-"

Permalink Mark Unread

"How active of a doing are you looking for?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Distraction until one of the two of them comes down here -"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Did I ever get you to watch Atriama?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"You haven't."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Then you will have to watch Atriama. It is my favorite thing and I named a planet after it and you have to like it or I will be annoyed." And he makes a nice big screen in front of one of the fireplace couches and snuggles Maitimo on it and queues it up.

Permalink Mark Unread

He likes it! Cam need not be annoyed. 

Permalink Mark Unread

Yay!

Permalink Mark Unread

It is Elfy levels of pretty and he ooohs and aaahs and is not appalled at the plot because his Valinor is not censorious.

 

 

And while they are eating whatever-meal-it-is after the show, the other Maitimo comes down.

 

"Hi," he chirps at him. "We have a lot of questions about differences between your world and ours, do you have a couple minutes?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Yes, sure."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Valinor was lit by glowy trees? Were they actual trees? Were they doing the work of keeping the planet warm and the plants growing, or were they decorative? Why trees?"

Permalink Mark Unread

He sends an image of the Trees. "They were doing the work; everything died when they did. Before the trees the Valar tried lamps."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Lamps. What kind of lamps, the trees are silly enough that I can't quite not imagine lava lamps..."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I think just big lights on poles. Enemy knocked them down."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Were the lights made of or powered by anything in particular?"

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"I don't know. This was Ages before Elves started existing."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Awakened beside Cuivienen, like us - wait, if the lamps had been knocked down and the Trees only covered Valinor how did you manage by Cuivienen?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Starlight. Yavanna was doing something to keep the plants sort of functional, Ulmo was doing the same for fish and other things in the water."

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"...that might explain the tech difference all by itself. No agriculture?"

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He relaxes considerably and sits himself on the nearest unoccupied couch. "Not until we got to Valinor."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Do you know what the stars are made of?"

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"Your stars are giant balls of hydrogen, we have been doing our reading. I think our stars are just illusion lights in the sky."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I wonder where they even came up with the idea of doing illusion lights in the sky that looked like that. Why stars and not - stripes. Or tiling the sky with illusory hexagons! Why would they look like stars?"

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"Before he sent the Valar down to create the world, Eru showed them a vision of it. They knew the intended result from a couple different vantage points but they had to make some things up to get things that looked like those results. If you know the sky's supposed to be starry, putting some illusions five hundred miles up springs more naturally to mind than putting flaming balls of gas unthinkable distances off."

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"Huh, I guess that does explain it. The vision did not include a sun?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"No, it did, but they couldn't figure it out so they improvised. We have a sun now."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Is it made of flaming gas?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"No. It's made of the fruit that the Trees bore as they were dying. They built a sort of chariot for it and appointed Maiar to carry it across the sky."

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"That's stupid."

Permalink Mark Unread

"If you want to go make us a proper sun you can be my guest."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I am concerned that you may have elsewise bizarro physics and trying to make you a real sun would cause problems."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Can you do clever things with scale models or will those default to working by whatever the physical laws are here?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Can't make anything magical."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I assure you I very much envy the other Ardas their physical plausibility, if not their wars; ours seems to be the least bad such a war can be."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Yeah, congratulations on that."

Permalink Mark Unread

"The fact it's fought with swords isn't me."

Permalink Mark Unread

"But the fact it's been three hundred non-escalatory years is. Did you anticipate that he was holding back, or did you have some other reason for not pressing the advantage -"

Permalink Mark Unread

"First war of the Valar and Melkor crumbled continents. I knew we'd have to invent something better than what we had, even if I didn't know how much better it'd need to be..."

Permalink Mark Unread

"How far'd you get on that?"

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"My father's dead. Curufin has Dwarven friends and they might have been able to pull it off eventually but knowing what we know now, it probably still wouldn't have been enough..."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Dwarves are neat. Mine weren't working on the war much..."

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"The locals hunted them for sport and used their blacksmiths as forced labor and cleared out a few of their cities for Elves to live in. They were very deeply unimpressed with Elves by the time we showed up. We had to be extremely patient and sensible at them for a century or so, and very conspicuously hardworking and innovative and value-creating, and then we had the privilege of talking to people who wanted to help on research for the war."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Wow. Mine were isolationists, they shot at me a lot before acknowledging that wouldn't work and talking to me."

Permalink Mark Unread

"The ones who weren't slaves were also isolationists. Like I said, it took a while."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Is everyone in your world evil."

Permalink Mark Unread

"By your standards, probably."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Dwarves sound like they could be the same..."

Permalink Mark Unread

"They killed a lot of people in varying-degrees-of-organized-and-purposeful guerrilla violence but under the circumstances I don't blame them in the slightest. Could be the same."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Closer comparison would be required."

Permalink Mark Unread

"How does your Mandos reembody people?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"When our bodies die our souls go to the Halls of Mandos - they can also just wander, but that's dangerous, Enemy could possibly scoop them up, usually you go to the Halls - and then Mandos corrects your faults and then restores you to life."

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"Corrects your faults. That's not ominous at all."

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"He also does it to the living, once a yeni, I always got around it by swearing myself straight and Eru-fearing and otherwise unobjectionable and so forth, time-limited. But that wouldn't pass when you're actually dead, he can read every thought and experience you've ever had off you."

Permalink Mark Unread

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"Which part?"

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"The mindreading part, mostly."

Permalink Mark Unread

"You can refuse Mandos' correction but then you just stay bodiless forever."

Permalink Mark Unread

"That doesn't really help."

Permalink Mark Unread

"...sorry?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"...it seems really unlikely that Mandos is taking cues on how to screw up his job from you."

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"I just mean that you react to everything about my world like it's the most appalling thing you've ever heard of and I don't really know what to do with that but I regret that it's the case."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Ah. - I've taken to calling your world Mirror to distinguish it from Singularity and Abaddon."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Works. Why?"

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"Earth media alternate universe trope, but, you know, more subtle and polite than naming the universe 'Evil'."

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"Also perhaps we can figure out how to make it stop being evil and then it'd be a shame for it to be burdened with the name."

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"That would be nice."

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"What do the Silmarils do?"

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"They're really shiny and pretty."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Yeah, that was our cover story too. A self-deprecating laugh about how obsessed Elves are with sparkly things, and you can slide a lot of strategic value in under the hood. What do they actually do."

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"My father thought he could have killed a Vala with them."

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"By what mechanism?"

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"I don't know. He's been dead for centuries."

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"And didn't tell anybody?"

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"He didn't have it worked out, would have needed some time to work with them. You could see if your versions can get anywhere, though you'd also need to acquire the Silmarils and they're in Angband."

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"Noted." Cam literally notes this.

Permalink Mark Unread

"How do all of these things you're asking about play out in your world?"

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"Valinor's a planet and Endorë's a different planet. When we die we can be reembodied from data about our brains, no wandering souls involved, and the Silmarils store that data about our brains and also ensure, I think by transmitting it interfered with, that Mandos doesn't have a copy at least of anyone on a planet with a Silmaril in orbit. No civilized nation practices slavery - do you -"

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"No. Well, conscription."

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"The planets have suns and the suns are flaming hydrogen and mysteriously Quenya is still Quenya, to the extent we can tell within Milliways."

Permalink Mark Unread

"And the Enemy's still the Enemy only worse, Findekáno said."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Yeah. Well, worse in available scope, I assume the underlying character is similar."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Yeah, I doubt yours are eviller. Does he release prisoners from Angband who think they're still in it?"

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"Singularity's can't, no way to reembody people he's uploaded - Thauron tried to rope me into doing something that might have been that but I didn't bite - don't know about Abaddon -"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Haven't heard about it but might not have, yet."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Do your orcs swear themselves to the Enemy as soon as they're old enough to talk -"

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"Most of 'em. Religious ceremony, there's less religious orcs, a lot of those were encouraged to move and then collected when they got there and killed."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I think ours just makes them all swear but there are probably more of yours."

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"Billions. They had - nice functional civilizations, before he showed up and their innocuous cultural ceremony was suddenly a chokehold on the whole population -"

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"Whole population of my world is maybe three, four million."

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"...Orcs or everybody?"

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"Everybody."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Wow. There are multiple Earth cities with more than twice the population of your entire planet."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Can you do anything about the tendency of mortals to disintegrate and die inside a century because if you can then I can have a nice large population in a few hundred more years. They're growing anyway, but they'd grow faster without a mortality rate of 'literally all of them we have no idea why'."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I mean, many people make it past a century now, but not by very much. Also I am not sure population growth in Mirror is something I wish to encourage?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"You think most peoples' lives aren't worth living?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Not the frame in which I'm inclined to consider the question."

Permalink Mark Unread

"What is?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"'Is naively extending lifespan the highest-leverage avenue by which to improve the lives of the humans who already exist in Mirror'."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I mean, no, killing the Enemy is. But I take it that was already understood to be a priority."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Yeah, but naively extending lifespan might not make second place, although whatever does make second place will probably at least have that as an incidental effect."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I could probably make more informed comments if I had a better idea of what else we can consider. If I get Curufin in here he could probably make a magic item for it with a couple decades' research, but that doesn't scale well, what other magic systems are there to play with..."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Nothing usefully portable so far."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Okay. Anything else that has surprisingly beneficial effects for the local mortals, that we wouldn't have thought of ordinarily in the course of brainstorming what to do with them..."

Permalink Mark Unread

"What's the existing situation?"

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"Uh, have their own cities and provinces for the most part because Elves make less-than-ideal neighbors - we're too picky about the architecture - most people serve seven years in the military, seventeen to twenty-four, and then retire and study or raise a family or do art or something."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Huh, I had actually expected nastier conscription arrangements than that, although I suppose I don't know what the casualty rate is..."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Right now there's only sporadic actual fighting. Six hundred dead in the whole last year. If there's an offensive into Angband it'll be ugly but we weren't going to do that until we could be reasonably sure it ends with the Enemy dead."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Pensioning your humans off at twenty-four is actually pretty good for a society at your tech level. Congratulations."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Thanks. Oh, infrastructure. Humans have higher needs than Elves for safe drinking water, and we still get disease outbreaks sometimes - what should we be reading -"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Uh -" Search search. "- nothing pre-Revelation is going to be up to the highest available standard of information, post- it's all 'have you considered summoning an angel'... Bar's recommendation would probably be better than mine."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Will summoning an angel work? It doesn't here..."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Sorry, I should have thought to warn you about that when Findekáno grabbed the book, so you didn't waste time. Summoning doesn't work in Milliways and might only work in worlds that have daeva realms associated. Only way to check if it works in your world is to try it there."

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"It's all right, it was an entertaining afternoon. Congratulations on Revelation, by the way."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Thanks."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Is there any reason I shouldn't hold my door so you can check if summoning works in Arda right now, if it'll be useful for future planning?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"General conservatism about having doors to worlds with active Melkors open more than necessary, general mistrust of you personally..."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Mistrust on the grounds that people who have any bad traits have all of them? I haven't been deceptive in the slightest."

Permalink Mark Unread

"It seems unsafe to assume anything more generous than 'few to no scruples, lots of game theory'. I would rather not find out experimentally if you think you can get somewhere interesting by stranding somebody in Mirror, say."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Okay. Can daeva be imported from worlds where they are summonable, if we can't summon natively?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"I would be moderately surprised if something would stop me from walking out somebody else's door."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Okay, that's probably enough to be going with to start. Bar, can I have breakfast and lunch for two? And a book on water treatment from some world that doesn't do it with magic we don't have and that doesn't have people dying of cholera and so on..."

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Crepes stuffed with cream cheese and smothered in powdered sugar, and fruit salad, and cocoa! Picnic basket! Something entitled Water Safety, Distilled!

Permalink Mark Unread

"Thanks! Nice meeting you properly, Cam. And, uh, me. I'm in range to hear you upstairs, think of me if you come up with more questions."

 

 

And upstairs.

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And once he's out of Elven hearing. "Well that was interesting."

Permalink Mark Unread

"What nuances am I missing by not being you?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"If he was lying I couldn't tell, is this what it's like to be most people all of the time? He was lonely, he stuck around longer than he'd intended because conversation was nice. He has a much-improved model of what we want to hear, obviously."

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Snuggles. "I usually cannot tell when people are lying unless I have independent information. Although in this case we have that and still didn't come up on any discrepancies. I did okay at partitioning, I take it."

Permalink Mark Unread

"You were great. Lovely civil conversation where the evil thing only came up where relevant. I think he was mildly surprised by the fact the conversation did not descend into yelling over his boyfriend."

Permalink Mark Unread

"What'll he derive from that...?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Uh, candidates: I talked you around to the boyfriend thing not being that big a deal - we are interested in positive-sum trade and willing to not be all 'have you considered how you not being murdered by us is positive-sum' about it - he successfully identified the things that we care about and as long as he's doing good at them we'll let him keep the boyfriend -"

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"Last one won't hold up very long if it's that."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Won't it? If he's telling the truth about everything else improving on him will be a really hard problem, and we can make it clear we disapprove and offer tech and toys as bribes for stopping but are we in fact prepared to try anything other than that."

Permalink Mark Unread

"...might depend on what we walk out of here with..."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Yeah."

Permalink Mark Unread

 

Transcript.

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They both repeat the confirmation of identity and assurance there were no oaths. "Talked to Cam and my alt. I like them."

"Of course you do, my lord."

"I was actually not expecting to like them! I was expecting them to be - aggressively hostile and vaguely inclined towards death threats and unable to talk about anything other than you, but instead we elucidated some more differences between Ardas and talked about mortals. They were pleased with my enlistment scheme, they thought it was very tidy."

"It is very tidy."

"I have a book on water treatment."

"Since when do you care about water treatment?"

"Since caring about it became the way to get along with the scary people who hate us?"

"They hate you, my lord."

"They pity you."

Sigh. "Probably."

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"Well, he's not wrong."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I'm not sure there's a helpful stance we could take towards him. 'not upset about what happened' isn't gonna work, though."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Yeah."

Permalink Mark Unread

"D'you think that suggests he told the truth about the conscription - actually, they've got to keep records on paper, we can just look -"

Permalink Mark Unread

"I'm not actually sure how to specify them and they might not count as published."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Should have asked my alt. I doubt he has fake conscription records in place he could nudge us towards, and he'd presumably know how they're specified..."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Bring it up next time?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Yeah."

 

Sigh.

Permalink Mark Unread

Snuggle.

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And they can spend the rest of the day reading quietly.

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Eventually Edie and Tyelcormo come back in.

"Wanna see a cartoon of your alt getting eaten by a squid?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Very much so. He came down and talked today and was perfectly nice if I hadn't been very sure he was being nice for reasons totally orthogonal to valuing the wellbeing of others."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Ugh. Maybe I'm lucky, unless I'm badly mistaken an evil me would still be someone I could admit to althood with without vomiting."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Wait, how so?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Well, if I ask myself 'how could my basic nature go horribly wrong' the obvious answer is 'terrorist on behalf of a cause she fiercely believes in' and while I don't condone that kind of behavior it seems a lot more tractable and less vomit-inducing than the problem you have."

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"Yeah, that sounds positively lovely. Squid?"

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Squid cartoon!

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There's a TV set up and everything!

Permalink Mark Unread

It is entertaining and vaguely cathartic.

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That's what it's intended to be!

"Do you think there's any value to be had in I and/or Tyelcormo playing Bad Cop to your Good Cop?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"I - don't know. My best guess is that he'll probably just decide he can safely ignore you if it's the case that you want him dead and he's still breathing."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Does it matter why, if for example they present the appearance of just not wanting to get kicked out and expecting Security to grab them if they stalk him upstairs...?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"That probably makes it less safe to ignore them. I'm not sure what 'him, scared for his life' does, could plausibly be bad instead of good..."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Do you think it could be useful to ostentatiously assume the difference between you two is that you care about your brothers more?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"The logic of that one is completely lost on me, actually..."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I still feel like I don't have a complete picture, he doesn't just want his boyfriends totally at his mercy he wants them submissive and half brain-dead, why does he want that, what is he getting from it?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"...would 'at his mercy' get boring after some period of time shorter than three centuries...? Or intractable?"

Permalink Mark Unread

 

"Maybe."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Or this is somehow easier for Findekáno to work with and he maneuvered into it - not sure how the details of that would work out but - or this is just an exceptional state, normally it looks different -?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"He can definitely use Findekáno for less this way, but deliberately breaking enough of your own capacity for action to be a drain on your evil boyfriend is - extreme - 

 

 - these are fairly exceptional circumstances...."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Rather. To both."

Permalink Mark Unread

"That's an avenue. If I want to use it. Could say to him 'gosh, this isn't how you prefer him, is it? You can come up with a cleaner oath, ask Nechar to clear up only and exactly whatever he got loaded down with in the aftermath of wandering into here...' I just don't know if I should -"

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"Failure mode being?"

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"I help get him under a better-designed oath?"

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"Is that a good vantage point from which to make further progress...?"

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"If I'm right about what'd be appealing, yes. But I'm reasoning off 'me, less the morals'  and I don't even know if that's the right thing to be reasoning off..."

Permalink Mark Unread

"What would you need to be surer?"

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"I would give anything for a recording of one of their normal interactions but guess which stupid fucking treelit planet hasn't invented them -"

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Snuggle. Sigh.

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Why did you think that pulling this particular kind of nasty means he doesn't care about his brothers? she asks Tyelcormo.

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Because, like, if our Maitimo wasn't remotely a good person, I'd still expect him to separately from that care about us, and keeping a slave is a shitty thing to do to everyone who cares about you even if you're not moved by the harm it does the slave - makes us all monsters, if we weren't already - 

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I hope his you isn't otherwise a monster.

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Yeah, it's a little worrying. 

Flop.

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She flops beside him and drapes a wing over him. Not planning to set him up on a blind date with one of my forks if things aren't dramatically better than I had hoped.

Permalink Mark Unread

Yeah, not a good idea. Until we know more.

Permalink Mark Unread

She'd probably yell at him for implicitly condoning his brother's actions. Not the best start.

Permalink Mark Unread

I mean, I'm gonna yell at him for that? So.

Permalink Mark Unread

Well, yes, and I am not going to set you up on a blind date with him, despite the fact that you have expressed interest in having sex with a yourself.

Permalink Mark Unread

Yes. - I mean, might just be that he trusts Maitimo and if Maitimo said 'it's consensual' and a mind-controlled Findekáno said 'it's consensual' he wasn't gonna play detective. But it might not mean that.

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If it means that it would actually be really hot to watch you two make out.

Permalink Mark Unread

Well, I'm sure there's an Arda somewhere with a version of me amenable. 

Permalink Mark Unread

Hee.

She kisses him.

So in general I am not even slightly inclined towards emotional nonmonogamy and also really not interested in sharing you but for some reason alts don't count, to that part of my brain.

Permalink Mark Unread

Good to know.

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I love you.

Permalink Mark Unread

I love you. We're going to be okay.

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Yeah. Wingsnugs.

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A while later he comes down to get food.

Permalink Mark Unread

Edie closes her eyes and buries her face against the crook of her boyfriend's neck because this seems more helpful than glaring daggers at him and more pleasant than observing him to exist.

Permalink Mark Unread

"Meal for two, please" he says to Bar, "and a couple changes of clothes, please?"

Permalink Mark Unread

Grilled veggie sandwiches on focaccia and chili and ice cream cake! What are your clothing preferences?

Permalink Mark Unread

"Can I osanwë you images or will that somehow fail to work?"

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I interface normally with most forms of non-hostile telepathy.

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So he sends some images of the sort of clothes he and Findekáno wear normally.

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And she produces a couple sets for each of them.

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"Thanks."

Permalink Mark Unread

Hey, question.

Permalink Mark Unread

Yes?

Permalink Mark Unread

Is this how you like him? Because it's not how I'd do it and I'm curious if alts are different, or if what I think'd be fun got boring...

Permalink Mark Unread

Oh, no, he's a mess right now. The way I like him normally I couldn't possibly leave him alone or let him talk, not in an environment like this.

Permalink Mark Unread

Makes more sense. Nechar can clear some but not all, too, if you've fucked him up recently you could tell him to get just that part cleared. 

Permalink Mark Unread

Forgive me if I hesitate to take your word on this -

Permalink Mark Unread

I'll try to arrange for you to find me alone so I can swear to it. Or you could go ask him, he doesn't keep thoughts private...

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Might do both, he says, and heads off to Security.

Permalink Mark Unread

It contains Nechar. "Hey," he says.

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"Hi! I look like someone you've met but you haven't met me, has all that been explained? I'm a different kind of Elf and we make oaths differently and I'm wondering if your magic works on us too."

Permalink Mark Unread

Yeah, something about an evil version of somebody yada yada. "Yeah, it's come up. I don't know if it'll work on your kind till I try it."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I can swear something safe so it won't be too much bother if it doesn't work. Until I say 'test' I swear not to say 'elephant'. Do I need to do anything, or can you check whether you can clear it?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"You don't have to do anything." Sorcerous entitlement annnnnd... "Did that do it?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"...elephant - oh, excellent. Oaths are a kind of stupid racial feature, bit dangerous, can you - just make it so we have free will, do you know?"

Permalink Mark Unread

What part of 'don't know till I try it' is unclear "Maybe? Anybody's guess."

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"Would you be willing to give it a try?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"I guess? What'm I aiming at exactly?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"So, Elves don't have free will. There's, like, a destined course of history, and we're stuck doing it, and this is related to how we can make oaths and be bound by them. I'd want to be like humans, or whatever other species don't have oaths, you could say 'I swear I'll hate him forever' and it wouldn't actually mind-control you into doing that..."

Permalink Mark Unread

"...did you just swear to hate somebody forever?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Use/mention distinction. That was safe. But, like, as you can tell, stupid and dangerous. Everyone else seems to manage fine without oaths."

Permalink Mark Unread

"No kidding. Okay..." Fix that stupid thing c'mon.

Permalink Mark Unread

"I swear not to say elephant until I say 'testing'?" He swallows a few times. "...nope, doesn't seem like it worked. No worries. Thanks for your time!"

 

 

And very quietly, once he's left the room, "elephant".

 

 Shame he doesn't yet have enough of a read on his alt to decide if he should tell him the good news.

Permalink Mark Unread

I asked if this is how he likes him, he said no but it's more manageable in difficult circumstances than a hostile prisoner. I suggested, he writes Cam, he clear up the oaths that fucked him up but only those ones, figure out how to have him secured but in one piece. ...I told him he could read Nechar's mind if he didn't trust me on Nechar's capabilities.

Permalink Mark Unread

...I don't think Nechar knows he can do that.

Permalink Mark Unread

Probably not. I doubt I gave him the idea, and Nechar might have his own magic protecting him or something, but yeah.

Permalink Mark Unread

My understanding is that Nechar would have to have at least a loose idea that he'd need to worry about it to ward it off. I'm going to go warn him.

Permalink Mark Unread

Okay. 

Permalink Mark Unread

So Cam goes around to the security office, looks as blandly as possible at Evil Maitimo as he passes him and adds bugs to the new clothes, and ducks in. He's out a minute later and plops down by his Maitimo, pensive.

Permalink Mark Unread

All okay? 

Permalink Mark Unread

Maybe.

Permalink Mark Unread

Permalink Mark Unread

Permalink Mark Unread

He pulls up the transcript. Reads it. Listens for evil Maitimo leaving the range of his hearing, several flights up.

 

 

 

"He could have lied. It could have worked - damn it -"

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"Moreover," says Cam, "it could've worked on you - if you'd asked - Nechar says you didn't but -"

Permalink Mark Unread

"But I could have convinced him it was no one else's business -"

Permalink Mark Unread

 

 

"Yeah."

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"And I am really not happy about suggesting to your evil alt that he go read a guy's mind, like..."

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"You're really not going to be happy with anything I say to him, if I'm aiming at 'get him to trust me'. There's probably a principled way to draw a distinction but I'm navigating it a bit blind. I'm sorry. If I were evil and covering for it I don't think I'd have told you..."

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"There's 'saying sketchy things with unpleasant implications' and there is 'getting an innocent bystander actually in real life mindread unbeknownst to him'."

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"I am very sure it'd have occurred to him anyway. But yeah. I'll - be more careful. He's warned now? There's - no way to warn the healer -"

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"Nechar's warned and I asked him if he can cover her too and he said he'd try and it'd probably work."

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"Thank you. I'm sorry. 

 

 

- if you think of another way to verify - there just isn't much point in me suggesting any -"

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Cam gets up and goes over to Bar. "You can hear what goes on in Security, right -"

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Yes.

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"Would you tell me, if...?"

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I do not make a habit of volunteering this sort of information but nor do I keep it confidential when asked.

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"Please tell me what my Maitimo has asked Nechar for."

And he gets a list. And he relaxes.

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Cam goes and sits by him again.

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He leans on him. Very tentatively.

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Wing goes around Maitimo. "Sorry," he murmurs. "It just kind of keeps coming up, doesn't it..."

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"Yep. It's not anywhere near the most bad thing about the situation but it's - not pleasant -"

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Snuggle. "Sorry."

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"Wouldn't want you to blindly trust me, or pretend you did while verifying in secret -"

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Nod. Squeeze.

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"If Bar didn't know I considered suggesting you fork my cousin but."

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"There are so many dubious small reasons to fork him and none that actually suffice from a perspective of not gratuitously forking people whenever it's convenient for others. No, if Bar didn't tell me I was going to ask Edie to get her chip free willed and then ask for a look at it and see if I could machine-learning a difference - she could always just reinstall if Nechar couldn't undo it, no forking needed -"

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"That'd work, almost certainly - this means we can figure out what chips without oaths look like, I guess technically we should be asking Nechar if he can also change how chips back up -"

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"Won't know till he tries it. He doesn't get any feedback from his magic at all, stuff just happens and he has to observe it the same way anyone else would."

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"Yeah, I mean, asking him to try it and checking whether it worked."

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"Yeah. Is there a way to check in here?"

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"I should ask my fathers, but I bet so, they had a way to check whether the Silmarils would be able to do it -"

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Nod.

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"I'll write them a note. And then go get some sleep, I think, clear my head a little -"

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"Sounds like a plan." Hug.

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Hug. And off upstairs. 

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Cam has a look at the transcript.

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"I had Bar make us some clothes and I had a talk with the person who can undo oaths. He can, and he can do it selectively."

"Did you have anything sworn that inconvenienced you, my lord?"

"No, I just did a test. I might eventually want you in fewer pieces."

"Mmhmm."

"Means we probably shouldn't go outside today, though, everyone may be considering themselves more than usually provoked. My alt offered to meet me somewhere so he could swear to what he said of Nechar's capabilities, I might go out and meet him."

"Mmhmm."

"No opinion?"

"No, my lord."

"Speak freely -"

"If there's a way to fix me and you might do it if I'm too boring like this I'm inclined to be very boring like this-"

"Stop speaking. Don't swear anything additional such that I have to fix you. Don't swear anything without my express leave unless I'm not available to be consulted and it'd be time sensitive; Don't swear anything that further damages your capabilities unless I'm dead, in which case you know -"

 

Silence.

"You may speak."

"Thank you, my lord."

Sigh. "What do we need to see if we can get electricity working?"

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Cam has the nasty suspicion that "speak freely" is not admirably "free" in its implications. Ugh.

He curls up on the couch and makes himself a mocha and watches the next thing on his to-watch list on the TV that is so conveniently present now.

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Shall we go upstairs? he mutters to Edie after a while. This sucks.

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Sounds good. Should we check on the engineers?

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Yeah, lets.

 

And they get up and do that.

 

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Edie does not mention Evil Maitimo to the engineers. She's pretty sure they've been warned and she really shouldn't dwell on them more than necessary.

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Plus, like, sort of dubious going around telling everyone the deeply personal details. Or something. He makes the engineers watch a movie and sing some magic songs. They are very enthusiastic about the magic songs. He and Edie are peppered with hundreds of questions they can't answer and Edie is asked to conjure lots of Mirror material.

 

And eventually they get back to work and he and Edie can nip off to their rooms.

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Edie conjures lots of Mirror material for the engineers.

And then they nip off to their rooms and she pushes him against a wall and kisses him more thoroughly than she would have in the semi-public of the bar.

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"Love you," he gasps. "Sorry - not better timing - love you so much -"

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"What about the timing?" she murmurs, nipping his jaw.

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"Would've preferred it come up some time when we weren't dealing with - who were we dealing with again?"

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"Ah. When I said it." In lieu of answering the question she starts petting his hair.

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Then he definitely will not remember what they were dealing with.

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You're so lovely.

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You too. Glad I get to - deal with all these big things - with you.

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Better than not.

She conjures a small knife and starts cutting his clothes off him.

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Oooooh.

 

He holds very still except for watching her move, adoringly.

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And then she is done with that and she takes his face in both hands and kisses him again.

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Mmmmmm.

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Hair unbraiding?

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What a good idea.

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I wonder how things would have happened if I didn't already coincidentally make a habit of keeping my hair braided.

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Maitimo'd probably have mentioned it was a thing here.

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I wonder how he'd have reacted if I'd fixed it the fast way by cutting my hair off and making new hair already braided.

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I am sure he'd have concealed his horror.

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That'd be horrific?

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In our galactic rights treaties it's listed as a form of torture, cutting peoples' hair...

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Huh. Okay. So if I were going to suggest growing my hair to legitimately ridiculous lengths and then cutting most of it off afterwards because I don't actually want to go around with hair that long the latter part would be more unpleasant than the former was sexy?

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I wouldn't want to watch, but you can do whatever you want to yourself.

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Well, the growing-the-hair-out would be for your benefit in the first place, so...

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Maybe give me some time to get used to the idea.

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Okay.

Meanwhile, kisses and hairpetting.

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And letting them forget the world outside.

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I'll meet you at the fourth floor stairwell, he tells the other Maitimo a few hours later.

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So, he says to Cam, I told him I'd swear to the things I said over osanwë; going to meet him and do that, I guess. I can try to feel out whether he thinks I can swear to things, but I don't think I'll come away very certain.

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Keep me posted.

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And he meets him at the stairs. "Can Nechar do anything about your kind of Elf?"

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"Yep. It's a good solution, if I can decide on a set of oaths that doesn't either modify his preferences, handicap him, constrain him from doing anything at all to the point where he dies on me in a month, or let him orchestrate overthrowing me with the demons helping - yours would help?"

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"Yes. Everyone'll help. Where we're coming from it's not the sort of thing you ever ever overlook."

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"That's sort of how we feel about making and following through on deals with the Enemy."

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"Then it's a good thing Cam's not vying for the approval of your populace, isn't it. Look, if half of what you told us last time was true, you're doing a good job. I want to help you stay in power. But I literally cannot describe how far you're handicapping me with the sex slave thing."

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"I swear everything I told you was true and that there were no omissions I'd expect to change your assessment on that front."

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"Thank you. Cam wanted to verify it by asking Bar for your conscription records and internal documentation and so forth, too, can you help us find that?"

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"If my word's not enough you can suggest another phrasing, but sure -" and he names the people who'd be in charge of those records and the general structure of the record-keeping system - "and my notes on our conversations, too, if Bar has those..." and some dates and descriptions. 

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"Thanks. If you have other admirable humanitarian projects in the works it'd be good to know about them too, same reason, but I am really not going to get anywhere as long as you're keeping him."

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"Was this meeting to discuss a safer set of oaths, or to try to talk me out of it?"

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"Safer set of oaths. But I want to be honest with you about the end state, I don't want you to think that if we find a safe, airtight, stable wording then I'll be able to eventually talk my people around, because I won't. Eventually you're going to have to figure out how to hold onto him without any coercion."

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"The thing is that 'airtight' and 'not torturous for him' trade off pretty strongly, if I'm not handicapping or altering him."

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"What about light constraints conditional on you being, to his knowledge, alive and free and able to accurately represent what you want, and then something sufficiently deterring in place otherwise -"

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"Can I have an oath for you that -"

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"I swear that I like you and want to find a way to fix this without hurting you. I swear that as far as I know you're safe here and there are no efforts in place to change the situation except by convincing you to stop doing it. I swear that I'm making suggestions with the intent of finding a solution that has Findekáno in one piece and not miserable, that I'm not deliberately introducing loopholes that'll let him go, and that the avenue by which I intend to make you let him go is 'giving you the information I have such that it seems like the obvious best thing to do, and then helping you figure out how to do it and get as much as you can of what you want'."

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"Okay. Problem with that approach is that if I die of or am incapacitated by something unrelated to this mess, he's stuck forever."

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"Is there anyone you'd trust to determine whether your death was undeterrable by any conceivable set of oaths and if so to let Nechar clear his up and let him go?"

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"My brothers, but you could feed them information very selectively."

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"What happens to him right now if you die of some exotic world's flu?"

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"Swears to take my ends as his own."

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"Can you at least make it 'swears to conduct a sincere and very careful examination of the death and to take your ends as his own if he and anyone he enlists in the investigation is not wholly satisfied that it was undeterrable -"

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"Too many clever people with rules I don't know, here. The only safe thing is deterring a result. I don't like it either. I didn't use it at home."

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"So if you went for light orders except in the case of your death and that if you die he'd still be better off."

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"Yes. I'll consider it."

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"Thanks. Let me know if you need anything."

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"I will."

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And he comes downstairs. "Hey," he says to Cam. "All out loud, you have the transcript."

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Cam catches up. Almost doesn't flinch, recovers promptly. "Such a creep," he mutters.

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"Yeah." Sigh.

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"It's interesting how he's parsing everybody here but him and Findekáno as 'yours'."

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"And probably useful, so I haven't disabused him of the notion. He must realize Nechar's not or else think I'm really on his side, since if I had the influence with him I could just get the oaths cleared myself..."

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"Point, yeah." Anything new in the transcript, is he running back to tell Findekáno all about it...?

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Not yet. 

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"Did we in fact want to take a look at the conscription records?"

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"May as well." Cam conjures them up.

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They are not obviously inconsistent with his claims. Humans who serve in the military retire at 24. Internal documents suggest this is because population growth was a goal and pensions are tied to family size for the same reason, and that they've experimented with which other policies affect the population growth rate, and that it's not a pleasant society to be a disabled human in, but if he hadn't known his alt was evil he wouldn't have found him so from this, just - very focused on winning the war.

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"...remains impressive for the tech level."

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"Yeah. He's competent. How hard he'd be to improve on still mostly depends on what we have to play with."

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"Yeah." Sigh.

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"I'm debating whether I should get my chip changed so I can swear falsely."

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"When would you expect to need that?"

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"If he asks for anything when 'swearing to general aligned intentions' isn't good enough - if there is a loophole I spot and he doesn't, for instance, I wasn't planning to tell him..."

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"The possibility's on his radar, though."

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"Yeah. Might be wiser to encourage people to get rid of oaths but keep it myself so I can continue promising I'm not secretly a rapist..."

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"I mean, assuming nothing happens to retroactively call into question your previous protestations I don't expect you to suddenly start..."

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"You're not the only person who's going to want assurance, and saying I swore it to you doesn't do anything..."

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"...and I can't swear that you said it, right."

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"No one's going to find it implausible I convinced you to lie for me. They could all go bother my cousin but that's a little unfair to him, and also doesn't fully lay the question to rest - I should probably keep it -" 

Sigh.

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Hug?

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Hug.

 



It is a week before he is less mopey and disinclined to spend all of his time with Cam downstairs. It is two days after that before Edie and Tyelcormo can be located to supervise the Bar. But then they can go up to Cam's room and kiss without him thinking immediately of the evil alt.

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Yay, kisses without thinking about the evil alt!

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"Silly to say 'missed you' when I spent most of the time cuddling with you but -"

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"I get it. I missed you too."

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There should be less clothes. He feels awkward about playing with Cam's hair, because evil alt, and then decides that is ridiculous and does it anyway, and neck kisses have no evil alt implications at all.

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Cam's hair is like this because he likes it that way! Cam's neck is like this because he's very lucky! It is all lovely and not horrible at all.

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Yes. Yes, it is.

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Is Maitimo in a good enough mood that Cam should try kneeling at him, because in a sufficiently not-thinking-about-the-evil-alt context that actually sounds hilarious.

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He will attempt to not think about the evil alt, because yes, yes, it does. 

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Cam is totally capable of kneeling. ...He is not capable of doing this without having to suppress laughter, but he can smirk and look up at Maitimo and wag his tail.

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This is hilarious and he will get adorably flustered and distracted and stare at the tail quite flushed and giggling hopelessly for several minutes!

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It is so satisfying to get Cam to smile! And to make him happy! And to have sex that neither party has been horribly coerced into! And to lie in bed afterwards warm and being wing-snuggled and ask 'are you going to giggle even harder when I am emperor of the multiverse?'

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"Emperors of multiverses aren't inherently funny. What's funny is - costless signaling, I guess? But maybe." Mmmmmsnuggles.

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Mmmmmsnuggles. "Glad it's costless. 's adorable. You're adorable."

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"You're adorable."

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"No, no, that can't be, emperors of the mutliverse are not supposed to be adorable. I am very imposing." He rolls over to kiss him.

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Kiss! "You can't be adorably imposing? Imposingly adorable? Adored for the manner in which you impose? Impose by means of adorability?"

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"I love you," he says, and kisses him.

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Mmmmmkisses!

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And sleep, since he does need that occasionally no matter how many blessings he stacks.

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Cam doesn't, but it's nice every now and then, passes the time.

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And when they wake up there are not yet impatient messages from Edie and Tyelcormo so they can snuggle and talk more.

 

"Was illegal to touch daeva, back home. I knew the principles of how the indestructibility works but wasn't sure if you'd feel - snuggly -"

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"'Course I do. Illegal, really? I guess I can see why someone would do that but not all daeva/summoner sex is horrifying... although it can get frustrating bound and gagged..."

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"Wait, what?"

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"The story of the booty call summoner! Are you going to get adorably jealous over it."

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"....maybe just a little..."

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"Awww." Cam pecks the end of his nose. "This woman summoned me to make her a house, she wanted to be well off the grid, needed it fancy and tricked out and away from everything. I made her house and got a media list for my trouble and then before she dismissed me she looked me up and down and said if she summoned me specifically again it'd be to have sex with me. She did. I showed up. I'm pretty sure she got how-to-have-sex-with-a-demon instructions off the internet or something."

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He laughs. "What does a binding for safe daeva sex look like?"

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"I don't know because she wasn't using one! And I couldn't point out the loopholes in any way that wouldn't have involved using them because she did the gag correctly! I have worried about her occasionally since, she stopped drawing me up after a few weeks and I don't know if she got a human boyfriend or got bored or decided to go for variety with somebody who'd..." He shakes his head.

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Hug. All things considered he is not very jealous. "Your home world's gag thing is so weird. ....I bet there are accurate, and varying degrees of kinky, instructions for that on Endorë, they would have had nice daeva to point out loopholes..."

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Snuggle. "I bet. They're probably very well-crafted. Does it sound fun?"

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The points of his ears might go slightly red. "Doesn't make any sense for your summoner to be someone who spends significant time in your vicinity, particularly doesn't make sense for it to be me."

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Awww earblush. Cam nibbles on an earblush. "Why not?"

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"If there's a calamity that kills everyone on a planet or in a dimension it'd be deeply unfortunate if it also dismissed you and you couldn't do anything mitigating. And people might want you gone badly enough to shoot your summoner."

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"...yeah, that makes sense. So it'd have to be only an occasional thing if you wanted to play with it."

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"And you would find this hilarious?"

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"Probably depends on the details but likely."

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"Then maybe very occasionally. ....ideally we obviate the problem by fetching you directly from Hell with good interdimensional transit, then there's no squishy people in the way..."

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Kiss. "Yep."

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It is another week after that before Midnight settles on less mind-controlling oaths for his boyfriend. If he dies Findekáno is to self-destruct; if he is held prisoner or incapacitated or put in extreme time dilation or similar Findekáno is to not move from the spot except to render aid if appropriate; Findekáno is to come when asked and not venture outside osanwë range or otherwise endeavor to make himself unreachable and under no circumstances attempt to harm either himself or Maitimo. And no asking anyone to remove this or giving consent to procedures that would remove it or indicating that his non-consenting to removal is the result of an oath. Maitimo helps his alt with wording.

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It's sort of better than the previous state of affairs as long as nothing happens to Midnight. (Can they admit that they know he decided to call himself Midnight yet?)

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He is happy to tell them he chose that name. He doesn't seem to have run across the concept of bugging yet. He accompanies Findekáno to talk with Nechar.

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He would like all his oaths removed except the ones he swore today, but it's very important those stay. Can Nechar do that?

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"'Today' is kinda a weird concept in Milliways," says Nechar. "Can you specify it some other way?"

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"Since I woke up?"

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"Yeah, I can aim like that." Pause. "There you go."

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And a lot of pieces pop back into place and-

-two Maitimos but constrained by PR concerns -

- might get let go entirely if Maitimo thinks he can be won back, but he's not going to be able to lie about that -

 

 

"Thank you very much. I think I'm going to go outside, I haven't been out since the first day."

And over osanwë, Edie?

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Yes?

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A couple questions, though keeping in mind Maitimo might learn everything you tell me: do you have a way to knock Maitimo unconscious without harming him, just - asleep - and what do you need to target that-

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Yes. And his location relative to me.

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Can looking through my eyes give you that, or do you need to be present.

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I've actually never tried that. I could try--I could test it with Tyelcormo, first, if that would be safer.

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He won't try to stop you? I want both Maitimos out, yours helped mine come up with a safer set of oaths and has made a lot of decisions that are most flatteringly interpreted as mistakes but that helped Midnight tremendously.

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Tyelcormo would unless I am badly mistaken be happy to help me test a thing about the interaction between my powers and osanwe. I can knock both of them out, that's fine.

 

To Tyelcormo: Hey, do you know if you can make something somewhere you don't know where it is if someone whose eyes you're borrowing can see it?

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Yeah, that works.

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Tyelcormo says that works. Is it important to you that both Maitimos be rendered unconscious simultaneously, because that'll be trickier to pull off.

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No - I don't even think it'll be a surprise, honestly- I just need space to think and conversations they're not listening to -

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Okay. Tell me when, or just continually send me your visual channel and I'll do it when you next see him or something.

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I'm outside. By the lake. I can see them both from here - 

And he sends that -

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Oh well if he can see both Maitimos this'll be easy.

They both fall over unconscious.

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"- Maitimo?" Cam fails entirely to catch him, stumbles, at least manages to get a pillow under him before he hits the floor.

(And Nechar frowns and now Edie is in a cell and cannot make any things that are not in it with her.)

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And he's stuck to the spot, but that's okay. Thank you, he says to Edie.

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You're welcome.

Security cell, huh. Well, that was predictable. Oh well.

She conjures a note with the appropriate heading for Cam to get it and, Sorry, Findekano needed both of them unconscious in order to get his brain in order or something, I used a temporary sedative, he'll be fine.

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And he can see Cam panicking so he says that was me, he'll be fine.

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What did you do?

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I asked Edie if she could knock them out without hurting them, she said yes, I asked her to. The rule is I can't move if mine is incapacitated, but I don't need to move, just to have conversations that can't be being managed in real time by one of them...

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Okay.

And Cam sits on the floor by his Maitimo, wings mantled over his shoulders.

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And he sits down and looks at the sky and works his way through the last few weeks with the benefit of a brain not sworn not to think about betraying his King. And says to Edie after a while have people decided what to tell me off what they're worried he'll learn, or has it been vaguely random, do you know...

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I don't think anyone's told you anything it would be really bad for him to find out.

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Are there things like that, how sure are you that yours hasn't told him, how likely am I to run across them if aggressively poking around...

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...I don't know how likely you are to find them but I am confident ours hasn't told yours anything he would then have tried to hide from us.

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Why are you sure of that?

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I don't know that we want yours to know the answer to that question but if you tell me to answer it anyway I will.

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I don't know if that's a reasonable risk to take. The person without the information is not the one who should be making those calls but I don't yet know enough to just trust you - to care about what I care about or to be equipped to handle this sort of situation. 

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If your Maitimo found out it might make us less effective at helping you in the future; if you found out it might make you more effective at helping yourself in the present.

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I don't really expect you to be able to help me at all, except by stopping the Enemy.

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We're more optimistic than you on that front but prioritizing our helping you over you helping you would be--patronizing. At best.

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I would like to know why you think you can trust yours, because the stakes there are much higher than anything else.

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He swore that he did not have the same problematic inclinations as yours--rape straight-up doesn't appeal to him--and that he's pretending to condone yours's actions in the hopes of using rapport to maneuver him into letting you go.

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He swore to mine that he liked him and wanted him to stay in power and was helping him as far as he could given your societal taboo in slavery.

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It is possible he was using temporary mind-altering oaths to be able to do that or in some other way that is less damning than it sounds but I shall have some very pointed questions to ask him when he wakes up.

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It is also possible he had used temporary mind-altering oaths to swear he found this kind of arrangement unappealing.

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Yes, that did occur to me.

 

I do think even if he would naively be on yours's side he values a continued good relationship with at least his brother more than he values yours keeping you against your will and understands that he cannot have both of those things. Tyelcormo is strongly in favor of killing yours if that's what it takes.

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That will not help at all. I will have a civil war on my hands.

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Yes, and that's why he's still alive. My point there was to illustrate 'Tyelcormo will not stand for this shit,' not 'we are currently in danger of this specific thing happening right now.'

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I am less worried about how he conducts his personal life and more worried about how he'd run the empire he plans to acquire.

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He does have us looking over his shoulders kind of a lot on that too but honestly I don't think I have much to say about that without waking him up and asking him, which even if you wanted to wouldn't be possible for several hours.

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Okay. Are there other people I should be talking to - is there anyone here who isn't a Feanorian or dating one...

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Well, I could finally open the door long enough to fetch my twin sister, but I'm not sure that nets you much objectivity compared to talking to me...I could fork the fork of me who isn't dating Tyelcormo...

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I'll let you know if that seems like it would help. Sigh. Thanks.

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I'm sorry I can't do more.

 

...We were considering forking our Findekano to consult on your situation; the situation never quite seemed to justify doing it without asking him first...

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That would be really useful. There's no way to ask him?

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He's on a different ship and we're mid-leap.

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I don't think I have the context to evaluate that but okay. I really do appreciate your help.

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Your situation is so far beyond not okay I really can't describe its level of messed-up without using profanity.

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He's got some issues. Please don't worry about me, I'm doing fine.

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Right. Anyway. So regardless of whether or not I should, I can't fork your alt until I'm out of this cell.

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When will that be?

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Not sure. Lemme ask.

 

"Hey, how long am I in here for?"

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"Eight hours per victim followed by a stern talking-to and if you don't seem contrite enough while sternly talked to there's some extra."

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"...Okay."

 

She relays this to Findekano.

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I apologize for getting you in trouble.

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Well worth it.

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Will you be out before or after they wake up?

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Before, unless osanwe doesn't sync us or we stop talking to each other and the time dilation fucks with us.

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Cam is just kneeling next to his Maitimo. How likely is it that he has orders to do that, compared to that that's just how he worries?

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Uh, if our Maitimo is in fact evil I'm pretty sure Cam's been deceived about it; I'm not sure by what mechanism you expect him to have been ordered--he didn't chip himself like I did, he can't swear oaths...

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How do you know that?

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She tries conjuring Cam's chip. Doesn't work. Well, if I wasn't sure before I am now; I tried conjuring his chip and it didn't go.

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Our world also has other avenues of magic mind control.

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Considering what he had to do to you to keep you here and that I met Cam before Maitimo did I'm pretty sure I would have noticed something if he suddenly started being mind-controlled.

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Okay. Is he going to be kneeling at Maitimo's side for the next eight hours and should I do something about that.

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Um...probably not? Maybe? I don't know. My osanwe isn't compatible with him and he doesn't have any so I can't talk to him if he isn't making my notes.

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I would be happy to convey a message.

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I'm trying to think of something to say that doesn't come off as insincere, defensive or insensitive...

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You know him better than I do.

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This is true. Okay, can you tell him--I'm sorry I had to do that without warning him, I'm going to be in a Security cell for the next so long, are you going to keep kneeling that whole time.

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Cam? Edie asked me to relay a message, the content of which was "I'm sorry I had to do that without warning him, I'm going to be in a Security cell for the next so long, are you going to keep kneeling that whole time".

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Cam picks up his computer - sees Edie's message - and writes a note: If he's getting something out of the Maitimos being unconscious he may as well have line of sight to the both of them so they don't wake up in four subjective minutes or something and I don't want to leave mine unattended and knocked out while this is happening.

And to Findekáno, Edie can check her messages.

And he pointedly switches to sitting cross-legged.

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He says you can check your messages, and he sat down.

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She checks her messages.

She writes him another note.

I really do wish it hadn't been necessary but giving Findekano things he has the leeway to ask for that his Maitimo wouldn't like is really important.

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I believe it entirely. I'm not mad at him. I'm also not going to just sort of wander off and leave my boyfriend on the floor, what was the kneeling remark about?

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He's not convinced our Maitimo isn't evil and suspected you might have been ordered to do that somehow.

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Well, if he wants me to do the Macarena to demonstrate that I don't have to kneel I can look up the steps but I'm not really in the mood.

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Apparently ours swore to his that he liked him and wanted him to stay in power, so he has good reason not to trust him.

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Yeah I had that entire conversation and I could put it in slightly more context but I'm not sure contextualizing it for Findekáno and by extension Midnight is a great idea.

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Can I have the context? I won't tell him without your say-so.

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Maitimo likes people by default. Midnight'd notice - and react badly - if he were an exception and it wouldn't be productive. Maitimo can partition liking people and pretty much all the normal consequences of liking people as necessary. And our information on what Midnight's actual governance looks like isn't actually that unfavorable - this is a society where the tech level is 'swords' that routinely generously pensions off human war vets with a not-too-bad casualty rate at age 24, etc. - and we don't currently strongly expect to be able to sail in with a better idea and hold a clean coup.

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Okay. It's still kind of weird that he likes him, then, but not in a way I have any actual objection to.

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Yep.

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I did tell Findekano that ours had sworn oaths to the effect of 'faking' and 'does not find rape appealing' on the grounds that this seemed like a better shot than we were going to get ourselves and it was important for him to have more of an idea on how to help himself than for us to be able to swoop in as the cavalry.

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We're not being very effective cavalry, I'll give you that.

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Yeah that was a strong factor in the decision.

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I would love to consult mine on this but apparently his being unconscious is serving a functional purpose, so.

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Yeah.

 

He wanted to talk to someone not a Feanorian or dating one and I said I could get around to bringing my sister in or fork in a me off Ada who isn't dating Tyelcormo but obviously these weren't great improvements so I brought up that we have been periodically deciding it wasn't worth it to fork his alt without his consent.

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There's the research teams resurrected in from Singularity.

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I actually forgot about them.

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They exist! I'll send you lists, although I don't know if he can osanwë them by name or what. He sends them.

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I'm not sure they'll be good enough either, given that they were handpicked by a Maitimo, but they'll probably be an improvement on the available selection.

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Yeah. And there's Bar, and Nechar, both of whom are people who are not Fëanorians or dating same.

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Oh, that's true. Although I think Nechar is complicated for unrelated reasons.

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A bit.

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Bar's probably okay though. And theoretically he could talk to infirmary lady except for the part where she's so--

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She's very so. I mean, he could talk to her anyway, but it doesn't seem likely to help.

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Yeah. Poor infirmary lady.

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Yep.

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Okay, she tells Findekano, we actually have some people resurrected in from Singularity that are neither Feanorians nor dating same; they were on the other hand chosen off a list by a Maitimo. Also there is Bar, and Nechar who is undoubtedly complicated for other reasons, and the nice lady in the infirmary who has something seriously damaged in her mind.

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Thank you I appreciate it. May I talk to Cam or had I better not?

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I don't see any reason why you shouldn't. Or why I would be able to dispense or withhold permission to do so.

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If he's liable either to be angry with me or to be under orders that'd make it a farce, then I would want to know that.

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Oh, that makes sense. No to both.

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Alright. Thanks. Is there a standard way to reach out to these people, or will I need to wait until I can move again - where I'm from it's very rude to interrupt someone from a distance with osanwë -

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Not that I know of. Cam might.

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Alright, thanks. 

 

And to Cam, is this an acceptable time to talk?

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Yeah.

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I told Edie that I'm struggling with who I should be talking with. I am not at all equipped to evaluate right now if staying with Midnight and keeping him in check is the most important thing I could be doing. It depends on lots of things that I take it I shouldn't know because he shouldn't know them. It depends in particular on whether your Maitimo is the same and hiding it or not, and I take it that the evidence he's not is all itself things I shouldn't know because Midnight shouldn't know them.

 

So generally I'd ask someone I trust to go learn all the things I shouldn't and then tell me the answer. Inconveniently, there's no one I trust.

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Well... I'm sorry about that.

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It doesn't seem like the kind of question Bar's equipped to answer, and I can't see her answers from here anyway, and I should probably decide before the Maitimos are back in the picture, they'll be much better at telling if I'm lying to them once they have a baseline to work off so I need everything important settled before they have such a baseline.

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You should be able to osanwë with Bar, she just seems to prefer napkins by default. Is there by any chance some dramatic display of not being in my boyfriend's thrall I could make that would be convincing. Would you like me to draw embarrassing pictures on his face or something.

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I'm trying to distinguish between 'you two both share values sufficiently distant from mine that I can't export my decisionmaking to you', 'you two both share values sufficiently similar to mine that I could export my decisionmaking but I'm not a particularly valuable asset in those games so if I do that I can expect the right decisions to be made but things to basically continue sucking, and should work on not feeling personally let down by this', 'you share values sufficiently similar to mine I could export my decisionmaking, Maitimo's deceiving you', and 'Maitimo partnered with Sauron on a piece of jewelry with mind-control powers, or something in that vein'.

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Of course you also have a Sauron, the tableau would be insufficiently horrendous without a Sauron... I'm not taking point on the 'games' because interpersonal finagling is not my strong point to begin with and even if it were I have an enormous emotional handicap in play.

I want you to be okay.

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I'm fine. Edie doesn't believe me on that either. It's kind of a hard reset, coming out from under that many oaths, and he wouldn't actually find me interesting if I couldn't keep up with him, so he keeps me that way. It is perfectly plausible to me that the best play here is 'signal amenability to being won back once released, which I can't do without sincerely forming that intent because Maitimo, get released, get won back, nudge him patiently into being a great King and mediocre person', and if it is, I will be - vaguely relieved, actually, probably, I am more irreplaceable at that than at anything else. In particular if you have other versions of me. That'd be fine, if it's the answer, I just need to know before there are Maitimos up and about to infer whether it'll work.

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If that's actually a thing you can do and nothing walks in the door pre-endgame that magically solves everything better than that -

- yeah, sounds about right -

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Thanks.

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You're welcome.

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And he lies down on the grass and sings and looks at the sky until Edie's time is up.

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After Edie has been in her cell for sixteen hours, eight per victim, Nechar gets up from his desk and wanders over. "Do not nonconsensually drug people," he says. "Unless it's a designated special occasion for that of some kind it falls under 'violence'. Doesn't count if you get clever with not being in the bar at the time as long as people who expected to be safe there are the ones falling over. Do it again and I throw you out. Clear?"

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"...In my defense I wasn't specifically avoiding being in the Bar at the time, I just didn't happen to be, I wasn't being clever, and I accept my sentence as a fair and logical consequence of the action. Clear."

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"Right then. Shoo." The forcefieldy thing between her and the rest of the office disappears.

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She shoos.

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Cam's still sitting on the floor by his unconscious boyfriend, now reading.

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"Hi, I'm out. You doing okay?"

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"Yeah."

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"If we want to refresh the dose to give Findekano more time to think we have to carry them upstairs first."

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"I can't carry him, I'd have to do something elaborate to get him up the stairs. And time might dilate on us anyway."

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"We're demons, I'm sure we can work something out."

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"Yes, we can, and as soon as we're not interacting with Findekáno anymore and he can't see us we can spend hours while he spends seconds, and are you in fact even allowed to drag your unconscious drugged victims out of the main bar in order to re-dose them, that seems like it might be rulebreaking behavior."

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"Well, I don't see any reason why you shouldn't be allowed to drag your unconscious drugged boyfriend anywhere. Anyway I'm planning to check with Findekano the exact contents of the oath that mean he's just standing there, see if I can carry him upstairs too."

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"Yeah, fine. Up me and my unconscious boyfriend go. Please do not leave Midnight alone in here, he might wake up and go for the door and complicate the situation yet further."

Cam makes a float-chair and hauls his Maitimo into it and nudges it stairsward and brings him to his room.

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"I won't."

Findekano, do the terms of your oath allow me to physically carry you anywhere.

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Can't move under my own volition, can't ask you to take me somewhere, but nothing will happen to me from the oath if you decided to do that.

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Okay. Does it give you leeway to tell people I'm not kidnapping you and your Maitimo if Security wants to know?

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Yep. Though you are kidnapping Maitimo, aren't you?

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I mean, I really don't think his location is likely to be comparatively significant in terms of things done to him nonconsensually; I'm not planning to imprison him past when he wakes up and I wasn't even particularly planning to take him somewhere I'd have more of an advantage than normal or anything.

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I have no objections. He'll be fine. We can maybe experiment with painkillers to see whether when he retaliates for it I can be satisfactory without actually being in pain.

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Will that get you imprisoned again?

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Consensual experiments are not going to get me imprisoned. I am disgusted by your Maitimo's projected behavior.

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...how were you assuming he'd get information, such that you didn't want to share it with me-

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I was assuming, like, horribly coercive use of oaths, not physical violence. Not that horribly coercive oaths aren't worse than violence but I already knew about the oaths.

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I'm currently under very light oaths. He would have to coerce me into new ones somehow.

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Oh. Well. I don't know what oaths you're under.

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Loosely, if he dies self-destruct; if he is held prisoner or incapacitated or similar don't move; come when asked and don't venture outside osanwë range or otherwise endeavor to be unreachable and don't harm either myself or him. 

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Huh. Okay. So in a hypothetical situation completely divorced from this actual one where you can't actively consent to being dragged places, how do you feel about float-chairs? She bounces him the idea.

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What a clever idea.

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Awesome. Float chairs for conscious Findekano and unconscious Maitimo.

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And they go upstairs. And he sends messages to the Singularity research teams, carefully, because he's not sure there's anything it's useful to ask them, and he watches a few movies, and sings a little more, and - Cam'll be upset if you drug his again, yes?

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If it's important to you I think he won't object to drugging happening but might want to do it himself.

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Cam?

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Yes?

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I want more time, and am going to ask Edie to dose this one again - want to experiment with painkillers, want to get an answer from the research teams, want to make up my mind about whether to ask Edie for my Singularity alternate and do that if I decide to. I am guessing you'd prefer we leave yours alone. Is there a way to make sure he's not coaching and/or corresponding with everyone else, beyond keeping him asleep -

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Bar knows pharmacology, she can probably tell you whatever you want to know about painkillers.

There are substances that block chip osanwë, if you'll take my word for it that I've got my room lined with 'em I can do that.

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I would otherwise have to take your word for it that he was still sleeping, so that's fine. ...will you have to distract him into staying in the room -

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I'm not totally clear how the Elf imprisonment thing works and I'm not going to forcibly keep him cooped up if it kicks in however time-dilated we may be relative to you, but I don't think he'll actually object to hanging out in here barring that, if that's what you need. I will let you know before he leaves.

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Thank you.

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You're welcome. Gonna line the room now, see if magic osanwë goes through.

He puts up easy-to-uninstall sheets of blocking material.

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Testing?

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I hear you. Chip kind must be different.

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Well, the only people he can communicate with if the chip kind's blocked are me and his sleeping alt, so I don't think we'll have a problem. Thank you. Tell him that if he's not secretly evil and just doing a convincing impression then I appreciate it but would be spared a lot of heartache over the future of the multiverse if he could find some way to prove this.

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I'll pass it on.

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And a little while later he wakes up and blinks confusedly at the ceiling and then sits up to check if he is clothed and look at Cam and - "what happened, is everyone all right -"

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"Everyone's - okay. Findekáno got Edie to knock out you and Midnight so he could have some time to think. Edie spent a while in lockup over it, I sat with you being in line of sight of Findekáno so he'd get the full duration of time instead of something stupidly dilated, she's out now, they're keeping Midnight unconscious, for Findekáno's comfort I have lined the room with chip-osanwë-blocking material but you can be awake."

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"Well. I think that's a marked improvement over obedient. Annoyingly I will no longer be able to promise there are no discontinuities in my memory during which I could have gotten up to suspect shenanigans. What's Findekáno thinking about?"

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Cam pulls up his notes on the conversations he had with Edie and Findekáno, complete with the bit about Maitimo proving he's not evil if possible. "I can vouch for your being knocked out the whole time if that'll ever close the gap."

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"If we assume that Midnight can't coerce information out of him anymore, which might be a safe assumption, the current oaths don't give him an obvious avenue, then I could just explain everything and he'll disapprove but he'll agree I'm not evil. If we can't assume that, it's better for him to believe I am working with Midnight because then Midnight'll pick up on that, find it more likely, and work with me.

 

Except that's putting 'Midnight lets him go' as the highest priority and it sounds like it isn't his -

 

We could just invent a time machine and roll back their entire stupid fucking planet to the moment the Valar decided to light it with Trees..."

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"Before that it was lamps, lamps are also stupid... Magic osanwë still works through the stuff so we can talk to him if there's a good way to find out whatever information would be useful to steer."

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"I mean, if he's a functional Findekáno, he wants to know how much saving from themselves his cousins are going to require in order to be assets to the world, and how much it's going to hurt him to do it, and whether there's anyone else who can."

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"Do you know the answers?"

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"I was notably more - sensible, careful, wise - when I was on the same page as mine but he's not literally the only person who can do it and when our relationship stopped being good for us we did not try prolonging it for the sake of the world, and I think that was right...and the cost of nudging me along is a lot lower than the cost of nudging Midnight along, I like to think I am also sometimes pleasant to be around...I don't know if in his world he's the literal only person who can do it. I know he can. And I know it will hurt him a lot."

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Hug?

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Hug. "Can I blame the moping-over-my-ex on the drugs or are they not that kind of drugs."

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"I think they're not that kind of drugs."

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"Sssshhh. Every annoying thing I do for the next several weeks is due to the drugs."

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"Ah, my mistake, I don't know very much about Elf pharmaceuticals."

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"Is it going to be awkward for you, if Mirror's Findekáno decides to fork mine?"

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"I don't know, is it? Is he gonna make it weird? Are you?"

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"No and no, we get along very well, but it sounded like you and Singularity's parted on less than ideal terms."

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"I'm not expecting I will be best friends with him but I also don't really anticipate a need to socialize with him a whole lot..."

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"Yeah, I'm guessing he will size up whether everything is on the level, tell his alt so, and then join an engineering team or get really into magic music composition if it works outside Mirror."

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Nod. "Sounds fine."

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"So are you under instructions to keep me here..."

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"I told him I was not going to keep you in here forcibly but I'd let him know before you left if you were going to do that."

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"No, no, I'm very amenable to being kept here. I was merely planning to demand to be entertained."

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"I wasn't planning to stare at the walls. How would you prefer to be entertained?"

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"Come here and tell me that someday we'll be so powerful we won't have to sell our souls to make things marginally better?"

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Snuggle. "Omnipotence or bust. Unsatisfactory situations will be resolved with a wave of our hands and compensatory boxes of chocolates for all those previously in harm's way."

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Snuggles. "So glad we found you."

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"Because I'm so entertaining or because every marginal world we can access is more leverage?"

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"Additional daeva worlds with the same tech level as us aren't especially leverageable. I like you all for your personality."

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"Not necessarily so much leverageable-for-power as leverageable-for-information, maybe personnel, maybe just another place for the handwaving and chocolates to look after... but that's a better reason anyway." Kiss.

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Kiss. "Have to figure out how to integrate Singularity's Noldor into the empire. Under normal circumstances my alt'd want a sector of the multiverse for himself, but I am assuming he'll be inclined not to rule anybody. But if I take them all out from under him he'll probably be sad even if he thinks it's the right call."

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"Inclined for roughly my reasons?"

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"Yeah."

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"Well, is there a you-compatible equivalent of hiding him in a belfry, is there something else he could do...?"

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"I should probably meet him and confirm that when he's not Doomed we're loosely the same person, but I'm sure there's something with enough people and minimal enough formal authority."

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Nod. Snuggle.

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"And lots of chocolates to go around, once we stumble on magic that can fix it."

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"I'm sort of - lowkey planning to park in Milliways as long as it takes to get ahold of resurrection. Portable resurrection; Nechar can do the non-portable kind but couldn't grab a Singularity Elf off my list..."

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"Makes sense. ...once we have dimensional transit and a way to kill our Melkor we ought to go, time isn't holding still in all the other worlds out there..."

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"I guess dimensional transit is probably as good a bet as Milliways."

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"Well, doesn't have the advantage of holding time still in your world. It probably makes sense to keep some Singularity people in here."

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"Long as they're willing to stay and investigate whatever the landlords are willing to throw at them, yeah."

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"I don't object if you want to stay, I've just been worrying that some of these worlds are moving right along while we sit here because our dimensional travel isn't demon-proofed yet..."

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"If you're worried about specific worlds you can keep track of when it is there through Bar, who's getting publication updates without even the hassle of conjuration, and if you're worried about generic worlds that seems unwarranted since my understanding is that time is running at completely inconsistent rates in all of them and it's not much more likely that the difference between getting them sooner and getting them substantially later will be 'hanging out here for a few centuries' and not 'pausing to tie your shoes before racing out the door'."

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"Well, that's something. Wonder if Rosalie's world is still standing."

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Cam conjures a newspaper from Rosalie's town. "Yep."

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"Thanks."

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"You're welcome."

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And they can snuggle and occupy themselves while Findekáno has his time to think.

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"I think I do want an alt of me who can be told the things I can't," he says after a while. "I am not clear on how alts work but it seems like it might solve the problem."

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"Okay. I'm going to make one of the reader machines--we've got one already but it's in Cam's room where Cam and a conscious Maitimo are, so. This'll take a minute."

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"Okay."

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She makes the machine. She makes the chip. She runs it through.

She forks him.

"I'm really sorry about this."

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He's lying on the floor of a room with an unfamiliar starscape out the window and - someone who looks just like him - and Maitimo, asleep on the bed, and a demon who is apologizing.

 

Well, that's not ominous. He stands up. "What happened?"

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"Uh, hi, I'm the demon the Valar blamed for Alqualonde, I didn't do it, I swear. Literally swear, I have a chip--" she superimposes the last bit with osanwe "--and a while back subjectively just now objectively I found a door to an interdimensional bar called Milliways where I met another demon from my Hell who had gotten summoned by accident to a world that doesn't have its own Hell and when someone's in Milliways and the door's closed time stops in the dimension you came through in and the other demon was from a world a lot like yours except minus the summoning and the Valar and Maiar were weird magic god things and that world's you invented a way to fork people using demons so your alt here," she nods at him, "which is from yet a third world, where Valinor and Endore are different continents on the same planet and they're fighting Magic God Morgoth with swords of all things, asked me to fork you in because he needs help figuring stuff out because his Maitimo is evil."

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He closes his eyes. "How many people know that demons can fork people?"

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"I don't know how many in the other demon's--Cam's--world--we're calling it Singularity, ours Abbadon, and this one's Mirror. Of people from Abbadon, no one who isn't currently in Milliways."

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"How long has it been, subjectively, since you discovered this place -"

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"I haven't personally been keeping track and time passing isn't always consistent between parts."

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"Can you explain how other Ardas work, what a magic god Vala is like, are all worlds variants on Arda..."

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"No, they aren't. Nechar who does security and Rosalie who did security for a while definitely come from non-Ardas, and the bar itself, who is sentient, female and magic, can produce anything 'published' in any world and many of the worlds are not Ardas. I...am not the best person in this room to ask what a magic god Vala is like, your alt grew up under them."

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"Magic god Vala -"

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He sends it.

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"Huh, okay. And evil Maitimo. You have an evil Maitimo."

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"I actually want to head down to Security, there's someone who can clear oaths, and ask him to clear any oaths you are under. Then I will tell you about the evil Maitimo."

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"Wait, really? Then orcs might not be horribly fucked forever, how does he do it, can it scale? And I am not under any oaths."

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"Then it won't be a problem. I can tell you about my Arda on the way."

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"...okay." And to Edie, "can we leave?"

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"...Yes? I mean, you're going to have to push your alt's float chair or have me do it, he can't move, but I'm not keeping you prisoner or anything."

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"Wait, what?"

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"I am not allowed to move while Maitimo's incapacitated."

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"What the fuck."

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"To deter people from trying things."

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"Great. Okay. I will float you downstairs. Can you explain - a lot more things - while I do that -"

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He has explained a lot more things by the time they are at the Security office.

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"Oh, hey, more duplicate people."

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"Hi. I am not under any oaths, but apparently if I were you could remove them, and asking you to remove them is more straightforward than verifying there aren't any?"

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"You people have some seriously convoluted shit going on, don't you. Yeah, I can de-oaths you if you want."

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"Thank you."

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Pause. "There you go."

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"Appreciate your time." He pushes the float chair out. "Do you want me to drop you off back at Edie's -"

"Can't answer that."

"Okay, then I'm going to do that because of the weird time effect thing, and then I will go ask for all of the information you haven't been told, and then I will get you my best guess about what to do from here, and then I'm going to assign you an escort because as I understand it you have to go where he asks, and can't hurt him, but don't have to go alone - does summoning work in Milliways, we can get you a bodyguard -"

"Summoning doesn't work, Midnight and I tried it. Not sure you should get me a bodyguard; if the best thing to do is to be amenable to being won back, then I should probably not work around the oaths to make him angry..."

"I mean, extant situation is that you're his shield. I feel like getting him to release you is going to be mostly about making him believe he won't be killed as soon as he does, not - personal concerns -"

"He won't be killed, everyone here is your Maitimos' and your Maitimo likes him."

"Yeah, I'm gonna go talk with him about that." And back at Edie's. "Hey, he's going to park in here while I try to figure out what he hasn't been told and why. Have you re-dosed the Maitimo more than once, it isn't safe to do that too many times..."

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"I re-dosed him once. How many times is it safe to do?"

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"Two's fine. Three should be okay but let's err on the side of caution given what happens if he dies. Findekáno, can you ask Cam and Maitimo how I can most conveniently communicate with them -"

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Cam?

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Yeah?

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I asked for a copy of my Abaddon alternate. We went to Security and got him cleared of oaths, of which there weren't any anyways, and he would like to talk to you and his Maitimo about everything I can't be told, and would like to know how he can most conveniently get in touch with you.

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If you need absolutely continuous osanwë blockage on my Maitimo, options are 'through you' and 'through Edie and conjuration' and 'maybe Nechar could set something magic up if asked nicely' - computer messages won't go through the osanwë blocking stuff. If you don't need that he can come here.

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I'll tell him to find you. What's the room?

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303.

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And a minute later there is a knock on the door. 

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Cam answers it.

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"Hi. Nice to meet you, I take it I should come in so Maitimo can't spend very long talking to people?"

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"I think that's the idea, yes. Hi."

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He steps inside. Takes in the room, raises an eyebrow very very fractionally, says to Maitimo, "I hear you're going to be emperor of the multiverse? Congratulations." And "You guys should work up more of a standard summary of the situation, it's a lot to take in all at once. 

 

Can someone explain to me what information Midnight's not supposed to have that'd touch on what you need Findekáno doing?"

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"I'm trying to talk Midnight around. He's - still me, if amoral, and will chafe at being threatened and will probably be scary if he decides he doesn't have a choice about being our adversary. He will probably if properly incentivized and supervised be a better ruler of pre-industrial Bizarro Arda than anyone else we've got on hand, even if the country weren't likely rigged to fall apart if he's deposed, but 'properly incentivized' means 'gets to keep his boyfriend' -"

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"You know, there are people who are into that kind of thing, you could find him one of those."

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"We would love to hear alternatives, here."

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"Yes, do tell, where do we find someone who's sufficiently into - that - and will also be a good match and how do we set them up."

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"On the internet, probably. I'm not personally acquainted with any - do the scary people skills not stretch this far, Maitimo -"

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"Just so you know I find this topic kind of upsetting. And no."

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"Me too. Setting them up shouldn't actually be a problem, if he's you except evil then leave him alone for a couple years around people who hate him and he's rather going to cling to anyone who declares they want to be his forever. But I don't have suggestions and we can't start time again to ask - uh, Singularity -"

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"Insanely homophobic complete with magic Vala conversion therapy, I'm sure they're still out there but you wouldn't be able to find them on the internet."

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"Singularity is not mid-crisis so we can start time there, but yes, needle in a haystack."

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"...okay, I have to ask, is it called Singularity because you holed a planet, and -"

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"That is why I named it that yes."

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Enemy can do uploads off chips. In Singularity he had lower bound of fifty million of them, a serious slice of the continent devoted to servers to torture them on, backups offplanet, an ongoing war with unchipped people involved and getting killed forever...he was magic, there wasn't even a summoner to dismiss at whatever outrageous cost. He offered to never hurt anyone ever again, if Cam would destroy Valinor and the Valar for him. 

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Did they get the wording tight enough, has he stopped...

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Yep.

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"Okay," he says aloud. "I think that's everything I know I need to know; is there anything else?"

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"About Singularity, or...?"

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"I was trying to constrain my questions to 'things the other Findekáno needs to make decisions and can't be told', everything else isn't really my business. I assume you're not just relying on information security to keep anyone from making people in Hell -"

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"Once we have a way to take daeva we'll impose some laws. If you want a chip-locked computer you can read all the plans."

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"Great, thanks. How far out are the engineering teams..."

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"Hard to say, and they tend to be sped up compared to us, but probably the better part of a century."

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"Lovely."

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"Should we not have forked you -"

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"Hmm? No, these are practically ideal conditions for it, I should be pretty distinct from the other version by the time we head back out into the world, and he needed me. How are we standardizing computers..."

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"I've been giving people chiplocked ones state of the art from my Hell."

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"Works for me."

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"You have to train it to respond to you, after that it's very easy to use -" He installs a chip, hands Findekáno a computer with the tutorial up.

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"Thanks. I think my alt's going to be okay with Maitimos walking around in a day or so of his time, hopefully that's not too much longer for you - maybe still don't go near him, Maitimo -"

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"Wasn't planning on it. Cam's fine?"

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"I rather expect they'll upset each other equally. Cam doesn't need to make a point of avoiding him."

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"Okay."

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"Nice meeting you. Good luck with everything. I will probably send you a lot of questions on the engineering project selection, Maitimo -"

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"I will probably appreciate the distraction."

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"Take care." And he turns to go.

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"...what's going to actually happen over the day-or-so?"

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"I will probably verify again that I am not under any forms of mind-control, I will reassure him that the multiverse is going to be run well and he doesn't need to try to figure out how to get enough leverage to stop you, I will discuss alternatives to him-being-in-this-mess, I wanted to get him a daeva bodyguard but apparently summoning doesn't work here, and then he'll figure out who it's strategic for him to be and how to nudge himself into that before the Maitimos wake up and are bound to notice him doing it."

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"Okay. If a part-time bodyguard would do the trick Edie's been meaning to bring her angel sister in through the door anyway but she probably won't want to follow him around constantly and may not be sufficiently divorced from the situation being the twin of the girlfriend of a Tyelcormo."

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"When we talked about it he trusted Edie fine, and mostly trusted you. I think once he has some time to orient himself in it's just going to be Maitimos."

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"...okay."

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"...something wrong?"

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"I'm finding it hard to keep up with his attitude toward me as it wobbles around."

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"He was under a lot of mindcontrolling oaths, those make attitudes wobbly. Once I turned out not to be under any myself he concluded that most likely you were fine, except could I contextualize the Valinor thing better - which I can, I don't think uploads are a concept he can process."

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"Your Singularity alt doesn't like me much either as far as I know."

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"I don't think I have enough context to comment, there. I wouldn't have done it. I would probably have tried to stop you. But you did it and it worked and I am glad and if that's really it, no loopholes for him to squeeze through, then obviously it was the lesser of two tragedies, and even if I thought it wasn't there is certainly no point in disliking you for it - hating you enough won't stop it from happening again, won't bring anyone back -"

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"Okay."

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"May we have better choices, from here forward."

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"Hear, hear."

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And he turns and leaves.

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Maitimo hugs him. 

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Hug. Sigh.

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"You okay?"

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"A little wrung out, but I'm fine. Seems like he has things under control."

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"Yeah. He's very sensible, he'll take care of it."

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"Good. And that was hardly awkward at all on an I'm-dating-his-ex level."

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"I did promise you we were not consumed by horrible drama!"

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"It's good to have that confirmed!"

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"Eventually I will have to think how to tell my people what happened in Singularity."

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"Yeah. Some standard explanation that makes sense insofar as it can."

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"And that doesn't lean too heavily on the license my family has, I'm increasingly thinking I want to try to get that to change."

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"Because it could be used for evil?"

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"I've never really thought about making sure there are things I don't have the power to do, I trust myself. But apparently there are a lot of forms of mind control out there and alts of me who shouldn't get the same license."

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Nod. "I would sure like a fully general mind control defense that'd be swell."

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"Supposedly Mirror's Dwarves have it. Guess once we know how to take magic god Valar we can go to Mirror and ask if they're handing that one out."

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"If it's hand-outable."

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"What happens if you try to fork an Elf into a Dwarf, does that work? Edie was able to fork herself into an Elf..."

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"Haven't tried it. Nor tried chipping a Dwarf."

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"I really wish my evil alt were evil in the sense of running tons of deeply unethical but informative experiments, that's a way of being evil that I actually find tempting and then we'd have all these useful experimental results."

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"I mean, I could try chipping a basement dweller dwarf, see what happens."

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"But if it works then we have an Elf in a Dwarf body and they might find that highly unpleasant - not pretty enough - we are kind of a snobbish species -"

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"I was thinking blank chip, see if it just rejects outright, before anything like that. I don't actually see what's so objectionable about Dwarf appearances? Humans are also shorter and beardier, Dwarves are just farther along on the short-and-beardy spectrum."

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"How would you avoid anyone touching your hair!!!"

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"I assume Dwarves don't have this hangup!"

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"But an Elf forked into a Dwarf probably would!"

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"Yeah, I suppose, culturally if not physiologically..."

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"It's probably worth checking, because if summoning doesn't work in Mirror then it'd be good to know if we can back them up, but forking an Elf into a Dwarf seems very risky. 

...does Mirror have a Limbo, posthumous writings of Mirror's population..."

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"Angels could fix the cosmetics and probably leave the mind control immunity -" He checks.

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There's stuff! Not that much stuff, and all Dwarves once they take a closer look.

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"Dwarves get an afterlife in Mirror. Man, Dwarves get all the cool shit."

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"Dwarves and only Dwarves? And we get Mandos? What a rip-off."

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"Valar." Headshake.

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"I know the implications are terrifying but I find it very reassuring, being resurrectable in whatever is my most recent untampered-with state no matter what's happened."

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Nod nod.

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"Being indestructible outright must be even nicer."

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"I like it. I don't know how it extends to mind control though..."

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"We could test if the songs work on you but this would have the unfortunate consequence that the songs might work on you."

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"Yeah. It's... probably better to have a controlled test than walk in blind but yeah."

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"I should ask my Findekáno to confirm with Mirror's Findekáno that the effect duration of magic songs is 'while they're being sung'."

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"That'd limit the scope of horror if it turns out they work."

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"Indeed. Though he seems to think there are other forms of mind control just in his world, and there are also other worlds - some of the powers in Rosalie's -"

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"Yep. Reassuring but not a guarantee if I'm immune to the one thing."

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"But worth knowing. ...could ask Edie to test it if it bothers you particularly, which I think it does."

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"...it does, yeah."

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"I'll suggest it to her."

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"Thanks."

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"There should be a blessing that writes your chip blank if you activate it."

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"Does that have advantages over the suicide melters?"

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"Trivial to fork someone without a suicide melter. Currently non-trivial to fork someone without a specific blessing, except by grabbing them before they installed it."

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"I wouldn't expect that to remain non-trivial in the face of concerted effort, but true as far as it goes."

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"And at least you'd have some warning that whoever forked you was hostile, to whatever limited extent that protects you..."

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Nod.

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"Or a blessing to internally record a distress message, then we can have some people whose job it is to conjure those periodically and go hunt down people in trouble. Same problem, of course."

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"That's really clever."

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"I think it's time I had some long-term projects that aren't Mirror-related. Though then there's the problem that if they're important to do right I should really give them to the most capable people I know instead of treating them as a self-improvement project."

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"Do we even have blessing design specialists in Milliways?"

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"No. Father's very competent at it - "  - Findekáno didn't do it professionally but did delightful little custom ones as presents - "and if we're snatching Emily at some point there are a lot of them on my ship."

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"Okay, so what's either not very important to do right, ideally suited to your skillset, or something there's no specialists we're realistically going to be able to set on the project in the foreseeable future?"

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"Inconveniently, my skillset is knowing who'll be better at things than me and setting them to it! I could draw up a list of things my ship doesn't have any specialists in, check that against the multiverse to-do list - oh, we should check what Milliways considers to be the forked Findekáno's home world - at home I could do blessings, post them online, trust that all the holes there are to poke will be thoroughly poked overnight..."

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"Crowdsourcing's handy. Alas."

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"I'll at least draw up nice specs for the specialists once we snatch them."

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Nod. "Probably easier than starting from nothing. How similar is it to other computer programming?"

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"Pretty similar; you're interfacing with this annoying way-above-our-level black box with an API designed by kangaroo-lizard daeva, so probably even more deeply frustrating than programming is by default, but same skillset."

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"Maybe I should pick it up."

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"It's not a bad way to spend time! Especially now that we're not in Valinor and can start trying all these blessings that would've been illegal there, there's probably lots of low-hanging fruit at the moment..."

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"What kinds of Vala silliness is there about blessings?"

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"Nothing disruptive, nothing that'd let you subvert law enforcement, there's lots of fun VR stuff that got regulated out of existence for being too addictive..."

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"Huh, Singularity has what sounds like pretty good VR but I haven't actually tried it and I don't know if the tech was capped like that."

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"We should really pull all their tech and do a cross-check, fill in all the gaps - I bet their manufacturing is way ahead of ours, since we aggressively cheat on that..."

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"You can find out how they built the lightleapers before I turned up."

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"I am looking forward to it! The cultural differences must be - we wrote a series of plays on commission for the prototyping and advanced development of lightleapers, and then had a lovely festival where the plays were performed and the lightleapers made -"

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"I would not be surprised if there was a festival involved on Singularity too."

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"Getting used to Elves?"

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"A bit, yes." Smooch.

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Kisses! Not dwelling on his ex! Other lovely things!

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He heads back and finds Findekáno. So, he says, I am satisfied that my Maitimo isn't evil and will run the galaxy basically exactly as you'd want the galaxy run. He is pretty okay with you thinking he's on Midnight's side because he wants Midnight to think that, so I have no comment on that, but you don't need to figure out how you can rein him in. It, uh, doesn't really work anyway, if it works with yours I think that's by actually changing the calculus about what is in his interests, or maybe the difference is that yours doesn't have principles to start with. 

Sigh.

It seems like absent someone happening to waltz in who'll be useful for removing Midnight from power, 'nudge him into being a good person' is all we've got, though everyone's happy to see you clear of it if that's what you want.

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For a little while, maybe. Long enough to be sure I can do it without losing too much of myself.

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Then we'll figure out how to do that. 

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Okay. I think that's all I needed. ...what's going on between you and yours?

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Enemy spent a while trying to splinter the Noldor and the pressure ended up damaging our relationship a lot. I think I did sort of expect we'd fix it someday if we survived the war anything-resembling-intact, but we'd broken up a Year ago, he's not doing anything wrong.

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And you're okay?

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I have to say it's kind of weird to entertain that from you - once everything more pressing is dealt with I will write some sad songs. At the moment I am mostly feeling relief we have a way to win the war and horror at your situation and there's not space for anything else. 

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I loved him once. 

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Mine's not evil and I still do love him and yet I remain capable of recognizing that we weren't doing each other any favors. If it weren't for the external considerations I would definitely encourage you to spend a couple centuries forgetting he exists and if you cared to, going to nice bars -

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Cultural difference?

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Uh, yes, I guess I don't know how you meet men for something casual in your Arda.

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You don't, it's illegal.

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Charming. Okay. If we find a better solution than you sticking with Maitimo, you can come hang out in my world and if or when you're ready for that it's - not illegal. You can have whoever you want, settle down and get married if you want -

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He freezes up.

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Or not do that.

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Men can't be married.

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...if that's a reassuring thing then I will not contest it.

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Yeah.

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Okay. I am going to think about better solutions. Do you want to go hang down in the main bar -

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I have to come when he calls me.

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Okay. So, bodyguard?

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Don't think so. Easier to switch to that than away from it.

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Alright. Take care.

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Yeah, he says, and waits for Maitimo to wake.

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Which he does, eventually, raises an eyebrow at the float chair, says "did anything happen or did you just decide to check what you could get away with?"

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"For the record, this one is in fact 'yours,'" she does air-quotes with her fingers, "but there's another one around now so you shouldn't assume."

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"More reason to keep your hair short."

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"I'm trying to make this work, and the hair isn't the hill I want to die on, but - now that I have some leverage, have you considered being pleasant to be around -"

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"Leverage isn't the thing that would convince me to do that. You okay?"

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"Yep. All emotionally equipped to be reassuring, presuming you still find resentful silence reassuring."

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"Very. Let's go get something to eat, I'm very hungry, and you can be resentfully silent."

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And he slips out of the chair and follows him downstairs.

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They get a meal. As promised Findekáno eats it in resentful silence. "Upstairs," he says when he's finished, and Findekáno follows. 

 

"Are you going to do that again?"

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"Might be tempted if you try to hurt me."

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"I could just let you go."

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"You could just stop keeping me around by coercion. Not the same thing, necessarily."

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"Everyone here would be happy to kill me."

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"I know. I imagine it is unpleasant and I do not prefer you have unpleasant experiences. I think your alt likes you okay.

 

 

 

His Findekáno is still in love with him. Did you ever regret throwing that away?"

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"You told me you were going to be resentfully silent."

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"Can do," he murmurs, and the transcript doesn't catch anything for a long time.

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When they head downstairs his ex is sitting comfortably by the bar, working. 

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"Hey. Sent you a couple hundred comments on the multiverse plan, and I'm trying to figure out if there's a way -  short of actually cracking osanwë communication - to record distress messages with only extant blessings, or possibly without any blessings if it can be done natively."

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"Really long subjective time, or are you just really upset."

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"The latter. They're upstairs. My alt didn't think a bodyguard would help his long-term goals."

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"We have them bugged, if you want to listen in. Little ethically dubious but we're trying to help."

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He raises an eyebrow. "I'll let you know if I think it would help anything for me to have that."

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"Sorry."

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"Yeah."

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Gosh, how complicated and mildly depressing it is to be involved with that right now. It is much less complicated to be snuggled on a couch in the main Bar area keeping enough attention free to notice if someone comes in the door and otherwise watching excellent movies from several different worlds.

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And eventually somebody comes through the door and - 

 

 - stares at her like she is the most beautiful thing he's ever seen and also definitely a hallucination that will fade if he blinks -

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...Um. Dear? An alt of you just walked in the door and is looking at me in a very worrying fashion.

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Mmmm? He sits up so he can see the stranger. Huan rises to his feet too.

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His expression goes slightly more expressionless and he whimpers.

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I don't think he's okay. I want him to be okay, what happened, how do we fix this--I'm worried if I talk to him he'll just keel over, can you--

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"Uh, hi! This is weird and the explanation's even weirder but I don't want to hit you with it when you look like you might fall over - also if there's anything bad happening in your world you should close the door, time stops while you're in here."

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"Do explain yourself."

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"Uh. So, there are multiple dimensions."

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"I know."

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"This place lets us go between them. And it turns out some universes have the same people. There are three mes. Well, now there are four mes."

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"And how many Idaias?"

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"Her name's Edie but, like, one and a half. Two and a half if you know one."

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"...What happened to her, and will it make things better or worse if I hug you?"

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"She died thirty thousand years ago and I do not actually think there is 'worse' -"

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She hugs him. Wingfully. ...So he's wearing Earth clothes, I just noticed--also his hair isn't braided? Is a ponytail enough to count as decent?

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No.

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"How come you're dressed like that?"

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"...'s for my job?"

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"...I mean why are you wearing clothes that look like they're from an Earth, not an Arda."

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"Huh?"

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"...I come from an Earth, it has humans on it. My Tyelcormo comes from an Arda--it has Valinor that has Valar and Elves and Maiar, and Endore that has Elves and Orcs and Dwarves and tree-people and Maiar, and Earth that has humans. And one of his alts comes from an Arda that has Valinor that has Valar and Maiar and Elves and Endore that has Elves and Orcs and Dwarves and presumably tree-people and humans and no Earth. And his other alt that isn't you comes from an Arda that's all one planet, and Valinor and Endore are continents, and for assorted population read the Space Arda that the one in front of you doesn't come from."

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"...thirty thousand years ago there were all those things, yeah. The orcs we killed and the Dwarves died out and the Maiar and Valar and most of the Elves are all in Valinor where the humans can't find them so now it's mostly humans and the Elves who didn't want Valinor or weren't welcome there."

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"...You're from an Earth. That is an Arda."

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"Yeah, and at some point after everything else faded from living memory the humans decided to call it Earth."

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"Yeah I'm just going to check to make sure my Earth isn't an Arda." Complete written works of Elves on her Earth? Nothing. Dwarves? Nothing. Orcs? Nothing. "Nope. Okay, this is weird in multiple directions."

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"...I'm sorry?"

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"Okay what buttons am I pushing here."

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"You look and sound and move like Idaia and she has been dead thirty thousand years."

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"...Presumably she didn't have wings?"

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"She could probably have given herself wings if we wanted for some reason."

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"I'm sorry you lost her," she says helplessly. "I'm sure she must have loved you very much."

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We have to do something, she tells her own Tyelcormo, this is not okay.

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Yeah I noticed. "Uh," he says, "do you have the same family I've got, are they okay -"

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"No."

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"What kind of not okay?"

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"A lot of different kinds. There was a war. It was really really awful."

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"They...tend to do that, yeah, in the Space Arda this one isn't from Valinor got sucked into a black hole at one point."

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"Would grabbing the non-evil Maitimo--the other one-planet Arda's Maitimo is evil--actually, for all we know yours is too, I hope not--anyway would bringing in Maitimo help or not that."

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" - what?"

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"...Because he does people stuff? Or was that in response to 'there is an evil Maitimo,' because there is, he's a rapist."

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He turns around and opens the door again.

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"N-n-n-n-n-nooooope we can fix everything in your world please just stay here a bit -" and he blocks him. Maitimo come help there's an alt of me from thirty thousand years in the future and he's a disaster please come!

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"...um," he says to Cam.

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"Um?"

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He stands up, "can you dress me, it's faster, Tyelcormo says and I quote 'Maitimo come help there's an alt of me from thirty thousand years in the future and he's a disaster please come!'"

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Maitimo is wearing clothes now. "Do you want me along -?"

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"Do you mind? Depending on the variety of disaster - I feel like at this point I'm braced for every flavor of horribleness but I'm probably wrong -"

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When they arrive downstairs they see a Tyelcormo with his hair just longer than shoulder-length and in a ponytail, wearing a shirt that says 'staff, Zion National Park', and staring blankly at Edie, who is looking distressed, and Edie's Tyelcormo, who is tugging his alt away from the door and saying 'just wait a second, they're coming.'

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"Zion National Park?" mouths Cam.

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"He's from a single-planet Arda that turned into an Earth after everything that wasn't humans or a handful of Elves either died or went to Valinor. Listen, there are ten of your dad and ten of your brother Curufinwe upstairs working on technical problems, I'm sure they can fix your world given long enough," she says, changing her address from Cam to the Tyelcormo.

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"The world is past the point of needing fixing."

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"Shiny Tree Arda? Valinor and Endorë are an ocean apart?"

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"They used to be."

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"...why don't you sit down and get a drink from Bar and then we will figure out. Stuff." Like whether my alts being rapists is a persistent feature of Shiny Tree Ardas. 

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"Can't get drunk, I'm on the clock."

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"Time's stopped, but yeah, probably don't get drunk."

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And he sits down heavily at Bar and says "I make minimum wage."

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First one's free. Hot cider.

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"The Arda turned into an Earth? I guess the maps we looked at weren't very precise - what the fuck -"

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"Also there is like a coherent geological history of the Earth and single-planet Arda didn't look like Pangea."

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"My Earth isn't an ex-Arda, I checked."

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"Fuckload of divine intervention," he says. "The Valar and Morgoth had a continent-shattering slugfest and then humans offended Eru so he went ballistic and wiped a lot of stuff out and started over. And then I think Sauron's fall was also continent-shattering, or something - I was dead by then - and then fifteen thousand years later humans invented civilization again on their own. The dinosaur bones might just be Eru pulling some shit, I'm not sure."

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"...okay. Well, my Earth's the same one as Edie's, maybe continental drift's different on yours and you just have a Zion National Park anyway for reasons, or Eru's just really good at falsifying evidence and some creationist museums are owed apologies..."

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"Didn't pay enough attention to draw you any maps, sorry."

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"It's okay."

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"It's fine, we're demons. Any objects that have ever existed we can recreate."

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"So Morgoth's dead? That's good!"

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"It took six hundred years and there were quite literally ten survivors."

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"Less good."

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"Several of them then immediately committed suicide."

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"Your world is shit," she observes, "but people come through Milliways from all kinds of universes and if you stay here long enough you could run into someone with magic that can resurrect people."

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"...and time's stopped?"

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"Yep!"

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"Okay."

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Uh, we should verify non-evilness. 

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Any specific ideas for how?

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Ask for the history, except he seems sorta fragile?

He pulls out his computer and types Cam the same dilemma.

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What would we need to worry about from an evil Tyelcormo, is it in fact urgent?

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Nah, probably not. Also there definitely wouldn't be such a thing as a secretly evil Tyelcormo.

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So address the fragility, uh, somehow, find out if he's evil incidentally, be conservative about pulling anybody else from his world in.

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Sounds good. Hand-squeeze. 

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He's calming down already at the thought of resurrection. "Thanks," he says to Bar, and then to Edie, "um, demons?"

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"Demons are one of three kinds of daeva! Demons make things, angels change things, fairies move things. In our Space Arda the Valar are daeva; in the other Space Arda and Single-Planet Arda they're weird magic things. Mandos and Varda are demons and Lorien is an angel and Manwe, Ulmo and Orome are fairies, I don't remember the rest."

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"Okay. Um. Okay. Can you make Silmarils."

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"Demons can't make magic things or things that are more intelligent than a bug, but I can try." She tries. "Nope, sorry."

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"Can you make a spaceship?"

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"I have made lots of spaceships. That's how I met this Maitimo, he summoned me to make spaceships to get from Valinor to Endore."

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"Cool, we need a spaceship that can handle the atmosphere of Venus."

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"Trickier design problem but I'm sure someone's modeled it for kicks, what do you need on Venus?"

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"Maitimo, will a standard lightleaper handle Venus? You don't know what Venus is like, I can get ahold of specs for what Venus is like...should we drag at least one of your dad down here?"

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"I don't even know what Venus is, but lightleapers are not meant for atmosphere at all, you'll definitely want something else. And yeah, what do you need on Venus?"

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"There's a Silmaril there."

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"Why the fuck."

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"Seconding why the fuck. Do you know where on Venus or is it just 'somewhere Venusian'."

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"We have no idea where on Venus. Usually you can see a Silmaril from space but not if it's on Venus. Eru put it there because he was pissed at us is the short version of why the fuck."

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"Venus is kinda sizable, this is not just an atmo-handling problem even if you assume it's hanging out in plain sight on a rock somewhere glittering."

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"Well, luckily demons are good at figuring out where the fuck. So, spaceship design--do you know where the other two are?"

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"Yes, Maitimo leaped with his into a fiery chasm that had opened in the earth in the middle of all of the continent crumbling and Macalaurë walked with his into the sea and drowned."

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"Are there - explanatory circumstances -"

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"And do those things translate into actual coordinates such that I don't have to demonically find them."

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"If we had actual coordinates we'd have bought a fucking drill or something."

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"I suspected as much. Alright, lemme fiddle for a while."

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"Explanatory circumstances."

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"Enemy turned the entire northern mountain range into supervolcanoes, killed tons of people, organized resistance to him collapsed and he could just kind of pick off the remaining kingdoms at his leisure. He lobs a Silmaril at Doriath. They keep it. They genocide their Dwarf population in a fit of paranoia, Thingol's killed, Melian stops maintaining the protections because she completely loses it without him - we asked them to give the Silmaril back, they didn't send back our messengers - we sacked Doriath. I died. Moryo died. Curvo died. Couple hundred thousand people died. A three-year-old girl escaped with the Silmaril. Took it to a refugee camp by the mouth of the Sirion. We found out it was there.

 

You tried to delay, I think. Twenty years of resisting an oath, but the thing about doing that, is that it slowly wears away everything you care about which isn't the oath. Meant when you did sack Sirion it was - even worse than it had to be, probably - I don't even know how many people died that time, some of your own people tried to stop you and they died too - Amras died there - 

 

- and then the Valar noticed that Beleriand had a population of approximately fucking nobody and now was the time to come fight the Enemy. And they did. And it took sixty years but they won, and afterwards they claimed the Silmarils as spoils of war. And you wrote them letters, reminding them of the oath, which they ignored. And you slaughtered your way into and through the victorious host of the West, and then you took the Silmaril and leapt off a cliff with it."

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"Remind me, do you have an oath like that on you because if so -" gesture in the direction of the security office.

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"Figured it might in fact incentivize the Enemy to lob it at Doriath and if he did that it was better than him figuring out how to redirect all backups. But. Yeah." Security officewards.

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Where Nechar is very obliging about de-oathing him.

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"The guy in the Security office can remove oaths," Edie explains to Tyelcormo.

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He thanks Nechar. He comes back.

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"He can what?"

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"He is magic and can remove oaths."

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"...gonna go try that."

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Nechar waves politely at him when he comes in.

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"Can you remove oaths?"

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"Yeah."

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"I swore to kill anyone who withheld a Silmaril. Can that. Not."

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"Sure." That not.

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"...wow. Thank you. Thank you so much." He is maybe crying.

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"You're welcome," says Nechar. "...why do you people keep swearing things, anyway."

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"This was over thirty thousand years ago and under extreme circumstances which later changed."

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"Okay then."

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"Anyway, thank you." And he leaves.

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Don't know if that's an evil Arda or just a really Doomed one. Someone shoulda bugged him to check whether he got oath-swearing removed...

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He's not a you. Think it'll occur to him to lie if we ask? Think it'll occur to him to lie if I ask, privately?

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Maybe not. Probably not. Still should've bugged him - though he's a magic Elf, he could ask over osanwë anyway - 

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Oh well. Next time.

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He comes back. "Does this bar place stay put, I need to give Nelyo a call and he needs to come do that."

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"...It stays put as long as someone from your universe is holding the door. If the door closes it's gone."

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"So can one of you give him a call? I can tell you the number."

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"Yeah. Anything in particular I should be telling your coworkers? I don't mind telling them the whole truth, or parts of it redacted for infosec if it should be redacted for infosec, and the truth includes stuff like 'can make fertile eggs of dodo birds and passenger pigeons and so on', that might be compelling to the kind of people who work at a national park."

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Uh, we do not want another evil me in here -

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"Probably don't tell them anything, just ask to use the phone."

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Do you have any advice on finding out whether or not he's evil quickly? "Presumably the fact that you are standing around holding the door is going to require explaining if nothing else."

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"Not especially, they think I'm weird."

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No idea, I just don't think we should risk it.

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"...So far the other Maitimo from a single-planet Arda was evil, I think I mentioned that, and this one doesn't want to risk letting yours in if he's evil too."

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"You can go fuck yourself," he says to Maitimo.

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"I apologize for casting aspersions on your brother's character if they turn out not to be warranted."

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"You have no idea what he's been through."

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"No, I don't."

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"To be clear, the kind of evil we're worried about is less 'was coerced into killing people by Oath' and more 'literally raping Findekano.'"

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"I am pretty sure no version of Nelyo would ever do that, what the fuck."

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"There's one who is upstairs. We have no idea what the fuck, which is why we're trying to be careful."

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"That is not a problem."

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I think Evil Maitimo said his brothers knew and didn't mind... she says to not-evil Maitimo.

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Could have been lying.

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Yeah. I'd ask him to swear it if we were sure he didn't have free will. Do you think it would work to ask Findekano to swear that Maitimo's brothers know? And if so, would it be worth it?

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It's not urgent. We can deal with this all in a year.

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I guess. I'm heavily in favor of taking that oath off more people, though, and--honestly--if we find something that could do resurrection I'm not sure I trust him to wait; it might be better to be efficient with use of time he has to spend holding the door.

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Isn't that a reason to wait for resurrection?

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Yes? Not so much a reason to wait on confirming lack of evilness.

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I'll leave it to you. Unhappily. He squeezes Cam's hand again and the new Tyelcormo shoots him an utterly bewildered look.

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"Soooo was your Valinor homophobic too?"

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"Is that not a universal thing?"

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"My Valar are unique among the Valar so far in not actually sucking that much, and they didn't pass on any opinions on the topic."

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"Cool on them, I guess. Anyway, that's not why I was surprised, it's more like - are alternate universe versions of people supposed to be exactly the same? My Nelyo has literally never shown even a flicker of interest in anyone, boy or girl, even once we were long past the point where he'd even pretend to give a fuck what the Valar thought."

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"Maybe this is an insensitive question, but how traumatized was he at that point?"

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"...he acts normal."

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"Acts?"

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"I don't think he has lived a single second in the past thirty thousand years that he preferred to not existing, and he killed himself as soon as the oath would let him, and he does not seem to have any preferences on the level of 'what to do with free time' or 'how to be treated, short of torturing him' and I'm not sure he even believes he's really out of Angband. But he acts normal."

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She hugs him again.

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He half-relaxes.

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...handsqueeze can escalate into wingputting.

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"Anyway, we should go get him. Being - free of the oath - will be something the Enemy couldn't have pulled off - and also maybe you could kill him for real, if you have the magic -"

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"I don't think that's a magic we have."

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"Anyway. He should know."

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I understand the need to be careful but it really doesn't sound like he'd be--relevantly a problem.

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Yeah.

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"How long do you think it would take him to get here?"

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"Uh, he's in D.C. So, like, eight, nine hours? Unless you've got magic for that."

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"We might have tech for that, how far away is deecee?"

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"Washington D. C.--DC is two letters, D and C, stands for District of Columbia--is the nation's capital, and..." she conjures a globe. "I don't actually know where Zion is."

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"Utah." He points.

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"So this far apart," she points to D.C. "You remember what size the Earth is."

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"Yeah, we could go get him and back in less than eight hours, might catch some attention if we care about that. Unless your tech portfolio has better stealth than ours."

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"The stealth might well be better but we don't have invisible ships, for that it'd be 'send a demon, use cloud cover'."

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"Are you faster than whatever-this's-Earth's-tech-level-is airplanes?"

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"What year is it?" Cam asks New Tyelcormo.

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"Uh, I don't pay very much attention, 2004 or 2005 or something."

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"If that's even close to right then yes we're faster."

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"It's at least close."

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"But this does involve you holding the door continuously for like a couple hours still depending on how much convincing your Maitimo takes to get in the shuttle and if you fuck up the door holding thing you strand me or Edie whichever of us is going."

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"Should be Edie, we can dismiss and resummon her."

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"Also, should anyone else get fetched?"

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"I'd love to have my whole family here but he's the only one who - I take it you can't guarantee you'll have oath-erasing forever -"

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"Should do for a while but no, we can't guarantee forever."

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"So that's the only really urgent thing."

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"He's the only one who what?"

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"Doesn't believe he's outside Angband and might if he suddenly wasn't bound by the Silmaril oath?"

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"Yes. Right. So that makes him the highest priority, but that doesn't mean it wouldn't be good to get any of the others..."

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"If you want to go grab them all I won't stop you - I don't know where they all are, but Nelyo will - but we probably aren't going to hang around with you people just for the fun of it, and if it's subjective centuries most of us'll fade."

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"Fade?"

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He sends everyone Amras and the concept and the tug of fading.

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"...I was going to suggest get the Fëanáro and the Curufinwë to add somebody who can do magic to the think tank upstairs but if this is a pressing concern maybe not."

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"Is there some way of fixing that?"

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"It's pressing on the scale of a century, if it's maybe going to take a century then you don't want us in here unless you can find a Silmaril. Silmarils fix it."

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"The multiplanet-Arda Silmarils aren't magic but they are too intelligent to conjure with all their features and their features probably don't even include that. - Bar is there by any chance an anti-fading property of the premises."

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No. However, the infirmary should be expected to cover conditions of such a debilitating nature.

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"Oh, yeah, I'm nearly done fiddling with rocks..." she conjures a few more pebbles. "The two not on Venus are at," and she names two sets of latitudinal and longitudinal coordinates and depth below sea level.

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"...okay in that case do go get everybody and maybe you should just get the Silmarils, Dad was pretty sure he could kill a Vala with them and ten of Dad definitely could."

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"Retrieving things at that depth'd be easier for an angel than us, might be a good time to get your sister, Edie."

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"Does summoning work in this world because if so we can dismiss and resummon Emily instead of starting time in my world."

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"Couldn't tell you..."

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"Yeah, okay. Tyelcormo, who's around the door, how much are they going to stare if I go through -"

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"Uh, what if dismissing her restarts time on the other side of our door?"

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"Staff and visitors and a lot, you are dressed like you just waltzed out of a fantasy novel and kind of a noticeable person anyway, Cam or Idaia-Edie'd attract a lot less attention except for the fucking wings - uh, someone could dress as a construction worker or something and then we can wedge the door open and pretend to hammer things and put up signs that are like 'we apologize for the dust! we are renovating so the next generation can enjoy Zion!'"

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"...would it do that? Bar, do you know if it'd do that?"

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I'm afraid I don't know.

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"Okay. We'll open the door and grab the blessing specialists while we're at it."

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"You guys make no sense."

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"You haven't even heard the half of it."

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"Is there anyone else we might want besides finally-my-sister and the specialists?"

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"Don't think so. I drew up a list for when we were ready."

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"Okay. You should probably yell for everyone except Emily."

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"Yes, I'm ready to do so."

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She opens the door and calls for her sister.

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And he broadcasts to the relevant thirty people that he needs them at this door more urgently than he has ever given an order, more urgently than there's a priority level for, and in an agonizing minute forty-nine seconds they're all through the door. 

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Can I have another drink? he mutters at the bar.

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Would you like to open a tab?

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"I'll cover comestibles for him," Cam tells Bar.

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Very well. Requests, or would you like my recommendation?

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Something, like, alcoholic enough I can pretty much be numb through all this - stuff - but not enough I'll embarrass myself?

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And Bar produces a glass of something caramely and boozy.

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And he ignores the happy reunion of not-Idaia and not-Imliss and drinks and hurts and tries not to fade.

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Emily makes assorted horrified noises as her twin fills her in on everything.

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Maybe I should have imported therapists, he writes to Cam.

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Do you actually have any handy?

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There are some on the ship, yes. They are not qualified to deal with problems like this but then really who is.

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Pity there isn't a psychological equivalent of the infirmary.

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I will make the suggestion to Bar.

 

He does.

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I have wished this too on occasion.

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And he brings the blessings specialists up to date on what they're doing (taking over the multiverse) and what they're needed for (these are the project specs, please don't ask questions, if you make inferences please take them to me or don't mention them at all and certainly don't commit them to recorded format) and they all get some rooms to go work in. 

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"So, hi, I'll be digging up your shiny rocks," Emily tells sad/drunk Tyelcormo. "Should I bring them here or somewhere else or what?"

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"Uh. Here. Thank you. Please don't decide to keep 'em."

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"Theft: Not a hobby of mine."

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"I'm sorry we got you killed."

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"Well, you didn't get me killed, I died in a car accident."

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"I got my you killed. Thirty thousand years ago."

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"Once we've got resurrection sorted you can apologize to her."

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"Yeah."

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"...Have we checked for sure that your world doesn't have daeva? Seems unlikely since ours isn't an ex-Arda, but it's a cheap test..."

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"We have not. I'll do that."

She conjures a data-storage device and plugs it into her computer.

She examines the results.

"...As expected you have no daeva. As not expected your Dwarves and only your Dwarves have an afterlife."

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"Wasn't that true on Mirror too?"

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"Yeah, it was."

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"I don't think you mentioned that."

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"Wasn't much we could do about it. It would change the calculus if we needed to do various stupid things but we can instead just close the door and wait until we have a less horrible solution."

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"Yeah. So--" she cuts off and peers at the screen. "Huh. I don't actually recognize this alphabet."

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"Hmm?"

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She turns the screen around to show him.

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"That's the setting on all Tyelcormo's stuff, do you not look over each others' shoulders much?"

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"Most of his stuff doesn't have writing!"

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"Well, that's his alphabet. Because my father doesn't have the concept of overkill and took his son's dyslexia personally."

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"That's awesome."

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"I'm surprised he wrote that much, though. He doesn't write much even with his alphabet."

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"...That's. Not his. I was conjuring posthumous works in such a way as to specifically exclude Elves-out-of-Mandos, and.

 

That's. My handwriting."

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"What?"

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"Yeah, this makes no sense, but--" she conjures another storage device. She pores through the contents. "Tyelcormo--the not-space one--if you bolt through that door right now and don't hold it I can't get any of your brothers for de-oathing and my sister can't retrieve the Silmarils right now. But, um--you should. Maybe read some of this."

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It is, coincidentally enough, a letter. To him.

I know you're probably never going to read this, but--it begins, and proceeds to outline the events of the past few weeks, including various events at school, social activities with her apparently-rather-small circle of actual friends, and the distribution of pork to a significant fraction of the college. It is peppered with inconsistently-coherent endearments, and at the end mentions that she still doesn't know how the fuck she reincarnated but maybe if that was going to happen it spoke well for her prospects of someday being able to rescue everyone from Mandos. She hopes.

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"Go and find her."

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"I'm working on it!" To Cam: "So I'm not sure he's psychologically capable of cooperating with plans that don't involve grabbing her as fast as possible, would you be willing to get his Maitimo while I get his me?"

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"My summoner's thoroughly challenging to access so stranding me would be bad. Could remote pilot it?"

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"Okay. Emily and I will go through, I'll take off for...California, apparently...she'll call Maitimo and you can pilot the drone to pick him up? And then she'll go retrieve shiny rocks."

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"Sure."

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"Great. And we should probably find another doorstop, too, in case this one has trouble handling the job once his formerly-dead girlfriend is within hugging distance."

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"There might be somebody who can roll with weird things and easily bribed within reasonable distance of the door."

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"Finding someone who can roll with weird things seems like it would involve going through some people who can't."

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"Potentially, yes. I suspect most people would take reasonably well to 'I will give you this suitcase full of cash to hold this door for a few hours'? And this probably isn't the time to worry about counterfeiting?"

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"Some people have perfectly valid principles against accepting counterfeit cash, though, and I'd rather not violate those without their knowledge or consent...valuable objects might be a better bet. Point taken, though."

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"Pretty jewelry," suggests Cam. "Although that was surprisingly hard to hock for its value even pre-Revelation."

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"Worth a try, anyway--oh, are we going to have to take off our wings, that sounds like a thing."

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"I made mine without nerves in the joints but they also go reasonably discreetly under a coat, I dunno about your model."

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"I was prioritizing function over discretion. Oh well, there's an angel here."

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Yes, two sets of wings now get to enjoy exciting new careers as cloud fluff.

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"I suppose I'll do the coat in case someone sees me through the door." He folds up his wings all snug and adds a long leather coat.

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"Nice coat."

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"Thank you."

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"Hi, I'm a harmless shenanigan," Edie tells one of Tyelcormo's coworkers. "Your weird coworker" she actually forgot to get his human alias so "is involved. Currently he's holding a door open for strange but important reasons. If he becomes unable to continue doing this will you accept valuable objects in exchange for functioning as backup doorstop?"

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The coworker looks approximately as confused as any person has ever looked and says "what are you on?" and slowly backs away.

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Edie relays this to Space Maitimo and requests suggestions on how to elicit positive responses instead of accusations of drug use.

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Can you make me clothes that are regionally and temporally typical - and he strips -

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She dashes back in. "I don't think you're supposed to do that in the bar area! Do you even speak English?" she asks, but she also covers him in nice jeans and a short-sleeved button-down shirt.

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"Why not - oh, right, humans have a taboo - Bar, have you considered banning unbraided hair in the general bar area? No? Because obscenity customs vary and are mostly pretty arbitrary?"

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There are occasional adjustments to the rules but none have been declared for this set of occupants.

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"Anyway," he says to Edie, "I'm your foreign friend, I don't speak English, I have decided to paint a picture on a canvas placed in front of the door. I am stubborn about this. I do own that nice shiny temporally-correct high-status vehicle out front, I own ten of them, trust fund kid, I'm unfortunately a bit of an idiot and liable to get lost and or crash the high-status vehicle so do they mind keeping an eye on me you are losing your mind and will fucking give them the high-status vehicle, look, here are the things-used-for-vehicle-ownership if they'll hang out and watch me and hold the door."

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"Okay, I think I can perform that. Gimme a minute to find an opportune moment and make the car when no one's looking."

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"My pleasure."

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She makes the car. She comes back in and fetches him and performs exasperation with foreign idiot trust fund kid.

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No one accuses her of being on drugs. They are not totally sure this is legit re: car but, yeah, sure thing, they'll keep an eye on him as long as he just really wants to hang out in that doorway.

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Great. And now, finally, off to California.

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Meanwhile Emily borrows a phone and calls the number Tyelcormo gave her.

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The script Tyelcormo gave her is "Zachary? You're picking up the kids today, right?" 

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It's a weird script, but she follows it.

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"Sorry, you have a wrong number," says the voice on the other end of the line, and hangs up, and calls back ten minutes later and says in Quenya, "what."

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"My name is Emily Lehnsherr, I'm an alternate-universe version of someone you knew who died thirty thousand years ago, and there's magic available that can remove oaths. We have fancy future technology. Someone's sending a drone to pick you up--it has fantastic fancy future stealth stuff--if you say where to land it."

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He names a location. "Do you have a twin sister."

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"Her name is Edie."

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"My brother was married to an alternate universe version of her-"

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"Oh, they're married? My sister's just dating the version we ran into first. Um, also the magic we have is kind of a hilarious infosec hazard--Edie's kind is, mine isn't, we have different kinds--anyway she checked the posthumous writings of this universe and we discovered that Dwarves have an afterlife but no one else does and your me and her somehow reincarnated. So Edie's haring off to California to fetch her mysteriously no longer dead alt."

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"I see."

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"I am aware it sounds fucking crazy."

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"I'll be at the location I gave you."

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"Alright."

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And he is.

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Good, it would be inconvenient if Cam's drone had to come back empty-handed. Meanwhile she is in North Dakota angeling her way through an annoying amount of rock.

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He has a panic attack at Cam's drone. He makes himself get in anyway because if this is something bad it's not like he could avoid it by running from the drone.

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"Hello, I'm Cam, sorry about the lack of view out the lack of window," says Cam's voice through a speaker in the drone shuttle, "this thing isn't invisible so I'm doing cloud cover over anything inhabited, it doesn't look much like a plane. Be like forty-five minutes to where you're going."

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Don't collapse don't collapse get yourself the fuck together - "Understood."

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"...you okay?"

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"I have no idea what information anybody has here - if it's really forty-five minutes I will be functional."

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"...uh, okay. It's really forty-five minutes. If you need anything I can make stuff inside the shuttle, I can also turn off the camera but these things are mutually exclusive."

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"I do not need anything. Thank you for offering."

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"Okay."

He turns the camera off. He pilots the drone back to near the door.

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He keeps his heart rate steady.

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"Here you go. Elf ears'll probably let you actually hear me on top of the speaker," Cam says when he lands the thing, and the door opens.

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"Where do you need me to go?"

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"Mm - here -" Cam makes a trail of white pebbles.

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There is definitely some staring when he walks past his-alt-who-is-making-sure-the-door-gets-kept open but less than you'd expect because he's in a suit and tie and his hair is cropped very short and dyed grey at the roots and plucked out to be suggestive of a receding hairline. 

 

 

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Cam had seen him through the camera but something about watching him actually walk in increases his expectation that this one is not evil and is instead some brand new variety of fucked up (why are all the Maitimos fucked up). "The guy who can undo oaths is down there, door on the right."

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...okay.

 

He walks down to the room on the right and says "Hello, I'm Matt, Cam asked me to come speak to you?"

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"Nechar - moons falling how many of you are there - what is it?"

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"Apparently you can remove oaths?"

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"Yeah, if you tell me what it was. Why do you people keep making oaths you're just going to want rid of I don't get it."

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"It's about the Silmarils, is that enough to go off?"

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"Unless there's other oaths about Silmarils you want to keep should do."

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"Nope."

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"Okay." Pause. "There you go."

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"...thank you. Very much. You have a nice day."

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"You too."

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He doesn't feel any different, because the Silmarils are all beyond reach. But he can play along with the premise. He walks back out to the bar.

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"Sorted?" Cam asks him.

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"Yes. Is there a summary somewhere of what is going on."

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"Uh, there's a summary of where we are -" Cam offers him a stack of napkins - "but nothing so convenient about the ensemble."

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He reads the napkins. 

 

He closes his eyes. 

 

"Okay. Thank you."

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"You're welcome."

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Then he will just sit here until something is asked of him; he can't be more functional than that without any cues.

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So I'm currently not thinking this one is evil, I think he is yet some third flavor of fucked up, Cam writes to his Maitimo.

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...yay? Is he making any trouble?

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No, just sitting there.

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Well, it's been thirty thousand years, I doubt a confusing afternoon is going to do meaningful harm or benefit.

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Okay. Should I just leave him be or - what?

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I don't know, do we need anything from him? There's probably not much point in making conversation but if there's information we could use -

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Nothing comes to mind.

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(Meanwhile, Bar gamely attempts to offer Matt a beverage.)

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"No thank you."

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Alas.

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He is making Cam vaguely nervous. He should probably figure out how to stop doing that. 

 

 

He will do that later. 

 

He continues sitting there quietly.

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Well, Cam's trying not to stare. He loiters, glancing at his computer periodically in case he is needed for any more tasks.

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And after a while - "if there are versions of me here, there is presumably a document with pictures and names and notes on everyone in what you, ah, called 'the ensemble'."

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"...I'll ask." He's expecting some sort of dossier to exist on everybody in-bar if there are yous here?

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Yeah - I guess I can excise stuff on the evil versions - 

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Lemme know when you've got a redacted version unchiplocked.

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He does that.

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And Cam slides the results across the bar to Matt.

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And he reads it and says "Okay. I can write up a summary of the history of my world with emphasis on apparent points of divergence and of course on everything that happened - after. I am reluctant to do that because most people would respond very badly to hearing it, and I don't know you well enough to know if your bad reaction will include 'failing to get the Silmarils and my father and brothers', and you need to do that because given the Silmarils and forty years my father can certainly kill a Vala.

 

I can promise we're not currently a danger to anyone but the whole point is that we'll have the means to kill a Vala, so we'll need a means to establish trust which isn't our present helplessness."

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"Trust is nice. Uh, I am not people-psychic like your template is, which isn't helping."

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"Sorry, isn't helping with trust or isn't helping you navigate me, I don't expect anyone to have the skillset for that, I'll start acting like whatever you find easiest to handle and respond to in a little bit but trust built off personal charisma is not the way to go here so I haven't tried figuring it out yet."

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"Instances of your template... vary. I'm not saying you're interpersonally difficult, I'm saying I have a very confused baseline for what you might be like."

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"I'm not really like anything."

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"...which is not particularly informative. Maybe this'll shake out easier when Edie's alt is here and can vouch?"

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"I haven't seen her in thirty thousand years, and thirty thousand years ago I did have an authentic self and preferences about things and mannerisms that weren't artificial."

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Wow this guy is depressing and Cam is vaguely worried about his own Maitimo for an entirely new set of reasons. "Or not. I really don't know what to tell you."

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"It is good that Idaia's coming. Tyelcormo will be happy."

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"That is the impression I got, yes."

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"They were married. Do your kind of Elves do the soul bonding thing?"

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"Sort of but I kind of doubt it'd work outside the species at least with anyone who wasn't chipped - the Elves in question are cyborgs slightly different ways, Singularity has naturally developing cyborg chips and Abbadon has them implanted at age three. Edie and Emily got chips, daeva can do that - I haven't wanted one."

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He blinks. "Okay. Our version, if you marry someone outside the species you just get a one-sided soul bond. I don't think Tyelcormo knew before he tried it that it'd work that way, but that's how it did work."

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"Sounds awkward."

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"I think they both liked the results but it meant he has pretty much been in constant agony since she died."

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"...well. That sucks. Good thing she's mysteriously alive somehow."

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"Very mysterious," he says flatly.

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"I can't explain it," says Cam, spreading his hands, "I don't know what you're guessing happened."

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"Did Tyelcormo explain anything at all -"

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"He kind of freaked out when he saw Edie and has not been overwhelmingly communicative since?"

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"That makes sense. I thought he had at least told you that I spent objectively-fifty-years subjectively-countless-centuries in Angband."

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"...on the Ardas with cyborgs people in Angband are destructively uploaded and I've never heard from someone who had memories of the experience so I don't have even an analogue of what to expect there."

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"I remember at least twelve instances of being rescued or released or escaping or dying and going to Mandos. The first eleven were all a lie. This one's gone on longer but I don't have much confidence in it. I will not participate in activities that could be of use to the Enemy though this setup is sufficiently bizarre that I can't imagine what he'd be getting out of it and I will be as helpful as I can. I do not like expressing what makes me comfortable or happy. I will have a hard time volunteering explanations for strange events other than 'whoever is running this thought it would be funny' and I will be delighted if anyone can figure out a way for my kind of Elf to stop existing entirely. Given a little bit of time I'll figure out how I should act so you can interact normally with me."

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"...okay."

Cam writes this up and relays it to his Maitimo and are you the Only Sane Maitimo??

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That would be kind of inconvenient. Though I think anyone'd be insane under the conditions described.

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I mean I don't blame him but it's getting really weird that all yous have their own brand of what-the-fuck going on.

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I promise I really actually don't have any brands of what-the-fuck going on!

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You have been pleasingly void of same! But your alts, oh my god!

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I like this one better than the last one but his hair really creeps me out.

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That it's short or that he's trying to look older?

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Short. I am pretty sure it is physically painful to keep it that way, for us.

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Oh.

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He asks Bar for today's Wall Street Journal and sits there quietly, reading it.

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And a moment later, the other demon comes back through the door--

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--followed immediately thereafter by an all but identical woman.

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Who he throws himself at with something of an anguished shriek.

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"Dearheart? You--oh--oh, love, I'm here, I'm here--"

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"You are, you are, you are, it's you - how - are you safe, are you happy, are you okay -"

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"I'm fine, I'm safe, I was perfectly happy except for missing you..."

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"How are you alive -"

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"Dunno. Reincarnation, not naive resurrection, no idea besides that."

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"Oh dearheart--I love you, I wish I had come back sooner--"

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"I think I shall be glad you didn't," he says drily, setting down the Wall Street Journal. "Idaia - how old are you -"

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"I am technically legally sixteen right now, which is the age of consent in Utah and only under the age of consent in California if you're not married. Besides, what I actually meant was that I wished I had come back to life sooner."

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"Ah. That one I'll grant you."

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Idaia Idaia Idaia Idaia

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Right here, I'm right here, dearheart, I love you so much.

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I'm so sorry - so sorry -

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...For what?

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You died!!

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You were unconscious!

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I shouldn't have been!

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You had no idea that was going to happen.

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And that doesn't matter because it did and you died - you died -

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It sounds like that caused you a hell of a lot more grief than it did me, I'm fine.

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Cling.

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Oh dearheart, oh sweetheart, I'm here, I'm here, I hate that that happened to you but I'm right here now, it's over, it's over, here, love you.

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It's okay. Everything's okay, long as you're here.

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I'll never leave you again, I'm so sorry.

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It's okay, we're safe, this bar pauses time, we could stay in here a thousand years if we wanted and nothing would happen to us, we'd be safe forever, we are safe forever...

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...I'm mortal again.

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Dad was working on that. He'll work on it faster. And they've got a lot of weird magic here, they might already have something -

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Okay. Okay. If I've got you and I'm not going to die everything'll be fine--we should get Imliss, too--is everyone else here already?

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They're getting everyone. And the Silmarils.

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Oh good. Love you.

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Idaia Idaia Idaia Idaia

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Right here, right here. love you so much.

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Dad tried resurrection. Couldn't get anywhere, said maybe someday. 

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It's someday.

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Squeeze. Yeah. And aloud, "Idaia's mortal, do you guys have a cure for that yet?"

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"Short of 'be a summoner, die, be a daeva' no. Nechar might be able to do something but he doesn't work outside of his world or Milliways."

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"It's okay, my dad was fifteen years out on a solution and when I tell him I have Idaia I bet he can make it ten. We're forty from something scalable, though."

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"Well, when the door is closed you've got time and the infirmary should handle anything shorter term."

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Idaia Idaia Idaia Idaia -

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I'm not gonna die I have you back this is the best day of this life. So far, anyway.

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We'll have so many better ones.

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So many. So much better. Oh, Tyelcormo, I love you so.

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Hugs.

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Such hugs. She missed hugging him so much. And--are you sitting in front of the door for a reason?

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Yeah, not-my-brother Maitimo's supposed to make sure someone else holds it if I don't, but he can't hold it himself, that's, like, the way the interdimensional bar works - hey, not my brother Maitimo -

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We should pick nicknames. I'll make sure your coworker gets it.

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Great.

 

He waits. 

Now we can go inside.

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Can we get a room? I am in every relevant way psychologically myself but I do have to deal with adolescent hormones and I missed you very much.

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I have no idea but we could ask the bar - uh, bar, can we get a room -

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Of course. Would you care to open a tab or pay now?

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Uh, I can give you my bank account number? I don't have my wallet on me - 

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I can take the card number.

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So he gives the bar his credit card number and says to Nelyo "uh, can you make sure there's enough money in my account to cover it?"

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"Sure."

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"Oh, you don't have to do that, Bar accepts counterfeit currency. ...I can make counterfeit currency, I can make just about anything, I normally don't make counterfeit currency because this fucks with economies but money given to Bar isn't entering an economy."

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"...it's not? What is it doing?"

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"As far as I can tell, getting destroyed. Bar? Am I wrong?"

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I don't track its disposition after I accept it.

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"...What does you accepting it consist of?"

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I've never successfully described the sensation.

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"Can you bounce it to one of the non-Space Elves and have them bounce it to me?"

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I suspect the limitation is not one of napkins but of mental architecture.

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"I do not think giving her counterfeit currency is strongly likely to be more disruptive to anything than giving her non-counterfeit currency," she reports to traumaMaitimo.

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"...okay. In that case by all means pay the magic interdimensional bar with counterfeit currency."

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Edie pays the magic interdimensional bar with counterfeit currency.

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So then they have a room and will go find it immediately.

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"Wait--first--you said you could make--anything?" she asks her alt.

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"...Not antimatter, have to be able to specify it well enough."

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"Can you recreate our wedding rings?"

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"...I should be able to do that!"

She does that.

She tosses over one glass and one metal-and-gemstone ring.

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"Thank you," he says fervently, and puts it on, and clasps her hand and glows at her like the day they first exchanged these -

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 - Except that this time it's her turn to be too overwhelmed with happiness to actually put the ring on.

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He'll put it on her. 

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She thinks about the parallelism and raises his hand to her lips to kiss the knuckle just below the ring and beams at him and is so, so happy.

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And so, so, getting carried away upstairs right now, that's a thing that is happening.

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Ooh!

She definitely does not object but she might be kind of accidentally obstructive if he finds her throwing her arms around his neck without being overly careful about his hair and kissing him especially distracting.

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Yep very distracting but he's not in fact going to stop moving, that just delays them finding their room - why is it hard to find their room - how many rooms does this place have -

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Too many! But then Idaia sees their door number almost by accident and points it out to him and fumbles with the doorknob since he has his hands full with her.

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Yes he does.

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And then the door is open and they can go through and she can kick it closed and oh look there's a bed right there.

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I missed you - oh I missed you - oh I missed you -

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Oh, love. I missed you too and I had such a short span to do it in, I can't imagine what it must have been like for you, but it's over now, it's over, I'm here and safe safe safe.

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Forever and ever and ever. He flops with her onto the bed and kisses her and bursts with relief and joy and the feeling of breathing for the first time in millenia -

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Oh, love--and she wriggles so instead of being half on top of his upper torso she's pressed against him as much as possible, as much of her against as much of him as she can manage, and she kisses him, and she twines their fingers together so that glass clicks against metal.

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Idaia -

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Right here.

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Yes she is.

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Other things she is: tugging the ponytail holder out of his hair.

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Hers is still braided. He will fix that.

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Humans do not have hair as anywhere near as much of a thing as Elves but someone you love dearly fiddling with it still feels very, very nice. He is wearing a shirt; he should stop.

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Look at that.

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She makes a pleased noise and mouths down to his collarbones and observes that they are both still wearing more fabric than is optimal, i.e. any.

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Yet another fixable problem. 

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The small corner of her brain not occupied with how much she wants him and doing things about this observes that she's going to have to get her alt back up here to get dressed unless the room contains a convenient wardrobe or something. It's a very small corner.

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He does not have even that much space for advance planning. He has Idaia. 

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He does have Idaia! And she has her husband back and her wedding ring back and she is safe and if this is a dream please please let her never wake up.

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Yeah pretty much. 

 

It's a lovely dream, if it is one.

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Idaia slept in very late that morning and is absolutely flooded with endorphins and adrenaline and all sorts of other good chemicals that keep you going and is rather motivated to be actively experiencing joy at her beloved for as long as she can and it is going to be some time before she finally falls into exhausted, contented sleep.

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He will not sleep at all, just stare adoringly at her and watch her and occasionally cry for no reason.

 

...food. Food is a thing they require. Um, magic makes-random-stuff-Idaia?

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(Earlier)

"Okay, so that was a thing," she says, once her alt and her boyfriend's alt have vanished up the stairs.

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"That was a very - thing - thank you for doing that for him, by the way - and for her, I guess - are we just parking here with the door open until all of the local Fëanorians can be rounded up? Because 'curing mortality' and 'using the Silmarils to kill magic god Valar' were both mentioned and both these things sound tempting."

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"I think that's the plan, yeah, and I do indeed find ending mortality highly appealing."

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This place is about to close for the evening and I can only get so far by throwing around the promise of locally valuable objects while not speaking the language.

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Edie relays this to Depressing Maitimo and asks him for suggestions.

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He sighs, stands up, pulls out his badge, goes and tells the Zion National Park ranger station that it's the site of an NSA investigation and requests everyone's names, dates of birth, contact information, and current address. I can only do that once, he comments when the station's empty, and then sits down leaning against the door so it stays open.

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Once we've got your entire family and the not-on-Venus Silmarils in here we don't need the door open until we're ready to fetch the on-Venus Silmaril and/or render everyone immortal.

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And it doesn't sound like you need my job for anything. It's mostly useful to have access to all information that's been committed to electronic form and you have that already.

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Pretty much, yeah!

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Do we have an estimate on when anyone else gets retrieved?

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"Good question. Cam?"

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"Am I meant to have been fetching anyone else? I wasn't given any other locations."

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"Curufin's running a secret immortality research lab at MIT; that's the scalable version that's still a ways out. My father's in Canada -" he sends the location, it won't be easily findable otherwise - "the twins are with him, Caranthir's on Wall Street, Maglor's on a beach in the U.S. Virgin Islands."

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"Should they possibly be warned that a small shuttle under heavy cloud cover may come fetch them?"

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"They have been; I've been relaying them everything."

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"Okay then." And Cam sends drones. He can pilot this many at once and make them clouds as long as he is not too distracted.

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Well, he's not going to be distracting, sitting here on the ground in a black suit with his knees pulled up tightly against his chest.

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He's also not feeling very distracting.

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Then all of these people will receive drones and be ferried back.

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At some point in the interim he'll eat. And offer his alt something.

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"Whatever you're having. I would ordinarily say 'modulo concern for the state of my clothes' but if Cam and Edie are going to stay around -"

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"We're all in here for the long haul. ...we should check if summoning works in your world, Edie want to draw me a circle -"

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Edie gives him a piece of paper with a nice well-bound fairy circle on it minus a tiny bit of circle for him to fill in.

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And he sets it on the floor of the ranger station and completes it.

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No fairy.

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"Edie, did your binding stick when you went adventuring -"

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"I have no idea. My binding is fantastically loose and I'd have a hard time testing it if I wanted to."

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"You can check whether you could melt my chip without actually doing it, right?"

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"...No? How would I do that?"

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"The way I understood it was that it'd disrupt formation of the intention?"

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"...Maybe. I've never tried something like that before and I'm not going to test it on you and risk accidentally frying your chip. Tyelcormo, can I check to see if I can drug you unconscious? Oh, and we need to fetch Idaia's sister, it would be super embarrassing if we made the same mistake with her that we did with Emily."

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"Yep, but we might wanna go out into the new dimension - have we got a name for it - since what we're interested in is whether the binding's present there -" He stands up. "Where's Idaia's sister?"

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She checks. "...MIT. You can get her with the same drone as Curufin if there's room for two people."

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"What, and they didn't know about each other?" Ranger station!

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"Well, she's been there for less than half a year, if he's as introverted as I could guess from the ten of 'em upstairs it's not that surprising they haven't crossed paths yet, it's a big university."

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"Yeah, fair. Knock me out, baby."

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She tries. "Nothing doing, binding's still on."

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"Great, okay, then we'll just do imports."

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"What -"

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"My brother wants to be emperor of the multiverse so my dads are working on persistent portals. Plan is to go world-to-world and dump infrastructure and so forth on them, but if we've got to do it all with forks of Ada it's gonna be a bit more challenging. This means we can just figure out a sufficiently-safe binding and then summon demons for help. Also means we can snag ourselves a Melkor and then go put him somewhere he really really can't hurt anyone - our Valar are daeva, they're the only ones so far, and we're two-for-two on swords-and-sorcery Ardas versus normal ones."

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"I see."

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"Anyway." He heads back inside and plops on the couch. "Names for the new world, anyone?"

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"Reversi?"

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"Isn't that a game? That's barely better than my idea."

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"Ozymandias."

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"That one. We're going with that one."

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"I should catch you up on everything."

So he does - well, most of everything, he says that in Mirror their alt is an amoral but capable-enough-it'll-be-a-hassle-to-depose him dictator but nothing else, he describes the opening of Singularity's war and then says the world's on pause until resurrection is possible and then heads on to Abaddon, he makes up for the paucity there with extended digressions into summoning and how it works and FTL and how it works-as-far-as-I-understand-I'm-not-an-engineer and they've been experimenting with magic songs and they're finally going to have a Macalaurë, which will be great for morale, and here's the emperor-of-the-multiverse plans.

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"You're not sworn to anything -"

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"Nope. I am - acutely aware of all the ways I can apparently mess up - but I think I've got people around me who'll catch it -"

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"And when they die -"

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"Cam's indestructible."

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...he looks very confused a couple seconds but does not comment.

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(Cam thought 'Reversi' was great.) "It's pretty convenient."

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"I suppose for a certain sort of person it would be."

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"...yeah."

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"Enemy's going to die. All of the versions of him."

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"Why do you think that's finite."

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"Well isn't that a cheering thought."

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"I was going to observe that magic that'll kill a magic Vala will probably also take a magic Elf and if he wants - out - versions of me who are not in constant agony can handle doing the things he cares about, but actually I think I might need him to stay around being a counterweight should I ever experience a moment's optimism."

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"I would very dearly like to die but it can wait. Has waited."

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And then the shuttles start arriving.

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(earlier)

The shuttle is right where Idaia's apparent alternate-universe version said it would be.

...She didn't get there first. This probably wouldn't be less awkward if she had.

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"...hi."

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She bites her lip. "Hi."

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It's kind of an awkwardly small shuttle, too. "You go to school here?"

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"Uh, yeah. Undergrad froshie. Haven't been here long."

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"That would explain how we hadn't run across each other."

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"Yeah.

Idaia's doppelganger says it's been thirty thousand years."

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"Coming up on thirty-one."

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"I have--so many things I want to say--and I don't think most of them would be a good idea even if--even if it had all happened yesterday--"

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"Go ahead."

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"I'm angry with you. I love you. I want none of this to have ever happened. I hate that you burned the boats. I hate that Artanis and the others provoked you into burning the boats. I hate that no one ever taught your dad healthy coping mechanisms. I miss you. I want to go home. I want to come home. I want to hug everyone and pretend that none of this happened and everything's okay and I know it's not. Idaia and I were going to try to fix aging on our own and become stronger than any Kilaiuossan dreamshaper ever did and storm Mandos and rescue you all and then it would be okay because you'd have enough proof that we loved you and were on your side that I could yell at your dad without him taking it as an attack. I promised myself that no matter what I'd forgive you all one day when a Nolofinwean said Idaia had to admit Feanaro was crazy and unfit for the kingship and she didn't agree and she didn't want to say it but she felt like she had to and I just--I don't have anything else--please still love me--"

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"Of course we still love you, Imliss, you're family, you were - you were going to storm Mandos for us - how could we ever stop -"

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"I thought I didn't have anyone else in the world who would ever really love me again except Idaia. I just--I love you, I missed you, I'm mad but I never hated you, I swear I never hated you..."

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Hugs, insofar as these can be managed in the shuttle. "It's okay," he says, "I love you, we love you, you're our sister."

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She scrubs at her eyes and then hugs back. "Okay. Good. I just--thirty thousand years--"

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"It was worse than you can possibly imagine. It does not change that we're a family."

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"When I imagined storming Mandos I pretended to myself that things could just be okay after and I think I always knew deep down that wasn't how it worked. But."

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"Right now I have no idea what the fuck is going on and can't say whether we'll come out of it okay."

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"If this is something hostile trying to trick us one advantage of horrible trauma is that I can create so much fucking ice in their faces they won't know what hit them if they try to hurt any of us."

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"Something hostile with little remotely-piloted shuttles that can cross the country in under an hour would be scary even if you can ice them really hard."

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"Granted. I'm just going to do my best not to be scared out of my wits until we get there."

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Hugs. 

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Hugs. And eventually their shuttle lands in a national park in Utah.

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And they nervously head inside.

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"Hi! There's ten of you upstairs, should I get any of them, would that make this more or less awkward."

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"Uh.

 

No, I think I just want an explanation."

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"You can start with this," she says, and hands him the explanatory napkins.

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He reads those and says, "...okay, and you -"

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"My name's Edie Lehnsherr. I grew up on an Earth much like this one, except it never was an Arda and it has daeva! There are three kinds of daeva: demons make things, angels change things, and fairies move things. I'm a demon. It was in the vicinity of now-ish as you see it that daeva became public knowledge. I became a summoner--one summons daeva to do tasks in exchange for things, all very consensual except when things go horribly wrong. Summoners, as it turns out, become daeva when they die. My twin and I died in a car accident a few decades from now. Eventually Maitimo from Abbadon, which is one of two Space Ardas where Valinor and Endore are separate planets, summoned me. Abbadon differs from the other Space Arda--Singularity--in that Singularity has--had--long story--magic Valar and Maiar like yours, whereas Abbadon Maiar are shapeshifting hive mind beings and Abbadon Valar are daeva. Anyway, they invented transdimensional summoning to make demons easier to pay--demons can create anything if we can specify it well enough--and he got me, to make ships to cross from Valinor to Endore. Then he brought us down to the planet to get things organized--we weren't helping with that, but there was some legal stuff. So then the Valar say no one's allowed to leave. We head for Alqualonde, the nearest shuttleport.

It's my understanding that this usually involves us killing people but in Abbadon it was the Valar who killed everyone who died. And then they blamed me for it."

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He warms considerably at 'us killing people'. "Okay. And you found Milliways and then you found us -"

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"Well, first I met Cam, who is from my world originally--turns out he was responsible for making daeva public, which is fantastic--and was summoned to Singularity by accident. But yeah. Um, maybe I should let someone else explain most of the rest of this, I don't think I probably know enough technical detail to make you happy."

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"That I'll get from the alternate me. Unless most of the rest is technical details?"

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"No, but--um, I'm really not sure how to explain Mirror, which is the fourth Arda we know of. ...We currently know of four Ardas. Singularity and Abbadon are the Space ones and Mirror and yours which your Maitimo has named Ozymandias are the not-Space ones."

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"And Mirror requires technical details?"

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"In Mirror I'm evil. We're not sure if everyone is but it seems likely a lot of people are. Father was assassinated by Nolofinwë before the Oath even happened and then upheavals ensued and I ended up running the place and we've talked to the me and he's evil."

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"And what are you doing about that."

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"Trying to reform him. It's going slowly."

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"I think maybe we should wait to tell this story until everyone's here."

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"Thirty minutes tops," Cam says.

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"We've been told we'll find it upsetting."

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"Yeah. Uh, Matt -"

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"I'll tell it. I told them already why I was coping badly with being in a new environment demanding of a lot of decisions without any support -"

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"He usually exports stuff that involves having preferences and being curious to us."

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"I'd ask 'do I want to know' but obviously I don't. Tell me anyway."

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"He got captured. He was in Angband fifty years. Felt like longer. Enemy can do time-dilation. Enemy also likes breaking up his torture with hallucinations in which you are rescued."

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"Oh."

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"It's fine. I got a lovely disability benefits package after the war."

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"Noted. So where're Idaia and Tyelcormo?"

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"Got a room."

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"Why am I not surprised."

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"Because you have ever met either of them."

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"Oh, let's be fair. You have to meet both of them to expect it."

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"True, but either one is sufficient for it to be unsurprising."

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And at this point the New York City shuttle arrives, and explanations are repeated, and then the Canada shuttle is not far on its heels and Amras is mostly transparent.

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And there are hugs. This is important.

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Yeah. Hugs. Lots of disbelieving hugs. And Fëanor asks the Bar hundreds of questions about the translation magic and by the time he's satisfied Maglor's arrived and there are more hugs.

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And then, finally, a woman who looks almost exactly like Imliss walks in with a heavy black bag slung over one shoulder.

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Everyone turns around expectantly. Matt lets the door close.

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And Emily unzips the bag and pulls out a pair of astonishingly beautiful gemstones and hands them to Feanor and says, "Are the Abbadon versions this gorgeous? Because wow."

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"Yes, they are."

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"...thank you," Fëanor says.

 

He is not crying. Some other people are maybe crying. Amras stops being mostly transparent though he is shining like he's mostly made of Silmaril.

 

In Fëanor's hands they come alive and leave somehow the strong impression of a dog, abandoned for the day, racing to the door when its companion comes home, or of a child peering out from behind her parents' skirts, or of a lover rolling over in the morning to see the most beautiful person in his world beside him in bed. They set the bar ablaze. They are stunning.

 

Fëanor's hands are bleeding and the air smells like meat cooking.

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"Do you want some gloves. And directions to the infirmary."

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"Gloves yes," he says. 

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Gloves.

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"And then may I please fix your hands I am a fully qualified medical angel."

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"...sure, if it's convenient."

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"It is highly convenient and also likely to mean that the air doesn't start smelling like charred meat again if I make it stop." She makes it stop. She fixes his hands. "If I had known that was going to happen I'd've just handed you the bag. They didn't do that to me, not even the little bit my indestructability'd allow."

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"They burn evil things."

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"...Evil defined how?"

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(Look at Cam not flinching. By holding very still and not looking at anybody.)

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"Killed enough people, I think, or served the ends of the Enemy. There's a spectrum, they're worse for me than for my father."

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"Why would you build those in as the criteria -"

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"I didn't. Varda added it. As a protection for them."

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"A Vala. Why am I not surprised."

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"Even if the story is upsetting, please keep in mind that we're pretty close to immortality for humans and a way to stop Morgoths, and we're not going to hurt anyone now - if you'd like you can hold the not-engineers hostage for the engineers' good behavior, just please let us work -"

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"That bad?"

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"I'd prefer you be prepared."

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Company, just what he always wanted.

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And he tells the story of the war. From why the oath - 'needed a mission beyond 'kill the Enemy', needed people to believe we had a future outside Valinor, thought it'd be - uglier - if we arrived as conquerors, rather than immigrants - knew what the Silmarils could do, wanted to cover for that, knew people'd find 'they swore to get them back just because they were so pretty' believable enough that they might not guess how powerful they really were -

- they'd anticipated that the Enemy might hand some innocents a Silmaril in the hopes of provoking a fight, they'd been sure they could talk or bribe those innocents down and then have a Silmaril, the risk had seemed worth it -

 

- Alqualondë, how it had happened and who had died - 'I used to know all the names but the Enemy took them' - and the dissolution of the Noldor and his father's psychological collapse and Losgar and losing Imliss and Idaia -

"He didn't do it," Maglor interjects, "he tried to talk our father out of it and when that failed he refused to take part in it, he never tells people that -"

"Because it didn't save anyone -" - saving Beleriand, clearing and holding the continent, his father's death, Angband - 

- recounted clinically, without details, dates and timelines and here's-what-the-Enemy-is-capable-of -

- "and my cousin Findekáno didn't know I hadn't betrayed him to his death in Araman but he - decided I'd paid enough for it, I suppose, if so, and he wrote himself magic to get into Angband and he rescued me -"

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Oh, we're doing the 'cousin' thing, okay, Cam notes, without moving or looking at anyone.

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Explaining Mirror's going to be fun, she says to Abbadon Maitimo.

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Let's - not - right away.

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We can't put it off forever. They come downstairs sometimes.

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And he surrendered the crown and reunited the Noldor and apologized and paid back what could be paid back, of what had been done, and moved his people across the continent and built a fortress in sight of Angband - 

- the Glorious Battle, the civilian cities popping up like opportunistic wildflowers in the safety they were purchasing - Dwarves were wonderful, everyone should meet Dwarves - first contact with Men - 

- the Battle of Sudden Flame. Thingol and his viciously stupid SIlmaril quest, the Union of Maedhros, they called it, the final effort of the free peoples of Middle-earth - 

- Nirnaeth Arnoediad, it's Thindarin, means 'Tears Unnumbered' - 'my cousin Fingon died' - 

 

- and from there, clinically again, dates and facts. Fall of Nargothrond. The war of the Dwarves and the Thindar. The second sack of Menegroth. He hadn't meant Dior's children to die, someone had dragged them out into the forest and told them to run and he'd looked for them but why would they answer him, even if they'd heard his army searching? -

- fall of Gondolin.

Sack of the refugee camp at the banks of the Sirion.

 

The intervention of the Valar and how it ended and how they ended and that is the story of the war.

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Yep. Dwarves: great. That is totally the only takeaway from this. Dwarves're great.

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There are two Findekanos here and I'm not sure it wouldn't be a disaster for him to run into ours unwarned let alone the Mirror one.

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Point taken, I just - 

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"So," he says, "basically, Morgoth is fucking terrible and that's why we're here until we can kill future ones more cleanly, and no one is going to take any hostages and you guys are going to, like, take a break outside looking at the giant squid and eating popsicles and then you'll get started on curing mortality and stuff which you have all eternity to do and if the Silmaril thing runs on any kind of balance system eventually you'll have earned enough credits, and if not then you'll have learned enough magic to undo Varda's shit anyway, right?"

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"Yes, probably," Fëanor says. "Giant squid - popsicles -"

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"Uh huh, Edie and Emily and I are gonna come outside and supervise you to make sure you are relaxing enough. I love you. You aren't okay. So, lake and popsicles. Not gonna insist you act okay or promise you ever will be okay, but I insist on the lake and the fucking popsicles and also since I'm with a girl I guess it technically doesn't affect me tremendously at the moment but is your Arda one of the homophobic ones, too, because we also need to talk about that."

 

Huan is playing herding dog. 


"Yep, everyone outside."

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"I'll provide the popsicles." It kinda says something when you and I are the emotionally mature grown-ups.

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I mean, apparently my Arda is the best Arda and we were contemplating five different styles of genocide when we found the door. So, okay, everything's fucked. They're not bad people, it's not like Midnight, they just got really really - stuck. 

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Yeah. I wish there was more we could do for them.

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Yeah. Sigh. 

 

Lake. Popsicles. Huan winds between everyone and demands head scritches.

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And the door swings closed behind them, which means he has no idea how much time he has before they're right back in here -

 

He hugs Cam. 

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Hug.

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"You okay?"

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"I shouldn't care what judgmental inanimate objects would think," he mutters. "I will after some effort cease to in fact care what judgmental inanimate objects would think."

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"I think that's a good decision. ...might not even affect you, they actually did a lot of morally wrong things..."

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"If I weren't indestructible I'd go up like flashpaper, let's not kid ourselves."

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Squeeze. "I'm sorry. The magic rocks are bad at their job. Well, that one of their jobs; apparently they also kill the Enemy and that's lovely."

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Squeeze. "Yeah, killing the Enemy is pretty keen."

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"And a couple decades out on human immortality."

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"That'll be nice."

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"Yeah."

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"Especially since summoning doesn't work there."

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"And especially since that version of my brother apparently has a mortal wife and copes with her absence approximately as well as I cope with Angband."

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"Yeah, that too."

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"Bar, can we have something to eat - it's been quite a day -"

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Apple butter maple oatmeal?

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Sure. He hugs Cam and sits down and eats. 

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And he stops downstairs - "couple dozen drink orders, Bar, if it's not too much trouble, we're celebrating - oh, no, what happened."

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"Later."

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"What'cha celebrating?" Cam asks, as a tray of drinks appears.

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"Got a way to leave a conjurable distress message on your chip. Not through a blessing at all, just through the indelible chip-writing mechanism you also invoke for oaths. I'm sure there's a way around it but the only one I expect to actually be in use is 'forking people from before they're taught how to do this' and we might be able to regularly check for that without too much trouble."

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"Oh, cool. Congratulations."

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He gives them both another searching look and takes the drinks and heads upstairs. 

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"There's a new me. He's kind of a wreck - was in Angband - and you might scare him so tread carefully if you see him. Has a human haircut."

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"I'll keep an eye out, thank you."

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"Brought in the complete set of Fëanaro and sons from that world," Cam adds, "and the Tyelcormo is married to another Edie so her and her sister are here now too, they're human."

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"Quite the little circus you're acquiring. Is there an accessible me?"

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"Didn't sound like it, didn't ask specifically."

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"They think they can take magic god Valar."

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"Well, that'd be fantastic. Also means we now have a Macalaurë, yes?"

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"We do."

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"I don't have the faintest idea how to schedule a concert with Milliways being Milliways but we should schedule a concert - Cam, can I have complete works of my alt in that world, mostly out of idle curiosity -"

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Cam hands him a soft copy.

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"Thanks." And he pockets it and heads upstairs with his tray of drinks.

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And he rests his head on Cam's shoulder and sighs.

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Snuggles. Oatmeal.

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And this is the point at which he asks magic-Idaia-who-can-make-stuff for clothes!

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Meanwhile, Edie is finally contacted by Ozymandias Tyelcormo.

Yes?

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Uh, we should go get food or something, and neither of us have any clothes.

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Oh, so the literally destroying each other's clothing getting each other out of them thing isn't deterred by neither of you being a demon? I'll come up, pull a blanket over yourselves.

"I'm heading in for a bit, your alt needs me to provide material objects," she tells her boyfriend.

 

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"Okay."  

 

He is intermittently eating popsicles and hugging everyone and crying and trying to explain chips and stuff to them.

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She hugs him and makes a cooler full of enough popsicles to tide them over for a while in case Milliways time subjectivity decides to fuck with them and goes inside.

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He is still clinging to Idaia and murmuring her name.

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"I should probably have a conversation with my boyfriend about all this at some point," she muses. "Anyway. Food and clothes. Preferences?"

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"Not really." Idaia-squeeze.

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"Can you think of any preferences she's likely to have?"

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He sends some things Idaia used to like wearing and eating. This makes him sad so he cuddles her more.

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So Edie makes a nice pretty wooden wardrobe containing a mix of replicas of Idaia's favorite outfits from Valinor and things Edie guesses she'll like based on their altlyness and a differently-carved wardrobe containing mostly replicas of things she's put her Tyelcormo in without him objecting, because there was something vaguely depressing about his work uniform, and a fridge full of assorted appropriate foods and a box full of nonperishables.

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"Thank you very much."

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"You're welcome." She sits down carefully on the edge of the bed. "I'm glad you two are alright."

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"She's alive."

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"Maybe at some point we can even figure out how."

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"Yeah, maybe. Did you get the whole story?"

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"Yeah."

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He squeezes Idaia again.

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"I'm not even desperately in love with you and I don't hate you for it, so she should be fine, if you were worried."

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"I was until I saw her and then I wasn't, at all. She's - I don't know what she'll say but I know she'll love me."

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"I expect there will be hugs. Imliss hugged your brothers kind of a lot while the story was being told."

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"How's she doing."

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"...Decompressing."

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"Okay. We'll come say hi to everybody. At some point."

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"Don't worry about when. In addition to pausing time while the door's closed time does not always pass at the same rates between different parts of Milliways."

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"Weird. And good to know."

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"Yeah." She glances at her alt. "I'd want to hug her if she was awake, but it's not worth interrupting her sleep over. Convey the sentiment when she does wake up?"

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"For sure. Thank you for finding her."

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"You're very much welcome."

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"And for our wedding rings."

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If she is careful she can hug him without disturbing sleepyalt. She does this.

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Hug. "Tell your me hi."

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"I will," she says, and then leaves the room.

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And he watches Idaia until she wakes and listens to her dreams.

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And when she wakes she notices he's there-flinches away from the thought, expecting to realize she was imagining it--realizes she isn't--remembers yesterday--and opens her eyes and beams at him.

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Your magic alt made us some food.

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I am not yet hungry enough to make eating more appealing than kissing you.

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Well in that case.

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Oh, yes. She cannot really cling much tighter but she can adjust her grip from "generalized sleepy limpet-like cuddling" to "making out, hands in hair" for sure.

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Love you love you we're safe forever we're okay forever -

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She is not so much doing words right now but she can do a general rush of affirmation and love and desire.

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Breakfast later.

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Yes. And when she does get to the point where breakfast is an improvement over not that she sees the contents of the fridge and beams at him.

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"Did I remember okay?"

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"You remembered fantastic."

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She kisses him and consumes delicious food items and drags him back to bed.

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What a great idea.

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She has those sometimes!

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All of the time, even!!

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Eventually she gets hungry again, and eats, and then drags her husband back to bed. Eventually she gets tired, and sleeps, and then wakes up and kisses her husband some more. Eventually she observes that hygiene exists, and tends to it, and then drags her husband back to bed.

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They have thirty thousand years to make up for, after all.

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They do!

But several probably-subjective-days (they haven't really been keeping track) later, she freezes.

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Mmmm?

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I'm mortal again.

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Dad'll probably have a solution in ten years if he hurries, and I think it has definitely been communicated that he should hurry. The other versions of him might speed it up even more, not sure.

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No--I mean--I don't have Orome's aging solution anymore--so I don't have his birth control solution anymore either.

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Oh.

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Yeah. Oh.

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Does this world have solutions for that - if not, it's okay, there are other things we can do -

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It does but I wasn't using any of them--obviously until I found out you were alive I obviously didn't think I was going to be having sex--and then I just didn't think--

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It's okay, I didn't either - I knew humans had accidental children -

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It might not be too late, women don't just automatically get pregnant every time they possibly could...

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I would be freaking out way more if we thought you actually were. But still. We should have thought of that. 's important.

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Yeah. Okay.

What if I am, though?

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I mean, um, then my brothers will scold me and we'll have to find a hospital and stuff, mortal pregnancy is dangerous...

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They mentioned an infirmary...

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Might notta been paying any attention.

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We should get my alt up here, check, get the pills if it's not too late...

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That's gonna be an awkward conversation, you wanna do it?

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I really don't wanna leave this room until we know, can you just--ask her to come up without saying why?

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Squeeze. Snuggle. Uh, Edie?

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Yeah?

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Can you come up real quick.

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...Hadn't finished getting back down the stairs. Sure. 

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Wait really? It's been, like, I think less than a week but I'm not sure, could easily have been a week - does that mean it might feel like several days before you get here -

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It doesn't seem to generally be quite that inconvenient.

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Cool. Well, thank you for coming back. 

And to Idaia, "she's on her way. How long does it even take before you can tell -"

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"I--I don't know--"

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"Well, it's not very likely, and we probably wouldn't be able to tell yet, and it's okay no matter what, we're here and safe..."

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"Okay. Okay. 

I love you so much."

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"I love you so much. Let's be less stupid about it - let's have kids in ten years once we're more okay -"

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"Yeah.

If it's not too late."

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"Not likely."

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"I know."

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"I love you."

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"I know. I love you too.

 

I know it's not likely. I know waiting ten years is better on every possible axis.

But I want it so much."

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"Oh, Idaia. We'll be very good parents, once we're - once I'm - I haven't even told you everything that happened during the war, I murdered a lot of people -"

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"Tell me," she murmurs.

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So he does, not as coherently or in as much order as Nelyo told everyone downstairs, and without much detail after his death in Doriath -

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And she hugs him, and presses her forehead against his, and is sad and loves him.

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And they are cuddling when Edie arrives.

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"Hey. You needed me?"

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He buries his head in his wife's arms and mumbles to her, you do the talking.

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"Um. We, um. Both, forgot, that my previous Vala-sourced birth control solution is no longer in effect."

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"Of course. He said it had been about a week, I assume you've--"

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"Yes."

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"Okay. So for now--fancy future birth control pills," she hands her a bottle, "and fancy future condoms--do you know how condoms work?"

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"No."

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"A condom is a thin cover that goes over your penis so that when you ejaculate the semen goes into it and not your partner. The ones available in the early days of the twenty-first century had a small but non negligible failure rate; they've improved since then on my Earth."

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"I am pretty sure I can also just decide to be sterile, I don't know how exactly but it should definitely be possible -"

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"Is this the kind of thing where you would definitely know if you had done it right?"

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"Not definitely enough, we should also use some of Edie's tech stuff, but pretty definitely -"

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"Okay. Fancy future pills of this particular variety won't do anything if you've already knocked her up by accident, and will take probably only a few days but potentially up to a month before working reliably, so until then use the condoms if you're going to have vaginally penetrative intercourse. And here is a fancy future clock, which will keep track of your subjective time for you. And here is a box of pee-on-a-stick pregnancy tests. Should be reliable after three weeks subjective."

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Idaia-squeeze. "Thanks."

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"Yeah. Thanks."

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"You're both welcome. Anything else?"

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"We've still got a fair bit of food." And haven't even touched the clothes. "Thanks."

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"You're welcome. Let me know if you need anything else."

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"Mmmhmm."

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She leaves again.

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"I love you."

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Love you so much. So so much. 

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She basks in the affection for a moment, sending her own in return. "That could have been more awkward," she says after a bit.

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"Your alt is very nice and did not yell at us."

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"She was exasperated. ...And jealous."

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"Wait, what?"

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"I guess I could have been reading her wrong, but that's what it looked like."

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"I mean, she and her me are psychologically healthy and stuff and could, like, responsibly have a kid if they wanted."

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"Yeah, I don't know what was up with that. Remind me to ask her later."

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"Will do." Snuggles.

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Snuggle. "I keep coming back to, what if the test comes out positive...we had a lot of sex, people getting pregnant from just once is totally a thing..."

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"Couple weeks before we know, right? Do you want to spend a couple weeks worrying - is there a way for that not to happen -"

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"I don't think I can not worry at all for the next few weeks but you can definitely take my mind off it a great deal of the time."

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"Oh, good, I'll do that."

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She kisses him.

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The new batch of Fëanorians requisitions a couple of rooms to get to work, and Maglor decides to settle the concert scheduling problem by setting up a place to live outside and then singing whenever anyone is around. Most of the engineering teams take some time off to listen. 

 

Matt Carter spends all of his time at the bar reading. He is polite and friendly and will make some faintly entertaining jokes when addressed, but he does not initiate any conversations and he will volunteer if asked that he plans to do exactly this for as long as needed. 

 

Maitimo (who is mulling nicknames along the lines of 'there but for the grace of the landlords'...) is worried by this. He tells Midnight everything and pleads with him not to come down to the bar and complicate everything and offers to bring him and Forever all of their meals. Midnight wants to take his boyfriend to hear Maglor singing but is happy not to complicate everything.

 

Maglor is an exquisitely depressing singer.

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Cam limits his dosage of depressing singing, but he goes out sometimes and listens.

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At some point he asks him if he has anything uplifting in his repertoire. He does, apparently; he's been pretending to be an Earth pop star and can also do no-longer-toned-down-for-human-audiences late-20th-century pop concerts.

 

It is unclear if this is an improvement but it's different.

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Edie is impressed with literally everything Macalaure sings.

And at an opportune moment she says, "So, we should probably talk about the implications of our alts," to her boyfriend.

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"You mean the bit where they're happily married or the bit where they're horribly traumatized?"

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"Mostly the former, since I'm a demon and therefore constitutionally unable to die for thirty thousand years."

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"And if I try it you can just fetch me! I would ask the Tyelcormo how they decided to get married but he's, um, inaccessible - guess I could ask one of his brothers -"

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"Or her sister, yeah."

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And a little later when they're in the bar, "hey, Matt, d'you'know how your Tyelcormo and Idaia decided to get married?"

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"They had known each other for a week and were possessed with more disdain for custom than self-control."

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"Uh, what?"

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"They got married in the woods a week after meeting."

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"I feel like this is another Normal Arda/Shiny Tree Arda thing?"

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"Our Arda has not had any shiny trees for thirty one thousand years. ...can your kind of Elf have sex without getting married?"

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"Yes, yes we can, what the actual fuck."

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"How does that even work?"

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"You mean mechanically? When a man and a woman love each other very much or have other, less noble motivations, if they engage in acts which can lead to reproduction then an irrevocable soul bond will form and the fact they are married will be visible to everyone and they will have that connection forever, though it's technically possible to marry multiply."

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"You soul-bond to everyone you ever sleep with what the fuck -"

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"Plural marriages are very rare and very very frowned upon."

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"Yikes, man."

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"I think we are more monogamously- and permanancy- inclined than you."

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"Still."

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"And our alts decided to do this after knowing each other a week?"

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"It was exceedingly silly of them but worked out well enough until she died."

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"Does this means that everyone who isn't visibly married is a virgin-"

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He actually makes a facial expression other than detached politeness. "No, actually, for some reason Angband doesn't count."

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"Sorry, I -"

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"Idaia and Tyelcormo had a very happy marriage and I think would recommend it even to people who have the option of sex outside marriage."

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"Thanks."

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She squeezes his hand.

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And back outside - I know that's not literally the most fucked up thing about that world but that is pretty fucked up.

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I wonder why our alts did that. I mean, I'm glad it worked out, both for their sake and the example, but gorgeous as you are I don't see myself consenting to permanent soul welding just for sex.

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Idaia's human so it might be one-sided permanent soul welding. But - yeah. A week is not that long to get to know someone you're thinking about spending forever with. 

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We should ask Imliss why Idaia did that. Dunno if any of your brothers know your alt's reasoning.

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Sure. Where is she?

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I think she's outside listening to her Macalaure.

Maybe his nickname should be Orpheus, all things considered.

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He laughs and kisses his girlfriend and goes off to find Imliss.

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She is in fact outside listening to Macalaure sing.

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"Hey. Your Maitimo told us that our alts got married within a week of meeting each other and we were kind of wondering why they did that. Well, mostly Edie was; I fell for her pretty fast so I can kind of see it but then again here marriage isn't an irreversible soul bond thing."

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"How much do you actually know about us? Besides the obvious."

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"Uh, nothing? Alts aren't even reliably that similar to each other, cultural context seems to affect some people a lot, so..."

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So Imliss tells the story of the Shit That Went Down before they came to Valinor

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"I'm so sorry." Hug?

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Hug. "So to answer your question, Idaia married your alt because she was fantastically insecure about the ability of people other than me and our late parents to meaningfully love her."

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"Okay. I'll tell Edie."

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"For the record, she married him because he had demonstrated the ability to meaningfully love her and she was clinging to that like a desperate octopus, not because she didn't trust him without the soul bond."

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"I mean, it was clearly working fine until it was a disaster."

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"I don't think it would be less of a disaster if they had waited."

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"Yeah, fair. Thanks." And he relays all this to Edie.

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Wow. 

I'm glad we get a better courtship than that.

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I'd say it was cute if not for ensuing horribleness.

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It was cute and should not be blamed for subsequent horribleness but I'm still glad we're doing it this way instead.

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Yup. And our kind of marriage isn't even irreversible!

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D'you want to get married?

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Yes. I was thinking it'd maybe be nice to have all my family present but on the other hand that involves waiting a century and everyone'll be super busy once they're back in the timestream.

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Yes, pity about that. What are your culture's marriage customs?

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Uh, you get engaged, you're engaged for a year, you make each other custom blessings and then select some of the marriage ones, you declare whose family the children'll be part of for inherited title purposes, you have a party.

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Measuring a a year in here would be...non-trivial.

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Yeah we can probably just announce it's been long enough whenever we feel like it.

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Agreed. At least long enough for me to learn blessing design, I think, I wouldn't have the foggiest clue how to do custom blessings now.

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They don't have to be fancy, lots of peoples' are entirely for show. 

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Yes, but I don't know how to do it at all and you deserve something legitimately excellent.

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Alright. Go learn blessing design, dear, and then we will get married after something resembling a respectable wait.

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She kisses him. Any cultural signals of engagement?

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You usually annouce it but no. In yours?

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Rings on the third finger of the left hand.

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We could do that.

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And in a specific style--she shows him mental images of a variety of engagement rings. And then wedding rings to go with them when you actually get married.

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Let's look at a catalogue and pick out some pretty ones, then.

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I dunno, catalogs generally only have stuff it's practical to make even if you're not a demon.

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There aren't demon catalogues?

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...No, there totally are, I'd just rather come up with the design for yours out of whole cloth.

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Okay, fair.

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You can use a catalog if you want, though.

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How about I surprise you.

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Okay! What are your favorite colors?

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Red, silver?

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Okay, I can work with that.

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You?

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Blue and yellow/gold.

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Okay. Kiss.

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Kiss! Should we drag the engineers down for a break and tell them we're engaged?

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I'd like that. 

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Let's do that, then!

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And everyone is informed of their engagement!

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"Congratulations!"

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"Thanks! We hope to be less melodramatic about it than our alts."

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"Yep! Though alt vetting is super convenient - well, unless one's alts are Maitimos and all variously disasters, in that case it's probably worse than nothing at all to go off, but the mes and Edies seem - similar - did'you check if the new Earth has a you on it -"

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"Not yet -" Check. "Nope."

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"Maybe you're unique in the multiverse. Anyway, I might ask you to make me an engagement ring for Edie, it'd spoil the surprise to have her do it, but I don't have it set yet -"

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"No problem, let me know when you've got it specced."

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And he hugs his brother and congratulates him and grumbles about how he'll possibly come up with anniversary presents with demon in-laws and looks utterly delighted for them both.

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"I'm sure you'll think of something," she assures him. "We're going to tell the engineers next--oh, hell, I'm going to have ten fathers-in-law, that'll be interesting."

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She has ten cheerful and congratulatory father-in-laws! Who will consent to stop their work for an engagement party!

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Excellent, she is in favor both of parties and of engineers taking a break without having to be dragged.

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It's a lovely party. Demons make party planning fairly unnecessary. The depressing Maglor turns out to have a non-depressing and non-20th-century-pop repertoire and does some fast-paced romantic songs from his Valinor for them.

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Awesome.

"We should at least invite our alts," she tells her new fiancé.

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"Oh, yeah -" hey, magic Tyelcormo, Edie and I are having an engagement party, want to come?

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He conveys this to Idaia.

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"That sounds fantastic, actually. ...how long has it been since Edie came up last?" She fumbles for the fancy future clock.

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"Wasn't paying attention, sorry."

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She finds the clock. "Three hours," she announces. "Anyway. Let's find out what she put in those pretty wardrobes."

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Pretty clothing! Pretty, suggestive, futuristic, weird clothing but he can roll with that. It will be a challenge to get dressed while not letting go of Idaia but he's very motivated.

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Idaia briefly cries when she finds a copy of the dress she arrived in Valinor in.

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Hugs. Well, they were already hugging, but more hugs.

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Yes good.

I think I'm going to ask her for at least some of our wedding presents.

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Sounds fair. We inspired them to get married, that's kind of cute.

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It is! I am quite pleased to have done this for her, every one of me should have one of you.

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Indeed. We shall go around the multiverse matchmaking.

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Mhm! Remember when I brought up the possibility of alts, back in Valinor, and you said it was wildly improbable?

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No, actually, but I believe you -

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You said you'd want to be sad about it if you hadn't met me and I framed the question in terms of hypothetical alts, saying if there was a me who didn't have a you I didn't want to make her sad about it.

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Oh, yeah, that does sound familiar. Well, now we can hopefully go around introducing them.

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Yep! Nuzzles. Okay, we are both clever people who managed to get dressed despite logistical constraints, let's go downstairs to the party.

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He picks her up. 

 

They go downstairs to the party.

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It is an excellent party, which is only to be expected with two obliging demons and a Macalaure in attendance.

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It is a lovely party. He's having a lovely engagement party. With eleven of his father present. This is so so not how he imagined his life going but he kisses Edie a lot and it's definitely not as awful to have social events when practically everyone attending is a version of someone in your family. 

 

(His cousin Findekáno does not attend - mid-test of something tricky, he says in the note he sends with his regards.)

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How did you imagine your life relevantly going?

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Royal weddings are a Huge Deal and it's terrible, I was planning to skip it all and go on a vacation and then come back and announce it'd been a honeymoon.

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Well, I'm glad we get at least some of your family for our wedding.

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Yeah, that bit's nice. 

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If we had had to elope I would have insisted on bringing Emily for the wedding. 

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We wouldn't have had to elope - well, we couldn't have gotten married at all because you're a demon but besides that if you'd wanted a proper royal wedding I'd have done it, just -

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That sounds like a huge hassle. Anyway, I meant the hypothetical where I never find Milliways, not the one where we never left Valinor.

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And we probably blow up Earth when we learn about the torture server farms and we kill all the orcs if we don't manage to summon him back before they do -

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And that would have been profoundly awful but it wouldn't have made me not love you.

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Oh, Edie. Kiss. Even the Noldor might not have been in the mood for a giant wedding festival, after that.

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Kiss. Well, regardless.

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This way's good.

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Much better.

We should probably talk about being-married stuff like responsible adults.

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Oh?

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I mean, not necessarily right now--right now we should dance, actually, this is a good song for it--but at some point we should discuss things like kids and how we're going to live after the Melkors are dead and we have reliable interworld travel and the answer isn't "Milliways" and stuff like that.

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Dancing. Yeah, okay. Uh, I think Maitimo thinks the answer to the latter is 'you terraform a lot of planets and stuff for him, being the only demon with good PR he can trust'.

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Fair. But that's my job, not what I come home to.

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What'd'you want to come home to?

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I'm not sure, exactly. But we've got time to figure it out.

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Yeah.

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...Preliminary thoughts on kids?

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Definitely, someday. 

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Good. 

...Any idea what kind of someday?

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Dunno, like, once everything's settled and we're not working crazy hours?

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So after Milliways, then?

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After Milliways and, like, the subsequent hectic couple decades?

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I guess that makes sense.

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We've got forever, and our kids'll only be young for a short time. A really short time if half-humans grow like humans.

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True.

...Can you keep a secret?

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Yeah.

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She replays the interaction with their alts after his called her back upstairs.

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Idiots. 

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Please don't say that to their faces.

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Yeah, I know, but -

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But they were both traumatized and not thinking straight.

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Yeah. It'll probably be fine. 

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Yeah.

Love you. Love how not traumatized you are.

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I try.

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Yaay Milliways. And Huan.

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Losing him would be really really hard.

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She hugs him as much as the dance allows. Not gonna happen. 

I'm curious whether we have a Luthien, though.

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You can check, right?

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Mhm. Maybe not while we're dancing, though.

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Yeah, okay. Squeeze.

 

And later: I'm not even sure what I'd do with the information: not let Huan near her? But -

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I mean, it probably shouldn't be a problem if Huan has friends who are not you as long as they're not in a position to drag him on a suicide quest to acquire and withhold something you're sworn to retrieve.

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But it bothers me that he'd help them out if they were!

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Well, that's between you and him, but I don't think keeping him away from Luthien is going to change it.

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Fair enough. Does she even exist?

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She attempts to conjure a hand-sized scale model of Abbadon!Luthien.

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Yep, that is a Endorë Elf princess. Or half-Maia. Whatever. 

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"...How does that even work?"

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"You know, I have absolutely no idea. Maiar can look human, but..."

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"If she's a princess maybe Doriath will have published something on the subject and we can ask Bar."

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"Maybe, though from how our alts described their version I sort of doubt it."

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"Point."

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"Our world seems differently dysfunctional but I'm not sure how far that goes."

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"Well, at least our Thingol doesn't have Alqualonde to ban Quenya and generally hate us over."

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"Wait, really, you don't think he will? Maitimo snapped the binding on his daeva and then a lot of people died, I bet he'll consider that sufficient excuse."

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"We can swear that I, the demon whose binding snapped, didn't kill anyone, and that the whole point of snapping my binding was to prevent exactly the disaster that occurred, and that he got me to swear oaths that reasonably substituted for a binding before snapping it. Truthfulness oaths are convenient."

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"Perhaps someone - not me - can charm Thingol out of being a dick and then when Lúthien meets her foretold boyfriend Thingol will be like 'you'd better treat her right' or something and let it go."

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"Perhaps a Maitimo. Although I admit I have to wonder what fool errand he'd send him on, given that we're not unstopping time until we can get the Silmarils back."

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"I bet there are lots of ways to get a naive kid who's reckless enough to walk into Angband killed."

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"Maybe if we deal with Morgoth quickly and efficiently and he doesn't grow up as part of a guerrilla band harrying orcs he won't be that reckless."

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"He might not even exist, we might accidentally disrupt his great-grandparents meeting or something."

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"Yeah, bit silly to worry on his behalf at this stage."

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Indeed. Instead they should make out and drop the scale Lúthien and forget he exists - or will exist, maybe - entirely.

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This is an excellent plan!

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Rather leaves the post-party cleanup to Emily but at least it's hardly any work for her.

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It is not. Although she'll spend the time also commiserating with her alt on sisters and their boyfriends making out at odd moments.

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Well, their engagement party isn't such an odd moment. When the food and decorations have all turned into air the party disperses. Maitimo heads back inside and gloomily works on multiverse planning for the rest of the day.

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"You need a nickname," Cam remarks apropos of nothing.

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"...yeah, I do. Be a bit rude to keep going by Maitimo while all the other ones adopt one. Suggestions?"

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"There's probably no sufficiently oblique way to turn 'only sane Maitimo' into a nickname, is there."

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"I don't think so, and it'd be terrible if we ran across another psychologically healthy non-evil emotionally mature me and then I had to change it."

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"Yeah. I mean, anything that's currently distinguishing could get less so depending on who walks in..."

Permalink Mark Unread

"And the landlords might do that on purpose to fuck with us.

 

Maybe I should pick something that's a reference to being reasonable and fortunate, if the cosmic forces decide to demonstrate that is non-distinguishing then we'll have two not-messed-up mes on hand."

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"Wouldn't that be something. Unfortunately I cannot call you Lucky because this is a thing people name dogs where I'm from..."

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"'Lohtion' means 'thriving', 'Eldatúro' means 'victorious', 'Entulëon' would be 'resurrection', 'Ambartur' means 'ruler of the world'..."

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"I do speak Quenya," Cam reminds him. "...with a twenty-year-old child's vocabulary plus what I picked up, but still. None of those are grabbing me though..."

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"Right but our conversations don't default to sounding like Quenya to you, do they? I suppose I could go by Nelyafinwë, I'd be the only one of us to do that, but there's a reason I'm very sure none of my alts would do that..."

Permalink Mark Unread

"When you speak Quenya I hear Quenya, when you start telling me what Quenya words mean I hear you lapsing bizarrely into English, the translation effect is very user friendly. Why wouldn't your alts do that?"

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"It's a bit of a long story. So my father's childhood was kind of a nightmare - his mother had bad postpartum depression, she limped through it for eight Years and it didn't lift and eventually she killed herself and left a note asking them not to try to resurrect her. Well, the King tried, and Mandos agreed, and she killed herself again when he was ten and my grandfather sort of fell apart with grief and my father was sort of raised by the court and not very effectively. And then, when he was fifteen, the King of the Vanyar invited my grandfather for a rehabilitative stay with him in their summer palace and rather threw his sister at my grandfather - she'd apparently secretly been in love with him for a century -"

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"...okay, I was seventeen when my mom remarried but that's different..."

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"Elf fifteen is, like, human six or seven. Anyway, my father was upset about the remarriage and clashed pretty badly with his new stepmother and he ended up turning off osanwë and not talking, at all, to anyone, for the next several years, during which he got a younger sister and then a younger brother. When his younger brother was born he ran away from home."

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"How efficaciously?"

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"I'm sure they could have found him if they'd tried, but they didn't and didn't see him again until twenty years later."

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"...wow."

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"When he walked into the palace, married, and invited his father to meet his grandson, who was five weeks old."

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"That being you. You know, it's fairly impressive you managed not to fall into the 'drama' failure mode with that auspicious beginning."

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"Oh, it gets worse. So the Eldar name children at six weeks, in a formal public ceremony called the Essecarmë. Royal ones were attended by everyone within a hundred miles, back before they were televised. My father tearfully reconciles with his and asks him to announce an essecarmë in a week, and he greets his half-siblings - my aunts Findis and Lalwen, my uncles Nolofinwë and Arafinwë - and is perfectly lovely to them, and then a week later in front of a hundred thousand people he announces my name. 

Nelyafinwë, so third-finwë, so the-products-of-my-father's-remarriage-are-illegitimate-and-let's-settle-the-succession-right-now - my uncle Nolofinwë burst into tears in front of everyone -"

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"I can see why you might not want to adopt this for everyday use."

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"My earliest memories are of knowing my name hurt people and trying to think of a way around it."

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Wing-put.

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"It was probably, in hindsight, all to the best...I was knee high and acutely aware of all the things my father was doing to make people dislike him and not listen to him, and how he'd in turn write them off, and I pieced together how to stop it from happening - be cute and innocent and present with the right comments, distract people at the right moments, feed my father things to say when I could do it subtly enough - Nolofinwë later told me he'd never been sure if the name was a curse or a prophecy -"

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"...a prophecy?"

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"It's a superstition, or a social psychology effect if you like - people like to say that you have a flash of insight on the name to give your child and then the name's prophetic. It sort of fits for most of us but on the other hand there's no plausible mechanism and it's easy to overfit..."

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"Maybe it works by magic in the magic Ardas and you're piggybacking off their name choices, which of course eerily match."

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"...that could be and is really weird if so."

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"Rather, yes."

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"Anyway. I have a lot of nicknames but a weird feeling my alts have them all too."

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"Probably. Your might be the only Arda with summoning as a staple? Since even the other multiplanet one doesn't have that. 'Circle' or something."

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"That's all right. Guess it works for the purpose of alt conversations and I don't have to use it to introduce myself across the multiverse."

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"I mean, if you don't like it, by all means keep thinking."

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"I don't think I'm going to settle on anything I like enough I can imagine being Emperor Such-and-such Nickname. Circle is probably uniquely identifying."

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Nod.

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"I have a sneaking suspicion Edie and Tyelcormo aren't actually going to wait a proper year, and even if they do it might be less than that for me, so I'm trying to think of a good wedding present."

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"Presents for demons: always tricky."

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"I know! Bar, I don't suppose you can recommend me books with conjurable things Edie just wouldn't have heard of -"

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Certainly some of what I have will meet those criteria but you will have to be more specific.

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"I would like catalogues, or other media with pictures, from non-magic worlds which went in a very different direction tech-wise than Earths and Ardas and Edie's native Hell, and have lots of things listed which wouldn't be in catalogues on any of those worlds."

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There are a truly dizzying number of worlds; you will need to narrow it down.

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"And which start with the consonant cluster 'Vhr'?"

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Worlds typically don't have names.

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"You've said, I mean the catalogues themselves."

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Ah. And she produces a stack of widely varied things with oddly alliterative names.

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"Thank you so much." Wedding presents for his little brother and his fiancée!

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There are bizarre foreign art objects and furnishings and articles of alien personal hygiene and weird food and peculiar fabrics and strange plants and stranger games and hobby accessories.

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Well, if he tries hard enough he'll probably find something - oh, this planet takes their zero-grav sports really really seriously, Edie and Tyelcormo seem like plausibly people who'd enjoy that...

Permalink Mark Unread

"Do we have a way to get a zero-G environment in here? Without specifically pestering Nechar to fuck with the backyard."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I've been wondering what happens if you break the window to a room with a delightful view of supernovae, but probably not, no..."

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"Unless there are, like, zero-G rooms upstairs available for rent in case there is ever a patron with zero-G needs," Cam prompts Bar.

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It's an available accommodation.

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"Really? I might suggest it to them, then. Good for stress. If you've got the right blessings and are being attentive, at least."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Flying in zero G is a trip."

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"I am terribly sad I can't try it properly."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I mean, if it's really ruining your day we could prevail upon our poor overtaxed sorcerer."

Permalink Mark Unread

"For whom it's probably been a single daylong shift, right? In which we've gone in with all of these absurd dramatics...poor Nechar..."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I think he takes longer-than-daylong shifts, these are literally the only breaks he gets from constantly running around doing huge magical projects at home, but yes."

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"I do want to leverage his world if we can possibly figure out how, he's perfectly happy solving only the problems very lovely societies have but there must be some people who'd be willing to sit outside a portal we put in and grant wishes as part of their rotation of activities..."

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"Yeah, they'd be an incredible resource if only."

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"Did you check if any of us have alts there -"

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"I did not -" Check - "- no."

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"Oh well. Maybe by the time we're ready to leave there we can accomplish a lot of that anyway - the engineers are getting somewhere on whatever happens when you erase oaths, ways to do it without Nechar..."

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"That'd be handy."

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"We're still stuck on solutions for magic Elves and orcs, but there are a lot more of our kind so it's something."

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Nod.

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And he reads through the catalogues a while longer in silence.

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And he comes downstairs. 

Permalink Mark Unread

"Oh, hi! My Tyelcormo and Edie are getting married, I'm trying to pick out a present for them, you should too!"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Oh, congratulations. I'll do something magic, since Edie can't conjure that. Were you planning to pretend both gifts were from you?"

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"Yeah, Edie said she'd only stop hating you if it was obviated by you hating yourself enough. Pick out a present anyway? I think Tyelcormo will appreciate it."

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"Of course."

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He passes him some catalogues.

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"How'd you filter -"

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"Effectively at random, Bar's supply is I guess finite but very very large."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Huh, 'finite but very large' is actually more surprising than 'infinite' in some ways -"

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"Crossed my mind. Finite but very large is what we'd expect in a single universe if intelligent life evolved pretty readily -"

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"Sorry?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Uh, my species evolved. Yours probably didn't, I guess..." and he digresses to explain how that works, and then "but it is of course absurdly mysterious that the result of that optimization process would be something that separately some lunatic gods adopted for their pet planets."

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"Finite but sufficiently large, and then the landlords selecting for entertainment value, would get you lots of oddly convergent histories -"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Enough monkeys to actually write the complete Ainulindalë on a typewriter, yeah."

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"What?"

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"Idiom that will make no sense to you on at least three levels."

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"I'm learning, but focused on things my world will need."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Wasn't trying to suggest otherwise, I kind of can't imagine catching up from swords as fast as you're going to need to and I expect you'll pull it off brilliantly. The other Shiny Tree Arda alt's not much like you, though, there must have been something else in play...some kind of Enemy action, though I don't know how personally aimed -"

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"In Ardas like mine people as idealistic as you would have died, ergo no story for the landlords, if that's the theory we're going with..."

Permalink Mark Unread

"You keep saying that and I keep wondering to what extent it's a fair evaluation - I was prepared to blow up the Earth and kill all the orcs, the difference between you and the rest of us isn't ruthlessness, and I'm actually happy to stipulate it's not 'morality'... I could probably assassinate my cousins at need and I find Matt very comprehensible despite his having objectively done way more terrible stuff than you..."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Because he's appropriately repentant -"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Because he's putting the tradeoffs on the same side of the line as I was?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Huh. 

 

You going to get married?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"No. And please please don't -"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Can't. Our version's magic, remember, and men don't count -"

Permalink Mark Unread

"I am really looking forward to having enough power to go have quite the talk with whoever builds the metaphysics of the shiny Tree Ardas. My world sucks in some ways but very obviously not ways that are anyone's fault."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Your Valar -"

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"Are probably above average for rulers, have no special advantages at anything including ruling except being daeva which is less of one than you'd think in a world with summoning, are nowhere near good enough but I have high standards..."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Magic Valar are a lot worse."

Permalink Mark Unread

"You mentioned the routine mind tampering, yeah." He shakes his head. "Anyway, pick up consent as fast as you're picking up electrical engineering and I'll stop being glad your world doesn't support gay marriage."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Haven't touched him."

Permalink Mark Unread

"If you get really tired of that you could always take the incapacitating oath off, let yourself back into your world, skip the time while he decides to come back -"

Permalink Mark Unread

"You're not subtle, are you."

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"At need. But I like you, so I've said what I want from the very beginning - no more oaths, get at least to the point of understanding that your alts all care about our cousins and will be upset with anyone who hurts them, give him time, win him back -"

Permalink Mark Unread

"I told you I'd think about it." He takes a few catalogues and heads back upstairs.

Permalink Mark Unread

"Take care."

 

 

And an unhappy flop.

Permalink Mark Unread

Snuggle. "Those conversations are always a little weird. Where else do you get that mix of moral philosophy and bizarre metaphysics and personal sniping?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"I hadn't realized it was missing from my life! Can you pull up something on how marriage works in Shiny tree Ardas, I couldn't figure out what the hell he meant by that but didn't want to press it..."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I think Bar curates by topic much better than I do -"

Permalink Mark Unread

She does. Is this what they were looking for?

Permalink Mark Unread

Yep, definitely. 

 

He was absent for the shiny-tree-Elf-sex-is-marriage conversation - "oh, it makes significantly more sense that he asked if I was getting married..."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Oh?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Well, it literally did not occur to me that their setup would work that way, because what the fuck that's incredibly dangerous and has consent issues all but baked in. So it might similarly not have occurred to him that ours doesn't, even once he found out ours doesn't limit by gender."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I don't actually know about Singularity Elves. They could be different, with the natural chips, or not, it never came up."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Now I'm curious - Bar, marriage customs in Singularity?"

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Bar provides.

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Read, read, "nope," relieved. "They've got blessings that they load if they decide to marry, same as us. Soul bonding must be a magic Elf thing- or maybe a Midnight's-world-only thing, I haven't asked the new alts..."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I wonder if the Singularity blessings are gender-agnostic and only used heterosexually as a matter of custom."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Some of ours are anatomically specific, maybe they bundle 'em. Marriage blessing downloads are public record even if you skip the one that makes you noticeably married, so you couldn't do a stealth one under the radar anyway..."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Coming as I do from a culture where marriage is composed entirely of social recognition the idea of a secret marriage is weird to begin with."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I think if I were in a homophobic society and not sufficiently fucked up by it to decide to be celibate forever - which is the most plausible candidate, really - I'd probably be very tempted by a secret marriage? It is by all accounts an absurdly nice blessing-set, and the affirmation of the relationship wouldn't be meaningless for the fact it had to be a secret...."

Permalink Mark Unread

"What do the blessings do?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Instantaneous knowledge of major changes to the other person's wellbeing as well as good instincts for where they are - that's one you could technically make more widely available but it's very high-bandwidth - things described as new senses not usefully analogous to any extant ones and manifesting differently for different people but centered on your spouse or very occasionaly on something you both care about a lot and do together...higher-fidelity memory for happy moments with that person, emotion-sharing with voluntary control on both sides, for which the major application I've heard of is getting high off sex..."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Does osanwë not do voluntary emotion sharing by default?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"You can send emotions to someone, but it's conscious, like sending a thought, unless you just want to partition your thoughts and emotions and senses so they have access to the private ones, but yikes. The marriage blessing is, like, you set the intensity you want to be sharing at, by default in the background, and they set the intensity they want to be receiving at, and then you experience what they're feeling attenuated by whatever factor you two picked - the lower of the two, obviously..."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Oh, huh."

Permalink Mark Unread

"You would probably get more useful answers from an actually married person. But that's the idea."

Permalink Mark Unread

Nod.

Permalink Mark Unread

 

"Ever something you wanted?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"What, getting married, or getting fancy telepathy married?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"The latter you just said was not on the table!"

Permalink Mark Unread

"I have been known to want things I did not yet know to be possible! I don't know, it's never been in the forefront of my mind? You are my first non-casual significant other."

Permalink Mark Unread

Squeeze. "If things were less complicated and we could just co-rule the multiverse - I guess you still have very good reasons for not wanting a chip -"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Those things. Both of them," agrees Cam.

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And eventually he has picked out a dozen wedding presents - "one to give them, the rest to recommend to all the engineers when the wedding creeps up on us and they've forgotten to think about it..." and a lot of things to trade daeva once they're out of Milliways and need to worry about that again.

Permalink Mark Unread

"Numerous hells will be delighted at the windfall."

Permalink Mark Unread

"And I can get all of my planets infrastructured up even if my brother's wife doesn't want to fork twenty of her to cover it for me."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Twenty would be kind of pushing it, even your dad doesn't have that many."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I was initially thinking I might do twenty, or one per world, or something like that!"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Well that would get awkward fast if you did it now."

Permalink Mark Unread

"If I fork at all it'll have to be from pre-Milliways, I would really not enjoy trying to fall out of love with you. And I shouldn't need that many, when I really think about it. It's that - my customary management style is to know everybody better than they know themselves and have their personal trust, and that doesn't scale, and 'forks' sounded like a way to scale it. When really I should be thinking 'I currently have the resource of a couple million capable intelligent people who'll do what I ask, how do I use that to fix stuff' - personally acquiring local resources is a terrible way to rule an interplanetary empire..."

Permalink Mark Unread

"And of course you know all these couple million people really well, so you'll be able to deploy them usefully."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I can't tell if you're making fun of me. I had three thousand years and all the memory blessings in the world, of course I got to know them all really well!"

Permalink Mark Unread

"It's just faintly ridiculous, knowing that many people!"

Permalink Mark Unread

"You probably know that many vocabulary words? Not just the word, but what words it's similar to, what contexts to use it in, how to spell it and how to say it and the shades of meaning - those probably don't even feel like discrete facts you know - my brain thinks that people are as easy to learn as words."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Okay, but I learned most of my vocabulary words via the most underhanded cheating."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I have little indexed searchable notes and when I see someone's face I can pull up my notes on them."

Permalink Mark Unread

"That sounds handy. I am a big believer in notetaking, I just can't consult them quite that discreetly."

Permalink Mark Unread

"All these reasons to figure out how to make a sufficiently safe chip."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I was so tempted when I was looking over a blessing catalog back in Singularity. All that stuff."

Permalink Mark Unread

"It's lovely!! Magic Elves can do some of it with magic, though. I asked Midnight which the best ones were and then I asked my magic-elf father to make me a ring of grace for you. He's in a hurry on immortality because of his inlaws but he said he'd get around to it after that."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Ooh, a ring of grace. I have an inertia thing as a non-chiploaded blessing but it's not quite the same."

Permalink Mark Unread

"By Midnight's account I could leap between tree branches like some kind of flying squirrel - don't ask why I would, but I could - and you should be able to compete with the best humans in agility sports."

Permalink Mark Unread

"But can I dance the supporting role in Atriama."

Permalink Mark Unread

"This sounds like a question to settle with empiricism! Once I have my magic ring; I can't do it myself, you need magic Elf osanwë."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Magic Elf osanwë is convenient in multiple ways."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I am vaguely tempted by straight-up mindreading but I know I shouldn't be."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Yeah that part's sketchy."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Checked with Edie. Mind-affecting Arda songs affect daeva, but it wears off faster after the singer stops for you than for us, and isn't permanent even if they keep singing."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Well. That's better than nothing."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Substantially so. Had Edie test them on me, they're - not mind-hijacking, I'm not afraid of any of us working for the Enemy under their influence, but it's weird and it'd be lovely if magic couldn't do that."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Weird like...?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"It is disconcerting to be able to identify a thought process as untrustworthy and not distrust it."

Permalink Mark Unread

"...that sounds freaky yes."

Permalink Mark Unread

Squeeze. "Thus asking Edie not you."

Permalink Mark Unread

Snuggle. "Thank you."

Permalink Mark Unread

"One of these worlds will have highly exploitable magic and we will fix Singularity and become omnipotent and you will not have to worry about it."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I appreciate this optimistic projection."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I am a very optimistic person. I was not joking about keeping Matt around to be depressing at me for the sake of the multiverse."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I wonder how he picked 'Matt'," Cam says. "I guess it's loosely soundalike."

Permalink Mark Unread

"And appropriate for a government job in the 70s, he said, you'd be better equipped to evaluate that than I am..."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Oh, yeah, it's a thoroughly boring and commonplace Anglophone name."

Permalink Mark Unread

"They got a lecture from their Valar once about how Manwë is king of the whole world, which they took to mean powerless outside it, and when the humans developed space flight they - stopped moping, I guess..."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Small step for man, giant leap for mankind, spectacular pick-me-up for Elves."

Permalink Mark Unread

"My father was over the moon about it too! Literally, he pulled rank and got himself onto the third landing on Araman."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I've been to Luna but only on summon. Same with Mars."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I was going to go to Endorë once all the politics and - stuff - died down."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Tourism?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Not really, wanted to try to close the tech gap. I'd, um, Findekáno and I'd been thinking we could do it with ten demons and a couple of years, before Melkor got started and everything went to hell."

Permalink Mark Unread

"So to speak."

Permalink Mark Unread

"In all but the most desperately desired sense of it."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Yeah. We'll figure something out. Well, they will."

Permalink Mark Unread


"Yeah."

 

Sigh.

Permalink Mark Unread

Snuggle.

Permalink Mark Unread

"We've been on bar-supervising duty for a while and there are now more of me we could ask to handle it."

Permalink Mark Unread

"This is true."

Permalink Mark Unread

Matt, can you sit in the bar and if people enter be friendly at them and offer our assistance to their homeworld if necessary and if the other Maitimo comes downstairs avoid letting him fetch anyone from his world - you can just call one of us -?

Permalink Mark Unread

Certainly.

Permalink Mark Unread

This having been accomplished, he takes Cam's hand and the catalogues and goes upstairs.

Permalink Mark Unread

Cam follows obligingly.

Permalink Mark Unread

And he kisses him and leans into a lovely winghug and manages to not talk politics for ten whole minutes!

Permalink Mark Unread

And a short while later Imliss wanders downstairs. 

She looks like she's seriously considering wandering right back upstairs when she sees him but instead does not do that.

Permalink Mark Unread

"Hey! Looking for anything? Bar does - well, not quite as much as your magical alts, but if I hadn't met them I'd think she was the most miraculous thing I'd ever seen. And she's better at recommendations!"

Permalink Mark Unread

"...Just a change of scenery, really." she sits down not that far from him, but not terribly close, either, and studies him.

Permalink Mark Unread

"I know the hair is terrible, my alt has been torn between telling me demons can replace it because obviously I'd want it replaced or not telling me that because it's terribly out of line. I didn't want to quit jobs every ten years like Tyelcormo, and it's  - blasphemy of blasphemies, but still - only hair."

Permalink Mark Unread

 

 

 

"You're losing your touch if you think that's why I was staring," she says, looking away.

Permalink Mark Unread

"Guilty as charged, thirty thousand years in solitary confinement will do that to you.

 

 

Do you want to talk about it?"

Permalink Mark Unread

 

 

 

"I love you and I miss you and I wish you could be okay someday."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Luckily there are apparently lots of me and some of them are okay and taking over the okay-me duties, except inconveniently they're not your brother-in-law."

Permalink Mark Unread

She shakes her head. "Yeah. Not the same thing. They don't know me. I'm not their sister."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I'm still here."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Tyelcormo says you haven't had a genuine preference except to die for a long time."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Dying really didn't improve things; I haven't wished for it in centuries."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Cease to exist, I mean."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I hadn't realized our relationship was built on mutual non-suicidality."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Oh. It's not. You're just really really different from before and I don't really know how to interact with you."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Same as before works fine. Are you sure the hair's not distracting you? It distracts me, I look in the mirror and think 'what an ugly human'."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Same as before is, uh, really not safe for me."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Not safe?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"I'm a dreamshaper. And I got my life back in dreams. If I wanted to I could live in a replica Formenos and have subconsciously puppeted replicas of everyone walking around. This is a slippery enough slope I have on more than one occasion fought off the temptation to do something that would be a first step on that path. And this would be one of those."

Permalink Mark Unread

"...I can pull a personality off television? Or be a Tyelcormo, do you have any other sisters around I can constantly be distracted by -"

Permalink Mark Unread

She snorts. "No. Just no. 

 

You don't need to worry about who you are or are not being, I just--need to not forget."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Then perhaps I won't ask a demon to fix my long-suffering hair. If it helps."

Permalink Mark Unread

 

 

"You aren't okay and I want you to be okay and you're not going to be okay and your hair isn't going to help."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Ah, I thought we were brainstorming solutions to the problem 'you don't want to act like everything's okay', not the problem 'I murdered hundreds of thousands of people'. Latter's trckier."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I don't expect to find a solution,".

Permalink Mark Unread

"There are eleven of dad upstairs, if there's a solution I think we can bet it'll be found, and not over brunch - Bar, can we have brunch -"

Permalink Mark Unread

She sighs.

"On an actionable level I think the problem is 'I don't want to act like everything's okay.' It's just that you doing whatever you li--you doing whatever with your hair isn't going to meaningfully affect that."

Permalink Mark Unread

"So what alternative are you envisioning to 'act like everything's okay'?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"I wish I knew."

Permalink Mark Unread

"You could ask around but most people act like everything's okay and it works out strictly better than acting like everything's horrible."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Everything isn't horrible. Lots of things are great, especially compared to before Milliways happened to us. I just.

 

If it comes down to it--if we find a way to make you stop existing--I'll help. If you need it. I love you and that means caring about what you want and if you literally don't want anything else then obviously it's the right thing to do--but--I'm...not looking forward to it."

Permalink Mark Unread

 

"I'm not expecting to find a way, and definitely not a way that requires help. But thank you."

Permalink Mark Unread

"We have forever. I'm sure something will come up eventually."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I hope you're right."

Permalink Mark Unread

"If it's possible to kill a Vala, it's probably possible to destroy an Elf."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I was under the impression they hadn't yet figured out how to kill a Vala?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"...Not yet, no, but I'm pretty sure they will."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I very much hope so."

Permalink Mark Unread

"So meanwhile--I'm not going to try to be around you all the time, that would be a bad idea for me, but--if there's only a finite amount of time to create new memories of you in--I had better use it."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Fair enough. Was there something in particular you wanted to do, or..."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Not really.

 

I wish I had been on the boats. I'm not actually hubristic enough to think I could have saved everyone but I bet if I had gone with you to the parley I could have killed both of us before they knew to stop me and that would have been a much better way to spend my death than throwing it away on the Ice."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Wouldn't have taken you, wouldn't have been an acceptable risk -"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Okay.

I still wish I could have done something. Given that you prefer to stop existing you should but I don't think I'll ever stop wishing it had never come to that. I love you."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I love you too. It's so good we found you."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I was so scared that you'd have--not forgotten, exactly, but--after thirty thousand years--and you didn't even know us for that many of them--"

Permalink Mark Unread

"I'm not going to praise Mandos' general competence but he did put all my memories back."

Permalink Mark Unread

"As far as I can tell the problem with the Valar was not their technical capability."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Sometimes I think it actually was? They didn't have a good way to stop Melkor. They absolutely should have tried bad ways but they didn't have a good one. Mandos would have made me want to live if he could have, I think."

Permalink Mark Unread

"The most personally offensive problem, then, I suppose. Honestly, what any reasonable person could do with those abilities, even if they are limited."

Permalink Mark Unread

"That I'll grant you."

Permalink Mark Unread

"The most personally offensive thing about the Valar was the fucking Doom. Which. Hopefully the fact that we're not in Arda right now and/or being outnumbered by the Abbadon and Singularity people will obviate that for practical purposes."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I should ask them if they're doomed."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I don't think the Abbadon ones even could be, considering that their Valar are just daeva."

Permalink Mark Unread

"And that's the one who wants to be emperor of the multiverse, so. That's something."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Yeah, I'm pretty sure the people who came in from Abbadon are doing most of the steering, thankfully enough. Although I must admit I'm slightly intimidated by ten each of the engineers. Forking is a marvelous and terrifying thing."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I'm surprised my alt didn't go for it, I often used to wish there were two of me."

Permalink Mark Unread

 

"Apparently your Singularity alt sort of did."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Hmm?"

Permalink Mark Unread

 

"He got captured too. The version that currently exists was forked from before that happened."

Permalink Mark Unread

"That's an interesting way to do it."

Permalink Mark Unread

 

"Singularity and Abbadon Angbands are worse than ours, by all relevant accounts. And our kind of Elf can't fork."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Yes, I know. It's probably the right solution, but - I don't want any of me to exist."

Permalink Mark Unread

 

 

"Makes sense."

Permalink Mark Unread

"It's such a big multiverse and forever is such a long time."

Permalink Mark Unread

"'It's only forever, it's not long at all,'" she sings softly. "But yes."

Permalink Mark Unread

"At some point in forever everyone will be tortured horribly enough to make everything up to that point not worth it."

Permalink Mark Unread

 

 

 

"That is definitely an interesting perspective and I can certainly understand why you have it."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I'm not too fragile to argue with."

Permalink Mark Unread

"If we ever get to the point of becoming able to fork people who can't be chipped at all. or of chipping more kinds of people, if anything like that did happen to me I could just give over the job of being me and extant to a pre-that fork and then everything I had done and that had happened to me before then would matter because she would have it."

Permalink Mark Unread

"But it still wouldn't be worth being tortured."

Permalink Mark Unread

"But if the version of me who was tortured stopped existing what would be the difference between that world and a world where it had never happened?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"In one, there's still a person, who will because forever is a long time eventually get tortured."

Permalink Mark Unread

"...I mean the difference between the world I got tortured and then forked a version that didn't and erased the version that did and a world where I didn't get tortured, not between the first world and one where I don't fork and stop existing anyway."

Permalink Mark Unread

"...in one of them you were tortured? Would you be okay with being tortured if I told you you'd forget it afterwards? Obviously torture is worse than not that!"

Permalink Mark Unread

"It wouldn't be okay, but if I found out I had been tortured horribly yesterday and forgot about it I wouldn't want to stop existing."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Well, no. I want to stop existing because I know that the worst existing can get is much, much worse than the best it can get, and that it will inevitably happen again. I do not want to stop existing because I was tortured even independent of any effects that had."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Right. So if it's possible to ensure that being tortured doesn't have relevant effects, then it's not a reason to stop living, because then you get to keep the best parts and not the worst parts."

Permalink Mark Unread

"And then the only reason to stop living is that life is not worth it."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Isn't worth what, exactly, if you can get rid of all the torture that happens?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"I can't figure out if you're being deliberately obtuse. A million years of happy life, followed by a thousand years of torture and then death, is worse than never existing at all. People don't realize that because they don't have enough of a reference point. Therefore, I would prefer not to exist even if nothing had ever happened to me, because someday it will."

Permalink Mark Unread

"It's not deliberate deliberate but it might be, I dunno, subconsciously on purpose? This is why I didn't want to argue with you, you know, not because I thought you were too fragile, because I prefer to continue to prefer to live and I suspect if we actually sat down and compared facts and decided which was objectively better you might be right and I don't want that."

Permalink Mark Unread

"That's very reasonable. If it helps any, if it were only that, I'd keep on living even though I'd expect it not to be worth it for me, because it might be that I could make the world better and protect other people somehow."

Permalink Mark Unread

"A little bit."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Sorry."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Well, I continue to prefer not to die, so no harm done.":

Permalink Mark Unread

"I will not try to persuade you otherwise."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Thanks."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Bar, can you recommend books written by alternate universe versions of people?"

Permalink Mark Unread

I'm afraid I can only identify althood in people I can observe in person.

Permalink Mark Unread

"No worries." He turns back to Imliss. "Do you have plans for killing time in here?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Various. I don't think it will be hard, why?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"I suppose it's easier the more inventive one is. I haven't the faintest idea how to take best advantage, personally."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I don't think I'd be much good at dispensing advice under the circumstances, sorry."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I should probably just meet everybody and figure out what the terrible secrets being kept from us because we're too fragile are, and so on."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I wonder if it has to do with your amoral alt."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Yeah, I'm wondering how bad he is. I mean, we killed a lot of people."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I think it might be a difference of type rather than magnitude?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Unless he actually worked for the Enemy on purpose, it's almost impossible he did more harm than we did. Suppose it's possible he has a less palatable attitude about it, but..."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Or did less than you but uncoerced, or...I'll ask about it."

Permalink Mark Unread

"We weren't coerced into the oath."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Yes, and you really should have taken ten minutes to come up with something less usable to yank you into that kind of thing, but you did not in fact understand what it was going to mean when you did it."

Permalink Mark Unread

"There were a lot of things we didn't understand."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Yeah."

Permalink Mark Unread

"So what were you up to, before all this started?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Oh, starting college."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Cool! Studying what?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Mechanical engineering! Did you notice I came in with Curufin?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"I figured you had to be in the area. You're at MIT? And he didn't notice?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"I'd only been there a few months, and he's...himself. I'm not surprised we hadn't crossed paths yet."

Permalink Mark Unread

"He is very himself, isn't he. Congratulations. Think you'll go back there once - whatever this merry adventure is - is settled enough?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Depends on how it's settled, I'm sure."

Permalink Mark Unread

"They seem to have a pretty clear answer for worlds which require conquering or which'll sign on in exchange for their goodies. Our Earth, less so."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I'd rather have you--a you who has fewer problems--as emperor of the multiverse than, well, not that."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I would sort of have expected the news that the normal course of the war involves us becoming monsters would dissuade him, but I suppose his world's sufficiently different from mine that perhaps he can believe he wouldn't have."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Or he figures it doesn't matter whether he would have, as long as he won't."

Permalink Mark Unread

"It matters."

Permalink Mark Unread

 

"Well, I don't know what he's thinking."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Yeah, me neither." He's involved with the sad demon and maybe that is part of the picture but it's not as if he's going to air this observation in public, people'll wonder...

Permalink Mark Unread

"I'm going to go outside."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Take care."

Permalink Mark Unread

"'Kay."

She goes outside. She walks towards Macalaure's house and loiters on the doorstep, unsure of what to say.

Permalink Mark Unread

He hears her, of course. Come on in.

Permalink Mark Unread

She comes in. "I have been talking to Mai--to Matt and I really need a hug."

Permalink Mark Unread

Hug.

Permalink Mark Unread

Hug. Clingy hug.

...She's just going to start crying, that's okay, right?

Permalink Mark Unread

Yeah, of course.

Permalink Mark Unread

Good, because it's going to last a while.

Permalink Mark Unread

Permalink Mark Unread

"I miss Maitimo. I know that's not really fair to him, but--"

Permalink Mark Unread

"He can do it if you need him to."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I know. It--would probably do more harm than good. In the long run. Especially since I would know it wasn't real."

Permalink Mark Unread

"You might not. He's really good."

Permalink Mark Unread

"The Maitimo I knew, who experienced happiness and had preferences other than 'cease to exist' is gone, and I need to accept that and move on, not--sink myself into denial."

Permalink Mark Unread

Hugs. "He has other preferences. It's - he's not sure any of this is real, so he doesn't like signaling them or expressing them."

Permalink Mark Unread

She relays what he told her about the inevitability of torture over infinite time and it not being worth it.

Permalink Mark Unread

"Yeah, I know. 'not worth it' doesn't mean 'all indistinguishable' or even 'never really enjoyable'."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Okay.

 

I love you. I'm really really glad you're alive."

Permalink Mark Unread

"LIkewise." Hug.

Permalink Mark Unread

Hug. "I'm glad there are other worlds where things have the chance to go better."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Yeah. It's probably not good for our Maitimo but still, yeah."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I'm also really glad there's other worlds with things like oath-removing magic."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Yeah, seriously."

Permalink Mark Unread

"And daeva who can do things like tunnel through the Earth's crust and heal burns."

Permalink Mark Unread

"That part is excellent!"

Permalink Mark Unread

"I'm quite pleased with my alt! She's quite excellent even separate from her excellent powers."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I am very eager to meet mine."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Yeah. Their concerns about forking without being able to obtain consent are pretty reasonable, though."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Yeah, definitely. Though they grabbed our cousin."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I've been assuming there were extenuating circumstances possibly relating to whatever they're avoiding telling us probably about Mirror."

Permalink Mark Unread

"The Mirror problem is that everyone's really fucked up, right? I can't think how anyone would go 'oh, you know what we need to sort that out, a copy of Fingon'..."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I don't know either."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Is there even someone to ask, everyone seems either busy or in the case of my alt-brother just mysteriously absent."

Permalink Mark Unread

"...Mysteriously?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Oh, did he tell you where to find him?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"I mean, I don't know his room number, but I think--wait, did you not get filled in that he's dating the not-Idaia's-alt demon, because that's a thing."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I did not get filled in on that, no. Who has been filled in on that."

Permalink Mark Unread

"...I think everyone not from Ozymandias? My alt mentioned it casually, she certainly didn't treat it like not-general-knowledge."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Okay."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I think it came up that Abbadon doesn't have our Valinor's homophobia thing, wasn't alternate-Tyelcormo talking about that when he dragged us all outside for popsicles."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Yes but the inference that follows is that our Maitimo is attracted to men and while I'm sure he's noticed that his alternate is I wonder if he knows that it's public knowledge his alternate is."

Permalink Mark Unread

"...Good question? I mean, he heard that Abbadon doesn't have that issue too, there really isn't a good reason for it not to be public knowledge."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I suppose not."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I'll mention it anyway when I go back in."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Thanks."

Permalink Mark Unread

"You're welcome."

Permalink Mark Unread

"You don't have to head back in now, though."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Yeah, wasn't planning to immediately."

Permalink Mark Unread

Hug. "It's easier to interact with Maitimo if you have a goal."

Permalink Mark Unread

"That does sound like it would help."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Sometimes it's 'have an hourlong stressfree conversation', that's a perfectly good goal, just - something."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I'll keep that in mind in the future."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Something to eat or drink, while you're here?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"...Thanks. Yes, please, I really should drink something after that much crying."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Water or soda or weird futuristic shake stuff your sister's demon version gave me when I complained of fatigue?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Water, thanks.

 

In hindsight I feel really silly for not realizing all those singers were you."

Permalink Mark Unread

"In fairness to you I was toning it down." He gets water.

Permalink Mark Unread

"Idaia owns every album you've ever put out. Because they reminded her of you."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I will tell her I'm flattered."

Permalink Mark Unread

"We noticed a resemblance, is all. I'm sure you've heard higher flattery."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Sure, but not from my lost little sisters."

Permalink Mark Unread

 

 

 

 

 

"Did Curufin tell you I was scared you guys wouldn't especially love us anymore after so long--"

Permalink Mark Unread

"No. Why would you ever think that? It's been as long without Amrod, too - and without Father - we're a family, Imliss -"

Permalink Mark Unread

"I wasn't family as long and I wasn't being rational I was being scared. I'm sorry for doubting it for a moment."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I wasn't looking for an apology." Squeeze.

Permalink Mark Unread

"I'm glad Edie and Emily got summoned by a version of Maitimo. I'm glad they get a chance to be part of--us."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Yeah. And getting married and everything, now."

Permalink Mark Unread

"After having known each other more than a week, even!" 

Permalink Mark Unread

"I'm impressed by how long they waited, apparently it's been over a year, and not even anything else to do around here!"

Permalink Mark Unread

"...Well, Space Elves can have sex without getting married, apparently."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Gosh, space Elves get all the neat tricks."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Abbadon Valar can't even Doom people. Lucky bastards."

Permalink Mark Unread

"That explains the Tyelcormo and Idaia not having gotten married within a couple months, though."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Yeah. Although I do also think having recently lost--everything--made Idaia more willing to make reckless commitments when she found someone who would never, ever do that to her. And Edie doesn't have that."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Sure, couple months, not 'one week'. Doubt they'd have lasted years."

Permalink Mark Unread

"You may be right. Or they might have avoided the specific act that does it." 

Permalink Mark Unread

"And we're at the limits of my desire to speculate about my brother and your sister's private lives. Even if it is alternate universe versions."

Permalink Mark Unread

"So completely agreed."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I am now morbidly curious who desires other men - or other women, if they're women - in Abaddon but I shouldn't look, it'd be rude."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Given that you're describing your curiosity as morbid you're probably right."

Permalink Mark Unread

"My world's versions wouldn't want people to know, so finding out seems underhanded, even if it could never conceivably affect them."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Well, I can't advise going out of your way not to find out either, but that makes sense."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Unless people are walking around hand-in-hand it probably won't come up."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I'll ask the Tyelcormo not to discuss his ex-boyfriends in front of you."

Permalink Mark Unread

"He has ex-boyfriends? And goes around discussing them unless warned off?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"To the best of my knowledge he has not yet gone around publicly discussing exes but who knows."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Doesn't seem like the kind of thing he'd do."

Permalink Mark Unread

"He might plausibly mention ex-boyfriends just because our Valinor was homophobic."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Now that does seem like the kind of thing he'd do."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I know, right?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Do either of you have people who should be here - it'd be a bad idea to get in the way of social ties you've built, we may all be here a very long time..."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Idaia has a friend. Maybe Edie should have grabbed her while she was grabbing Idaia. I mean, I have friends, Idaia has friends, but--there's a difference between the shallow kinds of friendships you incidentally acquire with people you happen to see everyday, and someone you'd be actually upset to not see for a long time."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Alright. If you don't need people we probably won't bring them into the loop just out of general friendliness."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Grabbing Daphne would probably be best for Idaia's long-term mental health but can definitely wait until she's not spending almost all of her time holed up upstairs with her husband, so it would be convenient if we could have one having-the-door-open session for fetching the Venus Silmaril and Daphne both."

Permalink Mark Unread

"The demons think someone somewhere has what they'd need for the Venus Silmaril."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Do they not?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Well, if anyone at all does, then they do."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I will talk to them about getting that done sooner than later."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Well, Dad's going to be busy for ten years, give or take, getting immortality sorted, so it's that long before he can even start on the Silmarils and I don't know how much he'll be able to do with them while they, you know, burn us."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Yeah. Ugh. Still."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Killing some Melkors will be really satisfying."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Oh, yes."

Permalink Mark Unread

"We're going to get so good at it."

Permalink Mark Unread

"It's a good thing to be good at."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I'm pretty sure we'll be able to take daeva, too, but not sure when or how it's best to mention it."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Singularity's Morgoth is a demon. I'm sure they'll be thrilled if we can take him."

Permalink Mark Unread

"If I thought I were indestructible I'd be less than thrilled that the local batch of mass murderers had worked out how to stop me."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I really don't think you'll have trouble presenting it as 'oh look another way of smiting Morgoths' instead of 'there is a significant chance we're going to attack alts of our little sisters who are doing the exact opposite of withholding Silmarils.'"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Okay, fair."

Permalink Mark Unread

"It is super convenient that the extradimensional people with the excellent powers and everything are basically us!"

Permalink Mark Unread

"And Cam."

Permalink Mark Unread

"And Cam, who--ah--you probably haven't heard this part."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Oh?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Okay so Space Angbands are even worse than regular Angbands, Space Morgoths can destructively upload people and then run them way faster than Morgoth can just expand their experiences on his own, and he can fork people he's torturing too. So Cam finds this out, and Morgoth does a wide variety of other really awful shit as well, and then Morgoth offers to swear not to pull any evil shit if Cam will put Valinor in a black hole. And Cam says no, because he's not an idiot, but the Angband is so awful, and then he gets a way to confirm Ainu oaths so that they can't fudge it with illusions, and a way is discovered to resurrect all the Elves who're on Valinor at the time, and they come up with a sufficiently binding wording for the anti-evilness oath..."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Well, fuck."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Cam's pretty sure he'd go up like flashpaper if he touched a Silmaril and wasn't a demon. He's not judging you."

Permalink Mark Unread

 

"If I write a song about it will he be upset?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"I'll ask."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Thank you. I wrote ones about - us, about the sacks of Menegroth and Sirion - it's how I process things, I want to know, I want to remember..."

Permalink Mark Unread

"That makes sense. I'm sure the one from Singularity already has, but--I'll ask."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Thanks."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I'll drag Idaia out to hear them, at some point, I'm sure she'll want to."

Permalink Mark Unread

"She seems pretty distracted. But eventually, yeah."

Permalink Mark Unread

"We have time."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Apparently arbitrary amounts of it!"

Permalink Mark Unread

"It's convenient!"

Permalink Mark Unread

"For the engineers, yeah, definitely. The rest of us were having enough problems with directionlessness as is - centuries you spend utterly mindlessly can't be great for you even if not much objective time passes..."

Permalink Mark Unread

"...I didn't think of that."

Permalink Mark Unread

"We'll think of something."

Permalink Mark Unread

"If worst comes to worst you could probably stand on the other side of the door for a while?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"I suppose. Seems a bit wasteful, and I got the sense the Singularity and Abaddon sets need to listen to music more than they've been doing."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Yeah."

Permalink Mark Unread

"We'll figure something out."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Let me know if I can do anything to help, obviously."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Oh, definitely. I should probably go spend some time with Maedhros."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Just doing nothing but hanging out outside waiting for people to show up so you can sing probably isn't the best idea ever."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I sing whether they're here or not. But fair enough."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Right. Of course. You're you, after all."

Permalink Mark Unread

"An audience still helps."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I'll come out more often."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Not what I meant. You don't want to take on responsibility for our wellbeing, Imliss; it won't help."

Permalink Mark Unread

"...Okay. I didn't--mean it like that, or I didn't mean to mean it like that, but."

Permalink Mark Unread

"It's just kind of an easy thing to do under the circumstances." Squeeze. "You should come out here more often, just not for that reason."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Yeah, definitely. You've only gotten better, since--since Valinor."

Permalink Mark Unread

"In Valinor I'd never really felt anything, I think it impeded my musical development."

Permalink Mark Unread

"...Seems like the kind of thing that would, yeah."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Great for your emotional range, five hundred years of endless war against the ultimate horror."

Permalink Mark Unread

Squeeze.

Permalink Mark Unread

Squeeze. "I'm okay."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I'm glad."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I think this family will somehow always have at least one sane member."

Permalink Mark Unread

"One or more depending on your definition of sane, sounds about right."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Shall we go in and go rescue my mopey brother?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Sure."

Permalink Mark Unread

So in they go. Mopey brother is reading at the bar. "We need a plan for when they're ready to start rolling out their empire," he says. "Worlds around 20th-century-Earth-tech they're going to mostly ignore on a first pass, hand out vaccines and stuff but that's all, they can't easily assimilate them like lower-tech worlds."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Invite them to a consortium?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"I think that's a good idea. On what terms, how much local autonomy, how much power does the emperor actually have..."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Is this a conversation we should be inviting him to or very much not?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Him being my alt who wants to be an emperor?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Yes."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I don't know where to find him. I can summarize the discussion for him later if we come up with anything."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Could ask Idaia's demon alt for his room number."

Permalink Mark Unread

"That seems a bit much when there's absolutely no hurry."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I suppose."

Permalink Mark Unread

"A lot of it depends on what exactly they can offer, but, yeah, unifying Earth under one world government would be really difficult and inconvenient and require a lot of people deployed consistently to manage it."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Although if they have a nice enough empire and open borders--which is not, I will grant, a given--it might come out to almost the same thing, eventually."

Permalink Mark Unread

"That'd be the most appealing way to do it, yeah. Drop in, announce that anyone who'd like can immigrate - they have portals? They could set up portals in places - hand out tech, move on."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Seems about right.

 

...I wonder if the Valar would react to that."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Well, I take it they're not going to try this until they can take a Vala. But if they don't drop portals in Valinor I doubt it and if they do drop portals in Valinor, yeah probably."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I wonder if they're likely to do that."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Yes."

Permalink Mark Unread

"...Okay, granted. I wonder if they're likely to do that on the first pass or figure out something more delicate considering all of the everything."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Good question. Might depend how portals work - if the Valar can just immediately close them it'll require more handling..."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Yeah, I am not nearly caught up enough in engineering to understand the portal stuff yet."

Permalink Mark Unread

"How far ahead of Earth is Abaddon, exactly?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Do you mean the Earth that inexplicably exists in Abbadon, Endore, or the fleet?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"I mean my alt."

Permalink Mark Unread

"...I don't think you or your alt are engineers? Farther ahead of you at what?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Their background tech level, compared to Earth's."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Well, they have FTL, fancy demonproof computers, the chips..." She describes other things she's heard them refer to.

Permalink Mark Unread

"Were they at roughly modern-Earth levels a hundred years ago? Two hundred? Were they at 1900s-Earth levels a century before they were at 2000s-Earth levels..."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I don't know."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I might ask the next time I see my alt or someone else from Abaddon around."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I wonder if Bar can answer the question."

Permalink Mark Unread

To a very rough approximation, they were more similar to Earth's tech level five hundred years ago, allowing of course for different research priorities, infrastructure availability, outside sources of information, etcetera.

Permalink Mark Unread

"And where were they six hundred years ago?"

 

Permalink Mark Unread

With the same caveats perhaps closer to Earth's 1970.

Permalink Mark Unread

She slides the napkins to Matt.

Permalink Mark Unread

"Huh. So humanity'll probably be there in a century or two, tops - the chips, their most impressive tech, isn't actually them - can our kind of Elf be chipped?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"They may or may not have checked yet."

Permalink Mark Unread

"And humans can't?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Putting a chip in a human brain kills them. It's possible it also downloads their brain first and they can thereafter be reinstantiated as an Elf but this has not been tested."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I can't imagine why not." He shudders slightly.

Permalink Mark Unread

"Basement dwellers can only do so much."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Basement dwellers?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Demons can't make minds. Not without technological assistance like the chip-readers, anyway. If they try to make people they get mindless bodies that are for some reason called basement dwellers."

Permalink Mark Unread

"That's good."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Oh so very much yes."

Permalink Mark Unread

He's trembling slightly.

Permalink Mark Unread

"What share of Earth's population d'you' think would move, if the portals were convenient..."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Right now? I honestly don't know."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Couple billion, easily, if you were motivated and did the rollout right and had something appealing on the other side."

Permalink Mark Unread

She shrugs. "Sounds plausible, yeah, although if you went all out on tempting people away you might accidentally panic the existing governments."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Yeah, plausibly. You can add screening but that increases the number of personnel - you can keep it slow but lots of parts of Earth really suck -"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Well, you could treat different parts of the world differently--places without as much military power than the US are less of a problem to panic."

Permalink Mark Unread

"We don't really want North Korea collapsing in our wake... I don't think..."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Yeah, anywhere with nukes is a problem. North Korea has nukes, right?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Yes."

Permalink Mark Unread

"So. Problem."

Permalink Mark Unread

"And, generalizing, figuring out the least destabilizing way to give everyone on Earth freedom of movement is going to take probably a lot of people with a lot of local knowledge to be in communication with most of the important governments, and knowing that nukes are specifically a failure mode might or might not generalize to species without an especially earthlike tech tree - I'd say it's encouraging that even the general trajectory of Abaddon looked like ours but they had the same people - Bar, what percentage of societies with the Internet have nuclear weapons?"

Permalink Mark Unread

I'm afraid I'm hopeless at arithmetic when the numbers get that large.

Permalink Mark Unread

"Can I please have written works about two thousand societies that have satellite-based commercial communications which mention whether that society has nuclear weapons?"

Permalink Mark Unread

You're going to have to narrow it down.

Permalink Mark Unread

"Got satellite-based commercial communications in the last century?"

Permalink Mark Unread

Time is a very inconsistent benchmark, here.

Permalink Mark Unread

"First two thousand such books whose word count is divisible by 179?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"First"?

Permalink Mark Unread

Curufin!!!!!!

Permalink Mark Unread

We're working on immortality. What?

Permalink Mark Unread

You get to ask Bar three questions and from there get an order-of-magnitude estimate of the size of the multiverse. What are the questions?

Permalink Mark Unread

I take it she won't answer the question directly?

Permalink Mark Unread

Can't count that high.

Permalink Mark Unread

Consider the set of works consisting of the longest published work in the world for each world. How many works are there in that set whose word count is divisible by a hundred million?

Permalink Mark Unread

He relays this question to Bar.

Permalink Mark Unread

You do realize that many worlds' works do not have 'wordcount' as a feature?

Permalink Mark Unread

Bits. They have bits, right? You use a certain amount of space to store them, or we would have to, if you sent them to us?

Permalink Mark Unread

That depends on encoding, and I am not a demon and do not do format conversion so it's just as likely that any given work is encoded as clay tablets.

Permalink Mark Unread

"...outsourcing from here," he says to Maglor.

Permalink Mark Unread

"Restricting to the set of universes who've invented computers and further to the set of longest-works that are available in computer format?"

Permalink Mark Unread

Shall I assume that if I protest that there are many ways to build computers you will simply have me narrow it down to those that do in fact reduce to binary?

Permalink Mark Unread

"I will!!"

Permalink Mark Unread

Within the applied scope the answer to the original question is and then it's a stupidly large number in condensed scientific notation.

Permalink Mark Unread

"Thank you!"

Permalink Mark Unread

Permalink Mark Unread

Imliss puts her head in her folded arms and starts laughing tinged with hysteria

Permalink Mark Unread

He puts an arm around her and starts murmuring to Maitimo, nonsense lullabyish syllables.

Permalink Mark Unread

This is the scene that greets him and Cam when they come downstairs.

Permalink Mark Unread

"Is - something wrong?"

Permalink Mark Unread

Imliss doesn't stop laughing. She does pick up the napkin with the large number and wave it like a white flag.

Permalink Mark Unread

"We got an order-of-magnitude estimate on how many worlds there are. Well, how many worlds with computers, now we'll just have to get a percentage-of-worlds-with-any-published-works-that-have-computers-of-the-right-format. People are coping in proportion to how much they think the average life is worth living. Hi."

Permalink Mark Unread

"...hi." Pause. "Hey, Bar, what would strike you as an unusually high suicidality rate by multiversal standards."

Permalink Mark Unread

Perhaps .2%.

Permalink Mark Unread

"...thanks." 

Permalink Mark Unread

"Percentage of worlds with people who can die, and don't believe there's an afterlife where they're judged for their deeds and so on?"

Permalink Mark Unread

We have circled back to the same sorts of problems I typically have with these questions.

Permalink Mark Unread

"Cáno, come up with a procedure for random sampling from Bar -"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Yeah. I'll let you know once we've figured something out. Imliss might be better at it than me, honestly."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Because engineering?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"I'm a poet who has very little business doing anything else but at least a lot of practice at killing things with swords. Coming up with random sampling procedures from that many worlds, that's all yours."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Matt's not doing it because -"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Conceivably useful."

Permalink Mark Unread

 

"Bar, longest written works from all worlds that use Quenya and reference a Melkor or Morgoth - is that an uncountably large number -"

Permalink Mark Unread

409,344,021. Pause. 409,344,027.

Permalink Mark Unread

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

"If anyone finds a 'wipe the multiverse of all life' button don't let me near it -"

Permalink Mark Unread

 

"I sincerely doubt such a button exists but I definitely won't."

Permalink Mark Unread

"How many now -"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Bar, don't answer that. Matt, can I calm you down -"

Permalink Mark Unread

He twitches and makes a horrible strangled whimpering sound. 

Permalink Mark Unread

"Make yourself really good headphones," he says to Cam.

Permalink Mark Unread

"...okay," and now Cam is wearing noise cancelling headphones.

Permalink Mark Unread

And he sings, just a couple notes really, half-whispered, but pouring all of himself into it, they got through the end of the world this way, just the two of them and the omnipresent oath -

Permalink Mark Unread

And he is no longer splintering into a thousand pieces each of which are screaming - 

Permalink Mark Unread

And he is giggling delightedly, he's never felt so safe and happy in his life -

Permalink Mark Unread

--And the stress drains out of her like pasta water through a colander and everything's fine, everything's fantastic--

Permalink Mark Unread

- and this is creepy and Cam is going out to the backyard.

Permalink Mark Unread

He's going to walk with Matt - not touching him but sheparding him - up the stairs to Matt's room - sorry, Imliss, he's going to take a little while to be okay, song'll wear off in a few minutes but not abruptly or anything -

Permalink Mark Unread

It's fine! she calls merrily after him.

Permalink Mark Unread

It is fine! Everything's nice and fine! "Can you hang out by the bar and not let the evil Maitimo open the door and if anyone comes in the door call us? You can let me know to come back as soon as you get tired of it, we just try to make sure that there's always someone here and I think that display of casual large-radius mind-altering magic spooked Cam a bit."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Sure! How do I stop him? Elves are stronger than me! I don't think using magic on him without his consent is allowed by Security! How do I tell him apart from you?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"If you can get to the door first, he can't pull you off it without Security getting involved. If not, just call us so we know what's going on right away. Don't let me near the door either, we're not letting one second longer than we need pass in Abaddon. You can also ask Bar which one it is."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Okay!"

Permalink Mark Unread

The spell wears off as he catches up with Cam. "Sorry," he says.

Permalink Mark Unread

Cam has taken his headphones off. "Thanks for the warning," he says dryly.

Permalink Mark Unread

"My impression is that Matt finds mind control every bit as terrifying as you do, unless he's being mind-controlled into not finding it so, but that his brother has permission to do it anyway in any situation where he's on the brink of completely and permanently breaking, which he was very close to doing. You did see the number of Ardas -"

Permalink Mark Unread

"- increment? Yes."

Permalink Mark Unread

"The engineers are working as fast as they can but they weren't supposed to need to work as fast as they could, it was all supposed to stop and give us time -"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Yeah. The other ones don't have people in here stalling them."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Four hundred nine million Melkors. Wonder how many are shiny-tree and how many are normal..."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Or yet further sorts. Steampunk Arda. Arda where everybody is a wombat. Lot of room for variety."

Permalink Mark Unread

A slightly hysterical laugh. "I have millions of alts, probably."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Maybe you're not the only sane one after all." Sigh. Hug?

Permalink Mark Unread

A hug would be very deeply appreciated. "Matt's annoyed with me."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Why?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"For outing him to his family."

Permalink Mark Unread

"...yes, that's the sort of thing that can become awkward, possibly I should've thought of it before we held hands in front of people..."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Should think it would've been more on me. If we run across yet more I guess we should be careful."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Yeah." Sigh.

Permalink Mark Unread

"Four hundred million Melkors."

Permalink Mark Unread

Squeeze. "Have ever existed. Maybe they've got good alts like you've got an evil one. Maybe somebody else is on the case via non-Milliways means."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Yeah, sure, some of them -

 

- sorry, this is not a productive avenue of conversation -"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Not really, but I understand the temptation to dwell."

Permalink Mark Unread

"The first thing that crossed my mind was 'we need to overthrow the landlords and stop time everywhere, it's worth it even if it only has a one in a hundred million chance of success, the only thing we're risking is whatever bit of the multiverse we'd even be able to rule' -

 

- I am, as you can infer from the fact I said it out loud, not going to do that -"

Permalink Mark Unread

"And then, what, allow the worlds to proceed again only as they come under thrall -? Yeah, kind of a crackpot plan."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I mean, if there were a way to pull it off, yes, that'd what I'd do. But I don't see how - at all -"

Permalink Mark Unread

"And if there's four hundred million Ardas there are probably four hundred million of lots of things, with circumstances we know nothing about, and we don't know how exactly Milliways is embedded into the fabric of the multiverse that it has time-stopping privileges over anywhere it extends a door and can pull all the publications and comestibles and so on for Bar to dispense..."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I would still do it if presented with the means. But yeah."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Yeah." Sigh. Squeeze.

Permalink Mark Unread

The landlords do not proceed to manifest and challenge them to single combat for control of Milliways. He hugs Cam and plops down by the side of the lake and says "the mind-control song was way stronger for Maglor than for Edie and I when we tested immunity. I should probably ask him how he did it."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Was it the same music?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Nope. Maybe he just composed a more powerful one, that could be it. ... it worked within a couple of notes, all the ones we had extant took at least fifteen seconds..."

Permalink Mark Unread

"A couple notes, literally? That should... not work. There are only so many notes."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Yes, I know. I want to ask him - actually, I want some kind of assurance he doesn't do that if my alt's not about to self-destruct, and then I want to ask him - maybe he'd been humming it quietly for a bit in anticipation of the need, but..."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I didn't notice any... preliminary effect..."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Should've warned you sooner, I'm sorry -"

Permalink Mark Unread

"I think I'd have noticed," Cam says uncertainly.

Permalink Mark Unread

"I can ask him but he's probably pretty occupied -"

Permalink Mark Unread

"No hurry."

Permalink Mark Unread

So he cuddles his boyfriend and sits by the water and worries and eventually -

Permalink Mark Unread

Matt thinks you two'll want to check in?

Permalink Mark Unread

Very much, he sends and says aloud for Cam's benefit. Is he okay?

Permalink Mark Unread

Took three days, but yeah.

Permalink Mark Unread

"Three days, geez. - How'd you have the song working that fast?"

Permalink Mark Unread

With enough power and practice you can improvise, get the effects without the exact magical sequences. I think mechanically the answer is something like 'I stored a shortcut'.

Permalink Mark Unread

"So the note sequence wouldn't work for arbitrary people?"

Permalink Mark Unread

Definitely not, no.

Permalink Mark Unread

"Please do make sure I can't hear you before pulling that kind of thing in a shared acoustic space."

Permalink Mark Unread

Yeah, understood. If you're expecting it it's like 'taking a Xanax', not 'hit with a mind-control ray', but I can't imagine it ever being urgent on a scale of seconds.

Permalink Mark Unread

"Xanax," says Cam, "doesn't fuck with me unless I let it."

Permalink Mark Unread

Well, neither will I.

Permalink Mark Unread

"Thanks."

Permalink Mark Unread

Sure. Take care.

Permalink Mark Unread

"At least the universe isn't infinite and I don't have to figure out whether that means nothing actually matters."

Permalink Mark Unread

Squeeze.

Permalink Mark Unread

 

 

 

"Okay, no more moping. We should figure out how to randomly sample from Bar, that'd be useful."

Permalink Mark Unread

"To what extent do you actually need statistics and to what extent would asking her for subjective impressions over the entire population, which apparently she can provide, do the trick?"

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"The things I'm most interested in is 'share of worlds that are pre-industrial vs share of worlds that are industrial-but-not-spacefaring vs share of worlds that are modern or ahead of us', can you think of a way to get that off subjective impressions?"

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"Hm... only if you think 'people who show up in the bar' might be a random sample, or at least from a random sample of worlds if you cut duplicates."

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"Well, it's worth asking, but I'd like something more thorough than that eventually."

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"Yeah. I wonder if people normally batch like we seem to be batching? Or if usually it's one-offs who don't particularly try to exploit the phenomenon, who show up and have lunch and meet some interesting strangers and go home..."

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"Even if my world hadn't been at war I think I'd have been tempted to find an exploit... but maybe I wouldn't have stayed several subjective years, I guess."

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"Yeah, if I didn't have specific extradimensional resource needs and Edie hadn't known people I knew..."

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"Shall we head in and ask?"

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"Sure."

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So Bar is asked, of the people who come into Bar, what share of worlds are pre-industrial and what share are industrial-but-not-spacefaring and what share are modern or ahead of them and what share are not describable that way at all.

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And her best estimate (allowing for her excellent but imperfect memory and after she has been assigned an alternative benchmark for civilizations that do not happen to exist in worlds that have space to fare and a digression about the extent to which magic which isn't "industrially" produced counts) is 30/40/25/5.

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"And how many from worlds with convenient interdimensional transit?"

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It is not too uncommon for worlds to exist with convenient or at least feasible interdimensional transit of some kind within a certain limited set of worlds. Summoning constitutes such a thing, for instance. Broader scope interdimensional transit, even untargeted, is nearly unheard of and if I recall correctly (which I may not) consistently magical in underlying nature.

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"Huh. Thank you." And to Cam, "we'll pretty much lose a war with anyone modern-or-ahead-of-us, that's something to be careful of."

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"If you allow it to play out like a war, yes, if you steal all their tech with demons and go guerilla tactics with magic not necessarily..."

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"If we accidentally teach the portals to somebody who's got magic we can't copy and no reliable interdimensional transit..."

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"Accidentally teach them?"

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"My dads thought they could have the portals in forty years, the hard part's going to be having them unconjurable and not straightforward to reconstruct a conjurable version from. We don't want to be proof-of-concept for some other civilization that'd either given up on interdimensional travel or didn't even know there were dimensions to travel to."

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"Yeah, true. And there could be forms of conjuration without demonic limitations."

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"We'll just have to be careful. Or figure out how to do targeting well-enough to only hit the preindustrial places, they're where we probably make the biggest difference anyway except in unusual cases like Melkors."

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"Preindustrial and no or low magic. Magic's a huge confounder."

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"Though it'd be kind of nice to land some places with transmissible magic, have a lot more tools in our arsenal..."

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"Oh yeah, they're just dangerous to touch in the first place. If we retain Bar access and can do very subtle interdimensional stuff maybe we can sort of scout them..."

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"We should definitely maintain Bar access, no question. My fathers tried and got nowhere on the time-stopping trick, that might be magic-only."

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"We do have a magic-your-father now."

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"Who's somewhat pressed to get immortality for humans before Idaia and Imliss are in their thirties, I take it, but after that his comment on taking Melkor was 'give me several centuries or all three Silmarils'.

 

Thinks he can handle daeva too, though I didn't ask how."

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"He can have several centuries and possibly also all three Silmarils!"

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"Think we can pull the one off Venus?"

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"We'd need a way to hold the door open for days and days but it's not like we're incapable of traveling to Venus. It'd certainly be harder than the other ones though."

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"Convenient occasion to have a fairy. I wonder, if you're dismissed holding a Silmaril, whether it goes with you okay - probably does..."

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"I was sort of under the impression your Tyelcormo's fancy spaceship design software wouldn't have a hard time coming up with something Venus-worthy but maybe I was mistaken?"

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"Magic ones might not, can't think why regular ones wouldn't."

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"We can definitely spaceship it," he says to Imliss, "it'll just take a long time to get there."

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"Macalaure asked if we had any close friends who should ideally be fetched if we're going to be here a long time, and the answer is yes, Idaia's roommate found out and they're pretty close, so I was thinking we should get her while we had the door open anyway for Silmaril purposes."

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"And you're very, very sure of her?"

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"...In what way, exactly? I mean, I'm pretty sure the answer is yes, but..."

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"Not persuadable by my evil alt to help him pull stuff off, most importantly, unlikely to think it's funny to grab a Silmaril and run off..."

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"Oh, definitely."

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"Then we can probably do that once your Fëanor's gotten immortality done and needs them for whatever he's doing next."

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"Yeah, Daphne is...well, first of all, one time she gave a spontaneous lecture on consent to someone who was making a rape joke, and I'm pretty sure if you asked her if she'd make off with a Silmaril she'd say 'I don't want to literally die.' So. And--yeah, not urgent, not even a little bit urgent until Idaia stops spending the vast majority of her time holed up in her room with her husband anyway."

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"Should anyone be doing anything about that? Tyelcormos don't do that when psychologically healthy but I don't want to confuse cause and effect and assume he'll be happier if encouraged to do things that are not 'stay in one room with his wife'."

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"It's also possible Milliways time subjectivity is at play and it hasn't been that long for them."

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"Yeah, true. Oh, Bar, our other question was whether people typically, uh, pile up in Milliways like this or if we're unusual."

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Occasionally the door will go on a streak of some kind, and occasionally someone will use the door or other mechanisms to accumulate more people in the establishment from their world, and occasionally the two are combined; but most landlord-initiated door-openings produce individuals who stay briefly, encounter no alts of themselves or anyone they know, do not attempt to invite others in, and go home. Some are "regulars" and some are one-time visitors.

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"Thanks. And have people ever gotten evicted for annoying the landlords?"

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It is typically possible to identify other possible explanations for patron departure.

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"Fair enough."

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The door has been known to temporarily overtly keep people in, but this is atypical and does not tend to last longer than a subjective day or two.

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"Huh, what tends to prompt that, can you guess?"

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It most typically manifests when someone encounters the bar only to attempt to immediately turn around and leave.

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"And the landlords want them to at least give it a chance?"

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That would be the obvious conclusion, but all my evidence is circumstantial.

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"Thanks."

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You're welcome.

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"We can take back over here if you want," he says to Imliss.

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"Thanks, I'm kind of emotionally exhausted right now when I'm not hopped up on high-octane happiness songs."

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"Yeah, I don't blame you. Get some rest, we'll guard against my alt and miscellanous wanderers-in."

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"Thanks," she says.

She goes upstairs.

She heads for her sister's room instead of her own.

She pounds on the door.

"If you're doing something I'd rather not witness, please finish as quickly as you can and then come let me in, I really need to hug my sister right now."

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He wakes Idaia up. Imliss's here. 


They get dressed.

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"What happened?" Idaia asks when they've gotten the door open and Imliss has all but fallen on her clinging as much as Tyelcormo usually does these days.

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"Talked to Matt. Probably a bad idea," she mumbles.

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Sigh.

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"The way I did it, not in general...or maybe it's not that it's a bad idea, just--I said some things I needed to say, but they hurt."

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Hugs. She does not seem terribly inclined to share what she had to say, just to hug her sister.

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Yeah, that's okay.

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"You kinda woke me up, how tired are you?"

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"...Tired."

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"D'you think the bed's big enough for three people?"

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"Bet we'll manage."

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"Great," she says, smothering a yawn. "Come hug me in a bed so I can go back to sleep."

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"'Kay."

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He holds Idaia and hums and watches them both fall asleep.

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Edie wanders downstairs into the bar, doing something on her computer.

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"Hi."

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"Hi! How have you been doing?"

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"Bar, now how many worlds are there with published works in Quenya referencing a Melkor?"

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The number has not incremented since you last asked.

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"We asked. It was four hundred nine million."

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...

"Okay. Is focusing on this going to actually improve your capacity to fix it."

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"No."

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"Is it unpleasant?"

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"Yes!"

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"Then maybe you shouldn't do it."

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"I am not doing it deliberately."

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"Fair enough. Do you want me to take over door duty while you go do something to take your mind off it, or is that unlikely to work?"

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"Not likely to work, but thanks. I kind of want to index the Ardas by shiny-tree or normal or other and when in the timeline it is and so on in case we do figure out targeted dimensional travel, but..."

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"But millions of them?"

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"More 'I don't know if that's just an unhelpful form of dwelling.'"

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"Fair enough."

She sits down on one of the couches with her computer, still fiddling with whatever-it-is.

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"What're you working on?"

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"Learning blessing design."

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"What for?"

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"Custom blessings for one's spouse is an Abbadon marriage thing."

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"Awww.

 

...Findekáno's ridiculously good at that if you want debugging help or ideas or a strategy to pull off something complicated."

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"Ooh, yes, that sounds lovely."

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"Bar, can I have a book in Quenya that is titled 'the defeat of Melkor' or something similar, if there are lots of them can I have one from an Arda that has the most published works in common with my own..."

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Here's one! It's short. The spelling is terrible. It's pretty clear within a paragraph that it's weird porn fanfic.

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"Can you filter by genre or something."

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Here's one about the first war, where he was imprisoned for a while?

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"Does he get defeated for a second time or are all of the Ardas just blighted hellscapes forever."

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Aha, here's one about his eventual defeat by the Valar after all the shit that happened to Matt-and-co. went down?

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"Thank you!

 

 

 

 

They marched in. With an army of people with swords. And one guy with a flying ship - Bar, do you have any books like this from Ardas that have invented the television -"

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Sure, here's its analogue from a multiplanet Arda.

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"Thank you." He settles down to reading. "...Cam, I think this is pretty much 'what would have happened in Singularity, without you..."

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"...do I wanna know?"

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"I think you will feel more confident in the rightness of your decisions? On the other hand it is not a pleasant read."

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"...okay." Cam makes himself a copy and plops down next to his Maitimo to read it.

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They didn't know to be wary of escalating. They landed and opened fire all along the orcish front lines, with weapons unprecedented on Endorë, they took back several hundred miles of land in a three-week-long opening bloodbath. Two years and two hundred million orcs dead later they were finally within in range to take Angband, and that's when all of their new-won territory went up in a series of nuclear bombs. Fëanáro died - and that, opines the author - is when the war was lost, though it lasted nearly six hundred years longer -

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"Fuck," Cam murmurs.

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"Yep."

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"Your prediction was accurate. Fucking noshow Valar."

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In the ensuing year without a summer two hundred million people starve. Biological weapons make a whole continent uninhabitable. Maitimo's captured. Findekáno flies into Angband on a suicide server-destruction mission and Manwë helps him get out with a chip that they're really not sure they should bring back. (They do anyway - they need him -)

 

They work with the Dwarves; they use nukes too; everyone swears to stop that. They get anti-missile systems up, they catch most of the rockets the Enemy is throwing at them, they disperse people into small cities the Enemy can't find. The planet's population falls from 5 billion to a billion over the slow grind of four centuries, and then the Enemy gives Doriath a Silmaril and launches his final offensive. 

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"Annnnd the Silmaril thing bites them..."

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"Means the Enemy didn't ever figure out how to redirect backups, whatever small comfort that is."

 

 

And they level Doriath from a thousand miles away, only to find the Silmaril is not anywhere in the ruins, it's been smuggled south instead...

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Ugh. Ugh ugh ugh.

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And a ship slips out in the chaos of the fall of Sirion and breaks orbit and there's a vicious fight in space for control of one of the few remaining lightleapers and then Elwing takes her Silmaril and leaps with it, and several years of wandering later she points her ship towards Valinor and begs the Valar to intervene. 

 

 

A footnote in the account of reconstruction after the war of the Valar and Melkor notes that the surviving Fëanorians fought their way into the space station that was the base of operations of the Valar, stole the last two Silmarils, and flew into Endorë's Sun with them. 

Permalink Mark Unread

 

Hugs for his Maitimo.

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Hugs. Lots of that.

 

 

 

"Bar - any like this, but from a world with native summoning -"

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I'm afraid not.

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"Does that mean he never gets stopped at all."

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I have no particular ability to predict the future.

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"How many native-summoning Ardas are there with published works at least six hundred years in the future -"

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214.

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"So no books titled 'the defeat of Melkor', are there books about it -"

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...here's a book...

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He is pretty sure this isn't healthy or something but he'll read the book.

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In this Arda the Valar sat around for ages and then simultaneously holed Earth and Endorë!

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He shows it to Cam and might be giggling a little hysterically or something.

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Cam doesn't do hysterical laughter but he looks at the page, sets his jaw, nods.

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That is enough reading about other Ardas for the day.

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Agreed.

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That is enough reading about other Ardas for several weeks, but he spends them productively. Plays a game of Governor with Midnight and tells him about Matt and why it's probably not a good idea for the two of them to interact. Gets more catalogues and makes a very neatly organized list of things to offer daeva. 

 

Findekáno finds his apparent propensity for suicidal rescue missions amusing. But Findekáno is a hero in every single Arda they've read about, so. 

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And at some point he is sitting in the Bar, reading (not histories of Arda, what would that help. He asked the Bar when no one was around if Fingon'd ever written anything, and he hadn't, and so he's been reading miscellaneous histories of non-Ardas) and another him walks in. "Hi," he says.

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"Oh, I'm not Circle. If you were looking for him." The person he's addressing is also obviously not Circle, and not just because of the absence of Cam; this one is in a great deal of pain and basically indifferent to everything around him and 'indifferent' isn't a look that he's seen on Circle. 

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The evil one. He looks tense. Probably because everyone hates him; that'd make it very unpleasant to come down here. He does it anyway, because loneliness is even more unpleasant. Matt's reflexive reaction is sympathy, he's so good at lonely people and here is a problem he can fix and one he vividly remembers. But this one is apparently lonely for a reason -

He defaults to neutrality. "Wasn't looking for anyone. I have instructions to stop you from opening the door, though."

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So he knows that everyone hates Midnight, but not why. Probably Circle would have wanted to warn him without telling the whole story, Circle would have noticed immediately how fragile this one is... "I won't open the door. I won't leave just because Circle thinks we shouldn't talk, though."

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"What exactly did you do?"

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"Lot of things. My world's not as nice as yours. People use mind-control a lot more, people use binding oaths a lot more, there were political assassinations. I did all of that."

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"I killed several hundred thousand people."

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"I think they're giving you a pass because you're so miserable over it."

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"I don't think so." They're - giving him a pass is the wrong word, Circle's considering it a close brush with fate himself, Edie and Emily have noticed how strongly their alts identify with his family and aren't going to try to persuade them otherwise, Cam's - Cam's sad. Cam's glad Circle won't end up in that situation. Cam's a mystery beyond that. 

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"Are you going to fall apart, Circle was under the impression you are constantly inches from falling apart."

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"I'm pretty sure if you hurt me very badly you won't be able to tell. I'd be even more sure, if it were anyone else."

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"I had Nolofinwë assassinated and afterwards Findekáno wouldn't forgive me but I kept him anyway. People - sort of knew. Three hundred years. ...he's okay."

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"No, he isn't."

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"Have you considered asking him -"

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Oh, Midnight's having a hard time reading him; everyone else must have reacted much more viscerally. "I had to relearn facial expressions and do not do them by default, which is why I am reacting as if sort of bored."

 

Should he talk to the Findekáno. A happy conversation that will be, two horribly traumatized people curled up in different corners of the room, all of it Maitimo's fault - he wants to talk to a Findekáno, he wants to see one alive and well and whole, that doesn't make it a good idea. And it's not about him anyway and he can't evaluate whether interacting with this Findekáno will be good for the Findekáno- "I don't know if talking with him would help or not. I can't handle being touched, which might help, but I'm planning to kill myself as soon as they invent the means, which might make me not the best candidate."

Findekáno Findekáno - how many different ways can I invent to hurt you - but Midnight doesn't even believe he's hurt him at all - "Anyway, I might talk to him if we might be good for each other or something. I don't need to ask him to know if he's okay. He's not okay. I can't think if it's a good idea to try to make you understand -"

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All of this 'I can't help you understand' is so infuriating - "That sounds like a really good idea, why would it be a bad idea -"

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"The way I'd do it would be letting you read my mind but I'd need to be sure I'm not in Angband and I'm not sure. I don't think I'll ever be sure enough."

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"Right. I'll - let him know you offered - did you offer -" This is a different kind of 'upset' than the other ones, and more upsetting. He turns around to go upstairs.

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"I guess I did."

 

And he is still sitting there fixedly when Cam and Circle come downstairs. "I met the evil alt."

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"You okay?"

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"My options and my preference ordering over them has not changed."

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"I don't know if I follow."

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"It's a situation I could do something about if I were sure I wasn't in Angband. Whenever I'm presented with those I become slightly more convinced I am in Angband. But I'm kind of relieved. Means I didn't kill all those people."

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"What would you do if you were sure you weren't in Angband-"

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"Show him. Try to make him understand. We can't actually toss him to a Melkor, so -"

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"That wouldn't be justified, no."

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"But he genuinely doesn't understand and he needs to and yet I'm not willing to share private thoughts with someone who might be the Enemy."

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"That's fair. 

 

 

Is there anything we can do -"

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"Invent a way to kill a Vala."

Permalink Mark Unread

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"Okay. 

 

 

There are around a hundred million of you, should I expect to have to swing in and kill them all -"

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"Would you?" he says hopefully.

Permalink Mark Unread

 

 

"Yeah."

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...no comment.

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"Sorry," he says to Cam.

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"I'll live."

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"There are ways to resurrect people. Not here, but a lot of places in the multiverse. If you just find existence intolerable that's one thing but if it's about personal safety, helping us make the multiverse safe will help more - I need your family and they'd take it really hard -"

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"I'm here, aren't I? If you need me, that's fine. Just - don't deliberately find uses for me so you have excuses to keep me alive."

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"Okay." 

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God that's depressing.

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Yep. Even before you multiply it by probably a hundred million. 

 

 

 

He sits down. "I suppose you've asked Nechar if he can do anything."

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"I have not. What would he be able to do?"

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"Safely put you in a coma until we find magic that can fix it, maybe?"

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"...might ask about that after the wedding."

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That would represent a less-depressing improvement!

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Squeeze. Sigh. "Matt, I don't suppose there are any secret project notes or whatever that you know for sure didn't fall into Enemy hands -"

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"No. I've been perusing a lot of Earth media, enough to pretty much convince myself Earth exists or existed - but I can't be completely sure -"

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"Do you want recommendations or would that be beside the point?"

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"Oh, did you grow up on an Earth like Edie did? Recommendations would be lovely!"

 

(Circle winces slightly.)

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...Cam notices the wince, doesn't know what to make of it. "Yeah, I grew up on the same Earth Edie did, actually. What've you gone through already, some stuff has prerequisites."

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So he lists off some late-20th-century media, with comments - mostly about the acting, he really adores good acting, he really likes this one actor and he couldn't watch this show because the cinematography wasn't pretty enough...

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And Cam sorts through his notes on various things for stuff with good acting and cinematography, and picks some books, and assembles a list and makes a copy for Matt.

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"Thank you so much," he says, and practically skips off upstairs.

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"Should I be creeped," Cam asks Circle.

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"I mean, he's decided it will be more comfortable for everyone if he stops acting like a font of depressing comments and starts acting like a person, so he's doing that now. It'd be convincing if it'd been less abrupt. I don't know if you should be creeped. I don't know what to - I don't think I actually can go hopping around the multiverse killing a hundred million mes - maybe it gets easier -"

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"Maybe." At least Cam did not have to kill everybody he killed one at a time up close.

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Hug.

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Sigh. Hug.

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"Sorry it just keeps - coming up -"

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"It's fine, it's the sort of thing that comes up, I'm not going to hole up in my room and play golf simulators forever to avoid being reminded."

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"Good, I'd be pretty worried if you took to that."

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"Golf simulators are terrible," says Cam. "They simulate golf. Why would anyone want to do that?"

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"We should test-drive some of those zero-g games I want to give Tyelcormo and Edie for their wedding."

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"Yes. We must make sure they are better than golf."

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"I pride myself on my reputation for giving good presents and I will be very sad if there are zero-g games as boring as golf."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Do you actually know what golf is or are you just assuming that my taste is impeccable?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"I have seen golf referenced as tedious in several contexts at this point. I couldn't tell you the rules, but your taste is shared!"

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"Yeah, of my opinions 'golf is boring' is not a very original one."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I will be very trusting of your eccentric opinions, too, don't worry."

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"Figure skating is overrated."

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"Oh, we have that, if it's the same thing. Elf figure skating is not overrated, it's stunning."

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"Should I watch some Elf figure skating?"

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"I wouldn't go so far as 'best form of entertainment' but it's awfully fun."

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"Recommend me a sample."

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So he recommends some Elf figure skating routines. 

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And Cam takes notes. "For whenever I feel like watching something. For whatever it's worth human figure skating - or daeva - gets pretty good too, people just get really excited over the same handful of tricks executed in every routine. ...Fairies cheat, they don't count."

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"We practically cheat. There are blessings for it."

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"Then," says Cam, "I will judge the skaters by fairy standards, see if I don't."

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"How terribly unfair of you! We cheat, we don't have fully general telekinesis!"

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Wag. "Well, the fairies aren't supposed to outright fly while they're skating, so surely it evens out?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"How will I ever explain to my citizens that I picked a boyfriend who has unreasonably high standards for their figure skating? It'll be ruinous, politically!"

Permalink Mark Unread

...snort.

Permalink Mark Unread

Kiss. 

Permalink Mark Unread

Kiss!

Permalink Mark Unread

"Findekáno asked how much I was planning to have public and I said that was a complicated problem which he probably had good insight into and which I didn't want to discuss with him ever, sorry. I suppose that was childish."

Permalink Mark Unread

"...how much are you planning to have public?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"That's a complicated problem which you probably have some insight into and which I am willing to discuss with you, congratulations."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I wouldn't actually object to you discussing it with Findekáno if that seems like it might be useful, you know."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I appreciate that. I - mine's not dramatic, that doesn't mean he's over it, and he'd be tremendously helpful but I'm going to be leaning on him hard enough in a professional capacity and leaning on him in a personal capacity in addition to that seems probably unfair."

Permalink Mark Unread

"You're the expert."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Simplest thing to do is just have you be one of the many demons summoned to handle infrastructure and large-scale distribution stuff as we roll out the portals - people will notice the lack of a binding, I will observe that there haven't been problems have there."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I could be lying in wait for an opportunity."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Wonder if the magic Elves can do anything with their magic that'd spoof a binding."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I'm not sure how all-purpose to expect their stuff to be."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Likewise. There's also pretending you're not a daeva but I like the wings and tail and anyway then you can't do useful things and I'm guessing you like doing useful things. Then there's 'be open about the whole story, but not about the fact we're involved, which might be wise because it'll come out eventually and which saves me the political trouble I'll be inviting if I just go 'hi, everyone, we're making a go at ruling the multiverse and this is my boyfriend Cam, he's helping'."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I do like doing useful things. And my extremities. My balance is even worse without them! You don't think the being involved'll come out?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Some people'll know. They won't talk about it without permission. ...they'll probably come to me worried but once they confirm they needn't be they won't talk about it without permission."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Worried about what exactly -?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"It's not fair or anything but the unbound daeva back home weren't very nice -"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Ah."

Permalink Mark Unread

Nuzzle. "Most people will worry for half a second, think 'wait, it's a Fëanorian, they respond so badly to coercion you can actually get them to make major strategic mistakes just by vaguely implying you think you have power over them', and stop, but some might ask, and then they will be reassured, and then they will shut up."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Well, people might also be worried that you were quietly making major strategic mistakes."

Permalink Mark Unread

"There's a pile of history books there to confirm that my major strategic mistakes do not look very quiet."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Worried parties might not have done the same background reading."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I'm pretty sure I can handle my people. I can in fact swear to it, if it comes to that."

Permalink Mark Unread

"...how do you swear to be able to handle your people, or do you mean you can swear that I'm not being awful to you with my being-unbound?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"The latter. And it wouldn't be 'being awful to me', it'd be 'achieve this goal I want or horrifyingly many people die', which still wouldn't work but I understand why they'd check."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Ah, gotcha."

Permalink Mark Unread

Squeeze. "If it's an upsetting subject I can mostly navigate it on my own, tell you what I come up with."

Permalink Mark Unread

"It is a little and I don't feel overwhelmingly likely to come up with ideas more serious than 'pretend to be a gargoyle' but it seems weird to abdicate the decisionmaking..."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Yeah, it would feel weird to just present you with it. Honestly, not making public what happened in Singularity is excruciatingly tempting - time's not passing there, there's no real way it leaks - but it's not the greatest precedent to start an empire with."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Time'll pass there again someday."

Permalink Mark Unread

"And by then we will have fixed it."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I don't expect that to make much of a PR difference."

Permalink Mark Unread

"By that point you'll also probably have had effectively arbitrary power in the multiverse for years and not done anything objectionable, maybe that'll steady people.  ...I'm okay with keeping our relationship secret, I really dislike the idea of having you unable to actually do anything except advise secretly -"

Permalink Mark Unread

"I'm not actually a good actor..."

Permalink Mark Unread

"People sort of assign daeva inscrutability and incomprehensibility by default, you might be able to slide by on that for a while."

Permalink Mark Unread

"People in your world," says Cam.

Permalink Mark Unread

"Most places we're going will have no idea what a black hole is."

Permalink Mark Unread

"They will probably know what a planet is, or in this case used to be; and even if they don't know what a planet is they'll probably know enough about numbers to understand how many people died."

Permalink Mark Unread

"So we can pretty much choose between 'tell the truth, not be able to use you for anything because people will be terrified' and 'lie by omission, hope that this even works and ignore that it's otherwise objectionable'."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Might be able to very selectively deploy me in, I don't know, particularly understanding locales or something," Cam sighs, "but yeah."

Permalink Mark Unread

"What do you want? Setting aside for a minute how and with what tradeoffs we could pull it off, what role would you like to have in all the empire-building? I shouldn't assume you want to lay down infrastructure just because you're a demon."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I do actually have a long-held ambition to terraform Mars, I wouldn't mind doing infrastructure, but I'm more interested in policy sort of stuff for the longer term I think. I don't have a particular interest in roles with a lot of facetime anyway, I'm not a people person the way you are."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Well, 'keep you out of sight, consult you on policy' is straightforward and shouldn't get people panicked."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Yeah."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Are you going to be okay with that?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Mm - not caring much if I deal with people as part of whatever my job description is isn't the same as not caring if I have to, to skulk around, if there are places I can't be or meetings I have to catch up with by reading the minutes afterwards or something - I'll be okay though."

Permalink Mark Unread

 

"I think within a couple years all of the Noldor should be fine. Everywhere else is harder to predict.

 

Job description: catalogue all the new magic systems we get, test stuff, organize testing of more complex stuff, find ways we can stack it and so forth usefully?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"...that sounds fun."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Good. You deserve some fun and I suspect you'll be excellent at it."

Permalink Mark Unread

Wag.

Permalink Mark Unread

"And it means we just have to find a few people per universe who can do math and appreciate you accordingly."

Permalink Mark Unread

"If that's what you want to call the prerequisite."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I know you don't feel comfortable defending yourself but I feel very strongly someone ought to."

Permalink Mark Unread

"It's sweet." Cam flops his head on Maitimo's shoulder. "I love you."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I love you too. I - I wish we'd found you sooner."

Permalink Mark Unread

"That would've been - would've been good."

Permalink Mark Unread

Snuggles. Sigh.

Permalink Mark Unread

Snuggles. Snuggly snuggles.

Permalink Mark Unread

The twins wake. Imliss leaves. Idaia continues snugging her husband and occasionally going downstairs for assorted reasons and being delighted by the contents of her demon-provided wardrobe. She solicits and receives some of her favorite wedding presents from her alt. 

A few weeks subjective pass.

Permalink Mark Unread

He never stops holding her. He still can't really believe she's alive and safe.

Permalink Mark Unread

She continues to be alive and safe!

And increasingly nervous as they approach the three week mark of realizing they had forgotten any kind of protection.

Permalink Mark Unread

He would hug her more tightly but he kind of can't. 

Permalink Mark Unread

Not without leaving bruises, at any rate.

When it's finally three weeks, she goes for the box of pregnancy tests she hid under the bed. Her hands are trembling.

Permalink Mark Unread

Love you love you love you love you -

Permalink Mark Unread

Love you too. That's not even a little bit of what worries me.

Permalink Mark Unread

I know accidental children are really really horrible but at least we're here, we're safe...

Permalink Mark Unread

What if the others think I'm an irretrievably irresponsible person?

Permalink Mark Unread

Well, they'd better think we both are.

Permalink Mark Unread

What if the others think we're irretrievably irresponsible people?

Permalink Mark Unread

Then they will be people who have opinions about us and you know what I do about people having opinions about us?

Permalink Mark Unread

Normally people having opinions about us aren't your father and brothers! Also Milliways doesn't have dungeons.

Permalink Mark Unread

Oh, I didn't mean 'throw them in dungeons', I meant 'give zero fucks'. Including my father and brothers.

Permalink Mark Unread

I don't know if I can follow that example.

Permalink Mark Unread

Squeeze.

Permalink Mark Unread

Probably I'm worrying over nothing and they'll never find out. ...Carry me to the bathroom so I can use these things?

Permalink Mark Unread

He will do that.

Permalink Mark Unread

And she pees on the stupid stick and waits for it to say positive or negative.

"Fuck," she breathes, and throws the stupid stick against a wall, and puts her head in her hands and trembles.

Permalink Mark Unread

Hug.

 

Permalink Mark Unread

"I don't want them to think we're irretrievably irresponsible."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I mean, half-human babies grow up fast, we could try a series of wacky shenanigans in which we don't see them at all until we magically have an adult child we found somewhere. But that'd be stupid."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Also it would involve isolating them for their entire childhood."

Permalink Mark Unread

"No, no, of course not, among the wacky shenanigans would be sneaking out into town and kidnapping a preschool.

 

 

We should probably just tell everyone."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Mhm."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Though your wish is my command if you wanna kidnap a preschool."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I've been dead for all the atrocities so far and would like to keep it that way."

Permalink Mark Unread

Hug. "Well. We have a year to stop being dysfunctional people."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Yeah.

 

This is cowardly of me to ask but can you tell everyone, I don't know if I can face them until I know how they'll react."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Yeah, of course." Squeeze. "Right now?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Is there any reason to wait?"

Permalink Mark Unread

Attention all interested parties, he sends her and his family and Imliss and the alt-Idaia and the alt-Imliss and the alt-him and the alt-Maitimo and Cam, we're having a baby!  We kind of might not have done it on purpose but Idaia is now pregnant and that means if you are mean to her at all, including vaguely thinking while in proximity to her that this was irresponsible of us, I will throw you in the lake and talk the giant squid into keeping you there. So get all your thinking-that-was-irresponsible out of the way and then help us decorate a nursery because Idaia is going to be the absolute best mother in the entire multiverse and this baby is going to be the happiest, safest, most loved baby in all of history anywhere. 

Permalink Mark Unread

"I think he's talking to you, dear," Edie says to her fiancé, recalling when she had told him this might be a possibility.

Permalink Mark Unread

"Yeah, okay, it's not as if I can actually with a straight face criticize people for fucking up and not being responsible - Idaia's sixteen, is that dangerous or something -"

Permalink Mark Unread

"...The infirmary's supposed to be categorically adequate."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Should we go help them decorate a nursery - or something -"

Permalink Mark Unread

"We definitely don't have to do that if this is stressing you out."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I think it'd mean a lot to them."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Yeah. 

Um. 

I was thinking...it can wait until after nursery-helping, if all this stresses you out."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I'm okay.

Accidental children aren't a - thing we have.

 

The whole 'fuck it, I do what I want' thing doesn't apply to bringing people into the world."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I'm pretty sure this was genuinely an accident.

And it's not like Milliways is a terrible place to bring a child into."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Yeah, I know. There's a war on but only sort of."

Permalink Mark Unread

"...And, um, feel perfectly free to shut me down if this is a terrible idea, but--if we wait to have kids until we're out of Milliways they grow up royalty. If we don't, the sprog currently in progress doesn't grow up the only child around."

Permalink Mark Unread

"...okay, true....were we gonna avoid instantiating the uterine replicators until we had a way to take daeva, though -"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Maybe? I don't think we were going to leave until we had a way to take daeva, though, and I don't think it's a problem until we do..."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Probably not. Uh. We can think about it - we should at least get married first, and being married's supposed to be pretty distracting...."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Yeah. We don't have to decide right now."

Permalink Mark Unread

Hug.

Permalink Mark Unread

Hug. Wingsnuggle.

Permalink Mark Unread

"So, shall we go be supportive alts?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Sounds like a plan. 

...Emily and I were an accident. Accidental children should generally be avoided but aren't inherently tragic."

Permalink Mark Unread

"It's probably a species thing. Elf children suffer, a lot, if they don't have two parents who can be there for them all the time. Even knowing that might not even be true with half-children..."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Well, that's not a concern in this case. Your alt was already metaphorically glued to her side."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Yeah, I noticed. It'll turn out okay."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Yeah."

Permalink Mark Unread

"And as a vote of confidence we should go decorate their nursery."

Permalink Mark Unread

"...Do they even have one yet?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Doubt it. We could maybe ask Bar about getting them a bigger room, don't know."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Still. We can go up and talk to them about stuff."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Yeah."

Permalink Mark Unread

 

Cam writes Edie a note. Your read on whether your alt definitely wants to keep the baby and isn't running on inertia/Elf cultural runoff? Just occurred to me I may be the only person in the bar even technically qualified to perform an abortion but I don't want to offend her if even mentioning it would do that.

Permalink Mark Unread

 

I need at least five minutes in a room with her before I can answer that question.

Permalink Mark Unread

Okay. Availability exists. Thanks for running interference.

Permalink Mark Unread

And they make it up the stairs to their alts' room.

Permalink Mark Unread

When he is holding Idaia and singing.

Permalink Mark Unread

Idaia looks simultaneously elated and terrified and has one hand pressed to her abdomen.

Permalink Mark Unread

Hi, he says.

Permalink Mark Unread

Hi! I don't think you actually have a nursery, here, you should probably get a new suite from Bar.

Permalink Mark Unread

Yeah. Maybe in a bit. Squeeze.

Permalink Mark Unread

"Congrats. Given any thought to names?"

Permalink Mark Unread

He shakes his head and looks at Idaia.

Permalink Mark Unread

"I was thinking...maybe Artemis or Diana, if it was a girl. If that wouldn't be touching a sore spot. I haven't thought of any good boys' names yet."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Will we not know until our baby's born - that's so weird -"

Permalink Mark Unread

"There's ways of finding out before the baby's born, but I don't know if they'll even show up on ultrasound yet."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Is there tricky demon stuff?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"...Yeah, I can do that."

Permalink Mark Unread

He squeezes Idaia. "Do you want to know?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Yes. I'd like that."

Permalink Mark Unread

So Edie conjures a microscope and a slide and, after a moment's pause, reports, "Two X chromosomes."

Permalink Mark Unread

Squeeze. "We have a daughter! I like Artemis. Artemis Seréfinwë."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Beautiful."

Permalink Mark Unread

Edie conjures a note for Cam in one pocket.

She's nervous about people judging her for the 'accident' part but she wants the kid.

Permalink Mark Unread

And when Cam gets this he replies Okay. I did take all the medical demon classes if she needs anything else the infirmary lady can't handle, although Bar's probably the better pharmacist.

Permalink Mark Unread

Artemis Seréfinwë--oh, my little girl, we've been waiting so long, I'm sorry we didn't wait a little longer but we both love you so very much.

Permalink Mark Unread

You're safe, you're safe, you'll always be safe...

Permalink Mark Unread

I love you both so much.

Permalink Mark Unread

We'll get it together. We'll do okay.

Permalink Mark Unread

Yeah. We will.

Permalink Mark Unread

I love you so much. 

Permalink Mark Unread

I love you too, so much.

Permalink Mark Unread

And downstairs he sighs and says "well, I suppose it could be a worse time for it."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Milliways seems like a weird environment to raise a kid in but not unfeasible."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I should ask one of the new alts how quickly Elf-human hybrids grow - also, can I comment on the implausibility of Elves and humans hybridizing, what -"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Well, these are magic Elves, maybe nonmagic ones can't. Especially the natural cyborg kind, that seems like it might run into issues."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Of course. How could I forget. Magic Elves. You'd think they'd come with built in magic birth control."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Maybe they do but it doesn't work with humans or something."

Permalink Mark Unread

He shudders. "Could be."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Humans have accidental pregnancies - not all the time any more, on my Earth, but it used to be all the time."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Well, we can fix that. ...if magic Elves don't have magic birth control that'd explain why they consider sex marriage, that's the only other way to really do it..."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Human societies often tried that. Well, not equating the two so much as forbidding the one without the other. It didn't work that well."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Right, humans are a bit less - law-abiding. Well, I assume by now there's reliable birth control, yes?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Pretty darn. There's always freak accidents, but they're really rare at this point."

Permalink Mark Unread

Shudder. "Maybe I'll ask the biology teams if they'll work something up for any commonly occurring species that don't have one already."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Well, there's two problems, there's getting it to work and there's getting it universally adopted."

Permalink Mark Unread

"That'll be a problem?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Yeah. I mean, generalizing from humans. Religious reasons or not understanding biology well enough to trust that it does what it's supposed to and not something else or one party wants the kid and the other doesn't and only the one has to sabotage the method - when you're emperor of the multiverse I suppose you can avoid the failure mode 'carrying it around makes you look like a prostitute and then you get arrested' -"

Permalink Mark Unread

"...yeah, that one will not be a problem. 

 

It's never come up but I think sabotaging a partner's birth control would carry a stiffer sentence than murder, back home."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Keep them in a treehouse for two weeks?..."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Swear never to do that or anything like it again or leave the planet with an implant warning everyone you meet what you did."

Permalink Mark Unread

"How do warning implants work?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Chip-loaded - I mentioned you can see if people are married, if they have the marriage blessings loaded? Similarly I can see if someone's committed a crime that warranted flagging them. I suppose they could go to a human civilization and get away without complications but we didn't realize there was a sophisticated human civilization."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Humans, Dwarves," says Cam. "...What would happen with Sabotage Offspring?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"I have no idea. The situation would be unprecedented in so many ways - people would be happy to adopt the child, of course..."

Permalink Mark Unread

 

"I guess under this social background abortion's not a thing at all, is it?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Killing the baby? No - no, that would not come up."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Comes up with humans."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Well, we can fix that, too."

Permalink Mark Unread

"...can you."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I assume people are not very likely to want to kill their child if they aren't having accidental pregnancies in the first place?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Not nearly as likely. And good medical care can make up most of the remaining gap and good economic safety nets can make up most of the rest."

Permalink Mark Unread

"And we can do that."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Yep. And that will close most of the gap and that's assuming humans are the most abortion-happy species you ever meet."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I wasn't expecting we'd get the crime rate to zero everywhere."

Permalink Mark Unread

Permalink Mark Unread

"...hmm?"

Permalink Mark Unread

 

 

"I'm not completely sure I should even try to have this conversation but it might affect a multiversal empire, so. Context - abortion is legal most places on my Earth, and was legal but controversially so throughout my lifetime in my country. Its political opponents bundled a lot of other, even more unappealing propositions which probably colors my judgment some."

Permalink Mark Unread

"And your judgment is-"

Permalink Mark Unread

"...mostly my judgment is that your judgment was formed in conditions of idyll?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"I'll grant that."

Permalink Mark Unread

"And I don't want to, like, pull out horror stories, here, because you can in fact avoid the overwhelming majority of the horror stories with a good enough economy and good enough healthcare and good enough birth control, and emotional appeals are not top quality debate club skills anyway. But the basic arguments are that fetuses, at least early term ones, are not people yet, and that even if they were they would not be entitled to passenger space."

Permalink Mark Unread

"We've got the uterine replicators. They can do transfers."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Yeah, now you have the uterine replicators."

Permalink Mark Unread

"And if we didn't have them we'd be prioritizing inventing them."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Which would be an entirely defensible research priority, and not really addressing any inconvenient versions of the problem."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I mean, in the case where someone doesn't want to be pregnant very badly, and is not deterrable from trying to stop being pregnant, and there's no way at all to keep their child alive without forcing them to carry her to term, exiling that person for ending the pregnancy does not seem to make anyone's lives better. I don't - might be you can't actually ensure someone carry a pregnancy to term while keeping their conditions humane, might be you can't deter them much by having laws against it - it would be a lot of hard tradeoffs, which I don't have to make, because we do have uterine replicators."

Permalink Mark Unread

"You have them for humans."

Permalink Mark Unread

"And the tradeoffs will be in a different place for every species, depending how much their young develop in the womb, depending how deterrable they are by laws and how easily they can - see, any Elf would regard it as murder but we couldn't actually reduce access, if you wanted your body to stop supporting a baby it would do that..."

Permalink Mark Unread

"And maybe there are people who work like that and don't regard it as murder, or people who for magical reasons can't have their kids gestating outside their original parent's body, or. It's a big multiverse. If your reaction to the topic is 'well lucky I don't have to think about that because we have this thing!' then you're going to wind up stuck in a corner of it. A nice roomy corner, of course, but."

Permalink Mark Unread

Sigh. "Point taken. Course, it's not always going to be conveniently the case that the babies 'aren't really people yet' - sometimes they might be-"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Yes, then you have to evaluate the other argument. And probably take into account how long pregnancies last and how unpleasant they are and so on."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Bar, if people who come through Bar are representative, what share are humans? What share are Elves?"

Permalink Mark Unread

My memory's not long enough to say over everyone who's ever been here. And in some cases the categories get quite fuzzy; I get a lot of patrons who were once human, or became human, or who are part-human; and then there are variants such as that between you and your magical alts both of whom might otherwise be categorized as "Elves".

Humans are very common even by a strict definition, though. Elves less so.

Permalink Mark Unread

"Very common like fifty percent?"

Permalink Mark Unread

By a strict definition, less, by a loose one, more.

Permalink Mark Unread

"Okay."

 

 

Sigh.

Permalink Mark Unread

"I assume I count, loosely."

Permalink Mark Unread

Yes, and more loosely still the naturally occurring daeva of your set of daeva worlds might count likewise, running as they do on basically human physical and mental shapes in most respects.

Permalink Mark Unread

"How many species do you remember meeting?"

Permalink Mark Unread

Again allowing for the fuzziness in the categories and my shortness of memory, somewhere between 3,000 and 210,392,458,000.

Permalink Mark Unread

"Well. Okay. We'll figure things out as they come, I guess."

Permalink Mark Unread

Nod.

Permalink Mark Unread

"Thanks for pointing that out."

Permalink Mark Unread

"You're welcome. I mean, it was substantially motivated by wondering if you thought I learned to commit murder in medical school, but you're welcome."

Permalink Mark Unread

"When people have bad options you get bad outcomes. I don't know what Earth is or was like, and I'm guessing someone desperate enough to summon a demon to abort their pregnancy would be much better off with you."

Permalink Mark Unread

"It never actually happened, angels are better for most medical applications that don't involve amputees or comatose people and that's not an exception, I just sort of took everything the school offered and didn't conceptualize it as some kind of assassin training any more than the oncology section."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I mean, you can also already kill people more ways than could possibly be necessary, the training's presumably for not harming the pregnant person?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"...right, the pregnant person is supposed to be fine."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I don't think you're a murderer." Um. "Sorry."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I have spent most of my life not a murderer."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I'm sorry, I shouldn't have phrased it like that -"

Permalink Mark Unread

"It's okay."

Permalink Mark Unread

"It is a great deal better than it'd be without you."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Sort of vindicating, all those depressing history books."

Permalink Mark Unread

"It was the right call with the information you had even if the history books all proclaimed that the next year the Valar voted to intervene. But. They don't do that. Six hundred years."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Six hundred objective years, fuck."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Yup. Findekáno does level all the servers and most of the Enemy's territory is a irradiated wasteland after the battle a couple decades past that, so he probably doesn't have his current torture capacity for six hundred objective years, but still."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Yeah."

Permalink Mark Unread

"What a nightmare."

Permalink Mark Unread

Wing-putting. (Wings: so convenient for putting.)

Permalink Mark Unread

He leans in. "I asked Maglor if we can do magic-song shortcuts but apparently they just develop over centuries of practice."

Permalink Mark Unread

"...spontaneously? That's weird."

Permalink Mark Unread

"No, there's an art to it, but you can't shortcut the centuries of practice, which is what I wanted."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Yeah, that's a pity."

Permalink Mark Unread

"There are a lot of useful ones which were for strategic reasons never committed to paper - he's got a song that makes you think faster - but we can't pull it off in only a few notes."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Sped up recordings worked though."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Yeah, true. One can think ridiculously fast, if they don't mind having an annoying buzz in the background all the time."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Would songs not work on deaf people, that would be interesting."

Permalink Mark Unread

"They work while you're asleep, so it's not conscious processing they're relying on - they don't work with headphones, so it is sound - I have no idea -"

Permalink Mark Unread

"We should try it with various volumes."

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"There's probably a long list of experiments we should run and that I'm not immediately thinking of, now that we've got someone proficient with the magic side and trustworthy."

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"Yeah. In light of my prospective job description maybe I should talk to him at some point."

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"Maybe ask him while you're at it what their Silmarils do. They seem convinced they can do anything but they're also sworn to retrieve the things..."

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"Would he be the best one to ask?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"No, but the engineers are busy. About to be busier, since they'll be missing the baby growing up while they get immortality working."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Unless the temporal thing is very generous and they finish immortality while the baby is four days old."

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"That'd be nice of it. Is there a 'request features' box around here, Bar?"

Permalink Mark Unread

Not as such, no.

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"The engineers do run faster than us on average."

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"Thaaaaaanks, landlords," Cam calls ceilingward.

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"We are very deeply and profoundly grateful! Especially now that we're apprised of how history goes without you!"

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The landlords do not reply.

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Well, no. That would at this point be surprising, honestly.

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Cam starts writing up a list of things to ask Macalaurë.

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And he composes a more formal pregnancy announcement for the research teams and sends it to Conner and Idaia for review when they have a chance (he's expecting it'll be a while).

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And it's not too long after that that Edie says to Tyelcormo, "So, I've got your ring design worked out; do you think it would be more romantic to give it to you in a traditional little box or make it on your finger?"

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"Make it on my finger," he says, and kisses her. "Please."

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She kisses back, and twines her fingers with his, and then there is something hard and smooth and cool encircling his left ring finger.

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Thank you. It's beautiful.

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You haven't even looked at it yet!

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Have too!

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Not well enough to appreciate it!

She stops kissing him and unlaced their fingers, bringing his hand to eye level.

The main body of the ring is made of two layers of smooth, unfaceted gemstone, the inner layer black and the outer layer clear. In between the two is a circle of silver stems with leaves and thorns and tiny red crystal rosebuds poking up into the clear layer at regular intervals. The centerpiece is a fully-bloomed red crystal rose that protrudes through the clear layer and out of the otherwise uninterrupted surface of the ring.

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It is more than Sufficiently Pretty. Oh, Edie.

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The gem part--everything but the silver--is lonsdaleite. Hardest gemstone known to demon. I put a lot of thought into it.

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I can tell. Thank you.

Permalink Mark Unread

You're welcome.

And now that he has properly seen his ring she can go back to kissing him. 💋

Permalink Mark Unread

Sounds good.

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She doesn't ask about hers. He will presumably acquire it from Cam when he's ready.

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Yes, it is inconvenient not being able to conjure things on the spot.

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Yeah, it's really a pity Maitimo's pretty sure he'd be a fairy if he daevafied.

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"Oh, no question."

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"I wonder why."

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"Oromë is."

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"And you think you're meaningfully similar enough despite the weirdness of kangaroo lizard psychology to use that predictively?"

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"Yeah, definitely."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Okay. It's probably meaningful that our alts are naming their firstborn child after him despite all the shit their Valar pulled."

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"They are?"

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"Artemis is a goddess of hunting from a well-known but outdated Earth mythology. No one much believes in it anymore but lots of people know and enjoy the stories."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Huh.

 

Oromë's okay. Not an Elf, not even good at trying, but good at his thing."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I have no idea if your alt's relationship to his was the same as yours; it sort of seems like to the extent that the Elves get over worshipping Magic Valar it's 'fuck the gods' not 'hey you're not gods after all' and even that's not very popular."

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"I might ask him."

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"It'll probably be good for him to think about things other than literally nothing not related to his pregnant wife in some way."

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"I mean, that's pretty typical of having kids. Even when you don't have all their issues to distract yourself from."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Fair enough. I really hope the time fuckery favors the engineers enough that they don't have to miss much of her childhood."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Yeah. I can't imagine how my dad'd feel."

Permalink Mark Unread

"If it comes down to it I'm sure Idaia wouldn't mind ending up looking older in order for the engineers to spend time with her before immortality was done."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Yeah but if it turns out to be more complicated than expected - if they give it to her and it doesn't work, or something -"

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"Well, the timefuckery has been favoring the engineers so far, and my parents were both attractive and healthy into their seventies, so."

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"It's just not something to take a chance with."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Yeah.

Well. The timefuckery has been favoring the engineers so far."

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"Yep. Might work out fine."

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"I hope so." Wingput.

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"I'm happy for them but wow, would have been a good time to wait a year."

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"Whose year?"

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"Theirs? I'm mostly thinking about their psychological health, not my poor alt-father and alt-Curvo."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I think they would have waited one of your years if they had remembered that she didn't still have magic birth control."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Yeah, I gathered that."

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"We need to either go back to making out or I need to go pester Findekano about blessings stuff, I just keep circling back to 'the timefuckery has been in the engineers' favor so far.'"

Permalink Mark Unread

He kisses her. 

Permalink Mark Unread

She suspected this would be the result of saying those words! She can go pester Findekano later.

Permalink Mark Unread

Mmmm, much later.

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Yes, that.

Eventually she does in fact go looking for Findekano.

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He is not hard to find; he's been circling between the research teams.

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"Hi, are you doing important things such that I shouldn't interrupt?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Not especially, what's up?"

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"Well, I've taught myself the basics of blessing design from materials from Bar but I'm kind of stumped for what to actually do since custom blessings are apparently a marriage tradition and I want to do something he'd like even if it wasn't from me."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Awww. Do you have a sense of the range of things blessings can do?"

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"I think so."

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"Hmm. ...magic Tyelcormos can talk to animals, I wonder if there's a way to have a blessing for that."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Uh, he already has that one."

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"And he's got all the hands-off piloting stuff we have...we're working here on immunity to mind control, but that's not really a custom project..."

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"Yeah, part of the problem is figuring out what he'd want that he doesn't already have and why he doesn't have it."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Best candidate thing would be things that wouldn't have been useful back home but will be what with our lord prince Maitimo's new projects?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Hmm, yeah."

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"What's he going to be doing in the new world order, do you know?"

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"...I don't. I mentioned that we should talk about how we were going to live after we got married and me terraforming planets came up but not much else."

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"It might help. He may also have no idea. There's a lot up in the air."

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"I suspect he has no idea but I can ask."

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"And for your part? Infrastructure sound appealing?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"It's not what I'd pick if I were only choosing based on personal preferences and not logistics but I don't object to it."

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"What's your personal preference? Eventually we'll have enough daeva you can do whatever."

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"I'm honestly not sure. Most of the things I've done in my life were shaped by circumstances no longer present. I'd like to try things out, see how they fit..."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Makes sense."

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"When I was alive I was a summoner; then I spent more than a century as a demon alternating between helpful-summons-where-possible and meaningless material luxury in Hell, now--I don't know. ...I like using daeva magic to improve peoples' lives, a lot, I really don't think I'm going to be unhappy terraforming, I just get more satisfaction out of doing it on a more--individual level."

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"Set up somewhere and grant wishes?"

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"Maybe!"

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"It seems like there'd be lots of keeping-track-of-which-dimension-you're-in stuff that'll be in-demand as blessings, but not very special to Tyelcormo..."

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"Yeah...I keep having ridiculous ideas like 'a thing that will on command produce a cartoon squid in your field of vision to gnaw on a person you designate, especially Evil Mai--I mean Midnight', but that's not very practical."

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"And who wants to be reminded of him at their wedding?"

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"Yes, exactly. I might do that at some point for fun but not for this."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I can think on it, let you know if I come up with anything."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Yeah, okay. Thanks."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Congratulations."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Thanks!"

She goes to find her fiancé again.

Permalink Mark Unread

He is outside again, listening to Maglor from a distance and working on his computer. 

Permalink Mark Unread

"So I was talking to Findekano for reasons you can probably guess and I was wondering if you had any idea what you were going to do when we got out of here while I was terraforming planets?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Explore, I guess?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Okay. Dunno if that's a helpful answer but I was banking on you having any idea, so."

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"It doesn't have to be something ridiculous."

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"If I can't come up with something good enough quickly enough I'm sure I can settle but I have to at least try."

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"Okay, fair. Yeah, I think I'll explore. See new places, wander around a lot."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Okay." She kisses him. "I can probably work with that. Or something."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I'd say sorry to be difficult but you're a demon, do you have any idea how hard it is to get you presents?"

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She giggles. "Some."

Permalink Mark Unread

 

 

"I would feel bad about making my dads miss a grandchild but I guess maybe it'd get them to take breaks."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Yeah, I don't think what they're doing is urgent on a within-Milliways scale."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Time's passing in all the other worlds. Though, I guess, not regularly, exactly..."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Yeah. Personally I'd be more concerned about your relatives who don't have forks here."

Permalink Mark Unread

"It'll be hard on them, yeah, though there are alternate universe versions of all of them present, so -"

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"I think a fork counts more than a straight alt but yeah."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I wonder how much longer it's going to be."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Which 'it'?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Being stuck here waiting for them to come up with something."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Ah. ...And we're back to 'the timefuckery has been favoring the engineers.'"

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"Yeah. Tried thinking about what that meant but it ended with me being pissed with our hosts here so I figured better to let it go."

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"Yeah." Hug. Slightly pensive wingsnuggle.

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He leans in. "Everything's going to do nothing for so long and then change so fast -"

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"Yeah. Hell of a lot better than blowing up the Earth, though."

Permalink Mark Unread

"It is that."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I wonder if our alts will keep raising their kid in Milliways if we have the ability to traverse arbitrary universes in the relevant timeframe. I mean, we probably won't, but given timefuckery who even knows."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Milliways is probably safer than most random places you could land."

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"Well, that's true, but I wasn't thinking 'random place,' I was thinking 'someone else finds somewhere nice and safe and containing more small children for Artemis to interact with and vets it to make sure it's actually safe and not like Valinor'."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Valinor wouldn't be an awful place to raise kids. Although. There's what happened in Singularity, so if that were ever likely to happen again -"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Probably it wouldn't but given that our Valinor is so far the only one that isn't horribly homophobic I wouldn't declare them adequate to raise children in as a category."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Really doubt any kid of mine would give a fuck. But I guess."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I'm not concerned that they'd--get infected, I'm concerned that if they were themselves not straight people would be shitty to them."

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"And? People are kind of shitty. Unless we raise our kids only around alts of us people will be shitty to them. I don't want them to grow up thinking people are all wise and good and kind."

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"Yeah, but--there's kinds and kinds of shitty, and growing up around people who take it for granted that a fundamental part of who you are is disgusting and wrong is a nasty one for a lot of people."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I'd still probably raise a kid in Valinor over most places. Especially if they could leave."

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"...If they could leave is a nontrivial caveat."

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"Well, yeah, walking them out of Milliways to some place and then losing the door would be terrible."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Yeah, I was just thinking about the kind of thing that tends to go down in Valinors without helpful friendly demons at the right moment."

Permalink Mark Unread

"We leave? People with young kids mostly didn't."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Yeah, sorry, that face was not so much relevant to the discussion at hand."

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Hug.

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Hug. "I love you."

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"We're so lucky."

Permalink Mark Unread

"We really are!"

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"Wasn't really planning to have kids, back in Valinor. Because."

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"Because the Valar suck?"

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"Hmm, partially? Mostly because I wasn't happy and couldn't imagine they would be."

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Snuggle. "I'm sorry you weren't happy."

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"It's - I wasn't in particular need of cuddles or anything -"

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"I didn't think you were. Cuddles is just--what I can do, right now. I can't fix it. But I can hug you. And even if cuddles wouldn't be comforting I want them."

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"Well in that case -" Kiss.

Permalink Mark Unread

Kiss! So much better than dwelling.

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Indeed!

A while later he asks Cam for a ring. He has a ring design, sapphires in a gold setting, tengwar detailing so fine that only a demon could do it around where the stones are set.

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"Congratulations," Cam says, handing him the ring in a little velvet-lined box.

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"Thanks!" And the next time he sees Edie, he can sneak it on to her hand even if he can't make it there directly.

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She startles slightly at the sudden touch of the cool metal on her skin, and then she lifts her hand to look at the ring, and then she beams and kisses him some more.

Permalink Mark Unread

Love you, dear. ...how much time's it been, for you, since we announced our engagement...

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About two and a half months. You?

Permalink Mark Unread

Four-ish. Your blessing's going to take me a while so maybe the landlords are kindly giving me that while.

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Out of all the various ways the landlords are fucking with us the timefuckery does seem to be mostly convenient.

Permalink Mark Unread

I am curious how representative of the four hundred million Ardas this batch of characters is.

Permalink Mark Unread

Probably most of them don't have visitors?

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I guess if they mostly don't have summoning, yeah.

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Well, Idaia and Imliss didn't show up by summoning.

Permalink Mark Unread

Yeah, that one's just weird. 

Permalink Mark Unread

Crazy-ass snake with a mirror for a face, yeah. What even the fuck.

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We should ask Bar about published works referencing, uh, that.

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Oh, good idea.

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Snuggles for ring-exchanging seem justified first, and then snuggles go elsewhere, but eventually they get over to the Bar and he asks "hey, do you have published works describing someone getting eaten by a snakelike thing with a mirror for a face?"

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She has some! Fiction or non-?

Permalink Mark Unread

"Non-fiction, please!"

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There's stories about people being eaten by snakey demons and presumably having their souls devoured because that is what demons do! And stories about snake monsters suddenly appearing and people disappearing into them until somebody manages to kill the snake monster!

Permalink Mark Unread

Okay. That latter is the thing of interest. Any ones written by someone claiming to have been snake monstered?

Permalink Mark Unread

Memoirs, a couple tabloid-style articles...

Permalink Mark Unread

"How old is most of this?"

Permalink Mark Unread

Various ages. Would you like to specify by recency?

Permalink Mark Unread

"Can you give me a range of possibilities?"

Permalink Mark Unread

What do you mean?

Permalink Mark Unread

 

"Are any of these older than...forty thousand years old?"

Permalink Mark Unread

Yes, but do bear in mind that time does not pass at the same rate between universes.

Permalink Mark Unread

"...How long ago was it in Kilaiuossa that Idaia and Imliss got snaked, can you tell?"

Permalink Mark Unread

Six and a half months.

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"They need to know this."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Um. Wow. Yeah, they do, though - they said everyone they cared about was already dead - uh, we could ask magic Macalaurë to call Imliss?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Yeah. Maybe they have no desire to go back and maybe they don't but they still deserve to know."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I mean. We also can't get them back there. But yeah -" Macalaurë?

Permalink Mark Unread

Yes?

Permalink Mark Unread

Can you tell Imliss it's apparently been six months in their home universe since they left it?

Permalink Mark Unread

Imliss? Your alts asked Bar how much time has passed in Kilaiuossa and - it's been six months.

Permalink Mark Unread

 

 

 

 

What.

Permalink Mark Unread

I am just the convenient osanwë-having messenger.

Permalink Mark Unread

Right. Thanks. I'm just going to. Investigate this more directly.

She comes down to the main bar area.

"What."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Six and a half months."

Permalink Mark Unread

Permalink Mark Unread

"This time fuckery stuff is weird."

Permalink Mark Unread

"It's been thirty thousand years."

Permalink Mark Unread

"We know."

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"I should talk to Maitimo. And ask him what his standards of technological development are before things become less than straightforward to assimilate."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I can ask him to come down -" Nelyo?

Permalink Mark Unread

He is snuggling his boyfriend and working on plans for portal setups. Mmmm?

Permalink Mark Unread

He summarizes. 

Permalink Mark Unread

Weird.

 

I'll come on down.

 

And to Cam - "so, Imliss and Idaia's home universe, before they spent thirty thousand years in an Arda? Six months have passed."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Wonders never cease. This have any particular implications?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"I think they are now significantly more inclined to go home, and wondering what I will do to their dimension if I run across it? Imliss asked me to come down and talk."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Do you want me to come too?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"I enjoy your company, but not if you're in the middle of something, it'll just be summarizing the magic-confined-to-locals, tech-level-eh assimilation plans..."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I'm like, forty percent in the middle of something? Either way's fine by me."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Imliss thinks she might have resurrection after a couple of centuries of practice."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Oh look at that I'm zero percent in the middle of something."

Permalink Mark Unread

Kiss. Downstairs they go. 

Permalink Mark Unread

"What's the threshold for how much technology a place can have before you can just scoop it up--I--if you were in charge you could clear our parents' names."

Permalink Mark Unread

"And you think with a couple centuries of practice you might be able to bring them back, right?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Yes. ...It might be more than a couple, I don't know for sure, but eventually."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Got the steam engine yet? Electricity? What share of the population lives in cities?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Neither of those things. Printing press yes, decent roads yes, sewers yes, ocean-worthy ships yes. I...wasn't a student of social sciences but, um, significantly less than half?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Only sapients are humans?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Yeah."

Permalink Mark Unread

"So we'd put a modern-equipment hospital modified so people who have never seen a computer before can be taught to staff it and a modern university in major population centers, lay down passenger and freight trains between them, and go tell the local leadership that wars they start will be ended, wars against them will be ended, and in exchange for this protection treaty we ask only that they not obstruct anyone, including people who have broken local laws, from leaving through a portal we set up somewhere on the rail line. Portal goes to somewhere managed by us directly."

Permalink Mark Unread

 

"Uh, not obstruct anyone as in no guards, or as in they're required to let people out of prison and escort them to the portal if they express the desire to go, because those are different things."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Latter's hard to enforce, and I'm really hoping somewhere we'll find something that'll just let me hand everyone personal teleportation devices, but in the meantime we'll probably negotiate that place by place depending what kind of prisons-and-things-people-are-imprisoned-for they have going."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Okay."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I'm hoping some people will decide they'd rather be a regional governor of the galactic empire than King of some preindustrial nation, but if not they can continue kinging their preindustrial nations. I'll pitch it more aggressively if they have unusually disinclined-to-leave-for-various-reasons populations or are unusually competent."

Permalink Mark Unread

"That makes sense. Um, also Kilaiuossa has some...ethnic tensions. That you should probably be made aware of in advance of diplomacizing."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I still don't have a way to reach the place - unless the door opens to there for you, does it? - but go ahead."

Permalink Mark Unread

"...It might, I haven't tried. So, there's this one culture, called the Bremri, that are sort of quasi-nomadic and kind of all over the place, and they're a minority pretty much everywhere, and a few hundred years ago this one really awful king decided to blame them instead of his own questionable policy choices for some problems the country was having at the time, and he was a really bad king but a really good rhetorician and there were a few really unfortunate incidents and it sort of stuck. For part of that time there was a policy of attempted forced assimilation. Bremik, the language, only stopped being illegal about a decade before Imliss and I were born."

Permalink Mark Unread

Nod.

Permalink Mark Unread

"And things are mostly better these days but there's still considerable resentment on both sides, I don't want to accuse the people who decided to blame my parents for that whole fiasco of doing it because Dad was Bremri, but--I'm not actually sure that wasn't part of it."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Stateless ethnic groups we can offer their own state, if that's likely to make them happy. If the local magic system doesn't work off-world or doesn't work for children born off-world or whatever - neither of which seem true of your world - we can install some islands."

Permalink Mark Unread

"That's not a complete solution--a lot of people aren't going to want to give up homes they've lived in their entire lives--but it should help."

Permalink Mark Unread

"The only thing I can do is give people better options, I can't make them get along."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I understand."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Anyone to go back for in particular?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Hmm? No, not unless it turns out that resurrection is significantly more feasible in the universe the person died in. ...Which is plausible."

Permalink Mark Unread

"For some kinds of resurrection I'd expect it to work that way. If you're pulling them out of a dream, maybe not - which will make your world another one with involuntary forking problems, once enough people get that advanced..."

Permalink Mark Unread

"It would definitely be more complicated than that but I wouldn't necessarily expect that to mean it didn't have the forking problem."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Well, it'll be to our advantage to have you be the first person to figure it out, then."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I should probably try to take advantage of some of the engineers' time dilation."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I don't know exactly what the story is there but it seems like if you do less interacting with people you're likelier to end up sped up."

Permalink Mark Unread

"...Problematic."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Need some social outlets? All the mes in here are going a little spare, I think, for the same reason."

Permalink Mark Unread

"How many of you are there?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Three. I don't mind that Midnight's miserable but I've certainly noticed it, and Matt'd probably be miserable either way, but..."

Permalink Mark Unread

 

"If there's anything I can do to help let me know."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Uh, describe how likely you think random people in your world are to figure out resurrection, given-knowing-it's-possible-with-local-magic and given not knowing that, and if this creates forking problems how we fix them."

Permalink Mark Unread

She gamely attempts reasonable population statistics, and"I can't really answer the forking problem question until I have a better idea of the mechanics."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Fair enough. Good skill."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Thank you."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I am flattered that your first reaction to learning your world was around in something resembling remembered form was that I should be in charge of it."

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"You're--the same as him.

...When we first arrived the Ambarussa said he could talk people out of their souls and that he then kept them somewhere cozy and sang to them. And then I met him, and I ended up staying in the palace, so we talked a lot..."

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Hug.

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Hug. Hug hug.

"It's not fair and I'm not so self-centered as to think I'd even make a list of people any of this was unfair to but once upon a time I had a friend who smiled and meant it, who was okay, and I miss him and I am never, ever getting him back."

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"And we will find every corner of the multiverse where that can happen and we will scour them of Melkors and everything else, and in a very long time we will be the only people alive who remember when there was such a thing as pointless suffering."

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"And it will still be too late for him."

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"Yep."

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"Your world got Edie and Emily and got its awful history averted and Singularity got Cam and got it's awful history averted and Ozymandias got us and we just died without saving anyone."

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"It kind of sounds like that was the fault of my family, honestly."

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"They had fate railroading them. We didn't."

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"I mean, far be it from me to deter anyone from deciding that literally all of history is their responsibility, because that would be very hypocritical. But I am pretty sure -" Sigh. "I am pretty sure Matt doesn't want anyone to care about him because he was able to drag his people along with him into the wars, and because they can't admire and trust him anymore and so he can't convince himself they care about him on his merits, and because if enough people want him alive then it stops being right to die. But if he'd get over that I think he'd be very glad of the time he had with you, and glad you get more of it."

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"I don't think literally all of history is my responsibility I just have enough negative emotions that my brain is shunting them into areas that don't make sense like guilt."

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"...look, I have mixed feelings here because I am very sure that the right thing for Matt is to let him die, but - if we find a world that's complicated, and you go there with him, and ask him to help you fix it, I am pretty sure that once it's fixed he'll ask where the next one needing help is."

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"Mhm."

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Hugs. 

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Hugs. "I should probably take the risk of interrupting Idaia and Tyelcormo to tell her about the six months thing."

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"Yeah, good idea."

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"Wish me luck. I know the Quendi thing is wishing skill but I'm far more concerned about the chance aspect of catching them outside a...delicate...moment than any kind of skill in explaining."

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"May your explanation arrive when your sister is unoccupied."

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"Thanks." She goes upstairs and knocks on the door.

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We should probably get that.

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Yeah. 

 

Clothes! Door!

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"People were interrogating Bar and it's only been six months in Kilaiuossa since we left."

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Hug.

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"...I still don't know that I wanna go back. Definitely not if there isn't a way to come back, just--there's things I remember fondly that I thought were millenia dust...if I could show you and Artemis the house I grew up in, that one river Mama used to go to for field work..."

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"That sounds nice."

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"...I wonder if our luggage is retrievable. Probably not, but..."

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"The stuff you had with when you got snaked?"

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"Yeah."

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"Does the door open there for you?"

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"...Haven't tried it."

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"Don't. But Imliss could."

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"...Why her and not me?"

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"You're pregnant and if something goes wrong and you get cut off it's more of a disaster? Not that it would be okay to lose Imliss until targeted dimensional travel is ready, but I take it you would not want to be back in that world alone with a child."

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"...Right." Her hand goes unconsciously to her stomach. "Of course."

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Hug. "I want our daughter safe."

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"Yeah." You're going to be such a great dad.

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I can at least not do any more astonishingly irresponsible things.

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I should have remembered I wasn't on any kind of birth control. For all you knew I could have been.

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You are perfect and have nothing to blame yourself for.

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And you're going to be a fantastic parent, she retorts, poking him in the chest.

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Kiss.

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Kiss! And warm snugly feelings and not thinking about escalating any farther than kiss because her mind is filled with baby baby baby.

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It is pretty adorable! Kisses are good. He has forgotten Imliss is in the room.

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Imliss has gotten used to this kind of behavior out of the two of them and has shared what she came to share. She leaves.

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They cling and kiss.

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We should probably move into a suite suitable to raise a child in at some point, she murmurs eventually.

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Yeah. Want to do that now, or wait until we're expecting her soon?

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I think if I start having any trouble moving around when I'm huge I'd rather already be familiar with my surroundings.

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Okay.

 

So they go downstairs. He carries her. 

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"Oh, hi, you two. I think, um, Circle, wanted to talk to you."

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"What about?"

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"How to tell the engineers about the baby, I think."

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"He can do whatever."

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"If he thinks it's worth talking about we might as well."

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"Okay," he says agreeably. And they go over to where Circle and Cam are working.

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"Hi, you wanted to talk to us?" she asks Circle.

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"I wrote up a pregnancy announcement for everyone here who isn't, uh, close to or an alt of the two of you and did not get the news from Tyelcormo. Tyelcormo, you should pick a nickname."

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"Been there done that in Beleriand."

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"Okay.  Do you two have a computer, I can send the announcement there..."

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"Not yet, I should ask my alt for one." By that did you mean that you want to use the same one as last time or that last time was unpleasant and you don't want to do it again?

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It was illegal to say my name for five hundred years.

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Hugs hugs hugs.

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He sends them the draft announcement.

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It is entirely satisfactory.

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So he sends it to everybody. Also, he has congratulatory gifts for them! Neither of them are demons so this was really easy!  Here are matching necklaces with a stunning round bead at the center, in which they will be able to hear the baby's heartbeat once the baby has a heartbeat, and traditional Bremri baby clothes, tiny.

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"These are amazing, how--I suppose you must have asked Bar for the clothes, but the necklaces, how..."

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"Do you mean 'how does the technology work'? It's not magic - though I imagine you could dream yourself a magic version that was superior. It's just a fetal heartrate monitor in the form of a necklace, it'll need to be within a meter of the baby to work but around your neck will work fine, and then Tyelcormo's just gets signals from yours."

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"And here I thought ultrasound was cool," she says, immediately putting on the necklace.

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"Ultrasound is so 1420s. At least where I'm from."

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"You're from space! Earth does not have reliable space travel yet! It's hardly surprising that you'd have better technology in other areas. What replaced ultrasound?"

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"Better precision, less inconvenience of the mother required - computers got smarter, so they could filter much better for noise - computers got smaller, too -"

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"Computers always get smaller," she nods. "How far along do you have to be before they can see anything?"

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"She should have a heartbeat by six weeks, and they'll pick that up."

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"Do you not have anything to replace the actual visual part of ultrasound?"

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"Oh, sorry, I thought you meant what the necklaces will do. I have no idea what the general state of the art for pregnancy is."

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"I shall have to find out."

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"You will!"

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She touches her necklace and grins and hugs him.

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Hugs. "Congratulations. I'm so thrilled for you both."

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"Thanks. I--

the timing could be better but I've wanted this for a very long time."

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"Timing's a bit of a mysterious concept in Milliways anyway."

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"True."

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"I don't have quite enough confidence in the landlords to say 'things happen when they're meant to', but certainly 'we are not very individually capable of changing the schedule things happen on'."

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"I think I could probably have waited to get pregnant until I was immortal."

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"But then we'd all have missed out on this girl."

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"...Maybe, maybe not. Granted that we have a small sample size, but Edie's and my parents had the exact same set of twins despite massively different circumstances, and of course there's several of all seven of you..."

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"Okay, true. And extremely weird - did you know, we realized a little while ago that the reason names are bizarrely prophetic in Abaddon is because they are comprehensibly-given-the-local-magic-system-which-includes-prophecy prophetic in shiny tree Ardas and then there's some force at work keeping the names the same -"

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"Edie and Idaia aren't the same but they're close..."

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"Edie and Idaia, Imliss and Emily. Bar, are there books that have been published about the phenomenon where there are alternate universe versions of people?"

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Not as such. There are books about similar phenomena within groups of worlds mutually accessible without Milliways but as it happens no one has found Milliways and subsequently published on this topic as it pertains to alts found here.

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"Can I have the books on similar phenomena?"

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Here is a stack. Nominative Determinism says the top one.

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"Thanks." Later, maybe. Another hug for Idaia. "Anyway, congratulations."

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"Again, thanks."

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"You two are down here to ask for a bigger suite?"

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"Yeah, that was the plan."

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"All right!"

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"Our room is perfectly nice for a couple but not for parents with baby and my alt will produce arbitrary counterfeit currency, so."

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"I think it's a great idea and I will leave you to it."

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"Alright." To Bar: "If I wanted a suite the size of a house, would that be a problem?"

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Not at all. How many rooms would you like?

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...She hesitates.

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Two, right?

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...Small children should be around other small children. I was going to wait to bring up the possibility of another--in like five or more years--but it could be relevant to room number.

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Kids can share a room. But we can get more rooms if you'd like.

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"Two bedrooms."

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Any other requirements?

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"...Something communal, a kitchen, at least one preferably two bathrooms..."

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Of course. A key. Room 200906.

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"...How many floors up is that?"

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It's on the second floor; take a right and it will be on your left.

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"Okay, thank you. Is there some highly convenient feature that means out stuff is already there or do we have to figure out who to ask to help us move?"

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I'm afraid your belongings are all where they were.

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"Moving it is."

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"Shouldn't be too hard."

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"She made some pretty heavy things."

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"So we have magic-Imliss wave them into air and magic-you make the same ones in the new rooms."

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"Fair enough."

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"The magic yous are convenient."

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"They are!" She admires her wedding ring.

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Kiss.

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Kissss they should go look at their new home.

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Yes! They should!

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A little while after that Edie goes looking for Findekano again.

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"Hey!"

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"Hi! I've been giving more thought to the blessings thing."

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"Have ideas?"

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"I talked to Maitimo about what he already had and a dyslexia patch that superimposed a dyslexia-friendly alphabet on any Tengwar he saw came up and I was wondering how much of a headache it would be to generalize that to other languages and scripts."

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"Something of a headache? A couple months' project, at least, but engagement blessings are allowed to take that long."

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"I'd probably want to start with just one, and...almost certainly not English."

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"No?"

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"English is an LSD clusterfuck of spelling irregularities."

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"Shouldn't matter if you have a large enough database to work with, but if there are other languages he'll want it makes sense to start with one you can do straightforwardly."

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"I'm not sure. English seems more generally useful than most of the other languages I know..."

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"Then don't worry too much about correspondence between his alphabet and the English alphabet, just have a corpus of English words with phonetic spellings."

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"Okay, thanks."

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"No problem. Do you know how to do vision overlays? There's a pretty good library for it -"

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"Show me?"

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So he shows her the standard library for vision overlays, and walks her through some really simple sample blessings and a good blessing testing environment and so forth.

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She pores over them and practices things.

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"Message me if you have questions."

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"I will."

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"And congratulations."

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"Thanks. Good skill with your projects."

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Nod.

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Programming programming programming.

Eventually she finds her fiance and suggests that they might want to check in on the engineers at some point in the nearish future.

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Mmm?

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It's been long enough since we last provided food that we should probably check if they're eating enough.

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I've got the syncing thing now, it pings me when it's been three weeks for them.

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Oh, right. That's good, then.

How often is it doing that?

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Five, six days?

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Okay, good. It did recently get a lot more important that the time fuckery favor them, is all.

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I don't know how fast Idaia and the other Tyelcormo are running.

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I...think they're experiencing less time than us.

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That'd be good.

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Yeah, definitely.

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Might be done when the kid's still three or four. How fast do half-human kids grow...

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I don't actually know. Maybe we could ask an Ozymandian.

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I'll go bug Maglor later.

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Good idea.

 I'm not really sure how Elf kids age compared to human kids.

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We're of age at fifty, fully grown at a hundred. But that's Valian years.

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Huh. That seems...potentially frustrating.

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Hmm?

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Oh, I'm probably being silly. I Just don't think I would have rather taken a thousand years to grow up.

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I guess everyone prefers what they're used to? Now it feels like wasted time, but if there hadn't happened to be an emergency...

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Yeah, agreed. Some species that grows faster than humans might well have the same attitude about decades.

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When you think you have forever there's no hurry.

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Yeah.

At least there's Milliways

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Yeah.

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Convenient time fuckery for the win

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It's worked out really nicely, hasn't it?

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Yeah. Fingers crossed it keeps doing that. Snuggle.

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I don't like just counting on things to work out, but I guess we can always have everyone in the same place if they stop doing that.

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Yeah, there's stuff we can do, just--better for everyone if we don't have to.

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If Idaia just keeps running slow - but not so slow that we're ready to go fight some wars by the time the baby's born -

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That bit would be bad, yes.

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I don't think it's likely. Engineers thought it was a hard problem.

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Mhm. We'll take these things as they go, I suppose.

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Yeah. Kiss.

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Kiss. Love you.

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The engineers continue running substantially faster than he is.

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And they can continue doing blessing design, and socializing with the giant squid, and watching movies, and cuddling.

"Oh, I just thought of an Earth movie you should definitely see," she says at one point.

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"Oh?"

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"It's called Doctor Doolittle and it's about a man who talks to animals."

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"Yeah, okay."

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It's a good movie. The good doctor strongly prefers animals to people, and encounters a variety of fantastic beasts like the pushmi-pullyu, a double-ended llama, and a giant sea snail and a moth that really shouldn't exist as that size of arthropod in an atmosphere without a lot more oxygen.

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He will forgive the biological implausibilities!

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It's also slightly sexist, being set in Victorian England. The love interest has a song about all the violence she'd commit if she were male.

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Well, the Elves didn't have that one figured out before they got to electricity either.

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The violence song is actually kind of excellent aside from the sexism.

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They can sing along.

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She giggles, and sings, and kisses him on the cheek and thinks fond thoughts about Elves and singing.

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Elves are good at singing! Normal and magic Elves seem equally good at singing, accounting for the fact the magic ones have got a Macalaurë.

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Elves are very good at singing, it's lovely.

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They drag the engineers out for breaks. It's three weeks in a single hour for him, once. A concert, a dance, some movie nights, some outdoor sports.

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Wings make ground-based dancing less convenient, and aerial dances are mostly designed around both partners being able to fly, but they're both clever people and can surely improvise.

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I'm not an entertainer, he grumbles after the engineers have shuffled off again. I miss my mother.

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I wanted to dance with you to dance with you, dear, not just to entertain the others.

Why now in particular? Missing an absent parent makes perfect sense but in this case it did seem contextual.

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She was good at nudging my father into taking care of himself. Better at it than I am. 

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I look forward to meeting her when this is all over.

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I hope that works out.

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I like to be optimistic.

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Yeah, I just mean that she and my dad have been separated for Years.

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Oh. 

I'm sorry to hear that.

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I'm surprised it hadn't come up already, actually.

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Well, Maitimo did mention she stayed behind on Valinor.

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Yeah.

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He said she did it because she thought you were all going to get killed and someone ought to stay behind to convince the Valar to bring you back.

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He kinda has a charitable gloss on everything.

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Well, I would too, for my mother.

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Yeah.

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Hugs.

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Hugs.

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Time passes more slowly for Idaia and her husband, but it does pass. 

Eventually the necklaces pick up a faint heartbeat.

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This is pretty thrilling.

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For several moments after this starts, Idaia is all but frozen. The issue of her own motherhood is blindingly, overwhelmingly less abstract. Artemis, oh my little girl, oh my baby, I love you so much...

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Hugs. Lots of hugs.

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I can't wait until I can feel her moving.

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When's that, do you know?

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Still months away, I think.

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Be glad hybrid kids don't grow like Elves.

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I wouldn't mind having her be little longer.

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We could find a Valinor, slow it down by a factor of ten...

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Having more of her childhood to enjoy would not be with putting us at the mercy of a local set of Valar.

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They can't all be the same. And before Melkor gets paroled Valinor's perfectly safe.

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Still don't wanna raise a kid there.

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We were going to. Before. 

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Yes, but that was before shit went down and I became scared and/or angry towards them.

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Ah, whereas I already was.

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I love you.

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Love you. We're going to do okay at all this.

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She listens to the heartbeat some more. Our baby. I wonder what she'll look like...

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Half-human kids are all really pretty. Though most of them were descended from fucking Lúthien, that might confound it.

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You're at least as pretty as her.

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You never met her, dear.

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Don't have to. You're the most beautiful creature ever.

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Think our daughter's gonna steal that title.

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Probably, yeah. She imagines holding a wriggly golden-haired infant with his arms around the both of them.

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Maybe she'll look like you!

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Maybe! The baby's hair changes from blonde to brown in her mind's eye.

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Won't be blonde anyway, not from birth, I told mine to grow in that way because I liked it.

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Really?

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Yeah! Notice my distinct lack of blond parents and grandparents? There's no Vanya blood in the family.

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Blond's recessive, I didn't think too hard about it. Why did you want to look like a Vanya?

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Hadn't met any. Later was too stubborn to change my hair color just because of them.

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Of course you were. She kisses him. So was your hair red or black, before?

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Black, I'd have let it be if it was red. 

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It's strange, imagining you with black hair.

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Doesn't suit me. 

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It doesn't! But she can imagine their baby with black hair.

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You're adorable.

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Baby.

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Yes, yes, also very singleminded.

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We just started being able to hear our daughter's heartbeat! I think I have a right to be!

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You have the right to be absolutely anything you want.

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We have a baaaaaby.

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He hugs his wife.

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Her hands curl over her abdomen, clutching at the fabric that covers it. I love you. I love her.

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Love you too.

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We should go down at some point and look up a timeline of important pregnancy milestones.

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Yeah, probably.

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Not right now, though. Now I just want you to hold us.

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Can do.

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I love you so much. You are so good to me.

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I love you too. We'll be okay. We'll do okay.

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We'll do great.

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 We will.

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I know.

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Kiss.

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Oh, good idea.

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Love you so much. She tugs her necklace off and lays it carefully aside. There are times at which one does not want to think of one's child too much.

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Actually among Elves it is a literal biological necessity - or at least that's what he'd always heard - lots of sex during pregnancy makes for healthier children...

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Weird. Well, whether or not it applies to hybrid children this is one need she's more than happy to fulfill.

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Love you.

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Love you. Want you. Always.

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"So", he says to Cam, "I've been thinking about pacing. It should take, hmm, ten summoners and their assorted daeva and a hundred people who can teach new medical and engineering tech to fix up a preindustrial world, probably one in ten of those is complicated enough to require personal attention of someone competent I trust? If no one wants to work and I've just got the people I've currently got, I can fix up eighteen thousand worlds at a time."

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"The ones that are complicated enough to require the personal attention of someone competent you trust might be complicated enough to draw other resources."

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"Yep. It might be worth just doing worlds that aren't complicated, honestly, it's not like we'll run out..."

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"Possibly, yeah. Maybe with particularly force-multipliery complicated worlds being an exception."

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"Yep. So - fifteen thousand simple worlds and some ones that get extra attention, though I don't know if it's unwise to move that fast just on some general principle, even if we can do it..."

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"It probably isn't, in case baseline complication is greater than you expect."

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"Or in case we run into something we can't handle which has interdimensional transit and can go fuck up everywhere we've granted it accidental access to. I don't know what appropriate caution looks like compared to just excessive conservativism."

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"Yeah, tricky. I suppose to ward off the class of things that can travel but only to places they know about, and things that can travel but only by co-opting our portals, you can operate under strict infosec and have a way to shut the portals down..."

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"And do all the portals to new worlds from an empty dimension - or a Limbo really far from its inhabited parts if we can't find empty dimensions -and lightyears apart from each other, until a world has been cleared as not containing things in that class."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Oh, good idea."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Magic version of my father ask you about rings of power yet? He said he was going to work on it after immortality but I don't know if he went for the notes sooner than that."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Hasn't come up, might be he asked Edie."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Apparently my nephew Tyelpe invents something that - well, the lesser ones are merely very nifty and the greatest one makes the bearer effectively a magic Vala. Except for the difficulty of killing them. This is less thrilling than it sounds because Vala magic is slow and tedious, but - there's still a lot to say for it. And one thing magic Valar can do is shut down other kinds of magic. In theory with a ring a person can make all unfamiliar magic not work within ten, twenty miles of them. If my father can reconstruct them it'll be much safer to go greet new worlds."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I'm familiar with the 'shutting down magic' feature. If it's sufficiently broad-spectrum, yeah, good thing to have in the collection of things."

Permalink Mark Unread

"We don't have the Tyelpe or, I think, any way to go fetch him. No one knows where the Valinor in Ozymandias is anymore."

Permalink Mark Unread

"And a forkable Space one even if we presumed they'd want to be forked wouldn't have the magic expertise... inconvenient."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Mirror has one but we're assuming non-me people from Mirror might still be evil."

Permalink Mark Unread

Nod.

Permalink Mark Unread

"You don't get anywhere by conjuring up models of Ozymandias's Valinor, do you?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Fails presumably on account of magic."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Scale models of people in it, does that work?"

Permalink Mark Unread

Tries it - "Goes."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Thirty thousand years, I don't even know who to check for."

Permalink Mark Unread

Matt is reading a newspaper at the Bar again. "If Cam has time to waste conjuring things out of sheer curiosity, I am curious if my cousin is all right."

Permalink Mark Unread

Tiny basement dweller magic Ozymandian Findekáno?

Permalink Mark Unread

Exists. 'all right' is hard to evaluate.

Permalink Mark Unread

"Alive, at any rate, hard to get fine detail."

Permalink Mark Unread

Pause. "Can you check if he has a family -"

Permalink Mark Unread

"...can you be more specific?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"It has been thirty thousand years and it would be very reassuring to know that he found someone without any mass murders on their record and is settled down being bored in Valinor because Valinor does not have any problems worth his attention."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I don't actually know if I can conjure by marriage, even magic soul marriage. I can check to see if he has kids, that should be more straightforward -" Check. "- no kids. Not getting anything for a spouse either but that could be a false negative."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Do you get anything for a spouse for my father?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"- no, so apparently it's not direct enough a designation."

Permalink Mark Unread

He relaxes slightly.

 

"My father's wedding rings?"

Permalink Mark Unread

Those he can produce. Ooh pretty.

Permalink Mark Unread

Permalink Mark Unread

"- looks like he's not married or the rings tradition has evaporated in the last thirty thousand years."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Wedding rings made in Valinor in the last year - I'm sorry, you can stop entertaining me any time, I'm just not going to give up because of technical hurdles -"

Permalink Mark Unread

"All the time in the world." Wedding rings start appearing; he aborts the conjuration before there are more than a dozen.

Permalink Mark Unread

 

 

"Thank you."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Doesn't your Arda not even permit gay marriages?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Of course not, but he'd be straight now, he died, Mandos would've fixed him."

Permalink Mark Unread

Yeugh.

Permalink Mark Unread

"Well, that's delightfully fucked up - you also -"

Permalink Mark Unread

"I disassociate whenever anyone touches me or looks at me the wrong way so I'm actually not sure."

Permalink Mark Unread

Why do Valar suck so much.

Permalink Mark Unread

Yeah he'd kind of favor feeding them to black holes if not for the. Collateral damage. "I can ask my cousin if he thinks under the circumstances he'd -"

Permalink Mark Unread

"I don't think it's very straightforward to predict what you'd do in thirty thousand years."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Yeah, probably not." Sigh. "Does Tyelperinquar have children, are there more Fëanorians running around -"

Permalink Mark Unread

Check -

Permalink Mark Unread

Nope.

Permalink Mark Unread

"Nope."

Permalink Mark Unread

He turns back to his newspaper. "Thanks, Cam."

Permalink Mark Unread

"You're welcome."

Permalink Mark Unread

He does not message his cousin to ask if Findekáno expects he'd get over him if Maitimo committed several mass murders and then was dead for thirty thousand years because if the answer is 'no' he is pretty sure he prefers not to know it. 

 

They go back to discussing pacing and safe empire expansion.

Permalink Mark Unread

What a pleasantly distracting topic.

Permalink Mark Unread

Yes. That.

Permalink Mark Unread

Possibly also distracting: the door bursting open to admit what appears to be a third of the kind of person Edie and Idaia both are, half dragging, half carrying her sister, who appears to be unconscious and bleeding from the skull. She looks around desperately, then dives under a table. At the same time, a soundless voice rings in his head.

Run! Hide! There's a FUCKING SENTINEL right behind me!

And then a giant humanoid figure made of metal stoops through the door, reaching for her.

Permalink Mark Unread

An exasperated-looking Nechar teleports into the main bar. The Sentinel ceases to Sentinel. He glances at Emily and patches her up. The door slams.

Permalink Mark Unread

 

"...What...?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Welcome to Milliways. It is an extremely magic neutral zone and nothing can hurt you here. Also, there are parallel dimensions and people from other ones can meet and mingle here. Did you just telepathy at me and if so what kind of telepathy, there are several and Cam'll want to leave if yours is 'I straight-up read minds' or something."

Permalink Mark Unread

"... I can but I don't have to and I'm not? I'm a telepath. A mutant telepath."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Your world called Earth? What's the year?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"...Yes. 1983."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Huh. Okay. Cam's Earth it's 2160 or so - worlds pass at different speeds, it is possible a millenium just passed there, but it was, last we checked - Abaddon's is 2135, Matt's is 2005. Earths are a recurring theme, apparently."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Did those worlds get overrun by Sentinels or did someone stop them?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"We seem to have not had any Sentinels in the first place."

Permalink Mark Unread

"...What are you?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"I am an Elf, but most people on my Earth are humans."

Permalink Mark Unread

"And you two are..." she looks uncertainly between him and Circle.

Permalink Mark Unread

"Alternate universe versions of the same person. We've got two of you already, too. No, we do not know how that works or why it happens."

Permalink Mark Unread

"If you have two of me why were you confused about my telepathy?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Alternate universe versions of a person do not have the same magic. Edie is a demon and Idaia is a dreamshaper and neither of them have telepathy."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Edie grabbed chip osanwë as soon as she heard about it."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I have no idea what you're talking about. They...have different mutations than I do?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Different worlds run on different physics."

Permalink Mark Unread

 

 

 

"I think the operative science is biology, not physics, but...you're saying that if your worlds have mutants you don't know about it?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"What is a mutant?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"A mutant is...a person with the X-Gene? And it does weird things to their biology?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Can you give me a more - instrumentally oriented overview? What are the sort of things that mutants can do, what are some things that mutants definitely cannot do, what share of the population are mutants, is it inherited or voluntary or apparently random..."

Permalink Mark Unread

"If there are things that mutants definitely can't do we never had time to discover them--things the X-Gene can cause include  telepathy and control of magnetism and blue skin and shapeshifting and being covered in red fur and teleporting and firing plasma beams and telekinesis and being indestructible and weather control and white hair and green hair and green skin and blue hair and prehensile feet and turning into a diamond and--and--" and she breaks down crying.

Permalink Mark Unread

Edie? 

Permalink Mark Unread

Yeah?

Permalink Mark Unread

Found an alt of you, come say hi.

Permalink Mark Unread

Oh, cool. On my way.

"A new alt of me showed up," she tells her fiancé.

Permalink Mark Unread

"Oooh. With a me, or with a twin, or solo?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"...Maitimo didn't say. It'd be really weird if she didn't have a twin, although I grant she wouldn't have to have her with her."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Want me to come for saying hi or will that just add complications when she's already adjusting to Milliways?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"It should be fine."

Permalink Mark Unread

So he joins her.

Permalink Mark Unread

And downstairs he says to the crying Edie-alt, "Bar can recommend drinks."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Mkay.

I don't know if any of the people whose abilities I was listing are alive. If any are it's not many."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I'm sorry. We're going to find a world with resurrection powers eventually, you can always stay here 'till then."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Oh, I'm not going back through that door. Not until I can be confident it's not suicide."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I mean, that we could fix for you much faster, I bet Edie'd fork a few more of Ada and Amelia for you and they could probably go take over your world pretty fast - demons and angels have really scary powers, an angel could just turn all the Sentinels into air..."

Permalink Mark Unread

"...If they're not mutants that could work."

Permalink Mark Unread

"You're the first world with mutants. But stick around a while anyway, one of your alts is getting married, I'm taking over the world, etcetera etcetera."

Permalink Mark Unread

 

"Married? To whom?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"My little brother. There's another set of 'em who are already married - and expecting, actually -"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Oh. That's--

I'm really happy for them."

Permalink Mark Unread

"You have as long as you need. Ask Bar for a drink, we'll figure out how to fix your world."

Permalink Mark Unread

She approaches the bar. It's a person, which is weird, but not as weird as the fact that she's alive right now, so. Hi?

Permalink Mark Unread

Hello. Would you like my recommendation or something in particular?

Permalink Mark Unread

Recommendation, please.

Permalink Mark Unread

Here's a hot thick sweet thing that looks like it would turn into a cake if put in an oven, so dark brown it looks almost black, smelling like chocolate and chili and cinnamon and rum.

Permalink Mark Unread

She sips it carefully, her eyes half-lidded in pleasure. Ohh this is good. I haven't tasted anything this good since--in at least eight years.

Permalink Mark Unread

I'm so glad you like it.

Permalink Mark Unread

Emily finally gets up off the floor and heads for the bar. "What would you recommend for me?"

Permalink Mark Unread

How about this fruity thing? It has an umbrella.

Permalink Mark Unread

It is a lovely fruity thing. "Thank you," she says fervently.

Permalink Mark Unread

You're quite welcome.

Permalink Mark Unread

"So," she says, turning to the Elves. "Do have a counterfactual love interest?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Not as far as we know."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Pity. So what's hers like?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"I'm sure he'll come introduce himself in a minute. He's a summoner but mostly in the 'hey, I'm going to fuck off to somewhere uninhabited for several months, I could purchase and pack enough food and supplies or I could make eyes at a pretty demon' sense, he can talk to animals, he has a giant hivemind-alien-that-looks-like-a-dog best friend, he's mostly into people who can take him in a fight..."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I have no idea what you mean by summoner but that sounds really cool, congratulations Edie."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Thanks, I think."

Permalink Mark Unread

"So my world's native magic - it varies by world, as I said - is that you can draw circles in the ground and get daeva - demons, angels, fairies. A summoner is a person who does this - it takes some doing to not get people killed, so it's something of an expertise. Tyelcormo doesn't spend much time on our home planet, and there have been some other ones identified that are livable for us, so he'll head over to one of those, summon a daeva under lighter restrictions than are legal back home, and go adventuring."

Permalink Mark Unread

"That sounds nice."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Yep. Then a rogue demon who exists in several worlds so far and is super evil in all of them set up shop and started torturing people, so we were off to try to stop him when we found this place."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Makes sense."

And it is at this point that her alt and her alt's fiancé make it through the door.

The new Edie turns to them in shock. "You're a baseliner."

"No, I'm a demon."

"You're me but you're not a mutant--this is the weirdest thing I've ever felt."

Permalink Mark Unread

"...you said you were not reading minds?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"I'm not reading the contents of anyone's mind but different kinds of mind feel different."

Permalink Mark Unread

"...okay. I think I will go ask Nechar for a ward anyway just in case someone less polite walks in, I don't know if that counts as violence in the bar..." He heads for the security office.

Permalink Mark Unread

"Who's Nechar?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Guy who evaporated your killer robot and healed your sister before he teleported away probably muttering about how much work we are."

Permalink Mark Unread

"You're the fiancé?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Yep! The married ones come out of their room, like, once every two weeks to request two weeks more food."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Huh."

Permalink Mark Unread

"They were separated for thirty thousand years and it kinda fucked them up. So what's your story?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"We belong to a recently-discovered minority with powers and eight years ago when we were twelve a rogue faction in the American government unleashed genocidal murderbots on us. They got our parents when we were fifteen and we've been on our own on the run ever since."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Wow. Well, fuck that. We can't do resurrections except of my kind of Elf, yet, but we're gonna figure it out and no time'll pass until then."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Mhm."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Hug?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"...Yes please."

Permalink Mark Unread

Hug.

Permalink Mark Unread

Yeah she's just gonna start crying again.

Permalink Mark Unread

Reasonable.

Permalink Mark Unread

"I can see why she likes you," she says a while later when the tears have run dry.

Permalink Mark Unread

"Huggable?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"And your response to the Sentinels was 'fuck that.'"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Well, if there's more complexity to it than 'genocide robots' by all means fill me in, but genocide robots sounds super 'fuck that'."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Yeah, but like--most people would have pitied me."

Permalink Mark Unread

"As far as I can tell most of the multiverse is kind of shit. It's okay, my brother's gonna take over and take good care of all of it."

Permalink Mark Unread

Hugs. "I hope so."

Permalink Mark Unread

Hugs. "Just get to know him, then you won't have to worry at all."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Why, what's he like?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Nelyo, why am I vouching for you."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Edies demonstrably like you better, dear."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I think that's like ninety percent that you would have no idea what to do in bed with a girl."

Permalink Mark Unread

"...seventy percent."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I'm not going to sleep with him."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I'm sorry, I'm really just teasing my brother. I like both my soon-to-be-sister-in-law and my alternate universe sister-in-law splendidly and I trusted my Edie very shortly after meeting her - and was correct, she had fantastic instincts for the situation at hand - but it's astonishing how well she and he hit it off. In two very different situations, too."

Permalink Mark Unread

"What's the other one like?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"The other you? Her parents died in a tragic mess that was blamed on them, and they were wandering when they got sent somehow to a magic tree Arda, which are these utterly bizarre worlds that are like mine except yet to invent the printing press."

Permalink Mark Unread

"...Weird."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Yes. So she met Tyelcormo in the wilderness, and he adored her, and she - needed that, and shiny tree Elf marriage comes with a magical soul bond, and long story short - though I guess it definitionally couldn't have been a very long story - they got married a week after meeting and spent the next several decades exploring the countryside and being in love, while Imliss -" he nods at Emily - "invented the printing press for them."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I think my alt wins."

Permalink Mark Unread

"It's not a contest."

Permalink Mark Unread

"You're just saying that 'cause you'd lose."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Am not."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Anyway, then horrible things happened and they died, but they inexplicably got reincarnated and now Tyelcormo and Idaia are making up for lost time and Imliss, finding herself somewhere the printing press has already been invented, is working on getting better with dreamshaping because she's hopeful you can eventually do reincarnation with it."

Permalink Mark Unread

"And they're going to have a baby?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"They are! I can't tell you when because Milliways does time very strangely, but they are expecting a daughter. There's an announcement - Edie here can hook you up with computers and then you can read all the group messages and so on..."

Permalink Mark Unread

This is going to result in a slight digression as the concept of computers small and convenient enough for casual personal use is explained to them.

Permalink Mark Unread

Understandable.

Permalink Mark Unread

"Is this thing going to get damaged if I poke it with magnetism?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Nope."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Awesome."

Permalink Mark Unread

And the rest of a summary of the worlds and their occupants and please-don't-murder-my-evil-rapist-alt-I-know-it's-tempting-but-we-don't-have-a-good-solution-there.

Permalink Mark Unread

The twins assure him that after growing up for eight years in an apocalyptic wasteland just being a rapist is not enough for it to be difficult for them not to kill him.

Permalink Mark Unread

That is a not very reassuring reassurance but okay. And there's an account of the war in Singularity on your computers, if you have questions about it you can take them to your alts or to me, do not bother Cam, please.

Permalink Mark Unread

Yeah okay.  

...Wow, they were not fucking around when they said Morgoths were evil.

Permalink Mark Unread

They really weren't.

Permalink Mark Unread

Would they like to see if Edie's powers bypass daeva indestructibility, because if so she can probably do for daeva Morgoth.

Permalink Mark Unread

If her alt's okay with that lots of people'd be interested in the results of that test.

Permalink Mark Unread

"Sure, as long as you've got something relatively harmless to test it with."

"I could transplant a language into your head?"

Permalink Mark Unread

Oooh, cool. 

He does not comment.

Permalink Mark Unread

"You can do that? Maitimo, how delighted are your dads going to be."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Deliriously so. I'm worried that anything'll work if you're letting her, same way I could pull off your wings if you decided to let me do that."

Permalink Mark Unread

"...Yes, the plan is to not let her."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Okay." And does that work?

Permalink Mark Unread

It does not. "Dammit."

Permalink Mark Unread

"My fathers think that - well, they think it'd be four hundred years, but we have four hundred years - they might be able to create pocket dimensions. Small ones. Shutting a daeva in a pocket dimension the size of them is incredibly horrible but if we don't have a way to kill them it's something."

Permalink Mark Unread

"It's less horrible than uploading someone and torturing them for years per second," the demon one says. Her alt nods.

Permalink Mark Unread

"And under circumstances less extreme than Melkor we can tell an offending daeva that either they agree to be summoned under a binding or they get pocket-dimensioned. And we can give fairies and angels comfy pocket dimensions, it's just demons who can't have enough space to conjure a means of dimensional travel."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Yeah. ... I'm half tempted to nickname myself Atriama just to mess with Cam," the demon says.

Permalink Mark Unread

"That would be mean. Surely there are other demonic operas that come highly recommended?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"I'm not actually going to do it. If I were going that route I'd go with Earth media."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Well, the new Edie has an Earth and doesn't have a Hell."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Yeah but it's 1983 there, I just have to pick something that came out after that."

Permalink Mark Unread

"True!"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Tempted as I am by 'Emma,' that came out in the sixties..."

"Emma?"

"Dr. Doolittle's love interest."

Mutant Edie giggles.

Permalink Mark Unread

"Ooh, I like the idea of matching ones."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I'll be Emma and you can be Dolittle, then, even if it didn't match my original search criteria." She kisses him.

Permalink Mark Unread

"If you don't like those ones I'm sure we can come up with other matched pairs."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I like 'em fine."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Okay." And to the new Edie and Emily, "you have to pick too, only fair."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I will be Lodestar."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Cool."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I'm sort of drawing a blank. Or, rather, an'all the options flitting through my head are terrible.'"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Well, doesn't have to be today. How about your Earth? Sentinel, or is that too depressing?"

Permalink Mark Unread

 

"That would be like calling you Morgoth because your world had one. Smaller scale, I suppose, but same principle. I do not want to be called the thing that murdered my parents and has been hunting my people to extinction."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Your Earth, not you."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Okay, would you want your world to be called Morgoth?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"If it were the only one? Yeah, I think so. We call Singularity Singularity. But if it bothers you we can definitely come up with something else."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Yes. Let's name it after mutants, that's a much better idea. I suppose 'mutatis mutandes' is a bit of a mouthful."

Permalink Mark Unread

"A bit."

Permalink Mark Unread

"...Genesis. Anyway, if you were the only one with a Morgoth wouldn't you also be the only one with Elves, why would you pick naming your world after the scourge of your people instead of after your people."

Permalink Mark Unread

"If we were the only ones with Elves or Morgoth, sure. You can ask Bar if there are other Earths with mutants if you want to know, but Genesis is perfectly nice as a name."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Sorry, I just--sorry." Her hands shake.

Permalink Mark Unread

"It's okay. We've all been insulated from our worlds' horribleness a while longer."

Permalink Mark Unread

The shaking spreads. Lodestar hugs her.

Permalink Mark Unread

"These two should probably take a year of decompression time or something, Bar, can you get them rooms?"

Permalink Mark Unread

Certainly. Bar provides keys and room numbers.

Permalink Mark Unread

"No. Not separate rooms."

Permalink Mark Unread

The keys are replaced with a single key to a different room.

Permalink Mark Unread

"Thank you. ... I can't sleep if she's not standing watch."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I'm not sure more being alone is the best way to decompress."

Permalink Mark Unread

"You can also hang out down here if you want, but you look exhausted."

Permalink Mark Unread

"There's a couch."

Permalink Mark Unread

He shrugs and does not comment further.

Permalink Mark Unread

"...Don't think I'll be able to fall asleep for a while. Survival instincts."

Permalink Mark Unread

It is not like she has to justify it to him. 

Permalink Mark Unread

This is her first social interaction with zero stakes that she's had with someone not her twin in half a decade, she's rusty on stuff like that.

Permalink Mark Unread

He would offer another hug but a minute ago she was trembling extremely violently.

 

Huan offers the hug instead.

Permalink Mark Unread

She hugs him. You're the alien swarm dog?

Permalink Mark Unread

Huan does not respond to this but does nuzzle her.

Permalink Mark Unread

This is acceptable. His mind is weird and nifty and he is soft and furry.

Permalink Mark Unread

Yep. Very soft and furry.

Permalink Mark Unread

And now she's going to remember the last time Dr. McCoy hugged her and start crying again.

Permalink Mark Unread

That's okay.

Permalink Mark Unread

Good, because it's probably going to happen a lot in the future.

After a little while she does let go and go curl up on the couch by the fire and try to sleep.

Permalink Mark Unread

Well, everyone else present except Cam can carry on conversation over thought-speech so they don't interrupt her.

Permalink Mark Unread

Emma conjures documents concerning the Sentinel project and makes angry noises under her breath.

Permalink Mark Unread

Can we fix it now or should we leave it paused for later?

Permalink Mark Unread

...We should definitely at least have a plan first, and I should do some more reading...worst-case it waits until Maitimo's ready to start administering an empire, this was a government project...not billed as genocidal murderbots but I'm not sure there's much left of the non-evil parts of the government.

Permalink Mark Unread

I mean, it can be empire subject number one, now or later...

Permalink Mark Unread

And we should maybe show the plans for these things to your dads in case they have sneaky nasty surprises that Emily'll trigger if she starts rarifying them naively.

Permalink Mark Unread

Yeah, makes sense. ...why can't the metal-controlling one handle them?

Permalink Mark Unread

If I'm reading these things right they're nastily specialized to fight mutants and crazy adaptable. It would surprise me if she never could but not as much as if she reliably could.

Permalink Mark Unread

Well, if needed we go in with a thousand angels.

Permalink Mark Unread

 

I think that would probably necessitate waiting. Emily won't want to fork that many times if there's a reasonable alternative and summoning may not work there and it's really not worth interrupting the Abbadon time-stop.

Permalink Mark Unread

I'm thinking the Singularity time-stop, not the Abaddon one.

Permalink Mark Unread

True. Although, hm, might be better to wait 'till we've got resurrection working..,

Permalink Mark Unread

If we get resurrection working, yeah.

Permalink Mark Unread

Yeah. Hugs. So glad my world has the daeva planes and Limbo.

Permalink Mark Unread

Did you check that theirs doesn't have some kind of afterlife -

Permalink Mark Unread

Yeah, it doesn't.

Permalink Mark Unread

Figures.

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Yeah.

We should probably consult Lodestar on plans concerning her world.

Permalink Mark Unread

Yeah, when we have them.

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Mhm. Genesis is depressing and she would like affianced cuddles.

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He can do that.

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I love you so much.

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I hope your alt's gonna be okay. Seems a bit like we're getting steadily more traumatized versions of people.

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That is a valid observation and also worries me.

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Landlords, fucking with us, etcetera etcetera.

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Etcetera. I suppose it's for the best; they'd exist anyway and then we wouldn't be able to help them.

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Assuming that's how it works, yeah. Rather than realities - branching, or being invented...

Permalink Mark Unread

I'm going to assume it's my idea until evidence can be obtained for mental health reasons.

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Very reasonable.

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I'm very reasonable. Managing that simultaneous with daevahood is one of the reasons you like me so much.

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I'll just not mention it to the gloomy alts.

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Good idea.

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We should tell the happy expecting ones, though.

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That it's possible there are unhappy ones branching off from when he opened that door?

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Nah, just, like, anything at all. I don't think anyone did.

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Oh, about the new alts and their own special brand of awful world.

Permalink Mark Unread

Yep. At least 'more traumatizing for the people in it' doesn't actually mean 'objectively more awful', if the worlds were getting steadily more awful I don't know what I'd do.

Permalink Mark Unread

Hug me and be really upset?

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I mean, we'd have to try to figure out if us being here was somehow causing worlds instead of finding them, we'd have to -

Permalink Mark Unread

Yeah.

'Hug me and be really upset' wasn't intended to be, like, comprehensive.

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Oh, good.

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Maybe we could use Bar to determine the answer.

Permalink Mark Unread

"Bar, for every person who has come into Milliways and had their world's trajectory significantly changed, are there corresponding published works from a world where they never found Milliways?"

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Not in all cases, no.

Permalink Mark Unread

"So, sometimes? How many - no, that never works - guess it might work if it's constrained to patrons - what percentage -"

Permalink Mark Unread

Of cases where I can remember clearly enough to be sure that they were in fact here perhaps thirty percent have what seems to otherwise be a corresponding alternate instance.

Permalink Mark Unread

"So getting doors doesn't automatically or near-automatically branch your universe, that's something."

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I vote that if it had been otherwise or we learn similar information in the future we don't tell Matt until we have an idea of what to do about it.

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He's not going to suicide impulsively, you know. But maybe still better to come up with a plan first.

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I don't think he'd immediately kill himself but it would probably be bad for him.

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Yeah, could be.

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Ugh. Why do things have to keep being terrible. They should stop that.

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I'm sure there are some worlds where everything is lovely and nice.

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It would be nice if they would show up! Ideally with Morgoth-killing powers.

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You don't say!

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Fucking landlords. Except, I mean, it's super great that we found this place--they're sort of bipolar in terms of usefulness, I guess.

Permalink Mark Unread

NIce worlds wouldn't necessarily be ones with god-killing powers anyway.

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Go ahead, spoil my snit with your logic.

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I hate the landlords too, but not for that in particular, more for - coulda showed up six months earlier in Singularity, or before Ozymandias's Maitimo got tortured...

Permalink Mark Unread

I see your point, but it feels...I dunno, hating someone for not doing the better than the good they did seems...disincentivizing.

But, on the other hand, Ozymandias Maitimo.

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The Valar mostly - our set excepted - don't do anything, just sit around and let bad things happen. I don't feel at all bad about hating them for it. The landlords are more powerful than them, are risking less...

Permalink Mark Unread

Yeah, but they also are working of a different scale--there's a difference between looking at one giant problem and going "hmm I'm not gonna fix that" and looking at all of the problems everywhere in the whole multiverse and going "If I try to fix all of this I am going to burn out and die." I'm not saying that's the landlords' mindset but it could be.

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And they have the right to feel that way but the cost of that is that everyone'll be justifiably pissed at them.

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I guess.

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And it's not like anyone was demanding they handle it personally. Just putting Maitimo in here with someone with interdimensional transit would do it, any time.

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Yeah. Hug. I love you.

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Love you too.

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I'm glad I'm marrying you. I'm glad our alts are expecting a baby with eager anticipation. I'm glad there's--bright things, here, not just, oh, here's another world where things suck to one degree or another...

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Yeah, that part's nice.

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Slightly depressed clinging!

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Yep.

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We really should tell the others about this, she says eventually.

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Maitimo? Want to tell my magic alt there's a new Edie and Emily in town?

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Okay. 

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And a minute later - sweetheart?

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Yeah?

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'Nother set of you and Imliss walked in. Their world is, surprise, horrible and they are traumatized.

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Ah.

Snuggle.

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Yeah.

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We should probably meet them, especially if there's anything we can help with.

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I guess, yeah.

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Besides, I wanna meet more of me, even if she is traumatized.

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Hug.

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Hug! And then going downstairs?

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Yep!

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The new Edie is still asleep when she gets down.

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Her sister isn't, though. "Hi," she says, quietly enough not to wake her sister. "You're the married-and-pregnant ones?"

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He squeezes Idaia and lets her do the talking.

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"That's us, yeah. Also the between-you-and-the-others-in-trauma once, we literally died this one time, it wasn't fun. Tyelcormo had a much worse time of it than I did, I was just unconscious the whole time I was dead and he was pining horribly."

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"That sucks, I'm sorry. Died of what?"

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"Froze to death. My original body's still somewhere in the Arctic, I think."

Permalink Mark Unread

"What were you doing there?"

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"That's a long story. Does anyone have summaries of everyone written up? Maitimo, do you have summaries of everyone written up or something?" she asks Circle.

Permalink Mark Unread

"Yes, but a lot of it's chip-locked computers only. Not that bit, of course."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Chip-locked--does this have anything to do with the bits of metal in your head?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Demons can make stuff, that includes files and notes and stuff. There's a way of making sure they can't read your notes, but it's - well, this."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Huh. Probably a good thing you already know one of me, then."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Would you be inclined to tinker with the metal in our heads otherwise? My kind of Elf has a second kind of chip, too - though we're so easy to resurrect that murdering us is barely annoying -"

Permalink Mark Unread

"I wouldn't tinker with something in your head without asking about it but if you already know one of me I can be confident enough that you're not going to freak out over the fact that I have the capacity to rip either of those out of your skull that I don't have to panic about what you're going to do about being afraid."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I do already know two of you, and also there are unbound daeva running around and I am used to the idea that most of the people around me could kill me in a heartbeat if they so pleased. Please don't worry about it."

Permalink Mark Unread

"...Most?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Well, your angel alt and Edie's demon alt and Cam. And Idaia and Imliss probably too, come to think of it. They are not by numbers most of the people here but they're most of the ones I see around."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Fair enough."

Permalink Mark Unread

"It would probably take more than a heartbeat."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Well, if there's ever a really good reason, I'm retrievable but the Bar expels people for murder."

Permalink Mark Unread

Idaia considers situations that would be worth it. They mostly involve Thaurons. She very deliberately stops thinking about it.

Permalink Mark Unread

"Anyway, nice to meet you both, please feel free to throw around powerful magic.... Lodestar, can your sister alter magic-Elf oaths?"

Permalink Mark Unread

 "Dunno, depends how they work."

Permalink Mark Unread

"We need to test that as soon as she wakes up, my evil rapist alt has his boyfriend under oaths not to run away from him and to self-destruct if we kill the evil rapist alt."

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"I'm going to need some context."

Permalink Mark Unread

"So. My species can swear binding oaths. Both chip-Elves - that's us - and magic Elves, which is what we're calling the kind that come from shiny tree Ardas. So far there've been two shiny tree Ardas and two normal ones. Binding oaths can affect your psychology. In particular, if you swear to believe something, or to feel something, you - will. Evil rapist alt liked keeping his boyfriend under variously restrictive oaths. We talked him down to less restrictive oaths, which is how we got the current set."

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"How was evil boyfriend getting him to swear oaths in the first place?"

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"He had him woken up in the middle of the night with the news his parents had been murdered but his siblings were still alive, had him dragged before him in public, and asked him if he'd rather have an oath or an execution. And then bootstrapped off that one, I think - their world also has other forms of mind-control..."

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"Fuck."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Yes. It would be lovely if your sister could erase them."

Permalink Mark Unread

"She'll do her best."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I don't doubt it."

Permalink Mark Unread

"So why do you have an evil rapist alt?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"We have absolutely no idea. Everyone else's alts are all the same as they are, so far, though we haven't checked many people from the world my evil alt is from. ...it has already been verified to the satisfaction of people present that it is not the case all mes are evil rapists, but if you want additional verification -"

Permalink Mark Unread

"I expect if you were you probably wouldn't be telling me about the other one. And, y'know. Neither of Edie's alts hates you."

Permalink Mark Unread

"They do not! Though the evil one seems to have mostly kept it secret."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Yes but they could kill you and are attaching themselves permanently to your brother. You can't keep a secret like that forever."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Alright, that is the extent to which I feel obliged to let people reassure themselves I'm not an evil rapist. ...thank you."

Permalink Mark Unread

 

"I mean if you're comfortable with mind reading Edie could just check but it wouldn't be reasonable to expect that."

Permalink Mark Unread

"If she needs it to really be sure I will not object but I would definitely not prefer it."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I'm not surprised. She'll trust her alts."

Permalink Mark Unread

"They have excellent judgment."

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"Naturally."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I'm so glad you two are here in time for the wedding. Emma is a pain to get presents for, because demon, but I found a secret solution and would be happy to share it when she's not right here."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Shall we go outside and socialize with the squid, dear?" she asks her fiancé.

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"I think we should!"

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They do that.

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And he explains how to find catalogues full of demon-worthy presents.

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"Huh."

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"It's very useful to know! Especially since we'll teach you summoning and pay demons to fix problems for us!"

Permalink Mark Unread

"That'd be nice."

Permalink Mark Unread

"It's a lot of fun! By far my favorite of the magic systems so far discovered, because it involves interacting with people!"

Permalink Mark Unread

"...That's an interesting criterion."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Most magic systems are not about negotiating for fantastic cosmic powers. It is a distinguishing trait of ours. It might be the reason I'm more functional than my alts - though that might also be the homophobia -"

Permalink Mark Unread

"The homophobia?"

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"My Arda is the only one so far that has gotten over itself on that front - I suppose 1980s Earth wouldn't have, either - and versions of me take 'genuinely being the person I present myself as to the people who trust and respect me' really seriously and therefore are fairly dysfunctional whenever the people who trust and respect them wouldn't if they knew more."

Permalink Mark Unread

"That sounds really unpleasant, I'm sorry."

 

Emma and Dolittle walk in and do not immediately jump into the conversation.

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"Mostly for the mes in other worlds, as I said. But thank you."

Permalink Mark Unread

"...So you mentioned having dads plural do the other ones not?"

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"Oh, I have dads plural because he forked, there are ten of him."

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"Wow."

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"He's really smart and there are a lot of problems we need solved."

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"Makes sense.

I had two dads."

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"Not by forking, I take it."

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"By 'mutant biology gets really fucking weird'."

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"...okay! There is, uh, technology for that - secret technology, for good reasons - but not 1960s technology."

Permalink Mark Unread

"What reasons?"

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"So daeva innately live in realms where there are no non-daeva people or animals smarter than cats. Demons can't make minds, so it stays that way. Technology that a demon could conjure that would let them have children would probably be used by lots of nice daeva to have children and by some horrible daeva to make personal slaves. We're going to conquer Hell but we can't yet."

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"Oh.

That would be bad, yeah."

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"Yes. In my home dimension demons can steal souls, and sometimes do. We are going to put an end to that, too."

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"How do they do this...?"

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"The chips in our heads - not the computer chips, the one I have and my brother has and Emma has but Tyelcormo and Idaia do not - back up our brains. We can be resurrected from those. If you are sufficiently desperate you can trade a demon someone's chip, or if you are sufficiently bad at bindings they could run around collecting them. And then, back in Hell, get people if they want."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Oh, yikes. ...So when you said soul you meant the chips?"

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"I take it in other worlds 'the part of you that contains your self and persists after you die' is more of a metaphysical construct."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Rather, yes."

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"Well, we keep our souls in our skulls and can trade them for favors, though we don't usually survive the trade."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I can imagine."

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"Anyway, you should get Emma to give you computers, then you can read all the classified material."

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"That's gonna be weird," she opines, but requests the computer anyway.

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Poof.

Permalink Mark Unread

"I was right, this is weird."

Permalink Mark Unread

"How so?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"There's metal in my head. It's sort of like trying to smell your own nose except for all the ways that's an absolutely terrible metaphor."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Well, it's useful metal, so hopefully you get used to it - if not, maybe there's a way to do it all with plastics..."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I'm sure I will," she says dismissively.

Permalink Mark Unread

And he sends her all the world-conquest plans and relevant information.

Permalink Mark Unread

She spends a lot of time perusing assorted backstories and skims the world conquest stuff for relevance to her world.

Permalink Mark Unread

The world conquest stuff is planning to skip over post-industrial worlds that do not have high-leverage local magic, except to hand out advanced vaccines and so forth.

Permalink Mark Unread

 

Well, vaccines are good.

Permalink Mark Unread

There's space for suggestions if she has any.

Permalink Mark Unread

"I wonder what's left of my government."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Emma?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Still sorting through documents."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Sorry people suck. Persecution of minorities: some things never change."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Sometimes when I can afford to woolgather I wonder if I'm beating my Holocaust survivor dad in terms of suffering. The answer keeps being 'no,' but."

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"My grandfather was a Holocaust survivor," Emma murmurs.

Permalink Mark Unread

"My Melkor had prophecies of the Holocaust. Well. At least one. Distributed it while stirring shit in Tirion."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Wait, really? How does that work?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"In which way?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Prophecies."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Yes, but do you specifically mean 'how do prophecies in general work' or 'humans are supposed to have free will, how the fuck is there a prophecy about them'?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"I did not know enough about prophecies to know that made them particularly remarkable. Doesn't everybody have free will?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"...Not having free will is supposed to be the quality supporting non-chip-based oaths."

Permalink Mark Unread

"...okaaay. Shiny Tree Arda runs off - really bizarre internal logic, I guess why not - what does it mean to not have free will?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"You can make oaths and end up doing what you fated to do. As far as I recall. Dearheart?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"It never made much sense to me. But - yeah, history's scripted, and Elves are - designed to stay on script in a way mortals aren't, though a universe of just mortals would still be deterministic - yeah, dunno. Eru planned everything from the beginning, I know that much."

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"So we're all confused, just in varying levels of detail."

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"Pretty much."

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Idaia leans back into him a little more.

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Lodestar watches them both thoughtfully.

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Hugs.

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"Is there any way of checking whether worlds have ones of people?" she asks Maitimo.

Permalink Mark Unread

"Yes. When there are demons around the answer to 'is there anyway to check whether worlds have something' is 'make the demons conjure it for you."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Emma, will you check if our world has one of him?"

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She checks. "There is not."

Permalink Mark Unread

"We don't seem to come on Earths that aren't ex-Ardas."

Permalink Mark Unread

"...Has anyone checked that my Earth is not one of those?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Well, I suppose not..." She checks. "It is not. No surprise."

Permalink Mark Unread

"One Earth has Melkor's summoner buried in the middle. But yours shouldn't have that, either."

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Emma checks hurriedly. "It does not."

Permalink Mark Unread

Lodestar registers her alt's sister's reaction and looks up context on this nifty computer.

Permalink Mark Unread

Summoners: significant for this reason! Melkors: already known to be bad news, Abaddon's version is loose and causing trouble.

Permalink Mark Unread

Eugh.

"So I'm guessing that mastery of one of the four fundamental forces of the universe isn't actually all that relevant in this case, but..."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I mean, we could make more scale models of the place and you could see if you plus an angel and a demon can kill the guy without tripping the thing?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Oh, maybe. What exactly happens if it's tripped?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Planet explodes."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Yes, let's see if I can do anything about that. Where's my alt?"

Permalink Mark Unread

Hey, Emily?

Permalink Mark Unread

Yes?

Permalink Mark Unread

Your alt wants to meet you and have another go at not blowing up the world.

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Not blowing up the world, my favorite thing. I'll be right down.

Permalink Mark Unread

"She's coming," he reports.

Permalink Mark Unread

"This is so weird," she mutters.

Permalink Mark Unread

"Which parts?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Mostly the parts where I have a negligible chance of dying or almost-dying or seeing someone else die or running across a corpse in the next week."

Permalink Mark Unread

"That's a good kind of weird."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Mm. Leaves me kind of on-edge, though. Like I'm waiting for the other shoe to drop."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Well, maybe Melkor'll walk in, but we're hoping not." He squeezes Idaia.

Permalink Mark Unread

"Hell in a handbasket, that is actually a thing that could happen."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Bar says people inclined to break the rules in here don't tend to get doors."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Oh, good. That's a relief."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Yeah. It's not a guarantee, but."

Permalink Mark Unread

"...Should we be worried about a Thauron, from everything I've heard he could probably respect the rules while here in order to, like, fuck with at least one Maitimo in a non-rules-breaking way."

Permalink Mark Unread

"...if the landlords do that then - I mean, honestly, fuck them -"

Permalink Mark Unread

"I think the information we currently have is not sufficient to say that they would do that and condemn them for it but yeah."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Yeah." Shudder.

Permalink Mark Unread

Hug.

Permalink Mark Unread

We should go back up where we're safe - they can come too if they want -

Permalink Mark Unread

Isn't it technically safer here, what with Nechar doing security?

Permalink Mark Unread

I think him not knowing we're here is better than him not being allowed to do violence.

Permalink Mark Unread

I think we don't have a good reason to expect him to come in ever or now instead of later if he does and we're supposed to be taking the time I'm pregnant to turn into reasonably healthy adults for little Artemis and we can't just hide upstairs forever...

Permalink Mark Unread

Why not?

Permalink Mark Unread

Because I'm tired of living in fear.

Permalink Mark Unread

And I am tired of watching people die.

Permalink Mark Unread

The security's supposed to be able to handle daeva.

Permalink Mark Unread

I know. But we have a big suite, we can totally acclimate your alts up there.

Permalink Mark Unread

We can go upstairs now if it'll make you feel better but I'm not willing to just not go downstairs ever.

Permalink Mark Unread

I don't mind coming down here when there's stuff happening. But I'd rather hang out somewhere where we own the door when everyone's supposed to be relaxing.

 .

Permalink Mark Unread

Okay. "Is it okay if we move this upstairs...?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Edie will definitely wake up if we try to move her."

Permalink Mark Unread

"We need a fairy," he grumbles. "Okay, we can wait until she wakes up."

Permalink Mark Unread

"She'd notice anyway."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Even if it were the whole couch and all the surrounding air moving?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"If you could actually hold all the surrounding air still around her you might not wake her up."

Permalink Mark Unread

"My world doesn't have summoning but in general if you're thinking about daeva and your question is 'the fuck, that counts?' as an application of their abilities, yep, yep it does."

Permalink Mark Unread

"That sounds like a challenge."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Go."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Playing arbitrary music by vibrating the air? Silencing things by stopping all vibrations emanating from a source? Cryokinesis and pyrokinesis by moving molecules to make them go faster or slower? Preventing a planet from blowing up by refusing to allow things that are trying to explode to move away from each other?"

Permalink Mark Unread

He looks at the people who actually have native daeva.

Permalink Mark Unread

"Never heard of a fairy playing music with telekinesis, silencing yes, cryo and pyrokinesis yes, they don't have the range to hold a planet together but could probably handle a small moon."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Could several fairies coordinated telepathically handle a planet?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"An Earth-sized planet would be a lot of telepathically coordinated fairies but in principle yes."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Or fewer who are amenable to forking..."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I think the range of a fairy is on the order of three hundred miles? So we're talking about several thousand fairies, and if any make a mistake - but I suppose they could practice on duplicates of the planet first..."

Permalink Mark Unread

"And we should see how my magnetism interacts."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Lots to test."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Yeah."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Lots of time, too."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Yeah."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I think there's also some 'catch up to modern engineering' files in there."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I don't know any engineering but I suppose I can learn."

Permalink Mark Unread

"You'd have an edge because of the mastery of the fundamental forces of the universe. Any sense of what you want to be doing?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Surviving. Saving as many people as possible. Eventually gathering the scattered remnants of my people and rebuilding, if there's anything left to rebuild.

I do have several machine plans memorized, to build when they're useful. I just don't know how they work."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Well, now there are demons and you can cheat."

Permalink Mark Unread

That actually wins a smile from her. "Cheating is good."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Also if there are lost notes or blueprints or great works of literature, demons."

Permalink Mark Unread

"...My grandparents' house, maybe."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I am sure they'd be happy to help."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Not here, though. Maybe if we get Dad back."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Your other alt is very optimistic about resurrection eventually!"

Permalink Mark Unread

"That's good."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Without it I can't really do much for mortal races, unless if they go to summoning worlds and summon they hook into the local afterlife."

Permalink Mark Unread

"How long is 'eventually' likely to be?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"...couple centuries for her, probably, but everyone moves at a different pace..."

Permalink Mark Unread

"...So what kind of not mortal is she?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Her-mortality-would-inconvenience-my-father type!"

Permalink Mark Unread

"...Oh?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"He is working on a solution."

Permalink Mark Unread

"So he's making her immortal so she can bring back everyone else?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"He's making her immortal because she's our sister. But also it will be lovely if she can bring back everyone else."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Oh, that makes sense. There are some immortal mutants but Edie and I probably aren't among their number."

Permalink Mark Unread

"His version won't scale well but it should be doable if yous only show up every subjective year or so."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Why isn't it scalable?"

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"Mind I'm not a magic Elf, but it involves giving really long instruction sets to metal so the right magic resonances form."

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"...Metal?"

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"Yep. If you can duplicate their things the magic Elves will be deliriously happy."

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 "I hope I can."

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"Dunno how to check - Bar, you don't happen to sell magic Elf style magic items, do you?"

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I can't distribute magical things.

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"Then we'll have to ask the magic Elves to whip one up for you, though I don't think any of them are fast."

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"What kind of not fast?"

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"Dad could do something simple in a week, but he's busy on immortality. I could do it in two, maybe? Just something that glows or whatever."

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"I'd love to see what I could do."

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"I'll have a go."

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"Thank you."

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He hugs Idaia. "Sure."

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Is there a point to glowing rings or is it just that they're easy?

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Just easy. You can do ones that glow when there are orcs around, or probably some other kind of specifiable thing.

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Sounds pretty, though.

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Yeah. It is that.

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...I wonder if it interacts interestingly with demons.

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Hmm?

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Normally demons can't make magic things and don't have osanwe but if she held the instructions in her mind while making the thing...

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Still shouldn't work, I don't think it's a matter of not knowing them in enough detail, the not making magic things.

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Yeah, I was just wondering if, since they were creating the objects, they could sort of--embed the instructions--while they were doing that, even without osanwe. It was probably a silly thought.

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Probably depends if magic is actually magical or whatever. But I think it is.

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No reason not to test it, probably.

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No.

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...Might be a while before the new one wakes up.

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I'll live.

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Okay. Love you.

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Hug.

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"For that matter, making magic items involves osanwe; maybe your sister's telepathy can do something with that when she wakes up."

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"I don't really know enough about  your magic system to guess but she's a really strong telepath."

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"At minimum she should be able to make them, then, like we do."

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"I wonder if Cerebro would help, if she has an advantage..."

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"Sorry, who?"

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"Not who, what. It's a machine. A psychic amplifier. Extends range and sheer power tremendously but makes it--dangerous--to interact too closely with specific minds."

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"If it's not magic the demons can make you one."

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"Oh. I suppose they could. I was thinking I would, Dad had me memorize the plans not long after the school fell..."

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Nod.

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"He did most of the stuff we could do--Dad had powers just like mine and Papa had powers just like Edie's--but he knew it was best if I could take over, if anything happened--and it did--"

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"We'll get them back."

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"In a few hundred years."

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"They might go by really fast, if the mysterious time-dilation thingy is being nice."

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"And if it's being mean?"

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"Then I guess they'll feel like forever."

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"At least I got one more year than he did."

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"Sorry."

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"Mhm."

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"Is there a good history of your world we should read, or should we hear it from you?"

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"I dunno if anyone's been writing history the past eight years--probably at least some shitty propaganda."

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"But not really anything we should be reading to get the whole picture."

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"It's not completely out of the question but if there's anything like that I never heard about it. That's not strong evidence, though, I had higher priorities."

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"I can imagine."

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"So I can try to explain or you can try to find one yourself."

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"I'd like to hear it from you but not if you don't want to talk about it."

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"So how familiar are you with the history of the Earths that aren't mine?"

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"Fairly familiar. The point of divergence is the existence of mutants?"

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"As far as I can tell so far, anyway."

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"Stop me when I hit a wrong US President...Washington Adams Jefferson Madison Monroe Quincy Adams Jackson Van Buren Harrison Tyler Polk Taylor Fillmore Pierce Buchanan Lincoln Johnson Grant Hayes Garfield Arthur Cleveland Harrison Cleveland McKinley Roosevelt Taft Wilson Harding Coolidge Hoover Roosevelt Truman Eisenhower Kennedy Johnson Nixon Ford Carter -"

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"Those're all right. Carter had been President less than a year when the Sentinels happened.

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"Then you don't have significant historical divergences, looks like - it is really weird how closely history sticks to the script in worlds with different magics and different people..."

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"...Did the others have the Cuban Missile Crisis?"

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"I don't know Earth history that well, Emma, d'you -"

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"Yep."

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"Well that's really weird, because it was caused by a mutant in my world."

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"There are a lot of things about cross-world similarities that make terrifyingly little sense - Abaddon's Earth had a Revelation at the same time as Cam did it despite Cam and his family not existing -"

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"You've lost me."

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"All in the files! But, in Cam and Emma's world, like mine, it is possible to summon daeva, and this was a secret until Cam decided to go public with it in the early 21st century. And Abaddon, my world, also has an Earth, and in that Earth someone else went public with it at the same time as Cam did in his world, and the same way."

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"Oh. That's very strange."

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"You don't say. And all the versions of me have the same name, despite the fact the magic ones get prophetic names."

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"Might depend on how prophecy works but yeah."

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"Periodically we get curious and bother Bar about it, but it rarely gets us anywhere."

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"Why would Bar know how prophecy works?"

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"No, no, about how alternate universe versions of people work."

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"Oh. In what ways has it failed to get you anywhere?"

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"No published works explain the phenomenon, Bar can identify alts but can't tell us how we could do it - when they don't look conveniently alike, I mean, and apparently they don't always -"

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"You don't think you could recognize yourself?"

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"I could probably recognize anyone, but personal interaction with people is not a very efficient way to figure out if there's a version of you somewhere in the world."

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"Didn't Emma check my world for an alt of your brother?"

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"Yeah, and that's weird too, you can't conjure for 'married to', you can't conjure for 'likes these things', you can conjure for 'alternate universe version of' - why?"

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"Because you are who you are in a way that you aren't 'the spouse of' or 'a person who likes these things'?"

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"But in what sense does it mean anything to say that you are an alternate universe version of someone? Are there metaphysical True Identity tags floating through the aether along behind us?"

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"Who knows?"

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"Well, I'd like to."

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"I dunno, I don't know if floating tags are a thing but I feel like there's something--pretty basic about identity. Maybe I believe in the non-metal kind of soul or something."

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"It would be strange if in addition to all the extant verifiable kinds of souls there were a metaphysical kind."

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"Strange compared to everything else?"

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"The fact a lot of strange things have happened doesn't mean we should put particular weight on lots of equally strange things happening, I don't think." Shrug. "Maybe someone'll walk through the door with an explanation."

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"Mm, no, but it does make strangeness much weaker evidence against something."

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"I cannot imagine a model of identity where 'alternate universe version of' is a basic unit of reality, and I do not want to think I share a soul with Midnight, and luckily there does not seem to be any evidence for that."

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"As you like."

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"There's also a person who Emma thought was sort of you and Edie in one person."

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"...Well, if someone was gonna have a set of us as normal twins and then chimerism happened, I guess that's plausible."

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"I suppose we could check whether she was a chimera."

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"How?"

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"Demons!"

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"I sort of guessed! ...Maybe I'm just not immediately figuring out how that does it because I don't know what kind of spacefuture genetics technology you have to analyze tissue samples and I haven't seen the inside of one of my era's since I was twelve."

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"We could pretty trivially do it, if you can't just conjure for criteria like 'genetic chimera' to start with."

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"Okay.

I miss Papa."

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"I can imagine."

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"He'd be so excited--Hank would be so excited--"

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"Will be so excited. We'll get 'em back."

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"I hope so."

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"I am very sure that if our current plans don't work someone'll walk through the door with one that does, eventually."

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"Okay."

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And he leaves her to read the multiverse explanation files.

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She does this. Idaia offers her a listen at the fetal hear monitor necklace; she is charmed by the concept and accepts. She solicits food (sourced from Bar and her lovely recommending-things ability and paid for in demonic counterfeit) and eats it.

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Eventually her sister wakes up.

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"Hello! You missed getting a computer installed in your head and not much else, want to hang out somewhere where we control the door? I want to hang out somewhere where we control the door."

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"I don't think I have the context to fully appreciate that remark but I don't mind going elsewhere."

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"People can come through the door at any time. So far they have all been alternate universe versions of people we know, but if they aren't, it's more relaxing to hang out somewhere where we are in charge of the door."

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"Okay." It sounds like there is yet more context than that but probably in terms of him being afraid of someone or something or some category thereof of thing coming through the door and she doesn't need to know what that is to understand the desire.

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He hugs Idaia.

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"Did you have somewhere in mind?"

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"We just got a bigger place."

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"Okay. ...Congratulations, by the way."

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"Thank you!"

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"They have fetal heart monitor necklaces."

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"...That's amazing."

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"They also have FTL and stuff."

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"That's cool too."

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They go upstairs.

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Idaia lets her alt listen to the necklace. Her alt is thrilled.

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Awww.

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"You're really lucky," she sighs when she's done.

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"Yeah."

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"Do you have a name?"

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"We're all Tyelcormo."

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"...For the baby."

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"Oh. Yes, we do, I don't know if we're announcing it yet... dear?"

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"Is there a reason not to?"

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"Elves wait until six weeks after the baby's born."

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"Why?"

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"Why do any traditions exist?"

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"Some of them have traceable origins!"

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"I don't pay much attention to that kind of thing but I don't think this one does."

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"Do you want to keep it a secret?"

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"An Essecarmë would be nice and I think my family'd be sad not to be there for the naming of the baby, but it is a long time to wait."

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"Essecarmë?"

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"That's what the naming ceremony's called."

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"Ah. ...We have named her, though, does that not affect anything?"

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"You don't usually make it up on the spot at the ceremony."

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...Yeah, but...there's a difference between "I am deciding what her name will be" and "I am deciding what her name is" and I was very much conceptualizing it as the latter.

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If you want to tell everybody, you can.

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If they'll be sad if we don't do the thing I wanna do the thing, I just also want to not tiptoe around her name until then.

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That seems like a fair enough compromise. 

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"Her name's Artemis Serefinwe, but don't actively spread it around--if anyone asks, it's not a secret, but our family'll be happier if it's a suprise."

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"That's a pretty name."

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"She's going to be beautiful."

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She looks between the two of them. "Probably, yeah."

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I love you so much.

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I love you too, dear. We're going to do okay. We're going to be okay.

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Yeah. We are.

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"You two're really lucky."

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"Really didn't feel that way. At all."

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"...Yeah, I can see that. Just," she shrugs and looks away. "Lucky compared to me doesn't necessarily mean--actually lucky--and I think Idaia is, lucky compared to me, even if you aren't."

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"Okay." He squeezes his wife.

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"I should come up with a nickname," she sighs, "but it's not like Emily who could just base something off her powers, 'telepathic' isn't exactly disambiguating here..."

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"Are you a different kind?"

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"Well, yeah, but the differences between kinds of telepathy are harder to sum up into a pity monicker than the bare fact of its existence."

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"True. The Space set aren't even really telepaths, but it rounds out close enough..."

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"And everything I can think of that isn't telepathy-related is incredibly depressing."

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"Kind of a shitty multiverse."

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"Or at least a shitty selection therefrom, yeah."

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"Do we have a reason to think it's not random? I guess there's 'the landlords are fucking with us' -"

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"If it's random why are there so many of--us?"

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"...okay, fair."

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"I'll probably think of something eventually."

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"I think some people have decided not to poke lest they annoy -" he gestures -"whoever runs the place."

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"I meant for a name."

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"Ah. Can't help you there."

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"Yeah, didn't think so."

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"Do you want to hang out while you read up on worlds and think about it?"

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"Yeah. Um--can I--"

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"Yeah, of course."

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She hugs them.

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Poor sad Idaia-alt. Hug.

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Yeah. Hug.

I am really, really glad I met you when I did. I'm not sure what percent of this is the whole post-apocalyptic survivor thing and how much is the not having anyone but her twin thing--and it's probably mostly the former, but her people just died, they didn't betray her--I'm so glad I stumbled on your family so quickly.

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Yeah, otherwise you'd just have been stuck wandering and you wouldn't even have known to eat the plants.

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I actually meant 'as opposed to not getting attacked by a crazy snake with a mirror for a face,' not 'instead of wandering around Valinor' but that too.

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Yay crazy snake with a mirror for a face. Kiss.

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With all the multiverse at our disposal maybe you actually could shoot one with an arrow with a rolled-up thank you note.

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I bet that just sends the thank you note to a random universe.

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She giggles over osanwe and presses a little closer.

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Unlike Imliss Edie does not particularly object to making out in her presence.

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Oh good.

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She would probably object to having to stop hugging so they probably shouldn't go much farther than kissing. But Tyelcormo can kiss his pregnant wife as much as he wants.

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As much as he wants? That's a lot.

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Well, limited by how much kissing can be fit into a given time interval. Infinite kiss density is, for now, sadly beyond them.

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Surely the engineers are working on that?

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The engineers are still working on human immortality.

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Someone should insist they switch to kiss density.

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No, it's probably more important to secure access to kisses for an unlimited time before packing unlimited kisses into a limited time.

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Both. Both are important. Squeeze.

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Kisses and snuggles and listening to the fetal heart monitor.

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Sounds good.

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And Edie hugs them and reads about the multiverse and contemplates names.

Eventually,when she feels she can comfortably un-hug she goes to see about finding someone to talk to about instruction sets and seeing if she can leverage her kind of telepathy to enchanting things.

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Circle and Cam are hanging out in the Bar. Everyone else is off somewhere, looks like.

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"Hi. Um. Do you know who I could talk to about telepathy applications?"

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"Flat Elf, probably, but they're mostly busy working on immortality - I'll ping them for when they next take a break -"

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"I could probably at least test the languages thing on someone else..."

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"Sure, what do you need for that?"

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"One person who speaks a given language and one who doesn't--I'm really rusty on everything but English and Spanish, at this point--"

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"So want to see if you can get Quenya from us?"

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"Yeah--give me a minute, I haven't done this in years--"

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"Not a problem."

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And after a few minutes, she says, "Okay, I think I've got it."

He won't notice any difference unless he speaks English to have heard her previous speech as that. Cam will, though.

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He hasn't picked English up yet. 

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"Quenya," confirms Cam.

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"Good, so I can still do that. I guess I just need to wait for the engineers to take a break, then."

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"Nechar got me what ought to be a really well designed telepathy shield thing, if you want to grab some languages I think I can let you do that without worrying about anything else."

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"That would be great."

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"I have lots, comes of being a daeva, your demon alt and her sister have probably got a good selection too."

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"I read about that! I'm just--not really sure where to find them, exactly, Milliways fucks with the spatial aspect of my powers."

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"Could send them a computer message."

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"I really need to get used to these things."

She sends a computer message.

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My new alt has confirmed ability to copy languages and wants to mine my brain for them, Emma tells her fiance.

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Cool! Dad'll be jealous.

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Even if she can also distribute them?

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Then he'll just be excited.

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That sounds more fun for everyone.

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Dunno, he's creative when jealous.

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Ooh. What d'you think he'll do if she can't?

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Probably figure out a nicer chip translator interface, he's been meaning to do that anyway.

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Well, we'll see what happens. After I go downstairs and be her Rosetta Stone.

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Cool!

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Wanna come with or stay up here and work on marriage blessings?

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I'll come with!

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Awesome! Then they can go downstairs and see what can be done language-wise.

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Still-hasn't-picked a nickname isn't sure if she can give people languages but she's willing to try!

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Their father will be eager to hear the results, once he checks his messages and finds out this is a thing at all.

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Yeah she's still waiting on a Flat Elf being available to see if she can enchant stuff. Meanwhile, does anyone want to be a test subject, Emma--okay, can you go by the lady's last name, please, Doolittle is a last name and Emma is confusingly similar to both Emily and another telepath who's probably dead--anyway, her alt can't do it on grounds of already speaking all applicable languages.

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Okay, that's fair. Fairfax it is, then. Slightly less aesthetic but the improvement in disambiguation is worth it.

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"I would be delighted to get a language!"

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"Okay. Um, demonic or earthly?"

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"Either way!"

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Congratulations, Maitimo, you can now speak Basque.

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"Cool! That works!"

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"Awesome."

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"That's tremendously useful! How many can you do at a time?"

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"...Good question. I can try to scale up, if you want--but I'd want to do it slowly and carefully, this is mind stuff."

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"Of course. Whatever you're comfortable with."

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And after several minutes Maitimo can speak Arabic and a random demon language!

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"Cool! We'll probably want this when we land on new worlds, easier than machine translation or taking a local back to a summoning world to summon someone."

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"Oh, that's good."

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"And my father'll be delighted."

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"I'm glad."

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"I'll message him." He does that. "No telling how long until he sees it, with the time discontinuity."

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"And the thing where he's working?"

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"And that, but that he at least stops to eat every so often his-time."

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"Well, that's good."

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"It was much harder on him when the world wasn't paused."

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She shudders. "Yeah."

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"But now we're always going to have Milliways for crisis management."

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"That's--that's good."

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Hug?

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Yes please.

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Hug.

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She is not quite actively crying but her breathing is noticeably hitched.

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That's okay.

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Yeah.

"I don't--quite know what to do, here."

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"You could probably bother the flat Macalaurë about artifact magic, I'm sure he knows at least enough you could test it. But - if I were you I'd want some time off -"

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"I--I don't quite--know how. I've--had to be on, constantly, every waking moment and some of the sleeping ones--for years--and when I try to just do nothing all my hard-won survival instincts start screaming at me--"

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"For a while Tyelcormo was organizing endless sailing regattas, that's an option."

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"I--maybe? I don't know how to sail, I guess I could learn."

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"Your alt picked it up pretty fast."

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"Okay."

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"We should've grabbed some therapists or something."

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"Was that an option?"

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"We briefly opened the door into Abaddon and grabbed a bunch of people with relevant expertise, I didn't think of therapists."

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"Oh well."

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"My alt probably couldn't use it anyway."

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"Hm?"

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"He's got issues of the sort therapy conventionally handles but his might be awfully intractable."

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"If I shouldn't ask any more about it then I won't."

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"No, no, it's all in the files, but - the war was awful and he doesn't have any reasons to keep existing now that he's got alts."

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"Um."

Permalink Mark Unread

"You can ask him if you want, I don't think he minds talking about it."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Do you think that's a good idea?"

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"I don't think it'd harm him. I - don't have much sense of whether it'd be good for you."

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"It might not. I can probably do it later."

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"...probably, yeah."

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"Is he likely to kill himself soon?"

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"...when a means walks through the door, probably -"

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"Oh."

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"Everyone else is better company, promise."

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"...When I hear that a person is suicidal my primary concern isn't that I'll find them bad company."

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"He's a me, so it's what he'd care about."

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"If you say so."

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"The alts thing is a bit uncanny."

Permalink Mark Unread

"It's just--sort of hard to imagine--when killing yourself is so much a worse harm to the people who love you than being bad company is to a stranger."

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"If I had to characterize it - he tried living for people for 30,000 years, he is unwilling to do it for the lifetime of the universe, so it's a hurt he is going to do them eventually, but anything beyond that isn't necessary and wouldn't be okay -"

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"Oh. That's--"

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Hug.

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Yeah she's for-real crying now.

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Understandably.

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Fairfax hugs her fiance. Wingfully. I feel selfishly glad that if it was going to happen to one of him it wasn't yours.

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Mine's safe, space ones you can get back -

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Yeah. Yay Space.

...All this magic flying around...I wonder if it might be possible to fork Flat Elves at some point.

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Probably. 

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At which point the question of whether to rescue-fork their Maitimo comes up.

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Yeah. 

Sigh.

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And that's not a simple question, however much we might wish it was. She sighs. Ugh. Why do things have to be so depressing, it's terrible.

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Seriously.

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I love you. It's--good to have that to hang onto, at least.

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Really glad we came out of everything so - okay.

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I think most of our trauma got nipped in the bud, yeah.

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I hope we find more early.

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Yeah. I really hope so.

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So many of them -

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Yeah. Wingsnuggles.

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Wingsnuggles are nice.

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They are! Being a daeva is great like that. Any idea for finding them faster, or is that line of thinking just--fruitlessly worrying?

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There's probably some way - I hate the idea that they could be passing the decisive points right now, out there somewhere -

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Yeah...maybe we could ask Bar if anyone's tried anything like this before that she can remember?

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Oh, good idea, let's.

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"Bar, can you remember if anyone's tried to interfere in a universe they only knew about theoretically, and how that worked out?"

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I'm not sure what you mean.

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"There are a fuckton of Ardas with time passing in them. At any moment one of them could--have their Maitimo captured--or any of the atrocities in Ozymandias--we want that not to happen."

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Occasionally people can prompt irregular behavior in the door with some kinds of magic. You may leave things with me to be offered to future patrons of certain templates. I do not know of another way short of controlled interdimensional transit to interfere.

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"What kinds of magic can prompt irregular door behavior?"

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Most recently, a person had influence over doors in general as a concept and was able to apply it to the Milliways door.

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"Huh. Okay."

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"I guess it's something but we can assume most Ardas won't find doors."

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"Yeah...I wonder if dreamshaping can do some kind of door-or-something related effects that would help..."

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"Could ask 'em."

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"Could also maybe ask if Nechar would be willing to try anything."

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"He's, like, super sick of us. But yeah, might be worth it."

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"Yeah, you sort of have to feel sorry for him, but on the other hand if making him sick of us saves a Maitimo from being tortured for decades in Angband..."

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"Yeah."

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"Let's ask Circle to do the actual asking, though, he's a Maitimo and there's no point in not asking as nicely as possible."

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"Hey, Nelyo, have we tried asking Nechar for help on targeting interdimensional transit -"

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"What specifically would you be asking him to do?"

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"Force the door to open to Ardas we don't have anyone from."

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"Worth asking but I doubt it'd work."

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"Yeah, but--the odds of failure are considerably lower than the number of Ardas, so--"

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"We probably can only ask so much of Nechar."

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"Yeah," she sighs.

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"Which isn't to say this shouldn't be it, just - if we can think of something with better odds -"

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"Yeah, that makes sense."

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"We've got worldleaping, just not demon-secure."

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"Yeah. And I think the engineers said they could do something about demons with the Silmarils..."

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"They did! I don't know the timeline there."

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"Especially since they have to do immortality first."

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"And immortality they're in a hurry on."

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"Yeah. I know I've been saying this a lot but I really hope they get done in enough time to not miss much of the baby's childhood."

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"I doubt they'll miss all of it, at least."

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"And Macalaure isn't an engineer. Still.

Honestly my biggest concern on her behalf is that it's not like there are a lot of other kids around."

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"That's pretty typical for Elven childhoods. Not for humans?"

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"Definitely not, no."

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"It delays their development?"

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"Not across the board, and the research isn't entirely conclusive--for obvious reasons--but it can have a serious negative impact on their social skills."

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"Hmm. We can't very conveniently steal any - Abaddon's didn't leave Valinor -"

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"Yeah. It could be that having attentive adults willing to participate in communal child activities will patch the gap perfectly well, but..."

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"There's kids on New Valinor in Singularity. If any of the families would want to come here, which I don't know at all."

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"That's a reasonable idea, though. So far the only ones I'd had were 'hope the baby gets siblings' or 'test the consistency of alts to a given set of parents.'"

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"...it'd surprise me if my brother's okay having children with half the family likely to miss their entire childhood."

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"I didn't say it was a good idea."

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"We can at least ask the New Valinor technicians what they think of inviting some families in."

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"Yeah, it's not urgent but that does sound like a good idea."

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"I will look into it."

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"Thanks," she sighs. "Probably it'll be fine one way or another."

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"We definitely don't want to take chances."

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"Yeah.

Come to think of it for a lot of Earth's history it was not unusual to have families living all by themselves in basically the middle of nowhere and the kids didn't turn out worse than the surrounding culture would have predicted--I think, I should do some research..."

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"...probably, yeah -"

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"Conveniently I am both 'a demon' and 'in Milliways' which should make this highly convenient. Bar, can you recommend me some materials?"

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Bar can do that!

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Awesome. Edie will do research, then.

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He'll check too. Since it's sort of his niece.

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A lot of the research is vague and it's not all perfectly consistent, but there is a general consensus that being literally the only child around probably isn't a good idea. And it would probably better if Milliways were a little higher-traffic than it's been lately for at least some of any given childhood. But having large numbers of children around probably isn't necessary. Especially since the kid will be half-elf.

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He asks the Singularity people if any families might want to live here.

 

 

There are no takers. The Fëanorians are not popular and everyone recently died and is super freaked out.

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Not really surprising, that.
"So...we encourage them to give her siblings, I guess. Or we import people from their Earth, or something."

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"Encouraging people to have children is - really iffy -"

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"I mean, yeah, but she's a me, and--I think I have an okay grasp on how she's different from me--frankly it would be less like applying pressure and more like giving her an excuse. On her end, anyway, I grant that I'm not sure how it would work with her husband."

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"Okay, fair."

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Any thoughts on how her husband would feel about all this? she asks her fiance.

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Uh, I doubt he objects in principle to having children absurdly close together by Elf standards but absurdly close together by Elf standards is, like, ten Years apart?

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Well, we can talk to both of them about it. In a non-pressury way.

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Yeah. But 'your child will probably end up messed up' is kind of pressure anyway so it'd be good to have a backup plan in hand -

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Yeah. We could ask my sister if she'd be interested in parenting, she's not fundamentally opposed to the concept and kids with single parents don't actually end up messed up because of it--human kids, anyway.

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Elves'd be weirded out but I guess they'd get over themselves.

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Humans and Elves are sort of inherently weird to each other until we get used to it.

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I'd expect aliens to be a lot weirder, really.

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Yeah, on a cosmic scale you're astronomically implausibly human-like.

I wonder if it's like the names thing.

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Might be. And the - commonality of humans, too -

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That seems--less weird, for some reason? Having the exact same thing crop up in a lot of places--well, it's more obviously not a coincidence. Things that're more similar and not coincidences are less weird than things that're less similar and plausibly coincidences.

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You wouldn't expect independently evolved life to land on human even if there were reasons it usually landed on humanoid -

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I've studied genetics, and I've looked at Bar's selection of genetics research for a wide variety of human worlds. If this is in any way a coincidence I'll eat my wings.

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So what is it -

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I don't actually know. "This particular explanation makes no sense whatsoever" doesn't really tell you what the real explanation is. My best guess is--some kind of overarching--meta-causality or something--making universes more the same, if they were infinite I might guess that it was that if you have literally infinite universes then of course some of them are going to turn out exactly the same, and Milliways could just be choosing from suspiciously similar universes--but if it was that, I'd expect names to stop being bizarrely prophetic in Abbadon now that it's no longer being selected for that--I mean, we can't say for sure that it won't, but it seems unlikely--

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- so something keeping worlds in line - 

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Yeah, although how strongly I couldn't begin to guess.

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Well that's - terrifying.

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I mean, it can't be too strong, or there'd be more evidence of it in what I've read...

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There's not much of it?

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I mean, like--it's all the kind of stuff that would seem like a coincidence if there wasn't so much of it? Instead of something that looks like it pushes back if you push on it.

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That's good. Since, you know, we're gonna push on it.

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Yes we are.

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So between you and Maitimo I've actually been curious for a while now if really, really great smiles run in your family.

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I'm pretty sure he practices his in front of the mirror.

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Whereas you probably come by it naturally on account of not giving a fuck about most people.

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Something like that.

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Either way, I'm not complaining. Have I mentioned lately you're beautiful? It comes particularly to mind when you smile like that.

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You're beautiful too.

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I love you.

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Love you.

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She kisses him happily for a few minutes, but then, Okay, I possibly and you have some people to talk to, but then after that I'm allll yours for a Milliways-time-fuckery-modulated span of time.

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Yes let's get that talking-to-people out of the way.

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Emily first or our alts, do you think?

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Emily first, she might have some other ideas we can present our alts with -

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Yeah, maybe.

Emily?

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Yeah?

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We've been discussing the implications of my alt's impending motherhood. Namely, the lack of other children. Multiple options have been proposed, and you came up. How do you feel about parenting in the short instead of long view?

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The answer is not automatically no. I'll have to think about it. We're going to open the door at least to grab the last Silmaril and Idaia's one friend, right, maybe she'll know someone else who might be interested in having kids.

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There's an idea. She relays all this to her fiance.

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Oooh, sounds good. Or has one already, I am really not okay with encouraging people to have kids they wouldn't otherwise -

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I think she was thinking more like people who wanted kids anyway but were waiting until a better point or didn't have enough money to support a family and we'd be cutting out obstacles, not introducing incentives.

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Okay. I trust you on what works for humans. 

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It'd be really great if we had a human Maitimo or something to work with but I'll do.

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Kiss. You'll do splendidly. A human Maitimo'd just be weird.

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Kiss. I try. Let's go talk to our alts.

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So they go to do that!

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Edie knocks on the door. "Here to talk about the baby!" she calls.

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We should let them in.

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Yeah.

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You could just tell them they can over osanwe, we don't have to stop kissing, they're our alts, they'll understand.

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You can come in!

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Edie opens the door and giggles a little at the pair of them. "Hi, you two. I was talking to Maitimo about the baby and we ended up doing some research--it's on humans, so I don't know how much it'll apply to a half-elf, but last I heard your plan was 'anything a child of either species would need,' so."

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"Yep, definitely."

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"And one thing it looks like human children need is nonzero other children around."

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"Oh."

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"We have come up with options. If Idaia or Imliss knew anyone who wanted kids and would respond positively to an invitation to move to Milliways and up the schedule, that'd be the most Elf-palatable one from what I've seen. Option two is that my twin takes up single parenthood, which does not harm human children, and option three is a repeat of the current options. And we have time to come up with more ideas, this was just what we gathered on the first pass."

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He hugs his wife.

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She hugs back. It'll be fine. You were talking about abducting a preschool when we first found out, remember? None of the options on the table are as bad as that.

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I mean, that's still totally an option.

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I'm pretty sure we can do better. I'm going to be fine. Artemis is going to be fine.

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Yeah. But -

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We're going to be fine. We're going to be fine. Nothing like what happened to you or I is ever going to touch our little girl and we're in another universe where Fate can't touch us.

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You had better be right.

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Yeah.

You promised me a happy ending and I trust you.

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Squeeze.

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Mhm.

"You can create embryos with arbitrary DNA sources, right?" she asks her alt.

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"Yyyyyes but especially under the circumstances I'm not going to offer anyone a baby fathered by Dead Historical Figure of their choice."

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"Uh, okay, that wasn't what I was thinking at all--ask Circle if he thinks the people from Singularity are going to make it a problem to offer lesbians the opportunity to have children who were biologically both of theirs, was what I was thinking--or if anyone would make it a problem to offer people in polyamorous relationships the opportunity to have children with more than two parents, although you'd have to ask Imliss if she actually knows anyone that would be useful for because I don't."

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"Oh, that's actually a really good idea."

She relays this to Circle.

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Oooh, I can imagine that being popular.

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Can you prevent the Singularity technical people from being rude to any gay people?

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I don't really know. It seems to be a fairly deep-rooted thing.

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Yeah, my hopes lie more in the direction of 'convince them to avoid the people and/or the topic' rather than 'convince them that the behavior itself is becoming.'

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That I bet can be achieved.

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Oh, good.

If we find any polyamorous people to take us up on that offer is that going to be a problem with your dad, Tyelcormo told me what happened to your grandmother.

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I don't think he'd say anything. 

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Okay, thanks.

"Circle says he's pretty sure he can keep the Singularity people from harassing anyone for being gay."

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"Congratulations, people, on being probably persuadable to suck slightly less than you were going to."

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She snorts. "More to the point, congratulations gay people on being less difficult to persuade to move here."

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"Does Singularity even have any - it's not an available concept -"

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"...I'm not sure I understand the question?"

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"...like, it would surprise me if there were people in Singularity who identified as 'gay' compared to just 'not good at marriage' or 'doomed to a forbidden love' or whatever you like, because 'gay' is not a thing."

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"In Valinor I discovered there wasn't a word for 'bisexual,' in Quenya, just assorted pejoratives for people attracted to the same gender at all. What's sane non-homophobic Quenya for bisexual?"

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He translates. "We don't have the same categories either but the mapping's at least closer."

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"Yeah, different cultures having different arbitrary categorizations makes sense, as opposed to having zero words for any relevant concepts that aren't slurs. Anyway, I think the plan was to recruit from our ex-Arda Earth, not Singularity, for gay people, so whether the Singularity people conceptualize them as 'gay' or not is less important than that they don't harass them over it."

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"That should be doable."

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"Although it could conceivably be funny if they described someone as 'bad at marriage' to their face who was married to someone of the same gender."

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"HIlarious, but let's aim for 'not' all the same."

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"Agreed. Have I ever mentioned I'm really glad your Arda's not horribly homophobic, because I am."

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"It is kind of convenient!"

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"And given the other dynamics in play it would be much more annoying for Edie to want to punch people for being nasty to you about it!"

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"Yes, I really really prefer Edie not want to punch anyone!"

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"Lost cause, darling, but I'm good at not acting on the impulse."

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"Who's been punchable?"

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She ticks off her fingers. "The Valar, the Singularity Valar, the Ozymandias Valar, the Mirror Valar, Ozymandias Elu Thingol, Ozymandias hella other people, a ton of people I met before your brother ever summoned me..."

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"You haven't met the vast majority of these people!"

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"I haven't met any of the Melkors either but them I want to tear their throats out with my bare hands and/or teeth."

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"If only that were an efficient way of being rid of them."

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"My rage is vast and irrational," she says, kissing him on the cheek.

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"Let's get the Erus, too."

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"As long as we either evacuate the universes first or confirm that the Erus aren't fundamentally supporting them in some way that would cause catastrophic failure once they're dead, sure."

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"I will acknowledge the necessity of that step but it takes some fun out of my vengeance fantasies."

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"Oh, for fantasy purposes we can just assume that Erus aren't important for anything in particular."

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"Was your 'tear Melkor apart by teeth' actual planning?

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"Don't I wish," she sighs.

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"I mean, maybe we'll figure out some Vala-killing substance and you can make it as part of your body because that makes it indestructible. But claws'd be likelier than teeth, if we go that route."

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"Almost as good. Don't tempt me, love, you'll make me all disappointed if it doesn't happen."

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"There are four hundred million of 'em, bet you can take one apart with claws if you want."

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"Mmm. I look forward to it." She hugs him.

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"Me too!"

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She kisses him on the cheek. "So," she addresses her alt, "can you think of anyone off the top of your head we should be making the offer to, or should we just ask Imliss?"

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"Um, a few--Daphne would know more than me, though."

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"I think we're grabbing her pretty soon."

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"I figured the offer was going to be made on the same trip, inasmuch as that's possible."

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"Is it possible?"

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"...Might or might not be. Problem is that we don't want the Milliways door open to Ozymandias for too long Ozymandias-time--there's no ongoing Morgothing to worry about but there's only so long we can control it uncontested..."

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"Yeah, makes sense."

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"So regardless of if we make a second trip specifically for recruitment, if there's anyone we can make the offer to on the first pass, it makes sense to do that rather than not."

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"Sounds good."

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So we should definitely talk to Imliss in the near future but we've talked to everyone we were going to.

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Maybe it can wait a little longer.

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All yours, for the moment.

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Oh good.

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Although we should probably go back to our own room before doing anything about it.

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He leads the way.

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And miscellaneous species features can be enjoyed.

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Meanwhile Imliss comes down the stairs.

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"Hi!!!"

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"Hi.

I've been thinking about your alts, a lot."

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He pats the couch next to him. "Yeah. They are very attention-drawing."

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She sits down beside him. "At one point when I was talking to Matt the possibility came up that at some point we'd be able to do the--forking retrieval thing--for non-Space-Elves and he said he didn't want a copy of him from before Angband retrieved because he just wanted to stop existing altogether--so the Singularity Maitimo who'd been through Angband probably felt the same way--but the retrieved version was glad of it, so mine probably would if we did--

I specifically and explicitly revoke consent for future versions of myself to deny consent for this version of myself to exist. If anything happens such that I die and straight-up resurrecting me is infeasible, like if anything happened such that I wanted to be dead, you and any of the others have absolute consent to resurrect me from this point--or before, if that's necessary for some reason. I expect to update this periodically."

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Hug. 

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She leans into him, tears prickling her eyes. "I miss him. He's--right here--and I miss him--and he's going to die--and you're so much like him, you're more like him than he is, but you don't know me, you don't remember me, I'm not your little sister, and there are so many things I want to say to him but I can't because I can't bear for him to hear them from what he thinks is a puppet of Sauron and he thinks we're dead and I--I just want him to be okay again, I know I can't have that but I want it so much it hurts--even if I could bring my parents back tomorrow they'd never get to meet him whole, I'll never ever have my whole family unbroken--I want to rationalize my way into being able to resurrect an okay version of him from before Angband so much so I can't because any ethical reasoning I use will be biased but it hurts so much but I'm not suffering a fraction of what any of them suffered, it's so selfish to be worried about how I feel about this--"

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Hug. "We might figure it out. Somehow. Somewhere in the multiverse there might be something -"

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"Like what."

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"Magic therapy, a problem you need to have been through Angband and then murdered hundreds of thousands of people to be equipped to solve, I don't know -"

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"I don't--want him to have to be alive if he doesn't want to--I just don't want to lose him--"

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Hug.

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"Remember when he said not to let him at an 'annihilate all life in the multiverse' button? Don't let me at a 'destroy an entire universe's iteration of your species by rewinding time back to Formenos' button."

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"I will ensure responsible custody of all buttons of unspeakable power."

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"What would you do if you woke up and someone told you it was thirty thousand years later and you were a rescue fork of yourself from--a universe-adjusted version of Ozymandias's history? I--I just gave a very good reason for why I shouldn't be trying to deal with this ethical problem, but--"

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"Depends on a lot of things. The people he killed, mostly - what they'd want -"

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"I'm not sure trying to ask them is under any circumstances a good idea."

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"Agreed."

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"I'm not even sure to what extent it makes sense to hold them responsible for what happened, given fucking Fate and the Doom."

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"I think I prefer believing my choices led me into horrible atrocities to believing it was all just fated and I was - puppetted the whole way."

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"I would too if it weren't for the confounding factor of suddenly all this influence from extradimensional situations and free-willed people--if you don't have fate-confounding factors running around it's easier to change your decisions than fate, but if you do then it's easier to take advantage of them than to rearrange your decision-making algorithms. 'I was railroaded into this and it's still happening' is worse than 'it's all my fault but I can change' is worse than 'I was railroaded into this but now it's over.' That's just me, though."

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"We've got literal chip data with what the Doom did to my alts, I guess I should probably find a way of coming to grips with that. Anyway. I kill hundreds of thousands of people, I could have - I don't know, I could have at least ordered mine not to follow me-"

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"Could you have? Would the Oath not have prevented it?"

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"...depends, I think - anyway, that's important, that's a big piece of - making the fork okay with existing under those circumstances -"

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"Okay.

I need to tell your me to spend more time with you, I--there are so many levels on which I'm not going to try to replace Matt but--I love him a lot and she should--have more of an opportunity to have the good parts of what I've had."

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"I don't know how close things brush to replacing Matt but I think it'd make him happy if you had - a source of the things he was at one point able to offer you."

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"Noted."

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Hug. "What was flat Arda Tirion like?"

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"Compared to what? I've never seen a Space Arda Tirion."

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"I'm not sure there are any cities we've both seen. Just - what did you notice about it."

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"I don't know if this will mean the same thing to you as it did to me, but--it was beautiful. I was--so impressed, everyone was so skilled, took the time to make things look nice--I was so happy living among people who it mattered to live in beautiful places, we weren't in Tirion very long but Formenos was the same--and I loved the lectures, and that I had the opportunity to do as much good as introducing the printing press was--and--I was so glad to have a family again, people who would never betray me--the way they did in my hometown--"

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Hug. "How'd you reverse engineer the printing press, had you used one before -"

Permalink Mark Unread

 

"Uh, I already told you Kilaiuossa hadn't invented electricity, right, they were still in common use."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Yes, but I didn't get the impression they were, like, household -"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Well, no, but--right, I probably haven't mentioned--my parents taught at the university."

Permalink Mark Unread

"That'd do it. The university had a printing press?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Yeah--still does, I guess, if it's only been six months in the past thirty thousand years..."

Permalink Mark Unread

"So you knew exactly what you were building, that's useful."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Well, it was a little challenging to adapt it to Quenya."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Oh, I remember my father trying to puzzle that out."

Permalink Mark Unread

"It's peculiar that the writing's the same whether or not he invents it."

Permalink Mark Unread

"We should, like, list all the mysteries in that category - why do the names match, why do elements of the history match even after there've been divergences, why do normal and Flat Ardas have the same languages..."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Why is it that your parents are always the same gender but mine aren't..."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Elves can pick the genders of their children - back when I was born it mattered, my parents deliberately had a boy -"

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"But Idaia and I are always girls...so far, anyway..."

Permalink Mark Unread

"...yeah, no idea there."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Which is why it goes on the mystery list."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Bar, are there lots of books written about Milliways?'

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A few.

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"Are any of them particularly informative?"

Permalink Mark Unread

They tend towards the memoir and the observational study when not outright fictionalized or speculative. There is a sort of ethnography I like very well, admittedly largely because I was invited to expound on my unique mixology practices for its author.

Permalink Mark Unread

"Huh. But nothing related to what we were talking about?"

Permalink Mark Unread

Nothing that strikes me as especially salient.

Permalink Mark Unread

"Okay. Thank you anyway."

Permalink Mark Unread

You're welcome.

Permalink Mark Unread

"Well, some mysteries are good to keep us entertained."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Honestly, if I want entertainment separate from my work I'm more likely to go for something a little more passive. I'm kind of saving all my 'figuring out how things work from far too little information' energy for dreamshaping."

Permalink Mark Unread

"How's that going?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Well, thankfully Bar's booklending capabilities mean I don't have to reinvent the wheel every time I want to learn something I know can be done, but it doesn't help that in terms of stamina I'm still nowhere near where I was when I died."

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"That just grows over time?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"No, with practice."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Do songs help?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"It's not just stamina, it's also--strength--they help to a point, and if I could do something but I would have collapsed after they can help me not collapse, but there's only so much they help. They don't make me more able to create more powerful things than they'd make me able to lift heavier objects, does that make sense?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"I think so, yeah. And therefore they don't much speed up the practice curve either?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Not really, no. On the bright side, Idaia and I got our memories back in dreams, and to a greater level of fidelity than we had when we died."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Oooh, useful. - there's got to be some way of having specific dreams on purpose -"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Hypnotism, maybe?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"You should look into options for that before we open the door to Ozymandias again -"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Yeah, that's a good idea. Although how we'd find a hypnotherapist on such short notice I'm really not sure."

Permalink Mark Unread

"At least some books. Or there might be better solutions."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Maybe Genetically Psychic Idaia can do something."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Oh, I bet it'd mean a lot to her if you ask."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Yeah, although I should probably give her at least a little more time to decompress first."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Sounds good."

Permalink Mark Unread

"It's a plan, then.

 

It's hard to remember sometimes that you're not him."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I'm not really sure how alts work but it sounds like I might be pretty much him when you two met."

Permalink Mark Unread

"That's not what I meant."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I'm not sure what you mean."

Permalink Mark Unread

 

"You don't remember me. And he's. Still. He's not--he's still the way he is."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Yeah."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I wish I could figure out how to convince him this was real. I know it probably wouldn't help, but--if he's going to die I want him to die knowing we're alive, that we're going to be okay, that I love him and I'm going to miss him so much but he--he was an overwhelming net positive in my life--"

Permalink Mark Unread

"I think that'd mean a lot to him." Hug.

Permalink Mark Unread

Hug. "Yeah. But--if he thinks I'm Sauron--I don't know that I want to tell him if that won't result in him knowing it, instead of just thinking that was Sauron's latest way of fucking with him."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I want to say 'if we actually help him die, he'll know' but - of course, not exactly -"

Permalink Mark Unread

"I want him to know before he dies. I want him to look me in the eyes at least once and see me and not a hallucination. I want to have at least one conversation with my brother in the rest of eternity that he knows he's having with me, I don't--think that's too much to ask--"

Permalink Mark Unread

Hug.

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Yeah okay she's just going to cry on him for a while.

Permalink Mark Unread

That's totally okay.

Permalink Mark Unread

That's good. At one point she gets up to get napkins from Bar to blow her nose on so she doesn't get snot as well as tears on his clothing and starts crying again.

Permalink Mark Unread

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Eventually she peters off and stops.

"You know what would have been nice?" she mutters. "Dealing with this while I still had a body that wasn't dealing with sixteen-year-old hormonal shit."

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Hug. "If we find another version of your universe we can wait to break the news to the Imliss until she's 20?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"I'm not sure that doesn't imply waiting to reunite her sister with her husband until she's twenty and am--mostly okay--I just sometimes start thinking about that and get really upset, I am not actually really upset the overwhelming majority of the time, and I don't think Tyelcormo could say as much when he thought Idaia was still dead."

Permalink Mark Unread

Nod.

Permalink Mark Unread

"So. Good thought, but. The tradeoff's probably not worth it."

Permalink Mark Unread

"We can discuss it with involved parties when it comes up, but telling Tyelcormo that Idaia's alive but that it'll be better for her to wait a few years would, if true, work."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I'm not at all sure that it would--not if we were at least sixteen. I mean, certainly remind her that she doesn't have Orome's birth control anymore, but other than that--

And I'm not sure it would do me all that much good, anyway, knowing what happened to him is awful but thinking they're all dead isn't really better."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Okay."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Honestly I think a much better avenue for helping other Imlisses--I mean, other mes who are Imlisses instead of Emilies or whatever--is getting her a therapist."

Permalink Mark Unread

"We can get you one of those."

Permalink Mark Unread

"At some point, yeah."

Permalink Mark Unread

"When we open your door again."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Are there any plans for how to keep control of the door long enough?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Not yet."

Permalink Mark Unread

 

"Okay. I hope someone comes up with something."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I mean, we definitely can do it, it's mostly a question of how much fuss we're willing to cause."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Yeah, I--don't have much input there. If someone wanted advice on how to deal with someone I happened to know I could do that but I'm just--not that attached to that society."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Seems like Earths are a recurring pattern, we should probably have a plan for operating within them."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I'll probably like Earths better that don't represent 'everyone and everything you ever loved in this world save your sister is dead and forgotten millenia hence'."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Yeah. ...not all Earths are former Ardas but I wonder if all Ardas turn into Earths."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Your Arda already has one."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Yep. And that doesn't make sense either."

Permalink Mark Unread

"It really doesn't. And it got its Revelation at the same time as Cam's and Idaia's and my alts Earth."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Yeah - that's the oddest part, it seems like it has to be a Cam but it isn't -"

Permalink Mark Unread

"...Hm. Did you try conjuring for 'alt of Cam' or for 'Campbell Mark Swan from this universe'?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Tried for Cam and for his parents."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I guess it could still be something like--the weird mix-up of me and Idaia, if they were a naturally occurring daeva who didn't have parents, and talked a summoner into it."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Yep, but the question is how to reach them, if so -"

Permalink Mark Unread

"I have no idea. And if it's the case who they're mixed with is a relevant question..."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Yeah, if Cam comes in evil I want that person very very very quarantined from the multiverse project."

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"Probably an evil Cam wouldn't have done Revelation anonymously if at all."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Hmm, maybe - Cam, do you think -"

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Cam looks up from the napkins Bar's been stacking up in response to his attempts to feel out the nature of magic-in-general. "- therefore I am? What?"

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"We have circled back again to trying to figure out Abaddon's Revelation - and why they acted exactly like you did if they're not a you - Imliss was thinking that it could be a blend, like that world apparently has Imliss/Idaia blends -"

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"I don't know who I'd be blended with, I'm an only child and whatnot. And that would be creepy but that obviously has no bearing on whether it can happen... I don't think the procedure for anonymous demystification of summoning is that hard to stumble on if you know what you're doing and want to do it..."

Permalink Mark Unread

"But at the same time, after centuries of secrecy - same source material -"

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"Parallel worlds are weird even when they are allowed to lean on exact copies of people, I'm not sure it's that much more far-fetched for it to happen without. And pre-Revelation few books were written on summoning to choose from."

Permalink Mark Unread

Nod. "...anyway I then said to Imliss that if you come in evil I want those ones very very far from the multiverse project."

Permalink Mark Unread

 

"I'm not sure how you could tell, since you can't go by 'has or has not killed a few million people' or anything."

Permalink Mark Unread

 

"You could go by how many he saved."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Oh, that hardly seems fair, what if we find me when I'm twelve."

Permalink Mark Unread

"You're right, I have no idea how to distinguish evil twelve-year-old yous from good twelve-year-old yous. Perhaps this should give me reservations about giving twelve year old yous a sector of the multiverse to govern but they'd be so good at it -"

Permalink Mark Unread

"I was precocious like that."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Anyway, 'the mysterious force that also makes sure daeva and mutant and formerly-Arda Earths all have two world wars on the same dates' is probably a better explanation than any kind of alt."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Yep. Gotta have your world wars or can you even really call it an Earth?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Wonder what it is about the late 20th century that derails 'em from each other."

Permalink Mark Unread

"It might not always be that, we're probably not getting a totally random sample."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Probably not, yeah. Getting anywhere with the nature of magic -"

Permalink Mark Unread

"At that point you have to ask what random means. The alts thing is probably a confounding factor on multiple levels."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Magic is very weird but without interdimensional shenanigans is almost always limited to a single digit number of 'systems' of it per world, many things that can generically detect magic have peculiar levels of agreement on what does and does not constitute magic and for example mutants like New Edie are by most accountings Bar knows of not, this has some implications for how we can expect technically-not-magic to interact with magic..."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Huh. - Valar technically magic? What about the Elves we've been calling magic Elves -"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Bar doesn't know whether all possible things are technically magic, especially if none of them have ever visited, but I suspect Valar are technically magic and that so are magic Elves."

Permalink Mark Unread

"It would surprise me if they weren't, but on the other hand it would surprise me on the same level as the mutants not being magic surprises me, and that happened."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Does the distinction match 'demons can make it', where relevant -"

Permalink Mark Unread

"This is one of the interactions, yes, prediction is imperfect but I'd imagine it'd work that way based on what I've got so far."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Have you tried conjuring for mutants? That seems...potentially dangerous."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I mean, they wouldn't be people - and also, conjuring for them wouldn't do it, he could probably make Nechar too since he isn't himself inherently magic -"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Yeah, they wouldn't be people and that might interact with their powers somehow, but it does mean any early-enough embryo to get around the minds thing could be a mutant if desired."

Permalink Mark Unread

"What's the latest you can conjure a fetus and still have it develop into a normal mind later on?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"In humans, about six weeks along but it's only invariably safe before five."

Permalink Mark Unread

"That should probably be safe, then. I, um, talked to Lodestar, and the two of them both manifested as four-month-old fetuses.

And Edie nearly killed the parent who was carrying her by projecting incoherent fetus thoughts at them too hard, which is why I was concerned it might be a problem--if a telepathic basement-dweller could project--nothingness--at someone hard enough to damage them..."

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"...wait, what -"

Permalink Mark Unread

"To which part?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"...oh, by manifested several months along you mean manifested the powers, I was imagining they just showed up-"

Permalink Mark Unread

"No, I meant manifested the powers, the one who was carrying Emily ended up with a ton of washers and steel pennies stuck to their stomach, it was apparently adorable."

Permalink Mark Unread

"...they were each carrying one -"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Were you there when she said she had two dads because of weird mutant biology, I forget."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I failed to interpret that sufficiently literally."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Well, now you know better."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Indeed. Is that common with mutants..."

Permalink Mark Unread

"They didn't have time to do a lot of population statistics before everything went to hell, but they knew at least one other person besides their parents with that feature."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Huh. Was it a surprise to the poor parents -"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Yep."

Permalink Mark Unread

Shudder.

Permalink Mark Unread

"They dealt with it well."

Permalink Mark Unread

"That's good."

Permalink Mark Unread

 

"I mentioned it to the other Emily and she said she had been an accident too and now I'm wondering if my parents would have considered it worth mentioning if we were."

Permalink Mark Unread

"It's that common?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Kilaiuossa doesn't really have birth control."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Soon."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Well, probably."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Yeah, relatively speaking and everything."

Permalink Mark Unread

"And assuming thirty thousand years don't pass there in the next six months."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Yeah. It'd be - interesting - if that's what happened - suggest that worlds are running at random, rather than just 'some faster than others' -"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Yeah. I should probably actually check to see if I can open a door there."

Permalink Mark Unread

"If you can we could probably go in and build hospitals and so forth right now."

Permalink Mark Unread

"That would be good. Bar, is there any particular trick to getting a door one place instead of another?"

Permalink Mark Unread

Concentration, by and large, is all that is required if you can do it at all.

Permalink Mark Unread

"Okay."

So she goes to the door and concentrates and opens it and lets go of it again and staggers back when it opens into what seems to be someone's bedroom.

Permalink Mark Unread

"...wrong place?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"No! I just--I was expecting the marketplace where we got snaked, not--my bedroom in my parents' house in our hometown!"

Permalink Mark Unread

"I'm sorry. ...still there, though - wow -"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Mhm. I mean, it's only been six months, and we technically still owned the house, I'm sure there would have been arguing over who inherited it when we were presumed dead, it's not like we had living relatives..."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Okay. Let's go take over a world, it'll be good for morale. Where do you recommend we start?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"What country or what tactics?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"EIther one, you're the expert."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Kilaiuossa's the obvious choice for geographic reasons, and I can't think of anywhere else that has compensatory advantages...tactics wise..." and she outlines what she remembers about Kilaiuossari politics.

Permalink Mark Unread

"Cool! Are you okay holding your door while I go talk to them -"

Permalink Mark Unread

"We are nowhere near the capital do you have a plan for getting there faster than walking speed."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I was going to ask Cam for a shuttle, yes."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Okay, good. Um, I imagine negotiations could take a while but I don't really know how long--Bar, if I'm, like, sleeping in a cot and the cot is blocking the door open, will that fail to work in the way that non-person doorstops typically do?"

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It should work as long as, should the cot suddenly disappear and you sleep through this event, you would continue to hold the door open.

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"That should work, then." Imliss makes a mental note to arrange everything such that if the door pushes her out of the way she'll end up in Milliways and not the house if it comes down to it.

Permalink Mark Unread

"Cam what do you say we fix up a world, I feel like it'll be good for my mood."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I find myself in favor of this plan."

Permalink Mark Unread

"It's a good plan." She opens the door again.

Permalink Mark Unread

And into her dead parents' house. It's dusty. 

Permalink Mark Unread

Through they go. "Is there going to be enough corpus for machine translation?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Probably going to be sort of mediocre - how much help can Imliss be on that -"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Potentially lots except if the Milliways effect interferes."

Permalink Mark Unread

"What exactly do you want me to do, I'm not completely familiar with machine translation yet."

Permalink Mark Unread

"You'd feed it vocabulary and when it guesses on grammar you correct it."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Okay."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Computer'll need to know your alphabet."

Permalink Mark Unread

She will teach the computer her alphabet! It is mostly made up of little circles clustered different ways.

Permalink Mark Unread

And Cam will teach her to teach it other things and set it up with the corpus so she doesn't have to do all the work.

Permalink Mark Unread

She will do these things. "This is really cool."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Yup!"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Do you need me to be done before you go?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"No, by the time it wants you to identify fruit and specific sorts of clouds we should be good to talk to people."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Okay." She keeps working on it and at some point it will reach that point.

Permalink Mark Unread

"All set?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Translationwise, sure, do we have a plan?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"We have ten years of generalized plans, one of the things I'm curious about is how they actually work. I am thinking "notify the government that we are here and that we came from another planet, of which there are lots, and that we'd like to have cultural exchange and trade and learn from each other, talk each country into giving us a couple square miles of farmland or something for an embassy, make it a very nice very dense city and announce that anyone is welcome to come hang out in the embassy, then lay down infrastructure and hospitals for cooperative governments -"

Permalink Mark Unread

"This is going to be quite the investment of time for Imliss and Idaia."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Yep, and we won't usually have a couple local experts but we will be able to leave a team of people."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Suppose once we know more locals we can get them doing shifts."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Yep!"

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Wag.

Permalink Mark Unread

"I'm trying not to make the plans lean too hard on finding and winning over lots of competent locals very quickly because I won't always be doing it personally but it's so much fun!"

Permalink Mark Unread

"You're adorable."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I wouldn't try to be emperor of the multiverse if it didn't sound like the most fulfilling job imaginable."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Anyway, last minute suggestions or comments on shuttle design so I don't spook people?" Cam asks Imliss.

Permalink Mark Unread

"Nah. People will assume you're a dreamshaper and dreamshapers do all kinds of crazy stuff."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Okay. Shall we?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Yes!!!!"

Permalink Mark Unread

So Cam makes a shiny little shuttle and in they go.

Permalink Mark Unread

And off they go. "Thank you for doing this. You are the main reason we can actually help these worlds, you know."

Permalink Mark Unread

"...I grant you that Edie might be less enthusiastic."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I was a little annoyed with Tyelcormo for seducing my source of infrastructure. Then I realized that was silly. ...I would say 'then I realized I should just seduce my own' but my crush on you was firmly established by then."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I'm glad you like me for things other than my usefulness as a willingly portable source of infrastructure."

Permalink Mark Unread

"It's that and the tail."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I picked the color myself! I cannot take credit for the design."

Permalink Mark Unread

"The tail-swishes are all you, I'm sure of it."

Permalink Mark Unread

"How do you know they aren't autonomic and come with the model of tail?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Because you have been known to use them deceptively at Governor, that's how."

Permalink Mark Unread

"You caught me. Entirely me-originated tail swishing."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Now, the desire to straighten out the entire multiverse into immortal paradises, that bit might be a reflex installed with the wings?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Memetic virus encoded in the overture of Atriama!"

Permalink Mark Unread

"That would explain how the rest of us caught it!" Is this shuttle big enough for kissing.

Permalink Mark Unread

It is both big enough and autopiloted enough!

Permalink Mark Unread

Oh, good. Cam is kissed.

Permalink Mark Unread

Oh good!

Permalink Mark Unread

"I love you."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I love you too." Kiss.

Permalink Mark Unread

And eventual arrival at the capital!

Permalink Mark Unread

The capital is a pretty big city, for a world at this technology level. They are not the only thing in the airspace. What looks like a pink translucent dragon swoops lazily in the distance; a trio of enormous moths flutter around each other a little below them; things less plausibly airborn than that make their way through the air with no apparent motive force.

Permalink Mark Unread

Dreamshaping is a pretty neat magic system. Too bad you have to be from here. 

They land.

Permalink Mark Unread

And they emerge. Hello otherworldly city.

Permalink Mark Unread

Hello random people you will mostly be ignored except oh wait here's a traffic warden telling them to either move their vehicle or dismiss it.

Permalink Mark Unread

The computer will have to talk back to the traffic warden. "It is not the kind of vehicle you are accustomed to and cannot be dismissed. Where should we move it to?"

Permalink Mark Unread

The traffic cop points out some public parking areas.

(He thinks these people are crazy but it's not like he doesn't deal with crazy people all the time. At least these ones are being reasonable about it.)

Permalink Mark Unread

Shuttle to public parking areas. Walk palacewards. 

Permalink Mark Unread

The palace is unusually pretty for a human palace. It also has guards. The guards don't particularly appear to be human.

Permalink Mark Unread

That's interesting. If they're dreamshaped Cam probably can't make them. " - are they dreamshaped?"

Permalink Mark Unread

...are they?

Permalink Mark Unread

Yep, totally.

Permalink Mark Unread

"Looks like."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Tempted to do something dramatic and wait for an invitation in, but dreamshaping makes it at least a little harder to impressively be a demon at first glance."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Being able to produce things on-demand might be convincing?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Probably. Question is, who do we convince?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Yeah, it sort of doesn't work with a nonparticipatory audience, huh..."

Permalink Mark Unread

He asks the dreamshaped guards if they can have an audience with someone.

Permalink Mark Unread

The dreamshaped guards turn their faces towards him but have no other reaction.

Permalink Mark Unread

Maybe if they loiter there'll be non-dreamshaped guards.

Permalink Mark Unread

Not really, no. Differently-shaped dreamshaped guards come out at one point, at which the first ones dissolve into smoke and disappear, but no non-dreamshaped guards show up.

People enter and leave occasionally, though. The ones coming in enunciate their names clearly to the guards, who pause for a few seconds before letting them pass.

Permalink Mark Unread

Copying the names is probably a terrible idea. After a while he does stop a person and ask how to get an audience.

Permalink Mark Unread

"...Uh, with who, for what?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"To demonstrate that we can make things we haven't dreamed and make them persistent, and anyone who might be interested."

Permalink Mark Unread

"...Really? How'd you do that? Anyway, this is the palace, it sounds like you want the University."

Permalink Mark Unread

"We'd like to make some agreements with your government."

Permalink Mark Unread

"...Like what."

Permalink Mark Unread

"We'd like to set up an embassy here, maybe build some hospitals."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Um, if you're representing a foreign power that's--a different thing--what country are you from?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"We're from a different world. There're other planets around other suns..."

Permalink Mark Unread

"...Uh. Okay. Um, I can direct you to--someone--but you wouldn't start off at the palace--if I give you an address can you find your way there--"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Yes, that works fine."

Permalink Mark Unread

He gives them an address, floor number and office number.

Permalink Mark Unread

"Thank you!" And to Cam, "if we did dramatic descents from the sky in ships half a mile across no one would foist us off to minor bureaucrats but on the other hand sometimes there'll be a reason to not go public so I think the foisting's better."

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"And think what a windfall for the minor bureaucrats if you decide they're great and should be non-minor bureaucrats in the forthcoming new order."

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"That too! We're like - does your world have legends of annoyingly powerful people for whom you do a minor favor and then they grant you wishes, or you minorly inconvenience them and they curse you forever -"

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"Well, it did, but they were called 'fairies', so then after I did my thing... 'Fey' used to be a synonym but now sort of retains the original mythological flavor."

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"I think the origin for ours was bored Maiar. Anyway let's do the first part of that but not the second."

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Wag wag "Yes let's."

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"Can you find us a way to the guy's office from the address?"

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"Yes but it's probably less hassle to ask for directions."

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Can directions be found?

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Yep. It's pretty nearby.

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They head on over.

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There is a minor government official in the office!

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"Hi! I'm Maitimo, this is Cam, we were sent here by Chazan Zorris Menan, Cam can make persistent things and things he didn't dream and we need to convincingly demonstrate this to someone."

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"I see. Did you have any particular demonstrations in mind?"

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"It seems like it might be more convincing if you name things."

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"Mother-of-pearl hair comb with precisely forty tines and silver-fill etchings of a darish bird."

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"What's a darish..." He makes a demonic darish bird, looks at it, produces the comb.

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A darish bird is a fairly large animal with structural and coloration differences from a peacock but rather similar style. It's big enough that it's going to be a minor problem getting it out of the office.

"What's a..." she trails off and examines the comb.

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"I apologize for the bird, I would've made it mini if I'd know they were that big."

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She takes a knife out of her desk, chips a tiny discreet piece off the hair comb, examines both chip and comb closely, then gets up and walks around the desk. She examines the bird carefully, running her fingers through its feathers and feeling its pulse, then gets back up and sits back down.

"I am tentatively convinced. What do you intend to do with a convinced person?"

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"We were hoping your convincedness would be sufficient reason for someone with more authority to give us an audience. We would like to set up an embassy and perhaps build you hospitals and things."

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She nods, and her eyes flick to his ears and eyes and Cam's wings, and she says, "So are you from another star, or something stranger?"

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"Another star and something stranger but 'another star' is the part we're going to widely explain."

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"Fascinating. I hope you'll allow me to introduce you to my brother, he'll want to know all about how your magic works."

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"We'd be delighted to."

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"Wonderful. Now, this situation is highly unconventional, so we don't exactly have a standard set of procedures for it, but--how many of you are there here, do you have a good idea of what kinds of trade goods you're likely to want to display for most impressiveness, an embassy should be fairly straightforward, hospitals probably less so..."

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"You'll just be meeting the two of us for the time being, though we'll draw on more people when we know what specific expertise is needed. We're planning to ask for some empty land for the embassy and have that serve as a demonstration of what we have to trade you, since a lot of it relies on infrastructure you don't yet have - Cam, do you want to show her, like, a computer -"

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He has his along. It can display its current progress in translating the local language.

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"Literally only two people is going to make it hard to convince anyone you're actually representatives of a foreign nation, and no one is going to give you land until they're pretty confident about that."

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"We debated descending very dramatically on your palace in a very obviously otherworldly spaceship, should we in fact do that?"

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"It would be very, very easy for that to not go how you want it to."

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"That's why we didn't do it that way to start with. It'll be very inconvenient to have a hundred people standing around just to make it clear we're important, can you think of a different solution?"

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"Probably, but it's difficult with as little information as I currently have. How does your magic work?"

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"Cam can make arbitrary material objects and is also indestructible. He is from a society about - seven hundred to a thousand years more technologically advanced than yours. It is possible to magically pull people like Cam from his world to mine; it is not possible to magically pull them here. In my world, this is traditionally done with great caution, because with sufficient knowledge of science and technology someone who can make arbitrary objects can blow up the whole world very trivially. My society recently developed a very efficient way of travelling between worlds and decided to go meet all of our neighbors; we're going to have portals from the embassy to our home world in a few years, but we're not setting them up immediately for security reasons. My world is - a thousand to fifteen hundred years more technologically advanced than yours, but we're not humans so slightly less of the knowledge transfers."

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"And he is human?"

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"In both of our worlds of origin you can turn into the sort of magical being that Cam is if you die. That is also not true here."

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"Pity. The tail is awfully charming."

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"Humans can in fact get add-ons like this but need to be very sure they want to keep them."

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"I'll pass. What's your country like?"

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"I am the crown prince of the Noldor, one of several nations of Elves. We number about five million, as a species we live forever, and on our homeworld there is no scarcity of any kind and we spend most of our time making artwork and music. When we discovered there were other worlds we were very excited at the chance to do something useful. Another planet known to us has humans so we're familiar with the species; other aliens known to us include orcs and Dwarves and Maiar, some of whom will also eventually want to meet you."

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"Tell me more about the Noldor."

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"What do you have in mind? We're very good neighbors, haven't been in a war since prehistory. We occupy the equatorial continent on our home planet, my grandfather has been our ruler for the last ten thousand years, we do a lot of work on computer chips, which I can explain at length to your engineers..."

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"I would like enough information on your government that I have a fighting chance of convincing my superiors it exists."

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"Cam, do you want to print out our legal code on fancy looseleaf?"

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"You don't want it spiral-bound or on stone tablets or anything?" Voilá.

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"It'd be a lot of stone tablets - maybe I can work up a condensed version - anyway, this help?"

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"Very much, yes. Do you have relevant standard ambassadorial procedures? Obviously not anything that applies perfectly or you wouldn't be asking for my help like this but something I could at least cannibalize?"

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"Yes, but Elves being immortal it involves a solid three months of dinners and theatre. Our first contact procedures are more informal in case we encounter governments we can't countenance."

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"Are both of those in this stack?"

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"Nah, that's the legal code, our procedural documents would - take up more paper than this building has space for. Cam can print them for you if you'd like, though."

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"That would be lovely, thank you."

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"How do I pick out the bit that doesn't take up more space than the building...?"

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"Why don't we look at the computer translations of the department of State support team protocols, that title last year, and the contact notes we worked on last month - see if they translate well enough to be handing out -"

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Translate! (Imliss's vocab prompts adjust to reflect this need.) Make!

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"Thank you. I'll probably be able to figure something out from this."

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"We appreciate it. If we really need an entourage to get anywhere I'll go fetch one, they are just urgently occupied with a world that has more problems than yours."

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"It's not a matter of consequence, mind, but of plausibility. If you have enough of a crisis going on elsewhere not to be able to spare more than two people, being able to spare the Crown Prince seems less likely. And there are going to be people who'd rather you had waited until your crisis was dealt with enough to be more, mm, respectful."

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"Would they still feel that way if everyone currently on your planet could very well live to old age and die before that particular crisis is put away?"

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"Plausibly not. But the immortality is a harder thing to swallow than the 'extreme foreigners' part."

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"We could have a welcome gift of scale models of Tirion over the last several thousand years but that only settles the age of the civilization. We can act as appalled by mortality as we were when we first heard about it?"

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"The former is unlikely to be considered proof by anyone who can conceive of being creative enough to invent those out of whole cloth. The latter is likely to offend."

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"I"d offer to claim not to be a crown prince and to be sixty or something but it seems damaging to start out with an actual lie just to avoid being assumed dishonest."

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"I could do an indestructibility demo, that's more demonstrable than immortality."

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"I don't think you ought to lie, I thing you ought to not bank on your immortality being believed prior to you legitimacy as a representative of a foreign power. The 'only two of you' issue is--a constraint better worked around when you understand it, not an implacable obstacle that necessitates subverting."

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"Understood."

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"It'll help when my brother looks at your magic. He's--not well liked, but certainly well respected, in his field."

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"How should we arrange that?"

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"I'm going to go see him after work. You can come with me if you want."

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"Will do."

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"Excellent. Once you've got relevant persons convinced of your validity, but before you have an embassy and hospitals, do you have an idea of how you want or anticipate conversations happening?"

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"...keep in mind that the embassy and hospitals will only take an hour or two. And I'd like to meet as many people as possible, in particular people who might be interested in working at the embassies."

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"I meant 'between then and getting land for the embassy and permission for the hospitals,' not 'while these things were under construction.' Meeting large numbers of people is--doable, but you probably shouldn't tell them why you're here in large numbers before you're officially acknowledged; it would make it look like you were a conman trying to get random people to believe you rather than someone trying to go through official channels."

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"Someone suggested we go to the University, will that work?"

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"Context?"

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"We explained that Cam could make things he hadn't dreamed and things which stuck around indefinitely."

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"The University is in fact a good place to go with an unprecedented magical discovery. In this context I recommend waiting for my brother to be able to vouch for you; whoever suggested that probably assumed that you had pre-existing standing in the academic community if you were actually making discoveries like that."

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"All right."

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"Now, I've been skimming these, and I have some suggestions--" and they can talk politics with insight and competence.

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This person totally merits a promotion! And at the end of the day they can go meet her brother.

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"Hello," he says, "who's this?"

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"Maitimo, Cam, this is my twin brother Kayizane Kalen Zalech. Kayizane, these are Maitimo and Cam. They have unprecedented magic."

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"We're from another star. Cam can make things permanently and they don't have to be things he's dreamed."

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"Fascinating. How does it work?"

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"It does not admit of much conceptual breakdown. Comes with being the species I am."

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"Most things admit far more of a conceptual breakdown than people are willing to bother with, although I allow that in many cases the required tools are simply not available."

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"Can't make persistently magical things, can't make anything smarter than a snail, can't make things in motion, range is something like the distance to your star from here, there's a volume per unit time limit that is very large."

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"How large is 'very large'? How like the distance to the sun?"

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"I don't actually know how far it is to your sun, the place I'm from is very far away and has two suns. About seven hundred thousand cubic this -" he gestures at about a meter cube, "in a second which is this long - one second."

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"Hmm..." He takes a small notepad out of his sleeve and scribbles on it. "And the distance limit?"

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"Honestly can't give you any more precision than I already did."

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"Mm. Can you?" he asks Cam.

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Cam looks it up, produces a meter of string - "That's a meter long, a thousand of it would be a kilometer, I can make things up to two hundred and eighty million kilometers away from me, technically slightly farther if I start within range and grow the object away from me."

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"Thank you." He scribbles some more. "Can you expand on 'not smarter than a snail'?"

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"If I make a snail, it will behave normally for a snail. If I make a rabbit, it will be alive, but it will not behave normally for a rabbit; it will have trouble moving around, reacting to stimuli in the way rabbit should, learning things, etcetera. If I make a human, same deal. This is usually summarized as 'can't make minds'."

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"Do you have any idea why not?"

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"I do not have any idea why not."

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"Any other ostentatiously arbitrary features?"

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"No antimatter - that being a sort of thing that violently mutually annihilates with any stuff that touches it - no vacuum, I need at least a little bit of an idea of what I'm making but it can be a kind of bird I've never heard of where I'm going off the name as your sister demonstrated earlier."

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He glances at her.

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"I mentioned a darish bird and then there was a braindead one draped across the floor of my office!"

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He laughs.

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"Anyway, our eventual plan is to have portals connecting your world to other ones, but we didn't want to abandon you until then, the next few centuries include lots of developments that make human lives a lot nicer, so we're here to establish diplomatic or at least scientific contact."

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"Ah, I see. Very philanthropic of you."

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"Goes both ways, no one else has dreamshaping."

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"...Huh. I wonder what the difference is."

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"We would be delighted if you figured that out."

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"Some sort of biological difference between our species would be my first guess."

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"We have met other humans! They can't dreamshape."

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"That's stranger."

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"Yep."

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"Some biological difference still isn't completely out of the question, though."

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"It is definitely possible, yeah."

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He sighs. "It would be nice if magic were more--cooperative. Reducible. Scrabbling at straws, trying to find out how things work, and often as not the cause isn't part of the magic itself but some nonmagical influence--magic is the best thing in the world but sometimes it is frustrating beyond belief."

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"Cam is the director of my nation's department of trying to figure it all out somehow."

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"That's a good job to have."

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"And I really got the best for it."

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"Thank you. I have not gotten particularly far yet, it is not a tractable subject."

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"There are some specific magic systems I think you'd like, though. Maybe after we have been vouched for to everyone who will require a voucher you can compare notes."

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"Oh? That sounds lovely."

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"We have a catalogue. For later, though. What does the vetting process look like here?"

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"For what, specifically?"

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"Your sister thought that you could confirm authoritatively enough for skeptical onlookers that we are not human and have the powers we claim and so on."

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"Oh. Certainly. I have a laboratory, that would be most convenient on a variety of levels."

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"Perfect."

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"It's not far."

His laboratory is very stylistically different from any of the kinds either of them may be familiar with. It has fewer-but-not-none implements and more open space.

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He will ask about his research!

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He will expound on it in significant technical detail! Some of it is similar to what Imliss has been doing.

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"We're working on lifespan extension. It sounds like that will do a lot for people here."

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"Yes."

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"We'll figure it out."

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"Jarizana and I are still young, I'm not in a hurry."

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"But some people probably are, I take it."

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"Yes, but since I'm emotionally disconnected from most of the human race who isn't my sister I'm not the person for whom 'the anti-aging solution will come sooner rather than later' is an efficient form of reassurance? It would be different if my mother were still alive, I loved her too."

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"All right."

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"I am aware that other people are ethically equivalent to myself and my sister and act in ways which benefit them so I'm not sure that it matters that I mostly don't have emotional responses to their wellbeing or lack thereof. I function perfectly well as an ethical agent without needing an inherent morality.

It is lonely, sometimes. It would be nice if the pool of people I had genuine emotional responses to were larger. But being normal sounds exhausting."

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"I wasn't criticizing, promise, I have a brother who hates everyone."

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"I don't hate people. That sounds exhausting too. Your brother has my sympathy, to the extent that it's relevant."

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"I will pass it on and he will disregard it because you unfortunately qualify as a person."

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"That's fair."

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"Anyway, I have no magic powers so I will just sit here and observe."

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He requests several conjured items including an apple and a basement-dweller rat from Cam for testing purposes.

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Cam provides. The apple is a Granny Smith.

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Kanimir performs tests on it! And on the rat, and on the other objects. He records his results carefully.

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They are an apple and a demonic rat and so on!

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And accordingly he can soon pronounce them Definitely Not Dreamshaped, according to the very most comprehensive, modern, and legally-relevant tests! All this documentation he's been doing is liable to be useful for later vouching.

And then he would like to analyze the two of them magically, he promises it has no effects whatsoever on the analyzee.

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"I'm game."

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He does a thing! There are pretty lights. They swarm him.

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Such prettiness of lights.

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And the pretty lights are clearly providing some kind of feedback because he is jotting down notes very quickly and this is still going to take a while.

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"Sure, go ahead."

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Pretty lights! If Kayizane knew about Elves and prettiness he might wonder if they were Sufficiently Pretty but he does not. Instead, he takes notes.

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"What does that let you check?"

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"Miscellaneous biological features."

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"And what does it tell you?"

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"You have a great deal of difference from everyone I've ever tried this on before on a level too subtle for me to understand--Cam seems to be missing some chemical entirely, I can't tell which one--you have a piece of metal in your head..."

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"Yeah, that's my brain, we keep them on chips so we can be resurrected."

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"Fascinating. Can you do that for other species? Cam also has a piece of metal in his head, in a different location and differently shaped."

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"We have not figured out how to do it for humans yet, but we're working on it. Other piece of metal controls our computers."

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"Ah, I see."

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"Those ones are safe for humans, if you want one."

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"That sounds lovely."

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"Now?" inquires Cam.

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"Sure."

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Chip! Computer! "It's still working on your language so the tutorial might be weirdly phrased."

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He tilts his head. "It's not up to Jarizana's standards," he observes, "but it's intelligible. Thank you."

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"Once it's trained to react to your thoughts you could help the translator along, we've got one person on that but more's better."

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He starts going through the training bit. "Who?"

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Hey, Matt, can you ask Imliss how safe it is to mention her name to a Kayizane Kalen Zalech -

"Computers can learn just from the written works of your world, but it's slow, so we asked the first person we met from here to help."

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"Imliss, Circle's wondering whether it's safe to mention your name to a Kayizane Kalen Zalech-"

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"I have no idea who that is, can I have some context?"

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"Question is whether he might know who you are - person they met at the university -"

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"University in my hometown or in the capital?"

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Pause - "Capital."

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"That should be fine, then."

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He conveys this.

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"Jarizana doesn't think you're really fluent in a language until you can write poetry in it."

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"You'd like my father," he says to her, "he has both a gift for languages and an obsession with them."

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"That is a positive set of traits!"

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"I think so too!"

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"And it's good for a king to speak a lot of languages."

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"Definitely. It hasn't come up much but now that we've got means of contacting worlds it'll come up more, one imagines."

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"Almost certainly."

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"He was very excited about contact with new worlds, for mostly that reason."

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"Aww."

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"Are we certified aliens, or is there more to check?"

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"That's everything."

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"Thank you very much. I will endeavor to introduce you to more interesting aliens."

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"I look forward to it."

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"Where next?"

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"If I talk to some people this evening I should be able to get someone a few links up the chain to talk to you tomorrow morning."

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"Thanks so much."

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"You're very welcome. Do you have arrangements for the night?"

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"If it's not absurdly convenient for you to get us something we'll go hang out orbiting your planet."

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"I don't think I would describe it as absurdly so, no."

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"Then we'll do that. I assume if we strike up conversations with any of your neighbors that will somehow complicate your life?"

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"Oh, I suppose, but feel free to do it anyway."

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"Thank you. We'll be back here tomorrow morning, then. Want anything before we go?"

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"I think I'm good for the moment."

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"Thank you!"

 

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"You're quite welcome."

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"See you later."

And they can go reclaim their shuttle and set up in orbit.

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Cozy! "I am not in fact that tired."

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Coffee: appears, is swigged. "Me neither, fancy that."

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"I can think of fifty people who'd be deeply flattered to stand around making it apparent that I'm important enough to have fifty people standing around but I think I like this way better."

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"However flattered they'd be it would be painfully silly."

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"Exactly. And also fifty 'Prince Nelyafinwë are you sure about the unbound demon -' 'prince Nelyafinwë can you swear that if there were something up about the unbound demon you are not under any oaths that would prevent you from telling us about it' - also people'd probably come up with things for me to do all night." Kiss. "And that'd really be a shame."

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Kiss. "Since these things would not be 'the unbound demon'?"

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"Not even a little bit!"

 

They are back at the administrator's office the next morning.

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"I have meetings for you!"

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"I have been looking forward to them!"

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His meetings are with an anthropologist and a currently-unassigned ambassador.

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He is very pleased to meet them, he is Nelyafinwë Maitimo-his-people-do-naming-differently-here's-how.

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The anthropologist is delighted.

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Good! Oh, some other differences that have come up so far: Elves can't have children by accident and find the concept utterly horrifying (and have a solution to the problem, if the humans want it), Elves age slower and don't age past young adult and can be resurrected if they die, Elves sing a lot more and die if imprisoned for too long and require less sleep and cannot dreamshape and -

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Elves seem to have some really impressive advantages and some really obnoxious disadvantages! She is sure that there are a lot of people who will want the solution but there are a lot of people who won't. How much slower? How are they resurrected? Their names are different, does this have the following plausible implications? Does the slowed aging have the following plausible implications?

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Yep to most of the implications - they inherit patrilineally - though inheritance doesn't come up much - yep they don't do divorce or remarriage - takes a thousand two hundred years to reach young adulthood, full maturity's at twenty-five hundred - 

"We keep our brains written down in this complicated format I'd have to give a technology lecture for you to follow, and can have a new body made around a new copy of our brain and it works fine."

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...Wow. That is a really long time to grow up.

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"Some people find it extremely annoying."

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That's not really surprising. Gosh.

She asks more anthropological questions! And will tell him anthropological things about this world! At some point it occurs to her to ask how he came by the information he had before he met her.

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"This is the second planet of humans we've made contact with! The other ones don't have dreamshaping either and I hesitate to do anything that might qualify as representing them on their behalf but I will be sure to introduce you once it's convenient."

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That doesn't explain how he knew about the names but she supposes he probably got that out of Jarizana Kalen Zalech.

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"Talked to some people when we first landed, actually. I make a point of knowing peoples' names and it is in any event a natural first topic of conversation."

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Yes, that makes sense.

Anthropology!

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And presumably embassadorial things at some point?

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Yep! The ambassador is less of an adorable nerd than the anthropologist but he's still entirely pleased to be here.

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How difficult is it looking like it's going to be to get an embassy?

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Probably not too hard? Scale of days?

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He is impressed, and says so! Jarizana thought hospitals would be harder?

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Yes, definitely. Once they're recognized as representatives of a foreign country and given their stated requirements finding land for an embassy should be easy; putting up hospitals is way more complicated and likely to have politics attached.

Kilaiuossa is probably the easiest country in the world to get an embassy in right now, what with the Empress's Reforms.

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He would love to hear about those!

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...Okay, so there's this one cultural minority called the Bremri, and, uh, long story short there used to be a bunch of laws that persecuted them but then the then-Princess ascended to the throne and cut them out with a sword, basically, and now things are not that and policy is to err on the side of not doing anything like that to anyone else.

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He commends the Empress on what sounds like a very sensible policy even when not expecting powerful aliens.

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The Empress is very sensible! This is a large part of why she is Empress.

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How does Kilaiuossa do succession?

Permalink Mark Unread

When the current monarch announces the intent to retire or dies, members of the royal family who want to succeed them announce their intentions and gather supporters and make promises and the Council of Provinces elects one of them. If the monarch dies then their appointed Regent rules until the new monarch is elected. Every monarch has to have a Regent who stands in for them in the case of death or temporary incapacitation.

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"Sounds like a very reasonable system."

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He's glad he thinks so. How are monarchs selected in his country?

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"Well, when the Noldor were first offered the chance to come to Valinor, Finwë scouted it out, decided we'd have a better life there, and persuaded our people - one by one, our numbers were much fewer back then - to go with him. So Finwë was King. Being immortal, there was no hurry to settle the succession, but Finwë's favorite son was his firstborn - my father, he invented the printing press and a lot of things after that which you don't yet have, including the means to travel between the stars -"

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The ambassador has no concept of the sheer difference in technology level between "printing press" and "spaceship." He nods along.

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"So Finwë named my father his heir, and my father having no particular desire for the job comforted himself that this was irrelevant, all of us being immortal, and then I grew up to like the work quite a lot and they both decided I would succeed him when he felt like retiring. The last time we spoke of it he was waiting for me to settle down and raise a family first - Elves consider that a full-time job, you wouldn't want to do it once you were King."

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"Oh, I see. Being a monarch is a pretty stressful job."

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"It really is."

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"So your grandfather is still king?"

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No because of the war he is dead and my father discovered an interest in kinging after all if it meant going to war and we haven't brought Finwë back in Milliways because he might interfere. But the emperor of the multiverse is all mine. 

"I have yet to decide how to break it to him that I'm not really planning to settle down and marry. I don't expect he'll take it badly, but he might make me wait a century to be really sure."

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"How long does it take you to grow up again?"

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"Twenty-five hundred of your years. I am in no particular hurry to assume the crown but by then I think I would be chafing."

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"That seems reasonable."

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"I think he'll see it that way!"

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And then they can talk about ambassadorial things like trade and extradition and stuff.

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Yep! Having a lot of land for the embassy will help with the Elf fondness for pretty things; it's worth delaying getting the land if it makes getting a lot of it more feasible.

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How much is "a lot"?

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The size of one of those fields outside the city, say, if there's something like that undeveloped somewhere. Enough space their shuttles can land and they can have a garden, nothing like the size of a city so they don't seem unfriendly.

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That sounds reasonable. Does he have location requirements, because starting a construction project that size inside city limits would be complicated.

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Not at all! They can get anywhere on the planet within two hours.

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Convenient! It should still be somewhere relatively easy for people who cannot do that to get to, since humans can't. Or Kilaiuossari humans, anyway.

(He is blissfully ignorant of Idaia and Imliss's existence, let alone circumstances.)

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"If you'll let us build a train from the city we can't quite pull off 'anywhere in the world in an hour' but we can definitely do 'across the country in that'."

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"What's a train?"

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"The basic idea is that you lay down rails everywhere and then trolleys can go on them, classically powered by coal they cart along with them. Then we improved on the coal, then we improved on the rails, now it will just look like a bubble flying down a sleek metal line for no reason. We can give you the old version if you'd like something you can more easily reverse-engineer but they're not as safe and not as fast."

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"That I have no especial insight on, being neither an engineer nor in the department of transportation," he says, "but the concept in general seems likely to appeal."

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"Trains are great."

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"They sound very convenient."

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"There're - a lot of things like that. We can endeavor to be minimally disruptive."

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He nods, slowly.

"Assuming you're telling the truth on all counts, you're the most important thing to happen to this country in the Queen's reign."

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"With all due respect you are still underestimating this. But it's very nice to meet you."

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He laughs. "I imagine that no matter how momentous it is a case could still be fairly easily made that the formation of the country was more important to it," he offers.

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"I'll grant you that! Are there engineers we should talk trains with?"

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There are! He is not personally familiar with where they are but he can find someone who'll know.

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"Thank you."

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He finds someone who knows which of the engineers are in their workshops presently. The person can also show them where the relevant workshops are.

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"Thanks. Is there more to cover here, or should we go meet them?"

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There is some more to cover but plausibly the ambassador should talk to some other people first.

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"Yes, I can imagine. Sorry for making so much work for you."

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Not at all! It's fascinating work!

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Then they will wait for the ambassador to talk with the other people!

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The ambassador talks to people and then they can go see engineers.

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Good!

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The engineers have had the basic idea of Trains explained to them and would love to hear more!

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Would anyone want to provide a good home to a model train if he made one? Yes? Here is a model train! Isn't it cute and tiny. Installing trains is a little complicated because his matter creation ability is only so cooperative with the underlying terrain but they can totally make it work. Trains can go yea fast and hold yea much stuff. Here is the concept of the shipping container.

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The engineers are very excited about this! They need to be brought back on track a few times by a particularly stout one of them when they're at risk of flying off on tangents.

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They have a lot to cover!

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The engineers are all very excited! They also mostly defer to the stout one (Markess Irinha Zavon) when relevant. "When relevant" is usually when someone's about to hare off onto a not immediately important tangent, but also sometimes when he has a suggestion for a way this engineer or that's work would be relevant to some aspect of trains, or when they start arguing, or...

The phrase "herding cats" might be appropriate.

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He can imagine how his family would react to something like this. It'd be pretty similar.

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Engineers, right?

Eventually it is dinnertime and Markess suggests that everyone should really not forget to eat, again. There are protests. He mandates a dinner break. There is grumbling but general acquiescence.

Markess would like to know if they've had a chance to try Kilaiuossari food, yet, and if not if they would like to have dinner with Markess and his wife.

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They would be happy to try Kilaiurossi food!

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Excellent!

Markess's wife is a pretty woman with darker skin than most of the Kilaiuossari they've met so far. She has made food! It is delicious. She asks her husband and the foreigners intelligent questions about trains and the foreigners intelligent questions about politics and their country and so on.

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All of which he answers as if it were the year before the war started, no point in introducing complications.

 

Markess's wife is hiding something. He is not sure what and if it is something like 'poison' that seems interesting to know, so he does not press it.

Permalink Mark Unread

If it's poison, it's a slow-acting enough one that it doesn't make itself known immediately.

And then after dinner there is more excited questions from the engineers.

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Which they are happy to entertain. He does quietly observe to Cam in Quenya that Markess's wife is hiding something.

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"Any idea what?" Cam murmurs back.

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"No but she's better at it than her husband is - might not have been sure I was noticing anything off just her -"

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"Perhaps she intends to surprise us with cake."

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"Can't rule it out." Trains!

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Trains!

Eventually it is late enough for Markess to boss the other engineers into going to bed.

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"Should we expect to meet with you again tomorrow?"

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"Maybe. Why don't you come tomorrow and if anything else happens I'll tell you."

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"All right. Thank you for your time."

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"You're very welcome."

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Shuttle.

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"Nice people they have here."

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"Lovely. I'm slightly tempted to figure out what was up but they haven't actually been anything but adorably excited about trains."

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"Trains are cool! I think we should heavily favor trains in any situation where we get to do ground-up infrastructure, they're a less obvious tradeoff when there's lots of stuff already in place but great from a standing start."

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"If the multiverse is in fact infinite I think we should exclusively work in preindustrial places first anyway, we can do a lot more good and the magnitude of the complications we can accidentally invite is smaller."

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"Makes sense."

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"And if people do try to use train-granted advantages to go on a holy war it is fairly straightforward to take the trains away."

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Nod nod.

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And they are not poisoned at all! They go back the next morning.

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They have an audience with the Empress, if they want one!

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That sounds lovely.

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Markess's wife was totally not hiding poison.

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She was hiding that she was the empress. This explains a great deal.

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"I apologize for the deception," she says, smiling, "but I find I often get a better idea of a person's character when they don't know who they're talking to. It's why I never let them put my face on any coins."

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"Television might rob you of some of your fun but that seems a very sensible approach to me."

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"Television?"

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"Technology to make and distribute live to the entire population vivid moving pictures of ongoing events, so it's like they're watching them up close. It mostly gets used to distribute art, at least back home, but they do cover affairs of state."

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"Oh, I see. Yes, I could see that interfering."

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"The palace guards are interesting, how do they know peoples' names?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"The dreamshapers maintaining them receive sensory feedback and have access to a list of the names of those permitted within the palace grounds."

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"Ah. I am very impressed with your country and with everything I have heard about you."

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"A high compliment. I've heard good things about you and yours, too."

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"How can we be as helpful as possible here?"

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She has a list! Some of it is pending further discussion about what technology they have to give, but it's fairly comprehensive! Trains are on it!  Hospitals are on it! Infrastructure is on it! Sending Kilaiuossari engineers and other academics to Noldor universities to pick up as much of their advanced knowledge as possible so Kilaiuossa isn't dependent on a foreign power for all their stuff keeping running is on it!

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He will express tentative interest in that one - "our standard programs are a hundred twenty of your years long, we might need to develop human-paced ones..." The rest they can do right away!

Permalink Mark Unread

...Yes, that makes sense. Although she knows some people who would happily have done it anyway. In that case, it's probably best to get the infrastrucrure as ubiquitous as possible so that dreamshapers will be able to maintain it if technology fails.

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"Yes, and we can at least widely distribute blueprints and textbooks and spare parts."

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They can talk logistics, then. She has maps brought in and they can put their heads together about things like hospital placement and where they want their embassy and things like that!

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Oh excellent.

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Cooperating to Improve Everything is a much more fun form of politics than standing on formality and arguing with exquisite deftness that yes, this will benefit you too.

Also, would it be possible to get textbooks for other sciences besides the ones for infrastructure? Chemistry, physics, zoology, botany...(she makes a very slight stressed face at botany).

Permalink Mark Unread

Yep yep yep yep distributing textbooks is doable in every field though the machine translation is not yet fantastic.

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Excellent. Is there anything they can do to help with the machine translation?

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More people on it would help, actually, here's what they'd be doing.

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She will get some people on that.

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"Then we can probably get you big stacks of textbooks in a few days."

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"Wonderful," she says. "...Maye this will get the botanists to stop running around like headless chickens."

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"What's the story there?"

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"A little more than a year ago, Sarlassa Zavari Geressin, the most accomplished botanist in Kilaiuossa and possibly the world, died in an explosion at the university she was teaching at. Because her husband was a former Bremri radical who...no one ever proved did anything with explosives...the two of them were assumed to be culpable. And then their twin daughters disappeared under mysterious circumstances. The botanical community has been screeching conspiracy theories ever since," she sighs, rubbing her temples.

Permalink Mark Unread

"...ah. I'm not sure how much textbooks and foreign plant cuttings will help - demons can also be useful for forensics -"

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"Textbooks and foreign plant cuttings will at least distract them," she says, "although forensic help would also be useful."

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"Let us know if it's required."

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"By what threshold of requirement?"

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"The most useful thing that the demon who will also be building your infrastructure could be doing for your people!"

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She nods. "Probably not, then, or at least not until the infrastructure is up." And then more logistics?

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Sounds good.

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Logistics! And then he can have the marked-out embassy land and Cam can do embassy stuff with that while she sends out infrastructure-related orders.

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Cool. They have blueprints for the embassies laid out in advance. They have to do the excavation first, with machinery; it takes a few days while he tweaks the blueprints for the space they have. It's not much space, but with demons to do the building you can go dense with a city. Stunningly pretty sweeping two-hundred-story skyscrapers, and a spaceport lined with gardens. It is very very striking. At need a million people could live there (he would like to be able to absorb displaced persons) though more than half would be living underground.

Hopefully lots and lots of locals will dream about it.

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Well, a lot of locals are very very impressed with it.

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The translation is pretty good by now! The aliens can deliver textbooks and infrastructure: where to?

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This list of locations!

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Cam can go to listed locations! And deliver things!

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Things shall be installed! A lot of the locals are confused about the Things but the response is overall tentatively positive!

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Great! What does the Empress think is next?

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Well, this is clearly not going to be an international relationship with normal trade relations, but is there anything Kilaiuossa can do for the Noldor?

Permalink Mark Unread

They are excited you can dreamshape magic items, what has been demonstrated possible with that?

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Lots of things, does he want an offhand list of examples or to ask if any particular thing is on the list or for them to see if someone's made an exhaustive study?

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"Of particular interest would be things that do properly instantaneous communication, for a sense of 'instantaneous' that you might not have instruments precise enough to measure while the speaker and listener are on the same planet."

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They can do instantaneous-to-them communication but have no way of knowing if it breaks lightspeed.

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"So that's one thing we'd be interested in checking."

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A volunteer can be found.

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They can make some more precise timepieces so they don't even need to go to space to test it.

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The volunteer is impressed and also wants to know if anyone has ever warned him that he has a weapons-grade smile.

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"This is a pretty satisfying job." And do they have magic FTL -

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Yep! The volunteer has magic ansibles.

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Cool. "We should check if these work across dimensions."

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"Milliways confounds all the experiments, at least potentially, but yes."

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"It really does, doesn't it." They ask the dreamshaper to hold them for another few hours. "How best to check this -"

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"Assuming Idaia and Imliss can both consistently get doors here it's safe to have one of them here with the door closed, I think, need to check with Bar. Can rope in some Singularity Elves, same deal, see if we can go world to world with the door closed."

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"Won't time be stopped in one or the other world -"

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"Depends how the ansibles work. They're not nearly as good to us if we can't simultaneously maintain bar access anyway."

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"Fair, okay." And they shuttle back on over to confirm with Bar that it's safe to have Imliss here with the door closed -

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Results are as always not guaranteed but if Idaia can get doors to the place she will retain this ability.

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Hey, is Idaia free?

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Why?

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We're fixing up her home world and could use her help on something.

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He reports this.

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"I think I want to help."

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"Okay. Should I tell him we're on our way -"

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"Yeah, I think so.

Carry me? This is--I want to do it but I expect it to--involve a lot of emotional energy."

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"Yeah, of course." Down they go.

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"Hi! Thank you for helping, Idaia - you should know, the Empress asked for our help looking into what happened to your parents -"

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"What?"

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"Apparently a lot of people have been up in arms for an investigation. I said we'd be happy to help them piece together what happened, after the infrastructure and hospitals - we put in infrastructure and hospitals -"

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"Oh.

Oh.

Oh."

She is definitely trembling.

"People care?"

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"Quite a lot of them, apparently. I neglected to mention we knew where you were, but they were up in arms about your disappearance too."

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Are those tears? Yep, definitely. She hugs her husband tighter. "What do I do to help?"

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"Just check that you can get a door, so that we can send Imliss through sufficiently sure we can grab her again."

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"Mmkay."

She opens the door. It leads into Imliss's room. She stares at it for a few seconds before saying, "Imliss, could you--"

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"Yeah." She takes the door.

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I want to show you my room, she tells her husband, and I want to grab some of my things we didn't pack up when we left. Old toys to give Artemis, for example.

Permalink Mark Unread

Hug. Sounds good.

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The door from Milliways is Imliss's closet door, not the door between her room and the rest of the house, so getting to Idaia's room isn't hard.

It's dusty, after six unattended months. Her bookshelves and closet look like someone packed things from them in a hurry, but the rest of the room was left as though she intended to come back any minute.

She looks around and half-collapses on him, sobbing.

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Hugs.

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Eventually she calms down. I'm glad I get to show you this. It's--I grew up here. I loved this place.

She looks around, and picks up a basket that has dolls in it. Some of them are soft and made of fabric and some of them are wood. She picks out a particularly floppy ragdoll and stares at it.

This is Kalekki. She was my favorite. I want Artemis to have her. I want to tell her the stories I made up about the adventures we would go on when I was little.

Permalink Mark Unread

Okay. Sounds good. Hug.

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I love you so much. I'm so glad I'm carrying your child. I'm so glad she's going to get more than ever dreamed of giving her of my homeland.

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Yeah, this is good, we should've thought to check sooner.

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Yeah.

She grabs a couple of outfits and a few books and puts them in the basket with the dolls, and says, I think this is everything I need for now. Let's go play doorstop for Imliss.

Permalink Mark Unread

Sounds good.

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So they go do that.

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And then they need Singularity volunteers to do the same thing, and -?

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The ansibles: work.

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How convenient!

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They can head back to the capital to tell the Empress that dreamshaped communication devices do something very useful and will likely be very much in demand.

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Oh, good. Have they checked if it's a feature of dreamshaping in general or that particular dreamshaper?

Permalink Mark Unread

They've just checked the one person; they can check a batch if there're lots of people with things that might do it.

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There are.

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Cool! They'll check a batch at everyone's convenience, then.

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Everyone's convenience can be in a few hours or tomorrow depending on how large a batch he wants.

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"We'll wait for tomorrow, the testing process is a bit involved."

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In that case she will pull together a fairly large group of dreamshapers who have communication magic.

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And they'll go run the same test again!

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Some of the communication methods pass the test; some do not.

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He returns to the empress with a list. "These are the ones that can be used to communicate directly with us no matter where we are. What are the main barriers to holding onto a dreamshaped object indefinitely, the need for sleep?"

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It is actually possible to maintain a dreamshaped object while unconscious/asleep, the problem is that no one has infinite stamina and very few people have so much that holding an object spends energy slower than they recoup it.

Permalink Mark Unread

That makes sense. "We're working on a technological solution to the distance problem, so it hopefully won't be relevant for too long. ...you can also contact us at any range by writing Cam, if an emergency arises."

Permalink Mark Unread

She does not especially anticipate an emergency but then, you generally don't, that's definitely good to know.

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"Neighborly relations all peaceful? We're not willing to hand out future weaponry - war gets very, very terrible - but we should probably figure out the best posture to deter wars if it's more complicated than 'if you get along with us we'll give you shiny new stuff.'" 

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"Yes," she says, "it does. Relations aren't such that that would be on my top ten list of possible imminent disasters but yes, such a policy would likely be wise."

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"Other kinds of disaster we can do more about. War - I don't want to throw our weight around or end up supplanting local dispute resolution mechanisms, but - when you die you just actually stop existing, doing that ever seems very close to unconscionable."

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"People die anyway," she says, "so some things are worth dying sooner for. Not that most premises for wars qualify."

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"We're working on that. Death, I mean."

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"As in fighting old age or as in resurrection?"

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"Both."

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"I'm glad to hear it."

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"And you'll be the first to hear of it once we've got it."

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"I'm glad to hear it," she says, smiling. "It's probably a good thing you landed in Kilauiossa, first. Most of our neighbors would probably be more difficult to work with. Of course, I could be biased."

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"You seem much much easier to work with than we were anticipating as typical, so if so we are biased also."

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"I expected that making myself easy to work with would pay off, and I was right," she says, a little smugly.

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"Well, we're going to try to make nice things even for people who didn't have the good sense to be born under a good queen, but - yes, being easy to work with helps quite a lot."

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"To be fair, my predecessor was terrible and many of my subjects have been alive longer than I've been in power," the empress points out, "but yes, of course."

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"I am actually kind of surprised government works when everyone dies so quickly. You'd be leaving a lot to chance."

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"Governments generally don't last as long as yours has when everyone dies so quickly," she admits.

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"Well. We're working on it. ...we'll probably have it a while before we can scale it, I don't know if making good rulers immortal is a good way to distribute it when we've got very little of it but it seems like a plausible one..."

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"Making people immortal who are more likely to be able to help with the scaling part," she suggests.

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"Think dreamshapers can do resurrection if you live long enough?"

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"I don't see why not."

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"That would be pretty excellent."

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"It would," she says. "Of course, then we'd need a system set up to handle people returning like that, and somewhere to put them--population density is going to start being an issue very quickly if people stop dying--"

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"This planet's population could grow quite a lot with modernity - planets this size stably host ten or twelve billion - but then we'd have to get you to the stars, yes."

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"Ten or twelve billion is good news," she says. "It's going to take us quite some time to get there with only immortality and a rate of resurrection we'd be capable of dealing with as a society."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I imagine so, yes. And you're not that far off star-travelling, although without demons living anywhere other than Earth is a lot more hassle than just visiting there. Cam can fix up some other planet in your star system."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Perhaps he should talk to some astronomers about which one."

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"That sounds lovely. - did you still want that forensic conjuration done -"

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"Yes, please."

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"Do you know what you're looking for in particular?"

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"I would like to know what exactly caused the explosion, and I would like to know what happened to the daughters."

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"I actually think I have some insight into the second; some twin human girls stumbled on us a while ago. I don't know how common human twins are but vanished ones can't be common. The explosion we can freeze-frame -"

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"...How long have you been here?"

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"Two days before we met you but if I'm right about the girls being the same ones, Cam'll trace them to their inexplicable consumption by a giant snake and then they will just as inexplicably land in Valinor."

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"...Okay.

So do you just not want to tell me for certain, yet, because you know how our naming rules work and I told you the botanist's name and I have noticed that you have a thing about names, I'm not sure I believe you don't know the names of your human twins."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I just don't know what to make of the giant snake thing and haven't actually had Cam trace out their story yet."

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She looks like she's considering saying something and deciding against it. "Alright. So. Freeze-framing."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I can't make magic things, snake might be magic." But with that caveat, forensics ahoy.

Permalink Mark Unread

So what happened with the university is that Erichen Eizar Lessnerai was in fact fucking around with explosives, but not in a context of trying to blow up anything that shouldn't be blown up; a neighbor had asked for help dealing with a particularly recalcitrant tree stump and he had figured a small shaped charge would be effective. Someone walked in on him and explosives and freaked out and went and got someone else who also freaked out. Eventually a whole bunch of people were there, freaking out, and Sarlassa was there trying to calm people down and Erichen was not being especially conciliatory because he wasn't doing anything wrong and they were being ridiculous, and then one of the freaking out people knocked something over and Erichen was the only person who realized exactly how bad that was in time. He tackled his wife to the floor, trying to act as a human shield for her. It didn't do enough good.

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"....ah."

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She sighs. "Very plausibly not a conspiracy, at least."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Doesn't look especially like one. And the kids - you might want to go forward by days, I don't know precisely when the snake intervened -"

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The kids were devastated when they found out. There was a lot of crying. They leave town.

They stop being in Kilaiuossa.

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Narrowing down -

Permalink Mark Unread

Yep, that's Valinor.

Permalink Mark Unread

"The snake is as much a mystery to us as to you."

Permalink Mark Unread

"If you thought you could get anywhere on figuring it out from the bones I could probably find out where they buried it."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Cam, are the bones magic -"

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Yep.

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"Then that sounds potentially helpful."

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She will get someone on that, then.

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"Were there any other snake-attributed disappearances, or disappearances that in light of this could be snake-attributed -"

Permalink Mark Unread

"I don't think so, but I don't keep track of every missing persons case in the country. I'll get someone on that, too."

Permalink Mark Unread

"We likely don't yet have the means to retrieve them from wherever they've landed - no one else landed on us - but we're working on something that'll give us that capability."

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"That would, of course, be best."

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"Best would be figuring out the snakes, but that would be nice. Most places one could land are - less good places to land than Valinor."

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She nods somberly. "By best I meant--better than not."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Cam can check where they are, that just won't necessarily be sufficient to go there. Is there anything I should convey to your lost subjects -"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Tell them that their mother will be sorely missed by the academic community and it's perfectly understandable if they don't want to live here anymore but it would be nice if they could visit to reassure some botanists that they weren't kidnapped by some bizarre anti-botany conspiracy."

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"I will let them know. There's - a couple more things complicating the picture there, they're not secret but they're so laughably implausible they make the snake seem entirely reasonable."

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"Things that make the snake seem laughably plausible? You mean like people with unheard-of magic dropping on us from the stars to give us free things, drastically improve quality of life, and eventually end death?"

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"Things that seem implausible even given that! Though I might be biased, I grew up with summoning."

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"Try me."

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"So summoning draws demons, angels, and fairies from the 'daeva realms', the worlds attached to ours - so to speak, we don't understand how it works at all, really - into our world, usually under specific conditions. You summon them and make an offer, if they accept it they do what you asked, you pay them, you send them home. 

Paying angels is easy - anything complicated, botanicals, electronics - and fairies is even easier - most consumer products. Paying demons is difficult."

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"I can imagine," she murmurs.

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"The - aboveboard - ways of doing it involve media recommendations, commissions for pieces of music or art, or live performances of same. This only gets you so far. And eventually someone hit on the idea that if there were daeva worlds and us maybe there were more than those, and they figured out a way to summon demons from other worlds. Demons who you could trade all our world's media, because they'd heard of none of it, demons who you could trade technology if they were from a world that was not as advanced as ours.

A while ago I needed a fleet of starships. I did not have anything on hand with which to pay for such a thing. I summoned a demon from a world that had not yet mastered travel faster than light, and I offered to trade her the knowledge for the ships, and she accepted - well, asked me to grab her twin sister as well, actually, her twin sister was an angel and they didn't get to see each other very often -"

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The empress is missing a lot of context here but is following along well enough.

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"You guys could trade them in dreamshaped magic items but summoning doesn't work here. Anyway. A few weeks after that I was notified by the demon I had summoned that she had found that a random doorway on our starship, which was currently mid-leap in deep space, opened to a interdimensional bar called Milliways. Where she had met Cam, who was from the same dimension as her to start with but had been summoned to a different universe with a Valinor, and an Endorë, and alternate universe versions of all the people I knew including me."

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"We couldn't, dreamshaping doesn't do persistent magic items any more than it does persistent regular items," she corrects.

Permalink Mark Unread

"I bet temporary magic items would still have some appeal. Anyhow. We investigated Milliways. Its most salient features are that while you are in it, time stops in the dimension you left from, time does not pass consistently between its parts, it is ridiculously powerful magic, and it has access to information about an indescribably large number of worlds.

We decided to close the door and hang out in Milliways until we had invented solutions to every single pressing problem in our home universe. There are some sufficiently bad that they should not be allowed to go on for even a short time longer than needed. We're still in the middle of that. We've been there about ten years. Well, I have, I don't know how long it's been for anyone else. Milliways doesn't let you do directed interdimensional travel, and we're close to having it on our own but not quite there yet. The only way to use Milliways for transit is for the bar to happen to put down a door somewhere, or to have someone who is currently inside the bar and who is able to open the door to a given universe - usually you can only open it to your universe of origin, but some people have a few candidates for that."

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"A daeva could open the door to the world they were summoned from or the world they were summoned to, if they were on a summon?" she guesses.

Permalink Mark Unread

"Yep. So it turns out that some worlds are recurring themes. There are for examples hundreds of millions of me, and hundreds of millions of my world of origin, which is a problem because my world of origin has some serious issues that - later in the trajectory they all follow - end up being disastrous. There're also alternate universe versions of people who don't come from the same worlds. We discovered this when we met an alternate universe version of my younger brother. It was thirty-one thousand years later, in his world, than it is in mine, and everyone had died horribly and then eventually been resurrected. 

...well, the Elves had been resurrected, the humans were presumed to be just dead."

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"I'm sorry."

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"The alternate universe version of my brother was sorrier, because he'd married a human. Thirty-one thousand years earlier. He'd met her in Valinor, where she'd been stranded by a random snake accident, and they'd gotten the Valar to make her unaging and they'd gotten married and they'd spent a few contentment-filled decades tromping around Valinor before everything went to pieces. She and her sister - who were alternate universe versions of my demon and her angel sister - died in the subsequent mess and he spent thirty thousand years moping, which is a thing Elves do."

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"It was only a little more than a year ago."

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"You see why I hesitated to say "ah, yes, I know an Idaia and Imliss Zevari-Lessnari."

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She rubs her forehead. "Yes. But you said they're alive, earlier?"

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"They were born again, thirty thousand years later, in the same world where they'd died. We don't know why. They were forty years old when we found that world and subsequently found them. Idaia and the alternate universe version of my brother joyfully reunited and have only very reluctantly left their rooms since. And then we checked and learned it'd only been one of your years, here..."

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"...When you say she was forty, she wasn't psychologically forty, right, she was--herself--"

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"...they get the memories back in dreams and I was not totally satisfied with that but the alternate universe version of Idaia, who is two hundred fifty, was and we deferred to her."

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"That seems reasonable," she sighs. "I would have liked to meet them, to see if I could--figure anything out--but..."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Well, now you have as much information as freeze-framing can get you, but you're still welcome to talk to them if you'd like."

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"I would like that."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Should I borrow a dreamshaped communicator again or set up a time for an audience?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"I work better in person but if a communicator would be significantly more convenient I can compensate."

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"I very much doubt Imliss will mind. Idaia might prefer not to travel - she's also now expecting a child -"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Oh. I wouldn't have naively expected our species would be compatible that way.

Is she staying in the interdimensional bar?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Our species probably aren't - at least, there're none attested - the alternate universe version of me is a magic Elf, they look like us but are inexplicably magic. She is staying in the bar but considering raising the children here, as I understand it, because the bar does not have other children."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Yes, I was wondering. Would it be better to send you dreamshapers to work with you and academics who want to learn from you, who have or are going to have or want children?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"Depends how well you think you can screen them. A malicious person with access to Milliways could do a lot of damage and we are not clear what use of the bar constitutes misuse and will get us evicted, no one's ever tried to use it for mass improvement of the galaxy before. An arrangement in the town they lived in - that's where the door they can open is - and communications with the bar might be the best way to balance convenience and security."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Assuming she's willing to forgive them, I agree with you."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Can't speak to that. Might depend how they react to the news of what really happened."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I assume moving the door somewhere with less negative associations is infeasible?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"...could just build a rail line directly from the door to somewhere. But doors seem - stubborn - and as I said we don't know what uses of Milliways will not provoke its mysterious but active landlords."

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She nods. She sighs, again. She's been doing that a lot, lately. "Do you want me to identify some good candidates for the backup plan so you can meet them and filter, just in case?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"I would appreciate that very much."

Permalink Mark Unread

"I can think of a few people off the top of my head, when would it be good to start?"

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"You're lovely, you know that? Ah, any time."

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First person on her list was one of the successful communication experiment people.

Permalink Mark Unread

Cool! They want to hang out with Elves and possibly a hybrid kid?

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She is sort of indifferent to the idea of Elves as opposed to humans but is super excited by the idea of doing new and unprecedented science to magic with the philanthropic science people.

Permalink Mark Unread

And responsible and not likely to be subvertible by Midnight -

Permalink Mark Unread

Responsible like "can be entrusted to definitely not forget where she left things if given something important" maybe not, responsible like "will not abuse power" yes.

Probably subvertible if and only if she isn't warned about him.

Permalink Mark Unread

They will definitely do warnings if inviting anyone. He thanks her.

Permalink Mark Unread

He's welcome!

Next couple are a dreamshaper and a municipal planner who's really interested in what kinds of cities you end up with when you have populations in the billions.
(It's a marriage of convenience. They're friends who both wanted a child and were getting old enough that putting it off was starting to look less and less feasible and didn't have anyone better to do it with.)

Permalink Mark Unread

Have they seen the embassy -

Permalink Mark Unread

They have seen the embassy and the municipal planner could probably reverse-engineer something off it but it's much more useful to be able to study the principles from sources that know what they're doing.

Permalink Mark Unread

They don't have city planners immediately on hand but they could definitely ask the demons for whatever they needed.

Permalink Mark Unread

That works.

Also the dreamshaper wasn't in one of the successful communication experiments, but he has managed to get dreamshaping-healing, which is rare and difficult and almost certainly a prerequisite for resurrection.

Permalink Mark Unread

Ooooh. How does that work?

Permalink Mark Unread

It's really really hard to get dreamshaped magic items that have permanent effects on the world around them that were acheived solely by magic. Medical magic items that do things like cauterize or stitch wounds are fairly simple, and emergency first-aid items that temporarily heal wounds entirely likewise, but actually getting the tissues to knit together correctly in a way that sticks is really really hard.

Permalink Mark Unread

He's impressed it's possible. How is it done?

Permalink Mark Unread

It's the same principle as, like, telekinetically moving something, only on a much smaller scale?

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"That's really cool."

Permalink Mark Unread

"Yes. Yes it is."

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"And resurrection would work the same -"

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"I'm not sure. It depends on how you did it, probably, but in general probably?"

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"Cool."

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"It's hard to know when no one's ever gotten there."

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"Makes sense."

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He nods. "I'm glad your species has it, at least."

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"I am hopeful that soon it'll be widely available."

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"That would be nice," he agrees soberly.

Permalink Mark Unread

And when people are interviewed he asks Imliss and Idaia what their plans are. And, oh, the Empress would like to meet them.

Permalink Mark Unread

 

Idaia is really not sure that she is comfortable raising her kid in this town and teaching her that she could trust her neighbors, because, like, forgiveness aside it has been demonstrated that they are not sufficiently trustworthy. And she's not sure "you can't trust your neighbors" wouldn't be at least as damaging in the long run.

Permalink Mark Unread

Up to you.

Permalink Mark Unread

I want to do what's best for my daughter and I'm not sure what that is.

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Well, it's not something that makes you unhappy.

Permalink Mark Unread

 

I don't think I should raise her in that town, then.

Permalink Mark Unread

Okay. We'll put in a rail line.

Permalink Mark Unread

'Kay.

You said the Empress wants to meet us, are we supposed to come there, is there someone else to hold the door if so?

Permalink Mark Unread

You aren't supposed to do anything but if you'd like to we can find someone to hold the door and someone else to hang out in Milliways just in case.

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I'm not the most emotionally competent I've ever been, but I'm barely showing, as long as the trip isn't dangerous-to-the-baby levels of bumpy I'm fine with traveling.

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Shuttles aren't bumpy at all.

Permalink Mark Unread

Then I'm fine traveling. It'll probably do Tyelcormo'n me good to get a change of scenery.

Permalink Mark Unread

Sounds good. And Imliss?

 

Permalink Mark Unread

Probably yes, but I'll ask.

Pause.

Yes.

Permalink Mark Unread

He asks the Empress when would be convenient.

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The Empress's schedule sort of had a stroke and died when he showed up and started being magically philanthropic with them, she can make time pretty much whenever as long as she's given at least a day's notice.

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He tells Imliss and Idaia.

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Do you have an opinion on when to go? Idaia asks her husband.

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No. Should I?

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Nah, it's just I don't really either. Can you ask Imliss, she's out of earshot and I don't really wanna go looking for her right now.

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Imliss, want to meet the Empress, if so when -

Permalink Mark Unread

I'd probably have been really impressed and excited that that was even an option once upon a time. Um, not until there's someone else to hold the door, of course, but I don't see a lot of reason to put it off.

Permalink Mark Unread

He tells Circle this.

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He picks a time with the Empress and finds someone to hold the door and escorts them.

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He holds Idaia.

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And Idaia will snuggle her husband and read one of her old books and listen to the fetal heart monitor and occasionally run a hand down the gentle swell of her belly all the way there.

Permalink Mark Unread

He introduces them and leaves.

Permalink Mark Unread

 

"Hi, I should probably be more impressed that you're the Empress but then I was horribly traumatized and then married a prince and was traumatized some more," Idaia observes awkardly.

Permalink Mark Unread

"That's understandable," the empress agreed.

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"So I have been slightly filled in on things; do we need to do anything in particular to reassure botanists that we weren't kidnapped, or...?"

Permalink Mark Unread

"You don't need to do anything in particular, although if you wanted to loiter visibly for a little while that might prove helpful."

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"Okay. Thanks for giving a damn about our parents, even if only for practical reasons."

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This startles a brief laugh out of her. "Well. You're welcome."

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"Was that the only reason you wanted to talk to us, or...?"

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"I'm curious about you," she says. "You are or were my subjects, and the system which I administer failed you. And you're not unique in that respect, to my deep regret, but you are unique in many others."

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"This much is true."

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"And you married into their mysterious new benefactor's kingdom, as I recall politicians tend to care about things like that.'

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"Usually arrangements like this are less...straightforwardly mutually beneficial. I'm honestly not certain whether any of the usual rules apply. But yes," the empress said.

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"Sometimes I'm not sure things that aren't weird exist anymore," Idaia nods.

Permalink Mark Unread

Hug.

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"Weird isn't always bad! Milliways is weird. Alts are weird."

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More hug.

Permalink Mark Unread

And of a less depressing flavor, hooray.

The twins talk with the empress some more. Imliss's resurrection plans come up and the empress recommends her some people to work with on that, if she wants. Eventually the empress has a meeting with someone else and the twins leave.

Permalink Mark Unread

Was that what you were hoping for?

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I dunno if I was hoping for anything in particular but it was--good.

Permalink Mark Unread

Good.

Permalink Mark Unread

It's nice to be able to not resent my home country. I mean, my hometown, yes, I still have issues with. But when the empress herself tells me she's sorry my parents are dead, I can--not blame the whole country. And it's a load off, let me tell you.

Permalink Mark Unread

I bet.

Permalink Mark Unread

I get to come home, I have my husband back and my country back and I get to come home and we're going to have a baby and I'm so so happy I'm so glad I don't need to try to use words.

Permalink Mark Unread

I'm so glad.

Permalink Mark Unread

I love you so much. We're going to be such great parents.

Permalink Mark Unread

I am sure you will be fantastic.

Permalink Mark Unread

 

Also you.

Permalink Mark Unread

I'm scared of how fast they'll grow.

Permalink Mark Unread

That's--yeah. It'd be better if they grew up like an Elf.

I'm sure we can handle it.

Permalink Mark Unread

Yeah.

Permalink Mark Unread

Any child of ours would grow up this fast no matter when we had them. I mean, I guess not in Valinor, but I don't regret not raising our child in Valinor. It's--sort of weird having something we'd rather otherwise that's not--that wouldn't be different if I'd never--if we'd never been separated--

Permalink Mark Unread

Well, we were going to have them in Valinor originally.

Permalink Mark Unread

Yeah.

But Valinor has much less convenient timefuckery than Milliways and it wouldn't have felt like more time.

Permalink Mark Unread

I'm not sure. But I'm really glad you didn't land fifty Years sooner, so-

Permalink Mark Unread

Yeah, given what did happen having children in Valinor would have been a disaster.

She's going to be beautiful and amazing and the happiest, most loved child anywhere and it's kind of sad we won't get more of her childhood than we will but--it'll be amazing, every minute of it.

Permalink Mark Unread

Yeah. And, hey, we can go here and close the door until they've got immortality sorted so my family doesn't miss a thing. 

Permalink Mark Unread

 

We're sure we'll be able to get back in, after?

Permalink Mark Unread

I mean, we'd need Imliss to stay in, or someone else.

Permalink Mark Unread

I'm not sure I feel comfortable risking Imliss ending up several years older than me and I doubt she will be either but it's hard to say that's worse than having your family miss the baby's childhood.

Permalink Mark Unread

I mean, it's not risking anything exactly, she could decide how long she feels comfortable doing it and then open the door after that long.

Permalink Mark Unread

 

I am honestly not sure I trust her right now to open the door when she feels uncomfortable instead of being self-sacrificing about it.

Permalink Mark Unread

Really? Why not -

Permalink Mark Unread

 

Because she's decided to react to everything that happened to you guys by--raising her standards for various thresholds of suffering. Well. I say decided. She thinks I haven't noticed and I'm letting her because it helps her cope.

Permalink Mark Unread

That doesn't sound helpful at all.

Permalink Mark Unread

I'm not sure that she won't go into an awful spiral of self-loathing if she thinks that something she did made me unhappy. She--

She died first and I--didn't last long after that. It's. Hard. To get her not to blame herself for my dying.

Permalink Mark Unread

Uh, if you'd made it across you'd. Have died anyway. Everyone died. She does realize that?

Permalink Mark Unread

People blame themselves for other people dying when this shaves a handful of decades off their lives. She and I lost five hundred years. I'm not saying I agree with her, it's obviously not her fault, it's just that she has a boatload of different traumas rubbing each other the wrong way.

Permalink Mark Unread

Okay. So we don't close the door, it's fine.

Permalink Mark Unread

We could ask Circle to find someone trustworthy to be in Milliways and just have Imliss on this side of the door with us.

Permalink Mark Unread

That works too.

Permalink Mark Unread

Yeah. Snuggle. I am very much in favor of no one having to miss any of Artemis's childhood.

Permalink Mark Unread

As best as we can, yeah.

Permalink Mark Unread

Yeah.

Let's go ask Circle about it.

Permalink Mark Unread

Hey, do you have people cleared to hang out in Milliways?

 

"Says it's fine," he murmurs a minute later.

Permalink Mark Unread

Good. Squeeze. Of course, this way it'll be a while before I want to use the immortality thing. But that's no great hardship.

Permalink Mark Unread

Why does it change when you'll want it?

Permalink Mark Unread

I'm assuming it freezes my age? I mean, I won't want it for a few years regardless, but like, if it's a ring or something I need to hold onto it for a few years without losing it or wearing it if it's finished now.

Permalink Mark Unread

What age are you waiting for -

Permalink Mark Unread

Twenty-one. That's when I stopped last time, and I'd rather have as close to my old body back as I can.

Permalink Mark Unread

Makes sense. Circle said the Empress briefly considered being upset that you two were significantly underage.

Permalink Mark Unread

Well, if I were actually sixteen it would be super skeevy for someone your age to be sleeping with me, so it's hard to blame her.

Permalink Mark Unread

Yeah, I guess. You said you were fifty-three when you landed and I didn't think to - think -

Permalink Mark Unread

Fifty-three is fine, love, it's forty that would have been a problem.

Permalink Mark Unread

I was already several thousand of your years.

Permalink Mark Unread

I mean, yeah, but the point isn't absolute age difference, the point is whether I'm a consenting adult or not.

Permalink Mark Unread

Okay, fair. Squeeze. 

Permalink Mark Unread

Snuggle. On a happier note, I'm really looking forward to feeling the baby kick, it should be any day now.